Staize
08-19-2003, 04:49 PM
I have had a tmj problem for two and a half years now. I have two slipped disks, and have no choice but to have surgery. My doctor is very well educated and has done more joint surgeries than any other doctor in the WORLD!!! My surgery will be fat grafting. They will replace my disks with fat from my abdomen. This kind of surgery has been around no more than 10 years. My questions are.... Has anyone had this kind of surgery?
What are the after problems with any tmj surgery?
What are the after problems with any tmj surgery?
Sponsor
sunshine123
08-19-2003, 05:44 PM
Hi Staize: I don't know anything about that surgery, but I wanted to wish you good luck. Keep us posted. Sue
DianeTMJ
08-19-2003, 06:03 PM
Hi Staize-
I not had surgery, do not plan on it either but just wanted to let you know there will be others that will be able to talk with you about surgery.
I wish you luck though
Take care
Diane
I not had surgery, do not plan on it either but just wanted to let you know there will be others that will be able to talk with you about surgery.
I wish you luck though
Take care
Diane
Cymy Sue
08-19-2003, 06:07 PM
Hi Staize & Welcome,
I'm not sure if anyone here knows about this particular procedure. We have several members who have had other surgeries. I had auricular cartilage replacements in 92, they failed. I had a discectomy in 97 with no replacements. I was told at that time there was nothing autogenous that would hold up.
We've had another new member in the past few days to mention the same procedure and you 2 are the first to mention fat grafts. I asked her some questions about it, as I was very curious regarding what I was told 6 years ago and she has not answered. I'll bump the post up in case you may know some of the answers. I would be interested in knowing more about it. (The topic is titled "kaamom".)
Different members have had different procedures, some successes some not. Again, I don't believe anyone knows about this and I did some research and couldn't find anything about it.
If this helps, I did well with the cartilage replacements for 2 years. The surgery was not a hard surgery to get over and I was pain free for 2 years. Then the grafts failed and I was back in the same mess or worse. kaamom, the other member did say that fat grafts were suppose to work better than anything used before. I don't understand why there is no information about this procedure.
Maybe someone else who is interested has found some information that would be helpful to you.
Would you mind posting the Doctors name, that is within the guidelines. (We may not post web-sites.)
Cymy Sue
[This message has been edited by Cymy Sue (edited 08-19-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Cymy Sue (edited 08-19-2003).]
I'm not sure if anyone here knows about this particular procedure. We have several members who have had other surgeries. I had auricular cartilage replacements in 92, they failed. I had a discectomy in 97 with no replacements. I was told at that time there was nothing autogenous that would hold up.
We've had another new member in the past few days to mention the same procedure and you 2 are the first to mention fat grafts. I asked her some questions about it, as I was very curious regarding what I was told 6 years ago and she has not answered. I'll bump the post up in case you may know some of the answers. I would be interested in knowing more about it. (The topic is titled "kaamom".)
Different members have had different procedures, some successes some not. Again, I don't believe anyone knows about this and I did some research and couldn't find anything about it.
If this helps, I did well with the cartilage replacements for 2 years. The surgery was not a hard surgery to get over and I was pain free for 2 years. Then the grafts failed and I was back in the same mess or worse. kaamom, the other member did say that fat grafts were suppose to work better than anything used before. I don't understand why there is no information about this procedure.
Maybe someone else who is interested has found some information that would be helpful to you.
Would you mind posting the Doctors name, that is within the guidelines. (We may not post web-sites.)
Cymy Sue
[This message has been edited by Cymy Sue (edited 08-19-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Cymy Sue (edited 08-19-2003).]
cally22
08-19-2003, 08:27 PM
hi staize,
I have not had a discectomy with a replacement, but I have had a disectomy without one, and I can tell you that a year later I am still having problems. Though let me assure you they are not at the extent that they were at before my discectomy, and just because my surgery didn't go well doesn't mean your's will not.
One thing I experienced that I will warn you about is, this surgery is painful. Iw ish you all the good luck in the world.
cally22!!
I have not had a discectomy with a replacement, but I have had a disectomy without one, and I can tell you that a year later I am still having problems. Though let me assure you they are not at the extent that they were at before my discectomy, and just because my surgery didn't go well doesn't mean your's will not.
