Well, all I have to say is this.

I went out this saturday night and had a great night, and was fine the next morning, and I believe it was all due to me rigorously applying my CBT exercises over that period!

Normally I would go out and feel anxious and spaced out, and then wake up and have a horrible day experiencing severe derealisation.

I haven't cured myself yet, and I am still getting anxious, but I think I've had a mini-break through. I'm starting to see that there are still a lot of things I'm worrying about that are distortions of my thoughts. I had kind of put them to the side thinking they were legitamate worries, but I'm now starting to see the light.

I think I'm getting there. I would normally not say something like that in fear of jinxing myself, but I can see that's just another negative attitude in itself.

CBY and meds is the best way to get better, IMO
CBT takes time, also we all have bad memories of anxiety from the past
there are books on overcoming worry, many people literally worry themselves sick

WooHoo!!! Way to go.

Nix the word CURE....and think of it as a process of learning..or a work in progress... You could never jinx yourself, just learn from each experience. We all have 20/20 hindsight. And we all use it effectively to punish ourselves.....just think of what you COULD (not should) do the next time. Life isn't a script, eventually it will become naturally and automatic just as the worry and anxiety has for such a long time.

You never know what can bring old feelings and reactions to the surface -- you'll least expect it when it does. Don't get down on yourself when it does.

Be kind to yourself when events don't happen as you expect (best to not expect)...remember, you cannot control others and what they think, say and do.

I've not had anxiety attacks for years...but today as I was getting ready to go out to meet a friend for supper, I checked myself out in the mirror and the resurgence of those flutters coursed through my body so fast. I was taken aback by the feelings and just breathed it away. I don't want to know what it was and didn't care....15 seconds and it was gone and I was off to enjoy the visit.

I'm still learning daily and still am amazed by how well I do, yet puzzled by those feelings when they come.

I've had such a good end of this year, it's almost scary....but I'm going with it. It's been so long since I've felt this good, I deserve it. Actually, I'm excited for the new year. Now that's a first.....usually, it's I can't wait for the old year to begin. I see change!!!! :D

Congratulations for being excited about your progress...please give yourself a pat on the back for me.

Enjoy your New Year's Eve....whatever you're doing. Best in the new year!! Seems you have lots to look forward to.

quincy

I can't agree with you. I haven't been in CBT for long but hell, the number of panic attacks I've had have gone way way up, and my symptoms have gotten a helluva lot worse. Its only benefit so far has been that it has made me more positive. But the anxiety is stronger.

Hi junglemonkey,

Interesting process isn't it?? I can understand what you are meaning....but have a question or two.

What are you feeling more positive about?

When you said your anxiety is stronger, do you mean that you're thinking about it more -- like what you have to do and remember, or "I'm never going to remember what I have to do when I have an anxiety attack"....etc.?

Bringing the irrational thoughts to a conscious level can take a while to even recognise what one is thinking. That in itself can cause anxiety.

The whole process of anxiety to become an automatic response takes a while, especially when we start to use it in more and more situations...and becomes an effective defense mechanism for many, many years. It takes a while to unlearn the behaviour and replace it with rational thoughts. While using the rational thoughts on a conscious level, it will take a while before it becomes automatic in all situations-- therefore not needing that defence mechanism any longer.

Best to you,
quincy

I'm a lot more positive, not about my anxiety, but just about life in general. And I probably did that myself. I've been really working hard to get my confidence levels up to a good standard by going out and doing work experience and pushing myself a little more socially, and now I see that people aren't out to get me (not all of them anyway :-/ ) I'm much more confident and therefore more positive about my future. I'd be living a great life if I could get rid of the anxiety. In my first CBT session, my therapist told me there was a very good chance I would never get rid of it. lol.

I just don't seem to have made any progress. My symptoms are as strong as ever. the mechanisms I've been taught just seem to have little or no effect.

I'm a lot more positive, not about my anxiety, but just about life in general. And I probably did that myself. I've been really working hard to get my confidence levels up to a good standard by going out and doing work experience and pushing myself a little more socially, and now I see that people aren't out to get me (not all of them anyway :-/ ) I'm much more confident and therefore more positive about my future. I'd be living a great life if I could get rid of the anxiety. In my first CBT session, my therapist told me there was a very good chance I would never get rid of it. lol.

