Hey all,

I know there is another thread addressing this topic- someone asking for advice as to whether or not to tell their doctor about their addiction. Some people responded not to tell and others responded to tell...

I was very upset in that some remarks I made to the person asking for advice were taken as encouraging this person to lie to their doctor and basically "denying their addiction." That is the furtherest thing from the truth. I advised this person NOT to tell her doctor that they were "addicted" but "dependant" and wanted off the medication. I don't think in any way shape or form that is denying one's addiction. The word "addiction" carries a HUGE stigma with it, whether we like it or not and will be on your medical records. I told one of my doctors that I was abusing the pain meds (a very long time ago) and asked for help. Several months later, I went back to this clinic with a very bad cold and cough and after the doctor (a different doctor) saw my chart, he made the comment that he normally prescribes a mild narcotic decongestant but with my "history," he did not feel comfortable doing so. I remember how humiliated I felt and how ugly the nurses were to me. I am just merely trying to keep someone from going through that very same thing- not deny their addiction!

I search my heart before I respond to someone and although we may not always agree on every topic, to have someone say "How dare this person encourage someone to lie to their doctor...honest is the best policy..." really made me angry. I only want to help each and every person on this board and although someone may have had an understanding doctor when they confided about their addiction, others may not be so lucky! I NEVER told anyone to lie or deny their addiction...I simply tried to "re-word" some terms used so that that stigma will not follow them for the rest of their life. That's all!

I hope everyone is doing well tonight- just had to get that off my chest. Take care,
Michelle

John 3:16, your not talking about me are you? I don't think I implied that you encouraged Creeky to lie. But if I came across that way, my apology. Just throwing in my .02 thats all.

DCV,

I don't mean to come across sensitive about the matter and like I said we sometimes disagree on things and that's okay, but I just didn't appreciate that I was implying for someone to lie to their doctor and deny their addiction! I would never not want someone to seek help for their addictions- believe me, I have been there....more than once!

And no, I wasn't referring to you! :)

Off the subject, congratulations to you on your taper. I am very proud for you. Tapering is not for the weak at heart- it takes alot of discipline. I could never do it- my hats off to you! I know you are going to beat this- you sound like a very strong individual. Keep me posted as to how you are.

And again, back on the subject, to disagree on things is okay- it is part of life. I just didn't want anyone to get the impression I was encouraging someone not to face their addiction- I post every single day trying to help people beat their addictions. I just know what I went through at my doctor's office and how degrading it was and wanted to spare someone else that same humiliation. Addiction carries a horrible stigma- unfortunately!

Anyway, take care and God bless,
Michelle

Alrighty then. I'm cool, your cool, we're cool. Off we go to save our fellow addicts!........:bouncing:

Hi, DCV

This is the first time I am posting to ya. So, let me say ""Hello, and I hope you are doing well today". I am pretty much the "resident insomniac" on this board, posting at all times, but mostly on the "Grave-Yard shift.!!
I am glad you and John 3:16 are getting along. She is a very "special " Lady, and has helped me and countless others by showing intrest and compassion, along with very good advice. She was the first one to respond to me on my very first post. She loves to help people ,even when she was going through her very own W/D's . and she has a great sense of humor when it is called for....

And I do agree with her about the difference between Addiction and Physical Dependency. Its not just playing a semantic word game. It is based in medical fact. Over all my drug years, I've had both. I am fortunate to be past the opiates now. And although my ortho surgeon kinda freaked when I finally admitted to him I had become "Dependent" on the oxys he was giving me, I asked him to refer me to a Pain Medication Specialist. On my very first visit with him, he explained the difference to me. Do you believe there is a medical difference between the two words ???

Anyway, DCV, if you don't mind (I would hate to be too nosy !!), would you care to tell me what you are taking ,and what kind of wean- down plan you are on.???. As you already know, alot of us "have been there" too, so mabe we can help each other.?????

