in treating osteoarthritis? Anybody here use it? What are have your results been?

I've had osteoarthritis for years (I'm 58), but it's now beginning to get a good bit worse. Today, I started taking 1,000 mg of MSM twice a day, glucosamine (750 mg)/chondroitin (600 mg) twice a day and Coenzyme Q-10 (150 mg) once a day. I'm also taking a regular prescription dose of 600 mg of ibuprofen three times a day in the beginning.

Any thoughts about this?

Sandy

Make sure to find a reputable source for these products.

Studies have been done that say all products are not what they appear to be

in treating osteoarthritis? Anybody here use it? What are have your results been?

I've had osteoarthritis for years (I'm 58), but it's now beginning to get a good bit worse. Today, I started taking 1,000 mg of MSM twice a day, glucosamine (750 mg)/chondroitin (600 mg) twice a day and Coenzyme Q-10 (150 mg) once a day. I'm also taking a regular prescription dose of 600 mg of ibuprofen three times a day in the beginning.

Any thoughts about this?

Sandy
As they say not all poducts do or appear as they say so find a reputable one.

Glucosamine does have some anti inflamatory properties but chondroitin has been shown to do obsolutely nothing and it is best to get gluco without the chondrit. MSM didn't do anything for me either and Co Enzyme Q10 I've never tried. Mine is severe in the neck spine and hands and really just take anti inflamatory drugs like mobic and yet the best one that works for me is Aspirin if I take consistently which I don't.

hobbytools,

Buy a good quality glucosamine/chondroitin product (standardized for potency) and then take a total of 1500mgs of glucosamine and 1200 mgs of chondroitin per day, in divided doses. Give them time to work, say at least 2-3 months. Don't worry if you have a bad day along the road to recovery ...this is to be expected.

Also, I strongly suggest you add turmeric/curcumin (an orange spice) to your regimine...it acts as an inflammatory and is VERY effective and will ease inflammation very well.

I have been personally using these products shown above, for over 5 years and they are my lifesavers for osteoarthritis.
Before I used them, I could only walk a few hundred yards and I would be in pain. Now, I can walk and walk and walk, until my feet get normally tired, the arthritis flares up only on seldom occassion! (I have osteoarthritis in both big toe joints).

Been there, done that

WarBonds :p

ps....I try like the devil to avoid aspirin/advil/tylenol and the other NSAID's! At best, they only provide temporary relief, not to mention long term side effects!

I have found no side effects with glucosamin/chondroitin and turmeric whatsoever

Good Night :yawn:

Thanks for your responses! I started taking 750/600 glucosamine/chondroitin twice daily four days ago along with 1,000 mg of MSM twice daily and 150 mg of CoEnzyme Q-10 once a day (which I understand is excellent for wound-healing and why it may be prescribed for both heart patients and people with bleeding gums...). I've been taking 1,800 to 2,400 mg of ibuprofen for about five years now (with about a year away from that while I was taking Celebrex). I'd like not to have to take either one of them and plan to reduce the ibuprofen as the new stuff kicks in.

Actually, after two days, I'm experiencing much less pain already (strangely enough). Even my sciatic-nerve pain is almost gone. Only time will tell whether this is one of those occasional "breaks" from pain. I did hear from one person who started off taking just 1,000 mg of MSM twice daily and stopped having pain after two days on it. Now, she says she takes ibuprofen once in a while on a cold, damp day.

:wave: Again, thanks for your responses! They are much appreciated!

Sandy

A quick P.S.: I'm buying Member's Mark vitamins from Sam's Club.

There is a discussion on this and possible SIDE EFFECTS in this thread..
http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=128321

There is a discussion on this and possible SIDE EFFECTS in this thread..
http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=128321

Hi, snowmelts --

Thanks for the link to the other thread. I didn't see anything about possible side effects, though. If you're referring to the line about arthritis in the fingers, I took it to mean that there was little trace of the arthritis left except for the fingers. Perhaps I read it wrong?

Thanks again!

Sandy

I guess I'll quote my own post from the prior thread.

Generally speaking it is recommended to take both Glucosamine Complex and Chondroitin Sulfate.

