mavrick36
11-29-2001, 03:39 PM
I am not too bad of shape but alote of people have been telling me that steriods are not that harmful when you only take one cycle(one or two months). I heard that you do lose your strenth when you get off then but would you lose your mass too? I would like to learn about safer steriods and the proper ones to take. if anyone could help me out It would be appreitated.
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eblastics
12-21-2001, 08:48 PM
Hi mavrick36 - I'm 25 yrs old and took steroids a few years ago. I took Dbol pills alone and at one time stacked them with shots of Omnidren. They worked great and I was absolultey delighted to finally be making progress in size, strength, & and most importantly to me, weight gain. Guess what though? Eventually the cycle came to an end (6 weeks) and I lost every single pound I gained, plus some. I desperately tried to maintain what I gained by taking creatine, working out extra hard, eating better than ever, etc... It didn't matter, it was all long gone and I was feeling so bleak about it I quit working out for over a year.
The fact is steroids are very temporary and not at all worth what they do to your body. I got a blood test 3 weeks into my cycle and my liver values were about 20,000 (normal is about 200).
Personally, I recommend cell tech creatine (drink a ton of water when taking creatine), a healthy diet, and patience.
Good luck.
The fact is steroids are very temporary and not at all worth what they do to your body. I got a blood test 3 weeks into my cycle and my liver values were about 20,000 (normal is about 200).
Personally, I recommend cell tech creatine (drink a ton of water when taking creatine), a healthy diet, and patience.
Good luck.
andreaphilip3
02-20-2002, 02:47 PM
bad stuff :( dont do it.
drisnya
04-13-2002, 11:15 PM
what about prohormones???? 4-diol, for example. these are natural derivatives that do produce > testosterone levels. i believe (in my limited research) that steroids are a far different thing....i saw some stuff that was veterinarian....horse shots? you gotta be kidding me...
i took a couple of cycles of 4-diol, and 19 nordiol about six months ago and had super gains in strength and moderate size. very pleasing and i did not work out to become a body-builder. when i cycled off i had no problems at all. i exercise a little less than i did when i was taking them but i attribute that to a pesky left elbow that keeps me from going heavy on bench and curls.
with prohormones i had zero rage but i did have an urge to actually get up and do some exercises...i can't say anything bad them.
i took a couple of cycles of 4-diol, and 19 nordiol about six months ago and had super gains in strength and moderate size. very pleasing and i did not work out to become a body-builder. when i cycled off i had no problems at all. i exercise a little less than i did when i was taking them but i attribute that to a pesky left elbow that keeps me from going heavy on bench and curls.
with prohormones i had zero rage but i did have an urge to actually get up and do some exercises...i can't say anything bad them.
Jay Tor
04-14-2002, 07:08 PM
From personal experience [my child's] steroids are very risky even when prescribed in a life-threatening situation.
Most steroids are immune-suppressants. This means that they suppress your entire immune system therefore you cannot fight off infections properly. This is because steroids inhibit the bone marrow which produces blood [oxygen-trasnporting red cells, infection-fighting white cells and platelets].
The 'muscle' tissue gained on steroids esp. the prednisone-related steroids lacks substance - it's squishy - stringy and waterlogged.
Excess steroids cause the adrenal glands to shut down. This means that you must slowly wean yourself off the steroids otherwise you risk serious, even fatal, consequences.
Don't know much about hormone precursors. But if these precursors somehow interact within the same metabolic pathways as the steroids, then there's a good likelihood that they might result in similar problems. May be a good idea to check on exactly how they're metabolized - anything going through the liver or kidneys needs to be carefully monitored anyway.
Would suggest some more reading/research starting with the NIH and NLM databases.
Most steroids are immune-suppressants. This means that they suppress your entire immune system therefore you cannot fight off infections properly. This is because steroids inhibit the bone marrow which produces blood [oxygen-trasnporting red cells, infection-fighting white cells and platelets].
The 'muscle' tissue gained on steroids esp. the prednisone-related steroids lacks substance - it's squishy - stringy and waterlogged.
Excess steroids cause the adrenal glands to shut down. This means that you must slowly wean yourself off the steroids otherwise you risk serious, even fatal, consequences.
Don't know much about hormone precursors. But if these precursors somehow interact within the same metabolic pathways as the steroids, then there's a good likelihood that they might result in similar problems. May be a good idea to check on exactly how they're metabolized - anything going through the liver or kidneys needs to be carefully monitored anyway.