One thing I experienced that I will warn you about is, this surgery is painful. Iw ish you all the good luck in the world.
cally22!!
TiffanyAnn
08-19-2003, 09:35 PM
Hi Staize:
I have not had this surgery and I don't plan on allowing any surgery to be done to me either. I would suggest you think long and hard before allowing anyone to do surgery on your TMJ. Most of the people who post on this board who have had surgery are in far worse shape than they were before and then their surgeons tell them there is nothing more they can do for them after they have all their money and hope of course. And they leave them to suffer on their own. So, I would just ask that you think long and hard before allowing any surgery to be done on you. My left disc is displaced and I am going the splint route. Surgery has been suggested to me several times but I told them absolutely not under any circumstances. This is one time in my life when I am happy that I am stubborn and would not give in. The best of luck to you.
Tiffany
I have not had this surgery and I don't plan on allowing any surgery to be done to me either. I would suggest you think long and hard before allowing anyone to do surgery on your TMJ. Most of the people who post on this board who have had surgery are in far worse shape than they were before and then their surgeons tell them there is nothing more they can do for them after they have all their money and hope of course. And they leave them to suffer on their own. So, I would just ask that you think long and hard before allowing any surgery to be done on you. My left disc is displaced and I am going the splint route. Surgery has been suggested to me several times but I told them absolutely not under any circumstances. This is one time in my life when I am happy that I am stubborn and would not give in. The best of luck to you.
Tiffany
Staize
08-21-2003, 05:53 PM
Thank you to those who took your time to respond to my message! The reason you can't find much about it is b/c my doctor pretty much invented it. He has done it for over 7 years now, and has had not one problem nor has he had to do the surgery again. If any of you hear of anyone else talking about it, please let me know. Thanks again!
Cymy Sue
08-21-2003, 06:28 PM
Staize,
I'm glad you responded. I did continue to look and at one time, this was called demis, dermal, or demis fat grafts. Abdominal fat grafts have been used for many types of surgeries for quite some time, especially plastic surgery. It was included in with the other the autogenous type replacements and I was told about it.
I hope your Surgeon has made improvements in using autogenous material and improvements in these surgical techniques. You are certain that he uses fat grafts only and not some type of synthetic material along with it. I did read about a procedure using both.
I had failures with auricular cartilage and it caused me to have another surgery to have them out. I was told 6 years ago that nothing autogenous would hold up and a discectomy was the best option. I was told that the majority of autogenous replacements fail within 2 to 5 years.
I am still very interested in new techniques as I am living without disc. I am doing pretty well right now, but if at any time someone comes up with something that does work, properly functioning joints with disc would be better.
Would you mind posting his name. That is within the guidelines. (We may not post web-sites)
I don't think anyone else has heard of this and there may be others who would like to know.
Good Luck,
Cymy Sue
[This message has been edited by Cymy Sue (edited 08-21-2003).]
I'm glad you responded. I did continue to look and at one time, this was called demis, dermal, or demis fat grafts. Abdominal fat grafts have been used for many types of surgeries for quite some time, especially plastic surgery. It was included in with the other the autogenous type replacements and I was told about it.
I hope your Surgeon has made improvements in using autogenous material and improvements in these surgical techniques. You are certain that he uses fat grafts only and not some type of synthetic material along with it. I did read about a procedure using both.
I had failures with auricular cartilage and it caused me to have another surgery to have them out. I was told 6 years ago that nothing autogenous would hold up and a discectomy was the best option. I was told that the majority of autogenous replacements fail within 2 to 5 years.
I am still very interested in new techniques as I am living without disc. I am doing pretty well right now, but if at any time someone comes up with something that does work, properly functioning joints with disc would be better.
Would you mind posting his name. That is within the guidelines. (We may not post web-sites)
I don't think anyone else has heard of this and there may be others who would like to know.
Good Luck,
Cymy Sue
[This message has been edited by Cymy Sue (edited 08-21-2003).]
Staize
08-21-2003, 06:45 PM
My doc's name is Mark A. Piper. Just type that in and his web-sites will pop up. He's brilliant. He's done more tmj surgeries than any other in THE WORLD, and that's why he is also expensive. But I'm learning that he is very much so worth it all.
Cymy Sue
08-21-2003, 07:05 PM
Staize,
If you have surgery, I wish you well.
