striper
02-02-2004, 04:31 PM
I'm not normally a board-type guy, but I have a teenage girl....
So here's a brief history: She's fifteen, so she's definitely in the window to have started smoking. Neither of her parents do, so there's no ambiguity about our position, however her favorite 31y/o aunt/role model does. Within the last six months, on rare occasion we've found matches in her jeans, but never pushed the issue. About a month ago, we had a talk, and she admitted that although she has smoked, she doesn't. I then practically begged her not to, as I strongly disapproved of the behavior, and she said she wouldn't do it in ther future.
So, of course, you can guess what happened next. About a week ago she had a friend spend the night. I was up late and smelled strange odors seeping out of her room, incense and uh-oh(!!!). Of course we confronted her about it, and she admitted that Brittany was smoking and she thought it would be okay for Brittany to do it in the house because it was so cold outside. (It's not, even for her aunt whom we love dearly.) We told that although we couldn't control Brittany, if she insisted on smoking, she would have to do it outside . There was no evidence that that later occurred.
So, two days later, matches turn up again in my daughter's jeans. This time we confronted her directly and the converstion deteriorated from "I have, but I don't" to "I've been smoking daily for two weeks, but it's no big deal, so I won't anymore."
Now I don't trust her. And now I have some questions, but I'm too emotionally attached to think them all through clearly:
Can I reasonably conclude from the evidence that she's addicted? I've read that addiction can occur immediately, but for teenage girls it's about a three week process. The two weeks she's admitted to leave me less than confident about her chances.
Either way, what can I do to discourage her? Will punishment work, or if she's addicted will that just increase the sneaking, which I hate even more? (She's an honor roll student, a competitive swimmer, and otherwise a good, caring, and compassionate kid. Oh yeah, and she knows smoking is bad on every level, and has at least temporarily decided it was okay.)
What kind of punishment might be effective? Whenever we try grounding her from privileges like her cell phone, computer and overnights, she counters with "I don't care, my social life is a mess anyway...nobody likes me." (She is both pretty and popular, with no shortage of potential male suitors.)
Finally, does it sound like she wanted to get caught? If so, why? If not, her efforts at concealing her behavior have been pretty dismal.
Anyway, her mom got her to promise not to smoke for the next six weeks, as this is crunch time in her swim schedule. That sounds logical, but it almost sounds a little too permissive on the back end. Implied is that it's okay to do it then, and I already have a pretty good idea which decision she will make at that time. But then, that's probably not much worse than my "I hate it, but if you're going to it, tell me so I can get used to it." (I want to get back to a position of trust, and I was thinking if she admits screwing up on occasion, then maybe I can believe her when she doesn't.) We've both told her repeatedly that it's not okay, that we're not financing the behavior, and we are going to monitor her lunch money a little more closely. But then again, she said flat out that since she's a girl she can just mooch any time she wants.
In short, I have no idea how to handle this situation.
Thanks for any help....
So here's a brief history: She's fifteen, so she's definitely in the window to have started smoking. Neither of her parents do, so there's no ambiguity about our position, however her favorite 31y/o aunt/role model does. Within the last six months, on rare occasion we've found matches in her jeans, but never pushed the issue. About a month ago, we had a talk, and she admitted that although she has smoked, she doesn't. I then practically begged her not to, as I strongly disapproved of the behavior, and she said she wouldn't do it in ther future.
So, of course, you can guess what happened next. About a week ago she had a friend spend the night. I was up late and smelled strange odors seeping out of her room, incense and uh-oh(!!!). Of course we confronted her about it, and she admitted that Brittany was smoking and she thought it would be okay for Brittany to do it in the house because it was so cold outside. (It's not, even for her aunt whom we love dearly.) We told that although we couldn't control Brittany, if she insisted on smoking, she would have to do it outside . There was no evidence that that later occurred.
So, two days later, matches turn up again in my daughter's jeans. This time we confronted her directly and the converstion deteriorated from "I have, but I don't" to "I've been smoking daily for two weeks, but it's no big deal, so I won't anymore."
Now I don't trust her. And now I have some questions, but I'm too emotionally attached to think them all through clearly:
Can I reasonably conclude from the evidence that she's addicted? I've read that addiction can occur immediately, but for teenage girls it's about a three week process. The two weeks she's admitted to leave me less than confident about her chances.
Either way, what can I do to discourage her? Will punishment work, or if she's addicted will that just increase the sneaking, which I hate even more? (She's an honor roll student, a competitive swimmer, and otherwise a good, caring, and compassionate kid. Oh yeah, and she knows smoking is bad on every level, and has at least temporarily decided it was okay.)
What kind of punishment might be effective? Whenever we try grounding her from privileges like her cell phone, computer and overnights, she counters with "I don't care, my social life is a mess anyway...nobody likes me." (She is both pretty and popular, with no shortage of potential male suitors.)
Finally, does it sound like she wanted to get caught? If so, why? If not, her efforts at concealing her behavior have been pretty dismal.
Anyway, her mom got her to promise not to smoke for the next six weeks, as this is crunch time in her swim schedule. That sounds logical, but it almost sounds a little too permissive on the back end. Implied is that it's okay to do it then, and I already have a pretty good idea which decision she will make at that time. But then, that's probably not much worse than my "I hate it, but if you're going to it, tell me so I can get used to it." (I want to get back to a position of trust, and I was thinking if she admits screwing up on occasion, then maybe I can believe her when she doesn't.) We've both told her repeatedly that it's not okay, that we're not financing the behavior, and we are going to monitor her lunch money a little more closely. But then again, she said flat out that since she's a girl she can just mooch any time she wants.
In short, I have no idea how to handle this situation.
Thanks for any help....
Sponsor
LL29
02-02-2004, 05:04 PM
Where do I begin........................hmmm... well I would say that yes she prob. is addicted and I feel bad for both of you because I know how hard it is on all ends.
I smoked or "sneaked" as a teenager as well but I at least did it outside or out my window late at night. I do wonder if she did want to get caught but I doubt it.
Sad thing for the cool aunt to smoke but normally that's the way it works because I'm sure the aunt drinks or used to as well - you know the "coooool scene." Unfortunately.
Does she LOVE swimming and does she plan on continuing that? If so - let her know that she'll be LAST place in everything she does because it's only a matter of time until her lungs won't have the capacity they used to. Also Oprah had this special recently with all different body parts on it and the effects of smoking, drinking, etc.. so you might want to try and get a copy of that tape and show her.
Also - VANITY - I was prom queen/cheerleader in high school so I wasn't lacking for men either, but if someone would've shown me what smoking will do to me as I continued to smoke (skin - your pores get bigger and bigger and you get this leathery look as if tanning too much), then I would've quit.
Let's not even mention the whole cancer thing - or a hole in your throat. I would find all of the nastiest pictures, etc.. and show her what it does to you. You can also call the american lung association and american cancer society and they can advise you as well and prob. even better and send you free info in the mail.
I would get some of Dr. Phil's book or do a search on communicating with your teenager, etc... and read up on how to get them to be on your team because let me tell ya - the competition is VERY tough for you right now. Teenagers don't want to be bothered with prude parents (that's what they think) and just really don't care so you have to find a way to show them why it is important.
Maybe tell her that if you even show much as ever smell it on her (make her stand away from friends) then you'll tell her swimming coach and everyone else that she wouldn't want to know. Also let her know that guys hate it even if they don't tell her and her breath with become a sewer if she continues and no one will want to kiss her.
I could go on and on but this should be good for now. LOL (laughin out loud)
I wish you the very best of success with this and if all else fails - please send her out here and tell her to ask for me. :) Also let her read the lung cancer boards - it's a shame all of the hurt people have to go thru due to smoking - let alone be given 3 months to live. Not fun saying goodbye to your family with only 3 months to live if you're that lucky. Oh and just because the normal statistic is you have to be OLDER for it to happen - there are people dying now in their 20's and 30's so something has changed. Find a way to make her care.
We'll be here to support you and her :)
Laurie
I smoked or "sneaked" as a teenager as well but I at least did it outside or out my window late at night. I do wonder if she did want to get caught but I doubt it.
Sad thing for the cool aunt to smoke but normally that's the way it works because I'm sure the aunt drinks or used to as well - you know the "coooool scene." Unfortunately.