Would suggest some more reading/research starting with the NIH and NLM databases.
Roidaholic
05-21-2002, 10:49 PM
Hey mav, dont let anyone tell you steroids are bad for you. Steroids are not bad for you any more than doctors prescriptions are bad for you, or even food is bad for you. The fact is ANYTHING is bad for you if you ABUSE it. As far as the other info is concerned, i wont delve too much into detail as im sure i would bore you all, but know that there are things you can take that promotes lean mass gains (ie: not losing after cycle).
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TheShiftyEyedOne
05-22-2002, 07:48 AM
I wouldn't do it, but then again, I like the challenge of seeing how far I can push my body naturally.
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[This message has been edited by moderator2 (edited 05-22-2002).]
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Jay Tor
05-22-2002, 11:58 AM
Roid:
Unless there's a da**ed good medical reason for using steroids, steroids are extremely dangerous and should be steered clear of. Even prescribed low-dose steroid therapy [i.e. asthma] requires careful monitoring.
Unless there's a da**ed good medical reason for using steroids, steroids are extremely dangerous and should be steered clear of. Even prescribed low-dose steroid therapy [i.e. asthma] requires careful monitoring.
mavrick36
05-24-2002, 12:19 PM
Yeah, I think I have made up my mine about steriods. I don't think after all the stuff I hear about it that it is really safe. I had a couple friends tell me, the if you monitor it and don't abuse it it is alright for your body. It could be good for you or it could be bad for you, but for now I think I am going to lay off off the idea for awhile and see what happens, I am gaining my mass the natural way right now, but I think I am going to get some creatine or protein powder for more muscle gain, but thanks alot for your help guys. Talk to ya later.
Roidaholic
05-24-2002, 04:20 PM
To begin my rant, ;) if you are still gaining muscle naturally, there is no good reason to start juicing. That will hinder your future gains and limit your advantage. Secondly, steroids have gotten a bad rap as far as myself and MANY others are concerned. ASpirin kills more people than steroids, shall we take that off the market and keep watch over any human who chooses to consume it? Oh yes, and obesity leads to SEVERAL conditions whos outcome is death, we should probably go and outlaw food too. What a great idea, good thinkin Big Jay. We all have our own opinions, but please be leary of what you say when you cant back it up. I can give you the names of THOUSANDS (probably more) of people who juice correctly, and suffer no long term effects at all (besides great physiques). YOu can probably name a couple retards who abuse the stuff and get screwed for it. The fact is anything not taken in moderation can hurt you. This is always a huge debate, and i love to talk to people about it because the fact is there are so many people who choose to go "on" and i like them to see the useful exchange of ideas. Dont get me wrong, i fully acknowledge that the ABUSE of steroids can lead to harmful side effects. But i also maintain, with thousands of anecdotal reports (as well as a few studies) to show that moderate use of steroids is NOT going to harm you. Lookin forward to hearin more, take it easy =)
Beth Ann
05-24-2002, 06:31 PM
I've just got to put my 2 cents worth in. Just 2 weeks ago, a friend of a friend of mine died....from steroid use. (But he was abusing them.) He was only 28, and had been using steroids since he was 15. He used massive quantities, and it ruined his kidneys, which is what killed him. He had even told several people over the years that he'd probably never live to see 30. He knew what he was doing was wrong. And that's not all.....a co-worker of mine got deathly sick last year....kidney failure. He wasn't expected to live, but got a kidney transplant from his sister and is doing good now. The doctors were baffled as to why it all happened. He never told them he had done steroids in the past (hadn't used them in about a year or so). Only his close friends knew about his steroid use. They truly believe that that is what caused his medical problems. But, wait....not done yet. My nephew has been into body-building now for about 6 years, and been using steroids for the past 3. He's having a lot of medical problems, kidneys included. He refuses to think the steroids have caused his problem. He also refuses to believe that he's really big. He's huge! He's 6 ft. tall and weighed 140 lbs. when he started, and got up to 205. He thinks he's not big enough and just keeps getting bigger and bigger. He looked great at 180 lbs....before his steroid use. Now he looks like a freak. The natural way is best. At least that's what I think. But I take diet pills, so I guess I'm living a double standard, huh? Hope I haven't made anyone mad. I'm just telling it like it is. A lot of steroid users are in severe denial. It reminds me of someone who is anorexic-only opposite. You know what I mean? An anorexic might weigh 95 lbs., but looks in the mirror and sees herself as being grossly overweight. A steroid addict is huge, looks in the mirror, and sees a "not-big-enough-man".
