bknkll
03-05-2004, 12:24 AM
i looked through the boards for something like this but i couldn't find one, sorry if i'm bringing up an old topic:
how likely is it to develop a dependence on aderall?
how likely is it to develop a dependence on aderall?
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ftlmatt
03-05-2004, 12:37 PM
i looked through the boards for something like this but i couldn't find one, sorry if i'm bringing up an old topic:
how likely is it to develop a dependence on aderall?
since it is an amphetamine...dependence can be very high depending on the person. however if the medication is helping, i wouldn't see dependence as a big problem unless you decide to go off of it..i take dexedrine and never plan on going off of it due to it's effectiveness in treating my add/depression
how likely is it to develop a dependence on aderall?
since it is an amphetamine...dependence can be very high depending on the person. however if the medication is helping, i wouldn't see dependence as a big problem unless you decide to go off of it..i take dexedrine and never plan on going off of it due to it's effectiveness in treating my add/depression
oceanchic
03-05-2004, 03:00 PM
since it is an amphetamine...dependence can be very high depending on the person. however if the medication is helping, i wouldn't see dependence as a big problem unless you decide to go off of it..i take dexedrine and never plan on going off of it due to it's effectiveness in treating my add/depression
I agree, I would say that it completly depends on the person who is taking the medication. I currently take 60 mg of Adderall XR and have been on it for about 7 years and I am not addicted. I also don't see myself going off of it because of how much it has helped me. There are a lot of medications out there which can be addicting, I mean i know people who have become addicted to nose spray!! I would say use your best judgement and don't abuse the medication and you should be fine. Good luck to you, hope this helps!
I agree, I would say that it completly depends on the person who is taking the medication. I currently take 60 mg of Adderall XR and have been on it for about 7 years and I am not addicted. I also don't see myself going off of it because of how much it has helped me. There are a lot of medications out there which can be addicting, I mean i know people who have become addicted to nose spray!! I would say use your best judgement and don't abuse the medication and you should be fine. Good luck to you, hope this helps!
ftlmatt
03-05-2004, 03:02 PM
honestly i have found caffeine and smoking to be much more addictive to me than any other drug on this planet!!! even more than dextroamphetamine and methamphetamine
Jennita
03-05-2004, 03:22 PM
i looked through the boards for something like this but i couldn't find one, sorry if i'm bringing up an old topic:
how likely is it to develop a dependence on aderall?
Very likey, although dependance happens at different rates for different people and different drugs/doses. Most will say dependance doesn't matter if you are planning to continue the drug forever. However, things like drug tolerance and emergence of side effects can pop up suddenly even after years of use, which is a problem greater than dependancy. And, when taking a dependancy-producing drug, make sure you'll never be out of work or insurance! Also, there are numerous health problems that can arise after many years of use.
how likely is it to develop a dependence on aderall?
Very likey, although dependance happens at different rates for different people and different drugs/doses. Most will say dependance doesn't matter if you are planning to continue the drug forever. However, things like drug tolerance and emergence of side effects can pop up suddenly even after years of use, which is a problem greater than dependancy. And, when taking a dependancy-producing drug, make sure you'll never be out of work or insurance! Also, there are numerous health problems that can arise after many years of use.
oceanchic
03-05-2004, 05:55 PM
i looked through the boards for something like this but i couldn't find one, sorry if i'm bringing up an old topic:
how likely is it to develop a dependence on aderall?
Here is an interesting study I found.......
Long-term Use of Extended-Release Adderall Appears Safe, Efficacious for Adults With Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder
SAN FRANCISCO, CA -- May 26, 2003 -- Once-daily Adderall XR is effective and well tolerated for the long-term treatment of attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in adults, according to an interim analysis of 10-month data from an extension study.
The data were presented here on May 21st at the 156th Annual Meeting of the American Psychiatric Association.
"We were quite encouraged to see that, at this stage of the study, not only has Adderall therapy been safe and efficacious, but every patient showed improvement in core symptoms of the condition, with no evidence of an emerging drug tolerance," said presenter and investigator Richard Weisler, MD, psychiatric researcher at Duke University Medical School in Durham, North Carolina, United States. Dr. Weisler is also in private practice in Raleigh, North Carolina.
The investigators enrolled 223 adults with a mean age of 39.8 years who had participated in a 4-week, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, forced-dose titration study of once-daily Adderall XR. During the initial study, the researchers titrated dosing to determine optimal therapeutic effects with minimum adverse events. All subjects met Diagnostic and Statistical Manual IV (DSM-IV) criteria for ADHD and had a history of the condition prior to age 7.
For the extension study, the investigators took monthly vital signs and adverse event reports. They collected electrocardiographic data and laboratory measures at months 3 and 6 and at 12-month end point. They assessed ongoing treatment efficacy each month using the 18-item ADHD Rating Scale (ADHD-RS) for adults.
The criteria for inclusion in the extension study included at least 1 week of treatment in the antecedent study; 21 of the subjects in the extension study met that criterion but had a time-gap in Adderall treatment prior to the beginning of the extension study.
Results of the extension study show that the 57 patients who had received placebo during the initial study had the greatest improvement in ADHD-RS scores from baseline to interim end point, with a mean change of -11.9 (P<0.001). Patients who took Adderall XR with interruption (n=21) during the initial study had significant improvement in ADHD-RS scores from baseline to end point, with a mean change of -7.6 (P=0.041), as did the 145 patients with no interruption (mean change -6.0; P<0.001).