Please keep us informed.
Cymy Sue
If you have surgery, I wish you well.
Please keep us informed.
Cymy Sue
saaraah
08-21-2003, 07:13 PM
staize - just to be on the safe side, you should try to get a list of patients who've had the surgery and see what their opinions and outcomes were. that way you'll get first-hand opinions of what really happens after the surgery.
sorry but im very distrustful of doctors who say that they've never had a problem with their surgery. :)
im curious - what are your symptoms and what types of treatments have you tried?
good luck.
- saaraah.
sorry but im very distrustful of doctors who say that they've never had a problem with their surgery. :)
im curious - what are your symptoms and what types of treatments have you tried?
good luck.
- saaraah.
Sharbear
08-24-2003, 02:56 AM
Dr. Piper has you convinced that he invented that procedure. Hummm... I have actually heard a lot about him. If you get involved in other groups and lists you will learn too. He has you convinced that he is like the best in the world but then yet he is still doing that procedure which most surgeons stay away from. It does not work. It will be great for a while but from what I have heard the fat breaks down and does not work well as a inter positional disk. Think, he wants to replace your disks with fat, you constantly move your jaw, it's probably one of the most used joints in your body. Did you ask him how many times that fat will need to be replaced? Ask him to have at least five of his successful patients call you and tell you how wonderful he is and how wondeful they feel. I'm not trying ot be nasty, really. I'm trying to be helpful, I wish someone would have tried to warn me before i let them take my disks out.
Sharri
Sharri
DianeTMJ
08-24-2003, 05:37 PM
Hello Stazie -
Okay, If it were me...... I would request of Dr Piper to speak with 6 patients. 3 patients 2-3 years post surgery, 3 patients 6 years or more post surgery. Note - the same type of surgery only, not just any TMJ surgery. If he did not have any patients 6 years or more, that means to me, that they do not know long term how the joint will do.. I simply would not have the surgery. Why? Because the TM joint wears, I can not imagine the fat tissue remaining that long in such an active joint. I would want to know that I am not going to need any further surgery.
I most likely should not have entered this post, but I can not help but be concerned. There are so few successful tmj surgeries out there.
Stazie, I wish you the best, please.
Diane
PS - The thing that disturbs me about his patient thank yous, is that there are no dates of when surgery was done, or how long ago they had their surgeries.
[This message has been edited by DianeTMJ (edited 08-24-2003).]
Okay, If it were me...... I would request of Dr Piper to speak with 6 patients. 3 patients 2-3 years post surgery, 3 patients 6 years or more post surgery. Note - the same type of surgery only, not just any TMJ surgery. If he did not have any patients 6 years or more, that means to me, that they do not know long term how the joint will do.. I simply would not have the surgery. Why? Because the TM joint wears, I can not imagine the fat tissue remaining that long in such an active joint. I would want to know that I am not going to need any further surgery.
I most likely should not have entered this post, but I can not help but be concerned. There are so few successful tmj surgeries out there.
Stazie, I wish you the best, please.
Diane
PS - The thing that disturbs me about his patient thank yous, is that there are no dates of when surgery was done, or how long ago they had their surgeries.
[This message has been edited by DianeTMJ (edited 08-24-2003).]
Staize
08-26-2003, 02:08 PM
Sharbear, could you tell me what all you have heard about Dr. Piper?
Staize
08-26-2003, 02:08 PM
Sharbear, could you please tell me what all you have heard about Dr. Piper?
mdla
08-27-2003, 04:16 AM
Hello
I too wish you luck. How does he know your disks need replacing without looking at them in the arthoscopy with the cameras actually inside? Replacement seems like a big step without that. But I do wish you luck! Keep us posted
I too wish you luck. How does he know your disks need replacing without looking at them in the arthoscopy with the cameras actually inside? Replacement seems like a big step without that. But I do wish you luck! Keep us posted
Cymy Sue
08-27-2003, 05:10 AM
Hi mdla,
You do not have to have an arthroscopy for the Doctors to know the condition of your disc. They can see any type of damage to the soft tissue with an MRI.
After I had MRI's and a tomogram, they told me exactly what kind of mess I had. My surgeon actually drew a picture for me to show me what was left of my disc and where they were, hanging out of the joint.
