scotty12
04-05-2004, 04:53 PM
"Dosing: As in the management of pain, the effective analgesic dose of an opioid varies considerably between patients. Factors suggested to influence dose requirements include the severity of the underlying condition or extent of tissue damage, extent of prior exposure to opioids, gender, age, and other comorbidities such as anxiety or depression. For this reason, dosage titration is essential for every patient. Frequent pain assessments that are reviewed by clinicians are helpful in determining the most appropriate dose and dosing interval. In most cases, patients should receive regularly scheduled or "around-the-clock" doses for persistent pain. Many patients also experience episodic exacerbations of pain (i.e., breakthrough pain). For these patients, additional doses of analgesic are indicated to manage this episodic pain."
you brought this to my attention and i would assume my pain dr who is an anesthesiologist should know too.
i guess my dependence is clouding my judgement as to my dr's prescribing practice and my decision to stick with him.....the more i think about it the
more i have trouble understanding his hesitation to switch to a LA med.
how could he expect a patient who he knows is dealing with constant pain and is dependent on the meds to stretch 16 hours of relief into a 24 hour day.
i worry how my next visit will turn out if i lay my cards on the table but it realy has to be done.im so tired of not being able to stay asleep it is having such a negative effect on my work and family life that a change must be made..
thanks for bringing this to my attention......scott
you brought this to my attention and i would assume my pain dr who is an anesthesiologist should know too.
i guess my dependence is clouding my judgement as to my dr's prescribing practice and my decision to stick with him.....the more i think about it the
more i have trouble understanding his hesitation to switch to a LA med.
how could he expect a patient who he knows is dealing with constant pain and is dependent on the meds to stretch 16 hours of relief into a 24 hour day.
i worry how my next visit will turn out if i lay my cards on the table but it realy has to be done.im so tired of not being able to stay asleep it is having such a negative effect on my work and family life that a change must be made..
thanks for bringing this to my attention......scott
Sponsor
surgicaldisaster
04-05-2004, 05:12 PM
Hey Scott, not to butt in, but I agree with you. You kinda have to lay your cards on the table, at this point you don't have much to lose. If he refuses to budge, then maybe it's time to search for a new pm Dr. and hang on to this one till you find the "right" one. :nono: on your Dr. for not listening, I mean really listening and helping you appropriately. I hope things work out for ya, I really do...it's just not right when people are denied proper care, especially for chronic pain. It irks me to no end....take care and please let us know how it goes k? Thanks, Surg Disaster :wave:
scotty12
04-06-2004, 08:42 AM
surg,
thank for the well wishes,ill keep you posted..............be well....scott
thank for the well wishes,ill keep you posted..............be well....scott
Shoreline
04-06-2004, 09:41 AM
Hey Scott, You are absulutely right. His prescribing practices don't really make sense. Normally docs will follow the principles of their specialty, Use the guidelines of their specialty orginizations and try to follow manufacturer recomendations. By following a set standard it actually protects the doc from investigation.
Flying alone with your own theories puts him at more risk of investigation than following the principles of the AAPM or even the prescribing guidelines from a manufacturer of a particular medication.
His lone wolf aproach will make him stand out and alone and doesn't give him any back up from orginazations that he may be part of or the principles of treatment he should subscribe too. It is hard to change a docs views on opiates and I'm sure he belives he is helping but with improper dosing and setting you up to go through withdrawal ever night pretty much negates any good he may think he's doing.
Lay them out and have a back up in palace, as in an apt already made with another PM doc should he decide or your decide it's time to part ways. His method may work for some people. Ceratian conditions don't cause pain around the clock every day, some conditons kind of move from flair up to remission to flair up again. Fibro for example. A patient may have days where they function quite well, those days may last weeks or may be short lived. His method of prescibing may suite this type of patient, where they have days where minmal meds are needed and this allows them to set meds aside for when round the clock meds are needed. But your not in that population of people that probably could get buy with PRN dosing.
Maybe it's just comunication and he thinks you have days that your med needs are minimal and this allows you to save for when your med needs are higher. With constant intractable pain, you really don't have that oportunity to save meds for the bad nights.
He may believe his prescribing leaving gaps will somehow hinder dependence because the treatment isn't continuous, if that's his idea, again, he's standing alone in a ield with a big red X begging to be investigated because he isn't following anyones principles of pain management but his own.
I know a few people like that in the real world, they aren't docs, but there are folks that you just can't tell them a thing, they think they are right in everything they do and say, and arguing your position or an acurate theory is just met with his own beliefs whether they are right or wrong, he stands strongly by his own decisons.
For an example, I was at a friends house who had injured his back recently, he was prescribed Norco, another guy we knew showed up and started to tell us everythng he knew about narcan, you couldn't tell him he was talking about a different med entirely, he thought he was right, climbed up on his soap box and just spewed garbage out about his knowledge of Narcan. Not that he's ever taken opiates long term or ever needed to use Narcan or knew anyone that did. But there was no changing his mind that we were not talking about the same thing. So, me and my injured bud just let him ramble on till he felt he had convinced us that he was more knowledgable about this med than we were.