The most common adverse events were dry mouth, reported by 42% of treated patients; anorexia (30%); insomnia (25%); and headache (21%).
"Every subject has shown ongoing improvement in symptoms at this 10-month point," Dr. Weisler added.
He also said that the incidence of commonly reported adverse events has dropped over time during the study.
how likely is it to develop a dependence on aderall?
Here is an interesting study I found.......
Long-term Use of Extended-Release Adderall Appears Safe, Efficacious for Adults With Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder
SAN FRANCISCO, CA -- May 26, 2003 -- Once-daily Adderall XR is effective and well tolerated for the long-term treatment of attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in adults, according to an interim analysis of 10-month data from an extension study.
The data were presented here on May 21st at the 156th Annual Meeting of the American Psychiatric Association.
"We were quite encouraged to see that, at this stage of the study, not only has Adderall therapy been safe and efficacious, but every patient showed improvement in core symptoms of the condition, with no evidence of an emerging drug tolerance," said presenter and investigator Richard Weisler, MD, psychiatric researcher at Duke University Medical School in Durham, North Carolina, United States. Dr. Weisler is also in private practice in Raleigh, North Carolina.
The investigators enrolled 223 adults with a mean age of 39.8 years who had participated in a 4-week, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, forced-dose titration study of once-daily Adderall XR. During the initial study, the researchers titrated dosing to determine optimal therapeutic effects with minimum adverse events. All subjects met Diagnostic and Statistical Manual IV (DSM-IV) criteria for ADHD and had a history of the condition prior to age 7.
For the extension study, the investigators took monthly vital signs and adverse event reports. They collected electrocardiographic data and laboratory measures at months 3 and 6 and at 12-month end point. They assessed ongoing treatment efficacy each month using the 18-item ADHD Rating Scale (ADHD-RS) for adults.
The criteria for inclusion in the extension study included at least 1 week of treatment in the antecedent study; 21 of the subjects in the extension study met that criterion but had a time-gap in Adderall treatment prior to the beginning of the extension study.
Results of the extension study show that the 57 patients who had received placebo during the initial study had the greatest improvement in ADHD-RS scores from baseline to interim end point, with a mean change of -11.9 (P<0.001). Patients who took Adderall XR with interruption (n=21) during the initial study had significant improvement in ADHD-RS scores from baseline to end point, with a mean change of -7.6 (P=0.041), as did the 145 patients with no interruption (mean change -6.0; P<0.001).
The most common adverse events were dry mouth, reported by 42% of treated patients; anorexia (30%); insomnia (25%); and headache (21%).
"Every subject has shown ongoing improvement in symptoms at this 10-month point," Dr. Weisler added.
He also said that the incidence of commonly reported adverse events has dropped over time during the study.
ftlmatt
03-05-2004, 08:58 PM
Very likey, although dependance happens at different rates for different people and different drugs/doses. Most will say dependance doesn't matter if you are planning to continue the drug forever. However, things like drug tolerance and emergence of side effects can pop up suddenly even after years of use, which is a problem greater than dependancy. And, when taking a dependancy-producing drug, make sure you'll never be out of work or insurance! Also, there are numerous health problems that can arise after many years of use.
actually studies have shown that when stimulants are used properly, side-effects and drug tolerance are very low. but because everyone is different, so will their results...however many people have it drilled into their head that because they are amphetamines, there will be problems no matter what. this is untrue and unproven. i actually think that there are drugs a lot worse than amphetamines...alcohol, cigarettes, etc. i believe this is due to the fact that in our society...cigarettes and alcohol are ok because they are legal and socially acceptable. and society sees amphetamines as dangerous and dirty because that is what they are raised to think.
actually studies have shown that when stimulants are used properly, side-effects and drug tolerance are very low. but because everyone is different, so will their results...however many people have it drilled into their head that because they are amphetamines, there will be problems no matter what. this is untrue and unproven. i actually think that there are drugs a lot worse than amphetamines...alcohol, cigarettes, etc. i believe this is due to the fact that in our society...cigarettes and alcohol are ok because they are legal and socially acceptable. and society sees amphetamines as dangerous and dirty because that is what they are raised to think.
sodawater
03-05-2004, 09:04 PM
Cigarettes, Alcohol and Caffeine are deadly for ADD. From what my own therapist tells me, this is mainly because they work so effectively to regulate our symptoms. Based on my own absolutely ludicrous difficulty quitting smoking, I agree.
He also tells me that if Ritalin (and thus I assume other stimulant meds) works for an ADD-er the way it should, it can't become addictive. I assume this is related to how stimulants work the opposite on ADDers than they do on non ADDers. Hmmm. Does anyone know more about this?
He also tells me that if Ritalin (and thus I assume other stimulant meds) works for an ADD-er the way it should, it can't become addictive. I assume this is related to how stimulants work the opposite on ADDers than they do on non ADDers. Hmmm. Does anyone know more about this?
brainf0g
03-06-2004, 06:54 AM
Yes if it normalizes activity in the frontal lobes to the way they should be, the pain-reward mechanism will be satisfied and you'll have no need or want to smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, etc.
