When my 13 yr old bends down her knees make lots of loud clicking noises (every time)but when she stands up again the noise comes back again and it sounds like a bad crunching and swooshing noise and it hurts her. Is this ok???

No, that's not normal at all. You should take her to see your family physician, they can recommend a specialist if needed.

I'm not sure if it's normal or not. I'm 16 and my knees have been popping like that for as long as I can remember. It also happens with my wrists and ankles.

However, I do agree that you should take her to a doctor. Just in case. I mean, I just found out that I have malalignment of my patella (knee cap) which is causing my popping and grinding and everything of my knees. Not sayin thats the case with her, but better to be safe then sorry

Hi allThank you both for replying. I am wondering now wether to take her to the docs, the problem is someone has pointed out to me my child looks like a Marfan child?????????
I have never heard of this so looked it up on the internet and she does have a few symptoms. Am i being an over the top mother or should i look into this further, is there somewhere on the internet i can check to see if she has this condition???
My daughter is very tall and very skinny, the kids at school make fun of her as she has such very very long hands/fingers ( i will admit they are extremely long,but i don't tell her that). As a younger child she suffered with mild scolioasis of the spine whcih has gone now???
Her wrist click now as well as this knee business,she suffers from a lot of backache and says she cannot sleep on her right side at night as it hurts her spine/back.
She suffers with Asthma and a rare condition know as Tracheo and Laryngo Malacia and also Malacia of left main Bronchus. Could this all be tied in. I do hope not as i know this condition carries a heart risk and that worries me a lot. As a young child she always complied of terrible pains in her chest and she would cry with it, we did get her checked out and they said her heart was fine, that was about 6 years ago, she still now from time to time says she has chest pain. What do you think guys, as a worrier i don't want to keep running to the doc everytime i think she has this symptom or another but the heart side of Marfans worries me. Is there anything that would be more obvious if it was Marfans.

Thank you for any replies.

Caz

Hello again,
I'm sorry you are going through this, but in my mind, it's a VERY good thing that you're a worrier, just be careful not to let it get out of hand. If you are concerned about her having Marfan's, definately go to your doctor! Tell him/her that your concerned about your child having Marfans, tell them all of the symptoms (it may be helpful to make like a list of symptoms, how often they happen, what causes them). If they can't give you an answer, have them refer you to a doctor who specializes in that area. If you want to look up Marfans on the internet, Id just put it in a search engine and look around. Thats what I always do.
Also, please remember that just because she is tall and skinny and has long fingers and everything, DOESN'T mean that she has Marfans. Look at all those basketball players, they're extremely tall. And I bet the majority of them are fine. You also have to remember that even if she looks like she may have it, it doesnt mean that she does. For example, I suffer from migraines and my tell-tale sign of my migraines is that my face flushes. Like so bad that the heat like burns the top layer of skin and it's raw. Doctors sweared up and down that I had lupus from all of my symptoms, but when the blood test came around, Nope...I was fine. They ended up giving me the blood test once a month over 4 months, because for some reason they didn't believe it, or they thought i was in remission or something, but all of them showed that I don't have lupus. So she may have every single symptom of marfans, it doesn't mean that she has it. I don't want to talk you into thinking that she doesn't have it however. I don't know your kid. She may very well have marfans, I just don't want you to get stuck on thinking that she has it, and get totally stressed out.
The thing that does concern me is the fact that she had scoliosis. I honestly never heard of it going away unless the doctors found it at a young age and she was braced for a while. I could be wrong though. Also with the popping of the joints. A think you may think of trying is chiropractic. Even for like a month. Usually they will do an eval of the spine and everything. You could also tell them about the popping. They will probably look at those areas to see if they are subluxed/subluxated -- I forget which word it is. Also, I'm not sure how active she is. But you may want to sign her up for water exercises if running and stuff hurts her spine/joints. Or have her do some weight resistance to build up muscle around those joints. Possibly PT?
Those are my thoughts about this. However, you have to remember that I'm not a doctor, just a 16 year old whose gone through a lot. But id would definately go see a doctor. And dont feel bad or weird about going a lot...heck, I've gone like every week or every other week for a month or so now getting referrals to other docs, or having check ups with new symptoms and stuff. It's for the well being of your daughter, so don't worry if you're going to the doc a lot!
I hope everything works out for you. Good luck!
Jessica