I don't mind letting someone think they know more about something than me, I just sit back and smile and let someone ramble about things totally unrelated because there is no point in wasting your breath trying to tell someone like that, that they are wrong. Just as your docs idea that SA meds last 6 hours is wrong, but is it possible to convince him otherwise?
Just because some of his patients are satisfied with the amount of short acting meds, you can't slam every square patient into a round whole and insist they respond the way his other patients respond.
So work on your back up plan and have that in place when you go and lay the cards on the table, explain how the SA medds work, wait 45 minutes, cram activity into 3 hours and then lay down until it's time to take another SA med and give it time to work so you can start the darn cycle all over.
Even if he switched you to 4 30 mg Roxicodone a day, Unless you break them in half and dose every 3-4 hours, you would run into the same problem. I don't know why docs think a larger dose lasts longer than a smaller dose, It just raises your serum level for the exact same amount of time.
Good luck and let us know how things turn out.
Was that quote from the AAPM's use of opiates statement, I'll take a look for it and if that wasn't it I'll post it for you.
Take care, Shore
Flying alone with your own theories puts him at more risk of investigation than following the principles of the AAPM or even the prescribing guidelines from a manufacturer of a particular medication.
His lone wolf aproach will make him stand out and alone and doesn't give him any back up from orginazations that he may be part of or the principles of treatment he should subscribe too. It is hard to change a docs views on opiates and I'm sure he belives he is helping but with improper dosing and setting you up to go through withdrawal ever night pretty much negates any good he may think he's doing.
Lay them out and have a back up in palace, as in an apt already made with another PM doc should he decide or your decide it's time to part ways. His method may work for some people. Ceratian conditions don't cause pain around the clock every day, some conditons kind of move from flair up to remission to flair up again. Fibro for example. A patient may have days where they function quite well, those days may last weeks or may be short lived. His method of prescibing may suite this type of patient, where they have days where minmal meds are needed and this allows them to set meds aside for when round the clock meds are needed. But your not in that population of people that probably could get buy with PRN dosing.
Maybe it's just comunication and he thinks you have days that your med needs are minimal and this allows you to save for when your med needs are higher. With constant intractable pain, you really don't have that oportunity to save meds for the bad nights.
He may believe his prescribing leaving gaps will somehow hinder dependence because the treatment isn't continuous, if that's his idea, again, he's standing alone in a ield with a big red X begging to be investigated because he isn't following anyones principles of pain management but his own.
I know a few people like that in the real world, they aren't docs, but there are folks that you just can't tell them a thing, they think they are right in everything they do and say, and arguing your position or an acurate theory is just met with his own beliefs whether they are right or wrong, he stands strongly by his own decisons.
For an example, I was at a friends house who had injured his back recently, he was prescribed Norco, another guy we knew showed up and started to tell us everythng he knew about narcan, you couldn't tell him he was talking about a different med entirely, he thought he was right, climbed up on his soap box and just spewed garbage out about his knowledge of Narcan. Not that he's ever taken opiates long term or ever needed to use Narcan or knew anyone that did. But there was no changing his mind that we were not talking about the same thing. So, me and my injured bud just let him ramble on till he felt he had convinced us that he was more knowledgable about this med than we were.
I don't mind letting someone think they know more about something than me, I just sit back and smile and let someone ramble about things totally unrelated because there is no point in wasting your breath trying to tell someone like that, that they are wrong. Just as your docs idea that SA meds last 6 hours is wrong, but is it possible to convince him otherwise?
Just because some of his patients are satisfied with the amount of short acting meds, you can't slam every square patient into a round whole and insist they respond the way his other patients respond.
So work on your back up plan and have that in place when you go and lay the cards on the table, explain how the SA medds work, wait 45 minutes, cram activity into 3 hours and then lay down until it's time to take another SA med and give it time to work so you can start the darn cycle all over.
Even if he switched you to 4 30 mg Roxicodone a day, Unless you break them in half and dose every 3-4 hours, you would run into the same problem. I don't know why docs think a larger dose lasts longer than a smaller dose, It just raises your serum level for the exact same amount of time.
Good luck and let us know how things turn out.
Was that quote from the AAPM's use of opiates statement, I'll take a look for it and if that wasn't it I'll post it for you.
Take care, Shore
scotty12
04-06-2004, 10:13 AM
thanks shore,
no i just did some searching on prescribing practice for pain management and came up with alot of stuff supporting what you said.'round the clock dosing' or "steady fixed intervals" came up alot.
if you dont mind please post that statement from AAPM for some reason i couldnt find it but im runnin on half a brain the past few days.i started splitting my am dose and i did sleep through the night last night but i woke up and took a whole pill without thinking.my muscles have been so extremely tight and i even had my wife do some stretches on me(shes a phy therapist) but its tough to take half doses in the am.
who knows,maybe my doc will understand and say no problem.he really should understand .i never felt this way until he doubled my dose which in turn created more of a dependence issue and the nightime w/d's
this will be the third time i bring it up and i hope the last.i still wouldnt mind if he changed me to 10mg 5 or 6 times a day if he wanted to avoid a la med.