Cymy Sue
You do not have to have an arthroscopy for the Doctors to know the condition of your disc. They can see any type of damage to the soft tissue with an MRI.
After I had MRI's and a tomogram, they told me exactly what kind of mess I had. My surgeon actually drew a picture for me to show me what was left of my disc and where they were, hanging out of the joint.
Cymy Sue
OHJELJ
08-27-2003, 11:24 AM
In many cases, the MRIs do not show a clear picture of the condition of the discs....
[This message has been edited by OHJELJ (edited 08-27-2003).]
[This message has been edited by OHJELJ (edited 08-27-2003).]
Cymy Sue
08-27-2003, 01:41 PM
Jennifer,
I guess I was very fortunate with all the MRI's I've had and had radiologist who knew how to read them.
I have heard that sometimes that are read incorrectly if the radiologist is not familiar with the TM joint.
I have heard of people getting more than one opinion, if they or their Doctor are not satisfied with the reading.
Did you have to have an arthroscopic procedure for a diagnosis of your condition?
I was told that sometimes they run into more scar tissue and adhesions than expected, but they usually have a pretty good idea of what to expect before the surgery.
Cymy Sue
I guess I was very fortunate with all the MRI's I've had and had radiologist who knew how to read them.
I have heard that sometimes that are read incorrectly if the radiologist is not familiar with the TM joint.
I have heard of people getting more than one opinion, if they or their Doctor are not satisfied with the reading.
Did you have to have an arthroscopic procedure for a diagnosis of your condition?
I was told that sometimes they run into more scar tissue and adhesions than expected, but they usually have a pretty good idea of what to expect before the surgery.
Cymy Sue
OHJELJ
08-27-2003, 03:48 PM
CymySue,
My MRI said that I had two slipped discs (the second time) but when he got in, there was so much damage and bone damage that wasn't on the MRI, so I don't hold too much stock in the MRI as gospel. Both of my surgeries showed one thing on the MRI and another when they actually opened the joints....
The same type of thing happened for a few other surgeries I've had as well...MRIs are only as clear as looking through a cloud per the head of the Radiology Dept. here at the hospital I've been going to....especially when looking at a joint with many angles....
Just my experience.
Jennifer
My MRI said that I had two slipped discs (the second time) but when he got in, there was so much damage and bone damage that wasn't on the MRI, so I don't hold too much stock in the MRI as gospel. Both of my surgeries showed one thing on the MRI and another when they actually opened the joints....
The same type of thing happened for a few other surgeries I've had as well...MRIs are only as clear as looking through a cloud per the head of the Radiology Dept. here at the hospital I've been going to....especially when looking at a joint with many angles....
Just my experience.
Jennifer
Elaine
08-28-2003, 12:24 AM
MRI's are only as good as the one who reads them. If they aren't knowledgeable enough to read them, then obviously things are going to look different with surgical intervention. With my TMJ surgeries, "naturally" the doctor told me that things were worse than he had originally thought. I really think it makes the oral surgeons feel better about doing the surgery to scare the $$$$ out of you. With my back fusions, the MRI's showed exactly what the doctor said needed fixing, nothing more, nothing less. Again, maybe that radiologist knew how to read them. Who knows?
Elaine
Elaine
mdla
08-28-2003, 01:54 AM
Hi all,
Yes my problem with my MRI, the center who performed it found noting by fluid, which was werid since I couldnt even open. Then UCLA looked and told me they were displaced they told me, "moved foward" but I got no other description. Then another surgeon looked and said displanced and retracted or something weird, no one ever gave me concrete conclusion. When I demanded one, they said, TMJ MRI's just arent very clear which has got to be wrong in some way they just dont know how to look at them and I cant find someone who does.
Yes my problem with my MRI, the center who performed it found noting by fluid, which was werid since I couldnt even open. Then UCLA looked and told me they were displaced they told me, "moved foward" but I got no other description. Then another surgeon looked and said displanced and retracted or something weird, no one ever gave me concrete conclusion. When I demanded one, they said, TMJ MRI's just arent very clear which has got to be wrong in some way they just dont know how to look at them and I cant find someone who does.
mdla
08-28-2003, 01:55 AM
oops forgot to add, thats the other thing that makes me really uncomfortable about TMJ surgeries. Lets say Im out, they are going to do arthroscopy and find all this mess and do more, Im out and wont know and could be messed up worse ahhh
Cymy Sue
08-28-2003, 06:52 AM
mdla,
If you had this to determine whether or not you need surgery, then someone has not done their job.