Hi Jess, thanks for the advice, i am confused as what to do to be honest. It is so embarressing if you turn up at the docs and say 'well i think my child has this that or the other' . Since my last post i have contacted a support group thing for marfans who is sending me a leaflet this support group did ask some questions and there are a few more things that did point to my child having Marfans but as you say it could just be a coincidence. The main thing is they said that if there is a small chance it could be marfans as the heart side of things can be a killer you should always take them to the doc, so now i am more confused???? As a mother i know that if she is showing so many symptoms i should take her, but as they don't usually listen to me i don't want to be sent away with my tail between my legs and told not to worry, this support place said to make sure i take her to someone who knows about marfans who will make their own unbiased diagnosis, but i would not know where to start. I live in Surrey in England My child id sue to go onto hospital to have teeth out as she has bad overcrowding and little did i know this is another sign, but also thousands of other kids have this problem who don't have marfans. Going back to the scoliosis she never wore a brace of any kind, the consultant said it was only mild but her spine bent in a funny way and she stands with her back really bent. Now she is 13 and very sporty but she often wakes at night in bad pain in her lower back near the top of her Butt... this makes her cry so i have to sit up and rub her back for her, it spreads out either side and to me it sounds like a bit of sciatica,.
Thansk for you advice

Caz

I entered this twice by mistake...OOOpPPPSS

I don't know if it could be marfans, but since your daughter is suffering and is in pain, she really needs to get a thorough checkup done as soon as possible, even if it requires several doctors visits. (Don't worry about what the doctors might think--she's in pain and needs help). Her back pain sounds similiar to what I experience when I overdo the exercise, and mine is due to osteoarthritis in the lower spine. It's possible she could have some arthritis in her spine (as well as other joints), and if that's the case, something needs to be done to keep down the inflammation because inflammation can cause further deterioration. Or if it turns out to be marfans, there are probably treatments that can help her.

I would start by taking her to a good doctor for a complete physical, tell the doctor all her symptoms, and just see what they find out. They may need to take some x-rays of her joints, or do some other tests. If you don't get any answers, then look into taking her to a doctor that specializes in marfans. Good luck, please let us know what you find.

I have now made an appointment with our doc for Monday 1st March, but i have not told my daughter what for as i don't want to tell her about Marfans as i feel i will scare her uneccessarily. I have decided to take her to the docs because now i have received a leaflet on Marfans it states that if a person has Marfans they are at a greater risk (but not hugely)of death from an aneastetic,well my daughter is due to have an aneastetic in a few weeks time so i am just going to ask my doc straight out, am i being a nuerotic mother or is there a chance she could have marfans????
The marfans people said i should ask to be referred to a geneticist, but i bet the doc won't because where i live it will cost the surgery money, but i need to have my mind put at rest.
I will keep you updated as soon as i know.

Many Thanks

Cazajacks

I don't know about the rest of her symptoms, but her knees sound like Patello-femoral syndrome. Meaning for some reason her quadricep muscle is stronger or tighter and her kneecap is sliding over it when she bends her knees..quite painful. Your post caught my eye b/c the knee thing is exactly what i'm going through..the clicking noise is not a good one. Basically if PFS is left untreated, the cartilage in her knee will become hard, and then soft and resemble "crabmeat". So i'm glad to see you are taking her in tomorrow..I would ask for an x-ray of her knee(s) to rule out PFS.

