This is somewhat off-topic, but I've been thinking about it lately. I was pretty much a religious person BB (before bipolar), but having been dealing with this illness it's starting to make more sense to me that there isn't a god. Because if there is, and he sees my suffering and how many times I've prayed for something good to happen to my mental health and nothing has so far, it strikes me that he's pretty rotten, to see people in such misery and can't be bothered to lift a finger to help them, even though he's supposedly all powerful. The god equation just doesn't add up for me, but the atheist one is starting to make sense, i.e. that this is the result of random genetic factors caused simply by heredity and/or mutations, and that it has no inherent meaning and neither does suffering through it. And for sure I would way rather just not exist after death than have to deal with BP for ever and ever or with a God who seems to get off on torturing people in hell. These thoughts are a big change for me, and it got me to wondering how other people's faith has coped (or not) with this stinkin' disease. Any thoughts?
-wobbly :cool:

Wobbly...I understand how you feel. In darkness it is hard to believe in light, but I believe and have experienced that, yes, there is light, within and all around us. One need not call it God and I am not selling any fill-in-the-blank Anonymous program here. Just my own knowledge.

I believe hell is on earth and is created by the discord already here, not interjected by a supreme being. Through reincarnations, we evolve spiritually. But it isn't a linear progression. Hard to explain how I envision it.

When my 8 year old cousin died, when I was 5 I asked my father where she was. To comfort me, he said "in Heaven" (he is agnostic). In my mind's eye, I saw infinite windows in the night sky and knew she wasn't floating around up there but was all right.

At the age of 13 I was very bitter and awoke one night to see glowing praying hands. I didn't do drugs and was not hallucinating. An inner voice, neither male nor female but somehow both told me not to be afraid. I raised my pillow to see the Bible with the words Holy Bible in bright gold letters. After that, I tried reading it, but never got past the begats, so to speak. Was too angry, yet there was always some deep connection to a deep power in the universe.

Once, when riding a bus in NY, I had my eyes closed and recalled my brother yanking the head off my favorite doll as a child. I momentarily felt the distress I felt at that time. Again, that soothing voice said "As that pain was to you then, so shall this pain be to you later." Meaning, this suffering will all be in the wink of an eye and we will take only what we have learned.

Don't mean to seem self-righteous or Joan of Arc here, but having some kind of faith can make such a wonderful difference in life, and it does not have to be fundamentalist, "blind" faith.

I'm a little overwhelmed by how much I want to say on this subject...
But for starters, I had manic periods that became more & more psychotic as time went on. The last one was Waaaay over the top.
But I do remember making Connections, absolutely deep spiritual & cosmic ones between me, God, the universe & even the raindrop that fell on my eyelashes. Infinity was just the beginning.

I read a book called 'Saints and Madmen' by Russell Shorto - the theory being that chemicals (even the one's that are out of whack in our brains) can have spiritual dimensions. Not just peyote, etc. It made a big impression on me, and made me think about what we know about some of the more "fervent" of saints.

I think that one of the hardest things to deal with is "why" there is disease. I like to think that I am actually fortunate. I see Christopher Reeve in the best of spirits altho he is a quadraplegic, I see joyful souls in the little bodies of those with Down's Syndrome.

I think it's what we make of it - and what we teach others about themselves when they are faced with the stigma they place on us.

Wonderful topic, let's agree to disagree if it comes to that!
:angel:

I totally stopped believing in God when I became bipolar. It didn't make sense that he'd let someone he supposedly loved suffer so much.
Then something happened.
My mom's friend from church called one day extremely excited saying that God had told her about her ill child (me) and that if I was to listen to this one hymn every day, I'd be healed. Now normally I'd be like, well get her to a hospital or on some drugs, she's hallucinating. But she's got a track record. Two things. One I don't know. The other, she was told by God that her infertile friend was pregnant and she was.
Now that I listen to that hymn once a day, I am fine. It's a little superstitious but hey, if it works, it works. Sometimes I stop listening to it and stuff starts to slide. Maybe it really is working. I don't know. But my faith has been partially restored. I still have a lot of unanswered questions.
Kristina :wave:

I try to have faith, because sometimes it seems that that is the only thing that keeps me going. Before I was diagnosed with Bi-polar,and 9 years before that when I was misdiagnosed with schizophrenia and had ect shock treatments forced on me and too much medication at 17 , and many hospitalizations ,I almost gave it up, I don't go to a church or adhere to what one person might preach, but I went to different churches when I was growing up. I know different people believe in different things, I just believe in my own faith in my heart, and it helps me deal with my disorder. And I hope all people have some kind of faith and strength in helping them through hard times with bi-polar and other illnesses,

My faith has helped me in all aspects of my life, and especially dealing with my illness. :)

I do not believe God "did this to me", or that I'm being 'punished' in some way just because I have been diagnosed with manic-depressive illness. This is just my life to live out... Everyone has something to deal with...