Does she LOVE swimming and does she plan on continuing that? If so - let her know that she'll be LAST place in everything she does because it's only a matter of time until her lungs won't have the capacity they used to. Also Oprah had this special recently with all different body parts on it and the effects of smoking, drinking, etc.. so you might want to try and get a copy of that tape and show her.
Also - VANITY - I was prom queen/cheerleader in high school so I wasn't lacking for men either, but if someone would've shown me what smoking will do to me as I continued to smoke (skin - your pores get bigger and bigger and you get this leathery look as if tanning too much), then I would've quit.
Let's not even mention the whole cancer thing - or a hole in your throat. I would find all of the nastiest pictures, etc.. and show her what it does to you. You can also call the american lung association and american cancer society and they can advise you as well and prob. even better and send you free info in the mail.
I would get some of Dr. Phil's book or do a search on communicating with your teenager, etc... and read up on how to get them to be on your team because let me tell ya - the competition is VERY tough for you right now. Teenagers don't want to be bothered with prude parents (that's what they think) and just really don't care so you have to find a way to show them why it is important.
Maybe tell her that if you even show much as ever smell it on her (make her stand away from friends) then you'll tell her swimming coach and everyone else that she wouldn't want to know. Also let her know that guys hate it even if they don't tell her and her breath with become a sewer if she continues and no one will want to kiss her.
I could go on and on but this should be good for now. LOL (laughin out loud)
I wish you the very best of success with this and if all else fails - please send her out here and tell her to ask for me. :) Also let her read the lung cancer boards - it's a shame all of the hurt people have to go thru due to smoking - let alone be given 3 months to live. Not fun saying goodbye to your family with only 3 months to live if you're that lucky. Oh and just because the normal statistic is you have to be OLDER for it to happen - there are people dying now in their 20's and 30's so something has changed. Find a way to make her care.
We'll be here to support you and her :)
Laurie
smartgal
02-02-2004, 05:46 PM
One thing for her to know. Most DNA damage is done to people who started smoking before the age of 21. Her lungs are still developing because she has not reached full growth. If she must smoke (which of course we hope she doesn't) tell her to at least wait until her body is fully grown. As smoking is a rebellion of sorts, punishment will be difficult, and may actually cause an escalation of the behavior. The only thing my mother did to prevent us from doing something, was laugh at us and say it was ridiculous. We didn't want to be seen as fools.
LL29
02-02-2004, 05:55 PM
Where are you from guilty? I do think it matters where you're from, culture, how you're raised, etc...
I walked all over my Mom when I lived with her because she was too easy and the punishment was very weak if any. I ran that household. When I moved to my Dad's house 2 hours away (I'm from PA but live in charlotte, NC now) - he wasn't having that and I must say his discipline and punishment did add years to my life because if you limit access - guess what - they can't smoke.
I think punishment might become an option because #1 she won't be tempted if she's not around it as much as she is now #2 she needs to learn consequences or maybe harsher ones for her actions at least til she's 18 and out of the house and #3 respect for her parents and their home (thinking Brittany could smoke in her room - absurd since the aunt isn't even allowed).
I'm just a firm believer of discipline and I'm an accountant for a residential therapeutic facility for adolescents. The more disciplined homes are the better kids. When you're too nice or easy they don't respect you as much and take advantage of your kindness. At least that's the proven statistic here.
But depending on where you're from - guilty may be right and if she thinks that way it may work. I think she's a cocky teenager like I was so I used me. LOL
I walked all over my Mom when I lived with her because she was too easy and the punishment was very weak if any. I ran that household. When I moved to my Dad's house 2 hours away (I'm from PA but live in charlotte, NC now) - he wasn't having that and I must say his discipline and punishment did add years to my life because if you limit access - guess what - they can't smoke.
I think punishment might become an option because #1 she won't be tempted if she's not around it as much as she is now #2 she needs to learn consequences or maybe harsher ones for her actions at least til she's 18 and out of the house and #3 respect for her parents and their home (thinking Brittany could smoke in her room - absurd since the aunt isn't even allowed).
I'm just a firm believer of discipline and I'm an accountant for a residential therapeutic facility for adolescents. The more disciplined homes are the better kids. When you're too nice or easy they don't respect you as much and take advantage of your kindness. At least that's the proven statistic here.
But depending on where you're from - guilty may be right and if she thinks that way it may work. I think she's a cocky teenager like I was so I used me. LOL
smartgal
02-02-2004, 07:13 PM
I was born down south but raised most of my life in Seattle. My mother was a master at guilt. She had it down to a science. Put regular punishment, grounding, taking away something, whatever, just made me angry and I wanted to do something all the more. I figured it must be really good if she was so worried about it! Laughing at someone who smokes and telling them it's stupid takes all the "cool" factor out of it. It is not a "forbidden fruit" anymore. I guess it really depends on the type of person you are dealing with.
Invincible
02-02-2004, 07:37 PM
Have you considered asking the 31 year old smoking aunt to speak to her? I bet the aunt (your sister?) by now doesn't think it's 'so cool' ... I bet she's started to see how smoking affects her life/skin/health etc... maybe if your daughter heard it first hand, she may think again.
If you could get this aunt to do the 'I wish I had never started' bit ... and name all the disadvantages to her, it may make her realise that it's not cool ... and this type of rebellion is in fact a rebellion on herself ... only she will suffer in the end.
I think it needs to be approached from a psychological angle ... it is unlikely that she is fully addicted right now ... from my experience, the first 1-2 years, teenagers are just 'play' smoking ... then suddenly they find they 'need' one.. and another and another ...
Good luck!
If you could get this aunt to do the 'I wish I had never started' bit ... and name all the disadvantages to her, it may make her realise that it's not cool ... and this type of rebellion is in fact a rebellion on herself ... only she will suffer in the end.
I think it needs to be approached from a psychological angle ... it is unlikely that she is fully addicted right now ... from my experience, the first 1-2 years, teenagers are just 'play' smoking ... then suddenly they find they 'need' one.. and another and another ...
Good luck!
LL29
02-02-2004, 10:37 PM
I think she's been smoking for a lot longer - when the matches were found the first time - she was prob. smoking months before or just finally got careless and got caught.
I hear ya guilty - it may work - the reverse psychology thing and I think that's a good idea Invinc on the aunt thing. It would be nice if she were ready to quit too huh? Tell the aunt to come out here. LOL
Time will tell - it'll be interesting to see - I hope she quits for real. I honestly was addicted to smoking in high school. I eventually was smoking out at the bus stop in the morning (hiding) or if I couldn't if mom or dad was up then I would smoke before I went into the high school, smoking off school grounds if I could get away or any after school functions while not cheering, etc... We were even smoking in the bathrooms at school and it wasn't allowed then. Nowadays I think they even allow smoking sections on high school places - it's insane.
Ok waiting now. LOL
Laurie
I hear ya guilty - it may work - the reverse psychology thing and I think that's a good idea Invinc on the aunt thing. It would be nice if she were ready to quit too huh? Tell the aunt to come out here. LOL
Time will tell - it'll be interesting to see - I hope she quits for real. I honestly was addicted to smoking in high school. I eventually was smoking out at the bus stop in the morning (hiding) or if I couldn't if mom or dad was up then I would smoke before I went into the high school, smoking off school grounds if I could get away or any after school functions while not cheering, etc... We were even smoking in the bathrooms at school and it wasn't allowed then. Nowadays I think they even allow smoking sections on high school places - it's insane.
Ok waiting now. LOL
Laurie
striper
02-03-2004, 12:43 AM
Laurie, I think you're probably right...I think it's been going on for awhile. How long, I don't know, but I can think of no other good reason for the matches. I don't think, however, that she's as involved at this point as you were. She's not smoking at school, or if she is, she's never been caught. (We can check detentions online, and so far so good.) At this point I think she's limited to one or two after school, and whatever she does at parties, basketball games, whatever. In another day or two, I intend to ask her if she's smoked since she made the promise not to. If she says yes, then I have a much better idea on the addiction angle, as well as the trust thing. (She did say she would tell me if she had.) If she says no, I'm still left up in the air.
Invincible...I've thought about the aunt (my wife's sister) thing, but she's not ready to quit, so her message would be mixed at best. However, I would get a clear answer to the yes or no question above. Also, the aunt did talk to the kid about it, but that was at the first coming out party I mentioned-the "I have, but I don't" session. I'm afraid that since I was there there was no way they got down to the nitty gritty.
