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austin4
11-18-2003, 01:13 PM
I'm continually amazed by alternative medicene. Found out yesterday, altho not seriously high my cholesterol is out of normal range. The bad cholesterol is fairly bad. Anyone know of herbs that will reduce this in conjunction w/ a low fat diet? The conventional meds they prescribe for lowering cholesterol are bad for the liver...not an option. Anyone know of something? Thanks :)

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HappySenior
11-18-2003, 03:47 PM
I'm continually amazed by alternative medicene. Found out yesterday, altho not seriously high my cholesterol is out of normal range. The bad cholesterol is fairly bad. Anyone know of herbs that will reduce this in conjunction w/ a low fat diet? The conventional meds they prescribe for lowering cholesterol are bad for the liver...not an option. Anyone know of something? Thanks :)


:angel:
My cholesterol stayed in a very dangerous range of 312 for years. Once it dropped down into the 200"s but shot back up.
I started (reluctantly) on Lipator 40mg.
I hated taking it. Here is what happened.
I developed cancer.(not due to the Lipator) I refused chemo and radiation and started eating all raw vegetables, no animal and no dairy. Also, juicing, carrot and apple every 2 hours when awake.(I had other supplements too).
It took me 3 months and I am now cancer free and my cholesterol is 145.
All my tests came back NORMAL.
Another secret is to eat oatmeal every morning. You must stop ALL dairy products and NO animal products at all.
I hope this helps you........ :wave:

austin4
11-19-2003, 02:19 PM
:angel:
My cholesterol stayed in a very dangerous range of 312 for years. Once it dropped down into the 200"s but shot back up.
I started (reluctantly) on Lipator 40mg.
I hated taking it. Here is what happened.
I developed cancer.(not due to the Lipator) I refused chemo and radiation and started eating all raw vegetables, no animal and no dairy. Also, juicing, carrot and apple every 2 hours when awake.(I had other supplements too).
It took me 3 months and I am now cancer free and my cholesterol is 145.
All my tests came back NORMAL.
Another secret is to eat oatmeal every morning. You must stop ALL dairy products and NO animal products at all.
I hope this helps you........ :wave:


Thanks for sharing that and Congrats....that is wonderful. Yes , I've had my gb removed and clearly that in conjunction w/ the rising cholesterol screams for major diet changes like what you are talking about. Thanks again :)

wackytoposthere
11-20-2003, 02:01 AM
Garlic will help lower blood pressure and help remove plaque from arterial walls,
thus lowering cholesterol.

:eek:

HappySenior
11-20-2003, 12:01 PM
Congratulations to you! You are an inspiration to everyone.
You are enlightenment personified.
Cheers to you,
Liz :wave:


Thank you Liz, my husband and I have a ministery now. We seek out cancer patients and volunteer to go into their homes and juice for them and fix raw foods. Set them up on a program to get them started or go every day if we are needed....no charge. We had to start from scratch, so I know how hard it is. :angel:

Farmer Sue Tickle
11-21-2003, 11:34 AM
Anyone know of herbs that will reduce this in conjunction w/ a low fat diet?

On top of garlic and oats, avocado will help fix arterial walls (therefore lower cholesterol) so don't stay away from all fats. All non-processed fats are essential (especially saturated ones for assimilating fat-soluble vitamins A and D) - it's just a matter of balance (isn't everything in life? :cool: )

The conventional meds they prescribe for lowering cholesterol are bad for the liver...not an option.Yup, they are, and (at least) one of the manufacturers knows that taking statins depletes co-enzyme Q10 stores. They researched the effects of lowered CoQ10 and guess what? What you get is what's on the back of the plastic statin bottle listed as a side effect.

So a statin-CoQ10 compound was patented back in the early 90s to help secure and lock in the beloved green and black thing. A household name drugs company was assigned the patent but did nothing with it. No compound was marketed, and few physicians were informed. Fast forward 12 years and we still run the risk of muscle and liver damage, all caused (at least as far as we know at this stage) by CoQ10 depletion.

austin4
11-21-2003, 02:39 PM
On top of garlic and oats, avocado will help fix arterial walls (therefore lower cholesterol) so don't stay away from all fats. All non-processed fats are essential (especially saturated ones for assimilating fat-soluble vitamins A and D) - it's just a matter of balance (isn't everything in life? :cool: )

Yup, they are, and (at least) one of the manufacturers knows that taking statins depletes co-enzyme Q10 stores. They researched the effects of lowered CoQ10 and guess what? What you get is what's on the back of the plastic statin bottle listed as a side effect.

