Brianne
02-06-2001, 08:22 PM
Ok I'm going to say what is on my mind. I know 8 people who faithfully visit the homeopath doctors. They have been seeing these doctors for years. I see no improvment on their health. The one person I know has been giong to a herbologist for 20 years now. He was being treated for massive facial swellings. Approximatly 3 swellings per week have occured for this fellow for the past 20 years. He has been told that he is alergic form apples to water. His bills from these visits have grown into the thousands of dollars. 6 months ago he finally gave in and went to the hospital. The doctor put him on a over the counter anti histamine(reactine). He has had two(2) swelling in 6 months and nowheres as sever as before. 3 other gentlemen that I know have died of heart complications. The ironic part is they were all being treated by homopathic doctors to lower colesteral and stuff like that. One of these guys that died said he actually had cancer of the lung and two weeks of visits to his homopathic doctor cured him.(ya right!) A lady I know who was being treated for years for gas and bloating and stuff like that, had to have her gall bladder remover just recently. She claims her bloating and gas problems are gone. The same fellow that was having the facial swellings once went to an iridologist. You should have heard the report that came home with him!! His sons and daughters were ready to start his funeral arrangments. And what really makes me mad is that this same fellow that had the swellings was once told by his homopathic doctor that his swelling problem was being caused by a childhood memory. Well I would like to believe that there are other alternatives that really work. But I think for now if I step on a rusty nail I will go to the hospital and get a tetnus shot. It just seen safer than putting a used tea bag on the puncture for 20 minutes then a fig leaf on it over night. I don't mean to poop at someones party but I have just as much right to tell the truth as these homopaths do.
Sponsor
plymouth
02-06-2001, 09:01 PM
Researchers at the Harvard School of Public Health say 80,000 people a year go to American hospitals for surgery and die from malpractice at the hands of surgeons.
Another million are injured by physician malpractice.
Another million are injured by physician malpractice.
kdoubleu
02-07-2001, 10:59 AM
I have tried both alternative and traditional American medical doctors and practices. I have found some that have helped and some that have not in both types of medicine. With either, you have to use your best judgement. Both types of medicine have people who want to help you get better, as well as people who want to soak you.
eat2live
02-15-2001, 02:07 AM
Brianne,I would like to agree with you but when you go and look at the conditions that
many of the members on the drug boards have
and why they are in the condition they are in - I can't. Nothing beats common sense -
[This message has been edited by moderator1 (edited 10-26-2001).]
many of the members on the drug boards have
and why they are in the condition they are in - I can't. Nothing beats common sense -
[This message has been edited by moderator1 (edited 10-26-2001).]
Brianne
02-15-2001, 01:21 PM
To be honest with you Eat To Live I dont really understand what your reply means. Could you clairify a little more for me? THanks
barewinds
03-06-2001, 03:12 AM
Brianne, I would say, your friend needs to find another alternative doctor. Treatments should never last that long, unless your treating a servere medical problem (cancer).
Even so, 20 years is way to long to be treating the same problem with the same remedies. With most Homeopathic treatments, you will notice improvement within the first week.
Even so, 20 years is way to long to be treating the same problem with the same remedies. With most Homeopathic treatments, you will notice improvement within the first week.
russ60
03-10-2001, 02:28 AM
Hi
I guess your message means you don't like homeopathic medicine and that's OK. I've been using it for 25 years with pretty good results. But, as with any alternative medicine you have to use it when you think it will help. Regular medicine also has many problems that alot of people have written about.
For years Peptic ulcers were thought to be caused by stress and a Doctor in Australia found that most ulcers are caused by Helicobacter pylori bacteria. It took the Doctor almost 10 years to convince the medical establishment and some still don't believe it. Now they are treated with antibiotics and anti acids and cured in 3 weeks. Homeopath has it place but I think all types of medicine has it's place. For viriuses Homeopathy is good --regular medicine offers very little. If I had heart problems -I sure wouldn't use homeopathy but I'd go to a Heart Doctor-MD.
There is a very good homeopathic remedy for falls --it has been used for over 175 years to help soreness, aches and pains after falling. I encourage you to try this remedy ---Arnica 30X. It works. That is how I started 25 years ago.
Good Luck!!!
I guess your message means you don't like homeopathic medicine and that's OK. I've been using it for 25 years with pretty good results. But, as with any alternative medicine you have to use it when you think it will help. Regular medicine also has many problems that alot of people have written about.
For years Peptic ulcers were thought to be caused by stress and a Doctor in Australia found that most ulcers are caused by Helicobacter pylori bacteria. It took the Doctor almost 10 years to convince the medical establishment and some still don't believe it. Now they are treated with antibiotics and anti acids and cured in 3 weeks. Homeopath has it place but I think all types of medicine has it's place. For viriuses Homeopathy is good --regular medicine offers very little. If I had heart problems -I sure wouldn't use homeopathy but I'd go to a Heart Doctor-MD.
There is a very good homeopathic remedy for falls --it has been used for over 175 years to help soreness, aches and pains after falling. I encourage you to try this remedy ---Arnica 30X. It works. That is how I started 25 years ago.
Good Luck!!!
Brianne
03-10-2001, 09:53 AM
Russ 60: I do believe that herbal products has a place in the mind of the person that is using it. If it proves it is working then go for it. But , what I don't like is to see someone being treated for 20 years for the same illness and each visit he is "told" that after he takes the prescribed herbs his problem will be fixed. TWENTY YEARS this went on until he was manually convinced by his children to see a medical doctor. The doctor put him on an over the counter medicine. "Reactine" The swellings instantly haulted. 2 swellings in 7 months as of today.And those first two swellings happened in the first month. Compare that to 2000 or more and thousands of dollars payed out over 20 years ! Did you read my post in it's entirerty ? I personally know another fellow that was told by this miracle doctor that he had lung cancer and after this doctor placed a few white pearls of sugar on his tounge the cancer disappeared. I believe this is no more then a ploy to gain faults confidence in this doctor. Sour? Yes I am! This is like a Chiropractor telling his patient that he can heal his appendicitis by manipulating the spinal colum. Truth! Maybe I should conclude by saying not all Homeopath doctors are quacks but there are some. Which one are you seeing?
FaultyLogic
03-13-2001, 12:17 PM
Allergic to water?? Give me a break!!
Your friends are gullible, and being ripped off!
Homeopathy has been proven worthless over and over again. Why do people continue to buy into that unscientific rubbish?
[This message has been edited by moderator1 (edited 03-29-2001).]
Your friends are gullible, and being ripped off!
Homeopathy has been proven worthless over and over again. Why do people continue to buy into that unscientific rubbish?
[This message has been edited by moderator1 (edited 03-29-2001).]
barewinds
03-15-2001, 03:42 AM
Originally posted by FaultyLogic:
Allergic to water?? Give me a break!!
Your friends are gullible, and being ripped off!
Homeopathy has been proven worthless over and over again. Why do idiots continue to buy into that unscientific rubbish?
Hey FaultyLogic, Why do you waste your time,
coming to a board you don't believe in?
Maybe you should try Homeopathy before you make claims that it doesn't work. You may just learn something new! And at the same time maybe help yourself. But that's right,
it will not work for you, because you don't know how to use it, you only read from the Quack master!
Oh, by the way, did you read my post about Hair analyzed done by the Centers for Disease Control. I guess they must be a Quacky bunch!
Allergic to water?? Give me a break!!
Your friends are gullible, and being ripped off!
Homeopathy has been proven worthless over and over again. Why do idiots continue to buy into that unscientific rubbish?
Hey FaultyLogic, Why do you waste your time,
coming to a board you don't believe in?
Maybe you should try Homeopathy before you make claims that it doesn't work. You may just learn something new! And at the same time maybe help yourself. But that's right,
it will not work for you, because you don't know how to use it, you only read from the Quack master!
Oh, by the way, did you read my post about Hair analyzed done by the Centers for Disease Control. I guess they must be a Quacky bunch!
FaultyLogic
03-15-2001, 12:43 PM
I post here to try to protect innocent, gullible folks from being ripped off and possibly harmed by worthless and dangerous therapies which are nonscientific and unproven. I know PLENTY about homeopathy, and it has very very very little to offer anyone. If it works, where is there no scientific data proving it's effectiveness- only anecdotal reports.
www.csicop.org (http://www.csicop.org) www.hcrc.org (http://www.hcrc.org)
www.csicop.org (http://www.csicop.org) www.hcrc.org (http://www.hcrc.org)
barewinds
03-19-2001, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by FaultyLogic:
Allergic to water?? Give me a break!!
Your friends are gullible, and being ripped off!
Homeopathy has been proven worthless over and over again. Why do idiots continue to buy into that unscientific rubbish?
Homeopathy has been used since 1796, and here it is 2001. If it didn't prove to be useful, it wouldn't be here today, would it?
You can say anything you want about it, it doesn't matter. Those of us that use it, know the truth. I've been using it off and on, when needed, for 15 years. I know it works, when I use the right remedy for the problem at hand.
90% of the people tring Homeopathy out for the first time, do it wrong. Then complain it doesn't work.
My 2 year old grandson got a hold of a bottle and ate most of it. I canceled the remedy by giving him a few sips of coke. Now if that was a bottle of prescription drugs,
he'd probably be dead.
Allergic to water?? Give me a break!!
Your friends are gullible, and being ripped off!
Homeopathy has been proven worthless over and over again. Why do idiots continue to buy into that unscientific rubbish?
Homeopathy has been used since 1796, and here it is 2001. If it didn't prove to be useful, it wouldn't be here today, would it?
You can say anything you want about it, it doesn't matter. Those of us that use it, know the truth. I've been using it off and on, when needed, for 15 years. I know it works, when I use the right remedy for the problem at hand.
90% of the people tring Homeopathy out for the first time, do it wrong. Then complain it doesn't work.
My 2 year old grandson got a hold of a bottle and ate most of it. I canceled the remedy by giving him a few sips of coke. Now if that was a bottle of prescription drugs,
he'd probably be dead.
FaultyLogic
03-19-2001, 03:38 PM
Longevity does not prove efficacy. Astrology has been around for millenia- does that mean it's valid? Nope, sorry, 'fraid not. People use homeopathy for the same reason they believe their horoscopes- supertition.
no effective medicine could be 'cancelled out' by a few sips of coke. You needn't have done that, it wouldn't have harmed him anyway, because there was nothing bioactive in the bottle in the first place.
no effective medicine could be 'cancelled out' by a few sips of coke. You needn't have done that, it wouldn't have harmed him anyway, because there was nothing bioactive in the bottle in the first place.
redfox
03-19-2001, 04:20 PM
I incorporate both traditional medicine and homeopathic medicine in my life. The two really CAN coexist. If you think about it, many commercial drugs are made from "natural" sources. I think it's a mistake to always view "traditional" and "homeopathic" as two very seperate camps. Why not take advantage of both?
rhody
03-19-2001, 05:00 PM
Brianne,
To answer your question, as described in your subject heading, herbal alteratives definitely work. Herbs have been used for centuries for healing. Most people who do not understand that, just do not have the knowledge.... I successfully have used herbs for healing. I treated myself, and did not go to a doctor for this. I do not recommend that people do this, like I had done, but I was faced with choices that forced me into this situation. In one way, it opened my eyes to other healing methods that I would maybe have never known about.
No one can use the examples of alleged poor alternative medicinal pratices to discredit herbal therapy, just as we cannot discredit good surgery by doctors who do not perform surgery well.
Redfox says it best. You have to use all available resources to properly take care of yourself, both using common sense, alternative medicines and doctor's care where appropriate.
There are thousands of cases where herbs work well. One just has to do the research and find out for yourself. I'd have to write a book on the subject here to convince you or anyone else, but that information is available on the internet or health foods stores etc.
I'll give you one example. The next time you get a bad cold, take one raw garlic clove a day, and chop it up into some pizza or potatoes and eat it. It is not recommended to exceed 2 cloves a day, according to what I had read. Garlic has been proven to reduce or prevent colds. I know, for I succeeded many times.... As with any illness, please see your doctor for consultation before self-treating yourself.
To counteract the odor, eat one dried apricot afterwards, and then eat another dried apricot about 12 hours later. I discovered that technique myself, accidentally. Don't ask me why dry apricots work for that, because I don't know. It was just one of my experiments.
To answer your question, as described in your subject heading, herbal alteratives definitely work. Herbs have been used for centuries for healing. Most people who do not understand that, just do not have the knowledge.... I successfully have used herbs for healing. I treated myself, and did not go to a doctor for this. I do not recommend that people do this, like I had done, but I was faced with choices that forced me into this situation. In one way, it opened my eyes to other healing methods that I would maybe have never known about.