Jennita
03-06-2004, 10:35 PM
There is a world of difference between physical dependancy and addiction; addiction is a behavior whereas physical dependancy is not. These drugs can cause dependancy, adverse reactions, future mental/physical health problems over time.
Studies that declare "safe" vary on what one's definition of safe is...no death from Adderall but instead a future heart condition could be considered "safe" now, couldn't it? And who pays for these studies but the drug companies themselves. Another question, how many adverse event clinical studies get published, since that is usually up to the ones who run the show...for example, there is already a major news story out there about bad result clinical trials on AD's for kids that did not get published in medical journals, but rather filed away, basically the public was not informed of the results.There is alot of deception going on/has been going on which is just now surfacing in the mainstream media, although these stories have been around for a long time.
Studies that declare "safe" vary on what one's definition of safe is...no death from Adderall but instead a future heart condition could be considered "safe" now, couldn't it? And who pays for these studies but the drug companies themselves. Another question, how many adverse event clinical studies get published, since that is usually up to the ones who run the show...for example, there is already a major news story out there about bad result clinical trials on AD's for kids that did not get published in medical journals, but rather filed away, basically the public was not informed of the results.There is alot of deception going on/has been going on which is just now surfacing in the mainstream media, although these stories have been around for a long time.
ftlmatt
03-07-2004, 05:55 PM
There is a world of difference between physical dependancy and addiction; addiction is a behavior whereas physical dependancy is not. These drugs can cause dependancy, adverse reactions, future mental/physical health problems over time.
Studies that declare "safe" vary on what one's definition of safe is...no death from Adderall but instead a future heart condition could be considered "safe" now, couldn't it? And who pays for these studies but the drug companies themselves. Another question, how many adverse event clinical studies get published, since that is usually up to the ones who run the show...for example, there is already a major news story out there about bad result clinical trials on AD's for kids that did not get published in medical journals, but rather filed away, basically the public was not informed of the results.There is alot of deception going on/has been going on which is just now surfacing in the mainstream media, although these stories have been around for a long time.
i'll tell u that living with and dealing with add/depression for as long as i can remember, i will take my chances on taking medication that gave me my life back.
i don't bielieve in that deception thing. that is like saying when the tobacco industry lied about nicotine being addictive. any sensible person could have came to their own conclusion that nicotine was addictive..i didn't need anyone to tell me that! it's called common sense and that goes for any other medication. it is up to the consumer to find out for themselves both the negatives and positives of taking medications. those who rely on the drug companies or any other opinion is just looking for someone else to blame for their laziness and not doing their own research. we are not babies and we have access to the internet and a variety of other research tools.
Studies that declare "safe" vary on what one's definition of safe is...no death from Adderall but instead a future heart condition could be considered "safe" now, couldn't it? And who pays for these studies but the drug companies themselves. Another question, how many adverse event clinical studies get published, since that is usually up to the ones who run the show...for example, there is already a major news story out there about bad result clinical trials on AD's for kids that did not get published in medical journals, but rather filed away, basically the public was not informed of the results.There is alot of deception going on/has been going on which is just now surfacing in the mainstream media, although these stories have been around for a long time.
i'll tell u that living with and dealing with add/depression for as long as i can remember, i will take my chances on taking medication that gave me my life back.
i don't bielieve in that deception thing. that is like saying when the tobacco industry lied about nicotine being addictive. any sensible person could have came to their own conclusion that nicotine was addictive..i didn't need anyone to tell me that! it's called common sense and that goes for any other medication. it is up to the consumer to find out for themselves both the negatives and positives of taking medications. those who rely on the drug companies or any other opinion is just looking for someone else to blame for their laziness and not doing their own research. we are not babies and we have access to the internet and a variety of other research tools.
Jennita
03-08-2004, 02:13 AM
i'll tell u that living with and dealing with add/depression for as long as i can remember, i will take my chances on taking medication that gave me my life back.
i don't bielieve in that deception thing. that is like saying when the tobacco industry lied about nicotine being addictive. any sensible person could have came to their own conclusion that nicotine was addictive..i didn't need anyone to tell me that! it's called common sense and that goes for any other medication. it is up to the consumer to find out for themselves both the negatives and positives of taking medications. those who rely on the drug companies or any other opinion is just looking for someone else to blame for their laziness and not doing their own research. we are not babies and we have access to the internet and a variety of other research tools.
I am not telling you what to do, you can take pills; it is you who will live with whatever that brings. But I am saying there is definate proof of deception, legitamate news stories have popped up recently not only dealing with unpublished clinical trials, but also with one drug rep who was ordered by the drug company head to "sell" Neurontin to docs to treat all sorts of off-label uses. The rep went to the news media after awhile since he was a scientist too and started to worry about the severe side-effects people would get from a drug that shouldn't have been prescribed in the first place....he feared he would end up on the bad end of a lawsuit.
So you don't have to believe in this deception thing, but it does exist. And I really can't speak for all people, but I doubt they are all too "lazy" to look up things. I think usually it is a matter of trust; if your doctor says this will help you, usually you trust him to know what's best. After all, he went to med school. Cigarettes are a bit different in that nobody was telling people they needed cigarettes for any medical condition.
I believe most people listen to their doctors because logically it would seem the best course.....aka "anyone who tries to doctor themselves has a fool for a patient", right?
