farscape66
01-07-2004, 01:37 PM
If you are in a hospital and feel fine, can you just leave? Do you have any rights at all or are you required to stay until the admiting doctor releases you?
___
A friend of mine was hospitalized for a week for a simple outpatient procedure. He was later told by a worker there that he had such good insurance,, the hospital and doctor wanted to milk it for all they could get.
___
If this truely was the reason they kept him, has anyone ever heard of this before?
___
A friend of mine was hospitalized for a week for a simple outpatient procedure. He was later told by a worker there that he had such good insurance,, the hospital and doctor wanted to milk it for all they could get.
___
If this truely was the reason they kept him, has anyone ever heard of this before?
Sponsor
auntjudyg
01-07-2004, 02:33 PM
In terms of "rights", certainly, you can get up and leave.
The only problem I know of (though there are probably more) is exactly with the insurance company. If you leave the hospital against medical recommendations, any future procedures related to the diagnosis may not be covered. So what your friend ought to do is call the insurance company and talk with them (and get everybody's name, and preferably have everything in writing, etc.).
Oh, one other problem would be if something did go wrong and your friend wanted to sue. Your friend wouldn't stand a chance if he had left the hospital against physician's advice.
The only problem I know of (though there are probably more) is exactly with the insurance company. If you leave the hospital against medical recommendations, any future procedures related to the diagnosis may not be covered. So what your friend ought to do is call the insurance company and talk with them (and get everybody's name, and preferably have everything in writing, etc.).
Oh, one other problem would be if something did go wrong and your friend wanted to sue. Your friend wouldn't stand a chance if he had left the hospital against physician's advice.
auntjudyg
01-07-2004, 02:36 PM
p.s. Your last question . . . has anyone heard of this . . . yeah, there have been features on some of the news magazines about necessary surgeries being performed in order to milk the insurance, so your story doesn't surprise me at all, if that happens.
farscape66
01-07-2004, 02:44 PM
I assumed that you had no "rights". It allways seems to me like a hospital is a srort term prison or like school detention. I was unaware that you could just leave. My friend stayed there for days feeling fine, working on his laptop, he was unaware he could just walk out also. They make it seem like you must stay till they bring there little checkout survey and form in for you to sign.
auntjudyg
01-07-2004, 02:59 PM
Yeah, they use that subtle intimidation on purpose (and not that it is always bad, I think there are situations where people are not taking their condition seriously enough) . . . and I would think particularly so if they a milking the insurance company.
But I believe the only time you can be kept against your will in the hospital is if you have been involuntarily committed (for psychological reasons usually) or if there is court-ordered treatment (usually when people are refusing medical treatment for themselves or a dependent on religious grounds).
Otherwise, this is America, so you are free to refuse medication attention.
But I believe the only time you can be kept against your will in the hospital is if you have been involuntarily committed (for psychological reasons usually) or if there is court-ordered treatment (usually when people are refusing medical treatment for themselves or a dependent on religious grounds).
Otherwise, this is America, so you are free to refuse medication attention.
farscape66
01-07-2004, 03:20 PM
Well my "routine" outpatient surgery is friday morning. We shall see how hungry they are for insurance money. It's the same hospital my friend got to vacation in for a week. We even have the same insurance plan. Different medical conditions though. We shall see if they try and pull the same stunt on me.
Wittesea
01-07-2004, 04:11 PM
Keep in mind that while you may feel absolutely fine after surgery, there are lots of reasons why the doctors will still want to keep you in the hospital.
They do extensive testing to make sure that you have no sign of infections, that your immune system is working properly to heal, that your blood is clotting properly enough to heal your surgical site, that you have a proper red and white blood cell count, that your blood pressure is in the proper range, that the surgery went well and there were no complications (some potential complications take days to show themselves).
Yes, there are a very few hospitals that may try to keep you there for the wrong reasons. But the majority of hospitals (over 99%) do the right thing and keep you there until you are well enough to leave.