Well, Take Good Care, DCV

Kinda-Unwell

Kindaunwell,

I'd be happy to share my experiences with you. I don't have much time so I'll be brief. My nickname "DCV" stands for Disabled Combat Veteran. I was lucky to have retired in Feb, 2002 because the Army wanted to medically retire me in 1998 when I broke my neck. But, I told the Army I'd be willing to take a desk job and finish out my 20 years and have a regular retirement. I had been a scout in the cavalry for 16 years, and I was so happy in that physical, exciting line of work. Well, when I had my accident in Gulf War I, (Desert Storm) I had to have surgery to repair my neck and I now have a pile of titanium rods, brackets, screws and etc. My doctor gave me a number of opiate analgesic pain killers, from tylenol #3s to vicidin, to percocet to straight oxycodone pills and even MS Contin. I ended up hooked on the percocets without realizing it. I spent several years bouncing in and out of a binge type of behavior with the pain pills. Last year it got out of hand, my wife started to notice some mild drug induced psychosis, the dialated pupils and moody behavior, you know the symptoms, well, she noticed. So, we fought back and fourth many times over the course of six months give or take. I finally discussed the issue with my doctor, and he told me I was "addicted". I lived in denial after that for a few more months, and I kept getting refills of percocet, legally from a different doctor. Okay, I'm digressing here so, let me get down to brass tacks.

At the height of my abuse I was taking 20-25 percocets or straight oxycodone pills per day for a month or a little longer. One day I went to the ER of a local hospital trying to fool the ER Doctor into giving me some kind of an opiate pain killer, (it was a Friday) well, the doctor gave me some motrin and told me did a search of my pharmacy record and there was "no way" he would perscribe any narcotic pain pills to me, as hte thought I had a "problem". That was my epiphany. I went straight to the VA Hospital and spoke to the Addiction Treatment Program folks. I had managed to get myself down to about 10 percocets a day and then I kind of got stuck. I found myself searching the internet for a way to get pills through internet pharmacies, and thank God I never went through with that. I found myself contimplating what hospital ER I could go to and how I could fool them into giving me some pain pills. But, manaed to refrain from doing that too.

Shortly thereafter, I was able to start seeing a psychiatrist who specializes in working with veterans with drug addictions. So, I get counseling from her along with some effexir for depression and some clonidine for withdrawl symptoms and sleep. My family doctor put me on a tapering plan for the pain pill addiction. He cut me from 10 per day to 8 per day for 2 weeks, and he has followed that course of action. The next 2 weeks he had me down to 6 percocets a day for 2 weeks, the 4 for 2 weeks and I am now down to 2 percocets a day and I'm getting ready to come off of them altogether. Because I've been disciplined enough, and have proven to him I'm serious about controlling this he is probably going to give me perscription for 30 percocets in 2 weeks and challenge me to take them, only when I can't take the pain any longer and we'll see how long they last.

It isn't a complicated plan, it's a head on, in your face kind of deal, which is exactly my style. I declared war on my problem and, I'm going to beat it.

I'm lucky, I still have my health, I still have my wife and kids, I still have my house, my self esteem and confidence are growing each and every day, because I'm proud of myself and I like that feeling.

I agree with you about John 3:16 by the way. I know she has a good heart, and very good advice for the novices on the board, she is indeed an inspiration, to me and I'm sure to many others.

Additionally, I'm sure your right that there is a difference between a dependancy and an addiction. In fact, I know there is. The question Creeky needs to have answerd is which one is she? And in my humble opinion, she needs to be honest with her doctor, so he can make an informed decision on how best to assist her.

Ciao.

Dvc,

This is completely of the subjet, but I just wanted tp thank you for your service to our country. It takes a special person do dedicate thermselves to that line of work and I truly thank you! My God bless your future plans,
Michelle

It means more than you know to hear that......