Modern medicine can be a wonderful thing, but it has also become big-business and has stockholders like everything else.
i don't bielieve in that deception thing. that is like saying when the tobacco industry lied about nicotine being addictive. any sensible person could have came to their own conclusion that nicotine was addictive..i didn't need anyone to tell me that! it's called common sense and that goes for any other medication. it is up to the consumer to find out for themselves both the negatives and positives of taking medications. those who rely on the drug companies or any other opinion is just looking for someone else to blame for their laziness and not doing their own research. we are not babies and we have access to the internet and a variety of other research tools.
I am not telling you what to do, you can take pills; it is you who will live with whatever that brings. But I am saying there is definate proof of deception, legitamate news stories have popped up recently not only dealing with unpublished clinical trials, but also with one drug rep who was ordered by the drug company head to "sell" Neurontin to docs to treat all sorts of off-label uses. The rep went to the news media after awhile since he was a scientist too and started to worry about the severe side-effects people would get from a drug that shouldn't have been prescribed in the first place....he feared he would end up on the bad end of a lawsuit.
So you don't have to believe in this deception thing, but it does exist. And I really can't speak for all people, but I doubt they are all too "lazy" to look up things. I think usually it is a matter of trust; if your doctor says this will help you, usually you trust him to know what's best. After all, he went to med school. Cigarettes are a bit different in that nobody was telling people they needed cigarettes for any medical condition.
I believe most people listen to their doctors because logically it would seem the best course.....aka "anyone who tries to doctor themselves has a fool for a patient", right?
Modern medicine can be a wonderful thing, but it has also become big-business and has stockholders like everything else.
* Free ~ Spirit *
03-08-2004, 01:12 PM
Ocean,
Nice study, but unfortunantly 10months is hardly "long-term" Many people start taking meds at around age 5yrs old and are on them for a period closer to 10 years or more.
Nice study, but unfortunantly 10months is hardly "long-term" Many people start taking meds at around age 5yrs old and are on them for a period closer to 10 years or more.
Jennita
03-08-2004, 02:37 PM
Ocean,
Nice study, but unfortunantly 10months is hardly "long-term" Many people start taking meds at around age 5yrs old and are on them for a period closer to 10 years or more.
Good point, I missed that! I also noticed that "safe" also meant the adverse effects like insomnia and anorexia were ok to live with, even though it is known that both can lead to clinical depression and bad health. I guess "safe" really just means nobody died or went insane during those 10 months. Everything else is up for grabs.
Nice study, but unfortunantly 10months is hardly "long-term" Many people start taking meds at around age 5yrs old and are on them for a period closer to 10 years or more.
Good point, I missed that! I also noticed that "safe" also meant the adverse effects like insomnia and anorexia were ok to live with, even though it is known that both can lead to clinical depression and bad health. I guess "safe" really just means nobody died or went insane during those 10 months. Everything else is up for grabs.
* Free ~ Spirit *
03-08-2004, 04:03 PM
it's called common sense and that goes for any other medication. it is up to the consumer to find out for themselves both the negatives and positives of taking medications.
Unfortunantly it seems that now days common sense is in short supply. Sure, for some people medication is the only treatment. They may choose to take medication long-term. Anyone taking medication though, should be aware of the possible side effects, both physical and psychological. This way they can make an informed decision to take the medication. The sad fact is that most people don't know about the possible side effects. Even worse, those taking the medication are usually too young to choose whether or not to take medication. Parents who are desprate to help their children are told to give their child this pill to "help" them. Doctors rarely tell parents/patiants about the possible risks associated with these drugs. In fact, some doctors will flat out deny that any serious side effects exist. Common sense would tell you otherwise, obviously there is a possibility of serious side effects with these medications. But people are scared, vulnerable, desperate to help their children. And who's there to "help"? The doctors, the drug companies. When people are desperate they believe what they want to believe. No parent wants to think that the medication they give to their child can be potentially harmful. They want to believe the drug companies studies, the articles, and the doctors who say that its all perfectly safe.
Unfortunantly it seems that now days common sense is in short supply. Sure, for some people medication is the only treatment. They may choose to take medication long-term. Anyone taking medication though, should be aware of the possible side effects, both physical and psychological. This way they can make an informed decision to take the medication. The sad fact is that most people don't know about the possible side effects. Even worse, those taking the medication are usually too young to choose whether or not to take medication. Parents who are desprate to help their children are told to give their child this pill to "help" them. Doctors rarely tell parents/patiants about the possible risks associated with these drugs. In fact, some doctors will flat out deny that any serious side effects exist. Common sense would tell you otherwise, obviously there is a possibility of serious side effects with these medications. But people are scared, vulnerable, desperate to help their children. And who's there to "help"? The doctors, the drug companies. When people are desperate they believe what they want to believe. No parent wants to think that the medication they give to their child can be potentially harmful. They want to believe the drug companies studies, the articles, and the doctors who say that its all perfectly safe.
* Free ~ Spirit *
03-08-2004, 04:07 PM
Good point, I missed that! I also noticed that "safe" also meant the adverse effects like insomnia and anorexia were ok to live with, even though it is known that both can lead to clinical depression and bad health. I guess "safe" really just means nobody died or went insane during those 10 months. Everything else is up for grabs.