I just don't seem to have made any progress. My symptoms are as strong as ever. the mechanisms I've been taught just seem to have little or no effect.

Jungle,
What exercises have you learned in CBT as I'm a little skeptical of whether your therapist is a true CBT therapist? Glad to hear you are feeling more positive regardless and hope you get your panic under control as CBT has made a world of difference in my life and NO panic attacks since I finished my CBT group.
Take care.

Well, all I have to say is this.

I went out this saturday night and had a great night, and was fine the next morning, and I believe it was all due to me rigorously applying my CBT exercises over that period!

Normally I would go out and feel anxious and spaced out, and then wake up and have a horrible day experiencing severe derealisation.

I haven't cured myself yet, and I am still getting anxious, but I think I've had a mini-break through. I'm starting to see that there are still a lot of things I'm worrying about that are distortions of my thoughts. I had kind of put them to the side thinking they were legitamate worries, but I'm now starting to see the light.

I think I'm getting there. I would normally not say something like that in fear of jinxing myself, but I can see that's just another negative attitude in itself.

Monky-

That's GREAT news! It sounds like you are starting to see the glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel just like I did. Probably still a few bumps in the road but you are certainly on your way and remember the more you practice and incorporate the tools into your life the better and more lasting the results :bouncing:
I still use the TEA from and the counter all the time just to keep fresh and in practice :D
Happy New Year!

Billy

Billy7772,

I don't know what my therapist is, just know she's a "nurse therapist" apparently. The techniques I've learned have been close to useless in most situations. Ones like distraction, talking yourself through it, "reverse it" etc.

Exercises? Well I'm not sure what you mean by that but I kept a timetable of my anxiety for a long time but now we've moved onto pain "timetable" because they feel they need to get my pain under control so I can actually live life. I did a 33-page self-esteem exercise. Not really much else other than talking about triggers and stuff.

Billy7772,

I don't know what my therapist is, just know she's a "nurse therapist" apparently. The techniques I've learned have been close to useless in most situations. Ones like distraction, talking yourself through it, "reverse it" etc.

Exercises? Well I'm not sure what you mean by that but I kept a timetable of my anxiety for a long time but now we've moved onto pain "timetable" because they feel they need to get my pain under control so I can actually live life. I did a 33-page self-esteem exercise. Not really much else other than talking about triggers and stuff.

Hi Jungle,

I just responded to your counter question a second ago in another post :)
Based on what you said in this reply it does not sound like CBT. Distraction is actually opposite of the principles of CBT! The basis of CBT is the TEA (Thought Error Analysis) form. You need to learn to catch your automatic thoughts that are likely the cause of your troubles, identify the error in thinking you are making in these thoughts and counter it with more accurate thoughts. This is the basis of CBT. The other main tools/exercises are decatastrophising (putting things back in perspective) and the wrist counter. There is not a lot "talk" involved in CBT like other therapies just teaching you tools to help yourself based on the exercises I mentioned here. It takes some work and seems to simple to work at first glance but well worth the effort if you have the stomache for it :bouncing:

Take care!

Hi Jungle,

I just responded to your counter question a second ago in another post :)
Based on what you said in this reply it does not sound like CBT. Distraction is actually opposite of the principles of CBT! The basis of CBT is the TEA (Thought Error Analysis) form. You need to learn to catch your automatic thoughts that are likely the cause of your troubles, identify the error in thinking you are making in these thoughts and counter it with more accurate thoughts. This is the basis of CBT. The other main tools/exercises are decatastrophising (putting things back in perspective) and the wrist counter. There is not a lot "talk" involved in CBT like other therapies just teaching you tools to help yourself based on the exercises I mentioned here. It takes some work and seems to simple to work at first glance but well worth the effort if you have the stomache for it :bouncing:

Take care!