They may not always tell you the exact reason that they wish to continue to keep an eye on you. Many patients don't ask, they are just 100% comfortable trusting their doctors. Other patients don't ask because they feel intimidated or because they don't want to seem as if they are questioning the doctors judgement.
My friends mother is an OR (operating room) nurse, and her hospital once kept a patient after surgery for a few extra days because someone who was in the OR at the time of the surgery came down with the Flu 12 hours after the surgery. The kept the patient, because getting the Flu when you are post-op can be very harmful to your recovery. The let the patient go home once it was clear that he/she didn't have any symptoms of the Flu.
If you think that you are feeling well enough to go home, you have the right to ask the doctor or nurse to explain exactly why you need to stay. You have the right to know 100% of the information about your health and well-being.
Good Luck with your surgery :)
~Wittesea
They do extensive testing to make sure that you have no sign of infections, that your immune system is working properly to heal, that your blood is clotting properly enough to heal your surgical site, that you have a proper red and white blood cell count, that your blood pressure is in the proper range, that the surgery went well and there were no complications (some potential complications take days to show themselves).
Yes, there are a very few hospitals that may try to keep you there for the wrong reasons. But the majority of hospitals (over 99%) do the right thing and keep you there until you are well enough to leave.
They may not always tell you the exact reason that they wish to continue to keep an eye on you. Many patients don't ask, they are just 100% comfortable trusting their doctors. Other patients don't ask because they feel intimidated or because they don't want to seem as if they are questioning the doctors judgement.
My friends mother is an OR (operating room) nurse, and her hospital once kept a patient after surgery for a few extra days because someone who was in the OR at the time of the surgery came down with the Flu 12 hours after the surgery. The kept the patient, because getting the Flu when you are post-op can be very harmful to your recovery. The let the patient go home once it was clear that he/she didn't have any symptoms of the Flu.
If you think that you are feeling well enough to go home, you have the right to ask the doctor or nurse to explain exactly why you need to stay. You have the right to know 100% of the information about your health and well-being.
Good Luck with your surgery :)
~Wittesea
Rick7799
01-07-2004, 05:07 PM
I did that once and they made me sign an AMA form, against medical advice. I pulled a muscle at work and had chest pains. I went down to the plant hospital, big mistake, and they sent me out. I am sure they did that to cover themselves. Anyway I went through all kinds of tests and they wanted to more the next day. I didn't want to stay and told them so. They tried to intimidate me by saying I might drop dead if I walk out. I had this bad feeling they were running these tests because I have the best insurance. I was sure it was the muscle pull, and it was since it was years ago and never had a problem since.
farscape66
01-07-2004, 06:34 PM
Good to know there is such a thing as an AMA form. I thought you were trapped and they would forcefully make you stay with guards or sedation.
rubindj
01-11-2004, 05:29 AM
Lets back up a little here as well. The initial poster was worried about the doctor working the system. From a provider's point of view, I can almost promise this wasn't the case.
Most physicians don't get enough money from an inpatient hospital visit ($30-$80, depending on location) to come close to justifying keeping a patient a day more than neccessary. Remember that while you are inpatient, beyond the visit, they have to be on call for any nurses questions, etc. Physicians, especially surgeons, make their money on surgery -- not hospital visits. Why would they want to keep a person in the hospital, where they earn maybe $200 / hour for inpatient visits, when they need to earn $300-$350 to keep their office open, and much more to earn the salaries of a surgeon. In many cases hospital visits are a "loss leader" to a physician - required to safely do surgery.
Most physicians don't get enough money from an inpatient hospital visit ($30-$80, depending on location) to come close to justifying keeping a patient a day more than neccessary. Remember that while you are inpatient, beyond the visit, they have to be on call for any nurses questions, etc. Physicians, especially surgeons, make their money on surgery -- not hospital visits. Why would they want to keep a person in the hospital, where they earn maybe $200 / hour for inpatient visits, when they need to earn $300-$350 to keep their office open, and much more to earn the salaries of a surgeon. In many cases hospital visits are a "loss leader" to a physician - required to safely do surgery.