If these side effects are what they put out there as "safe" just think how awful the side effects they hide from the general public are!
If these side effects are what they put out there as "safe" just think how awful the side effects they hide from the general public are!
oceanchic
03-08-2004, 05:36 PM
Ocean,
Nice study, but unfortunantly 10months is hardly "long-term" Many people start taking meds at around age 5yrs old and are on them for a period closer to 10 years or more.
I am interested to read a study that shows negative side effects that can occure after being on stimulants for 10 years or more. So far all i can find is tests done on Rats? In my opinion a 10 month study on humans is better than a 2 year study on rats? If you can direct me to any of these articles I would appreciate it!
Nice study, but unfortunantly 10months is hardly "long-term" Many people start taking meds at around age 5yrs old and are on them for a period closer to 10 years or more.
I am interested to read a study that shows negative side effects that can occure after being on stimulants for 10 years or more. So far all i can find is tests done on Rats? In my opinion a 10 month study on humans is better than a 2 year study on rats? If you can direct me to any of these articles I would appreciate it!
* Free ~ Spirit *
03-08-2004, 05:57 PM
I know people who are suffering with side effects caused by long term use of these meds. I don't need studies to tell me that serious side effects are possible. I just use common sense. The studies put out are done by drug companies. Pharmacutical companies only publish the positive results. Negative responses are usually hidden from the public. People need to use common sense and think for themselves. I personally think that its pretty lame to depend on studies for all of your information. (not you!!! just in general I mean) People need to think for themselves instead of just going along with the crowd. I have experience with this medication and I know many other people who have taken it in the past and some who are taking it currently. I work with many children who were medicated early on with stimulants. I have seen first hand the damage it can cause. This, to me, is more relevant than any study!
Jennita
03-09-2004, 02:11 AM
I am interested to read a study that shows negative side effects that can occure after being on stimulants for 10 years or more. So far all i can find is tests done on Rats? In my opinion a 10 month study on humans is better than a 2 year study on rats? If you can direct me to any of these articles I would appreciate it!
Most "positive" studies are out there because drug companies pay for and have control over them. Also, there is the hope of independant studies, not payed for by drug companies but I suppose it's harder to get funding. The rat studies should be considered as viable, because they have done these sorts of studies to discover things like toxic effects of smoking and some cancer-causing chemicals. I think they even discovered the protein mutation in rats that lead to knowing about mad-cow disease and how that works. Sure, they give rats high doses but that's to establish toxic reactions and usually represents long-term changes in brain cells since some toxins take many years to do damage...for example, smoking cigarettes for 2 months will not get you cancer as it takes years.
I know it's frustrating to find real studies on this issue because of the funding-issues and power of the drug companies. But all good things take time; someday they will have better, more complete studies for us. Meanwhile, like FreeSpirit says, experience is the best teacher....
Most "positive" studies are out there because drug companies pay for and have control over them. Also, there is the hope of independant studies, not payed for by drug companies but I suppose it's harder to get funding. The rat studies should be considered as viable, because they have done these sorts of studies to discover things like toxic effects of smoking and some cancer-causing chemicals. I think they even discovered the protein mutation in rats that lead to knowing about mad-cow disease and how that works. Sure, they give rats high doses but that's to establish toxic reactions and usually represents long-term changes in brain cells since some toxins take many years to do damage...for example, smoking cigarettes for 2 months will not get you cancer as it takes years.
I know it's frustrating to find real studies on this issue because of the funding-issues and power of the drug companies. But all good things take time; someday they will have better, more complete studies for us. Meanwhile, like FreeSpirit says, experience is the best teacher....
oceanchic
03-10-2004, 12:15 PM
Most "positive" studies are out there because drug companies pay for and have control over them. Also, there is the hope of independant studies, not payed for by drug companies but I suppose it's harder to get funding. The rat studies should be considered as viable, because they have done these sorts of studies to discover things like toxic effects of smoking and some cancer-causing chemicals. I think they even discovered the protein mutation in rats that lead to knowing about mad-cow disease and how that works. Sure, they give rats high doses but that's to establish toxic reactions and usually represents long-term changes in brain cells since some toxins take many years to do damage...for example, smoking cigarettes for 2 months will not get you cancer as it takes years.
I know it's frustrating to find real studies on this issue because of the funding-issues and power of the drug companies. But all good things take time; someday they will have better, more complete studies for us. Meanwhile, like FreeSpirit says, experience is the best teacher....
Thanks for the info, I agree it is frusterating that there aren't any real studies out there to show the damages of long term stimulant use. Being someone who has been on stimulants for 10 years and haven't had any side effects as of yet it is a little concerning when I read posts that talk about all the negative things that can happen.
Free Spirit~ I am curious to know how the people you know who have suffered problems from long term stimulant use deal with it now? Also what kind of problems have you seen? Mentally or physically? I guess I am one of the lucky one's who hasn't had any problems but I would still like to know what kind of problems others have had.
I know it's frustrating to find real studies on this issue because of the funding-issues and power of the drug companies. But all good things take time; someday they will have better, more complete studies for us. Meanwhile, like FreeSpirit says, experience is the best teacher....