Sorry for the long posting everyone. The death of the 28-yr-old just freaked me out. Makes me worry about my nephew. I'm 34, and he's 29. More like a brother than a nephew.
Sorry for the long posting everyone. The death of the 28-yr-old just freaked me out. Makes me worry about my nephew. I'm 34, and he's 29. More like a brother than a nephew.
Roidaholic
05-24-2002, 10:31 PM
No need for the apology Beth Ann, i hope people will read through that several times, especially before they consider using. What most bodybuilders (myself included) suffer from is a psychological issue called body dysmorphia. Just as anorexics do, we have an unrealistic view of ourselves and bodies. I for instance, am 5'8 228lbs at 9% bf. To many this is competition worthy and relatively "big." But i can honestly say that i wont be nearly satisfied until i am at least 240 with a lower competition bf. This can and does occasionally lead to abuse of steroids, which NO rational person will argue causes sometimes disasterous health issues. Part of the reason i am so open about my use and information in general is because an informed user is much less likely to abuse steroids than a kid who wants to get "big" and goes to the biggest guy in the gym to find out where to get stuff. If people keep saying "its bad, dont do it," a lot of people with issues like mine are not gonna listen, but rather just start using, uninformed. This is where disaster will strike. I am very sorry about your loss, i hope others will benefit in some way from it.
Roid
Roid
Beth Ann
05-25-2002, 10:14 AM
Hey Roid, Thanks for understanding. I do hope people read through my post several times. You know what? I forgot to mention this before. The 28 yr. old guy that I told you about...well...people are keeping the whole steroid thing quiet. It's almost like his family is embarrassed to tell about it. I think they need to tell EVERYBODY!! That's why I wanted to tell about it. Maybe I could help and save someone. I wish you didn't feel the need to be so big. I watched a body-building competition not too long ago, on the Discovery channel I think. Anyway, they had 2 divisions. Men who used steroids, and men who didn't. Yes, the men who didn't were not as "big", but to me, they looked so much better! I know it's all a mind thing. The world talks about anorexia and bulimia so much. They need to notice that this is a problem also. I wish you luck, Roid, and I wish you didn't feel the need to be so big. And hey, Mavrick, I'm glad you decided against steroid use. You might want to check out the Body-for-Life book. It is really helpful. Teaches you how to eat right and improve your body. Has a whole section on what exercises to do. The guy that wrote the book also puts out Muscle Media magazine, which is also good. Last year, I was working out on a regular basis, but I got into a "funk" and quit. I'm finally getting back into it. :) Mavrick, I wish you luck. It seems no one out there is ever happy with their bodies, are they?
Jay Tor
05-25-2002, 09:25 PM
Roid:
I do have facts, and there have been and still are hundreds of studies conducted annually on steroids mostly to discover some other - non-steroid - option. You and anyone interested can access these facts at any medical/ science library or Web site.
I also have some personal experience with steroids. My child needed them as a life-saving measure, with all necessary enzymes and blood counts monitored scrupulously. Once past the crisis, the taper must be managed cautiously because steroids - depending on dosage, duration, etc. - can shut down adrenal function. So even during the taper, more blood work, enzymes, etc. On average, for every week you're on steroid therapy, it takes about a month to taper off. And, worst of all, the side-effects can take over a year to fully disappear.
Something that you may choose to look up is what happens metabolically to people on steroids [Cushingoid syndrome]. Having had this experience with my child - as well as knowing many other children and adults in a similar situation - I can tell you that steroids are no joke.
Have you ever given any thought as to why the medical community made and still makes such a fuss about NSAIDS? It's because -- finally -- in the late 80s/early 90s the millions of people who desperately needed anti-inflamatories could finally use a much safer option, NSAIDS [non-steroidal anti-inflammatories].
Steroids are also used to prevent organ rejection and to manage other transplant-related life-threatening problems. Steroids are still the drugs of choice for many serious medical problems - because they are so powerful - but people needing immune-suppresants long term will gladly take anything but steroids. So, yes, I'm very aware and cognizant of steroids, their upside as well as their downside.
