mindtrap
07-19-2003, 11:16 PM
My father is in quite the mess right now and I am very concerned.
My Father has Asthma, Diabeties, Angina, Highblood pressure, high cholestorol, Gout, prostate problems, urination problems even a hernia. On top of all this he is very depressed.
He is on the following meds
Nitro dur
Rho metformin
Norvasc
apo hydro
lipidil supra
allopurinol
paxil
flomax
benedryl
ventolin
advar discs
dilaudid.
I personally feel that he is being over medicated and his doctor is in over his head with my father. My dad can barely get himself out of bed any more and if he does hes back in bed within a couple of hours. This has been going on for two years now and my father has pretty much given up. Does anyone know of any specialist in Canada that help people with multiple problems that normal doctors can't seem to figure out
Your input is apprecaited
Thank you
My Father has Asthma, Diabeties, Angina, Highblood pressure, high cholestorol, Gout, prostate problems, urination problems even a hernia. On top of all this he is very depressed.
He is on the following meds
Nitro dur
Rho metformin
Norvasc
apo hydro
lipidil supra
allopurinol
paxil
flomax
benedryl
ventolin
advar discs
dilaudid.
I personally feel that he is being over medicated and his doctor is in over his head with my father. My dad can barely get himself out of bed any more and if he does hes back in bed within a couple of hours. This has been going on for two years now and my father has pretty much given up. Does anyone know of any specialist in Canada that help people with multiple problems that normal doctors can't seem to figure out
Your input is apprecaited
Thank you
Sponsor
thehomefolks
07-20-2003, 12:43 AM
YOU DIDN'T SAY HOW OLD YOUR FATHER WAS. AND IF HE NEEDS ALL THESE MEDS, I'M NOT SURE. DOES HIS DOCTOR SEEM TO CARE ABUT YOUR FATHER'S HEALTH? IF YU HAVEN'T MET THE DOC, MAYBE YOU SHOULD GO WITH HIM AND TALK TO THE DOCTOR YOURSELF AND TELL HIM YOUR CONCERNS. SEE WHAT HIS REACTION IS. IF YOU'RE NOT SATISFIED WITH HIS ANSWERS, FIND ANOTHER DOCTOR. GOOD LUCK. KEEP US POSTED.
orion
07-20-2003, 01:57 AM
If he is around 55 years old, I would have his testosterone, thyroid and prolactin checked. These things can cause multiple weird symptoms similar to what you have described.
Audrey-B
07-20-2003, 09:22 AM
No wonder your dad is depressed. I know i would be too if i had all those health issues and had to take all the medication and very likely change my diet to suit my condition.
I don't have answers to help. A lot of doctors out there just keep prescribing everything and anything, knowing you will keep coming back to them. This has happened to both my parents. Doctors can be like car mechanics, once they have your business they think they can take you for a ride!!! I'd change doctors and get second opinions on everything.
As for my dad, he has battled high blood pressure for quite a few years. He is 64 and his face was always extremely red. His doctor kept trying to make my dad and then my mum agree that my dad is an alcoholic due to his red face!!!! My dad may have a drink once in a while, but only with a main meal and in total moderation. Some doctors are just idiots!! Well my mother and i had just began trying out acupuncture and the lady took one look at my dad and asked him what's he doing about his high blood pressure. After just a couple of visits to her i can't believe the change in him. His face is a normal colour now and he says he hasn't felt this good in years and has so much energy.
Now i realise with all your dads health issues he can't just quit with all the medication and explore alternate type therapies, but maybe a chat with an acupuncturist might help and they can relieve at least some of his symptoms.
I don't have answers to help. A lot of doctors out there just keep prescribing everything and anything, knowing you will keep coming back to them. This has happened to both my parents. Doctors can be like car mechanics, once they have your business they think they can take you for a ride!!! I'd change doctors and get second opinions on everything.
As for my dad, he has battled high blood pressure for quite a few years. He is 64 and his face was always extremely red. His doctor kept trying to make my dad and then my mum agree that my dad is an alcoholic due to his red face!!!! My dad may have a drink once in a while, but only with a main meal and in total moderation. Some doctors are just idiots!! Well my mother and i had just began trying out acupuncture and the lady took one look at my dad and asked him what's he doing about his high blood pressure. After just a couple of visits to her i can't believe the change in him. His face is a normal colour now and he says he hasn't felt this good in years and has so much energy.