Thanks for the info, I agree it is frusterating that there aren't any real studies out there to show the damages of long term stimulant use. Being someone who has been on stimulants for 10 years and haven't had any side effects as of yet it is a little concerning when I read posts that talk about all the negative things that can happen.
Free Spirit~ I am curious to know how the people you know who have suffered problems from long term stimulant use deal with it now? Also what kind of problems have you seen? Mentally or physically? I guess I am one of the lucky one's who hasn't had any problems but I would still like to know what kind of problems others have had.
Jennita
03-10-2004, 03:03 PM
Again, remember, it can take many years before one will develop lung cancer from cigarettes, and some people will not have obvious problems with stimulants for years, then one day something happens, but usually is blamed on luck of life instead of drug effects.
You have been lucky so far; amphetamines are very hard on the heart and constricts blood flow, sometimes resulting in high blood pressure or heart problems. The mood swings they can cause also cause manic-depressive symptoms or aggression. I would say it would be a good idea for you to look up the adverse effects on the drug PDF and read carefully for future reference. Also, if you are taking any other drugs like AD's , benzodiazepines, or beta-blockers, they are used to counteract stimulant side effects but their effects may weaken in time.
Now, you can't just quit these drugs. Although you are not "addicted" per se, you probably are very dependant by now...this means your brain will not be able to function properly without the drugs.... very slow weaning would be the only way, and it's uncertain how long it would take the brain to function like it should again. There is a recovery period and sometimes withdrawing includes depression. So if you ever decide you want to wean, do it very, very slowly.
Addiction and dependancy are intertwined; dependancy is physical only but when you add complusive behavior, euphoria-seeking, and social issues, then you have addiction. This difference is how they can claim non-addiciton in alot of drugs like antidepressants because "addiciton" is different than "dependancy". Of course, since we are talking about stimulants, those are a bit more likely to cause addiction sometimes than other drugs, but all psychoactive drugs can cause just the physical dependancy.
Anyway, below is an explanation one addictions specialist in benzodiazepine drugs wrote concerning the differences:
"Addiction is a biopsychosocial syndrome. Less than ten percent of the population is at risk. Although there are eight diagnostic criteria, three of which must be present for a year; the syndrome can best be described by "the 3 Cs".
Control: when the addicted person starts using their drug they episodically lose control over their ingestion.
Compulsion: getting and using the drug takes on more and more importance or salience in the person's life, crowding out relationships and activities that were once important to them.
Consequences: they continue using the drug despite the drug causing problems at home, problems in relationships, medical problems, legal problems, emotional and psychiatric problems and finally vocational problems.
Physical dependence is simply a neurobiological phenomenon due to continued exposure to a drug. It happens to all human brains exposed to drugs such as benzodiazepines and opioids. It is not addiction......"
You have been lucky so far; amphetamines are very hard on the heart and constricts blood flow, sometimes resulting in high blood pressure or heart problems. The mood swings they can cause also cause manic-depressive symptoms or aggression. I would say it would be a good idea for you to look up the adverse effects on the drug PDF and read carefully for future reference. Also, if you are taking any other drugs like AD's , benzodiazepines, or beta-blockers, they are used to counteract stimulant side effects but their effects may weaken in time.
Now, you can't just quit these drugs. Although you are not "addicted" per se, you probably are very dependant by now...this means your brain will not be able to function properly without the drugs.... very slow weaning would be the only way, and it's uncertain how long it would take the brain to function like it should again. There is a recovery period and sometimes withdrawing includes depression. So if you ever decide you want to wean, do it very, very slowly.
Addiction and dependancy are intertwined; dependancy is physical only but when you add complusive behavior, euphoria-seeking, and social issues, then you have addiction. This difference is how they can claim non-addiciton in alot of drugs like antidepressants because "addiciton" is different than "dependancy". Of course, since we are talking about stimulants, those are a bit more likely to cause addiction sometimes than other drugs, but all psychoactive drugs can cause just the physical dependancy.
Anyway, below is an explanation one addictions specialist in benzodiazepine drugs wrote concerning the differences:
"Addiction is a biopsychosocial syndrome. Less than ten percent of the population is at risk. Although there are eight diagnostic criteria, three of which must be present for a year; the syndrome can best be described by "the 3 Cs".
Control: when the addicted person starts using their drug they episodically lose control over their ingestion.
Compulsion: getting and using the drug takes on more and more importance or salience in the person's life, crowding out relationships and activities that were once important to them.
Consequences: they continue using the drug despite the drug causing problems at home, problems in relationships, medical problems, legal problems, emotional and psychiatric problems and finally vocational problems.
Physical dependence is simply a neurobiological phenomenon due to continued exposure to a drug. It happens to all human brains exposed to drugs such as benzodiazepines and opioids. It is not addiction......"
* Free ~ Spirit *
03-10-2004, 09:17 PM
Free Spirit~ I am curious to know how the people you know who have suffered problems from long term stimulant use deal with it now? Also what kind of problems have you seen? Mentally or physically? I guess I am one of the lucky one's who hasn't had any problems but I would still like to know what kind of problems others have had.
