My latest MRI said that I have spondylosis at the L5-S1. What does that mean? I have heard of several terms that sound similar to that, but am confused as to what it is.

gracie,

I see your notes say waiting for ADR when approved. Have you looked around locally for surgeons performing the maverick adr clinical trial?

Hi gracie,

check out this link. it may help.
http://www.spineuniverse.com/displayarticle.php/article102.html

Hawks066, I could be part of the trial, but I recently had another MRI that shows more problem areas. I want to make sure that this is my problem before I go into any surgery.

Successtory, I tried the link, but still do not understand what it is. The article had to do with the cervical spine, mine is in the lumbar. I didn't really see a definition for it. Sorry. Thanks anyways.

Anyone else?
Gracie

Hi Gracie,

Howz this?

Lumbar Spine and Spondylosis
Spondylosis often affects the lumbar spine in people over the age of 40. Pain and morning stiffness are common complaints. Usually multiple levels are involved (e.g. more than one vertebrae).

The lumbar spine carries most of the body's weight. Therefore, when degenerative forces compromise its structural integrity, symptoms including pain may accompany activity. Movement stimulates pain fibers in the anulus fibrosus and facet joints. Sitting for prolonged periods of time may cause pain and other symptoms due to pressure on the lumbar vertebrae. Repetitive movements such as lifting and bending (e.g. manual labor) may increase pain.

Much better, except for the statement about affecting people over 40...I am only 30, although I feel about 80. Thanks for the clarification.
Gracie

Hi Gracegirl,
Spondylosis are osteophytes (extra bone growths) on the vertebrae. I have them on three levels. They can cause pain and muscle spasms and sometimes press on nerves. they are diagnosed by way of an x-ray.
MPT

To add to Successtory's explanation:
Treatment: Conservative treatment is successful 75% of the time. Some patients may think that because their condition is labeled degenerative they are doomed to end up in a wheel chair some day. This is seldom the case. Many patients find their pain and other symptoms can be effectively treated without surgery.
During the acute phase, anti-inflammatory agents, analgesics, and muscle relaxants may be prescribed for a short period of time. The affected area may be immobilized and/or braced. Soft cervical collars may be used to restrict movement and alleviate pain. Lumbosacral orthotics may decrease the lumbar load by stabilizing the lumbar spine. In physical therapy, heat, electrical stimulation, and other modalities may be incorporated into the treatment plan to control muscle spasm and pain.
Physical Therapy (PT) teaches the patient how to strengthen their paravertebral and abdominal muscles to lend support to the spine. Isometric exercises can be helpful when movement is painful or difficult. Exercise in general helps to build strength, flexibility, and increase range of motion.
Lifestyle modification may be necessary. This may include an occupational change (e.g. from manual labor), losing weight, and quitting smoking.
Surgery: Seldom is surgery used to treat spondylosis or spinal osteoarthritis. Conservative forms of treatment are tried first.
If there is neurologic deficit, certain surgical procedures may be considered. However, before surgery is recommended, the patient's age, lifestyle, occupation, and number of vertebral levels involved are carefully evaluated.
If I were you, I'd ask them more about the annular tear you have, such as what grade it is. Have you had a discogram done to determine exactly where your pain generator is?
Good luck!

Thanks for the info. I am still a bit confused though...sorry slow learner. I thought spondylosis was osteoarthritis. Is that true or is it bone spurs? I also had a dr tell me that it was when the vertebrae slip forward. I don't understand which it is. Can anyone clarify?
I have not done the discogram yet. I am supposed to have facet joint injections this week to see if some of my pain is coming from degenerative facet joints. If that doesn't work, it is my understanding that I will have the discogram. The tear is labeled as minute at this point, but none the less it is still a problem. My damage is in the lumbar spine, but a lot of my pain is in the mid back and rib area. I don't know if it is muscle spasms causing this. I have no leg pain though. Any thoughts?

Gracie

Gracie,
You are right. The osteophytes are bone spurs on your vertebrae (this is osteoarthritis). I too have spasms pain in my mid back and right ribs. I was told that the muscles that attach to my vertebrae also attach to the low back (they go from one end to the other). That is why it affects the mid part of your back. I have a lumbar problem also.
MPT

Hi GracieGirl,
I remembered this thread yesterday as I looked at the diagnosis code on my discharge sheet, flipped it over, and saw it meant lumbar spondylosis. No one has ever said this word to me. I came to your post to see what it is! I'm confused, too. Does this mean I have osteoarthritis? Well, I had good results (1/2 day pain relief) from my facet injections/nerve blocks - or so they say that's good - so a week from today I'm getting radio frequency lesioning on a huge area. We will 'kill' the nerves L5-S2 coming out of the si joint and coming out of the facets, so we will see!

Graciegirl, I've got spondylolthesis. I've done a lot of research and what it seems to be is slippage of your vertibrae. There are different grades of this, some more severe than others. I can't give you a site to go to because of the rules on this board but it's not hard to find one on-line. Good luck, Hope this helps!

Well, that's the one thing I DON'T have, if you can believe that! I truly feel for you. Good luck.