No one can use the examples of alleged poor alternative medicinal pratices to discredit herbal therapy, just as we cannot discredit good surgery by doctors who do not perform surgery well.
Redfox says it best. You have to use all available resources to properly take care of yourself, both using common sense, alternative medicines and doctor's care where appropriate.
There are thousands of cases where herbs work well. One just has to do the research and find out for yourself. I'd have to write a book on the subject here to convince you or anyone else, but that information is available on the internet or health foods stores etc.
I'll give you one example. The next time you get a bad cold, take one raw garlic clove a day, and chop it up into some pizza or potatoes and eat it. It is not recommended to exceed 2 cloves a day, according to what I had read. Garlic has been proven to reduce or prevent colds. I know, for I succeeded many times.... As with any illness, please see your doctor for consultation before self-treating yourself.
To counteract the odor, eat one dried apricot afterwards, and then eat another dried apricot about 12 hours later. I discovered that technique myself, accidentally. Don't ask me why dry apricots work for that, because I don't know. It was just one of my experiments.
FaultyLogic
03-19-2001, 05:15 PM
Don't equate herbalism with homeopathy. While many homeopathic 'remedies' do use herbs in their preparation, there's an entire colletion of fallacious beliefs behind it.
As far as using 'natural products' we all do that every time we have a cup of coffee or tea. No need to get all fuzzyheaded terms like 'medical', 'pharmaceutical' and 'natural'. I don't divide medicine into alternative vs. western vs. clinical. A far more meaningful way of grouping treatments, philosophies, and practices is as scientifically proven vs. unproven.
Acupuncture is proven to work for some things, but not others. "Western medicine" has a tremendous body of science behind it. Some herbal products have been scientifically proven, such as marijuana is a proven hallucinogin, tobacco is proven to be addictive, etc. Others are still being tested. There is VERY scanty scientific evidence in support of ANY homeopathic remedies, and NONE in support of iridology.
As far as using 'natural products' we all do that every time we have a cup of coffee or tea. No need to get all fuzzyheaded terms like 'medical', 'pharmaceutical' and 'natural'. I don't divide medicine into alternative vs. western vs. clinical. A far more meaningful way of grouping treatments, philosophies, and practices is as scientifically proven vs. unproven.
Acupuncture is proven to work for some things, but not others. "Western medicine" has a tremendous body of science behind it. Some herbal products have been scientifically proven, such as marijuana is a proven hallucinogin, tobacco is proven to be addictive, etc. Others are still being tested. There is VERY scanty scientific evidence in support of ANY homeopathic remedies, and NONE in support of iridology.
redfox
03-19-2001, 05:39 PM
I really can't argue about whether it works or not. But I can respond to your questions regarding "unproven" v. "proven." Is it not true that ALL important and widely used drugs got their start as "unproven remedies?" Think penicillin, polio vaccine, rubella vaccine, etc. All of these important drugs were once "unproven." We continue to discover new drugs and remedies as time goes on. All are "unproven" until accepted into the mainstream. Keep in mind as well that many of these "mainstream" drugs do not help all individuals. Basically, if something works for me, that's all the "proof" I need. I don't need a scientific study to tell me that. Conversely, if something isn't working for me, alternative or scientific, then I would be a real dummy to continue to do it.
[This message has been edited by redfox (edited 03-19-2001).]
[This message has been edited by redfox (edited 03-19-2001).]
rhody
03-20-2001, 12:46 AM
FaultyLogic,
I did not equate herbal therapy with homeopathic medicinal pratices. I wrote my comments based on the "subject heading", if you look over my last reply carefully.
Again, people who do not understand herbal therapy, have not done enough research. Herbs, like garlic for example, are beneficial foods. Period. And some of these are scientifically proven, as you have written. The only thing, is that the drug companies can't sell enough of these plants for huge profits. They have already been patented by nature.
Since these herbs cannot be sold for large profits, research is not done by those that care only about making money. But enough worldwide research has been done, to show the value in a lot of these herbal products. Aloe Vera is another common example.
I did not equate herbal therapy with homeopathic medicinal pratices. I wrote my comments based on the "subject heading", if you look over my last reply carefully.
Again, people who do not understand herbal therapy, have not done enough research. Herbs, like garlic for example, are beneficial foods. Period. And some of these are scientifically proven, as you have written. The only thing, is that the drug companies can't sell enough of these plants for huge profits. They have already been patented by nature.
Since these herbs cannot be sold for large profits, research is not done by those that care only about making money. But enough worldwide research has been done, to show the value in a lot of these herbal products. Aloe Vera is another common example.
Brianne
03-20-2001, 01:57 PM
OK the following statement I will agree with " You have to use all available resources to properly take care of yourself, both using common sense, alternative medicines and doctor's care where appropriate" I have no problem agreeing with this BUT I will not allow any healer to tell me "they have the cure for everything!" And this is what the several people I spoke about in my first post were forced into believing. If I get a problem I go to the medical doctor, sometimes they cure me and sometimes my body cures itself on its own with no drugs. If my body cures it's self with no help from the doctor you never hear my doctor telling me that it was the medicine he gave me 2 years ago that cured me! In other words my doctor doesn't take the credit if he doesn't deserve it.
redfox
03-20-2001, 02:05 PM
No one can be "forced" into believing anything. If someone is going to be gullible and continue spending $$$ when their healer isn't helping them, then they lack common sense, just as if a certain doctor wasn't helping me, I'd go to another doctor. There are people out there that bill themselves as herbalists and healers who really aren't, but that certainly doesn't mean that herbs cannot be a very effective way of dealing with some problems. No one can force anyone to believe anything or to part with their money. Being intelligent about it is the key.
Harry
03-22-2001, 01:07 AM
I have been using Homeopathic Medicine for 25 years. I assure you in the right hands it is a very effective alternative healing method.
The remedies are tested on people not animals and people can tell you how it makes them feel. It is used around the world and is as scientific as any other branch of medicine.
I agree with one poster that said if it didn't work it would have disappeared long ago like the blood letting that killed George Washington (the medicine practiced in that time period).
Regular medicine can't tell you how an asprin helps a headache--The books say that the action is not well understood. Pick up a PDR and look at any drug that is used today--it's action is not well understood but we still use them when needed.
Homeopathy is not in competition with other branches of medicine. Neither is the use of Herbs. Use whatever works. :D
God Bless---Harry
The remedies are tested on people not animals and people can tell you how it makes them feel. It is used around the world and is as scientific as any other branch of medicine.
I agree with one poster that said if it didn't work it would have disappeared long ago like the blood letting that killed George Washington (the medicine practiced in that time period).
Regular medicine can't tell you how an asprin helps a headache--The books say that the action is not well understood. Pick up a PDR and look at any drug that is used today--it's action is not well understood but we still use them when needed.
Homeopathy is not in competition with other branches of medicine. Neither is the use of Herbs. Use whatever works. :D
God Bless---Harry
barewinds
03-22-2001, 02:02 AM
Harry, Well said!
Have you ever used Ferrum Phos. to stop a cold? Take it on the first signs of getting sick. Nux Vomica for indigestion, Hepar Sulf. for sores that don't heal and for getting deep sprinters out. And of coarse
Arnica for pain.
Have you ever used Ferrum Phos. to stop a cold? Take it on the first signs of getting sick. Nux Vomica for indigestion, Hepar Sulf. for sores that don't heal and for getting deep sprinters out. And of coarse
Arnica for pain.
Angelwings
03-22-2001, 02:01 PM
Hello Harry, I'm into all natural stuff for my 6 year old son who has ADHD. Have you ever known has homeopathic med. can help people with ADHD? There is a site all-natural.com that has information on homeopathic med. for them. It's under health products and then Attention Deficit Disorder and Hyperactivity supplements from Energique. The med. is called ADD HP and there is another that takes heavy metals from your body called Metastat. I really would like to know what you think about this, since you have been using homeopathy med. for so many years. Thanks so much. Hope to hear from you.
[This message has been edited by moderator3 (edited 03-22-2001).]
[This message has been edited by moderator3 (edited 03-22-2001).]
plymouth
03-23-2001, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by FaultyLogic:
I post here to try to protect innocent, gullible folks from being ripped off and possibly harmed by worthless and dangerous therapies which are nonscientific and unproven.
Do you have any interest in protecting innocent gullible folks from the "scientific and proven" therapies practiced by the licensed professionals?
The Harvard School of Public Health reports 80,000 deaths annually from surgical malpractice in American hospitals and one million injuries annually due to malpractice by American physicians.
Compare the safe track record of homeopathy, herbs and supplements to the estimated 300,000 annual deaths in America from drug and surgery complications, called iatrogenic deaths. According to the Food and Drug Administration, Center for Disease Control and Public Citizen Health Research Group, one year of adverse prescription drug reactions included:
61,000 people with induced parkinsonism, 32,000 hip fractures, including 1,500 deaths, 16,000 injurious car crashes, 163,000 with memory loss, 659,000 hospitalizations, 28,000 cases of life-threatening or fatal reactions to digoxin (digitalis), 41,000 hospitalizations, including 3,300 deaths from aspirin-like compounds, all together, 9.6 million older adults each year suffer adverse drug reactions.
PS iatrogenic means caused by doctors!
[This message has been edited by plymouth (edited 03-23-2001).]
I post here to try to protect innocent, gullible folks from being ripped off and possibly harmed by worthless and dangerous therapies which are nonscientific and unproven.
Do you have any interest in protecting innocent gullible folks from the "scientific and proven" therapies practiced by the licensed professionals?
The Harvard School of Public Health reports 80,000 deaths annually from surgical malpractice in American hospitals and one million injuries annually due to malpractice by American physicians.
Compare the safe track record of homeopathy, herbs and supplements to the estimated 300,000 annual deaths in America from drug and surgery complications, called iatrogenic deaths. According to the Food and Drug Administration, Center for Disease Control and Public Citizen Health Research Group, one year of adverse prescription drug reactions included:
61,000 people with induced parkinsonism, 32,000 hip fractures, including 1,500 deaths, 16,000 injurious car crashes, 163,000 with memory loss, 659,000 hospitalizations, 28,000 cases of life-threatening or fatal reactions to digoxin (digitalis), 41,000 hospitalizations, including 3,300 deaths from aspirin-like compounds, all together, 9.6 million older adults each year suffer adverse drug reactions.
PS iatrogenic means caused by doctors!
[This message has been edited by plymouth (edited 03-23-2001).]
chanel
03-23-2001, 08:39 AM
I have had five friends die from cancer, while suffering miserable deaths from taking FDA approved drugs. Need I say more.
Brianne
03-23-2001, 08:24 PM
Chanel:
I'm sorry to hear about friends. In respect for your friends I'll try not to say anything to offend you or them but I must ask you this: You said your friends died of cancer while taking FDA approved drugs. What makes you think things would have been diffrent if they chose the herbal route? If the cure for cancer was available through Herbal medicine it would have been put to use by medical doctors by now!
I'm sorry to hear about friends. In respect for your friends I'll try not to say anything to offend you or them but I must ask you this: You said your friends died of cancer while taking FDA approved drugs. What makes you think things would have been diffrent if they chose the herbal route? If the cure for cancer was available through Herbal medicine it would have been put to use by medical doctors by now!
plymouth
03-23-2001, 09:37 PM
It is not true that if a cure is available that doctors will use it.
It took 15 years after proof of stomach ulcers were caused by bacteria before doctors accepted it and began antibiotic treatment. Even now 25 years later many doctors and much of the public continues to believe incorrectly that stomach ulcers are caused by lifestyle and diet.
The first doctor to recognize that handwashing could prevent transmission of infectious diseases was labelled a quack by the rest of the medical profession.
Quackery today may be medical science tomorrow.
Glucosamine sulfate was ridiculed for years as a treatment for arthritis, yet recent double blind controlled clinical studies published in peer reviewed journals have shown it to be effective against the pain and to stop the loss of cartilage.
I can certainly respect doctors for being skeptical of treatments not proven by such studies yet I also recognize that many alternative treatments will never see any research money because they cannot be controlled by the corporate interests with the money.
Thus we are left to educate ourselves to the best of our ability to take charge of our own health care.
It took 15 years after proof of stomach ulcers were caused by bacteria before doctors accepted it and began antibiotic treatment. Even now 25 years later many doctors and much of the public continues to believe incorrectly that stomach ulcers are caused by lifestyle and diet.