Now i realise with all your dads health issues he can't just quit with all the medication and explore alternate type therapies, but maybe a chat with an acupuncturist might help and they can relieve at least some of his symptoms.
mindtrap
07-20-2003, 11:21 AM
I guess I should give you all a bit more back ground. My Dad is 60 years old and has always been in relitlvely good health. It has only been the last 2 years when all his problems started. My dad doesn't smoke and follows a diebetic diet now. My dad did get to about 50 pounds over weight about 5 years back but he is not overely heavy.
It seems that overnight two years ago they decided that my dad had asthma. I guess it is possible to all of a sudden develop asthma, but I truely do not belive that he does. I do no for sure that he does have sleep apnia "if this is spelt correctly" It's when you stop breathing when you sleep. My father stops breathing an average of 70 times an hour and his oxegen level drops extremely low. He now sleeps with a venalator.
No more than 6 months later my father has diabeteis. He is on meds for this now but is not insulin dependant.
On top of everything my father has prostate problems, blood pressure, cholesterol and some intetinal problem where is intestines catch food particles and become infected. He also has angina and gout. Oh yes I can't forget the slipped disc in his back from playing hockey years ago
Another one of his problems he has is with his blood. From my understanding he has a condition that his red blood cells can not carry enough nutrients such as iron through his body.
My father has always been a strong person. He served many years in the military as a commanding officer and a fighter pilot. It really sadens me to see him so weak both physically and mentally. He is just not the same person.
Another thing that has me perplexed is how his right hand just starts shaking. He will be sitting the and his hand just shakes, he has no control over it. My Father spends more time in bed depressed or crying because he feels that he is letting his family down.
I am sick and tired of my dad getting run all over the place by his doctors and specialists. I know that with the proper supervison my father could become better. I would like to get my father to a Health Spa like they have in Europe where you live there for 3 months and the doctors and specialists completely over haul your meds, redo your diet, start rehab sessions for getting back into physical shape and get any surgeries done that are required. If anyone out there know of any in Canada could you please post it here. I really do not care how much they cost, I just want to have my father back.
It seems that overnight two years ago they decided that my dad had asthma. I guess it is possible to all of a sudden develop asthma, but I truely do not belive that he does. I do no for sure that he does have sleep apnia "if this is spelt correctly" It's when you stop breathing when you sleep. My father stops breathing an average of 70 times an hour and his oxegen level drops extremely low. He now sleeps with a venalator.
No more than 6 months later my father has diabeteis. He is on meds for this now but is not insulin dependant.
On top of everything my father has prostate problems, blood pressure, cholesterol and some intetinal problem where is intestines catch food particles and become infected. He also has angina and gout. Oh yes I can't forget the slipped disc in his back from playing hockey years ago
Another one of his problems he has is with his blood. From my understanding he has a condition that his red blood cells can not carry enough nutrients such as iron through his body.
My father has always been a strong person. He served many years in the military as a commanding officer and a fighter pilot. It really sadens me to see him so weak both physically and mentally. He is just not the same person.
Another thing that has me perplexed is how his right hand just starts shaking. He will be sitting the and his hand just shakes, he has no control over it. My Father spends more time in bed depressed or crying because he feels that he is letting his family down.
I am sick and tired of my dad getting run all over the place by his doctors and specialists. I know that with the proper supervison my father could become better. I would like to get my father to a Health Spa like they have in Europe where you live there for 3 months and the doctors and specialists completely over haul your meds, redo your diet, start rehab sessions for getting back into physical shape and get any surgeries done that are required. If anyone out there know of any in Canada could you please post it here. I really do not care how much they cost, I just want to have my father back.
BrookLynn
07-20-2003, 12:03 PM
If ur concerned whether or not ur father has asthma, he should c a pulmonary doctor preferrably one that deals with sleep disorders also so u can ask about the sleep apnia(sp). Does your father get all his meds at the same place? This is important because some medications can't be taken with others and sometimes you have to space them. Do a search on the medications he takes and check it out. I have asthma and have taken advair. My advice on that drug is that he rinses his mouth out after each use and gargles with warm water. Brushing his teeth wouldnt hurt either. He doesnt have to add thrush to his problems. I got that once and learned my lesson.
zuzu8
07-20-2003, 03:32 PM
Hi Mindtrap- If you lived in the U.S. I would suggest a visit and a complete evaluation at the Mayo Clinic...I don't know what the Canadian counterpart/equivalent is though. But people travel from all over the world to go to the Mayo, when their lives are turned upside down by multiple illnesses and multiple meds.