...................be well................scott
no i just did some searching on prescribing practice for pain management and came up with alot of stuff supporting what you said.'round the clock dosing' or "steady fixed intervals" came up alot.
if you dont mind please post that statement from AAPM for some reason i couldnt find it but im runnin on half a brain the past few days.i started splitting my am dose and i did sleep through the night last night but i woke up and took a whole pill without thinking.my muscles have been so extremely tight and i even had my wife do some stretches on me(shes a phy therapist) but its tough to take half doses in the am.
who knows,maybe my doc will understand and say no problem.he really should understand .i never felt this way until he doubled my dose which in turn created more of a dependence issue and the nightime w/d's
this will be the third time i bring it up and i hope the last.i still wouldnt mind if he changed me to 10mg 5 or 6 times a day if he wanted to avoid a la med.
...................be well................scott
scotty12
04-06-2004, 10:13 AM
thanks shore,
no i just did some searching on prescribing practice for pain management and came up with alot of stuff supporting what you said.'round the clock dosing' or "steady fixed intervals" came up alot.
if you dont mind please post that statement from AAPM for some reason i couldnt find it but im runnin on half a brain the past few days.i started splitting my am dose and i did sleep through the night last night but i woke up and took a whole pill without thinking.my muscles have been so extremely tight and i even had my wife do some stretches on me(shes a phy therapist) but its tough to take half doses in the am.
who knows,maybe my doc will understand and say no problem.he really should understand .i never felt this way until he doubled my dose which in turn created more of a dependence issue and the nightime w/d's
this will be the third time i bring it up and i hope the last.i still wouldnt mind if he changed me to 10mg 5 or 6 times a day if he wanted to avoid a la med.
...................be well................scott
no i just did some searching on prescribing practice for pain management and came up with alot of stuff supporting what you said.'round the clock dosing' or "steady fixed intervals" came up alot.
if you dont mind please post that statement from AAPM for some reason i couldnt find it but im runnin on half a brain the past few days.i started splitting my am dose and i did sleep through the night last night but i woke up and took a whole pill without thinking.my muscles have been so extremely tight and i even had my wife do some stretches on me(shes a phy therapist) but its tough to take half doses in the am.
who knows,maybe my doc will understand and say no problem.he really should understand .i never felt this way until he doubled my dose which in turn created more of a dependence issue and the nightime w/d's
this will be the third time i bring it up and i hope the last.i still wouldnt mind if he changed me to 10mg 5 or 6 times a day if he wanted to avoid a la med.
...................be well................scott
feelbad
04-06-2004, 10:14 AM
Once again, Shore is right.some Drs know matter how many actual facts you throw at them, they will refuse to change their minds.You are really in a tuff situation, believe me, i know how you feel.But a LA med IS exactly what you need here to solve just more than one problem that you are having with the SA ones.Some might say that "hey , just be happy that your doc actually Rxes you any pain meds at all", and unfortunetly ,there are so many people out there in great pain that is definitely NOT being adressed properly by their Drs.but, your current set up is clearly not working for you and you and you are very clearly suffering,but YOU have to be the one to push it.I wonder if you didn't journal your pain for a few weeks and bring it in to him so you can show him just exactly what you are dealing with here.It could be that he just dosen't like to Rx the LA meds because of the baggage and the "evil" things that come along with it.I know that there are alot of drs out there who refuse to even consider rxing the oxycontin to anyone for anything as there has been so many negative things in the media surrounding it.Oxycontin is a wonder drug in my eyes.It has been the most effective pain med that i have ever used, for many reasons.I think that if he turns you down when asked if he would Rx it for you, i would ask him flat out, why?He at least owes you an explanation for not appropriately treating your pain.And the fact that you are right ,you would be able to counter every single reason that he could possibly not want to use this drug for you.When talking with him, kind of work the conversation around to where it feels like,at least to him, that he is the one that really decided what you needed.Do you know what I mean?If you say things like, So, what IS the best type of drug to treat my 24 hr pain that will minimize withdrawls during the night,or something like that.Or isn't there some kind of drug out there that would be able to give me a more even and total coverage for an extened time?Make him come to the conclusion himself.He strikes me as one of those I know everything type drs.no matter what you suggest, he feels the need to counter it as he dosen't want to lose that control over the decision making process.Is this making any sense here?all you need to do is work this so in the end, HE is the one who comes to the conclusion.I know, easier said than done.but it could work for you.Think of different things to say to him.I really hope that he will finally see the light here and do the best thing for you.Pain just sucks! Good luck scott, Marcia
Shoreline
04-06-2004, 10:26 AM
Hey Scotty, I'll have more time from 11-3pm " in a couple hours" to look for their position statement.
You may also find it at the partners against pain website.
Check on these if you get a chance, I'l be back to help find the position statements.
Take care, Shore
http://www.ampainsoc.org/decadeofpain/clinician/clinician1.htm
http://www.ampainsoc.org/decadeofpain/
http://www.ampainsoc.org/decadeofpain/consumer/index.htm#nih
http://www.ampainsoc.org/contents/
You may also find it at the partners against pain website.
Check on these if you get a chance, I'l be back to help find the position statements.