So a statin-CoQ10 compound was patented back in the early 90s to help secure and lock in the beloved green and black thing. A household name drugs company was assigned the patent but did nothing with it. No compound was marketed, and few physicians were informed. Fast forward 12 years and we still run the risk of muscle and liver damage, all caused (at least as far as we know at this stage) by CoQ10 depletion.

Thanks all. This info backs up what I've found out from researching it. Have what i think is a really good Herbal compound at my health food store, so gonna give that a whirl. I do know that about fats, limiting myself to olive oil and flax oil for now, thankfully I love avocados. I also talked to someone who had truly amazing results w/ Red Yeast Rice. I opted for the other compound for now, but his cholesterol dropped dramatically. :)

junkbondtrader
11-22-2003, 06:30 PM
definitely stop consuming animal products, so you don't have any cholesterol intake. as a few people have said, garlic can help clear plaque around your heart, etc. and foods w/ good fats (omegas 6 and esp. 3) are also good. these can be found in walnuts and other nuts and seeds, avocado, flax (ground seeds are good because you get some fiber and lignins, but the oil is as good for omega 3), and soy products like tofu.

i've also had the cholesterol issue and had my gallbladder taken out with over 200 stones. going vegan made me feel SO much better and got my cholesterol back in a healthy range.

Farmer Sue Tickle
11-23-2003, 06:28 PM
All, I have to go out on a limb here and challenge popular notions of cholesterol.

Only one quarter of serum cholesterol comes from dietary input, so limiting the amout of cholesterol you eat will have minimal impact. Cholesterol is regulated, like most things except iron, according to need. So if there is arterial damage, the liver will manufacture more and more cholesterol, irrespective of dietary input. Conversely, it is routinely excreted in a properly functioning body but reabsorbed if not eliminated efficiently.

Cholesterol and heart disease was a shadow of its current self 100 years ago when we ate much more animal fat than we do today. It’s also completely unknown, now, in most of Africa where I expect they eat according to long-established traditions that prominantly feature animal products. Cholesterol, I believe, is more a product of latter-day lifestyle, homogenised milk and hydrogenated fats being just two suspects identified so far.

I imagine those that learn they have high cholsterol and reduce their animal intake probably make other sweeping lifestyle changes too, and that it’s the latter that makes inroads to the excess cholesterol, not the former.

junkbondtrader
11-24-2003, 11:49 PM
***"Only one quarter of serum cholesterol comes from dietary input, so limiting the amout of cholesterol you eat will have minimal impact."

---It may be true that dietary input only accounts for so much of serum cholesterol, but one quarter is not an insignificant portion, and it is the only portion over which we have complete control. So, it seems logical, that if high cholesterol is a problem for us, we first modify where we can do so easily(i.e. by reducing or eliminating our intake of dietary cholesterol- which is ONLY present in animal products).

***"Cholesterol and heart disease was a shadow of its current self 100 years ago when we ate much more animal fat than we do today."

---I STRONGLY disagree with this statement. We consume MUCH MORE animal fat and animal products now as a society than we did 100 or more years ago. And high cholesterol and heart disease have only become more widespread accordingly. Our general affluence, and our ability to preserve meats and dairy products have only relatively recently made them commonplace dietary staples for Americans. Previously, they had been primarily enjoyed by those of the upper classes and were seen as a symbol of wealth and prosperity. As was being overweight. (Coincidence? I think not.) For the majority of people, meat was consumed in limited amounts, and the diet was primarily composed of vegetables and grains. Most people simply could not afford to eat animal products as regularly as most people do now.

***"It’s also completely unknown, now, in most of Africa where I expect they eat according to long-established traditions that prominantly feature animal products."