Strange. The psychologist and therapist told me and my parents I would be receiving CBT. My therapist did show me what I would eventually be going onto, and it was 'Irrational thoughts vs rational thoughts' but we have established I'm not good at realising my automatic thoughts.

I've been keeping note of the anxiety I feel, when it occurs, what I did to combat it, how long it lasts etc

Right now we are working on pain management so I can actually live life without being in constant pain.

Sadly now I'm back to being quite derealised and convinced I've screwed up my brain from drugs :(

Hi monkeyfunky,

It's part of the process....reverting back to past behaviours. Kind of like a bad vacation.
One cannot be self-actualised on a constant basis. Life isn't perfect all the time, how boring it would be. Our feelings aren't static, look how we've created such a fantasy world for ourselves through all that anxiety ....;) .....

Give yourself a break. Let yourself believe that (ahem) thought for a short while and get on with other things. Tomorrow is another day, you'll have other thoughts.

Read a good book (not related to psychology)...What kind of books do you like?

Watch a good movie you have on tape or dvd....What movies are in your collection?

Pig out on popcorn or chocolate. :eek: That could heal any woes...and then get back in the saddle and continue on.

Let us know how you feel tomorrow.

quincy :cool:

There seems to be some monkey business happening on this thread :p Hee,hee!!!!



Hi junglemonkey,

It took me ages to "get it", and with other things you are dealing with such as parents and physical pain....don't get in a hurry to understand it all at one time. It can be a long process, but once it starts to make sense..it's amazing and the rest will fall into place much easier. Remember how it was learning how to ride a bike?

I agree with your therapist.....we will always have anxiety, but we will be able to cope with it and be able to end the attacks. Learned behaviour from many years ago won't go away overnight.
Automatic thoughts have to be unlearned and replaced with new ones, that's a two-fold process. Soon the rational thoughts will become automatic.

The best analogy I can think of to compare having automatic thoughts, unlearning them and then replacing them is driving a car. I had a 1992 Mazda 323 5-speed for 8 years. I sold it and purchased a 2000 Golf GL 5-speed. The 323....I drove without having to think about what was where, it was all learned when I got it. After driving it for 8 years (and I drove it A LOT!!), getting used to the Golf was quite difficult. Turning corners took a bit of an extra effort, shifting was different, the seating position was weird, the radio......etc drove me crazy because I had to UNLEARN all the automatic movements from driving the 323 and had to relearn them for my new car. It took over a year, going through all the seasons before I felt really secure in its handling. I love driving...so knowing that car and its handling is important to my experience and safety. I love driving my car.

So, if you've had any experience with driving one car and getting into another and driving...how long do you have to drive before you feel more comfortable with the feel? I can also explain it with riding a horse, dealing with your dog and then someone else's, etc. I hope I haven't confused you further...:confused:

If you can understand what means automatic (which was learned first), recognised then replaced with something else, then the initial automatic unlearned and the replacement to become the automatic....whew, see what I mean? :eek:

You'll do fine, we're all at different levels at the same process.

Let us know how you're doing.

quincy

There seems to be some monkey business happening on this thread :p Hee,hee!!!!



Hi junglemonkey,

It took me ages to "get it", and with other things you are dealing with such as parents and physical pain....don't get in a hurry to understand it all at one time. It can be a long process, but once it starts to make sense..it's amazing and the rest will fall into place much easier. Remember how it was learning how to ride a bike?

I agree with your therapist.....we will always have anxiety, but we will be able to cope with it and be able to end the attacks. Learned behaviour from many years ago won't go away overnight.
Automatic thoughts have to be unlearned and replaced with new ones, that's a two-fold process. Soon the rational thoughts will become automatic.

The best analogy I can think of to compare having automatic thoughts, unlearning them and then replacing them is driving a car. I had a 1992 Mazda 323 5-speed for 8 years. I sold it and purchased a 2000 Golf GL 5-speed. The 323....I drove without having to think about what was where, it was all learned when I got it. After driving it for 8 years (and I drove it A LOT!!), getting used to the Golf was quite difficult. Turning corners took a bit of an extra effort, shifting was different, the seating position was weird, the radio......etc drove me crazy because I had to UNLEARN all the automatic movements from driving the 323 and had to relearn them for my new car. It took over a year, going through all the seasons before I felt really secure in its handling. I love driving...so knowing that car and its handling is important to my experience and safety. I love driving my car.