I do know, speaking for myself, that having faith in a Higher Power has helped me tremendously as I live each day. The more I rely on my faith and prayer, the more 'answers' I find, and the easier it has been for me to cope with the erratic nature of this illness. ;) When I least expect it, I will discover a new medication that is working well, or I'll come across a new coping mechanism that helps me handle myself better. Even when I'm in the darkest depression times, I find that prayer can be uplifting for me - it can help me feel less helpless and/or hopeless.

I agree with jorob - "having some kind of faith can make such a wonderful difference in life" It sure makes a positive difference in MINE!!! :angel: God Bless!

I used to be very active in the catholic, but I have lost faith I probably have not stepped foot in the church for a year. I have no faith I will ever be able to function anymore.

Keep your head up whisky dear, sometimes it seems that way doesn't it. It'll get better. I know you are probably tired of hearing that but it's true. There must be a LITTLE light at the end of the tunnel? Feel better!
Kristina :wave:

I don't believe a person has to be affiliated with any particular 'church', or any specific 'religion' either, to have a strong faith. In my mind, 'faith' and organized religion (churches) are two very different concepts!

My 'faith' has become even stronger in recent years although I haven't been a member of a church, or even attended any church regularly, for several years now.

I also believe that the power of our thoughts has a lot to do with how we live our lives... I truly believe that if a person thinks negatively (something like Whiskey said - "I have no faith I will ever be able to function anymore."), then they will likely have negative events in their life! By the same token, I believe that if a person has more positive thoughts they will bring positive events to themselves instead. I know it sounds 'simple' and maybe even 'corny', but I've seen it work just that way!! It sure has been that way for me, and for others I know too!

I believe in using affirmations to bring about more positive energy in my life! Saying things like "I can" - "I will" - "I am worthy" - "I deserve better" -- you get the idea... Doing all of this seems to actually surround me with more positive feelings, and I have learned that it's a lot nicer to feel that way, than feeling the way I used to by thinking all the negative stuff.... :)

I wish you all the best -- and a positive outlook can be the best gift you can give yourself! :bouncing:

Hello,

I'm not bi-polar, but have dealt some with what is probably an OCD shadow syndrome and anxiety attacks. In any case, I think I can relate to having a hard time finding out that at least part of my mind was far from being under my own control. But I do still feel like there is a "me" in there, too.

It makes sense to me of the Scriptural teaching about us having treasure in earthen vessels, or St. Paul's discussion in 1 Corinthians 15 about how we begin as physical bodies and end up as spiritual bodies. We are creatures. Made of matter, but formed in the image of God. So there are always two sides to us down here. In our creatureliness, we do seem subject to a lot of randomness. And that does seem unrelenting and unfair. But it is not a punishment. (And it does not last forever. Bi-polar disorder will not be with us in heaven.)

The Christian teaching is that evil is allowed to continue for the sake of mercy. That sounds a bit strange, but think of it. If God had decided to wipe out all evil at some time in the distant past, none of us would have been born. If God were in the business of preventing all evil with his pure power, the human race would have ended at the Fall of Man. Some ask, then can't he just prevent some of the evil? I think the answer is that he does. But where he does not, we have to expect that there may be a deep wisdom we cannot now see in play. And one that has mercy as its motivation.

The god equation does not work if you take the world as you see it as plan A. As if this were the creation in its ultimate final state. Of course that would be horrendous! But the promise is that God will bring good out of the evil he has allowed.

I am also comforted by the fact that according to Christian teaching, at the crucifixion, God the Son voluntarily suffered the punishment for all evil that has ever taken place. I would think that for this to work, he had to suffer the equivalent of all the pain that has ever been unjustly inflicted on people. If he thought it was worth it, the good must be worth valuing.

Granted, this is something to take on faith. But the picture is not as bleak as the "God getting off on torturing people in hell" where that is stated of God as if he had never suffered himself. As if it were not limited by empathy. When you picture God, picture a Man with nail-printed hands.

Some of this is academic theology. But for me, it makes a big difference in how I picture it all working. The problem of evil is a bigger problem if God never got himself involved in our world. I am moved by the fact that when he did get involved, he allowed terrible things to happen to himself in order to overcome them. It might shed a different light on his not using his omnipotence to change everything for you here and now. He did not do that for himself, so I don't think it's meanness.

Hope this helps.


Ranger

I have a hard time keeping my faith I think if there was a GOD why would he make us (me) suffer pains of hell. Someone told me if I wanted to die I was praying to the wrong guy I should be praying to the devil.

The people that bug me are the ones that say, "God never gives you more than you can bear." Yeah right! If that were true, no one would have ever committed suicide.