Guilty...although I'm not able to laugh about it-yes, I do know where you're coming from-I share the same concerns about punishment. And I'm wondering if I take the stealth and "badness" out of the behavior, will I also lessen the appeal? The forbidden fruit, as you say. (I've used that exact phrase with my wife in our discussions over this.) Again, too, if punishment is an option, what type?
If it makes any difference, I'm from the midwest. We live in a small town, pop. 4,000, where it seems like every friggin' girl smokes.
My daughter definitely can be a cocky kid at times, as Laurie mentioned, but I don't really see the smoking as a rebellion thing. If it is, I'm not sure what she's rebelling against. She's described it as something she likes "sometimes" and "just something to do, since I can't drink." I do think it's a way for her to act/feel more grown up, as it is an adult decision. Unfortunately, she is still a kid, and her adult decision making skills aren't quite up to snuff yet.
Anyway, thanks for the replies so far...it helps to talk about it.
Invincible...I've thought about the aunt (my wife's sister) thing, but she's not ready to quit, so her message would be mixed at best. However, I would get a clear answer to the yes or no question above. Also, the aunt did talk to the kid about it, but that was at the first coming out party I mentioned-the "I have, but I don't" session. I'm afraid that since I was there there was no way they got down to the nitty gritty.
Guilty...although I'm not able to laugh about it-yes, I do know where you're coming from-I share the same concerns about punishment. And I'm wondering if I take the stealth and "badness" out of the behavior, will I also lessen the appeal? The forbidden fruit, as you say. (I've used that exact phrase with my wife in our discussions over this.) Again, too, if punishment is an option, what type?
If it makes any difference, I'm from the midwest. We live in a small town, pop. 4,000, where it seems like every friggin' girl smokes.
My daughter definitely can be a cocky kid at times, as Laurie mentioned, but I don't really see the smoking as a rebellion thing. If it is, I'm not sure what she's rebelling against. She's described it as something she likes "sometimes" and "just something to do, since I can't drink." I do think it's a way for her to act/feel more grown up, as it is an adult decision. Unfortunately, she is still a kid, and her adult decision making skills aren't quite up to snuff yet.
Anyway, thanks for the replies so far...it helps to talk about it.
LL29
02-03-2004, 11:31 AM
Hi striper and when I started smoking - it was the girls around the area and 4K population in PA was prob. about right for Three Springs, PA or out in the middle of nowhere so there wasn't much else to do but smoke or drink or whatever.
I was only having two a day for a long time because it was hard to do it and then of course you wreak of it too so it's hard to hide. You might want to do a daily "sniff" each day. LOL
Oh and when I smoked in school or off grounds - I was NEVER caught. It's too easy to get away with it because the teachers can't be everywhere all the time - just too many kids to track and maybe be thankful she's not doing worse drugs or the illegal ones that can get her arrested. Then again she is under 18 yrs. old so what happens if she is caught?
You know you daughter better than us of course so if you think the reverse psychology will work - maybe try it but your daughter may be too smart for that and then if you play that role - then you mine as well allow her to smoke in the house and then she'll really get addicted. I don't think it's worth the risk is my thing because there's no guarantee it'll work out that way.
That's the hard part too when all the girls around there are smoking - makes it rough for a chosen few to not. That's why I asked if she was really into swimming or whatever because the ones that didn't smoke were highly involved with something. The smokers were just "hangin out" mostly. Is there anything to do there?
I would prob. focus on the vanity issues because the doctor on oprah said all the health reasons in the world normally don't get women to quit, but as soon as he points out the wrinkles and lines on their faces from smoking - they quit. Go figure.
Good luck :)
Laurie
I was only having two a day for a long time because it was hard to do it and then of course you wreak of it too so it's hard to hide. You might want to do a daily "sniff" each day. LOL
Oh and when I smoked in school or off grounds - I was NEVER caught. It's too easy to get away with it because the teachers can't be everywhere all the time - just too many kids to track and maybe be thankful she's not doing worse drugs or the illegal ones that can get her arrested. Then again she is under 18 yrs. old so what happens if she is caught?
You know you daughter better than us of course so if you think the reverse psychology will work - maybe try it but your daughter may be too smart for that and then if you play that role - then you mine as well allow her to smoke in the house and then she'll really get addicted. I don't think it's worth the risk is my thing because there's no guarantee it'll work out that way.
That's the hard part too when all the girls around there are smoking - makes it rough for a chosen few to not. That's why I asked if she was really into swimming or whatever because the ones that didn't smoke were highly involved with something. The smokers were just "hangin out" mostly. Is there anything to do there?
I would prob. focus on the vanity issues because the doctor on oprah said all the health reasons in the world normally don't get women to quit, but as soon as he points out the wrinkles and lines on their faces from smoking - they quit. Go figure.
Good luck :)
Laurie
Invincible
02-03-2004, 12:33 PM
I would prob. focus on the vanity issues because the doctor on oprah said all the health reasons in the world normally don't get women to quit, but as soon as he points out the wrinkles and lines on their faces from smoking - they quit. Go figure.
I totally agree with Laurie (again and again!) - I knew all about the potential dangers of smoking all the time (there are 4 docs in my immediate family)... but I never cared ... since I started getting wrinkly skin and want to get some surgical work done on my face ... I have been very motivated to quit!!
The vanity issue is very deep with women ... girls too I guess.
I totally agree with Laurie (again and again!) - I knew all about the potential dangers of smoking all the time (there are 4 docs in my immediate family)... but I never cared ... since I started getting wrinkly skin and want to get some surgical work done on my face ... I have been very motivated to quit!!
The vanity issue is very deep with women ... girls too I guess.
Deda
02-03-2004, 01:29 PM
Hey, you guys have done terrific helping this Dad out! I don't know what more to add to it now!
Striper, you sound like a really good Dad, BTW. I had chain smoked all through bringing up 2 very nice children. My husband and I are the opposite of you and your wife in that we both smoked while raising our kids, yet we never had a problem with either one ever messing with it. Today they are 25 and 30 and they are both so anti -smoking it isn't funny. :confused: In fact, my son when he was in high school would ask me NOT to smoke when he brought a new GF over (in his JR year) he was so embarrassed, and didn't want this certain young lady to know his mom even smoked! Of course it made me feel terrible. I was kind of strict with them, and I pretty much told them that if they ever smoked, they'd be getting their butts kicked big time. But seriously, here I was smoking, yet I was always telling them how very stupid it was, lectures about all of the horrible things it could do to them, and not only that, they saw ALL of the struggles that their Dad and (especially I) went through to quit! (I had tried [and failed] many, many times during those years!) Now they are super happy about mom and dad quitting.
I like the idea that Invince gave you about the aunt talking to her. But of course, we don't know what that aunts attitude would be about that. It would just be too good if that aunt decided to quit! (Yeah Laurie said send her here, good idea!)
Yeah, in the end I think I would lay down the law about it, telling her straight out that it's NOT going to be tolerated whatsoever, and then just keep a close eye on her.
I live in a small community (16,000) near Sacramento, and supposedly this town has the highest rate of teenage smokers in the whole state. These rural based kids just smoke more than the city kids do. (and chew snuff). My son says it's because they are bored. I'm sorry, I don't really buy that. These spoiled rich kids have cars and $$ in their pockets, and we're only 10 miles away from a city with 90,000 pop., there are plenty of things for kids to do! (your daughter sounds like she has something to keep her busy with her swim team). I think it's more that they just want to fit in with the other kids that they're hanging around with. Maybe she needs to hang around with a new crowd over there.
And yeah Laurie, I smoked in the school bathrooms as well! What nerve huh? One time I was "caught" by an english teacher and had to report to the VP's office. (that VP is my husbands uncle!) I told you Laurie that my Dad threatened me with a severe belt whipping if he ever caught me again, after walking in my bedroom one morning with smoke all over the room. Well, lucky for me (or I should say, unlucky for me), he traveled on business a whole lot, and mom was thee biggest pushover. Later when I was 17 I was even smoking in front of her and she didn't even fight me. She was having a hard enough time trying to raise 3 teenagers on her own, (dad was never around) and probably figured it was easier to let me do it, thinking I wouldn't do it long. Here I am 30 yrs later, still struggling to quit, even though I am quit now. I wish she had not done that. I wish she had been tougher and not allowed it.