The first doctor to recognize that handwashing could prevent transmission of infectious diseases was labelled a quack by the rest of the medical profession.
Quackery today may be medical science tomorrow.
Glucosamine sulfate was ridiculed for years as a treatment for arthritis, yet recent double blind controlled clinical studies published in peer reviewed journals have shown it to be effective against the pain and to stop the loss of cartilage.
I can certainly respect doctors for being skeptical of treatments not proven by such studies yet I also recognize that many alternative treatments will never see any research money because they cannot be controlled by the corporate interests with the money.
Thus we are left to educate ourselves to the best of our ability to take charge of our own health care.
barewinds
03-24-2001, 03:08 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by plymouth:
[B]
The Harvard School of Public Health reports 80,000 deaths annually from surgical malpractice in American hospitals and one million injuries annually due to malpractice by American physicians.
Compare the safe track record of homeopathy, herbs and supplements to the estimated 300,000 annual deaths in America from drug and surgery complications, called iatrogenic deaths. According to the Food and Drug Administration, Center for Disease Control and Public Citizen Health Research Group, one year of adverse prescription drug reactions included:
61,000 people with induced parkinsonism, 32,000 hip fractures, including 1,500 deaths, 16,000 injurious car crashes, 163,000 with memory loss, 659,000 hospitalizations, 28,000 cases of life-threatening or fatal reactions to digoxin (digitalis), 41,000 hospitalizations, including 3,300 deaths from aspirin-like compounds, all together, 9.6 million older adults each year suffer adverse drug reactions.
plymouth would you send me the web site you got these facts from. Thanks, Herbalcall@aol.com
[B]
The Harvard School of Public Health reports 80,000 deaths annually from surgical malpractice in American hospitals and one million injuries annually due to malpractice by American physicians.
Compare the safe track record of homeopathy, herbs and supplements to the estimated 300,000 annual deaths in America from drug and surgery complications, called iatrogenic deaths. According to the Food and Drug Administration, Center for Disease Control and Public Citizen Health Research Group, one year of adverse prescription drug reactions included:
61,000 people with induced parkinsonism, 32,000 hip fractures, including 1,500 deaths, 16,000 injurious car crashes, 163,000 with memory loss, 659,000 hospitalizations, 28,000 cases of life-threatening or fatal reactions to digoxin (digitalis), 41,000 hospitalizations, including 3,300 deaths from aspirin-like compounds, all together, 9.6 million older adults each year suffer adverse drug reactions.
plymouth would you send me the web site you got these facts from. Thanks, Herbalcall@aol.com
FaultyLogic
03-24-2001, 11:30 AM
Barewinds, anyone can cut and paste a quote. Backing up these proof is an entirely different matter.
A hell of a lot more people have had their lives lengthened or saved by scientific cures for cancer than by homeopathy.
A hell of a lot more people have had their lives lengthened or saved by scientific cures for cancer than by homeopathy.
redfox
03-24-2001, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by FaultyLogic:
Barewinds, anyone can cut and paste a quote. Backing up these proof is an entirely different matter.
A hell of a lot more people have had their lives lengthened or saved by scientific cures for cancer than by homeopathy.
How do you know?
Barewinds, anyone can cut and paste a quote. Backing up these proof is an entirely different matter.
A hell of a lot more people have had their lives lengthened or saved by scientific cures for cancer than by homeopathy.
How do you know?
plymouth
03-24-2001, 10:32 PM
No one in this topic thread said that homeopathy was a cure for cancer.
A lot more people have had their lives shortened or ended by scientific cures for cancer than by homeopathy.( http://www.time.com/time/magazine/archive/1995/950403/950403.medicine.html THE DISTURBING CASE OF THE CURE THAT KILLED THE PATIENT)
A Measure of malpractice
Paul C. Weiler, Howard Hiatt, Joseph P. Newhouse, William G. Johnson, Troyen Brennan, Lucian Leape Harvard University Press 1993
Excerpt: 80,000 persons die every year--one person every 7 minutes--and 150,000 to 300,000 more are injured annually from medical negligence in hospitals.
http://research.aarp.org/health/ib35_medical_prn.html Medical Error and Patient Injury: Costly and Often Preventable --Printed from the Research Center (http://research.aarp.org/) on AARP's Webplace.
http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/vets/hvr100897.000/hvr100897_0.htm US House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Health, WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 8, 1997 "Dr. Leape's estimate that approximately one million Americans are injured by errors in hospital treatment each year and that 120,000 die as a result thereof is chilling."
http://www.whale.to/v/laura.html MEDICAL INTERVENTION HIT OR MYTH? By Dr. Ronald S. Laura, Professor in Education, University of Newcastle & P.E.R.C. Fellow in Health Education, Harvard University
(Nexus Magazine July-August 1991).
"Only about 15% of all medical interventions are supported by scientific evidence. This is partly because only 1% of the articles written in medical journals are scientifically sound." D. Eddy, M.D., Ph.D. Smith R, Where is the wisdom?. BMJ 1991; 303(6806):798-9
[This message has been edited by plymouth (edited 03-24-2001).]
A lot more people have had their lives shortened or ended by scientific cures for cancer than by homeopathy.( http://www.time.com/time/magazine/archive/1995/950403/950403.medicine.html THE DISTURBING CASE OF THE CURE THAT KILLED THE PATIENT)
A Measure of malpractice
Paul C. Weiler, Howard Hiatt, Joseph P. Newhouse, William G. Johnson, Troyen Brennan, Lucian Leape Harvard University Press 1993
Excerpt: 80,000 persons die every year--one person every 7 minutes--and 150,000 to 300,000 more are injured annually from medical negligence in hospitals.
http://research.aarp.org/health/ib35_medical_prn.html Medical Error and Patient Injury: Costly and Often Preventable --Printed from the Research Center (http://research.aarp.org/) on AARP's Webplace.
http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/vets/hvr100897.000/hvr100897_0.htm US House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Health, WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 8, 1997 "Dr. Leape's estimate that approximately one million Americans are injured by errors in hospital treatment each year and that 120,000 die as a result thereof is chilling."
http://www.whale.to/v/laura.html MEDICAL INTERVENTION HIT OR MYTH? By Dr. Ronald S. Laura, Professor in Education, University of Newcastle & P.E.R.C. Fellow in Health Education, Harvard University
(Nexus Magazine July-August 1991).
"Only about 15% of all medical interventions are supported by scientific evidence. This is partly because only 1% of the articles written in medical journals are scientifically sound." D. Eddy, M.D., Ph.D. Smith R, Where is the wisdom?. BMJ 1991; 303(6806):798-9
[This message has been edited by plymouth (edited 03-24-2001).]
barewinds
03-25-2001, 01:47 AM
To: plymouth,
I was wondering where you had found that information, because I had post the same thing on the Garden Forum: Herbalism
(Not this web site). I found the information
in the heart of the FDA files, it is truely shocking at the facts you can find there.
Unfortunately if you don't map your way in,
it seems you can never find that page again, even when you mark it. Thanks!
I was wondering where you had found that information, because I had post the same thing on the Garden Forum: Herbalism
(Not this web site). I found the information
in the heart of the FDA files, it is truely shocking at the facts you can find there.
Unfortunately if you don't map your way in,
it seems you can never find that page again, even when you mark it. Thanks!
moonglow
03-29-2001, 03:21 PM
Sorry I don't have time to read all the replies on here...just wanted to say I do go to a regular MD and in fact did step on a rusty nail a couple of years ago and went in and got a tenus shot. lol. I don't see a thing wrong with trying anything and everything and what works..works. So far though homeopath has helped my son and I more then conventional meds. I do not 'see' a homeopath dr.
We now drink bottled water not because anyone is 'allergic' to it but because of the heavy metals in our drinking water.
Oh and by the way all the American Indians would have been dead long before the white men came if herbs and other natural things didn't work. :)
------------------
Nate, five years old, 18 airborne allergies, food allergies, yeast, soy, eggs and milk. Also recates to red dye 40 and many meds. DX with ADHD, Sensory intregration disorder, autoriy processing disorder and the list goes on.
Me, the mom, 40yrs old...an older mom but no wiser. EX..sitting in jail where he belongs
We now drink bottled water not because anyone is 'allergic' to it but because of the heavy metals in our drinking water.
Oh and by the way all the American Indians would have been dead long before the white men came if herbs and other natural things didn't work. :)
------------------
Nate, five years old, 18 airborne allergies, food allergies, yeast, soy, eggs and milk. Also recates to red dye 40 and many meds. DX with ADHD, Sensory intregration disorder, autoriy processing disorder and the list goes on.
Me, the mom, 40yrs old...an older mom but no wiser. EX..sitting in jail where he belongs
eweejoe
04-23-2001, 03:13 PM
Just out of curiosity, those of you on here who have used homeopathic medicine for many years, would you please list some specific types of illnesses (not colds, cuts, minor things like that, that could very easily 'cure' themselves) that you have successfully treated with herbal/homeopathic remedies? I personally wouldn't really consider treating a cold a success. Colds usually last 2-3 days around here and we don't use herbs or any other type of medication unless fever is present-which it usually isn't. I am not FOR or AGAINST homeopath (although I have very little faith in it-and YES I have tried it), just curious as to what it has done for you guys that makes you so defensive of it.
b. johnson
04-23-2001, 07:20 PM
I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease back in 1991. I have used several homepathic remedies with other things to achieve remission. My last major attack was back in 1998 where I was hospitalized for 28 days in May. One of my homepathic remedies was specially formulated by my herbalist. Since I was using other things, I cannot prove with a shadow of doubt that they did work. But I believe that they work.
rhody
04-23-2001, 11:56 PM
Eweejoe,
When I suffered greatly with many health problems, prior to having my dental amalgams removed, many herbs helped me.
When I had my leg pains, Ginseng helped me tremendously, where the pain diminished within an hour or two. With the urinary tract problems that I had, I described some of the herbs that I used to help heal me, in this healthboard section previously.
Without these herbs, I was helpless for any other type of cure or relief, since the doctors that I saw could do nothing for me, except cause me more pain with their drugs. But problems that result from mercury-silver dental amalgams are not understood completely either, to be fair to them also.
I believe that it is estimated that over 30 million Americans use some type of alternative medicine each year. Maybe someone out there has the exact figures on that.
Herbs have gotten so popular here in the United States, that my doctor finally started asking about it to their patients. I was kind of surprised when they did, just a few weeks ago. I told them that I wasn't taking herbal supplements, but just drinking some herbal tea.
I used herbs (and still do) because they worked for me. Right now, I'm experimenting with cilantro (a popular green leafy plant used in cooking), to further detoxify heavy metals from my body. Herbs have been used for thousands of years for medicinal purposes. Herbal therapy is actually quite a science. I don't know a lot of homeopathy, although I have read a little about the subject.
When I suffered greatly with many health problems, prior to having my dental amalgams removed, many herbs helped me.
When I had my leg pains, Ginseng helped me tremendously, where the pain diminished within an hour or two. With the urinary tract problems that I had, I described some of the herbs that I used to help heal me, in this healthboard section previously.
Without these herbs, I was helpless for any other type of cure or relief, since the doctors that I saw could do nothing for me, except cause me more pain with their drugs. But problems that result from mercury-silver dental amalgams are not understood completely either, to be fair to them also.
I believe that it is estimated that over 30 million Americans use some type of alternative medicine each year. Maybe someone out there has the exact figures on that.
Herbs have gotten so popular here in the United States, that my doctor finally started asking about it to their patients. I was kind of surprised when they did, just a few weeks ago. I told them that I wasn't taking herbal supplements, but just drinking some herbal tea.
I used herbs (and still do) because they worked for me. Right now, I'm experimenting with cilantro (a popular green leafy plant used in cooking), to further detoxify heavy metals from my body. Herbs have been used for thousands of years for medicinal purposes. Herbal therapy is actually quite a science. I don't know a lot of homeopathy, although I have read a little about the subject.
Harry
04-26-2001, 03:13 AM
Hi Eweejoe,
I have been using homeopathy for about 25 years and I'm certainly not an expert.The following are a list of disorders/illnesses that I have personal seen cured:
> Backaches, Muscle spasms, Clinical Depression, Allergies, Gout, Pneumonia, Cramping pains during periods, anxiety disorders, skin infections, sinusitis, extremely low self-esteem, tachycartia, Strep throats within 3 hours, diverticulitis, peri-tonsillar abscess with one dose of a remedy, broken bones that would not heal--- after treated the cast was removed in two week instead the 4 months the MD said it would need, Flu overnight, gastric flu, ptomaine poisoning, diarrhea, severe constipation, severe falls with no soreness the next day,
kidney infections, wasp and bee stings,ant bites,black floaters in the eye after being told by 3 eye Doctors --not anything they could do.