I have had several prior to surgery, the first back in 1989 and they saw exactly what was going on. I know they have improved these things in the last 14 years.
With the last 2 surgeries, the testing was done at the hospital where my surgeon is. He gave explicit instructions as to what he wanted. The imaging was done with my head in several different positions and angles, and he got what he wanted. The radiologist is trained to read these films and there was never a problem or question as to what the procedures would entail and the condition of my joints.
I have seen posts like yours, so I know this happens.
However, you can get clear & precise imaging if you have trained tech's doing them and radiologists who are trained to read them.
If you research TMJ-MRI's, you will see that it is possible to get good imaging.
I would never consider going into a surgery, being told that they did not have clear pictures. You are being jerked around on this and a good surgeon would demand another MRI. I also always had tomograms, c-scans, and X-rays to check for bone damage & other problems.
I didn't have good results from the surgeries, but I can say that I had excellent testing prior to them.
I don't understand the differences in these tests and the results from one area to another.
You need to find somewhere that does a lot of TMJ imaging and has people who know what to look for. Then you need to find someone to explain it to you in English. If this can be done in "Podunk" Alabama, I believe it can be done elsewhere.
You're right about being "out" and the procedure being changed. You would have to sign a release form allowing this.
Good luck to you and don't settle for something that you are not comfortable with,
Cymy Sue
If you had this to determine whether or not you need surgery, then someone has not done their job.
I have had several prior to surgery, the first back in 1989 and they saw exactly what was going on. I know they have improved these things in the last 14 years.
With the last 2 surgeries, the testing was done at the hospital where my surgeon is. He gave explicit instructions as to what he wanted. The imaging was done with my head in several different positions and angles, and he got what he wanted. The radiologist is trained to read these films and there was never a problem or question as to what the procedures would entail and the condition of my joints.
I have seen posts like yours, so I know this happens.
However, you can get clear & precise imaging if you have trained tech's doing them and radiologists who are trained to read them.
If you research TMJ-MRI's, you will see that it is possible to get good imaging.
I would never consider going into a surgery, being told that they did not have clear pictures. You are being jerked around on this and a good surgeon would demand another MRI. I also always had tomograms, c-scans, and X-rays to check for bone damage & other problems.
I didn't have good results from the surgeries, but I can say that I had excellent testing prior to them.
I don't understand the differences in these tests and the results from one area to another.
You need to find somewhere that does a lot of TMJ imaging and has people who know what to look for. Then you need to find someone to explain it to you in English. If this can be done in "Podunk" Alabama, I believe it can be done elsewhere.
You're right about being "out" and the procedure being changed. You would have to sign a release form allowing this.
Good luck to you and don't settle for something that you are not comfortable with,
Cymy Sue
mdla
08-28-2003, 10:00 AM
Seriously you would think that Cedars Siani the hospital of choice for Beverly Hills, or UCLA could read these things right.
saaraah
08-28-2003, 11:45 AM
mdla - i agree with cymy sue. i think that the health professionals you've seen dont understand what they're looking at - im sure that the MRI pictures themselves are clear to someone who knows what to look for. you need to find a competent doctor/dentist to tell you exactly what's going on. :)
silly doctors not wanting to admit that they dont know something.. heaven forbid they look foolish! ;)
take care,
- saaraah.
silly doctors not wanting to admit that they dont know something.. heaven forbid they look foolish! ;)
take care,
- saaraah.
kaamom
08-29-2003, 11:03 PM
Hi staize, wow I cant believe it, you are going to have the same proceedure im having done. My doctor(who is not the same as yours) is doing the diskectomy with fat graphing from my stomach also. Im Having it done in October. Have you had it done yet, how are you doing? Was there alot of pain,swelling,brusing afterwards. Im very nervouse about that part.But I did tell him since he was taking out some fat from my stomach, that he could take as much as possible, I could use a little tummy tuck LOL. Well I hope all went well with you, please reply, Thanks Kaamom
Staize
08-30-2003, 05:51 PM
I have not had the surgery yet. I am hoping to get it done in December some time. Could you write back and let me know who your doctor is? I do wish you a lot of luck though!!! How long has your doc been doing this kind of surgery? I just recently got the names of some of the patients that my doc had done the suregry on. That way I can hear first hand what it's like. I will talk to them and keep you informed. How much will your surgery cost you?