Glad you mentioned aspirin. In the 80s, some wag at the FDA was quoted as saying that luckily for the world population aspirin was invented centuries ago because if it had been introduced in the 80s, people would only be able to obtain it through prescription. I'm not belittling aspirin - this drug is truly another medical/ pharmaceutical marvel, and should be used appropriately.
Some signs of high dose or long-term steroid usage:
... starting with the tell-tale steroid [hamster/ chipmunk] cheeks ... Cushingoid [moon] face - with eyes that look 'squished' [as per one of our youngsters] ... fatty deposit on upper back [like a dowager hump] ... a disproportionately increased layer of fat around middle [almost exactly like a towel wrapped around the middle between abs and upper thighs - evident mostly in non-exercisers] ...thinned skin and stretch marks, esp. on thighs and buns ... surges in appetite ... changes in hair growth rate, pattern and texture ... labile [changeable] moods - in extreme cases, psychotic episodes ... sleep disturbances [incl. nightmares] ... reduced immune function [increased susceptibility to viral and bacterial infection as well as viral re-activation - herpes, shingles, etc.] ... reduced blood counts ... increased wound healing time ... osteopenia and osteoporosis ... edema [water retention] ... shrinking of the testes ... and on and on ...
These are facts - check support-group bulletin boards and talk to people who NEED to be on steroids.
I do have facts, and there have been and still are hundreds of studies conducted annually on steroids mostly to discover some other - non-steroid - option. You and anyone interested can access these facts at any medical/ science library or Web site.
I also have some personal experience with steroids. My child needed them as a life-saving measure, with all necessary enzymes and blood counts monitored scrupulously. Once past the crisis, the taper must be managed cautiously because steroids - depending on dosage, duration, etc. - can shut down adrenal function. So even during the taper, more blood work, enzymes, etc. On average, for every week you're on steroid therapy, it takes about a month to taper off. And, worst of all, the side-effects can take over a year to fully disappear.
Something that you may choose to look up is what happens metabolically to people on steroids [Cushingoid syndrome]. Having had this experience with my child - as well as knowing many other children and adults in a similar situation - I can tell you that steroids are no joke.
Have you ever given any thought as to why the medical community made and still makes such a fuss about NSAIDS? It's because -- finally -- in the late 80s/early 90s the millions of people who desperately needed anti-inflamatories could finally use a much safer option, NSAIDS [non-steroidal anti-inflammatories].
Steroids are also used to prevent organ rejection and to manage other transplant-related life-threatening problems. Steroids are still the drugs of choice for many serious medical problems - because they are so powerful - but people needing immune-suppresants long term will gladly take anything but steroids. So, yes, I'm very aware and cognizant of steroids, their upside as well as their downside.
Glad you mentioned aspirin. In the 80s, some wag at the FDA was quoted as saying that luckily for the world population aspirin was invented centuries ago because if it had been introduced in the 80s, people would only be able to obtain it through prescription. I'm not belittling aspirin - this drug is truly another medical/ pharmaceutical marvel, and should be used appropriately.
Some signs of high dose or long-term steroid usage:
... starting with the tell-tale steroid [hamster/ chipmunk] cheeks ... Cushingoid [moon] face - with eyes that look 'squished' [as per one of our youngsters] ... fatty deposit on upper back [like a dowager hump] ... a disproportionately increased layer of fat around middle [almost exactly like a towel wrapped around the middle between abs and upper thighs - evident mostly in non-exercisers] ...thinned skin and stretch marks, esp. on thighs and buns ... surges in appetite ... changes in hair growth rate, pattern and texture ... labile [changeable] moods - in extreme cases, psychotic episodes ... sleep disturbances [incl. nightmares] ... reduced immune function [increased susceptibility to viral and bacterial infection as well as viral re-activation - herpes, shingles, etc.] ... reduced blood counts ... increased wound healing time ... osteopenia and osteoporosis ... edema [water retention] ... shrinking of the testes ... and on and on ...
These are facts - check support-group bulletin boards and talk to people who NEED to be on steroids.
Boozer
06-12-2002, 03:03 PM
Hasnt anyone been watching what has been going on with Ken Caminiti? The guy has major health issues now. He can no longer produce his own Testosterone naturally. That mean he is going to have to take test. supplements for the rest of his life. That doesnt sound worth it to me!
Paul
Paul