By the way, I once read that a cold is so difficult to cure --if you can cure a cold at any stage during it's 7 day duration ---you have arrived as a Homeopath.
Homeopathy works well against viral infections whereas regular medicine does not.
I could tell you the name of each person that was treated and write detail stories. But, this gives you an idea why homeopathy has been around for over 200 years.Those of us that have used it with success are true believers.It works even in the hands of a novice.
In the Skilled hands of a well trained Homeopath sometimes the results borders on the miraculous.
Take Care---Harry
I have been using homeopathy for about 25 years and I'm certainly not an expert.The following are a list of disorders/illnesses that I have personal seen cured:
> Backaches, Muscle spasms, Clinical Depression, Allergies, Gout, Pneumonia, Cramping pains during periods, anxiety disorders, skin infections, sinusitis, extremely low self-esteem, tachycartia, Strep throats within 3 hours, diverticulitis, peri-tonsillar abscess with one dose of a remedy, broken bones that would not heal--- after treated the cast was removed in two week instead the 4 months the MD said it would need, Flu overnight, gastric flu, ptomaine poisoning, diarrhea, severe constipation, severe falls with no soreness the next day,
kidney infections, wasp and bee stings,ant bites,black floaters in the eye after being told by 3 eye Doctors --not anything they could do.
By the way, I once read that a cold is so difficult to cure --if you can cure a cold at any stage during it's 7 day duration ---you have arrived as a Homeopath.
Homeopathy works well against viral infections whereas regular medicine does not.
I could tell you the name of each person that was treated and write detail stories. But, this gives you an idea why homeopathy has been around for over 200 years.Those of us that have used it with success are true believers.It works even in the hands of a novice.
In the Skilled hands of a well trained Homeopath sometimes the results borders on the miraculous.
Take Care---Harry
eweejoe
04-26-2001, 09:43 AM
Hi Harry!
I was just wondering, have these infections that have been treated, were they properly diagnosed with lab work? Just curious.
I am not trying to be a skeptic, I am just trying to decide for myself whether or not there is any validity to it. I am not necessarily interested in homeopath, I do have serious doubts about it(I'll stick with modern medicine, thanks :) ), but I am interested in the benefits of all of the herbs that are available these days. Not necessarily for 'healing' or 'self- treatment' though. I do however strongly believe that #1) they will effect everyone differently and #2)the more you believe they will work, the more they will work which is actually just a placebo effect.
Thank you so much for your input. Sounds like you've benefitted from it greatly! Take care!
Sherri.
I was just wondering, have these infections that have been treated, were they properly diagnosed with lab work? Just curious.
I am not trying to be a skeptic, I am just trying to decide for myself whether or not there is any validity to it. I am not necessarily interested in homeopath, I do have serious doubts about it(I'll stick with modern medicine, thanks :) ), but I am interested in the benefits of all of the herbs that are available these days. Not necessarily for 'healing' or 'self- treatment' though. I do however strongly believe that #1) they will effect everyone differently and #2)the more you believe they will work, the more they will work which is actually just a placebo effect.
Thank you so much for your input. Sounds like you've benefitted from it greatly! Take care!
Sherri.
eweejoe
04-26-2001, 01:49 PM
Harry,
Yes, there is a story behind my username. My sister couldn't say Sherri when she was young so she said "Ewee". My whole family still calls me that. As for the Joe part...Sadly enough, that is my middle name. Yuck! :) Just stuck the two together for my webID's. I prefer Sherri also. :) FYI :)
Also, Thanks for the info!
Take Care!
Sherri.
Yes, there is a story behind my username. My sister couldn't say Sherri when she was young so she said "Ewee". My whole family still calls me that. As for the Joe part...Sadly enough, that is my middle name. Yuck! :) Just stuck the two together for my webID's. I prefer Sherri also. :) FYI :)
Also, Thanks for the info!
Take Care!
Sherri.
potato59
06-29-2001, 11:29 AM
I just wanted everyone on this thread to know my testimony. For many years i spent countless money on specialty doctors for my stomach ailment. I had been given antibiotics, anti-anxiety meds, etc, etc....and nothing worked. I still had the stomach pain. I was exhausted and ready to give up. Finally i sought alternative help, and lo behold! I am cured!!! I truly believe that doctors of medical profession are not as helpful as the alternative doctors. I took a homeopathic solution for my stomach, and a product made from the resin of a tree, and it worked! These products cost me 30 dollars, as opposed to the thousands of dollars i paid the med doctors. If it works for me, i say my journey is done. I am all for alternative meds.
Brianne
07-06-2001, 09:57 PM
Potato, if you don't mind sharing, what was your stomach problem you were having? Indigestion? reflux?
NancyH
07-08-2001, 02:26 AM
80,000 huh? so how many surgeries are performed each year? try over 40 million ok? Now the stats don't look that bad. And consider a 1/3 of those 80,000 were near death circumstances where this was the last resort and if no surgery most likely would have died anyway. I'm a professional and logical, let's take it to the logical end and see where the number fits in. Find the statistics on homeopathic malpractice, you won't of course because they are not recognized as Drs nor do they have the schoolng. I've tried it all, just a little common sense, the first person who tickles your ear may be the same one who bites it off. If it sounds too good to be true then it probably is. What works for one may not work for another and the placebo effect works pretty well in alternative medicene. Malpractice at times is a sham, why do you think medical costs are going up? To pay for malpractice suits, some of which are not valid and many are thrown out. You can sue your Dr now for something as little as a ingrown hair. Everyone is jumping on the sue everyone for everything and then we wonder why the costs are rising. Stats mean nothing unless you go backstage.
NancyH
07-08-2001, 02:55 AM
So should we outlaw peanuts cuz some people have deadly reactions to them? come on folks both can work for ya, bad medicene comes in all forms, alternative, mainstream, homeopath, herbology. All medicene has the potential to harm if taken incorrectly by the patient or just plain poor judgement. Most of our pharmacuetical medicene comes from the same herbs that homeopaths condemn. There are alot of herbs out there to that are causing many deaths, find those stats, they will be small because the overall use of them is smaller than mainstream medicene. Homeopath alternative or whatever all have the potential to do just as much if not more harm than mainstream medicene. If I was in the midst of a heart attack, I certainly would not run to my homeopath, I'd go to the nearest hospital where the chances of high tech intervention could better my chances of survival than a herbologist. I could also die to but I'd rather take the more proven route. Whatever you folks do don't look at stats of the lives that are saved each year by mainstream medicene, they far outweigh the tragedy. Put Homeopathic Drs in the operating rooms before you make the comparison.
Harry
07-08-2001, 10:59 AM
Hi Nancy,
I don't like comparing different forms of medicine to each other because I don't think they are in competition with each other but compliment each other.A person would be very foolish to use a Homeopath in a trauma situation. There is no remedy that will set bones or treat an emergency heart condition.But,it does have its place in medicine and is used worldwide.
It has been my experience that Homeopath MDs are very well educated. The last one I personally saw graduated from Stanford and also Stanford Medical School and later graduated from a Homeopathic School in Athens, Greece. But, I know all people that practice homeopathy are not well schooled. Sorry to say all medical schools are not rated equal as well as colleges.
Another interesting point is the only FDA approved thing in a health food store is homeopathic remedies.I have used homeopathy for a long time and if used properly--IT WORKS http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bang.gif
God Bless---Harry
I don't like comparing different forms of medicine to each other because I don't think they are in competition with each other but compliment each other.A person would be very foolish to use a Homeopath in a trauma situation. There is no remedy that will set bones or treat an emergency heart condition.But,it does have its place in medicine and is used worldwide.
It has been my experience that Homeopath MDs are very well educated. The last one I personally saw graduated from Stanford and also Stanford Medical School and later graduated from a Homeopathic School in Athens, Greece. But, I know all people that practice homeopathy are not well schooled. Sorry to say all medical schools are not rated equal as well as colleges.
Another interesting point is the only FDA approved thing in a health food store is homeopathic remedies.I have used homeopathy for a long time and if used properly--IT WORKS http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bang.gif
God Bless---Harry
moderator3
07-08-2001, 06:14 PM
Actually, Nancy, those "stats" came from the physicians themselves, not from alternative medicine or from lawyers. 80,000 deaths per year from surgical malpractice in U.S. Hospitals. Harvard School of Public Medicine. And that is an old number. The newest numbers are 120,000 deaths and about a million injuries. Per year.
NancyH
07-09-2001, 02:35 AM
I get a little heated with this topic anyway. My Doctor is also one who believes they can compliment each other. I personally do not like to put any drug, herb or whatever in my body if I can help it. I think vit and mineral supplements, homeopathic, and herbs are great sources of help for warding off some illnesses. I do not believe homeopathic medicene can cure all the worlds ills like they claim. It is a shame that so many accidents do and can happen on a daily basis in the hands of those we put our trust, but there are also many tragedies that are averted in those same hands as well. I know of a patient who was electrocuted(survived)on the operating table, unbeknownst to the surgeon, faulty outlet, those are also malpractice claims towards the physician, tho he had nothing to do with it. some of those claims are actually a shared claim. If a person sues the hospital for that incident the surgeon as well is sued, tho he did nothing. I've tried homeopathic med but they did not work as well as the conventional, I have a friend who uses both and works very well. There is danger in every field.
Martyn Chilvers
08-14-2001, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by FaultyLogic:
Barewinds, anyone can cut and paste a quote. Backing up these proof is an entirely different matter.
A hell of a lot more people have had their lives lengthened or saved by scientific cures for cancer than by homeopathy.
OK so this is a bit of a late reply, sorry only just joined....My father who never smoked, drank probably two pints a month and jogged about 40 - 70 miles a week died of cancer 6 months after completing his 13th London marathon. The time scale went something like this:
DEC - MAR: complained to Doctor about shoulder and back pain.
APR: Finished 13th London Marathon in 4 hrs at 65.
MAY: Told he had terminal cancer - primary site unknown - secondary sites in bones of shoulder and upper back.
MAY - NOV: experienced pain I wouldn't wish on anyone. Trusted Doctors who told him to eat high fat foods (?!!!) to maintain energy.
NOV: Died.
This experience tells me but two things:
1. Nobody fully understands health, disease, etc or has the ultimate knowledge to cure....as far as I understand to the present day.
2. The final and ultimate responsibility for lives, healthy or otherwise, rests with the individual - for they are the only ones living their life, in their world, with their strains, stresses and happiness - they are the only ones in a position to learn and understand.
Dear FaultyLogic:
I'm happy for you that you have a strong opinion in all matters healthy....however you have only your experiences limited and censored by your own beliefs (as mine are by myself or else I wouldn't be writing this). I feel each individual is entitled to follow his own path to his own understanding - and learn through his own mistakes.
Barewinds, anyone can cut and paste a quote. Backing up these proof is an entirely different matter.
A hell of a lot more people have had their lives lengthened or saved by scientific cures for cancer than by homeopathy.
OK so this is a bit of a late reply, sorry only just joined....My father who never smoked, drank probably two pints a month and jogged about 40 - 70 miles a week died of cancer 6 months after completing his 13th London marathon. The time scale went something like this:
DEC - MAR: complained to Doctor about shoulder and back pain.
APR: Finished 13th London Marathon in 4 hrs at 65.
MAY: Told he had terminal cancer - primary site unknown - secondary sites in bones of shoulder and upper back.
MAY - NOV: experienced pain I wouldn't wish on anyone. Trusted Doctors who told him to eat high fat foods (?!!!) to maintain energy.
NOV: Died.
This experience tells me but two things:
1. Nobody fully understands health, disease, etc or has the ultimate knowledge to cure....as far as I understand to the present day.
2. The final and ultimate responsibility for lives, healthy or otherwise, rests with the individual - for they are the only ones living their life, in their world, with their strains, stresses and happiness - they are the only ones in a position to learn and understand.
Dear FaultyLogic:
I'm happy for you that you have a strong opinion in all matters healthy....however you have only your experiences limited and censored by your own beliefs (as mine are by myself or else I wouldn't be writing this). I feel each individual is entitled to follow his own path to his own understanding - and learn through his own mistakes.
rhody
08-16-2001, 10:44 PM
Sorry to hear about your father's death. I'm sure that he was a very special person to you. Cancer is such a horrible disease. It must be especially hard to accept since your father was so healthy and vibrant. That's remarkable that he could run so much at his age.