Well, you are very welcome! I have such great respect for military and former military- they sacrifice so very much and people often take that for granted! You sincerely have my deepest respect! :)

Enough said about that, because I tear up everytime I think and talk about our military! :)

Have a good day, DCV!
Michelle

I agree, Spark. I don't think that you should not seek help for your addiction, but be careful who you tell!

once you tell the dr or anyone in the healthcare field that you are an addict or that you abuse drugs or pain meds,then you are screwed for the rest of your life.some people just do not understand addiction and thats just the way it is.once you are known as a dope head it never goes away-spark




Hey, spark-o-cet,

How are you doing today.???. On this subject, I guess we disagree somewhat.....
After my first operation (I had two back surgerys ), My ortho surgeon started me off on Vikes, and before too long I was up to 20 mg. of the Oxys 3 times a day,with Norco 10's thrown in for break through pain. It took me about 3 months before I told him the medications just weren't working (stopping the pain ) any more, and I felt I was DEPENDENT, not the word Addicted, to this stuff. It took him by surprise, and I think he felt some grief, because He didn't see the symtoms earlier enough. I kept on asking for higher doses, and was running short every month on the scripts. So, he told me he understood, that this has happened to some patients before, and he gave me a name and number of a Pain med. Specialist. To cut this short, in the end it all worked out fine, and I am opiate free now,

But their was no "stigma" attached to me. All the doctors treated me with respect, and concern. Maybe it depends on your doctor (if he is an a**hole or not ), but you have the right to seek help from a specialist, who deals with addiction as his Primary Service. If your reg. doctor didn't suggest this, or treated you poorly, its time to find a new one.... I've heard there can be complications for people who live in Canada, but not in the good ole United States...
Your medical records are between you and your doctor only. And it would take a "Court Order" to have them opened up to a third party...

I don't profess to being a genius, spark-o-cet, so if you feel I am wrong, please explain it to me, okay. ???

In the meanwhile, post to me and let me know whats-up with you...

Take Good Care, Spark.....

Kinda-Unwell

ya know, I havent had any trouble with doctors since telling my family dr of 3 years iwas addicted. I found new dr. and have gotton my pills just fine. I am very lucky I suppose.
Sam

That was one the points I was trying to make earlier, someone may have a very understanding and compassionate doctor while others may have a doctor who are afraid of "lawsuits" and bascially "dismiss" the patient while "black inking" their medical records- which is what I believed happened to me after I confided in a certain doctor and I cannot stress enough how humilating it was to go back to that clinic with a legitimate illness and be turned away because of my "history," not to mention the way the nurses treated me!

By going into your doctor's office and explaining that your are dependant versus absuing the meds and are a full-blown addict makes all the difference in the world- plus, you can still be helped for your addiction.

Sure, someone mentioned having to pay for consuequences down the road and sure we will, but receiving quality helath-care should not have to be one of them!

I hope anyone who is facing with the dilemna can search their hearts and pray that God will lead them in the direction that is right for them. God bless,
Michelle

Hi, John 3:16

About this subject (weather to lie to your doctor or not) , I have to admit I am not an expert on the privacy between doctor and patient. But I did always believe it, to be a right to privacy just between you two, unless you give written permission for him to discuss it with a third party, or a computerized program. As I have another doctors appt. tomorrow, I will definetly bring this up with my primary care physican. He is going to take blood, and check my thyroids,and whaterver else to see why I develope such a quick tolarence to both opiates and benzos.

Tonight I will finally agree ( with pain doctor's full support ) with what you and yinksy have been telling me for along time, <<<<< I am going to stop all medications (The Benzos), And see if I can stop this insomnia with an entirely clean body. Its worth a try because no matter what they have tried on me so far, after 2 or 3 days , the meds seem useless, and my next step would have been Halcion (SP.), and I know how strong and addicting that can be. I've used them before buying them off the street....

So, michelle, what do you think ???. You and yinksy's persistence has finally paid off, and has gotten into my thick, Irish head....

Write back,if Hubby is not calling out tonight, or if you exhausted him ,and you
still have energy left !!!.
LOL !!!, LOL !!!

(Triing something new)

Kinda-Unwell

Hi Everyone,

I posted this same message on the thread that I had started called "Need Advice On How To Tell My Doctor About My Addiction". There was a misunderstanding about what was said, and I wanted to try and clear it up.

First of all, I just wanted to thank all of you for your responses and tell you guys how great you are. Each and everyone of you gave me some great advice, and I sure did learn a lot these past couple of days. However, I would really like to clear something up that maybe was misunderstood by someone.