Changes in the hair and nails are known side effects of ANY brand of Glucosamine Complex and Chondroitin Sulfate.

WARNING: Also Chondroitin is a natural blood thinner and you should NOT take it if you are taking blood thinners or aspirin therapy

It has had definate side effect on my hair. Not a bad effect but the first year I found it frusterateing so I cut my hair very short in order to control it somewhat. The Schiffs does not give as drastic a side effect to my hair so I'm wearing not as short now. But this side effect happens to a lot of people.

The natural blood thinner WARNING is a serious one. If you are taking either a blood thinner med or a clotting med you must discuss this with your Dr.

I guess I'll quote my own post from the prior thread.



It has had definate side effect on my hair. Not a bad effect but the first year I found it frusterateing so I cut my hair very short in order to control it somewhat. The Schiffs does not give as drastic a side effect to my hair so I'm wearing not as short now. But this side effect happens to a lot of people.

The natural blood thinner WARNING is a serious one. If you are taking either a blood thinner med or a clotting med you must discuss this with your Dr.

Hi again, snowmelts --

As you can see, I'm new to Healthboards, and I didn't see the page numbers at the bottom of the screen, which is why I didn't see your other post. Since I'm only taking an 83mg aspirin once a day as a blood thinner, I think I'm safe, but it's good to know that. My partner, a lupus patient, takes a heavy-duty blood thinner, Coumadin (Warfarin), along with 8 other medications, we always have to be careful about what new stuff she takes.

What I have is a glucosamine hydrochloride (750mg)/condroitin sulfate (600mg) combination tablet. It says it's comparable to Osteo-Bi-Flex and Move Free. MSM is a 1,000mg tablet, and CoQ-10 is a 150mg caplet.

Btw, I laughed about your "wild" hair. I could deal with that if I can get some pain relief. :D

Thanks so much for your posts, snowmelts!

Sandy

Thanks for your responses! I started taking 750/600 glucosamine/chondroitin twice daily four days ago along with 1,000 mg of MSM twice daily and 150 mg of CoEnzyme Q-10 once a day (which I understand is excellent for wound-healing and why it may be prescribed for both heart patients and people with bleeding gums...). I've been taking 1,800 to 2,400 mg of ibuprofen for about five years now (with about a year away from that while I was taking Celebrex). I'd like not to have to take either one of them and plan to reduce the ibuprofen as the new stuff kicks in.

Actually, after two days, I'm experiencing much less pain already (strangely enough). Even my sciatic-nerve pain is almost gone. Only time will tell whether this is one of those occasional "breaks" from pain. I did hear from one person who started off taking just 1,000 mg of MSM twice daily and stopped having pain after two days on it. Now, she says she takes ibuprofen once in a while on a cold, damp day.

:wave: Again, thanks for your responses! They are much appreciated!

Sandy

Sandy, i was determined to give theglucosamine/chondroitin a good try and took it faithfully toke the pills for five months, and it had absolutely had no effect on my osteoarthritis.

I have taken 800 mg of generic ibuprofen, and it is no cure but keeps the inflammation and pain down to a degree.

Their are no laws or guidelines that prevent anyone from claiming that dietary suppplements can cure anything, and not only that, you have no assurence that supplements are safe or the pills contain what they claim.

I agree with bruce, there are no regulations with these supplements. I tried it for over many months and nothing changed, but aspirin or ibuprofen really took the edge off the inflamation real quickly. Aspirin is a proven anti inflamatory as well as ibuprofen. The claims of glucosamine/chondritin have not been really proven, tho they said the placebo effect worked as well as any drug. So if ya think it is going to work, it just might. I think we get so desperate to find relief that any snake oil charmer can make anything sound too good to be true, which usually is the case. I tend to not listen to the the ones selling the product, like the commercials as having been in sales years ago we had to say anything to convince someone our product was better than anything else. most of these products can't back up their claims and until they do I'm staying away.