I couldn't help thinking about it last night, after I first read your message. I lost my mother to cancer when she was 47 years old. I have great feelings for anyone that loses a loved one to cancer.
You have provided us with some good wisdom. We don't have all the answers. Some people may have found some relief through alternative medicine, whether or not it has been proven. I know that alternative medicine greatly has helped me. Thanks for sharing with us this information.
I couldn't help thinking about it last night, after I first read your message. I lost my mother to cancer when she was 47 years old. I have great feelings for anyone that loses a loved one to cancer.
You have provided us with some good wisdom. We don't have all the answers. Some people may have found some relief through alternative medicine, whether or not it has been proven. I know that alternative medicine greatly has helped me. Thanks for sharing with us this information.
scooter9999
08-17-2001, 12:05 PM
I think I was born a skeptic, so when my wife went to see a Homeopath, I wasn't sure what to think. A couple of her relatives had gone to see this guy and seemed much better off for it.
In fact, no doctor could figure out what was wrong with her cousin. She could barely even stand up. She spent most of her time confined to her bed. After seeing this guy for a while, you cannot even tell she is the same person. She is able to almost function like a 'normal' person again.
My wife suffers from severe depression, but actually went to see the guy about her problem dreams. I personally might have the odd nightmare, but hardly ever, I cannot even remember what they were about. But she would be haunted by terrible dreams about her past that would end up wrecking her own day. Not something something a person with depression needs.
So she went to see this Homeopath. He spent a lot of time interviewing her, asking her all kinds of questions about her past. It was tough for her, ask her all kinds of interesting question. Plus, his english can be a bit hard to understand, so that makes it a bit tougher.
He prescribed a Dolognos (spelling?) remedy for her, and it seemed to work. I realize there could of been a strong placebo affect at work here as well. Since then, he has helped her a few other things as well. I don't think he was able to help my mother-inlaw with her problem.
So I don't know what to think. I'm just glad she's better.
One other thing about this guy, he's in big demand, but charges a reasonable amount for his services. And the remedies are not very expensive. He could charge lots of money and people would probably pay it.
By the way, this guy has been a Homeopathic doctor for many years. He was trained in China, then moved to Canada.
In fact, no doctor could figure out what was wrong with her cousin. She could barely even stand up. She spent most of her time confined to her bed. After seeing this guy for a while, you cannot even tell she is the same person. She is able to almost function like a 'normal' person again.
My wife suffers from severe depression, but actually went to see the guy about her problem dreams. I personally might have the odd nightmare, but hardly ever, I cannot even remember what they were about. But she would be haunted by terrible dreams about her past that would end up wrecking her own day. Not something something a person with depression needs.
So she went to see this Homeopath. He spent a lot of time interviewing her, asking her all kinds of questions about her past. It was tough for her, ask her all kinds of interesting question. Plus, his english can be a bit hard to understand, so that makes it a bit tougher.
He prescribed a Dolognos (spelling?) remedy for her, and it seemed to work. I realize there could of been a strong placebo affect at work here as well. Since then, he has helped her a few other things as well. I don't think he was able to help my mother-inlaw with her problem.
So I don't know what to think. I'm just glad she's better.
One other thing about this guy, he's in big demand, but charges a reasonable amount for his services. And the remedies are not very expensive. He could charge lots of money and people would probably pay it.
By the way, this guy has been a Homeopathic doctor for many years. He was trained in China, then moved to Canada.
mel333
08-28-2001, 05:19 AM
Hi to all,
Just wanted to put my 2 cents in. There is alot of valuable advice in this extraordinarily long post. I have discovered the benefits of accupunture and homeopathy for neck/back pain and migranes and I am extremely happy with the results. However, treatment is individual specific and will ultimately depend on the beleives and values of that individual and how badly they want to get better. Each to their own but when western medicine was not aiding my recovery and dare I say contributing to more pain, alternative medicine has been a light in the distance and even as a sceptic I found it quite miraculous.
Mel
Just wanted to put my 2 cents in. There is alot of valuable advice in this extraordinarily long post. I have discovered the benefits of accupunture and homeopathy for neck/back pain and migranes and I am extremely happy with the results. However, treatment is individual specific and will ultimately depend on the beleives and values of that individual and how badly they want to get better. Each to their own but when western medicine was not aiding my recovery and dare I say contributing to more pain, alternative medicine has been a light in the distance and even as a sceptic I found it quite miraculous.
Mel
Crissy
04-10-2002, 07:16 AM
10.4.02: Had been experiencing shoulder and arm pain since around Christmas. The ache which occurred at first occasionally and only at night became constant in my right shoulder and arm muscle(between elbow and shoulder) then moved to my left arm over a period of many weeks. I couldn't sleep and after one week of constant pain decided to try over the counter type treatment.
After about 4 weeks on Herron OsteoEze (Glucosamine hydrochloride 750mg twice daily) the pain gradually cleared, although I must say I also underwent Bowen Treatment (a modified version of Bowen & therapeutic massage) once per week.
Even though it worked, I stopped taking the Glucosamine (I was unsure of the long-term side effects) and have since been experimenting with Chelated Potassium supplementation (495 mg once per day with breakfast for the past 4-5 weeks).
The pain has returned (though to a lesser degree) and in my left arm only (not shoulder) at this time.
As I'm told there are some associated dangers with Potassium supplementation I am unsure whether to try increasing the dose to see if this has any additional effect, especially as I'm still unsure if the Potassium has helped or if the condition would have eased anyway.
Has anyone else had a similar experience, success, or who would like to comment?
[This message has been edited by Crissy (edited 04-10-2002).]
After about 4 weeks on Herron OsteoEze (Glucosamine hydrochloride 750mg twice daily) the pain gradually cleared, although I must say I also underwent Bowen Treatment (a modified version of Bowen & therapeutic massage) once per week.
Even though it worked, I stopped taking the Glucosamine (I was unsure of the long-term side effects) and have since been experimenting with Chelated Potassium supplementation (495 mg once per day with breakfast for the past 4-5 weeks).
The pain has returned (though to a lesser degree) and in my left arm only (not shoulder) at this time.
As I'm told there are some associated dangers with Potassium supplementation I am unsure whether to try increasing the dose to see if this has any additional effect, especially as I'm still unsure if the Potassium has helped or if the condition would have eased anyway.
Has anyone else had a similar experience, success, or who would like to comment?
[This message has been edited by Crissy (edited 04-10-2002).]
Harry
04-10-2002, 02:20 PM
I am not familiar with Chelation Potassium Supplementation. I do know that if you take too much potassium it can KILL you. It is a dangerous supplement to be taking without proper Medical Supervision.---Having your blood level ckecked for Potassium.
Harry
Harry
Jay Tor
04-10-2002, 02:36 PM
"MAY - NOV: experienced pain I wouldn't wish on anyone. Trusted Doctors who told him to eat high fat foods (?!!!) to maintain energy."
The high fat foods are vital in cases where the cancer patient has lost a great deal of weight and has little or no fat [energy] reserves. In very serious circumstances where the patient is unable to take any food by mouth for an extended time [e.g. extensive 3rd degree burns or bone marrow transplant] the patient is often placed on intravenous TPN [total parenteral nutrition]. TPN is comprised of 2 different IVs - one IV contains water, electrolyte salts [saline] and glucose; the second IV contains a specific fat. Why fats? - because fats have are the highest energy [caloric] nutritional compounds and in these circumstances have the highest success.
The nervous system [brain, spinal cord, nerves] are comprised of fatty tissue. Without appropriate and adequate fats, the nervous system collapses - brain death occurs. Other systems also need fats - but the nervous system needs fats most.
re: homeopathy and alternative medicine
Scientific [clinical] studies are underway to investigate various forms of alternative medicine, just check the NIH sites. Or, check the German Commission E - the [West] Germans have been studying alternative medicines seriously for over 30 years.
The high fat foods are vital in cases where the cancer patient has lost a great deal of weight and has little or no fat [energy] reserves. In very serious circumstances where the patient is unable to take any food by mouth for an extended time [e.g. extensive 3rd degree burns or bone marrow transplant] the patient is often placed on intravenous TPN [total parenteral nutrition]. TPN is comprised of 2 different IVs - one IV contains water, electrolyte salts [saline] and glucose; the second IV contains a specific fat. Why fats? - because fats have are the highest energy [caloric] nutritional compounds and in these circumstances have the highest success.
The nervous system [brain, spinal cord, nerves] are comprised of fatty tissue. Without appropriate and adequate fats, the nervous system collapses - brain death occurs. Other systems also need fats - but the nervous system needs fats most.
re: homeopathy and alternative medicine
Scientific [clinical] studies are underway to investigate various forms of alternative medicine, just check the NIH sites. Or, check the German Commission E - the [West] Germans have been studying alternative medicines seriously for over 30 years.
shan1679
04-15-2002, 05:35 AM
in regards to the question of whether herbal medicine works, and therefore any natural medicine, there is no clear cut answer. western medicine or allopathic medicine is all comprised of stuff that is at its basic level natural but it has been distorted to create a drug.
we are beings of nature and to me it seems that the logical thing is to look to nature to help us heal.
all any doctor should do - natural or otherwise - is give us the tools to self heal. they are there as teachers and any that see themselves as some kind of superior being are kiidibng themselves. as human beings we are capable of much more than we give ourselves credit for. using things like homeopathy and herbs is basically to give our bodies a push in the right direction so that it can regain its balance and do what its supposed to do - without suppressing anything.
i think ultimately we want to have doctors of all sorts working side by side and have us practise prventative medicine instead of curative medicine so that we dont have to get chronically sick in the first place.
i believe it all starts in our state of mind.
we are beings of nature and to me it seems that the logical thing is to look to nature to help us heal.
all any doctor should do - natural or otherwise - is give us the tools to self heal. they are there as teachers and any that see themselves as some kind of superior being are kiidibng themselves. as human beings we are capable of much more than we give ourselves credit for. using things like homeopathy and herbs is basically to give our bodies a push in the right direction so that it can regain its balance and do what its supposed to do - without suppressing anything.
i think ultimately we want to have doctors of all sorts working side by side and have us practise prventative medicine instead of curative medicine so that we dont have to get chronically sick in the first place.
i believe it all starts in our state of mind.
Crissy
04-22-2002, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Harry:
I do know that if you take too much potassium it can KILL you. It is a dangerous supplement to be taking without proper Medical Supervision.---Having your blood level ckecked for Potassium.
Harry[/B]
Hi Harry,
Thank you so much for responding. I had intended to suspend supplementation as part of my experiment and following your response, have decided 'now' would be a good time!
I do know that if you take too much potassium it can KILL you. It is a dangerous supplement to be taking without proper Medical Supervision.---Having your blood level ckecked for Potassium.
Harry[/B]
Hi Harry,
Thank you so much for responding. I had intended to suspend supplementation as part of my experiment and following your response, have decided 'now' would be a good time!
Crissy
04-22-2002, 06:21 PM
To the Pioneers...
Conventional medicine, homeopathic, naturopathic, accupuncture, etc treatment options are not in competition with each other and can indeed, complement each other.
A percentage of medical professionals have risen above the debate to seek additional knowledge in alternative treatments and have begun practising a combination of alternative and drug treatments (dependent upon the severity and risk associated with the conditions they are treating).
They have set new 'quality of treatment' benchmarks for the medical profession and in the process, singled themselves out for possible derision by their own peers.
These people are true pioneers in medicine and 'Case Health' and are to be congratulated for having the foresight to recognize the need for change and the determination to initiate and progress change.
If you are one of those very special people; your pioneering efforts are recognized, supported, and appreciated. Thank you!
[This message has been edited by Crissy (edited 04-22-2002).]
Conventional medicine, homeopathic, naturopathic, accupuncture, etc treatment options are not in competition with each other and can indeed, complement each other.
A percentage of medical professionals have risen above the debate to seek additional knowledge in alternative treatments and have begun practising a combination of alternative and drug treatments (dependent upon the severity and risk associated with the conditions they are treating).
They have set new 'quality of treatment' benchmarks for the medical profession and in the process, singled themselves out for possible derision by their own peers.
These people are true pioneers in medicine and 'Case Health' and are to be congratulated for having the foresight to recognize the need for change and the determination to initiate and progress change.
If you are one of those very special people; your pioneering efforts are recognized, supported, and appreciated. Thank you!