--- Good try, but no. Although there are certainly hunters and native traditions, Africa is poor, and does not have anything remotely resembling the kind of animal agriculture we have in the US. Their farming is largely subsistence farming, ours is large scale and for profit. HUGE difference. Yes, they do eat meat. But because of the economy, the soil conditions, tradition, etc. they consume fewer animal products than we do. Staples of african food are yams and sweet potatoes, lentils, okra, nuts, peppers, chickpeas, pumpkins, bitter greens, couscous, etc. And yes, they also have fewer problems with cholesterol and heart disease, but it's not because they eat MORE meat! Quite the opposite.(on a side note: They also have almost NO osteoporosis, and dairy products are almost completely excluded from the diet. Their lower protein intake -due to less animal product consumption- reduces their need for dietary calcium to meet the requirement for healthy bones and teeth, as excess protein limits the absorption of calcium).


***"Cholesterol, I believe, is more a product of latter-day lifestyle, homogenised milk and hydrogenated fats being just two suspects identified so far."

The process by which milk is homogenized doesn't have anything to do with the cholesterol in milk, nor with how our body produces cholesterol when we consume it. Also, hydrogenated fats are from chemically altered plant oils, and as I've said, plants contain no cholesterol whatsoever- period. (Cholesterol is a hormone produced by animals exclusively).

***"I imagine those that learn they have high cholsterol and reduce their animal intake probably make other sweeping lifestyle changes too, and that it’s the latter that makes inroads to the excess cholesterol, not the former."

---I can only speak for myself, but I made no sweeping changes at all other than completely eliminating animal products and I am much much healthier as a result.

Farmer Sue Tickle
11-25-2003, 01:32 PM
Interesting discussion; I'll try to keep down the SHOUTING and maybe we can learn more from each other ;)

*** but one quarter is not an insignificant portion, and it is the only portion over which we have complete control ***

And there's the rub. You can have control over the whole amount of cholesterol by adopting the right lifestyle choices. Cholesterol, like firemen, are only caused to the scene of a fire if they are needed. No fire/arterial damage, no firemen/excess cholesterol. Of course some cholesterol is needed for sex hormon conjugation, cell membrane regulation etc. Conversely, if you limit all dietary cholesterol input, your liver will still manufacture it if it's needed to repair arterial walls, so limiting dietary input will have little impact if any at all.

***For the majority of people, meat was consumed in limited amounts, and the diet was primarily composed of vegetables and grains. Most people simply could not afford to eat animal products as regularly as most people do now***

What do you think about today's increasing population who have embraced the Atkins diet, eat boatloads more animal products and report lowered cholesterol and trigylcerides? Of course they will have cut out refined starches, which is another discussion, but there is still the increase in animal product and decrease
in contemporary health metrics, nonetheless.

***Good try, but no. ***

Was it obvious I was trying? :rolleyes:

***The process by which milk is homogenized doesn't have anything to do with the cholesterol in milk ***

Absolutely.

***nor with how our body produces cholesterol when we consume it.***

Here again is the rub. You don't have to eat cholesterol to produce cholesterol. Yes there is no cholesterol in hydrogenated fats, but they are damaging to the heart and cholesterol is produced to help fix it. Cholesterol is a hormone but plays many roles. For the role homogenised milk plays in artherosclerosis, try some research into xanthine oxidase.

***I can only speak for myself, but I made no sweeping changes at all other than completely eliminating animal products and I am much much healthier as a result***

Well that's a great result, however you got there!

junkbondtrader
11-25-2003, 04:07 PM
hey, i just read your response and re-read my own post, and i feel like i owe you an apology. i didn't mean to be rude, but i realize now that i came across that way. i made the post after something upsetting had happened in my personal life and so i was a bit edgy and should have been more careful, but wasn't. i stand by my opinions, but i should have expressed them differently.

i am going to do some internet research later tonight and look up xanthine oxidase, as you recommended. i know nothing about this particular thing and i'm curious.

again, sorry i came off like a tool. but i do wish you the very best in managing your health no matter how you decide to do it.

Farmer Sue Tickle
11-26-2003, 01:32 PM
junk, no worries and your openness is very admirable!

On xanthine oxidase, try the online version of the Well Being Journal and the page entitled Homogenized Dairy





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