Actually I take mine because my Dr recommended it. He not say any specific brand to buy, he just told me to get some and take it. And my own trial has proven to me it is working for my knee pain.
However I am highly allergic to aspirin so I cetainly can't take that.. a lot of people are simply trying to avoid things like aspirin that tear up tummies. The glucosamine/chondroitin & MSM does not hurt my stomache at all.

I know for a fact it helps the pain in my knees from OA, because I took it a couple years under my Dr's orders, stopped 6 months and the knee pain got fierce so I started back on it and the knees are my least painful place now while I'm taking it. I'm definately taking it for my knees.
But I can't tell if it is helping my back OA. If it is then I sure would hate to feel this back without it because my back OA seriously hurts.

I would suggest trying it and see if it helps you. If you get no results then stop.
I think it is a big help to Osteoarthritis where most pain is from lost cartilidge, lost connective tissues and bone rubbing on bone but I'm in doubt if it would help Rhumatoid since that is so very different and mostly involves inflamation pain. RA is a whole diff ballgame than OA. I have OA.

That is interesting that you received poaitive results with the glu/chon.

my oateoarthritis is bone rubbing against bone in both knees. I visited my doctor yesterday and referred to an orthopedic surgeon, which i have been through in the past. I now have shoulder pain whcih looks like the same thing.

I don't trust suplements and it looks like i am stuck with it.

Just a note....

Glucosamine & chondroitin are not cure-alls or miracle workers.
Luckily, they have worked well for me, but did not cure my OA, as such.
I still would not be without them. Taking aspirin/advil everyday didn't sit well with me, so I went looking for supplements. Like anything else, it is trial and error whatever works okay for you.....I am glad I found gluc/chondr !!
Also, the more your cartilage is worn down, the less effective gluc/chondr are.

WarBonds

That is interesting that you received poaitive results with the glu/chon.

my oateoarthritis is bone rubbing against bone in both knees. I visited my doctor yesterday and referred to an orthopedic surgeon, which i have been through in the past. I now have shoulder pain whcih looks like the same thing.

I don't trust suplements and it looks like i am stuck with it.

An Orthopedic Surgen IS the Dr that at first told me to take the Glu/Chon.
My Primary care Dr agrees.
(OH I like that "Glu/Chon" abreviation very much, good idea)

An Orthopedic Surgen IS the Dr that at first told me to take the Glu/Chon.
My Primary care Dr agrees.
(OH I like that "Glu/Chon" abreviation very much, good idea)


Like i said before, i tried glu/chon for 5 months and never felt any effect. I believe supplements are a rip off.

Their are many quacks out there, and they have to prove to me they know what they are doing. Don't believe everything a doctor tells you.

Like i said before, i tried glu/chon for 5 months and never felt any effect. I believe supplements are a rip off.

Their are many quacks out there, and they have to prove to me they know what they are doing. Don't believe everything a doctor tells you.


I've heard some people say that they took glucosamine/chondroitin and MSM for months and never felt any effect from them. Others have told me that they swear by them because their arthritis pain was almost totally gone within two days to two weeks. It's the same way with many medications -- not just "natural" supplements. Some people take medication A and it helps them, whereas another person is only helped by medication B. Some of us find aspirin to be a miracle drug, whereas others can die from taking it.

Sandy

Glucoasmine sulfate is a proven cartilage rebuilder.
Tremendous help here with OA.
Again,, you must get a reputable source else might as well be taking a placebo

If bone-on-bone it surely won't help then.

Knee replacement is the only option left

Glucoasmine sulfate is a proven cartilage rebuilder.
Tremendous help here with OA.
Again,, you must get a reputable source else might as well be taking a placebo

If bone-on-bone it surely won't help then.

Knee replacement is the only option left

Technically they have no studies that actually prove cartilidge growth has been encouraged by these suppliments. They do have hopes that future longer term studies can prove it. Current studies only prove that for some people pain is relieved.

You are sort of Right about the knee replacement, but that is takeing the description in my prior post extremely literally.. whereas I ment it as a descriptive way of differentiateing the "feeling" we get from OA pain from the type of inflamation that Rhumatoid suffers have.

Bone-on-bone is diff pain than inflamation.