[This message has been edited by Crissy (edited 04-22-2002).]
Super Sarah
04-25-2002, 06:42 AM
Hi,
I too have used conventional and alternative medicine and all with good effect. I have used homeopathy and acupuncture and still do.
Conventional and alternative medicine are not in competition with each other and each has their own place. In an acute and life threatening situation, I would not hesitate to go to the ER, but in other situations, I find that homeopathy and acupuncture work better for me personally.
I also realise that everyone is entitled to their own views, but I have to say FaultyLogic, that your views are a little short-sighted. You say that remedies contain no substance and that is both right and wrong. A low potency does contain molecules of the original substance and is used to treat on a more physical level. However, a potency that is above a 24x or 12c does not contain molecules of the original substance. Basically, this works on an energetic level. Both acupuncture and homeopathy are energy medicines and practitioners work with Qi in acupuncture and Vital Force in homeopathy.
You also say that scientific trials supporting homeopathy do not exist. Well, I think that you have to look further afield than the US for these. A lot more clinical controlled trials have been carried out in England recently and these are continuing. At present, homeopathy is bigger in England than the States. The Faculty of Homeopathy in Glasgow carries out lots of homeopathic trials and continues to produce evidence that homeopathy actually works.
Basically, I feel that both conventional and alternative medicines have their place. Everyone is entitled to their own views on the subject and should be able to make their decision about what works best for them. Personally, I continue to use both with very good results.
Sarah
P.S. To the person who suggested some remedies further up the board - sorry, can't remember your name now - you suggested Hepar Sulph for getting splinters out? Actually, Silica is a better remedy for this, as it has the action of slowly drawing things out. Hepar Sulph is good for boils and anything that is discharging large amounts of pus in people who are quite angry and irritable with it.
I have also used Nux Vomica with good effect for stomach problems and recently sprained my ankle quite badly. I alternated Arnica and Ruta and within two to three days, my ankle had completely healed.
Sarah
I too have used conventional and alternative medicine and all with good effect. I have used homeopathy and acupuncture and still do.
Conventional and alternative medicine are not in competition with each other and each has their own place. In an acute and life threatening situation, I would not hesitate to go to the ER, but in other situations, I find that homeopathy and acupuncture work better for me personally.
I also realise that everyone is entitled to their own views, but I have to say FaultyLogic, that your views are a little short-sighted. You say that remedies contain no substance and that is both right and wrong. A low potency does contain molecules of the original substance and is used to treat on a more physical level. However, a potency that is above a 24x or 12c does not contain molecules of the original substance. Basically, this works on an energetic level. Both acupuncture and homeopathy are energy medicines and practitioners work with Qi in acupuncture and Vital Force in homeopathy.
You also say that scientific trials supporting homeopathy do not exist. Well, I think that you have to look further afield than the US for these. A lot more clinical controlled trials have been carried out in England recently and these are continuing. At present, homeopathy is bigger in England than the States. The Faculty of Homeopathy in Glasgow carries out lots of homeopathic trials and continues to produce evidence that homeopathy actually works.
Basically, I feel that both conventional and alternative medicines have their place. Everyone is entitled to their own views on the subject and should be able to make their decision about what works best for them. Personally, I continue to use both with very good results.
Sarah
P.S. To the person who suggested some remedies further up the board - sorry, can't remember your name now - you suggested Hepar Sulph for getting splinters out? Actually, Silica is a better remedy for this, as it has the action of slowly drawing things out. Hepar Sulph is good for boils and anything that is discharging large amounts of pus in people who are quite angry and irritable with it.
I have also used Nux Vomica with good effect for stomach problems and recently sprained my ankle quite badly. I alternated Arnica and Ruta and within two to three days, my ankle had completely healed.
Sarah
Meditate78
06-29-2002, 09:29 PM
so what do you consider a chiropratic with many degrees
(D.C.,N.D.,PhD.) This dr is a nutritionalist......do you consider that homeopathy,he works at a place called the family wellness center and he does not use synthestic drugs. I was told this dr got into this practice to save his own life when drs told him he would not live,he got his degrees,healed himself and reversed his symptoms and is here today to help others. Do you beieve that if the body is given the right nutrients (fruits veggies,herbs etc) that it can heal itself with conditions such as stomach problems,acne,cysts around the lymphnodes,hemmoroids etc...or are these things that have to be removed or healed by drugs?? i ask all of this because i plan on going to this dr because all the M.D. drs dont want to listen to what all is wrong with you,if you have a stomach ache they just throw acid reducers at you and your paying a bill for pills that you dont need.ive been on them for ten years and have the same problems. Wouldnt you think health, nutrition and exercise would change these things?
(D.C.,N.D.,PhD.) This dr is a nutritionalist......do you consider that homeopathy,he works at a place called the family wellness center and he does not use synthestic drugs. I was told this dr got into this practice to save his own life when drs told him he would not live,he got his degrees,healed himself and reversed his symptoms and is here today to help others. Do you beieve that if the body is given the right nutrients (fruits veggies,herbs etc) that it can heal itself with conditions such as stomach problems,acne,cysts around the lymphnodes,hemmoroids etc...or are these things that have to be removed or healed by drugs?? i ask all of this because i plan on going to this dr because all the M.D. drs dont want to listen to what all is wrong with you,if you have a stomach ache they just throw acid reducers at you and your paying a bill for pills that you dont need.ive been on them for ten years and have the same problems. Wouldnt you think health, nutrition and exercise would change these things?
rhody
06-30-2002, 01:45 AM
Absolutely. Healthy things like nutrition, and exercise can improve so many conditions. Standard doctor care (I speak from an American perspective) is important too, but "alternative" medicine has a very important place, in my opinion. It's alternative because it's not normally a part of orthodox treatment.
My whole life has been completely improved because of nutrition, exercise, herbs, and the removal of toxins. My many articles and statements on this healthboard surround those very issues. I once was so sick that it hurt to walk at times. I now run nearly 20 miles a week.
My cure was completely outside of conventional treatment. I discovered this by reading books and experimentation.
It was a search that lasted years. I linked my illnesses to my mercury-silver dental amalgams and I'm well today. Further detoxification with diet, exercise, and herbs was important too.
My whole life has been completely improved because of nutrition, exercise, herbs, and the removal of toxins. My many articles and statements on this healthboard surround those very issues. I once was so sick that it hurt to walk at times. I now run nearly 20 miles a week.
My cure was completely outside of conventional treatment. I discovered this by reading books and experimentation.
It was a search that lasted years. I linked my illnesses to my mercury-silver dental amalgams and I'm well today. Further detoxification with diet, exercise, and herbs was important too.
Meditate78
07-03-2002, 01:15 AM
hey thanx man for your reply,its good to hear someones success story. so what was the deal with the dental thing. i have fillings too and some that need to be fixed.......could this be a problem for me too? explain what you found if you dont mind. and one of the original things i was asking was do you think that nutrition and herbs etc can reverse lumps or bumps someone has inside that would rather have to be cut out by surgery,do you think the body can heal that when given the proper things?? ill look for your reply,thanx man.
Martyn Chilvers
07-03-2002, 08:00 AM
I never quite understand this term 'alternative medicine'....Traditional Chinese medicine is made up of many different therapies (acupuncture, tui na (a mixture of massage/physiontherapy/skeletal manipulation/reflexology amongst other things), herbal, diet, qi gung and tai chi exercises). These are not incompetition with each other but complementary and used in different ratios according to the problem. This is because the Chinese do not divide the human into different components and specialities but realise that it is a whole and should be treated as one.
To the Chinese, their medicine is the traditional and many Western Therapies are alternative and in many cases 'quack'....Psychotherapy for one because they do not understand how you can treat someone from just a metal perspective.....to TCM there has to be physical symptoms as well and therefore these can be treated to help the condition.
So taking an objective view...a simplified view....two different cultures have taken two different but obviously overlapping paths towards understanding life and health....one from the perspective of re-balancing and maintaining balance to prevent disease- taking the viewpoint that health is not merely the absence of disease but the promotion and maintainment of total health(east), whilst the other from the perspective of getting rid of a disease by studying it and finding how to 'kill' it (Western). To maintain objectivity, no one approach is better just different and should be coupled together not placed on a battlefield to find an eventual winner.
There is no alternative or traditional medicine....just the human being and the human being is made up of many different perspectives working together as a whole. Therefore in some cases one approach may work better than another, but this does not mean that it is the best approach....only the more optimal one on that occasion.
It also depends on the person....the Western culture is nowadays the 'I want it now, and I want alot more than last time'culture....and the medicine reflects this. Take this that or the other tablet to help this that or the other problem. I talk to many people who think they want an holistic approach to their health but in reality do not.....because as soon as you question them on their diet and whether they've followed your recommendations their reply is no....but then they still complain about poor health, headaches and loss of energy, etc. In reality they were just hoping that 'alternative medicine' could find the magic touch that 'traditional' could not......sorry doesn't work that way and if they cannot take care of their own health and their responsibilities to it then they are losing the battle....with themselves.
That is why TCM is made up of many therapies.....Qi gung and tai chi (ie stress relief and exercise in its simplest form) as well as the diet side is very much personal responsibility. It is worth noting that the Traditional Chinese Diet was not created by chefs but by the early Taoists....finding a balance to life and therefore promoting, as it were, health.
One final note in this mixed forum of ideas......science is not a know all knowledge of the world which we have tapped into.....science is but man created and is dependent upon man to supply it with it's tests, including the quality of them. An obvious statement but man does not know everything and therefore neither does science......TCM has been practising science for many thousands of years....testing experiementing and confirming procedures and practises.......it is worth noting that they quite happily maintaining that new knowledge is just round the corner and old practises may be not the most optimal but only the best as we now know it at present......They also realise that many applications of their therapies are therefore dependent upon practitioner experience.....which is why their most experienced professors still work on the shop floor.....
I always find it weird that many science advocates speak from a position of science being the great knowledgable master never to be wrong.......bring back Fraud all is forgiven!
To the Chinese, their medicine is the traditional and many Western Therapies are alternative and in many cases 'quack'....Psychotherapy for one because they do not understand how you can treat someone from just a metal perspective.....to TCM there has to be physical symptoms as well and therefore these can be treated to help the condition.
So taking an objective view...a simplified view....two different cultures have taken two different but obviously overlapping paths towards understanding life and health....one from the perspective of re-balancing and maintaining balance to prevent disease- taking the viewpoint that health is not merely the absence of disease but the promotion and maintainment of total health(east), whilst the other from the perspective of getting rid of a disease by studying it and finding how to 'kill' it (Western). To maintain objectivity, no one approach is better just different and should be coupled together not placed on a battlefield to find an eventual winner.
There is no alternative or traditional medicine....just the human being and the human being is made up of many different perspectives working together as a whole. Therefore in some cases one approach may work better than another, but this does not mean that it is the best approach....only the more optimal one on that occasion.
It also depends on the person....the Western culture is nowadays the 'I want it now, and I want alot more than last time'culture....and the medicine reflects this. Take this that or the other tablet to help this that or the other problem. I talk to many people who think they want an holistic approach to their health but in reality do not.....because as soon as you question them on their diet and whether they've followed your recommendations their reply is no....but then they still complain about poor health, headaches and loss of energy, etc. In reality they were just hoping that 'alternative medicine' could find the magic touch that 'traditional' could not......sorry doesn't work that way and if they cannot take care of their own health and their responsibilities to it then they are losing the battle....with themselves.
That is why TCM is made up of many therapies.....Qi gung and tai chi (ie stress relief and exercise in its simplest form) as well as the diet side is very much personal responsibility. It is worth noting that the Traditional Chinese Diet was not created by chefs but by the early Taoists....finding a balance to life and therefore promoting, as it were, health.
One final note in this mixed forum of ideas......science is not a know all knowledge of the world which we have tapped into.....science is but man created and is dependent upon man to supply it with it's tests, including the quality of them. An obvious statement but man does not know everything and therefore neither does science......TCM has been practising science for many thousands of years....testing experiementing and confirming procedures and practises.......it is worth noting that they quite happily maintaining that new knowledge is just round the corner and old practises may be not the most optimal but only the best as we now know it at present......They also realise that many applications of their therapies are therefore dependent upon practitioner experience.....which is why their most experienced professors still work on the shop floor.....
I always find it weird that many science advocates speak from a position of science being the great knowledgable master never to be wrong.......bring back Fraud all is forgiven!
Jay Tor
07-03-2002, 12:29 PM
Martyn - well said.