Take care, Shore
http://www.ampainsoc.org/decadeofpain/clinician/clinician1.htm
http://www.ampainsoc.org/decadeofpain/
http://www.ampainsoc.org/decadeofpain/consumer/index.htm#nih
http://www.ampainsoc.org/contents/
scotty12
04-06-2004, 10:28 AM
thank you shore........scott
scotty12
04-06-2004, 10:34 AM
thank you marcia,
i am just going to explain what has been going on (as i have the past couple of visits)
and ask him for a solution.
i think he is just hesitant to make a change because the issue is dependence more than pain.in my eyes they both need to be addressed. pain management is to improve the patients quality of life or ease suffering but what good is the pain relief during the day if i cant sleep every night.
take care............scott
i am just going to explain what has been going on (as i have the past couple of visits)
and ask him for a solution.
i think he is just hesitant to make a change because the issue is dependence more than pain.in my eyes they both need to be addressed. pain management is to improve the patients quality of life or ease suffering but what good is the pain relief during the day if i cant sleep every night.
take care............scott
chriztene
04-07-2004, 08:10 AM
Hey Scotty, I'll have more time from 11-3pm " in a couple hours" to look for their position statement.
You may also find it at the partners against pain website.
Check on these if you get a chance, I'l be back to help find the position statements.
Take care, Shore
http://www.ampainsoc.org/decadeofpain/clinician/clinician1.htm
http://www.ampainsoc.org/decadeofpain/
http://www.ampainsoc.org/decadeofpain/consumer/index.htm#nih
http://www.ampainsoc.org/contents/
Shore,
Thank you so much for these links. I found more information about my disease (I.C.) by doing a search on the ampainsoc site than I have found during the last year.
I asked you in a previous post about any info you have about tolerance and the benefits of switching from current la med to another? I apologize if this had been asked and answered already but am wanting to know if this is beneficial?
Again, you have a wealth of information and I learn so much from your posts. I am relatively new to chronic pain and the effects it has on one's life.
You may also find it at the partners against pain website.
Check on these if you get a chance, I'l be back to help find the position statements.
Take care, Shore
http://www.ampainsoc.org/decadeofpain/clinician/clinician1.htm
http://www.ampainsoc.org/decadeofpain/
http://www.ampainsoc.org/decadeofpain/consumer/index.htm#nih
http://www.ampainsoc.org/contents/
Shore,
Thank you so much for these links. I found more information about my disease (I.C.) by doing a search on the ampainsoc site than I have found during the last year.
I asked you in a previous post about any info you have about tolerance and the benefits of switching from current la med to another? I apologize if this had been asked and answered already but am wanting to know if this is beneficial?
Again, you have a wealth of information and I learn so much from your posts. I am relatively new to chronic pain and the effects it has on one's life.
Shoreline
04-07-2004, 01:30 PM
Hi Scott and chriztene, Sorry I haven't had a chance to look for more info yet.
As far as tolerance, There are two schools of thought.
One is Tolerance is an inevitable consequence of using certain meds, particularly opiates
The other school of thought is that the pain patient is lacking the natural ability to combat pain and once the ability is supplemented with opiates you can maintain the same level of relief for quite some time, I've experienced the latter.
There is another related theory about cross tolerance. Meaning if your tolerant to say 100mgs of morphine because you took it for a year, you would also be cross tolerant to an equal dose of any other opiate. I personally don't believe that is true. I think tolerance can be controlled by using the right med, rotating meds and avoiding meds that each patient seems to have the ability to create rapid tolerance too, and that med may be different from patient to patient.
For example, IF you start with OxyContin and your tolerance just increases and increases and you can't maintain a level of relief for even a few months, then get away from that med. Switch to an equal amount of Morphine and see if the same phenomena occurs with morphine. If it does, then switch to another med in a different class of opiates like methadone which is well known for slow tolerance and the NMDA receptor activity.
I think Oxy is more likely to induce high tolerance than other meds, partly from improper dosing, I have seen docs increase and increase trying to make OxyC last 12 hours, The dose doesn't determine how long the med lasts. If 40 mgs lasts 8 hours, than most likely 80 mgs is going to last the same amount of time. But all the hub bub about Purdue/OxyC and 12 hour dosing, many docs are following Purdues' guidelines to cover their ars and use this method of increasing in hopes of finding a dose that lasts 12 hours.
I don't agree with cross tolerance, especially if you move from one class of opiates to the next. Cross tolerance may hold true to opiates in the same family, like Hydrocodone and Oxycodone. If your tolerant to 10mgs of hydro, I doubt 7.5mgs of oxy is going to do much better. It's an equal dose of an opiate in the exact same class.
Now switching from a synthetic opiate to a drug like morphine your not just changing opiates but your changing the class of opiates and the receptors each one binds too.
Fentanyl is unique in the receptors it binds to and methadone is unique in the receptors it binds to. So cross tolerance most likely only occurs among the same family of opiates that bind to the same receptors.
Use of BT meds can effect tolerance especially if they are used daily, the same dose and the same time every day. Using BT meds this way just becomes part of your daily regimen. Say you fall and hurt yourself and suddenly have an increase in pain, the BT meds you have taken every day at the same dose and time are not going to provide the additional relief they were designed to be used for.