Hi,

I know exactly the pain your daughter is going through, when I was 12 years old and in school, my shoes started to rub my heels so I asked my teacher for some plasters, at the end of the day my teacher asked me how my heels were and we noticed I had lumps on the back of my heels, infact it wasn't my shoes rubbing me it was these lumps, I can't remember if it was weeks or months but eventually my feet and knees started to hurt me, so much infact my Dad took me to the doctors, I was told I had Gardener's Knee, Housemaid's Knee, eventually my pain got so bad in my legs that I was referred to the hospital for an x-ray, I wasn't given one and was sent away in agony, we had to get a taxi home which was very espensive. My doctor went beserk at the fact I was sent home. My knees started to pop, crack and creak, I was told that I had a curvature of my spine where if you stand me against a wall that you can stick your entire arm between the wall and my back, I went back to the hospital, I ended up in a wheelchair for a short period of time, I was referred to a guy called Dr Glasgow, his "bedside manner" was atrocious, he pushed on my knee cap so hard, it dislodged to about 2 inches from my leg, I was in so much pain I could barely walk, back home I got worse, I was sent to physiotherapy several times, I saw every physio there was at my local hosptial, I saw doctors, specialists and none of them could diagnose me at all, my x-ray revealed my knees were indeed inflammed. I had painkillers, supports, you name it I had it. I was still only 13 or 14 years old. I found out that my knee caps was only held on by a bit of bone, everytime I walked, my knees were rubbing this bone away, when that doctor pushed my knee out of place, no more was it attached, I'm now 25 with a two year old son and still suffering to this day, I can't stand up straight, I too can only lay on my right side, I take painkillers and pregnancy made it worse as I put on about two and a half stone while I was pregnant, luckily I'm back down to a not too bad weight although I could do with losing some more. Anyway you shouldn't be fobbed off by no doctor or specialist, if I had my time again I certainly and so would my parents have argued until I had a solution, the doctors are still looking at what is wrong with me, I now live in Yorkshire so I'm going through all these tests again and everything, please find out the problem with your daughter as I know she must be going through hell, let us know what happens.

Take care
Melissa :wave:

Hi Guys thanks for all the messages and helpful info. Well we went to see the doc and she said she has seen marfans children and my child did not look like one at all. she checked her palate and height and wingspan etc and said i did not have anything to worry about. So i have taken her word for it, only she did ask if she had lax skin and i was a bit shocked when my daughter managed to pull the skin right down off of her elbow, it looked a bit sickening but the doc said she is ok. Anyway i asked about the clicking of her knees and painful back and rt side and she said there is nothing she can do apart from give her painkillers, she felt as my daughter has a conditon called Tracheo and Laryngo Malacia and Malacia of lft main bronchus she must have a problem with her joints all over her body I.E. they are all lax. After i kept on what can we do about the pain she has now said she will send her to a physio therapist, i am hoping the physiotherapist might pick just what is wrong. I feel there might be more to it than the doc is picking up as she did not even bother to ask my child to bend down so she could hear her knees clicking, and my daughter said to her it is so painful for me to bend it is agony and she still didnt even look at her legs...
Anyway i hope the physio will take an interest as i feel she may have seen cases like this before and if so she can send me on to the right consultant. Fingers crossed.One more thing, my sister daughter has trouble with her knees, i don't know what it is but she has had to have metal pins and rods put in her knees as they kept giving way and she would totally collapse, i wonder if this is linked???/ I will update once we have been to physio.

Caz

Hi everyone, we went to Physio today and she found my daughter had a weakness down the whole left side of her body, her ribs, hip,tummy muscles, thigh, knee and other bits. It is much weaker on the one side, she said she needs to build up her strength in this side over a matter of weeks and should see some improvement. I told her i did not agree with her g.p. who said to keep giving my daughter painkillers and the physio said i am right, if a 13 yr old is having to take painkillers for a bad back something is wrong. So now she is starting on some excersizes, hopefullly this will do the trick for her. Thank you all for your tips and advice.

Hi just to give another update, i took my daughter to the optians for her regular eye test, told her she was still having migraines, the optician said that as my duaghter was having migraines over 15 motnhs ago she wants us to go to our doc to ask to be referred to a Neurologist. I did this and the doc is now very concerned that the bad migraines and the weakness down her left hand side could possibly be that she has had a minor stroke???? This never entered my head, we are now waiting for an urgent appointment with a nuerologist to rule out a strokeand to see why she keeps getting migraines and bad head pains/aches.