You didnt take any medications until you were older. Some adults do end up suffering from negative effects but mainly the people who have serious side effects are those who began taking the medication at a young age and were on it for a long period of time (a few years or more) Some of the problems that can be caused are addiction, the person needs more and more of the medication for it to be effective. Eventually the dose gets extremely high. The person starts abusing the medication. Psychological issues are common. After being on meds for ADHD the brain can become unable to function properly. This is hard to explain but lets say on a scale of 1-10 1 means that the brain is not functioning correctly at all 10 meaning the brain is in top condition. Lets say a person with ADHD is at about a 7. They take the medication and now theyre functioning at a 10. Eventually the meds will lose effect. It will take more and more to keep the person at a 10. Eventually even with medication function may be reduced to 7 or 8. Now lets say the person decides to stop the medication. They will now be functioning at a 4 or 5 which is worse than before they ever began the medication. I was like this for about a year after quitting meds, it was HELL. It can also cause psychosis... permanent psychosis. This is rare but it happens. Stimulants can also cause depression, but this usually goes away within a few months - a year of quitting the medication.
With people who start taking the medication at an older age there is still risk of psychological issues but obviously the risk isnt as high. (Your brain is finished growing so growth isnt effected) Some of the physical things it can cause are heart problems. I personally know 2 people who have had heart attacks where the doctor declared the cause was stimulant medication. Both of these people had been physically examined and had no prior heart problems. Another physical effect stimulant meds can cause is major fatigue. For most people this is not permanent. But it can last up to a year after quitting the medication.
You didnt take any medications until you were older. Some adults do end up suffering from negative effects but mainly the people who have serious side effects are those who began taking the medication at a young age and were on it for a long period of time (a few years or more) Some of the problems that can be caused are addiction, the person needs more and more of the medication for it to be effective. Eventually the dose gets extremely high. The person starts abusing the medication. Psychological issues are common. After being on meds for ADHD the brain can become unable to function properly. This is hard to explain but lets say on a scale of 1-10 1 means that the brain is not functioning correctly at all 10 meaning the brain is in top condition. Lets say a person with ADHD is at about a 7. They take the medication and now theyre functioning at a 10. Eventually the meds will lose effect. It will take more and more to keep the person at a 10. Eventually even with medication function may be reduced to 7 or 8. Now lets say the person decides to stop the medication. They will now be functioning at a 4 or 5 which is worse than before they ever began the medication. I was like this for about a year after quitting meds, it was HELL. It can also cause psychosis... permanent psychosis. This is rare but it happens. Stimulants can also cause depression, but this usually goes away within a few months - a year of quitting the medication.
With people who start taking the medication at an older age there is still risk of psychological issues but obviously the risk isnt as high. (Your brain is finished growing so growth isnt effected) Some of the physical things it can cause are heart problems. I personally know 2 people who have had heart attacks where the doctor declared the cause was stimulant medication. Both of these people had been physically examined and had no prior heart problems. Another physical effect stimulant meds can cause is major fatigue. For most people this is not permanent. But it can last up to a year after quitting the medication.
sodawater
03-10-2004, 10:40 PM
I respect that you are largely opposed to medication but it also has me wondering exactly what your own alternative treatment plan is. I'm especially interested because I know you can compare your experiences on medication and off. If you are comfortable doing so, could you outline it at some point? Or maybe direct me to another post where you already have. Also, do you use a psychologist, LCSW or coach to help you manage your time?
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
* Free ~ Spirit *
03-10-2004, 11:10 PM
I respect that you are largely opposed to medication but it also has me wondering exactly what your own alternative treatment plan is. I'm especially interested because I know you can compare your experiences on medication and off. If you are comfortable doing so, could you outline it at some point? Or maybe direct me to another post where you already have. Also, do you use a psychologist, LCSW or coach to help you manage your time?
Thanks in advance.
Its not that I think these medications should never be used. I just think they are prescribed way too often when they are not needed. I do think that they are helpful for some people. I just think the safest options should be tried first hand, and meds should be prescribed only when its absolutely necessary.
I use supplements, diet, excercise, meditation/self hypnosis. I don't have a coach currently but am trying to get one. Hopefully I will find one, I really need to work on organizational skills and time management.
Obviously, the safest treatment would be behavior modification or nuerofeedback. (Youre not putting any substance into your body to alter your brain chemistry with these treatments)
Supplements can have side effects if they are not used properly or are given in too high of doses. But at average doses they are safe and effective. I tried behavior therapy without medication/supplements but was unable to really benefit from it so I added supplements to my treatment plan.
Did you have any specific questions about the difference between medication and my current treatment plan? I'll try to give more info, your question was pretty vague though, so Im not really sure what kind of info you are interested in.
Let me know!
Thanks in advance.
Its not that I think these medications should never be used. I just think they are prescribed way too often when they are not needed. I do think that they are helpful for some people. I just think the safest options should be tried first hand, and meds should be prescribed only when its absolutely necessary.
I use supplements, diet, excercise, meditation/self hypnosis. I don't have a coach currently but am trying to get one. Hopefully I will find one, I really need to work on organizational skills and time management.
Obviously, the safest treatment would be behavior modification or nuerofeedback. (Youre not putting any substance into your body to alter your brain chemistry with these treatments)
Supplements can have side effects if they are not used properly or are given in too high of doses. But at average doses they are safe and effective. I tried behavior therapy without medication/supplements but was unable to really benefit from it so I added supplements to my treatment plan.
Did you have any specific questions about the difference between medication and my current treatment plan? I'll try to give more info, your question was pretty vague though, so Im not really sure what kind of info you are interested in.