Just because we are allowed to use say,2-3 15mg MSIR a day as needed for BT, If you use 3 every day, month after month, It's just part of your routine and they can't provide any additional relief when you have additional pain.
This is the big controversy of BT meds. If BT meds are given, would you use them every day whether you need them or not just because they are available.
Some docs don't think we have the will power to set BT meds aside for true BT pain. If your doc gives you BT meds, he has given you the means to manage additional pain, but if it's part of your daily routine then you don't have the means to manage anything additional.
If you BT med is the same med as your base med then you just become more tolerant to that particular opiate, so using a different BT med from your base med makes sense so that you have something to use that your base med doesn't offer, Say your base med binds strongly to the mu receptor, If your BT med binds to the MU and kappa or delta, then your BT med can offer additional receptor activity that your base med doesn't.
These are just my theories and opinions, I'll look for published info on tolerance and that opiate position statement. If I can't find it today, It will be friday before I get another chance to look. I'll be at the PM clinic all day tomorrow for the pump trial.
Take care, Shore
As far as tolerance, There are two schools of thought.
One is Tolerance is an inevitable consequence of using certain meds, particularly opiates
The other school of thought is that the pain patient is lacking the natural ability to combat pain and once the ability is supplemented with opiates you can maintain the same level of relief for quite some time, I've experienced the latter.
There is another related theory about cross tolerance. Meaning if your tolerant to say 100mgs of morphine because you took it for a year, you would also be cross tolerant to an equal dose of any other opiate. I personally don't believe that is true. I think tolerance can be controlled by using the right med, rotating meds and avoiding meds that each patient seems to have the ability to create rapid tolerance too, and that med may be different from patient to patient.
For example, IF you start with OxyContin and your tolerance just increases and increases and you can't maintain a level of relief for even a few months, then get away from that med. Switch to an equal amount of Morphine and see if the same phenomena occurs with morphine. If it does, then switch to another med in a different class of opiates like methadone which is well known for slow tolerance and the NMDA receptor activity.
I think Oxy is more likely to induce high tolerance than other meds, partly from improper dosing, I have seen docs increase and increase trying to make OxyC last 12 hours, The dose doesn't determine how long the med lasts. If 40 mgs lasts 8 hours, than most likely 80 mgs is going to last the same amount of time. But all the hub bub about Purdue/OxyC and 12 hour dosing, many docs are following Purdues' guidelines to cover their ars and use this method of increasing in hopes of finding a dose that lasts 12 hours.
I don't agree with cross tolerance, especially if you move from one class of opiates to the next. Cross tolerance may hold true to opiates in the same family, like Hydrocodone and Oxycodone. If your tolerant to 10mgs of hydro, I doubt 7.5mgs of oxy is going to do much better. It's an equal dose of an opiate in the exact same class.
Now switching from a synthetic opiate to a drug like morphine your not just changing opiates but your changing the class of opiates and the receptors each one binds too.
Fentanyl is unique in the receptors it binds to and methadone is unique in the receptors it binds to. So cross tolerance most likely only occurs among the same family of opiates that bind to the same receptors.
Use of BT meds can effect tolerance especially if they are used daily, the same dose and the same time every day. Using BT meds this way just becomes part of your daily regimen. Say you fall and hurt yourself and suddenly have an increase in pain, the BT meds you have taken every day at the same dose and time are not going to provide the additional relief they were designed to be used for.
Just because we are allowed to use say,2-3 15mg MSIR a day as needed for BT, If you use 3 every day, month after month, It's just part of your routine and they can't provide any additional relief when you have additional pain.
This is the big controversy of BT meds. If BT meds are given, would you use them every day whether you need them or not just because they are available.
Some docs don't think we have the will power to set BT meds aside for true BT pain. If your doc gives you BT meds, he has given you the means to manage additional pain, but if it's part of your daily routine then you don't have the means to manage anything additional.
If you BT med is the same med as your base med then you just become more tolerant to that particular opiate, so using a different BT med from your base med makes sense so that you have something to use that your base med doesn't offer, Say your base med binds strongly to the mu receptor, If your BT med binds to the MU and kappa or delta, then your BT med can offer additional receptor activity that your base med doesn't.
These are just my theories and opinions, I'll look for published info on tolerance and that opiate position statement. If I can't find it today, It will be friday before I get another chance to look. I'll be at the PM clinic all day tomorrow for the pump trial.
Take care, Shore
Shoreline
04-07-2004, 02:13 PM
The Use of Opioids
for the Treatment of Chronic Pain:
A consensus statement from American Academy of Pain Medicine and American Pain Society
http://www.ampainsoc.org/advocacy/opioids.htm
Dr Brookoffs article
http://www.hosppract.com/issues/2000/09/brook.htm
Chronic Pain: 2. The Case for Opioids
DANIEL BROOKOFF
University of Tennessee
Methodist Hospitals of Memphis
Initiation of Opioid Therapy
In the United States, up to 90% of the prescriptions written for opioids are for noncancer pain. The efficacy and safety of these drugs in treating chronic pain syndromes has been demonstrated many times over. Most patients with chronic pain of moderate or greater severity who have not gotten good relief with disease-specific treatments or nonopioid analgesics should at least have a trial of an opioid medication, no matter what the cause of the pain. One of the most important ground rules for such a trial, as well as for subsequent treatment, is that a single physician must take full responsibility for establishing the protocol and writing all prescriptions.