Many people mistakenly associate science with technology. Science is a recursive, re-iterative process. This means that every time a new piece of information is obtained, the entire scheme as understood up to that point needs to be re-evaluated.
re: the alternative versus Western medicine debate
About 10 years ago many medical colleges adopted 'evidence-based' medical teaching and practice. This means that traditional [alternative, complementary, folk, herbal, etc.] therapies were not to be ignored or scoffed at as long as these therapies had some evidence to back them up.
However, there is an underlying danger in this as well. This danger is in blindly, unquestioningly accepting everything as "evidence". Taken to extremes [linear reasoning], this might result in dogma [a compilation of "facts"] replacing understanding.
Science strives for understanding. This is one of the reasons there are so many clinical trials underway - because scientists are attempting to understand how and why alternative therapies work.
Many people mistakenly associate science with technology. Science is a recursive, re-iterative process. This means that every time a new piece of information is obtained, the entire scheme as understood up to that point needs to be re-evaluated.
re: the alternative versus Western medicine debate
About 10 years ago many medical colleges adopted 'evidence-based' medical teaching and practice. This means that traditional [alternative, complementary, folk, herbal, etc.] therapies were not to be ignored or scoffed at as long as these therapies had some evidence to back them up.
However, there is an underlying danger in this as well. This danger is in blindly, unquestioningly accepting everything as "evidence". Taken to extremes [linear reasoning], this might result in dogma [a compilation of "facts"] replacing understanding.
Science strives for understanding. This is one of the reasons there are so many clinical trials underway - because scientists are attempting to understand how and why alternative therapies work.
rhody
07-03-2002, 12:35 PM
Martyn,
"Alternate medicine" is alternate to standard treatment. But what is standard? I think it depends on each person's reference point and which part of the world that they are from. So what may be alternate in one country may be standard in another. Anyway, that's my perception of it. :)
Meditate,
I've written continuously about this subject on this healthboard. I don't expect everyone to have exactly the same symptoms I had, but I often write so that they will know that they are being exposed to mercury from each and every mercury-silver dental amalgam that they have in their mouth. Dentists for years have been calling them "silver fillings", but the metal of highest composition is mercury. This mercury leaks continuously from each filling.
I had fibromyalgia symptoms, loose teeth, and gum disease. This is mostly gone now, except whan I overdo it with too much exercise - then my muscles near the joints can be sore. It's quite controversial and I suggest that you check the internet about it. Just put in some search words like "mercury dental amalgams".
[This message has been edited by rhody (edited 07-03-2002).]
"Alternate medicine" is alternate to standard treatment. But what is standard? I think it depends on each person's reference point and which part of the world that they are from. So what may be alternate in one country may be standard in another. Anyway, that's my perception of it. :)
Meditate,
I've written continuously about this subject on this healthboard. I don't expect everyone to have exactly the same symptoms I had, but I often write so that they will know that they are being exposed to mercury from each and every mercury-silver dental amalgam that they have in their mouth. Dentists for years have been calling them "silver fillings", but the metal of highest composition is mercury. This mercury leaks continuously from each filling.
I had fibromyalgia symptoms, loose teeth, and gum disease. This is mostly gone now, except whan I overdo it with too much exercise - then my muscles near the joints can be sore. It's quite controversial and I suggest that you check the internet about it. Just put in some search words like "mercury dental amalgams".
[This message has been edited by rhody (edited 07-03-2002).]
Martyn Chilvers
07-04-2002, 11:38 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by rhody:
[B]Martyn,
"Alternate medicine" is alternate to standard treatment. But what is standard? I think it depends on each person's reference point and which part of the world that they are from. So what may be alternate in one country may be standard in another. Anyway, that's my perception of it.
I Think that's the point I was trying to make.....!!
[B]Martyn,
"Alternate medicine" is alternate to standard treatment. But what is standard? I think it depends on each person's reference point and which part of the world that they are from. So what may be alternate in one country may be standard in another. Anyway, that's my perception of it.
I Think that's the point I was trying to make.....!!
rhody
07-04-2002, 12:46 PM
Hi Martyn,
Yes, it sounds like that was what you were expressing, but I wasn't quite sure because you started out by saying "I never quite understand this term 'alternative medicine'".
Then consider my simple reply as support for what you said. Good job! I was just expressing it from my own personal viewpoint in my own words. :)
Yes, it sounds like that was what you were expressing, but I wasn't quite sure because you started out by saying "I never quite understand this term 'alternative medicine'".
Then consider my simple reply as support for what you said. Good job! I was just expressing it from my own personal viewpoint in my own words. :)
Martyn Chilvers
07-04-2002, 04:38 PM
Sorry if it sounded patronising......it was meant to be more of a "that's how I wanted to say it" sort of comment!!
Cheers
Martyn
Cheers
Martyn
SueA
08-04-2002, 11:49 PM
I have posted this under another topic, but I thought I would add it here too. I have a five year old boy that was diagnosed last year with Neurofibromatosis type 1. As part of this condition he has an inoperable brain tumor and spinal tumors. The Oncologist told me that they could not treat it until it was proven to be growing. (if it grew, it would cause irreversable symptoms). So here we sit waiting for something to happen.....Wrong! It is very hard to sit there and not do anything when you are looking at someone you love especially when they are five years old and have a life to live. I decided to treat him myself, had the blessing of his paediatrician and his neurologist was also okay with it. After alot of research, talking with naturopaths, doctors and emailing the world, I have him on a regime, which has not only put his weight back on and given him alot of energy, it has also helped with the optic hypothalamic glioma (it has decreased in size on the last two MRIs). We have had the symptoms that he was displaying disappear, we have seen the shape of his head return to a more normal shape. I have one lively healthy kid at the moment who absolutely loves preschool. If I didn't 'bite the bullet' and try the alternative side of treatments, I know my son would be alot sicker than he is. He will always have this condition and the potential to grow a tumor on any nerve in his body, but we have given him some chemotherapy free time and hopefully he can continue being healthy. I just wanted to say that there is a place for both conventional and alternate medicines. There are good and bad points on both sides, but a positive attitude and an open mind goes a long way. (Did I tell you that I have been a theatre nurse for the past twenty years and thought Doctors knew everything!) Sue
tampa79
08-06-2002, 12:28 PM
you all seem to know a lot about alternative medicine and how it worksl....i put up a post asking this already, but not sure many people read it.
have any of you heard of osteopure?
- the information i have about it what they told me when i called the 800# on the bottle. they told me "it is a patented strain of red yeast rice that is scientifically proven to re-grow bone". red yeast rice has been used for lowering cholesteral, i know that- but they told me that osteopure doesn't have the required dose to be used for that.
so it is meant primarily to re-grow bone.
i've been on it a month and i've seen good results (moved up from a -1.8 to a -1.3 overall). i like to believe these results are accurate, but am i being naive?? i am 23 yrs. old w/ osteopenia. haven't been to the doctor yet to talk about it...but i plan to. in the mean time, i'm taking my health in my own hands.
any and all feedback is more than welcome--thanks! kristy
have any of you heard of osteopure?
- the information i have about it what they told me when i called the 800# on the bottle. they told me "it is a patented strain of red yeast rice that is scientifically proven to re-grow bone". red yeast rice has been used for lowering cholesteral, i know that- but they told me that osteopure doesn't have the required dose to be used for that.
so it is meant primarily to re-grow bone.
i've been on it a month and i've seen good results (moved up from a -1.8 to a -1.3 overall). i like to believe these results are accurate, but am i being naive?? i am 23 yrs. old w/ osteopenia. haven't been to the doctor yet to talk about it...but i plan to. in the mean time, i'm taking my health in my own hands.
any and all feedback is more than welcome--thanks! kristy
Bettawrekonize1
09-11-2002, 11:34 PM
I believe that alternative medicine does work however it also depends on the type of fruits, vegetables, and herbs used. For example there are over 130 different families of garlic, over 240 different families of Aloe Vera (there are many different types of grapefruits, onions, etc...). Usually fruits, vegetables and herbs sold at grocery stores aren’t very beneficial. Since people find alternative medicine safer, more affective and cheaper than drugs sold at drug stores I believe that stores purposely choose plants that aren’t very beneficial in order to prevent people from switching over to alternative medicine. This forces people to buy very expensive conventional treatments that don’t work very well causing people to buy more medication making the stores very wealthy. In the past I have noticed that stores used to sell a larger variety of grapefruits, onions and many other plants. Now I noticed that when I go to a store there are much fewer varieties of these plants. For example one may always hear / read that there is no cure for the common cold. I can tell you for a fact that raw garlic cures the common cold and it’s virtually impossible for anything to immune to it (however if you cook garlic or heat it, it causes it to be ineffective because too much heat destroys the enzymes in garlic). China has used raw garlic to cure Tuberculosis, Anthrax and many other respiratory infections for over 2,000 years. They have used this herb to help cure digestive system infections for over 5,000 years. In the U.S people are given very expensive medication in order to cure these same infections. These infections quickly build immunity to these medications (which are made in a laboratory). However the garlic sold at the stores aren’t nearly as affective as the garlic used in China. Let me ask you a question; who’s smarter, a scientist or GOD? Why is it that the cancer rate in Japan and China is much lower than the cancer rate here in the U.S? If you buy Aloe Vera gel from stores it’s usually so processed (for some strange reason people think they can add and subtract components as they please, as if people are smarter than GOD. I guess that’s why people in Japan have the highest life expectancy, because people in Japan eat what GOD gave them unprocessed) that it has very little health benefits.
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Life is in the Blood
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Life is in the Blood
rhody
09-12-2002, 12:08 AM
Betta,
That's so good of you to write about garlic. I've mentioned that so many times. Why don't our doctors tell us? I think it's awful that we don't hear about this important helpful herb from the medical community, generally speaking.
I've not only stopped a flu or cold in it's track with raw garlic, but actually prevented myself from getting a horrible flu a while back (maybe one and a half years ago). Everyone around me had this gross flu, and I was sure (absolutely sure) to get their germs. But I escaped without a hitch. I had important work to do, and getting sick like that was not a good option.
I also like what you say about eating natural non-processed foods. I write so much about that here on healthboards also.
That's so good of you to write about garlic. I've mentioned that so many times. Why don't our doctors tell us? I think it's awful that we don't hear about this important helpful herb from the medical community, generally speaking.
I've not only stopped a flu or cold in it's track with raw garlic, but actually prevented myself from getting a horrible flu a while back (maybe one and a half years ago). Everyone around me had this gross flu, and I was sure (absolutely sure) to get their germs. But I escaped without a hitch. I had important work to do, and getting sick like that was not a good option.
I also like what you say about eating natural non-processed foods. I write so much about that here on healthboards also.
Super Sarah
09-12-2002, 10:28 AM
Hi,
Yes, Garlic is good to take. Garlic is also good if you have stomach problems and is very good for clearing intestinal parasites out of your system if it is taken as an enema.
Yes, Garlic is good to take. Garlic is also good if you have stomach problems and is very good for clearing intestinal parasites out of your system if it is taken as an enema.
Harry
09-17-2003, 11:42 PM
Meybe we should bring this Topic back for some real discussion!!!!
Chrislynn
09-18-2003, 12:01 AM
Yes I think it should be re-opened. I have some things to say about homeopathic remedies. I am a true believer in herbs and homeopathic treatments. One of the greatest homeopathic treatments I have used is ear candling or ear coning. This is an absolutely amazing way to clean your ears and a very nice cleansing experience, removes more wax than I ever knew was possible. Also echinacea at the first sign of a sore throat...bye bye sore throat! Garlic, is a powerful, natural antibiotic that I have used with amazing results. Onions have anti-aging properties.... I would love to hear from some more herbal and homeopathic individuals out there to share their experiences with natural treatments. I am currently looking to find a natural way to treat my post nasal drip.
Chrislynn
09-18-2003, 12:04 AM
accidental second post :)
[This message has been edited by Chrislynn (edited 09-17-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Chrislynn (edited 09-17-2003).]
Chrislynn
09-18-2003, 11:35 AM
Okay, I guess I should have said natural remedies. I am really more into herbs and natural/alternative methods of healing anyway. Although I have seen ear candling referred to as homeopathic on the net, so I was misled. :)
littlelulu1937
09-18-2003, 08:46 PM
Harry, your comment that homeopathic remedies are "FDA approved" is off the mark. The true story:
In 1938 Sen. Royal Copeland of New York, who was the chief sponsor of The Food, Drug & Cosmetic Act, and a homepathic physcian (surprise, surprise) had written into that law a "recognition" of ANY product listed in The Homeopathic Pharmacopeia of the United States by the FDA. None were ever tested & "approved" by that agency in any sense of the word. This also means that any remedy used by a homeopathic practitioner for treatment of a non-self-limiting condition, say such as cancer, a "prescription" must be written, but even that prescriptive remedy has never been put through any FDA tests whatsoever.