DianeTMJ
08-30-2003, 06:00 PM
Hi Stazie-
I am glad to hear your surgeon gave you a list of previous patients to speak with. Please be sure that you have spoken with patients at least 3-5 post surgery. I can not caution you enough about moving forward with any type of surgery on your TM joint.
Have you tried any other treatment?
Thanks
Diane
I am glad to hear your surgeon gave you a list of previous patients to speak with. Please be sure that you have spoken with patients at least 3-5 post surgery. I can not caution you enough about moving forward with any type of surgery on your TM joint.
Have you tried any other treatment?
Thanks
Diane
Cymy Sue
08-30-2003, 09:26 PM
To Staize and kaamom,
I can give you some insight as to what to expect with your autogenous grafts.
If you have a very, very good surgeon the area where the graft is harvested will cause much more pain & pain longer than your joints . The first 12 hours after the surgery, you will have a weird ice pack thing around your head as tightly as possible to help with swelling. Your face will swell anyway and this is very uncomfortable to say the least.
When you go home, your head will resemble a bowling ball for a few weeks and your opening will be very limited until you get used to the new disc. You will regain some on your opening. The pain in your joints is not too awfully bad if the surgery goes well and should be going away in about 2-4 weeks. The harvest area takes longer. You will be on antibiotics due to the possibility of infection. If it's an arthroplasty, you will have 3 inch scars in front of your ears. If it can be done with an arthroscope, the scarring won't be so bad. There is a possibility of nerve damage with either procedure due to where they cut.
This procedure could have changed in the last few years, but I read about it and it sounds about the same as mine.
The main question to ask both of your Doctors or the patients whose #'s you have been given, is how long do they last. Tell them you want numbers of patients and numbers of years. (I'm not real trusting of calling numbers a potential surgeon has given. If I were trying to get your business, I'd make sure you got excellent reports)I would ask the Doctor face to face, how many people he's done that has grafts over 5 years old and how they're doing.( And then I would still be skeptical)
The latest research on autogenous grafts is that they last 2 to 5 years. Mine lasted 2. Many Surgeons won't do this anymore, they say it doesn't work.
Hopefully you have found that miracle we're all looking for and this information is obsolete.
I would be sure to ask how everything is done now.
I do wish you both the best, but it ain't no walk in the park, it's a real surgery.
Cymy Sue
[This message has been edited by Cymy Sue (edited 08-30-2003).]
I can give you some insight as to what to expect with your autogenous grafts.
If you have a very, very good surgeon the area where the graft is harvested will cause much more pain & pain longer than your joints . The first 12 hours after the surgery, you will have a weird ice pack thing around your head as tightly as possible to help with swelling. Your face will swell anyway and this is very uncomfortable to say the least.
When you go home, your head will resemble a bowling ball for a few weeks and your opening will be very limited until you get used to the new disc. You will regain some on your opening. The pain in your joints is not too awfully bad if the surgery goes well and should be going away in about 2-4 weeks. The harvest area takes longer. You will be on antibiotics due to the possibility of infection. If it's an arthroplasty, you will have 3 inch scars in front of your ears. If it can be done with an arthroscope, the scarring won't be so bad. There is a possibility of nerve damage with either procedure due to where they cut.
This procedure could have changed in the last few years, but I read about it and it sounds about the same as mine.
The main question to ask both of your Doctors or the patients whose #'s you have been given, is how long do they last. Tell them you want numbers of patients and numbers of years. (I'm not real trusting of calling numbers a potential surgeon has given. If I were trying to get your business, I'd make sure you got excellent reports)I would ask the Doctor face to face, how many people he's done that has grafts over 5 years old and how they're doing.( And then I would still be skeptical)
The latest research on autogenous grafts is that they last 2 to 5 years. Mine lasted 2. Many Surgeons won't do this anymore, they say it doesn't work.
Hopefully you have found that miracle we're all looking for and this information is obsolete.