So, if you've had any experience with driving one car and getting into another and driving...how long do you have to drive before you feel more comfortable with the feel? I can also explain it with riding a horse, dealing with your dog and then someone else's, etc. I hope I haven't confused you further...:confused:

If you can understand what means automatic (which was learned first), recognised then replaced with something else, then the initial automatic unlearned and the replacement to become the automatic....whew, see what I mean? :eek:

You'll do fine, we're all at different levels at the same process.

Let us know how you're doing.

quincy

Hi Quincy,

Great notes and anologies as usual. Happy New year! I have not been around much because the company I work for is having some troubl;es and I'm forced to work long hours right now :( The CBT tools are coming in handy with this added stress though :nono:
Take care :wave:

Thanks again Billy.... HNY to you too!. Good to hear the work stress is handled much more easily with CBT. It's the ginsu knife for life -- cuts through any anxiety! And the best thing is you can carry it with you anywhere and no one will ever know! Bwahhahaha!! :rolleyes: I'm watching too many infomercials methinks??

Hope the weekend allows you time to kick back and enjoy.....looks like you have lots of reply-catching-up to do! ;)

Have a good day.
quincy

Thanks again Billy.... HNY to you too!. Good to hear the work stress is handled much more easily with CBT. It's the ginsu knife for life -- cuts through any anxiety! And the best thing is you can carry it with you anywhere and no one will ever know! Bwahhahaha!! :rolleyes: I'm watching too many infomercials methinks??

Hope the weekend allows you time to kick back and enjoy.....looks like you have lots of reply-catching-up to do! ;)

Have a good day.
quincy

Hi Quincy-

I had to work this weekend :confused: But I have today off :D
Don't imagine I'd be handling this added work stress as well as I have were it not for the CBT tools :bouncing:
I liked your analogy, but think you may want to cut back on your infomercial viewing :nono:

Hope you are well!

So, CBT is probably the best treatment for social anxiety?

i dont know of any psychologists or psychiatrists, which is better?

and are you talking about one on one or in a group?

Hi whatever02,

The reason CBT is good is that it teaches you the tools to deal with anxiety. You are the only one in every situation you are in...and you are the one having the attacks, so why not teach you the tools to use in ANY situation?

I've seen a psychiatrist (he was a word I can't print here -- just use your imagination and probably anything you come up with will do), and it was a bandaid treatment. I felt better going, but knew he wasn't good for me.

I was sent for biofeedback (by the psychiatrist) because of physiological symptoms. I had to go through a screening process and was staggered when the head psychologist said I had serious problems to deal with. He was the first to say it to my face. That was the turning point. The psychologist I saw/see is amazing. I dropped my psychiatrist and continued with the psychologist. He's given me back my life...really! He says it all worked because I was willing to do the work. I had loads of "issues" to deal with. Scary when I look back as to how I was and thought. I still have anxiety but can deal with the attacks within half a minute. I don't even care as to the "why's" anymore.

I wouldn't consider group therapy because I prefer being the centre of attention when dealing with my problems. But, I've always been a one-on-one person. There are too many variables in a group. That's where I'm not willing to share.

I did take Ativan which helped me cope through the anxiety and situations (not a prescribed daily dosage, but when I needed it). I didn't start Effexor XR until just over a year ago to deal with severe depression. The meds were given by my GP.

quincy

So, CBT is probably the best treatment for social anxiety?

i dont know of any psychologists or psychiatrists, which is better?

and are you talking about one on one or in a group?

I'd just like to echo what Quincy had to say as I prefer Psychologists too and most CBT practitioners are psychologists rather than psychiatrists. Groups can be great for some and not so good for others, so that really depends on you. What I like about CBT groups is that they give you a chance to see how the people that are working the hardest at using the tools are having the most success and keep you motivated to try harder. Good luck!