Yeah, I wouldn't let her get away with it Striper. I 'd fight her tooth and nail on this one...tough love maybe? I don't know, I feel bad for you guys. Best of luck with this, and we'll all pray for you. I admire the way you came here to help your daughter. Don't give up on her. And please...let us know how it all turns out!
Good luck..
DEDA
Striper, you sound like a really good Dad, BTW. I had chain smoked all through bringing up 2 very nice children. My husband and I are the opposite of you and your wife in that we both smoked while raising our kids, yet we never had a problem with either one ever messing with it. Today they are 25 and 30 and they are both so anti -smoking it isn't funny. :confused: In fact, my son when he was in high school would ask me NOT to smoke when he brought a new GF over (in his JR year) he was so embarrassed, and didn't want this certain young lady to know his mom even smoked! Of course it made me feel terrible. I was kind of strict with them, and I pretty much told them that if they ever smoked, they'd be getting their butts kicked big time. But seriously, here I was smoking, yet I was always telling them how very stupid it was, lectures about all of the horrible things it could do to them, and not only that, they saw ALL of the struggles that their Dad and (especially I) went through to quit! (I had tried [and failed] many, many times during those years!) Now they are super happy about mom and dad quitting.
I like the idea that Invince gave you about the aunt talking to her. But of course, we don't know what that aunts attitude would be about that. It would just be too good if that aunt decided to quit! (Yeah Laurie said send her here, good idea!)
Yeah, in the end I think I would lay down the law about it, telling her straight out that it's NOT going to be tolerated whatsoever, and then just keep a close eye on her.
I live in a small community (16,000) near Sacramento, and supposedly this town has the highest rate of teenage smokers in the whole state. These rural based kids just smoke more than the city kids do. (and chew snuff). My son says it's because they are bored. I'm sorry, I don't really buy that. These spoiled rich kids have cars and $$ in their pockets, and we're only 10 miles away from a city with 90,000 pop., there are plenty of things for kids to do! (your daughter sounds like she has something to keep her busy with her swim team). I think it's more that they just want to fit in with the other kids that they're hanging around with. Maybe she needs to hang around with a new crowd over there.
And yeah Laurie, I smoked in the school bathrooms as well! What nerve huh? One time I was "caught" by an english teacher and had to report to the VP's office. (that VP is my husbands uncle!) I told you Laurie that my Dad threatened me with a severe belt whipping if he ever caught me again, after walking in my bedroom one morning with smoke all over the room. Well, lucky for me (or I should say, unlucky for me), he traveled on business a whole lot, and mom was thee biggest pushover. Later when I was 17 I was even smoking in front of her and she didn't even fight me. She was having a hard enough time trying to raise 3 teenagers on her own, (dad was never around) and probably figured it was easier to let me do it, thinking I wouldn't do it long. Here I am 30 yrs later, still struggling to quit, even though I am quit now. I wish she had not done that. I wish she had been tougher and not allowed it.
Yeah, I wouldn't let her get away with it Striper. I 'd fight her tooth and nail on this one...tough love maybe? I don't know, I feel bad for you guys. Best of luck with this, and we'll all pray for you. I admire the way you came here to help your daughter. Don't give up on her. And please...let us know how it all turns out!
Good luck..
DEDA
smartgal
02-03-2004, 02:58 PM
Since she mentioned that it's something to do since she can't drink, it probably does have something to do with wanting to "grow up" and also with boredom. I would ask her how it makes her feel? She may feel the need to fit in and you might want to emphasize that individuality is what people respect in the long run. She may just need some other activity that she finds interesting. I know that in some small towns most people either go to church or to bars, there just aren't the options that can be had in larger towns. It's a tough situation. I think when you talk to her, try to listen without getting angry. That will leave her open to discuss situations with you more freely. Ask a lot of questions, how does this make you feel? What do you want for the future? Would you want your children to smoke? Listen close, try to understand. Help her to come to the right decision on her own, if at all possible. If this doesn't work, then I guess you have no alternative but to tell her there will be progressive punishment if she cannot follow the rules you set for her. Let her know they are not arbitrary rules made just to control her, but something that will help her live a long healthy life.
Deda
02-03-2004, 04:04 PM
That's the best I've heard so far guiltyg!!!! Makes the most sense I think.
DEDA
DEDA
LL29
02-03-2004, 11:06 PM
Yes, I like guilty's as well - very sensible and treats her like an adult. You know since we were talkin reverse psychology earlier - I just wonder what she would think if you and the wife ever lit up? No of course I'm not saying that but maybe ask her if it would bother her?
Also I would have her read all of these threads because we all would tell her that we're NOW smart and regret ever smoking that first cancer stick. Let her know that she'll have lines around her mouth from smoking and tell her to get a good look at her aunt privately because I'm sure the smoking lines will be popping out soon if they're not already there. It's something you have no choice on - you figure every drag you take - you're moving your mouth a certain way and with the smoke dehydrating your skin on top of that - lines soon come. I'm 33 yrs. old and have them around my top lip and I'm sure there's a line or two around my eyes that came extra early due to smoking.
Tell her she just has to believe us and quit now or she'll be absolutely miserable later. Again - tell her to read the cancer boards as well. Cancer doesn't discriminate.
Laurie
Also I would have her read all of these threads because we all would tell her that we're NOW smart and regret ever smoking that first cancer stick. Let her know that she'll have lines around her mouth from smoking and tell her to get a good look at her aunt privately because I'm sure the smoking lines will be popping out soon if they're not already there. It's something you have no choice on - you figure every drag you take - you're moving your mouth a certain way and with the smoke dehydrating your skin on top of that - lines soon come. I'm 33 yrs. old and have them around my top lip and I'm sure there's a line or two around my eyes that came extra early due to smoking.
Tell her she just has to believe us and quit now or she'll be absolutely miserable later. Again - tell her to read the cancer boards as well. Cancer doesn't discriminate.
Laurie
striper
02-04-2004, 12:51 AM
You guys are absolutely great, lots of good ideas. And Laurie, only 33, not much older than the cool aunt, but so wise...I'm a little surprised and very much impressed.
Errr...so time for an update: Today I asked my princess if she has smoked since her promise to her mother, and she said she hasn't, and she won't for the six weeks her mother requested of her to get through swimming. Maybe I'm naive, but I believed her. Her eye contact and body language were exactly right for the question.
BUT...when I asked her if that meant she would do it when this commitment was over, she said, "probably not...I don't know," and her eye contact/resolve turned to s***. So, I'm left to believe that she fully intends to partake again in a few weeks, and there's very little we can do to stop her. I did reaffirm that she understood how stupid that was and how much we objected to it, and she said she did. The way I see it now, if we can get through the next six weeks successfully, then we're that much ahead of the game, and we can go from there. If we can't, if there's any kind of relapse, then the addiction thing becomes that much clearer, and we have a different dragon to slay. Either way, I'm in my kid's corner.
I really do wish I could send her here for counsel, but she'd think I was a freak for even discussing this with strangers. (Remember, when we last left her it was "I did, but I don't, and it's no big deal.") Of course, to my mind, you guys are quickly becoming friends, since you're rallying behind my kid, but that's another story.
I still question the punishment idea. If there was some way to (figuratively) slap her into shape, I'd be more than willing to give it a go. I just don't know what punishment would be effective, or what might escalate the behavior. I told my wife, after a few sleepless nights, that this is absolutely the most vexing thing I've ever encountered.
I will have the aunt talk to her. (Strangely enough, she and her aunt share the same first name, and she was born on her aunt's 16th birthday...so how's that for karma?) Her aunt really is a great kid too, and she's gone through some trials of her own and she's come out okay. She's a beautiful girl now, but Laurie, you're right, the effects of smoking (she started when she was fourteen) are beginning to take their toll.
Anyway, I'm not sure what approach is best, all I know is I love my kid, and I really appreciate you guys helping out. Keep up with the good ideas, and especially keep her/us in your prayers. And I'll keep you guys up to date.
Thanks
Errr...so time for an update: Today I asked my princess if she has smoked since her promise to her mother, and she said she hasn't, and she won't for the six weeks her mother requested of her to get through swimming. Maybe I'm naive, but I believed her. Her eye contact and body language were exactly right for the question.