A few people had suggested not to use the word "addicted" when telling my doctor about my problem, but to use the word "dependent" because of the stigma that comes along with addiction. I want to clarify that nobody ever suggested that I lie to my doctor or not to go and seek help, so I am sorry if there was a misunderstanding.

I am very grateful that this information was provided to me about choosing my words wisely because, I am clueless when it comes to all of this, and it just stopped me from making a huge mistake. I can still get the help that I need, but not be labeled as a addict/drug seeker. I DO NOT want the word "addict" to be on my medical record, and knowing my doctor, it would. Unfortunatley, my doctor isn't very understanding and I think maybe that is why it is so hard for me to tell him. Whether I tell him I am addicted or dependent, I will still be addressing my problem and getting the help that I need.

Well, I just wanted to thank you all for the great advice. I am sorry if the thread I started caused any problems. Everyone has been so supportive and I want you all to know that I appreciate your help, guidance and most of all, your support.

God Bless & Thank you,
~Creeky

it is probably time to find a new primary care doctor , but make sure you get across to you regular doctor now how much you are determined to stop these drugs, but in the right way. and definately ask him for a referral to a good Pain Management Specilist. Tell him you will keep him informed on how you will be making progress when you are getting off these drugs. I don't see how he can be such a basta**, if you show him sincerity and truthfullness. After all, he was the one who was prescribing these drugs to you in the first place, right ??? I know I can only base my opinion on my expieriences with my doctors, B ut mine turned into afull blown case of dependency and ended up having a 5 day detox stint at my doctors hospital, at his suggestion. besides the hospital docs, my Pain specialist and ortho surgeon stopped by to say "hello" and offer me encouragement. I have great respect for these type of dedicated doctors. They would never stimatize me . I just hope your doctor , if spoken to correctly, will try to help you, and not just blow you off. If he does ,tell him you believe he has the wrong conception of you...

I wish you well,

Kinda-unwell

Spark,
I don't understand what you mean that once you're known as a dopehead, it never goes away?
My PCP and therapist, knows I've been addicted to pain meds as a result of chronic pain.
I've been to inpatient detox twice for a short while
I'm sure the pharmacy I use for the past 10 years has some clues.

But I can't think of one way in which it has affected my life adversely? I had a long talk with my Dr. today, and we talked about pain; that IF I was in a bad situation or accident where I was in acute pain, despite my addiction; he would have no hesitation to treat that pain with narcotics.

Could you explain once you're known as a doper, you won't be the same? And what is a doper, in your eyes.
thanks, Murphy

OK I'v read further.
I always respond before I read the thread!!!

Anyway, yeah, I was actually caught by a few pharmacies for even calling perscriptions. Luckily, I confided in my Dr. as to how bad my addiction was before the pharmacy called him to discuss what they were going to do with me. My Dr. was kiind enough to tell them that we are working on it, and I would be getting help, which happened very soon after that.

The only person, there's this pharmacist nearby; that he knew about my calling in scripts; and 3 years later when I went to get antibiotic for a very very painful and bad aniimal bite; he wouldn't fill it and instead starting yelling; you're a criminal, you committed a felony, why should I fill any perscription - I mean he turned into a wild man!
I started yelling back at him too. I wanted to much to report him, but then again, I didn't want to bring up that part of my life again as so much had changed at that particular time.

I think as addiction becomes less and less of a stigma, and it's sure a slow process, the less likely the stimga will follow you around for the rest of your life.

I don't care for people who judge addicts. This is not a moral weakness or anything.
Murphy

hey DCV, it was nice of you to respond to me with your history. I too am a vet, from Feb, 1975 to 79. Luckily, Nam was winding down and our people were comming home, instead of still going over there. But at 18, I was stupid enough to WANT to go there. My older brother was 101st Airborne and he saw alot of action over there , mosly doing week-long S & D missions. I deceided to keep my feet on the Ground and was 11 Bravo, Straight-leg. I did time at fort ORD, CAL and 2 years in Germany at Weisbaden Air Base ( Near Frankfort ).