TomsWife
01-11-2004, 09:45 AM
Hi !
I have been working in the billing/insurance dept for a local hospital for years. The Dr's/Hospital do not "work the system" to obtain more money. Let me give you an example:
Say 2 people have a heart attack. They are both brough into the hospital and admitted. Patient A is and B have the same test done. They are both ready to be dischared and but then Patient B has another heart attack and is not discharged. You know what MOST insurance co will only pay a certain dollar amount per the diagnosis and thats it! It's called Capitation. Let me also say that the insurance companies really do monitor the drs orders/procedures. Sometimes, peoples insurance only limits them to stay in the hospital for a certain amount of time for a specific procedure. Heres two examples that I can give you: A large well known insurance company only allows 2 days in the hospital for a hip replacement. Yes, a hip replacement. The other procedure that the president was a addressing is a mastectomy. Lots of ins companies only allowed 1 day in the hosptial.
So, if you think that the Drs/Hospitals are milking the system, forget it.
I have been working in the billing/insurance dept for a local hospital for years. The Dr's/Hospital do not "work the system" to obtain more money. Let me give you an example:
Say 2 people have a heart attack. They are both brough into the hospital and admitted. Patient A is and B have the same test done. They are both ready to be dischared and but then Patient B has another heart attack and is not discharged. You know what MOST insurance co will only pay a certain dollar amount per the diagnosis and thats it! It's called Capitation. Let me also say that the insurance companies really do monitor the drs orders/procedures. Sometimes, peoples insurance only limits them to stay in the hospital for a certain amount of time for a specific procedure. Heres two examples that I can give you: A large well known insurance company only allows 2 days in the hospital for a hip replacement. Yes, a hip replacement. The other procedure that the president was a addressing is a mastectomy. Lots of ins companies only allowed 1 day in the hosptial.
So, if you think that the Drs/Hospitals are milking the system, forget it.
kellie2
01-11-2004, 03:16 PM
I am actually appalled that some people truly believe doctors and hospitals are that money-hungry. I was told by the hospital and my insurance company both, that if a patient leaves a hospital before the doctor has discharged you, you run the very real risk of not having ANYTHING covered while you were in there, because once you leave, the insurance company then has the right to refuse payment. Especially if you sign an AMA form, because they then have in black and white your signature that you left against your doctor's advice. So no, it's not just not being covered for something AFTER you leave, it's also forfeiting your coverage while you were in there. Yes, you can ask your doctor if you can leave, and chances are he will let you - IF he feels you are well enough. With the amount of malpractice suits being filed, no doctor is going to let his patient walk out of a hospital if he's not ready to. Have any of you ever been in an emergency room, or looked down the halls of one? Do you honestly think they're going to leave all those people laying on a cot in a hallway, waiting for a room that isn't available, while the hospital 'milks' someone else's? I hardly think so.
alleycat
01-11-2004, 05:48 PM
If you are in a hospital and feel fine, can you just leave? Do you have any rights at all or are you required to stay until the admiting doctor releases you?
___
A friend of mine was hospitalized for a week for a simple outpatient procedure. He was later told by a worker there that he had such good insurance,, the hospital and doctor wanted to milk it for all they could get.
___
If this truely was the reason they kept him, has anyone ever heard of this before?
No your friend does not have to stay he will just have to fill out a paper that says he is leaving aginst medical advice however he may have problems with his insurance later on if he can't prove that the doctor was just milking it for what they could get.
___
A friend of mine was hospitalized for a week for a simple outpatient procedure. He was later told by a worker there that he had such good insurance,, the hospital and doctor wanted to milk it for all they could get.
___
If this truely was the reason they kept him, has anyone ever heard of this before?
No your friend does not have to stay he will just have to fill out a paper that says he is leaving aginst medical advice however he may have problems with his insurance later on if he can't prove that the doctor was just milking it for what they could get.