Can't tell from your post how many doctors your father is involved with but he should be seeing a cardiologist for his angina, hypertension and throw the cholesterol into that as well.
He should definitely have a urologist to help him with his prostate issues, and an endocrinologist for the diabetes. One doctor does not have the training nor expertise to handle all these disorders.
Has he been evaluated by a physician who specializes in pulmonary and respiratory disorders for his asthma? Not just some regular family doc.
If he's being seen by more than one physician they should ALL be talking to each other, especially regarding meds and possible interactions.
Your father's situation is so complicated, because it's difficult to determine if half his problems and/or symptoms aren't being caused by all these drugs alone!
Sleep apnea can be a cause of hypertension. Asthma can make apnea worse...it's a "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" question.
May I ask why he is on DILAUDID? This is a type of morphine (actually it's 2 to 8 times more potent than straight morphine) and is usually only prescribed for narcotic-tolerant patients who suffer moderate to severe pain and who require larger than usual doses of narcotics to give adequate pain relief.
Here in the U.S. the prevailing "wisdom" is that it should only be given to patients who are ALREADY receiving large doses of narcotics that aren't doing the trick.
Also, WHY the Benedryl? The pharmaceutical leaflets on this drug urge extreme CAUTION taking anti-histamines if there is prostate enlargement and if there is a history of asthma, hypertension, and heart disease. Plus it can interact with the PAXIL and give too much sedation. It can thicken bronchial secretions and cause wheezing and asthma-like symptoms...
WHY is the doctor giving an antihistamine to your father?
NORVASC obviously is for his blood pressure. Is it giving him good control? It's also a good choice of BP med for chronic stable angina and can be safely given with Nitro Dur, which I presume is being given also for the angina?
APO HYDRO is a thiazide diuretic, also for his BP...but please NOTE that thiazides can interact with the Dilaudid causing blood pressure to become too LOW resulting is hypotension, which can make your father feel faint and/or dizzy when he stands up from a lying down or sitting position.
Also APO HYDRO can play havoc with your electolytes in the blood...(salts) particularly potassium levels that can plunge and that ALONE can make you feel weak and extremely fatigued. Your father should be getting regular blood tests to monitor his potassium levels.
Norvasc Apo Hydro, Paxil, Benadryl can all cause tachycardia (rapid heart rate) ...Not that they will, but it's a side effect for some people.
The Flomax is, as you know, for his prostate. Side effects from it can be weakness, chest pain, cough, dizziness (by sometimes causing blood pressure to go too low)
Are you overwhelmed yet?
RHO METFORMIN--for his diabetes ....it's great that he doesn't need insulin. Is his diabetes and blood sugar well controlled?
However,this is a med that can interact with narcotics. That's why I asked earlier why is he on Dilaudid?
It can also interact with APO DUR (thiazide diuretics) and NORVASC (calcium channel blocker), so if his diabetes is unstable it may be because of one of these drugs. if his blood sugar is right on, then I wouldn't worry.
PAXIL has a lot of adverse reactions for some people, including fatigue, rapid heart rate (tachycardia), urinary frequency or hesitation, exacerbation (worsening) of ASTHMA, elevated BLOOD SUGAR, elevated CHOLESTEROL (although the last two are very rare side effects..) As long as his cholesterol and diabetes is being controlled, and his asthma is also not worse on it, don't worry too much.
VENTOLIN- is a bronchodilator for his asthma. Some side effects: what they call a "paradoxical reaction" in that it can actually make the asthma worse.
AVAIR DISKS- another bronchodilator for the asthma... Large doses can aggravate pre-existing diabetes. If your Dad is on a normal dose, and his diabetes is well controlled, then again, not to worry.
By the way, many of these meds can increase blood pressure. Do we know if your father always had normal BP before embarking on these drugs?