BTW I do currently have OA and I've seen the X-rays so yeah some areas are missing the cartilidge cushon.. My knee bones "slideing" sideways and becomeing misaligned so a times when my knee is bent and made straight again but hits a bit off kilter then all that hits is bone on bone and that is very painful. But there is still some cartilidge in each knee.

But 25 years ago in 1979 I had Just the cartilidge in one knee COMPETELY destroyed in an accident and had the remainder removed. So I can tell you all about real bone on bone knee pain for sure.. but cartildge does grow back naturally if you are young enough and nobody had to do any knee joint/bone replacement on me in '79 even though they took out all the cartilidge in that knee then. I regrew it naturally but of course now OA is there to destroy it.

Very interesting and informative, snowmelts. I appreciate your input. Several years ago, I saw a doctor of osteopathy for the first time, and he mentioned doing arthroscopy. One thing and another came up, though (as life tends to do...), and I haven't had it yet. About once a year or so, I'll get a shot of cortizone wherever the most pain is at the time, but sometimes it seems as if there's not much point in it. Occasionally, I'll bend my knee to get into the car and then something in my knee will "shift" and feel as if it's "caught" and I won't be able to bend it enough to get my leg into the car. So I sit there and massage and push on the place where it's "caught" until everything goes back into the right place again.

Not as bad as the night back in the Seventies, though, when I woke up with my leg bent and immobile and realized that the knee was totally out of joint. I had to push the upper leg bone and lower one in different directions to get the knee back in place.

Sandy

Very interesting and informative, snowmelts. I appreciate your input. Several years ago, I saw a doctor of osteopathy for the first time, and he mentioned doing arthroscopy. One thing and another came up, though (as life tends to do...), and I haven't had it yet. About once a year or so, I'll get a shot of cortizone wherever the most pain is at the time, but sometimes it seems as if there's not much point in it. Occasionally, I'll bend my knee to get into the car and then something in my knee will "shift" and feel as if it's "caught" and I won't be able to bend it enough to get my leg into the car. So I sit there and massage and push on the place where it's "caught" until everything goes back into the right place again.

Not as bad as the night back in the Seventies, though, when I woke up with my leg bent and immobile and realized that the knee was totally out of joint. I had to push the upper leg bone and lower one in different directions to get the knee back in place.

Sandy

Yes, exactly. If you are stepping down with your weight on that knee when it comes"out" thats a big ouch.
The arthroscopy is (I think) what todays cartilidge removal surgery is called. Be thankful that modern science has advanced so much since the 70's. When I did it in '79 they did not have today's MRI's and such so the tests were very painful themselves. And the surgery..oh OYE..anyway today it IS a huge amount easier although it's still no piece of cake really. I can tell ya when they did mine back in '79 that worked wonderful after it healed. I was in my 30's and grew all the cartilidge back very quickly. However I did not have OA then.

Good luck

My elderly mother did have a complete knee replacement. I'd like to avoid takeing that same path myself. She does need the other knee done but they told her to do it 12 years ago and she still hasn't done it.

My adult son was in an accident a couple years ago and had to have his knee completely "REBUILT". They moved some bone from his leg to his knee, used pins, rearranged things a bit ect ect ect. But did not put in an artifical knee. Very major surergy and a long time healing.

I have a neighbor who had one of these new "partial" knee replacements and it went nicely for her.

So I guess I've heard about a lot of knee things.

Point is that I have faith in the Glu/Chon even though no long term studies have any real proof yet. My knees know it's helping the pain if nothing else.

If your knee joints are rubbing bone against bone, their is no chemical or herb that will relieve the pain, and the cure is a joint replacement.

I visited an orthopedic surgeon today and that is what he told me. Bt the way, he was trained at John Hopkins, the number one hospital in the country.

Are you people telling me you know more about arthritis then this doctor? I don't think so.