I just about agree with all of you. I was basically raised in church on and off so I had a good back ground of it. Ive done all the bad things that you can think of in my life and then been the nicest person in the world. I truly know that there is a god. I dont have all the awnsers too all the questions about why this and that...but I have heard that he allows us to go through this so that we may get closer to him. My life has been crazy but half of it was my own fault. Ive made some pretty poor choices...(i guess thats cuz im bipolar....and because I was young) now that im the ripe old age of 26..lol ive come to learn that life is what you make it. You can sit and feel sorry for your self or you can become a testimony to others with problems like ours. I still am bipolar...and my disease sometimes puts off going to church...(procrastinator) but god is out there doin the best he can to fight off all the demons that are attacking all of us....I hope you all have a great holiday and try and think more positivly about your situation...xoxo

This is somewhat off-topic, but I've been thinking about it lately. I was pretty much a religious person BB (before bipolar), but having been dealing with this illness it's starting to make more sense to me that there isn't a god. Because if there is, and he sees my suffering and how many times I've prayed for something good to happen to my mental health and nothing has so far, it strikes me that he's pretty rotten, to see people in such misery and can't be bothered to lift a finger to help them, even though he's supposedly all powerful. The god equation just doesn't add up for me, but the atheist one is starting to make sense, i.e. that this is the result of random genetic factors caused simply by heredity and/or mutations, and that it has no inherent meaning and neither does suffering through it. And for sure I would way rather just not exist after death than have to deal with BP for ever and ever or with a God who seems to get off on torturing people in hell. These thoughts are a big change for me, and it got me to wondering how other people's faith has coped (or not) with this stinkin' disease. Any thoughts?
-wobbly :cool:

I too know what you mean! 2 years ago, I gave birth to my wonderful daughter and the very same day became seriously depressed. That should have been the greatest day of my life but ended up being the most frightening. I suffered with severe Post Pardum depression for approx. 15 months until I got some help. Right before my daughter turned one and finally sleeping through the night, I awoke to a man in my kitchen robbing us at 3:45 am. I became so full of fear and panic that I couldn't cope. It sent me into a much deeper depression that I have ever felt. That has been over a year now, and I still can't cope. I have recently been diagnosed with BP and don't really know what to think. My faith in God has allways been a very strong one, but for some reason, I can't pray to Him in the way that I used to, and feel a disconnection to Him. I know that He still exisists and will allways be a part of my life, but I frequently question why He would allow this to happen to such a good person. One whose life if complete and filled with so much blessing. I wonder if I have done something and this is my punishment or what?!?!? :confused: but keep some sort of faith in your heart. Know that this is a sickness that we can all beat!!! (I hope) :( :) If you need anything, I will be thinking good thoughts for you!
Kick Pick

i am by no means a "religeous" person, but i do believe in god, and i also belive that things happen for reasons, and fingers shouldnt be pointed, nor should you blame anyone, be it an human being or supreme being for a diagnosis fo bi polar disorder. some extremely famous and wonderful people were bi polar. there are many famous artists, writers, etc who were bi polar---and not even medicated for it. i, as a creative person, from observation in my college classes (all fairly small) the most creative work came from people with emotional problems such as depression and manic depression. so its not necessairily a curse. dont blame.

take care of yourselves, and find what you are good at!!!

Being diagnosed with bipolar has totally changed my spirituality. Before I became sick, I very much believed in a god and believed that life had rhyme and reason. But then my manias came with psychosis full of religious delusions. The religious delusions were so strong and seemed so mystical. During the psychosis I went to a christian church and 10 people laid their hands on my to exorcise the demons that I believed were attacking me. And then I was referred to a couple who I went to their home and they had their hands on me for 3 hours "exorcising the demons". So, now that I've come to terms with my illness, it's like I have an aversion to religion. Thinking how those people further reinforced my delusions by telling me they were true makes me want to be far far far away from any type of religion. And as far as faith in "god", I don't know if I believe in it anymore. Since I've taken medications, I've become more grounded and logical to the point of almost being cynical.

Please allow me to put my 2 cents worth in. I have been a Christian for about 25 odd years. Yes, I have heard many well-meaning folks say just do this or that and you will be cured. I recall some minister a long time ago say “put your hand on the TV screen.” How absurd can one get?
Now I do believe that God heals us and sustains us. The how is just up to him. Sometimes it is through the meds, surgeries, therapy, time (colds), plus hundreds of other ways, and at times, we must endure. The endure is the hard one. I have ulcerative colitis and enduring it is unbearable at times. However, God said in his word that “my grace is sufficient for you.”
We all need to stop looking for the quick fix and depend on him for the permanent one that lies ahead.

I look at it his way, that God gives everyone in life a purpose. Yes we have a disease that we all hate, we all stay medicated (which I hate), and we have to deal with it for the rest of our lives. This sounds terribly unfair that God would do this to great people. However ask yourself this, how different do you see life? You and many others are probably very creative in some way. You affect so many people because you are different. History is a constant repeater, most of the greatest artist, poet's, writters and educators that are so well known today suffered from bi-polar or some form of major depression. They have affected so many lives because of this terrible disease. Did they know they were affecting lives then, no they probably didn't. So I know God seems mean to give us this terrible disease but it does have a purpose. You do see life different from others and I bet you share it in some way to make a difference. Hang in there, if you don't see it today you will later.