C

Hey I used to/still have the problem with painful, clicky knees, and so does my mother. The clicking was really really loud, which was mainly a problem when I went to the library!!! I went to the doctor's a lot, they said it was because my kneecap was running on the wrong track. Finally they put me on a waiting list to see an orthopedic surgeon. 11 months later, my name was at the top of the list (although it was put under Semi-Urgent) and I went to see the orthopedic surgeon. The appointment took 5 mins. He said I would grow out of it!!! Even though we told him that my mother still had it, but it wasn't quite as bad as mine at one stage. I often had trouble getting up stairs. 4 years later, I started figure skating. I was surprised, but this helped quite a lot. My knees are still painful and clicky when I bend them, but no where near as bad as they were. Something to do with the muscles being built up and support it or something... But that's my story :D

Hi there. Would you believe that BEFORE I read your post, I was doing my own research for my 11-year old daughter. She has congenital scoliosis, meaning that she has a birth defect causing her scoliosis. She was born with a 40% curve. She has 2 hemi-vertebrae and missing ribs.

I think if you haven't already, you need to take her to an orthopedist right away.

Here is some info I ran across, directed to the physician:

"Begin with a complete history. The child or adolescent, parents, and any other active caregiver should be present. Allowing input from each member offers insight into how the problem affects the patient and family. Start with general questions to elicit an overall systems review; leave specific questions about the spinal deformity for the end of the history taking. This approach will decrease the risk of missing an associated disorder.

Ask about weight loss, fever, lethargy, skin abnormalities, and joint pain and swelling. Focus on the presence of back pain, remembering that such pain is usually abnormal in children. Note time of onset of pain, location, frequency, duration, severity, and character. Night pain is worrisome because it is associated with tumors, infections, and inflammatory conditions. Any radicular pain, abnormal sensation, weakness, changes in bowel or bladder habits, or balance or coordination difficulties are a tip-off to a potential underlying neurologic problem. "

Hi, thanks for you message, we have now stopped physio as she was not sticking to it, she still has awful clicking, noisy knees but just seems to get on with it now. she still complains but not as bad as she was. I find the winter will make things worse??
I will wait for the colder weather as see how things go.

caz

:wave: I have had "Rice Krispie" knees for years. I have Marfans, I am a mom and can understand your concern, it's so hard to be impartial. I would take her to the doctor and don't stop going until you get an answer you are comfortable with. So many don't know about it, docs don't like things they don't know about so fight for an answer that puts you at ease. My philosophy with docs: if I don't feel that I have been treated justly I don't take it sitting down, I don't take it standing up, I don't take it kicking and screaming-this is a life we are talking about. Take care, another Mom

Hi hopeandfaith, its stange but last year i took my daughter to the doc because i wondered if she had marfans. She is sort of double jointed, with long arms and legs,, long finger( very) amongst other things but i felt the doc thought i was a bit stupid to be honest, she said she has seen marfan people and my child is not one. I do still wonder as she is very similar to marfan people but if the doc feels she isnt and it is not in my family. She still suffers witht he painful clicky knees but she stopped her physio as it did not help to be honest and she just gets on with life.

cazajacks,
I went through the entire genetic testing when I was at the National Institute's of Health. Marfan's was one of the conditions being looked at - bone tumors, tall skinny child with long, long digits, tall palate, able to pop my joints in and out of place by choice, and a few other things. I have always been able to place my hand behind my back when standing against a wall - just call me bubble butt, but no "sciolosis". I also have left sided weakness and the bone tumors are more on left-sided as well. I did not have marfan's either, but another diagnosis that no orthopedic in the states could diagnose. Ended up in Italy with a Dr. Bianco who diagnosed me with Angiomatosis of the Bones. There are still several genetic issues that NIH is looking at, but I may be a one-of-a-kind.
Is there somewhere that you can go that does clinical trials and is on the leading edge of diagnosis and treatments for musculoskeletal oncology (yes they treat benign tumors too)?
Let us know how your daughter is doing.
hrtofluv

Hi HRTOFLUV I am afraid my doc just thinks i am the normal neurotic mother, I do still wonder if my child has Marfans but i am a worrier anyway so the docs wont lidten to me anyway. I have no where to go to get her tested unless the docs send me and as i said they dont believe me anyway. I am grateful for any advice you have.

Thanks
cazajacks