I tried glucosamine and chondroitin for several months and it did nothing.Then I read something on this board concerning the forms of glucosamines.I looked it up and what I found is that glucosamine hcl is what is put in most supplements but glucosamine sulfate is the form that was used in the testing that was done.I started taking the sulfate form and it worked.Also,you need to consult your doctor when starting it,because the dosages on the bottles are too low.I take 2,000 mg in the morning and 2,000mg at night.It won't work if you don't take enough and you don't really want to take that much without consulting you doctor as I did.I buy a generic glucosamine sulfate which is a fraction of the cost of the brands that contained the hcl that didn't work. :)

If your knee joints are rubbing bone against bone, their is no chemical or herb that will relieve the pain, and the cure is a joint replacement.

I visited an orthopedic surgeon today and that is what he told me. Bt the way, he was trained at John Hopkins, the number one hospital in the country.

Are you people telling me you know more about arthritis then this doctor? I don't think so.

Sometimes we do, isn't it a known fact Drs know very little about pharmacology let alone OTC meds, it isn't what they went to John Hopkins or Harvard for. In fact when a saleman comes to their office to sell their products, the Dr takes what he or she said as fact not knowing there may be no proof to their claims. I'm not advocate of Glu/chon in fact I think the placebo effect works for some people and if that helps, so be it. when I walk into my rheumatologist office I know that there is one thing he can't intellectually know and that is how I feel, if you don't walk it you don't feel it. He may have the smarts as to the molecular changes etc but til ya have it you don't know. My Dr is a graduate of Harvard and is the first to admit he can only do so much and if I want to try the glu/chon to go ahead with the thought in mind, nothing is full proof or 100% reliable, no clinical trials are sufficient to prove one way or the other. What works for some doesn't necessarily work for others, as with any drug use caution and don't believe every snake oil charmer that is looking for deep pockets. I did my own trial and error and it just gave me a sour stomach, and I think it is just snake oil, someone figured out how to make a fast buck(to the tune of 4.5million last year alone)off people who are looking for a magic pill like I was last year.

I think much depends on what brand you use. I used Solgar and had results (but it is a little bit pricier probably because it has more glucosomine chondritan in it than other brands). I changed to another brand once (to save money) and had no results. So I stick with the Solgar brand.

When I saw how well Glucosamine worked for my older dog with arthritis, I decided to take the human brand. If I should happen to forget to give the dog her supplement I certainly remember in a few days when she can barely walk again without a lot of pain. For some reason I see good results within 24 hours.

When I was having severe shoulder pain, not amount of pain meds, muscle relaxers or physical therapy helped. There wasn't much they could do since my shoulder would not relax, no matter what. One day I started the glucosamine and when I went back for physical therapy I asked the if my shoulder seemed a little more relaxed that day, which she verified it was. After that I told her about the glucosamine. It seems in the should glucosamine, ibuprofen, and muscle relaxer were all needed for any improvement at all. When I started the glucosamine I knew the literature all said it took a few months to see any difference so I wasn't expecting anything to change for quite some time. However, it was almost immediate. If I would forget to take it, the return of the severe pain would remind me.

Obviously as with many things, there are at least some who will have no relief from a certain product. The track record from many sources seem to indicate that many do find at least some relief.

alice

When I saw how well Glucosamine worked for my older dog with arthritis, I decided to take the human brand. If I should happen to forget to give the dog her supplement I certainly remember in a few days when she can barely walk again without a lot of pain. For some reason I see good results within 24 hours.

When I was having severe shoulder pain, not amount of pain meds, muscle relaxers or physical therapy helped. There wasn't much they could do since my shoulder would not relax, no matter what. One day I started the glucosamine and when I went back for physical therapy I asked the if my shoulder seemed a little more relaxed that day, which she verified it was. After that I told her about the glucosamine. It seems in the should glucosamine, ibuprofen, and muscle relaxer were all needed for any improvement at all. When I started the glucosamine I knew the literature all said it took a few months to see any difference so I wasn't expecting anything to change for quite some time. However, it was almost immediate. If I would forget to take it, the return of the severe pain would remind me.

Obviously as with many things, there are at least some who will have no relief from a certain product. The track record from many sources seem to indicate that many do find at least some relief.

alice

Couldn't agree more, just like any drug every person is different and will react differently to chemical compounds. My hubby takes it sometimes and finds it helps, me it just gives me a sour stomach and I've tried all the brands.