BUT...when I asked her if that meant she would do it when this commitment was over, she said, "probably not...I don't know," and her eye contact/resolve turned to s***. So, I'm left to believe that she fully intends to partake again in a few weeks, and there's very little we can do to stop her. I did reaffirm that she understood how stupid that was and how much we objected to it, and she said she did. The way I see it now, if we can get through the next six weeks successfully, then we're that much ahead of the game, and we can go from there. If we can't, if there's any kind of relapse, then the addiction thing becomes that much clearer, and we have a different dragon to slay. Either way, I'm in my kid's corner.
I really do wish I could send her here for counsel, but she'd think I was a freak for even discussing this with strangers. (Remember, when we last left her it was "I did, but I don't, and it's no big deal.") Of course, to my mind, you guys are quickly becoming friends, since you're rallying behind my kid, but that's another story.
I still question the punishment idea. If there was some way to (figuratively) slap her into shape, I'd be more than willing to give it a go. I just don't know what punishment would be effective, or what might escalate the behavior. I told my wife, after a few sleepless nights, that this is absolutely the most vexing thing I've ever encountered.
I will have the aunt talk to her. (Strangely enough, she and her aunt share the same first name, and she was born on her aunt's 16th birthday...so how's that for karma?) Her aunt really is a great kid too, and she's gone through some trials of her own and she's come out okay. She's a beautiful girl now, but Laurie, you're right, the effects of smoking (she started when she was fourteen) are beginning to take their toll.
Anyway, I'm not sure what approach is best, all I know is I love my kid, and I really appreciate you guys helping out. Keep up with the good ideas, and especially keep her/us in your prayers. And I'll keep you guys up to date.
Thanks
Leanea
02-04-2004, 04:21 AM
I started smoking when I was your daughter's age. I am now 25. When I was that age if I heard all the harm smoking would cause it would stress me out even more!!! The only that could have helped me at that time would have been to see a counselor (one that I trusted) for whatever was causing my stress in the first place! And if I could have solved problems instead of smoking I would have....Fear won't do it... :rolleyes:
striper
02-04-2004, 10:11 AM
I started smoking when I was your daughter's age. I am now 25. When I was that age if I heard all the harm smoking would cause it would stress me out even more!!! The only that could have helped me at that time would have been to see a counselor (one that I trusted) for whatever was causing my stress in the first place! And if I could have solved problems instead of smoking I would have....Fear won't do it... :rolleyes:
Stress isn't something I've really considered, mainly because I'm not sure what she might have to be stressed about. But then again, I'm not really sure what goes on in the deep dark recesses of a fifteen year old mind. (Not much I guess...just kidding.)
But my instinct, too, is that you might be on to something. Fear/punishment might be a powerful motivator, but if you have no choice in the behavior, as in you're addicted, doesn't that just add to the problem?
Also, isn't stress management the science behind addiction anyway? You smoke, and you're body reacts to it by sending out chemicals telling you it's a good thing. Then when you don't,you're body tells you you're doing a bad thing and you become anxious/stressed. So to relieve the stress you smoke more. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts, circular logic. (I think Dr. Phil might have said something like that.) The more you smoke the more anxious you become when you don't.
That's what's so alarming about the behavior in the first place...if we've reached the addiction phase, I'm not sure the fearing inducing, punishment tools we have to work with are going to be that effective anyway. Ultimately, it willl be up to her to want to give it up.
Stress isn't something I've really considered, mainly because I'm not sure what she might have to be stressed about. But then again, I'm not really sure what goes on in the deep dark recesses of a fifteen year old mind. (Not much I guess...just kidding.)
But my instinct, too, is that you might be on to something. Fear/punishment might be a powerful motivator, but if you have no choice in the behavior, as in you're addicted, doesn't that just add to the problem?
Also, isn't stress management the science behind addiction anyway? You smoke, and you're body reacts to it by sending out chemicals telling you it's a good thing. Then when you don't,you're body tells you you're doing a bad thing and you become anxious/stressed. So to relieve the stress you smoke more. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts, circular logic. (I think Dr. Phil might have said something like that.) The more you smoke the more anxious you become when you don't.
That's what's so alarming about the behavior in the first place...if we've reached the addiction phase, I'm not sure the fearing inducing, punishment tools we have to work with are going to be that effective anyway. Ultimately, it willl be up to her to want to give it up.
Invincible
02-04-2004, 11:01 AM
striper - haven't got any more to add but I think everyone is doing a great job here!!
Good luck!!
Good luck!!
LL29
02-04-2004, 03:50 PM
LOL Invinc you crack me up sometimes. LOL LMAO@U
Thx for the kind words striper - appreciate it and yes I grew up quick since I was hangin out with all the cool smokers older than me. HA HA NOT! LOL
OK bk to daughterland.... I do like Leanea's counseling suggestion too, but sometimes it's just a teenager thing or a phase (easier to smoke and be in even if you don't totally enjoy it than to not and take ridicule). Is she a leader or a follower? I was a leader unless I was around older people and wanted to be more grown up. When you're a teenager - you just can't WAIT til you're 18 - then it becomes 21. Does she ever drink that you know of as well?
At 15 yrs. old - my day dreams were all spent on boys. Homework was such a nuisance. LOL So she's at that stage where she's ready to be a grown up.
Ask her how, when, where, and who started her smoking - why did she do it and did she enjoy it or ???? I'm curious to know. I def. thought it was too cool back then. What a reject I was. LOL
But a BIG one I thought of was to call around or the american cancer society or am. lung assoc. and ask them where all of the lung cancer/emphysema people hang out nowadays. LMAO@me I'm sorry I am just too silly today I can't really help myself because that might not be funny to some, but anyway - I would seriously take her to the hospital or wherever so she can see the dramatic effects it has on the body, the face, maybe see a hole in someone's throat, or carrying an oxygen tank around, etc...
I'm the type where seeing is believing or I'm more of a hands on type person. You might be Charlie Brown to her right now (WHA WHA WHA WHA WHA WHA WHA) with your words so take another approach maybe.
Ok - report back to us Dad (LMAO@ME again) and then we'll give you some more suggestions. hehehhehe
Laurie and her favorite boy > :bouncing: his name is bouncing. LOL
PS: No I have not been drinking today either unless McDonald's is now spikin their coffee. LOL
Thx for the kind words striper - appreciate it and yes I grew up quick since I was hangin out with all the cool smokers older than me. HA HA NOT! LOL
OK bk to daughterland.... I do like Leanea's counseling suggestion too, but sometimes it's just a teenager thing or a phase (easier to smoke and be in even if you don't totally enjoy it than to not and take ridicule). Is she a leader or a follower? I was a leader unless I was around older people and wanted to be more grown up. When you're a teenager - you just can't WAIT til you're 18 - then it becomes 21. Does she ever drink that you know of as well?
At 15 yrs. old - my day dreams were all spent on boys. Homework was such a nuisance. LOL So she's at that stage where she's ready to be a grown up.
Ask her how, when, where, and who started her smoking - why did she do it and did she enjoy it or ???? I'm curious to know. I def. thought it was too cool back then. What a reject I was. LOL
But a BIG one I thought of was to call around or the american cancer society or am. lung assoc. and ask them where all of the lung cancer/emphysema people hang out nowadays. LMAO@me I'm sorry I am just too silly today I can't really help myself because that might not be funny to some, but anyway - I would seriously take her to the hospital or wherever so she can see the dramatic effects it has on the body, the face, maybe see a hole in someone's throat, or carrying an oxygen tank around, etc...
I'm the type where seeing is believing or I'm more of a hands on type person. You might be Charlie Brown to her right now (WHA WHA WHA WHA WHA WHA WHA) with your words so take another approach maybe.
Ok - report back to us Dad (LMAO@ME again) and then we'll give you some more suggestions. hehehhehe
Laurie and her favorite boy > :bouncing: his name is bouncing. LOL
PS: No I have not been drinking today either unless McDonald's is now spikin their coffee. LOL
smartgal
02-04-2004, 05:33 PM
Being a teenager is one of the most stressful times of life! You don't know what the future will bring. Your whole life has been scheduled up to this point, you know what you'll be doing the year after. Now you have to decide what you want to be when you "grow up". You have to think about moving out. Do you want to get married and have children? This was the worst time of my life. Again, ask her what her worries are.
striper
03-11-2004, 01:26 AM
Remember my baby promised to get through swim season w/o smoking?
Well...she failed.