Let me know!
sodawater
03-12-2004, 04:19 AM
Its not that I think these medications should never be used. I just think they are prescribed way too often when they are not needed. I do think that they are helpful for some people. I just think the safest options should be tried first hand, and meds should be prescribed only when its absolutely necessary.
I use supplements, diet, excercise, meditation/self hypnosis. I don't have a coach currently but am trying to get one. Hopefully I will find one, I really need to work on organizational skills and time management.
Obviously, the safest treatment would be behavior modification or nuerofeedback. (Youre not putting any substance into your body to alter your brain chemistry with these treatments)
Supplements can have side effects if they are not used properly or are given in too high of doses. But at average doses they are safe and effective. I tried behavior therapy without medication/supplements but was unable to really benefit from it so I added supplements to my treatment plan.
Did you have any specific questions about the difference between medication and my current treatment plan? I'll try to give more info, your question was pretty vague though, so Im not really sure what kind of info you are interested in.
Let me know!
Hmm - funny that my question sounded vague. What I was trying to get at is this: how rigorous and organized is your own alternative treatment plan and how in the world do you sustain it? Obviously supplementation is fairly easy to keep up (or at least as much so as meds), but I know I find it terribly difficult to really sustain a meditation/exercise routine.
It seems something of a catch 22 - ADD is much helped by such health routines, etc. But ADD'ers are often pretty inept at sustaining these routines.
So I am very curious how you have defined your own plan in a way that is both reasonable and sustainable. Especially, how do you stay on top of it? Do you use alot of structure (ie rigidly set days for exercise) to help you? Do you have someone who you check in with? Thanks!
I use supplements, diet, excercise, meditation/self hypnosis. I don't have a coach currently but am trying to get one. Hopefully I will find one, I really need to work on organizational skills and time management.
Obviously, the safest treatment would be behavior modification or nuerofeedback. (Youre not putting any substance into your body to alter your brain chemistry with these treatments)
Supplements can have side effects if they are not used properly or are given in too high of doses. But at average doses they are safe and effective. I tried behavior therapy without medication/supplements but was unable to really benefit from it so I added supplements to my treatment plan.
Did you have any specific questions about the difference between medication and my current treatment plan? I'll try to give more info, your question was pretty vague though, so Im not really sure what kind of info you are interested in.
Let me know!
Hmm - funny that my question sounded vague. What I was trying to get at is this: how rigorous and organized is your own alternative treatment plan and how in the world do you sustain it? Obviously supplementation is fairly easy to keep up (or at least as much so as meds), but I know I find it terribly difficult to really sustain a meditation/exercise routine.
It seems something of a catch 22 - ADD is much helped by such health routines, etc. But ADD'ers are often pretty inept at sustaining these routines.
So I am very curious how you have defined your own plan in a way that is both reasonable and sustainable. Especially, how do you stay on top of it? Do you use alot of structure (ie rigidly set days for exercise) to help you? Do you have someone who you check in with? Thanks!
* Free ~ Spirit *
03-12-2004, 04:41 AM
I have a vitamin organizer. I fill it with a weeks worth every sunday night. I dont have scheduled exercise plans. I hate routine!! Im just an active person. I have a dog so obviously I have to go walking/jogging with him daily, and I just enjoy physical activities like hiking, basketball, hockey.. its not really that difficult.
As for supplements being as easy as medication well Ive got to laugh at that. Sure after a while of taking the right supplement combo it gets easy but in the begining (first year or so) its much more difficult then just remember to pop one or two ritalin. Certain supplements have to be taken a number of hours apart from each other. Others have to be taken an hour before food. Some with food. Plus its difficult to find the right combination. If more people were knowledgable about supplements it would be easier. Unfortunantly without proper knowledge starting a supplement routine can be extremely difficult. Many people try one supplement for a month and think that since it didnt work there is no chance of supplements working so they begin medication.
The thing with supplements to, is the effects dont wear off at the end of the day like meds do. (making it harder to remember them the next day) Supplements stay in your system a lot longer. So this is why it eventually gets easier. After enough time on the right supplements that is.
I am very spontaneous and really have very little routine. Because, as I mentioned earlier I HATE routine. If I tried to force myself into a rigid routine I would end up getting bored with life and probably find something exciting to do to spice things up.
As for supplements being as easy as medication well Ive got to laugh at that. Sure after a while of taking the right supplement combo it gets easy but in the begining (first year or so) its much more difficult then just remember to pop one or two ritalin. Certain supplements have to be taken a number of hours apart from each other. Others have to be taken an hour before food. Some with food. Plus its difficult to find the right combination. If more people were knowledgable about supplements it would be easier. Unfortunantly without proper knowledge starting a supplement routine can be extremely difficult. Many people try one supplement for a month and think that since it didnt work there is no chance of supplements working so they begin medication.
The thing with supplements to, is the effects dont wear off at the end of the day like meds do. (making it harder to remember them the next day) Supplements stay in your system a lot longer. So this is why it eventually gets easier. After enough time on the right supplements that is.
I am very spontaneous and really have very little routine. Because, as I mentioned earlier I HATE routine. If I tried to force myself into a rigid routine I would end up getting bored with life and probably find something exciting to do to spice things up.