I would be sure to ask how everything is done now.
I do wish you both the best, but it ain't no walk in the park, it's a real surgery.
Cymy Sue
[This message has been edited by Cymy Sue (edited 08-30-2003).]
Cymy Sue
09-09-2003, 05:31 AM
bump for kaamom
Cymy Sue
10-28-2003, 05:17 PM
http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/t_up.gif for caro
QA11
10-28-2003, 06:48 PM
Staize,
Dr. Piper is, or at least was, affiliated with the Center for Advanced Dental Studies, which is Dr. Dawson's group. They are of the fumctional rehab philosophy. If you want to check out another philosophy check out members of Amer Acad of Orofacial Pain (AAOFP) via their website. These two groups vehemently disagree about surgery and bite discrepencies. Surgery rarely, if ever, makes you "whole" again, but may allow you to function better on a daily basis depending completely upon what the surgery would "fix." And surgery has its own risks. People on this board have experienced a wide variety of results for the different surgeries they've had. All we want is for you to make a good decision for you. Forget the ego stuff of "developing" the proceedure" or being "cutting edge." What you need to know is whether it will truly help you or is just another hopeful experimental surgery. Will any of the nerves be damaged? Are you now a chronic pain patient and if so, does the surgery help that? Two and a half years is a long time. Please understand that I don't know whether surgery is a good idea for you or not. Just make sure you are realistic about what the surgery can do and what the risks are. Find out the alternatives the best you can, and then make the decision. Regardless of your decision, good luck.
Qa11
Dr. Piper is, or at least was, affiliated with the Center for Advanced Dental Studies, which is Dr. Dawson's group. They are of the fumctional rehab philosophy. If you want to check out another philosophy check out members of Amer Acad of Orofacial Pain (AAOFP) via their website. These two groups vehemently disagree about surgery and bite discrepencies. Surgery rarely, if ever, makes you "whole" again, but may allow you to function better on a daily basis depending completely upon what the surgery would "fix." And surgery has its own risks. People on this board have experienced a wide variety of results for the different surgeries they've had. All we want is for you to make a good decision for you. Forget the ego stuff of "developing" the proceedure" or being "cutting edge." What you need to know is whether it will truly help you or is just another hopeful experimental surgery. Will any of the nerves be damaged? Are you now a chronic pain patient and if so, does the surgery help that? Two and a half years is a long time. Please understand that I don't know whether surgery is a good idea for you or not. Just make sure you are realistic about what the surgery can do and what the risks are. Find out the alternatives the best you can, and then make the decision. Regardless of your decision, good luck.
Qa11
goodwillstacy
11-12-2003, 01:40 AM
Staize,
Dr. Piper is, or at least was, affiliated with the Center for Advanced Dental Studies, which is Dr. Dawson's group. They are of the fumctional rehab philosophy. If you want to check out another philosophy check out members of Amer Acad of Orofacial Pain (AAOFP) via their website. These two groups vehemently disagree about surgery and bite discrepencies. Surgery rarely, if ever, makes you "whole" again, but may allow you to function better on a daily basis depending completely upon what the surgery would "fix." And surgery has its own risks. People on this board have experienced a wide variety of results for the different surgeries they've had. All we want is for you to make a good decision for you. Forget the ego stuff of "developing" the proceedure" or being "cutting edge." What you need to know is whether it will truly help you or is just another hopeful experimental surgery. Will any of the nerves be damaged? Are you now a chronic pain patient and if so, does the surgery help that? Two and a half years is a long time. Please understand that I don't know whether surgery is a good idea for you or not. Just make sure you are realistic about what the surgery can do and what the risks are. Find out the alternatives the best you can, and then make the decision. Regardless of your decision, good luck.
Qa11
Hi Qa11,
Very well said. I wanted to post on this subject saying pretty much the same things you have. One point that I do want to expand on is the part about chronic pain. My surgeon very clearly told me and my family before my bilateral arthoplasty (suturing discs in place- no grafts), that while this may fix the internal derangement in my joint that is causing SOME of the pain, (sometimes we can't be certain where all of the pain is coming from-there are just too many variables) I may still be left with residual pain that might not be able to be fixed. This is in part due to the fact that I have had TMJ for 8 years, I think it is (I've lost count, LOL), and the pain seems to have just etched a little comfortable place for itself in my brain. LOL. Although I joke, it's not a joking matter, in that surgery isn't always the answer. Being 4 months post-surgery, I can look at it with a *little* better perpective than I could have at, say, 1 month post surgery, but even now, I know I have years to know if this surgery has been completely successful.