I'll have to admit I am a little bit confused yet on all this myself or on all the different types and what means what. Now that I look at it my exray says severe DDD at LS-S1......mild DDD osteoarthritis ? I thought they were both the same......and why did my doc check out my swollen elbow and tell me it was spongey-somethin-or-other ?? It's not the same as what you guys are talkin about in the spine is it ? The one round bone in my elbow is 'bigger' and swells....very hard but round as can be and gets stingy hot sore. And with these back problems do you all have 'flare ups' and then it lets up ? I've had some flare ups that were so excruciateing I did not know what do to do and it overwhelmed me to thinking to doing anything. I'd get scared and it'd last a few weeks then let up a bit and then I'd feel like I was maybe eggagerateing till it flared up again which is MORE then NOT. It seems to go to new areas and rotate....middle spine hurts when lower lets up. (it never totally lets up....a wrong move reminds me of that constantly) My neck is anuther story ! Thanks....sorry if I changed the subject......I tend to rattle on.....NO one else seems to understand how bad this stuff hurts !!! Pam

From what I have been told, spondylosis and spondylothesis are 2 different things. I asked my pain manangement dr what spondylosis was and he said it was a fancy way of saying degenerative condition. Osteoarthritis is a degenerative condition, too. I have OA in my facet joints, and my L5-S1 disc is degenerative (desiccated, protruding, and torn).

Amy R., let me know how your treatment goes. My pm dr is talking about doing that. I too had the facet injections and got about 2 good days out of it. I am anxious to see how yours goes. I go back for another round of injections at the end of the month. Keep me posted. Good luck to you.

Gracie

Hey GracieGirl,
Let's get this thread going again. I saw spondylosis on my sheet again today and asked - he said it basically meant deterioration of the spine due to my work accident (trauma!).
I had the rf lesioning you're interested in today, so I'll post from time to time to tell you how it's going.
Basically, I got sedated, so it was long but not that bad. The novocaine - not lidocaine, and much better - kept me from feeling the burning at all. Actually, the novocaine shots are what hurt. It felt like a basketball being bounced on my back, or a TENS unit placed under the skin, which actually felt good (they were shocked).
I need to go b/c it hurts now, so the bed is calling me. For several hours I couldn't walk b/c the novocaine went down into my legs. They took me out in a wheelchair.
Right now, it just feels like post-any other procedure (which is bad enough), and my epi/injection pains usually last about 3-5 days -- they say I'll have much worse pain than before for 1-3 weeks, and will know if it made a difference at the 4 week mark. That's all I know for now! Got to go lie down!

Amy R. Thank you so much for keeping me posted. I go to my pm dr next week to report on how my facet injections did. Over all I think I felt a bit better. I don't know whether he will do another round or do the procedure you just had done. I am really anxious to hear how you progress. I hope this provides you with much relief. Get some rest and keep me posted. I will do the same!
Gracie

Hey Gracie Girl,
The day after was like the day after of any other procedure, but the next day was absolutely horrible - lie in the bed and cry type horrible. Yesterday, it was a little better - I even trimmed the edges of my honeysuckle and ate in a restaurant. Today, horrible. Not b/c I did anything wrong yesterday - it just goes up and down like that. I basically feel like I have post-procedure pain PLUS my regular back pain. I didn't know the regular back pain would still be there w/ the expected pain. That's probably the part that confuses me the most - when they heat the nerves, do they die right away, or does it take the cells a while to completely die? I don't know. I just know they said the first 1-3 weeks would be 'interesting,' and they are.

I am sorry you are hurting so. I saw your other post as well. I hope you get some relief soon. I went to my pm dr this week, and he wants to wait a bit before he does that procedure with me. I have sooooo many muscle spasms now and he is trying to get those to calm down. Then he will address the facets again. If that doesn't work, he will look at my torn L5-S1 again. Do you have a lot of muscle spasms? Mine are incredible. They go all the way up to my shoulders! Even though my arthritic facets are in my lumbar.

Well, hope this message finds you feeling better. Keep me posted.
Gracie

Spondylosis is part of the aging process.

Osteroarthritis.

Just say no to epidural injections or steroid injections of any kind. Read The Burton Report if you question this statement.

Facet blocks use steroids. That is a big no no :nono:

When they do a facet block they inject steroids in order to see if that is where the pain is coming from. Sure it hurts less than a discogram, both are controversial procedures, and the steroid shot may or may not give you immediate relief, but is it worth risking tissue damage?

Have an EMG instead or a discogram.

They were able to determine that it was my facet joints with an MRI. They were able to determine my husbands with an MRI and then an EMG to see where the pain was coming from. He will be doing Prolotherapy to stablize the are and stop the facet joints from moving around in a way that they are not supposed to move.

A facet joint injection is only a test> The test is actually to see how your symptoms react to the injection. It does not show anything about the nerves or the discs. It does not really involve taking any pictures except to make sure the needle is in the right place.

Botox is being used for muscle spasms if you can find a doctor that does it. One injection stops muscle spasms for three months. And it is safe.

Hey Gracie Girl,
I wrote you a long update last night and wouldn't you know...I pressed 'submit' and the webpage timed out! And I couldn't sit any longer!!! I've had that kind of luck lately.

But....I just posted under the lumbar rf thread going on now, so you can see what I was attempting to tell you, there!

I don't know if I have muscle pain or not...I don't know what is what!! By the way, how did your dr say he's going to go about treating the muscles? Did he say trigger points, or something else?

Good luck!!

Thanks for keeping me posted. I read your reply on the other post regarding your progress. I am glad you are feeling better than you did at first, however I hope you start to see some progress soon. My dr said that since I did not have a strong result from the injections that he wanted to wait to do any more or the rf. I think most of my pain is muscle spasms. He is trying to treat that with meds and another round of a more specialized PT. I am on baclofen and it seems to be working quite a bit so far. I have not started PT yet (paper work you know ...) I go back to the dr in a month and we will discuss a plan. I think I too will be looking at the IDET. I sure hope my insurance will cover it, but you know how that goes. Hope you are feeling better, as always keep us posted and I will let you know how I am doing, too.
Gracie