And here's how that shook out: About a week ago I found a stray, unaccounted for (burned) match on the patio. I didn't think too much about it, as I knew at least some of her friends (Brittany, in particular) smoke, and her friends will always be welcome in our home. Today, she came home from school and made a bee-line into her room and squirted herself down with perfume. Mom got suspicious and confronted her, and she said Julie (who had given her a ride) had just given her a drag off her cig on the way home from school. Wrong! When pressed she said Julie had given her a cig, which she smoked, but she really hasn't been smoking all along. Okay...
So, she went to swim practice tonight, and I tossed the room. (Police-speak for I violated her constitutional right against unlawful search and seizure.) Bottom of one of her desk drawers was an empty "Kool" box, which I can only assume that she blew through on her own. The rest of the room was clean. I didn't confront her, as I didn't think there was much to be gained by the "I can believe you searched my room" argument. When she opens the drawer, she'll know she's been had, and she can decide whether to make an issue of it.
Now, I don't know where to go from here... I'm frustrated, I'm disappointed, and I'm discouraged about our prospects. On the plus side, I really do think she made it through about four of her promised six weeks w/o smoking; on the minus, she did cave in early, which obviously doesn't bode well on the addiction angle.
Anyway, you all have been really supportive, so I thought I would fill you in. Not sure there's much help to be had right now, I may just have to fight through these teen years and love her in spite of herself.
Laurie, Deda, Guilty, Invincable (I saw you had a relapse...at least you know your not alone :nono: ), all the rest of you guys...any advice, any thoughts, any ideas?
Thanks for listening...
Well...she failed.
And here's how that shook out: About a week ago I found a stray, unaccounted for (burned) match on the patio. I didn't think too much about it, as I knew at least some of her friends (Brittany, in particular) smoke, and her friends will always be welcome in our home. Today, she came home from school and made a bee-line into her room and squirted herself down with perfume. Mom got suspicious and confronted her, and she said Julie (who had given her a ride) had just given her a drag off her cig on the way home from school. Wrong! When pressed she said Julie had given her a cig, which she smoked, but she really hasn't been smoking all along. Okay...
So, she went to swim practice tonight, and I tossed the room. (Police-speak for I violated her constitutional right against unlawful search and seizure.) Bottom of one of her desk drawers was an empty "Kool" box, which I can only assume that she blew through on her own. The rest of the room was clean. I didn't confront her, as I didn't think there was much to be gained by the "I can believe you searched my room" argument. When she opens the drawer, she'll know she's been had, and she can decide whether to make an issue of it.
Now, I don't know where to go from here... I'm frustrated, I'm disappointed, and I'm discouraged about our prospects. On the plus side, I really do think she made it through about four of her promised six weeks w/o smoking; on the minus, she did cave in early, which obviously doesn't bode well on the addiction angle.
Anyway, you all have been really supportive, so I thought I would fill you in. Not sure there's much help to be had right now, I may just have to fight through these teen years and love her in spite of herself.
Laurie, Deda, Guilty, Invincable (I saw you had a relapse...at least you know your not alone :nono: ), all the rest of you guys...any advice, any thoughts, any ideas?
Thanks for listening...
Deda
03-11-2004, 02:27 AM
Striper--Aw geez...I'm so sorry to hear this. I know you are so disappointed, and I can tell you're very distressed about this. It sounds like she's really a good kid, and you and your wife sound like you have a good relationship with her, otherwise. I know I would've been very distressed had this happened with my own kids when they were teens. All I can think of suggesting to you, is maybe you, (and you alone, so she doesn't feel like the parents are ganging up on her) can sit down and have a heart to heart talk with her. Without anger, accusations or harsh tones. Just let her know right off that you love her, you want her to be healthy, and you are concerned, as you feel that she been smoking. Don't even mention the empty Cool pack you found, give her a chance to admit it. Try to keep it cool, keep it light and just go from there. Tell her how you feel. Maybe tell her she's not going to get in any trouble, (yet), but that if she's starting to develop a habit/addiction, you want to help her arrest the problem now. I'm so sorry for you, I know you're so let down. But hang in there Striper, it will work out. You sound like too great of a Dad, and I admire your tenacity. I wish I could offer something better, but that's really all I can think that you could do at this point.
I'm sure you'll hear from Guilty in the AM, and hopefully Laurie will be back tomorrow, and possibly someone will come along with a great piece of advice for you. :)
I will make sure to pray for you all though, right now.
God bless...
DEDA
I'm sure you'll hear from Guilty in the AM, and hopefully Laurie will be back tomorrow, and possibly someone will come along with a great piece of advice for you. :)
I will make sure to pray for you all though, right now.
God bless...
DEDA
LL29
03-11-2004, 11:52 AM
I DID NOT HAVE ANY RELAPSES! LOL I was telling the others to get bk on the program. LOL Sorry for the confusion. LOL
Write more later :)
Laurie :bouncing:
Write more later :)
Laurie :bouncing:
LL29
03-11-2004, 12:09 PM
Ok just finished reading and sorry to hear of your bummer and hate to say it's typical but yet.............. I think it is (my opinion only).
What grade is she in again? The hard part is that you allow her to hang out with smokers so the chances of her success are very limited as long as she's with them because she already enjoys it and is prob. addicted. :( It's a double-edged sword when you try to be the negotiable understanding parent. I don't know how I feel about being "friends" with your kids - I'm split on that because mine weren't LOL and Mom let me hang out with whomever (parents were divorced) and I got way outta control, but when I moved with my Dad - he wasn't havin it and wouldn't let me keep bad company so I did much less in the bad teenager category.
I know it's hard on the restrictive thing but I would try to kill all the birds with one stone and maybe get them ALL to quit smoking.
Get pictures of nasty lookin smokers - contact the american cancer society and lung assoc, etc... I'm sure they have some nasty pictures - people with holes in their throats and ck the wall of remembrance on the american lung assoc website.
I should've prob. changed the wording on my thread - I don't want anyone discouraged thinking I relapsed because I'm clean. LOL (laughin out loud) Spoken like a true ex cig junkie. LOL
But I would get her thru the vanity ways because most of the doctors say more females quit due to showing them smoker's lines around their mouths then telling them it'll kill them.
Best to you and the family and please feel free to come out daily to keep us posted. :) It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out.
Pray as well :)
Laurie :bouncing:
What grade is she in again? The hard part is that you allow her to hang out with smokers so the chances of her success are very limited as long as she's with them because she already enjoys it and is prob. addicted. :( It's a double-edged sword when you try to be the negotiable understanding parent. I don't know how I feel about being "friends" with your kids - I'm split on that because mine weren't LOL and Mom let me hang out with whomever (parents were divorced) and I got way outta control, but when I moved with my Dad - he wasn't havin it and wouldn't let me keep bad company so I did much less in the bad teenager category.
I know it's hard on the restrictive thing but I would try to kill all the birds with one stone and maybe get them ALL to quit smoking.
Get pictures of nasty lookin smokers - contact the american cancer society and lung assoc, etc... I'm sure they have some nasty pictures - people with holes in their throats and ck the wall of remembrance on the american lung assoc website.
I should've prob. changed the wording on my thread - I don't want anyone discouraged thinking I relapsed because I'm clean. LOL (laughin out loud) Spoken like a true ex cig junkie. LOL
But I would get her thru the vanity ways because most of the doctors say more females quit due to showing them smoker's lines around their mouths then telling them it'll kill them.
Best to you and the family and please feel free to come out daily to keep us posted. :) It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out.
Pray as well :)
Laurie :bouncing:
striper
03-11-2004, 05:05 PM
She's a freshman, and it seem that most of the "bad" behavior started right about the time junior and senior boys started to prey on her and her friends. Of course, that deal has been going on since God invented high schools and adolescence. She's always been a bright, popular kid, and she's pretty much kept the same group of friends since we moved here. As far as restricting her friends now, that would be tough to do, and maybe even unfair, as until recently none of them has given us any cause for concern. We've expressed our disproval of some of the boys she's hung with recently, and ironically, this relapse seems to have coincided with her latest choice of "better" kids to play with--busier, more athletic kids with real curfews, etc.
Can't say I'm surprised at all though. In fact, I predicted the relapse in one of my earlier posts. I was hoping for better, encouraging her, trying to keep tabs, whatever, but when I talked to her initially, there was little doubt which direction she was going to choose once swimming was done. For being such a bright kid, I just don't know when she got so stupid. That's the frustrating part. I can deal with the "experimental" stage of growing up; I experimented with things I shouldn't have, too. I just don't want her to get into that cycle of addiction that they say takes 18years to an eternity to break.