My point is, that you shouldn't look to surgery as a cure, but more of a treatment to help *lessen* the pain. The biggest thing that came out of the surgery for me wasn't physical at all, but actually emotional. I learned that there is probably nothing more that I can do to "cure" myself of this disease. It will always be present and while I can do certain things to lessen the pain, it will never go away completely. I have stopped devoting all of my time to finding that miracle cure, and have been spending more time on just living.
I think it was Cymy Sue that said that surgery is not a cake walk.. it is the real deal. I remember waking up post surgery in the recovery room with my neat little head wrap on, (oh, how I hated that thing!!) bawling. Uncontrollably. It was probably a combination of the anesthesia and the pain, but the pain was there and it was horrible. You just have to examine your life and ask yourself if it is really worth putting you and your family through something like that.
If the answer is still yes, then you've gotten somewhere..
In any case, I'm glad to be back on this board reading and lurking around. I've missed you guys.
hope everyone is doing well,
stacy
Dr. Piper is, or at least was, affiliated with the Center for Advanced Dental Studies, which is Dr. Dawson's group. They are of the fumctional rehab philosophy. If you want to check out another philosophy check out members of Amer Acad of Orofacial Pain (AAOFP) via their website. These two groups vehemently disagree about surgery and bite discrepencies. Surgery rarely, if ever, makes you "whole" again, but may allow you to function better on a daily basis depending completely upon what the surgery would "fix." And surgery has its own risks. People on this board have experienced a wide variety of results for the different surgeries they've had. All we want is for you to make a good decision for you. Forget the ego stuff of "developing" the proceedure" or being "cutting edge." What you need to know is whether it will truly help you or is just another hopeful experimental surgery. Will any of the nerves be damaged? Are you now a chronic pain patient and if so, does the surgery help that? Two and a half years is a long time. Please understand that I don't know whether surgery is a good idea for you or not. Just make sure you are realistic about what the surgery can do and what the risks are. Find out the alternatives the best you can, and then make the decision. Regardless of your decision, good luck.
Qa11
Hi Qa11,
Very well said. I wanted to post on this subject saying pretty much the same things you have. One point that I do want to expand on is the part about chronic pain. My surgeon very clearly told me and my family before my bilateral arthoplasty (suturing discs in place- no grafts), that while this may fix the internal derangement in my joint that is causing SOME of the pain, (sometimes we can't be certain where all of the pain is coming from-there are just too many variables) I may still be left with residual pain that might not be able to be fixed. This is in part due to the fact that I have had TMJ for 8 years, I think it is (I've lost count, LOL), and the pain seems to have just etched a little comfortable place for itself in my brain. LOL. Although I joke, it's not a joking matter, in that surgery isn't always the answer. Being 4 months post-surgery, I can look at it with a *little* better perpective than I could have at, say, 1 month post surgery, but even now, I know I have years to know if this surgery has been completely successful.
My point is, that you shouldn't look to surgery as a cure, but more of a treatment to help *lessen* the pain. The biggest thing that came out of the surgery for me wasn't physical at all, but actually emotional. I learned that there is probably nothing more that I can do to "cure" myself of this disease. It will always be present and while I can do certain things to lessen the pain, it will never go away completely. I have stopped devoting all of my time to finding that miracle cure, and have been spending more time on just living.
I think it was Cymy Sue that said that surgery is not a cake walk.. it is the real deal. I remember waking up post surgery in the recovery room with my neat little head wrap on, (oh, how I hated that thing!!) bawling. Uncontrollably. It was probably a combination of the anesthesia and the pain, but the pain was there and it was horrible. You just have to examine your life and ask yourself if it is really worth putting you and your family through something like that.
If the answer is still yes, then you've gotten somewhere..
In any case, I'm glad to be back on this board reading and lurking around. I've missed you guys.
hope everyone is doing well,
stacy
Al4
11-12-2003, 03:48 AM
Very depressing.