What is the pulmonary doctor ( if you have one) saying at this point? If your father's breathing is so compromised that he needs two bronchodilators, plus needs a ventilator at night I'd ask more questions.
ALLOPURINAL- for his gout. Has it worked? Is the gout any better? Just make sure that if he's taking this with APO HYDRO, he should be getting urinalysis and blood tests on a regular basis to make sure his kidney function is A-OK. These two drugs can intereact and adversely affect kidneys.
And lastly, the LIPIDIL- for his cholesterol. It is definitely to be taken WITH MEALS, which I hope the doctor told you guys. Otherwise it will not work as effectively.
His hand shaking sounds like a tremor that probably is a side effect of one or some of the meds. very common. Even on Paxil alone.
My dear Mindtrap, I hope I haven't made things worse by overwhelming you with "possibilities".
The bottom line is, that your gut instinct to take your father somewhere for a complete re-evaluation is right on.
This is an enormous amount of medication for one human body, and for all we know you father doesn't need some of them, or some of them are making things much worse. Or there are ALTERNATIVES that haven't been explored yet.
If money is no object, try to find a Canadian equivalent to the Mayo Clinic...I'd check myself in there so fast I'd look like the Road Runner.
Here is a link to the Mayo Clinic. I know that their Cancer Center has affiliates in two Canadian provinces (which I read somewhere on the site).
I don't know if they have Canadian affiliates for non-cancer issues. Check it out.:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/about/
If you have any more questions or would like me to help you search for something, please don't hesitate to ask!
All my best,
zuzu xxxx
Can't tell from your post how many doctors your father is involved with but he should be seeing a cardiologist for his angina, hypertension and throw the cholesterol into that as well.
He should definitely have a urologist to help him with his prostate issues, and an endocrinologist for the diabetes. One doctor does not have the training nor expertise to handle all these disorders.
Has he been evaluated by a physician who specializes in pulmonary and respiratory disorders for his asthma? Not just some regular family doc.
If he's being seen by more than one physician they should ALL be talking to each other, especially regarding meds and possible interactions.
Your father's situation is so complicated, because it's difficult to determine if half his problems and/or symptoms aren't being caused by all these drugs alone!
Sleep apnea can be a cause of hypertension. Asthma can make apnea worse...it's a "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" question.
May I ask why he is on DILAUDID? This is a type of morphine (actually it's 2 to 8 times more potent than straight morphine) and is usually only prescribed for narcotic-tolerant patients who suffer moderate to severe pain and who require larger than usual doses of narcotics to give adequate pain relief.
Here in the U.S. the prevailing "wisdom" is that it should only be given to patients who are ALREADY receiving large doses of narcotics that aren't doing the trick.
Also, WHY the Benedryl? The pharmaceutical leaflets on this drug urge extreme CAUTION taking anti-histamines if there is prostate enlargement and if there is a history of asthma, hypertension, and heart disease. Plus it can interact with the PAXIL and give too much sedation. It can thicken bronchial secretions and cause wheezing and asthma-like symptoms...
WHY is the doctor giving an antihistamine to your father?
NORVASC obviously is for his blood pressure. Is it giving him good control? It's also a good choice of BP med for chronic stable angina and can be safely given with Nitro Dur, which I presume is being given also for the angina?
APO HYDRO is a thiazide diuretic, also for his BP...but please NOTE that thiazides can interact with the Dilaudid causing blood pressure to become too LOW resulting is hypotension, which can make your father feel faint and/or dizzy when he stands up from a lying down or sitting position.
Also APO HYDRO can play havoc with your electolytes in the blood...(salts) particularly potassium levels that can plunge and that ALONE can make you feel weak and extremely fatigued. Your father should be getting regular blood tests to monitor his potassium levels.
Norvasc Apo Hydro, Paxil, Benadryl can all cause tachycardia (rapid heart rate) ...Not that they will, but it's a side effect for some people.
The Flomax is, as you know, for his prostate. Side effects from it can be weakness, chest pain, cough, dizziness (by sometimes causing blood pressure to go too low)
Are you overwhelmed yet?
RHO METFORMIN--for his diabetes ....it's great that he doesn't need insulin. Is his diabetes and blood sugar well controlled?