I guess it's day to day now....
Can't say I'm surprised at all though. In fact, I predicted the relapse in one of my earlier posts. I was hoping for better, encouraging her, trying to keep tabs, whatever, but when I talked to her initially, there was little doubt which direction she was going to choose once swimming was done. For being such a bright kid, I just don't know when she got so stupid. That's the frustrating part. I can deal with the "experimental" stage of growing up; I experimented with things I shouldn't have, too. I just don't want her to get into that cycle of addiction that they say takes 18years to an eternity to break.
I guess it's day to day now....
smartgal
03-11-2004, 05:38 PM
I'm wondering if hanging around "good" kids is stressful for her. It's hard to compete sometimes and your ego as a teenager is pretty fragile. Ask her to look at how she was feeling before she accepted the cigarette. Was she stressed, was she happy, was she afraid she wasn't fitting in? I guess better that then sex with boys to build her ego! It could take 18 years to get over that too, if she isn't careful! Maybe the old guilt trip, "we know you are a good kid and would never lie to us" would work.
smartgal
03-12-2004, 12:57 PM
I didn't start smoking until I was 22, oddly enough. I never hid it from my parents, so I just don't know. My mother was an ex-smoker and the only time she would get upset was when I put out a cigarette without finishing it, because they were too expensive to do that!
I wouldn't say you've lost the battle just yet.
I wouldn't say you've lost the battle just yet.
Missylynn
03-13-2004, 05:59 AM
So, of course, you can guess what happened next. About a week ago she had a friend spend the night. I was up late and smelled strange odors seeping out of her room, incense and uh-oh(!!!). Of course we confronted her about it, and she admitted that Brittany was smoking and she thought it would be okay for Brittany to do it in the house because it was so cold outside. (It's not, even for her aunt whom we love dearly.) We told that although we couldn't control Brittany, if she insisted on smoking, she would have to do it outside . There was no evidence that that later occurred.
...
She knew that Brittany couldn't smoke in your house. This is a game that children play with their parents, especially exceptionally bright children. There is no way that we can list everything that they cannot do but they are smart enough to apply the rules to other situations. When you taught her how to cross the street you did not list every make and model of car but she knew that a Honda could hurt her as well as a Buick.
Don't fall for her crap. Let her know as a parent you are in charge. Be firm but loving. Of course she's going to challenge you but you must stand your ground.
Good Luck
...
She knew that Brittany couldn't smoke in your house. This is a game that children play with their parents, especially exceptionally bright children. There is no way that we can list everything that they cannot do but they are smart enough to apply the rules to other situations. When you taught her how to cross the street you did not list every make and model of car but she knew that a Honda could hurt her as well as a Buick.
Don't fall for her crap. Let her know as a parent you are in charge. Be firm but loving. Of course she's going to challenge you but you must stand your ground.
Good Luck
Deda
03-16-2004, 03:19 AM
So Striper...
What happened...did you decide on anything??? I hope you are able to come up with a workable solution. Keep us posted, and my prayers are with you.
DEDA
What happened...did you decide on anything??? I hope you are able to come up with a workable solution. Keep us posted, and my prayers are with you.
DEDA
striper
03-16-2004, 12:38 PM
At this point I don't have much of a battle plan. Like I said before, it's looks like it's going to be day to day for awhile. Just another spin on the old dilemma: how do you regain trust when you've been caught in the first lie? The answer is: you don't, at least for awhile...you start from scratch and go from there. It's been about a week since our last derailment. So far, it looks like she's doing okay. It's a smoke free house, so my nose is pretty sensitive, and I do discretely check her purse and her room periodically. Other than that I'm not sure there's a lot I can do. She knows we love her--we tell her that all the time--and that she can talk to us, and she's real good about being open with us. For the most part we do know what's going on in her little world. But I also know she won't talk to us about this issue, because she clearly knows that we do not approve.
From a monitoring point of view, the real problem is we can't watch her twenty-four hours a day. I'm home half the time she gets home from school; she comes home to an empty house the other half. (Unfortunately, we have to work for a living.) So does she smoke then? I'm sure she has, not sure she does regularly.
And, too, she is fifteen and she's entitled to an adolescence, painful as that might be for all of us. She wants to go to football games and basketball games and, yes, parties too. Does she smoke then? She definitely has, and probably will again. In a small town like this friends are something of a mixed bag. "Good" kids are intermingled with "bad" kids and everbody seems to get along fine, so it's hard to tell the players without a scorecard. And as my wife pointed out, there are "good" kids who smoke; I'm sure most of you guys fell into that category when you were kids. (That's why I asked how you viewed smoking when you first started...looking for clues from a fifteen-year-old's point of view.) So, where do we allow her to go, what do we allow her to do, where do we draw the line? Our comfort level with the adult supervision is the standard we use, but even that's an imperfect science at best, as kids naturally don't want to go where the parents are most "present".
Anyway, day to day we'll keep plodding. I'm still looking for ideas, and I'll keep you posted.
Thanks.
From a monitoring point of view, the real problem is we can't watch her twenty-four hours a day. I'm home half the time she gets home from school; she comes home to an empty house the other half. (Unfortunately, we have to work for a living.) So does she smoke then? I'm sure she has, not sure she does regularly.
And, too, she is fifteen and she's entitled to an adolescence, painful as that might be for all of us. She wants to go to football games and basketball games and, yes, parties too. Does she smoke then? She definitely has, and probably will again. In a small town like this friends are something of a mixed bag. "Good" kids are intermingled with "bad" kids and everbody seems to get along fine, so it's hard to tell the players without a scorecard. And as my wife pointed out, there are "good" kids who smoke; I'm sure most of you guys fell into that category when you were kids. (That's why I asked how you viewed smoking when you first started...looking for clues from a fifteen-year-old's point of view.) So, where do we allow her to go, what do we allow her to do, where do we draw the line? Our comfort level with the adult supervision is the standard we use, but even that's an imperfect science at best, as kids naturally don't want to go where the parents are most "present".
Anyway, day to day we'll keep plodding. I'm still looking for ideas, and I'll keep you posted.
Thanks.
Deda
03-16-2004, 04:19 PM
HStriper...
thanks for the update. You know I just posted you a good sized reply, and the dern thing didn't go through! So now I'm frustrated, and I will do it again later...
DEDA
thanks for the update. You know I just posted you a good sized reply, and the dern thing didn't go through! So now I'm frustrated, and I will do it again later...
DEDA
Deda
03-17-2004, 04:17 AM
Okay..I'll try this again...
I'm sorry Striper that you haven't been able to resolve this problem. I was so hoping to hear that you all talked and that everything was fine now, and daughter told you she doesn't want to, or won't smoke again. I guess things don't resolve that easily with teenagers, do they? Did you or your wife have a discussion with her about your fears that she is smoking? What about that empty pack of cigs that you found in her dresser? Did she ever say anything about that, or did you? Hopefully this is still just at the experimental stage with her, and not a true addiction as yet. My older brother and I became full blown addict smokers, (he's now deceased), and younger brother smoked while with his little buddies when he was as young as 14, but only to fit in with the guys, fortunately he never became addicted, and as soon as he gained some self confidence, he no longer smoked. He tells me now that he never did like it, just wanted to fit in and feel accepted. Hopefully that will be the case with your girl too. :)
Good luck, and keep in touch...
DEDA
I'm sorry Striper that you haven't been able to resolve this problem. I was so hoping to hear that you all talked and that everything was fine now, and daughter told you she doesn't want to, or won't smoke again. I guess things don't resolve that easily with teenagers, do they? Did you or your wife have a discussion with her about your fears that she is smoking? What about that empty pack of cigs that you found in her dresser? Did she ever say anything about that, or did you? Hopefully this is still just at the experimental stage with her, and not a true addiction as yet. My older brother and I became full blown addict smokers, (he's now deceased), and younger brother smoked while with his little buddies when he was as young as 14, but only to fit in with the guys, fortunately he never became addicted, and as soon as he gained some self confidence, he no longer smoked. He tells me now that he never did like it, just wanted to fit in and feel accepted. Hopefully that will be the case with your girl too. :)
Good luck, and keep in touch...