Opiate-naive patients are usually started with a short half-life drug (e.g., hydrocodone, hydromorphone, oxycodone, codeine, or morphine). Because of their rapid clearance, these drugs must be taken every three to four hours. For severe pain, the usual starting dose is 10 to 15 mg of hydrocodone or oxycodone, 2 to 4 mg of hydromorphone, 30 to 60 mg of codeine, or 15 to 30 mg of morphine.
The common strategy in treating chronic pain with opioid analgesics is to rely on "as-needed" intermittent dosing, but that does not usually provide sufficient coverage. As a result, the patient is subjected to periods of anxiety and pain that are not only unnecessary but also contribute to the patient's distrust of the physician's instructions.
Posttrial Therapy: Sustained-Release Opioids
For patients with continuous pain who respond well to opioids, long-acting sustained-release agents are indicated. They can be started once a good response to a short half-life opioid has been obtained and any side effects have been managed. The initial daily dose should be roughly equivalent to the average daily amount of short-acting opioid that provided relief.
Oxycodone is available in an eight- to 12-hr formulation, morphine in both eight- to 12- and 24-hr formulations, and fentanyl in a 72-hr controlled-release skin patch. Hydromorphone formulations allowing once-a-day dosing are expected to be on the market by next year, and several other sustained-release opioids are in various stages of testing.
These drugs have many important advantages over their short half-life counterparts. Because serum levels remain steady, miniwithdrawals or rebound reactions do not occur, as they sometimes do with long-term use of short-acting opioids. Sleep patterns are also more normal; with careful titration, the intermittent sedation that occurs with high-peaking, short-acting drugs is largely avoided.
Furthermore, because dosing is more convenient, compliance increases. By reducing the number of daily pills and eliminating fluctuations in serum levels, sustained-release opioids may help patients to shift their focus away from somatic concerns. Several studies have shown that patients using sustained-release opioids for pain are more satisfied with outcomes and have a measurably higher quality of life.
These drugs also provide less reinforcement of inappropriate use. Because they are more difficult to convert into injectable forms, they have a lower potential for diversion and a lower street price than short-acting opioids. The vast majority of prescription opioid abuse or drug diversion cases investigated by the Drug Enforcement Administration, state medical boards, and other regulatory or law enforcement agencies involve short-acting opioids--sustained-release opioids are rarely a problem. A recent study by D.E. Joranson and colleagues showed that with increased use of sustained-release opioids, medical emergencies related to abuse of prescription opioids have decreased.
Drug Selection
A careful review of the patient's medical history is the first essential in choosing a medication. Patients with chronic pain can often tell what has worked in the past and what has not. In one study of cancer patients using opioid analgesics, 44% required trials of two or more opioids, and 20% required three or more, before achieving satisfactory pain relief without intolerable side effects. As in selecting any drug, both adverse and beneficial effects must be evaluated in the context of the individual patient's current physical condition.
Morphine. Of the sustained-release opioids, morphine is considered by many to be the gold standard, probably because it was the first sustained-release drug that allowed adequate dosing. The designation is more historic than clinically significant, however. In comparison to other opioids, morphine generally causes more nausea and pruritus. It also has the disadvantage of being relatively hydrophilic, which delays its transport across the blood-brain barrier. In addition, morphine has several active metabolites whose levels can vary with renal or hepatic function. The drug apparently induces its own metabolism, which makes it difficult to maintain a steady serum level.
Fentanyl. Because of these problems, fentanyl, a derivative of meperidine, was specifically designed to substitute for morphine in operative anesthesia. It is lipophilic and therefore faster acting. Of greater import, however, is that its potency is hundreds of times greater than morphine's. Microgram amounts, administered by a transdermal patch, can provide pain relief for up to 72 hours. Because fentanyl does not traverse the gastrointestinal tract, it causes less constipation than other sustained-release opioids and does not induce liver metabolism through first-pass effects. It also does not appear to have active metabolites.
Oxycodone is sometimes thought of as a weak opioid, probably because it has been formulated in low-dose pills. Like fentanyl, however, it is more potent than morphine and is associated with fewer adverse effects. A sustained-release formulation, introduced about five years ago, has quickly become the most popular opioid for treatment of chronic noncancer pain in the United States.
Oxycodone is actually a prodrug. The active metabolite, oxymorphone, is produced in the liver by the enzymatic activity of cytochrome P450 2D6. (This is the same enzyme responsible for activating two other prodrugs, hydrocodone and codeine). Approximately 10% of the population have genetically low levels of P450 2D6 and thus require higher than usual doses of the prodrug to obtain pain relief. Less than optimal effects may also be expected in patients taking neuroleptics, quinine, or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors such as fluoxetine that inhibit P450 2D6 activity.
There have been sporadic reports of agitation, sleeplessness, and dysphoria in patients taking high doses of oxycodone, which suggests that, in addition to µ-opioid effects, the drug also has kappa-opioid effects. It may thus have some added advantage for treatment of visceral pain, which appears to respond to kappa-receptor agonists.