I am glad to hear you are down to just 2 perks (Is that correct ??? ). Are you still gonna wean, or just take the final plundge and Cold Turkey it.???.
I had 2 back sugeries and before too long I too, went from the Vikes to the oxys. ( Final tally was 40 mg. 3 times a day) with Oxy I R for breakthrough pain, up to 75 ug/h on the Fentanal Patches. But I was pretty good at B.S,'ing the docs, so I had Duplicate scriptsfor everything, even 30 day scripts of the 50ug/h and 75ug/h patches. For quite awhile there I was going wild taking whatever ,without keeping track. I even sliced open the 75 ug/h patches and eating and sucking down the 72 hour med all at onced. That would litteraly knock right to the floor with the rush and sometimes I couldn't get back up for hours. My wife would come home from work and find me laying on the floor thinking I had O D'ed and was dead. Yet it still took alot of arguing and threats of divoice, before I went to the Pain Specialist and told him the truth. One look at me ( I was on a 7 day binge at the time, no showers and no shaving) and he somewhat insisted I volunteer to go straight into the hospital where he was affiliated with and start a detox immediately. The hospital wasn't too far from his office, so by the time I staggered in to the reception office, he had called ahead and made all the arrangements with the staff and in-house Pain Specialists Imust of scared some of the other patients waiting for surgery.I didn't care. I was laughing at everything, talking to myself, and doing the Irish gig. they put me in a wheelchair and put me in ICU the first night They hit me up with a shot of Demerol to shut me up and knock me out. Ispent 5 days there being trated very nicely by the staff, and the doctors would come in every 8 hrs. and give me a methadone cocktail. I did alot of sleeping the first 3 days, but by the 4th day I was feeling normal ,taking showers and shaving. By the 5th day, still getting my "cocktail" I never did find out what else was in it besides the meth. I was feeling great with no desire for opiates. On the morning of the 6th day, I was dicharged and given a script For a 5 day wean down off the meth.It sll worked like a charm and now I am at about 50 something days without a opiate and I don't even crave for them. !!!

Well I realized this post is turning into a book, so I'll go for now. w post back and we will talk some more....

Take Good Care, DCV

KInda-unwell

Good morning,Creeky,

I also wanted to clear up that I was not referring to you when I said someone insuiated that I told you to lie to your doctors and I thank you for stating that I did not tell you to lie to you doctors- I would never do that!

I think this all basically comes down to what kind of doctor a person has- some may have forgiving and understanding doctors while others (like myself) had a terrible experience with a very non-understanding doctor when I told him I was abusing the pain meds. I will never tell another doctor, unless it is an addictionalogist, that I abuse pain meds, because where I come from...it does carry a huge stigma!

Basically, that's the bottom line! I hope everyone can agree to just disagree if they feel differently. Oh and congratulations to all those who went to their doctor's and they were treated kindly and with respect- you were lucky- not all of us have been and we can only speak from our experiences.

Keep us posted, Creeky. Take care,
Michelle :)

Hey y'all - Let me ask you a question. Do you think being dependant and being addicted are two different things? I still say that using the word dependant is not telling the doctor the truth... we are addicted. I did so much 'skewing' the truth when I was using that I just don't want to do it anymore. I want to be totally honest to the best of my ability. That's all I'm saying, especially when it's related to my health and well being. When I went to my doctor for help, I was tired of trying to hide the fact that I was an addict and that I needed help. You have to admit that when you hide things, we are not telling the truth. That's all I'm trying to say.

Dependent? Addicted? Just a matter of semantics?
I suspect that if you use either word with your doctor he will know what is going on.......... especially if he is the one prescribing the drugs. Part of a doctor's training - to read behind the words the patient is saying. I wouldnt agonise over this.

dependant?? addicted?? yes there is a big difference...dependant is going 8, 9, 10 hrs. in intense pain before you seek relief..addicted is taking 2 because you MAY be in more pain later...

I, too, think there is a difference between being dependant and addicted. Being dependant on a medication means you need the medication to function or live a normal life and use it as directed and properly. For example, my father in law has had cancer and two back surgeries and is dependant on his pain medication to even walk. He uses it exactly as prescribed and very sparingly.