DEDA
striper
03-17-2004, 12:12 PM
Another update...heard 'round the dinner table:
Daughter: "I'll just have Britanny come over and we'll walk the dog over to Carly's and sit in the hot tub."
Mother: "Oh that's just what we want, you and Britanny smoking cigarettes over at Carly's."
Daughter: "A lot of kids smoke, just because they do that doesn't mean I have to."
Father: "We know that, we're just not sure you do."
Daughter: "(If I do it) I do it because I want to, not because they do."
That was last night. I'm not sure how much to read into it. That's where that topic of discussion ended. I'm not even sure I heard the part in parantheses, but I can't imagine she didn't say it, as mom didn't comment on it, and it was so self-incriminating.
One of the binds I feel like we've gotten into, is that even open/non-judgemental discussions have to be tempered, otherwise it just might appear to a teenager that we've adopted a permissive pose, no matter how strongly we state the opposite. (Psychology 101: People hear just what they want to hear.) Therefore, a cloud of suspicion necessarily hangs over a lot of what she says and does these days. Arghh...it didn't use to be like that around here.
So where do we go from here? Do I have to sneak home from work unexpectedly on occasion, just to try to catch her? Do I let it go and hope it plays out okay in the long run?
Obviously, the problem is not going to go away on its own...
Daughter: "I'll just have Britanny come over and we'll walk the dog over to Carly's and sit in the hot tub."
Mother: "Oh that's just what we want, you and Britanny smoking cigarettes over at Carly's."
Daughter: "A lot of kids smoke, just because they do that doesn't mean I have to."
Father: "We know that, we're just not sure you do."
Daughter: "(If I do it) I do it because I want to, not because they do."
That was last night. I'm not sure how much to read into it. That's where that topic of discussion ended. I'm not even sure I heard the part in parantheses, but I can't imagine she didn't say it, as mom didn't comment on it, and it was so self-incriminating.
One of the binds I feel like we've gotten into, is that even open/non-judgemental discussions have to be tempered, otherwise it just might appear to a teenager that we've adopted a permissive pose, no matter how strongly we state the opposite. (Psychology 101: People hear just what they want to hear.) Therefore, a cloud of suspicion necessarily hangs over a lot of what she says and does these days. Arghh...it didn't use to be like that around here.
So where do we go from here? Do I have to sneak home from work unexpectedly on occasion, just to try to catch her? Do I let it go and hope it plays out okay in the long run?
Obviously, the problem is not going to go away on its own...
smartgal
03-17-2004, 05:57 PM
I hesitate to say this, but the statement "We know that, we're just not sure you do" is judgemental. A better thing to say might have been, It's good to hear you say that! You're a smart girl! Of course that's easy for me to say after the fact! LOL
Even though I didn't smoke cigarettes, I went through a phase of smoking pot, drinking, boys, etc. My parents were very strict, so the minute I got away from them, I did whatever I could do that I wasn't supposed to. I guess you have to trust that you raised her right and eventually she will make the best decisions for herself.
Even though I didn't smoke cigarettes, I went through a phase of smoking pot, drinking, boys, etc. My parents were very strict, so the minute I got away from them, I did whatever I could do that I wasn't supposed to. I guess you have to trust that you raised her right and eventually she will make the best decisions for herself.
Deda
03-18-2004, 04:01 AM
As always, thanks for the input...I'll shut up and listen for awhile and keep you posted on significant developments as they arise.
Maybe that's all you can really do at this point, Striper. And possibly once she senses that mom and dad aren't inquiring about any more, she'll lose interest in it. :confused:
Best of luck!
DEDA
Maybe that's all you can really do at this point, Striper. And possibly once she senses that mom and dad aren't inquiring about any more, she'll lose interest in it. :confused:
Best of luck!
DEDA
LL29
03-23-2004, 09:54 AM
Ah so sorry striper that I've been away and sorry to hear about your recent developments. :(
BUT there's always hope and a way ;) I don't think you should ever stop tryin to think of ways to wait or give up or accept it. If she were 18 yrs. of age and not living with you, then that would be different but if she were in my house I would make serious penalties if she smokes because there's only a few years left until she can tell you "too bad if you don't like it then leave my apartment." Not saying she would ever say that and I pretty much agree with everyone on their comments and I do honestly feel that you and your wife have done an excellent job in raising her - peer pressure sometimes beats all odds though.
So I say - contact some local smoking cessation groups or go to other sites and ask if anyone has been successful with this situation and their kids.
There are so many different approaches and I would take them all. One that's prob. half crazy I thought of would be to say "you know what - you don't respect us or care about us enough to stop smoking so go ahead and smoke.... smoking kills and that's a fact so if you really cared about us and loved us then you wouldn't smoke knowing that one day you might leave us much earlier than anticipated." From that point I would ignore her. I would isolate her. Now that's a very dangerous risk there because she could become worse and who knows what else but I'm just thinking of every angle to take and make her be the adult and see what she does.
You could take her to the hospital or cancer wards and let her see people that have smoked and have holes in their throats, carrying around oxygen tanks, etc... Hell I would even put up pictures ALL OVER THE HOUSE. LOL I'm serious - I would let her know that you guys love her more than anything and do not want her falling prey to such a killer disease. And you know - to hell what anyone else thinks - that's your kid and you need to protect her as best as you can. I wouldn't roll over and play dead is what I'm saying because each time you sit and wait - it's getting worse. Nip it in the bud and maybe even contact the other parents to see if they want to join in the effort - if they're not interested, then that's fine - do NOT stop what you are doing.
When your daughter stops for good and 5-10 yrs. down the line - she'll thank you for this.
Oh and one more I thought of - go find the most gorgeous man in history that your daughter would love .... he can even be too old for her (you know just a friend of a friend coming by) and have him mention about how he was love at first sight with this woman, but she smoked so he had to let her go that it stinks beyond belief, etc... but of course you have to find a way to make it natural and believeable. LOL
That should keep you busy for awhile - maybe she'll get so tired of you guys tryin different things that she'll say it's just not worth it. LOL I would smell her or give her a kiss on the cheek each time you see her....you'll def. smell it if she's been doing it.
Best success :bouncing: Don't give up :)
Laurie
BUT there's always hope and a way ;) I don't think you should ever stop tryin to think of ways to wait or give up or accept it. If she were 18 yrs. of age and not living with you, then that would be different but if she were in my house I would make serious penalties if she smokes because there's only a few years left until she can tell you "too bad if you don't like it then leave my apartment." Not saying she would ever say that and I pretty much agree with everyone on their comments and I do honestly feel that you and your wife have done an excellent job in raising her - peer pressure sometimes beats all odds though.
So I say - contact some local smoking cessation groups or go to other sites and ask if anyone has been successful with this situation and their kids.
There are so many different approaches and I would take them all. One that's prob. half crazy I thought of would be to say "you know what - you don't respect us or care about us enough to stop smoking so go ahead and smoke.... smoking kills and that's a fact so if you really cared about us and loved us then you wouldn't smoke knowing that one day you might leave us much earlier than anticipated." From that point I would ignore her. I would isolate her. Now that's a very dangerous risk there because she could become worse and who knows what else but I'm just thinking of every angle to take and make her be the adult and see what she does.
You could take her to the hospital or cancer wards and let her see people that have smoked and have holes in their throats, carrying around oxygen tanks, etc... Hell I would even put up pictures ALL OVER THE HOUSE. LOL I'm serious - I would let her know that you guys love her more than anything and do not want her falling prey to such a killer disease. And you know - to hell what anyone else thinks - that's your kid and you need to protect her as best as you can. I wouldn't roll over and play dead is what I'm saying because each time you sit and wait - it's getting worse. Nip it in the bud and maybe even contact the other parents to see if they want to join in the effort - if they're not interested, then that's fine - do NOT stop what you are doing.
When your daughter stops for good and 5-10 yrs. down the line - she'll thank you for this.
Oh and one more I thought of - go find the most gorgeous man in history that your daughter would love .... he can even be too old for her (you know just a friend of a friend coming by) and have him mention about how he was love at first sight with this woman, but she smoked so he had to let her go that it stinks beyond belief, etc... but of course you have to find a way to make it natural and believeable. LOL
That should keep you busy for awhile - maybe she'll get so tired of you guys tryin different things that she'll say it's just not worth it. LOL I would smell her or give her a kiss on the cheek each time you see her....you'll def. smell it if she's been doing it.
Best success :bouncing: Don't give up :)
Laurie