Like any other vitamin or supplement, the FDA does put labeling requirements on over-the-counter homeopathics. Also, in the past several years, the FDA has issued at least 12 "warning letters" to homeopathic manufacturers about the sale over-the-counter of products to (potentially) remedy the more serious maladies, which even by those loose
FDA rules, require a prescription to be written.
In 1938 Sen. Royal Copeland of New York, who was the chief sponsor of The Food, Drug & Cosmetic Act, and a homepathic physcian (surprise, surprise) had written into that law a "recognition" of ANY product listed in The Homeopathic Pharmacopeia of the United States by the FDA. None were ever tested & "approved" by that agency in any sense of the word. This also means that any remedy used by a homeopathic practitioner for treatment of a non-self-limiting condition, say such as cancer, a "prescription" must be written, but even that prescriptive remedy has never been put through any FDA tests whatsoever.
Like any other vitamin or supplement, the FDA does put labeling requirements on over-the-counter homeopathics. Also, in the past several years, the FDA has issued at least 12 "warning letters" to homeopathic manufacturers about the sale over-the-counter of products to (potentially) remedy the more serious maladies, which even by those loose
FDA rules, require a prescription to be written.
Harry
09-18-2003, 11:57 PM
The HPUS is the "Homeopathic Pharmacopoie of the Untied States" and it's the standard that all remedies are made according to that book of instruction. Not that it's approved for use and like any medication can be abused and mis-used. But, each homeopathic remedy regardless which manufacturer makes it has a tracting lot number printed on the container and is made according to the instructions in the HPUS. This is Very very different from vitamins, minerals, herbs and other supplements sold in health food stores that have NO standard.
As you know the FDA is sorta messed up last week Prilosec was a precription drug(PPI) that absolutely required a Doctor for you to use it ---This week it's an OTC drug--- now what has changed??? Has the safety, has the formula, has the side-effects, has what it should be used for changed ??? --- NO but anyone can buy it and use it. Is it now approved by the FDA--- no because it's an OTC drug, is it being monitored by the FDA???-- I don't think so , I don't know that it's even made according to any standard like use to be required.
Harry
As you know the FDA is sorta messed up last week Prilosec was a precription drug(PPI) that absolutely required a Doctor for you to use it ---This week it's an OTC drug--- now what has changed??? Has the safety, has the formula, has the side-effects, has what it should be used for changed ??? --- NO but anyone can buy it and use it. Is it now approved by the FDA--- no because it's an OTC drug, is it being monitored by the FDA???-- I don't think so , I don't know that it's even made according to any standard like use to be required.
Harry
littlelulu1937
09-19-2003, 01:07 AM
Harry, why dont you admit to your totally misleading statement & move on...trying to change the subject is just "bad debate".
Sarah68
09-19-2003, 05:58 AM
Please could you clarify for me how Harry has changed the subject, as I do not see how?
He has a good point about the PPI's going from being prescription only drugs to OTC's. What has changed about the drug?
Also, in what way is Harry's statement misleading?
Also, homeopathic remedies have been 'proved' and more of them continue to be.
He has a good point about the PPI's going from being prescription only drugs to OTC's. What has changed about the drug?
Also, in what way is Harry's statement misleading?
Also, homeopathic remedies have been 'proved' and more of them continue to be.
littlelulu1937
09-19-2003, 03:09 PM
Well Harry made a pretty clear statement in an earlier post that the only products sold in health food stores that are FDA approved are homepathic concoctions, while the truth of the matter is No product sold at a health food store is FDA approved as that agency doesnt have that power or even mandate over non-prescription medications.
Now I dont take either vitamins or supplements but my husband does & each one of them is clearly designated with both an "expiration date" & a "tracking number" on the label. Now I realize that independent testing has sometimes revealed that some brands of vitamin & minerals dont contain what they purport to contain, but neither I nor the FDA ever said they did and, frankly, Harry, that isnt even slightly germane to our original topic.
As to the prescriptive drug you mentioned for some reason not germane to the original topic either, why dont you do some actual research yourself & get back to us with the "story" rather than just spouting off about the FDA "messing up" without any supporting facts so I can get indignant too?
Now I dont take either vitamins or supplements but my husband does & each one of them is clearly designated with both an "expiration date" & a "tracking number" on the label. Now I realize that independent testing has sometimes revealed that some brands of vitamin & minerals dont contain what they purport to contain, but neither I nor the FDA ever said they did and, frankly, Harry, that isnt even slightly germane to our original topic.
As to the prescriptive drug you mentioned for some reason not germane to the original topic either, why dont you do some actual research yourself & get back to us with the "story" rather than just spouting off about the FDA "messing up" without any supporting facts so I can get indignant too?
zebra1
11-23-2003, 07:11 PM
Wow! A 3 year long post,crazy.Originally,this post was started by Brianne,she wanted to know if herbal or homeopathic medicine works.Once I read the post though ,it became clear to me that she just wanted to vent about her various friends tragic experiences with homeopaths.First off,ANY doctor,be they western , TCM or alternative,who says they can "cure" or "heal" you ,is a QUACK!The fact that her friend spent 20 years going back to the same quack,even though they remained sick,says more about her friend than it does about homeopathy.Even so,many people have written back and tried to shed light on the vast topic and I am glad to see there are educated people willing to share knowledge.I am a lifelong student of TCM and also a practitioner,specializing in 2 forms of acupressure,and have been ( and will be again) a T.A. for acupressure, at a local acupressure college.I am also a health care professional ,currently(and for past 12 yrs.)working w/disabled and geriatrics,in the community,and a student of rehabilitation sciences .Point is,I have studied the body from a western and chinese perspective,and I believe if people want to heal themselves,well,they better get on it...........because there is no magical cure out there for everyone .Everyone is a individual,with unique issues.I work with people from all walks of life ,and I can say that there are people that do not want to be well,they are literally dis-eased,they are not at ease nor do they want to be.Then, there is the total opposite ,people who just ARE well,will not accept anything less.I say ,if your health is a major concern ,and you want to be well, better start reading/educating yourself about the issues effecting you..At least then you can tell if a practitioner knows what he/her is talking about .I not sure if anyone mentioned the idea of societys need for "instant gratification"regarding our health .I believe(christ ,I see it out there in the community)that people want to be well, but they want to be well NOW!They try to figure out why they are in the pradicament they are in for awhile ,give up (out of frustration)and then start blaming the system because they are sick.Has no one thought of HOW LONG it took to end up in the condition they are in,and what they had to do to themselves to end up in such a sorry state.Obviously not. TCM is about preventing disease and maintaining good health ,on a day to day basis,Western med. is about treating symptoms as they present themselves.Personally, I use TCM , herbs ,excercise,diet,love,etc.. to maintain good health and if need be, I go to western med for acute intervention.
zebra1
11-24-2003, 02:43 PM
Hey Liz, good health to you in Queensland!
Bob2
12-01-2003, 05:51 PM
I agree with you in one respect. There is no substitute for going to a real doctor to find out what is wrong with you. Depending on the condition you have, herbs can be very helpful. I have Ostioarthritis in my knees. More than 2 years ago, I was limping, when I walked because of the pain in my left knee. I take Turmeric standardized to 95% Curcumin. I take enough to get at lest 1200 miligrams of curcumin per day. I have not limped in 2 years. Turmeric does not have any of the side affects of common arthritis remedies, be they prescription or over the counter. I also have veinous insufficientcy (also know as intermitent claudication) for which I take Hawthorne berry standardized to 1.8% vitexin. If you have heart problems for which you take digitalis, do not take hawthorne berry. They are antaganistic. Before taking the hawthorne I could not walk more than one hundred yards without my lower legs getting tire and start to cramp. Now, I walk 2 miles in 35 minutes and only have the mild tiredness a 61 year old should have after a walk.
My doctor is well aware of the herbs I take and has no objection to them.
I also take prescription medecines for high blood pressure and high cholesterol and high triglycerides. I'm 61 years old and have these problem because I didn't eat right and get plenty of exercise as I should have overmany years.
My doctor is well aware of the herbs I take and has no objection to them.
I also take prescription medecines for high blood pressure and high cholesterol and high triglycerides. I'm 61 years old and have these problem because I didn't eat right and get plenty of exercise as I should have overmany years.
DianeMarie73
12-02-2003, 07:00 PM
potato- what do you take and what were you symptoms?
mobychic
12-04-2003, 01:24 PM
kdoubleu is absolutely right. Do your homework on doctors if you can. Homeopaths can help enormously, but not the "fake" one that are only in it for the money and feed off the trust of their patients.
I also feel that any alternative medical doctor has no right to treat an acute, serious illness if they have a single doubt in their mind that their practice will not yield positive results. I believe that people with serious ailments should visit the hospital first (with caution), and then seek the help of a homeopath, naturopath, or nutritionist for consequent, additional treatment.
Then again medical doctors in hospitals sometimes have no idea what they're doing, treating patients incorrectly and ineffectively, and potentially causing more harm than good.
As kdoubleu said, you have to use your best judgement, and always have a personal advocate (friend) by your side for an unbiased second opinion.
I also feel that any alternative medical doctor has no right to treat an acute, serious illness if they have a single doubt in their mind that their practice will not yield positive results. I believe that people with serious ailments should visit the hospital first (with caution), and then seek the help of a homeopath, naturopath, or nutritionist for consequent, additional treatment.
Then again medical doctors in hospitals sometimes have no idea what they're doing, treating patients incorrectly and ineffectively, and potentially causing more harm than good.
As kdoubleu said, you have to use your best judgement, and always have a personal advocate (friend) by your side for an unbiased second opinion.
Bob2
12-04-2003, 05:55 PM
Brianne
What your message proves is there is no substitute for going to the doctor. I take both herbs and presciption medicines. The prescription medicines are for high blood pressure, high cholestorol, and high triglycerides. I take turmeric standardized to 95% curcumin as an anti-inflammatory to keep my ostioarthritis in my knees from hurting me. How do I know I have ostioarthritis. I was diagnosed by a doctor who took xrays to determine what was wrong. I take hawthorne berry standardized to 1.8% vitexen for veinous insufficiency in my legs. How do I know I have veinous insufficiency. My doctor diagnosed it. The hawthorne make me able to do my 2 mile walk every day without discomfort. My doctor is well aware of the herbs I take. They really do work.
Any herbologist or homeopath that does not insist that their patients go to see a doctor is treading on very thin ice. Any person who does not go to the doctor before trying alternative medicine is begging for death.
What your message proves is there is no substitute for going to the doctor. I take both herbs and presciption medicines. The prescription medicines are for high blood pressure, high cholestorol, and high triglycerides. I take turmeric standardized to 95% curcumin as an anti-inflammatory to keep my ostioarthritis in my knees from hurting me. How do I know I have ostioarthritis. I was diagnosed by a doctor who took xrays to determine what was wrong. I take hawthorne berry standardized to 1.8% vitexen for veinous insufficiency in my legs. How do I know I have veinous insufficiency. My doctor diagnosed it. The hawthorne make me able to do my 2 mile walk every day without discomfort. My doctor is well aware of the herbs I take. They really do work.
Any herbologist or homeopath that does not insist that their patients go to see a doctor is treading on very thin ice. Any person who does not go to the doctor before trying alternative medicine is begging for death.
Bob2
12-05-2003, 11:10 AM
Elizabeth2nd
I really have not thought about going to a homeopath. I live in northern Virginia abd there doesn't seem to be much alternative medicine available in my area. Virginia is a controlled by conservatives and they may not allow alternative medicine to be licensed in the state without great difficulty. There are a couple of naturapaths listed in the phone book near me. I've looked at herbs more than anything else because they are easily available. I have a bunch of books I bought to learn about them. I don't know of any homeopaths in my area.
I really have not thought about going to a homeopath. I live in northern Virginia abd there doesn't seem to be much alternative medicine available in my area. Virginia is a controlled by conservatives and they may not allow alternative medicine to be licensed in the state without great difficulty. There are a couple of naturapaths listed in the phone book near me. I've looked at herbs more than anything else because they are easily available. I have a bunch of books I bought to learn about them. I don't know of any homeopaths in my area.