Being addicted generally means one has stepped over the line of using the medication properly and is abusing while using means not normally used to obtain the medication (doctor-shopping, online ordering, buying off streets, etc).

I think one who is addicted to their medication could go to their doctor and say they are too dependant and wish to come off the medication and hope that the doctor tapers them off properly and uses other medications to ease any withdrawals. If you were you tell you doctor you were addicted to your medication and have been abusing it, some (not all, but mine, for example) may totally "cut you off" and leave you to deal with your addictions yourself. Plus, the word "addiction" carries a stigma, unfortunately. Some doctors have yet to realize and understand that it is a disease- all they see is that you have lied to them and don't want to be sued!

It is a thin line, but there is a line!

God bless you all,
MIchelle

Dependent? Addicted? Just a matter of semantics?
I suspect that if you use either word with your doctor he will know what is going on.......... especially if he is the one prescribing the drugs. Part of a doctor's training - to read behind the words the patient is saying. I wouldnt agonise over this.

Hi, everyone

Well I have been reading this thread with interest one as a substance abuse counselor and the other as a recovering alcoholic.
As a substance abuse counselor I would have to say that addicted vs. dependent is a matter of semantics as we use the two terms interchangeably when doing biopsychosocials, treatment plans and progress reports. If I was doing and interview on you this would be some of the criteria that I would use to determine if you had a dependency/addiction would be (this is only some of the criteria as a full interview would be about 12 pages long and a 1 hr. interview to determine dependency/addiction):

1. Will use any means necessary to obtain and secure needed drugs/alcohol
2. Will take serious risks: and
3. Will often engage in criminal behavior such as shoplifting and burglary.

Reasons for use:
1. Drugs/alcohol are needed to avoid pain and depression
2. Many wish to escape the realities of daily living
3. Use is out of control

If I was doing a biopsychosocial to determine that you had a dependency/addiction to drugs or alcohol and you met any of this criteria then yes you are depend and are addicted.

According to the Florida Alcohol & Drug Abuse Association (which is the model that I use to counsel patients with) the process of addiction is:
1. Abstinence
2. Experimental Social Use
3. Problem Use/ Abuse
4. Dependency/Addiction
5. Recovery
6. Relapse

In order to be classified at dependent/ addicted to drugs or alcohol you only have to match two of the three you can just match the first two with is what most people match unless you are in a jail or prison environment then you would probably match the third criteria of dependency/addiction.

Now for as to whether you should tell your doctor that would depends on the relationship that you have with your doctor, as a substance abuse counselor (which is why I do not give advice on here, as I am held to different standard then you are even thought I am a recovering alcoholic) I would have to say to tell your doctor and be straight with him, and as a recovering alcoholic I would have to say the same thing to be straight with your doctor if you have a good relationship with him/her as you want someone who will not be there to judge you but to help you get the monkey off your back. If you don’t feel that your doctor is capable of being nonjudgmental then you should find another doctor to help you get off this vicious cycle of addiction.

Love & Happiness
~Autumn~

I do think that being addicted is different for dependant on medicine.
My thought on it is, If you are addicted you are going to be an addict the rest of your life. Why would it matter if your medical record showed that or not. If your diabetic it would and you would want that in there. I told my dr, she tried to help and then fired me when it did not work. I found a new dr and did not transfer records.
Just my $.02
Sam

Another thought...

My husband got life insurance on both of us several months ago. We had to "jump through hoop" to get this (a hefty sum).

We had to have a physical, blood work, and they got all of our medical records. Do you think if the word "ADDICT" and abuses pain meds was on my records, I would have gotten life insurance?

The only reason they did not get my records from this particular doctor that I had confided in is because I had been paying cash and not filing it with my insurance- thank goodness. My husband would have killed me!

Just another brainstorm,
Michelle

i agree, i dont think it is lieing, its looking out for your best intrest. If you were prescribed the pills just tell him you read that after taking them for a while you must be tapered off. Theyre doctors so they should know this anyway. But in the end if its either saying youre addicted or staying addicted, dependent, etc, id do anything not to need pills ever again