Hydromorphone. The clinical trials of sustained-release hydromorphone indicate that it has analgesic effects similar to those of morphine but that it has fewer side effects. None of hydromorphone's metabolites are pharmacologically active, which will make this drug particularly useful for patients with renal failure.
Methadone and Levorphanol. By virtue of their intrinsically long half-lives, methadone and levorphanol are also useful for treatment of chronic pain. Both have significant nonopioid effects that may contribute to their utility as pain relievers, especially for neuropathic pain. Methadone appears to be a potent N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA)-receptor blocker. Levorphanol also has some NMDA inhibitory effect and may, in addition, inhibit reuptake of serotonin and noradrenaline.
These drugs are generally reserved for second-line treatment, however, because they are difficult to titrate and have delayed-onset side effects. To control pain effectively, methadone must be administered at intervals (6-8 hr) shorter than its metabolic half-life (15-90 hr). As serum levels of the drug increase, so does the risk of toxicity, primarily sedation.
Many U.S. physicians are under the impression that it is illegal to prescribe methadone without a license from the federal government, but that is the case only if methadone is used in a maintenance program for treatment of drug addiction. When prescribed for pain, methadone is subject to the same regulations as other high-potency opioid medications. One practical advantage of methadone and levorphanol is that they are both relatively inexpensive.
Rescue Medication. Most patients taking long-acting opioids should be supplied with a fast-acting rescue opioid to treat pain that breaks through the regular medication schedule. Oral rescue agents may be needed as often as every two to four hours. The usual dose is the analgesic equivalent of 5% to 15% of the 24-hour baseline dose of the long-acting opioid (Table 1).
for the Treatment of Chronic Pain:
A consensus statement from American Academy of Pain Medicine and American Pain Society
http://www.ampainsoc.org/advocacy/opioids.htm
Dr Brookoffs article
http://www.hosppract.com/issues/2000/09/brook.htm
Chronic Pain: 2. The Case for Opioids
DANIEL BROOKOFF
University of Tennessee
Methodist Hospitals of Memphis
Initiation of Opioid Therapy
In the United States, up to 90% of the prescriptions written for opioids are for noncancer pain. The efficacy and safety of these drugs in treating chronic pain syndromes has been demonstrated many times over. Most patients with chronic pain of moderate or greater severity who have not gotten good relief with disease-specific treatments or nonopioid analgesics should at least have a trial of an opioid medication, no matter what the cause of the pain. One of the most important ground rules for such a trial, as well as for subsequent treatment, is that a single physician must take full responsibility for establishing the protocol and writing all prescriptions.
Opiate-naive patients are usually started with a short half-life drug (e.g., hydrocodone, hydromorphone, oxycodone, codeine, or morphine). Because of their rapid clearance, these drugs must be taken every three to four hours. For severe pain, the usual starting dose is 10 to 15 mg of hydrocodone or oxycodone, 2 to 4 mg of hydromorphone, 30 to 60 mg of codeine, or 15 to 30 mg of morphine.
The common strategy in treating chronic pain with opioid analgesics is to rely on "as-needed" intermittent dosing, but that does not usually provide sufficient coverage. As a result, the patient is subjected to periods of anxiety and pain that are not only unnecessary but also contribute to the patient's distrust of the physician's instructions.
Posttrial Therapy: Sustained-Release Opioids
For patients with continuous pain who respond well to opioids, long-acting sustained-release agents are indicated. They can be started once a good response to a short half-life opioid has been obtained and any side effects have been managed. The initial daily dose should be roughly equivalent to the average daily amount of short-acting opioid that provided relief.
Oxycodone is available in an eight- to 12-hr formulation, morphine in both eight- to 12- and 24-hr formulations, and fentanyl in a 72-hr controlled-release skin patch. Hydromorphone formulations allowing once-a-day dosing are expected to be on the market by next year, and several other sustained-release opioids are in various stages of testing.
These drugs have many important advantages over their short half-life counterparts. Because serum levels remain steady, miniwithdrawals or rebound reactions do not occur, as they sometimes do with long-term use of short-acting opioids. Sleep patterns are also more normal; with careful titration, the intermittent sedation that occurs with high-peaking, short-acting drugs is largely avoided.
Furthermore, because dosing is more convenient, compliance increases. By reducing the number of daily pills and eliminating fluctuations in serum levels, sustained-release opioids may help patients to shift their focus away from somatic concerns. Several studies have shown that patients using sustained-release opioids for pain are more satisfied with outcomes and have a measurably higher quality of life.
These drugs also provide less reinforcement of inappropriate use. Because they are more difficult to convert into injectable forms, they have a lower potential for diversion and a lower street price than short-acting opioids. The vast majority of prescription opioid abuse or drug diversion cases investigated by the Drug Enforcement Administration, state medical boards, and other regulatory or law enforcement agencies involve short-acting opioids--sustained-release opioids are rarely a problem. A recent study by D.E. Joranson and colleagues showed that with increased use of sustained-release opioids, medical emergencies related to abuse of prescription opioids have decreased.