However,this is a med that can interact with narcotics. That's why I asked earlier why is he on Dilaudid?
It can also interact with APO DUR (thiazide diuretics) and NORVASC (calcium channel blocker), so if his diabetes is unstable it may be because of one of these drugs. if his blood sugar is right on, then I wouldn't worry.
PAXIL has a lot of adverse reactions for some people, including fatigue, rapid heart rate (tachycardia), urinary frequency or hesitation, exacerbation (worsening) of ASTHMA, elevated BLOOD SUGAR, elevated CHOLESTEROL (although the last two are very rare side effects..) As long as his cholesterol and diabetes is being controlled, and his asthma is also not worse on it, don't worry too much.
VENTOLIN- is a bronchodilator for his asthma. Some side effects: what they call a "paradoxical reaction" in that it can actually make the asthma worse.
AVAIR DISKS- another bronchodilator for the asthma... Large doses can aggravate pre-existing diabetes. If your Dad is on a normal dose, and his diabetes is well controlled, then again, not to worry.
By the way, many of these meds can increase blood pressure. Do we know if your father always had normal BP before embarking on these drugs?
What is the pulmonary doctor ( if you have one) saying at this point? If your father's breathing is so compromised that he needs two bronchodilators, plus needs a ventilator at night I'd ask more questions.
ALLOPURINAL- for his gout. Has it worked? Is the gout any better? Just make sure that if he's taking this with APO HYDRO, he should be getting urinalysis and blood tests on a regular basis to make sure his kidney function is A-OK. These two drugs can intereact and adversely affect kidneys.
And lastly, the LIPIDIL- for his cholesterol. It is definitely to be taken WITH MEALS, which I hope the doctor told you guys. Otherwise it will not work as effectively.
His hand shaking sounds like a tremor that probably is a side effect of one or some of the meds. very common. Even on Paxil alone.
My dear Mindtrap, I hope I haven't made things worse by overwhelming you with "possibilities".
The bottom line is, that your gut instinct to take your father somewhere for a complete re-evaluation is right on.
This is an enormous amount of medication for one human body, and for all we know you father doesn't need some of them, or some of them are making things much worse. Or there are ALTERNATIVES that haven't been explored yet.
If money is no object, try to find a Canadian equivalent to the Mayo Clinic...I'd check myself in there so fast I'd look like the Road Runner.
Here is a link to the Mayo Clinic. I know that their Cancer Center has affiliates in two Canadian provinces (which I read somewhere on the site).
I don't know if they have Canadian affiliates for non-cancer issues. Check it out.:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/about/
If you have any more questions or would like me to help you search for something, please don't hesitate to ask!
All my best,
zuzu xxxx
zuzu8
07-21-2003, 02:34 PM
Bumping this up...hoping Mindtrap sees new additions to thread...
mindtrap
07-21-2003, 08:04 PM
I can't thank you enough zuzu8 for your response. I have spoken with my fathers doctor and he didn't even know that my Dad spent every day in bed. I guess my father neglected to tell him everything that was going on. It seems that my Father is also having some major psychological problems as well. My Fathers doctors says there is no way that he should be staying in bed all day, that his health is not so bad that he can't live a normal life; Yet When I asked the doctor to start taking him off some of his meds as this is what is making him tired, he says that he needs those meds... Well after a little more research I found out what the shakes in his hand are. He is breaking out into sweats at the same time his hand is shaking... He's going through withdrawl from the pain killers and I guess from what you said about his pain killers being a Narcotic it makes sense. My Father is taking too much of his pain killers; More than what the doctor told him to.
So as you can see there are many things that my father needs looked over. I have researched that Mayo clinic and went to the link that you posted for me. I will be giving them a call. I haven't had any luck with finding a Canadian counter part but hopefully they will point me in the right direction.
Thanks again zuzu8. I appreciate all the time and effort you took to reply to my post.
Thanks
Mindtrap
So as you can see there are many things that my father needs looked over. I have researched that Mayo clinic and went to the link that you posted for me. I will be giving them a call. I haven't had any luck with finding a Canadian counter part but hopefully they will point me in the right direction.
Thanks again zuzu8. I appreciate all the time and effort you took to reply to my post.
Thanks
Mindtrap
pattiann38
07-21-2003, 09:53 PM
ssss
zuzu8
07-22-2003, 01:48 AM
Hi Mindtrap- Interesting....perhaps your dad inadvertently is over-medicating himself and it certainly wouldn't be difficult to make mistakes with so many meds to keep track of. I STILL question the Benadryl and if if his pain is so severe (and he doesn't have cancer) the fact that he needs such a POTENT narcotic as Dilaudid raises huge red flags about how his pain was allowed to progress so far as to have to go that routein the first place.
He may be over-medicated for some things and under-medicated for others.
I'm so glad you're going to check out the world-renowned Mayo Clinic. It's supposed to be a non-profit charitable Institution, and perhaps that means that certain "cases" will be taken for little fee if one "qualifies" or something. Not sure. It can't be totaly free. But it would be a perfect place for someone like your father, and if you can get him in there, you'd have a team of specialists all working together to get him on track and back to a good quality if life.
Good luck...If you ever get a chance, please come back to us and let us know how you and your Dad are doing....
zuzu xx
[This message has been edited by zuzu8 (edited 07-22-2003).]
He may be over-medicated for some things and under-medicated for others.
I'm so glad you're going to check out the world-renowned Mayo Clinic. It's supposed to be a non-profit charitable Institution, and perhaps that means that certain "cases" will be taken for little fee if one "qualifies" or something. Not sure. It can't be totaly free. But it would be a perfect place for someone like your father, and if you can get him in there, you'd have a team of specialists all working together to get him on track and back to a good quality if life.
Good luck...If you ever get a chance, please come back to us and let us know how you and your Dad are doing....
zuzu xx
[This message has been edited by zuzu8 (edited 07-22-2003).]
JJ52
07-22-2003, 09:33 AM
If your father has a slipped disc, you should consider seeing a chiropractor. The pinched nerve may be feeding an organ like the pancreas, or thyroid. The nerve would attrophy over a period of time and the organ fail to function.
Do a web search for subluxation. That is the term chiropractors use of a slipped disc. Good luck.
Do a web search for subluxation. That is the term chiropractors use of a slipped disc. Good luck.
ilovesunshine
07-24-2003, 08:22 PM
I have a question for you. Is your dad just depressed from his health problems or is he suffering from depression as well??
tagger
07-24-2003, 08:38 PM
My father is on many meds as well. I believe he is up to app 25-30 pills a day and they need to be taken at specific times. He has had incidents where he took a pill before breakfast instead of after and had to be rushed to the hospital!
Now he has what is called a "dosette". The pharmacy makes up a package in which each dose of each med is in a separate compartment with the times written it it. He gets a week at a time. 7 dosettes.
At his age (82 yrs) or any age for that matter, taking so many meds throughout the day can become confusing. My mother was trying to keep track but the dosette seems to do the trick.
Some of the meds do make him tired. This is very unfortunate because he was always very active and "scorned" naps, but now what seems to work is a nap at a set time for 2 hours every day. That way he's not snoozing on and off all day and knows that he will get "relief" from his tiredness at 2:00, the get up and carry on. Of course it's not set in stone. If he has "overdone it" as he sometimes will (still trying to carry on as he did 20 yrs ago) the nap may be earlier or longer, but generally this seems to work for him.
Luckily my Mother is still with us and is quite strict with him about his rests.
Hope you get the help you need with your Dad. Treasure your time with him!...Tagger
Now he has what is called a "dosette". The pharmacy makes up a package in which each dose of each med is in a separate compartment with the times written it it. He gets a week at a time. 7 dosettes.
At his age (82 yrs) or any age for that matter, taking so many meds throughout the day can become confusing. My mother was trying to keep track but the dosette seems to do the trick.
Some of the meds do make him tired. This is very unfortunate because he was always very active and "scorned" naps, but now what seems to work is a nap at a set time for 2 hours every day. That way he's not snoozing on and off all day and knows that he will get "relief" from his tiredness at 2:00, the get up and carry on. Of course it's not set in stone. If he has "overdone it" as he sometimes will (still trying to carry on as he did 20 yrs ago) the nap may be earlier or longer, but generally this seems to work for him.
Luckily my Mother is still with us and is quite strict with him about his rests.
Hope you get the help you need with your Dad. Treasure your time with him!...Tagger