Drug Selection
A careful review of the patient's medical history is the first essential in choosing a medication. Patients with chronic pain can often tell what has worked in the past and what has not. In one study of cancer patients using opioid analgesics, 44% required trials of two or more opioids, and 20% required three or more, before achieving satisfactory pain relief without intolerable side effects. As in selecting any drug, both adverse and beneficial effects must be evaluated in the context of the individual patient's current physical condition.
Morphine. Of the sustained-release opioids, morphine is considered by many to be the gold standard, probably because it was the first sustained-release drug that allowed adequate dosing. The designation is more historic than clinically significant, however. In comparison to other opioids, morphine generally causes more nausea and pruritus. It also has the disadvantage of being relatively hydrophilic, which delays its transport across the blood-brain barrier. In addition, morphine has several active metabolites whose levels can vary with renal or hepatic function. The drug apparently induces its own metabolism, which makes it difficult to maintain a steady serum level.
Fentanyl. Because of these problems, fentanyl, a derivative of meperidine, was specifically designed to substitute for morphine in operative anesthesia. It is lipophilic and therefore faster acting. Of greater import, however, is that its potency is hundreds of times greater than morphine's. Microgram amounts, administered by a transdermal patch, can provide pain relief for up to 72 hours. Because fentanyl does not traverse the gastrointestinal tract, it causes less constipation than other sustained-release opioids and does not induce liver metabolism through first-pass effects. It also does not appear to have active metabolites.
Oxycodone is sometimes thought of as a weak opioid, probably because it has been formulated in low-dose pills. Like fentanyl, however, it is more potent than morphine and is associated with fewer adverse effects. A sustained-release formulation, introduced about five years ago, has quickly become the most popular opioid for treatment of chronic noncancer pain in the United States.
Oxycodone is actually a prodrug. The active metabolite, oxymorphone, is produced in the liver by the enzymatic activity of cytochrome P450 2D6. (This is the same enzyme responsible for activating two other prodrugs, hydrocodone and codeine). Approximately 10% of the population have genetically low levels of P450 2D6 and thus require higher than usual doses of the prodrug to obtain pain relief. Less than optimal effects may also be expected in patients taking neuroleptics, quinine, or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors such as fluoxetine that inhibit P450 2D6 activity.
There have been sporadic reports of agitation, sleeplessness, and dysphoria in patients taking high doses of oxycodone, which suggests that, in addition to µ-opioid effects, the drug also has kappa-opioid effects. It may thus have some added advantage for treatment of visceral pain, which appears to respond to kappa-receptor agonists.
Hydromorphone. The clinical trials of sustained-release hydromorphone indicate that it has analgesic effects similar to those of morphine but that it has fewer side effects. None of hydromorphone's metabolites are pharmacologically active, which will make this drug particularly useful for patients with renal failure.
Methadone and Levorphanol. By virtue of their intrinsically long half-lives, methadone and levorphanol are also useful for treatment of chronic pain. Both have significant nonopioid effects that may contribute to their utility as pain relievers, especially for neuropathic pain. Methadone appears to be a potent N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA)-receptor blocker. Levorphanol also has some NMDA inhibitory effect and may, in addition, inhibit reuptake of serotonin and noradrenaline.
These drugs are generally reserved for second-line treatment, however, because they are difficult to titrate and have delayed-onset side effects. To control pain effectively, methadone must be administered at intervals (6-8 hr) shorter than its metabolic half-life (15-90 hr). As serum levels of the drug increase, so does the risk of toxicity, primarily sedation.
Many U.S. physicians are under the impression that it is illegal to prescribe methadone without a license from the federal government, but that is the case only if methadone is used in a maintenance program for treatment of drug addiction. When prescribed for pain, methadone is subject to the same regulations as other high-potency opioid medications. One practical advantage of methadone and levorphanol is that they are both relatively inexpensive.
Rescue Medication. Most patients taking long-acting opioids should be supplied with a fast-acting rescue opioid to treat pain that breaks through the regular medication schedule. Oral rescue agents may be needed as often as every two to four hours. The usual dose is the analgesic equivalent of 5% to 15% of the 24-hour baseline dose of the long-acting opioid (Table 1).
scotty12
04-07-2004, 03:22 PM
thank you much shore and good luck tomorrow
scott
scott
chriztene
04-08-2004, 09:05 AM
Shore,
Thank you so much for taking the time to post this information regarding tolerance issues. Since reading your post, I learned if your la med and bt med are the same, this could effect tolerance. I am on the same med and will keep this info in the event I develope a tolerance problem in the future. Thus far, I have only been titrated up once in a year. Your posts help educate us cper's so much and knowledge is power. I wish you the best today and hope the pump works excellent for you. Please let us know how today went.
:angel:
Thank you so much for taking the time to post this information regarding tolerance issues. Since reading your post, I learned if your la med and bt med are the same, this could effect tolerance. I am on the same med and will keep this info in the event I develope a tolerance problem in the future. Thus far, I have only been titrated up once in a year. Your posts help educate us cper's so much and knowledge is power. I wish you the best today and hope the pump works excellent for you. Please let us know how today went.
:angel:

