Amazon1
04-08-2004, 02:10 PM
Hi, I was wondering if anyone else here was currently in Pain Management (PM) for their TMJ? I have been taking Vicopropfen (7.5/200mg) for about 8-months now which was prescribed by my GP and allowed up to 8-a day which I most always need as my TMJ pain is quite severe! I have seen several dentists and one TMJ Specialist who said he could not treat me until I got my pain under control and recently, at the request of my Insurance company, my GP refered me into PM. (Also, I feel he might no longer feel comfortable prescribing my medication)
Today was my first PM apt and after filling out all the forms and talking to the doctors aide (I never even got to see the doctor!), she said that the amount of Vicopropfen I had been taking was too high and was equal to what a cancer patient might be taking and that she didn't think I could continue...then she said they would not even take me a patient until I had an MRI to "prove" that my TMJ pain was valid! Even though I had all my documentation and xrays from a previous apt with a TMJ dentist! The doctor even refused to refill my empty bottle of Vicopropfen after my GP had said to take it with me and that they would take care care of me! When I became distressed about this and asked what I was to do (I didn't want to be in pain NOR go through WDs!!)...she said I could go to the detox center at the hospital for more advice! ( how uncaring and insensitive!!!)
Needless to say, I was very surprised at such treatment but agreed to have the MRI done, took a urine test and told them that I would just call my GP for my usual refill, which I did when I got home and they said that was fine and they would continue until I had the MRI and we would take it from there.
What I am wondering is for those who are in PM due to their TMJ pain, is this standard treatment for a first apt? What kind of pain meds do they usually prescribe for this sort of pain and should I seek out another PM facility if they are not willing to give me something equal to the pain relief I am accustomed to? Any info or advice would be appreciated!
Thanks!
Amazon1
Today was my first PM apt and after filling out all the forms and talking to the doctors aide (I never even got to see the doctor!), she said that the amount of Vicopropfen I had been taking was too high and was equal to what a cancer patient might be taking and that she didn't think I could continue...then she said they would not even take me a patient until I had an MRI to "prove" that my TMJ pain was valid! Even though I had all my documentation and xrays from a previous apt with a TMJ dentist! The doctor even refused to refill my empty bottle of Vicopropfen after my GP had said to take it with me and that they would take care care of me! When I became distressed about this and asked what I was to do (I didn't want to be in pain NOR go through WDs!!)...she said I could go to the detox center at the hospital for more advice! ( how uncaring and insensitive!!!)
Needless to say, I was very surprised at such treatment but agreed to have the MRI done, took a urine test and told them that I would just call my GP for my usual refill, which I did when I got home and they said that was fine and they would continue until I had the MRI and we would take it from there.
What I am wondering is for those who are in PM due to their TMJ pain, is this standard treatment for a first apt? What kind of pain meds do they usually prescribe for this sort of pain and should I seek out another PM facility if they are not willing to give me something equal to the pain relief I am accustomed to? Any info or advice would be appreciated!
Thanks!
Amazon1
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delilah1963
04-08-2004, 02:55 PM
Hi, I have gone into PM. My med intake was rather minimal tho...Vioxx, Soma at night and Darvocet for breakthrough pain. I also have some bulging discs in my cervical spine and have had neck pain off and on for years.
I have a wonderful PM doc. He suggested some blocks and epidurals, of which I had two (ESI, facet joint injections, and Occipital Nerve Block)...the first didn't do much, but the 2nd helped me a lot and I was 90+% pain free, but only for about a month. But what a month!!! I feel it creeping back in and now am taking Vioxx, Valium and Darvocet. Going into massage therapy soon. Still can't find a good TMJ spec.
My guess, and you can clarify this on the PM board, is that you need to find another PM doc. Mine, though admittedly not TMJ edcuated, has assured me he will keep me out of debilitating pain using as many modalities, not just meds, but PT, MT, injections, infusions. I love him for that.
You need to jump over to the PM board and ask Shoreline about his wife and what has worked for her. She has TMJ and has had a few things that have worked, including the occipital nerve blocks and robaxin (sp.?) infusions...
Shoreline is going in tomorrow for a procedure, but I'm sure he would be willing to offer up some advice. If you do a search on that board with the words "Shoreline" and "TMJ" I think you'll be able to find his past posts.
Regards and best,
Del.
I have a wonderful PM doc. He suggested some blocks and epidurals, of which I had two (ESI, facet joint injections, and Occipital Nerve Block)...the first didn't do much, but the 2nd helped me a lot and I was 90+% pain free, but only for about a month. But what a month!!! I feel it creeping back in and now am taking Vioxx, Valium and Darvocet. Going into massage therapy soon. Still can't find a good TMJ spec.
My guess, and you can clarify this on the PM board, is that you need to find another PM doc. Mine, though admittedly not TMJ edcuated, has assured me he will keep me out of debilitating pain using as many modalities, not just meds, but PT, MT, injections, infusions. I love him for that.
You need to jump over to the PM board and ask Shoreline about his wife and what has worked for her. She has TMJ and has had a few things that have worked, including the occipital nerve blocks and robaxin (sp.?) infusions...
Shoreline is going in tomorrow for a procedure, but I'm sure he would be willing to offer up some advice. If you do a search on that board with the words "Shoreline" and "TMJ" I think you'll be able to find his past posts.
Regards and best,
Del.
TiffanyAnn
04-08-2004, 10:09 PM
Hi Amazon:
I'm so sorry to hear how badly they treated you. I refused to go into pain mamagement for the very reasons you mentioned in your post. It seems they always treat people as if they are drug addicts using them as a pharmacy. It seems so many have become hardened to people's pain and see us all as drug addicts. You might be wise to begin slowly cutting down your pain meds so that you don't find yourself in detox. If you wean yourself down and supplement the ones you do take with something else (I use Excedrin PM to supplement when my meds aren't enough). Of course they don't work nearly as well as the pain meds do but I do what I have to do to get by. I don't want to end up at the mercy of some jerk like the one who treated you so badly today. I realize you are in alot of pain so don't take me wrong. I'm just trying to give you ideas to stretch your pain meds until you get this whole situation figured out. I feel so badly for you that they said you have to get an MRI to prove you have TMJ. Good lord, why would you say you did and why would ANYONE in their right mind put up with being treated they way they treated you if they weren't truly in great pain. Your GP sounds like a really nice person. My internist perscribes my pain meds too. I've been seeing him for a long time now and we have developed some trust between us. As long as I don't abuse the pain meds he continues to give them to me. I appreciate it so very much. I wish you the best of luck and keep us updated on what happens ok.
Hugs,
Tiffany
I'm so sorry to hear how badly they treated you. I refused to go into pain mamagement for the very reasons you mentioned in your post. It seems they always treat people as if they are drug addicts using them as a pharmacy. It seems so many have become hardened to people's pain and see us all as drug addicts. You might be wise to begin slowly cutting down your pain meds so that you don't find yourself in detox. If you wean yourself down and supplement the ones you do take with something else (I use Excedrin PM to supplement when my meds aren't enough). Of course they don't work nearly as well as the pain meds do but I do what I have to do to get by. I don't want to end up at the mercy of some jerk like the one who treated you so badly today. I realize you are in alot of pain so don't take me wrong. I'm just trying to give you ideas to stretch your pain meds until you get this whole situation figured out. I feel so badly for you that they said you have to get an MRI to prove you have TMJ. Good lord, why would you say you did and why would ANYONE in their right mind put up with being treated they way they treated you if they weren't truly in great pain. Your GP sounds like a really nice person. My internist perscribes my pain meds too. I've been seeing him for a long time now and we have developed some trust between us. As long as I don't abuse the pain meds he continues to give them to me. I appreciate it so very much. I wish you the best of luck and keep us updated on what happens ok.
Hugs,
Tiffany
Kaylbe
04-09-2004, 01:23 AM
Sadly, this seems to be the mode of operation for certain PM specialists. Most patients are forced to endure several months of "everything else", ie. injections, blocks, PT, etc., before any real efforts are put into treatment with medications. I can only think this may be their way of weeding out drug seekers. How cruel for the majority, I'm sure, who are truly in a desperate amount of pain. --Kaylbe
Amazon1
04-09-2004, 04:55 AM
Thanks everyone for your replies! :)
Delilah, I wish I could get by on the minimal amout of pain meds you take! I did start out taking Vicoden (1 every 4-6 hours as needed), but after several months I asked my TMJ dentist to switch me over to Vicopropfen as I had researched and read that it was easier on the liver and contained Ibupropfen, which I needed anyway for inflamation. Eventually I built up a tolerance and have needed to take 2 instead of 1 and they wear off after 4-hours although I try to hold off for the full 6 in order to stay within the boundaries of what is safe for my liver...I am not allowed to exceed more than 8 within a 24 hour period.
I have tried the Vioxx and unfortunately it never did a thing for me...I have also tried Flexeril, Toridol, Topamax, Neurontin, Ultram...the list goes on...nothing seemed to work as good as the Vicopropfen and a few of those I had bad reactions to and refuse to ever take them again! (The Neurontin especially!)
I was having regular and Trigger point massage once a week which seemed to help some, but have had to stop for awhile as money is tight right now and I was paying for it out of pocket. I am willing to try just about anything (except surgery) to treat my TMJ, but I have to have my pain treated as well or it just won't work! As I read in someone elses post here, maybe it will take several good, caring doctors working together to help me get this TMJ pain under control. I will give this new PM doctor a chance (if I ever even get to see him and NOT his aide!!), but if I don't receive any better treatment than I did today after they get the MRI results back confirming my problem, I will be seeking out another PM clinic! TC!
TiffanyAnn, I had heard alot of good things about PM and how it had helped several "cyber friends" I have, despite some of the things I have read about it on the internet...so I thought it was really the way to go...until today, that is! :rolleyes: It is my Insurance company however, that is pushing me into it, and they told my GP that eventually they will refuse to pay for my pain meds unless I give it a try! My GP is a very caring and kind doctor though and I was assured when I went in upset today that he would still continue to treat my pain and not to worry so much and to just try to take it one step at a time...the ordered MRI being step one. The same thought had occured to me as what you posted...to try to wean myself down to a more "acceptable" dosage before I find myself being "forced" into it! As unpleasant as this sounds to me, you have made a good point and I will have to give it a try...I have never had much luck nor willpower at doing this so please keep me in your thoughts! Thanks and TC!
Kaylbe, I am hoping that after I have the MRI and my pain is proven to be real enough, that the PM specialist will decide to continue my current pain treatment while offering me other options to try along with it to decrease my pain levels...and amount of pain meds needed! But it would be comforting to know that if I cannot succeed, that they will continue to at least treat the pain! My TMJ was "dormant" for almost 20 years before resurfacing after a severe dental proceedure...maybe, in time, it will go "dormant" again? One can only wish!
Thanks again and sorry for the novel! :yawn: I'll keep you all posted and I wish you all lots of luck as well with your TMJ!
:wave:
Amazon1
Delilah, I wish I could get by on the minimal amout of pain meds you take! I did start out taking Vicoden (1 every 4-6 hours as needed), but after several months I asked my TMJ dentist to switch me over to Vicopropfen as I had researched and read that it was easier on the liver and contained Ibupropfen, which I needed anyway for inflamation. Eventually I built up a tolerance and have needed to take 2 instead of 1 and they wear off after 4-hours although I try to hold off for the full 6 in order to stay within the boundaries of what is safe for my liver...I am not allowed to exceed more than 8 within a 24 hour period.
I have tried the Vioxx and unfortunately it never did a thing for me...I have also tried Flexeril, Toridol, Topamax, Neurontin, Ultram...the list goes on...nothing seemed to work as good as the Vicopropfen and a few of those I had bad reactions to and refuse to ever take them again! (The Neurontin especially!)
I was having regular and Trigger point massage once a week which seemed to help some, but have had to stop for awhile as money is tight right now and I was paying for it out of pocket. I am willing to try just about anything (except surgery) to treat my TMJ, but I have to have my pain treated as well or it just won't work! As I read in someone elses post here, maybe it will take several good, caring doctors working together to help me get this TMJ pain under control. I will give this new PM doctor a chance (if I ever even get to see him and NOT his aide!!), but if I don't receive any better treatment than I did today after they get the MRI results back confirming my problem, I will be seeking out another PM clinic! TC!
TiffanyAnn, I had heard alot of good things about PM and how it had helped several "cyber friends" I have, despite some of the things I have read about it on the internet...so I thought it was really the way to go...until today, that is! :rolleyes: It is my Insurance company however, that is pushing me into it, and they told my GP that eventually they will refuse to pay for my pain meds unless I give it a try! My GP is a very caring and kind doctor though and I was assured when I went in upset today that he would still continue to treat my pain and not to worry so much and to just try to take it one step at a time...the ordered MRI being step one. The same thought had occured to me as what you posted...to try to wean myself down to a more "acceptable" dosage before I find myself being "forced" into it! As unpleasant as this sounds to me, you have made a good point and I will have to give it a try...I have never had much luck nor willpower at doing this so please keep me in your thoughts! Thanks and TC!
Kaylbe, I am hoping that after I have the MRI and my pain is proven to be real enough, that the PM specialist will decide to continue my current pain treatment while offering me other options to try along with it to decrease my pain levels...and amount of pain meds needed! But it would be comforting to know that if I cannot succeed, that they will continue to at least treat the pain! My TMJ was "dormant" for almost 20 years before resurfacing after a severe dental proceedure...maybe, in time, it will go "dormant" again? One can only wish!
Thanks again and sorry for the novel! :yawn: I'll keep you all posted and I wish you all lots of luck as well with your TMJ!
:wave:
Amazon1
westin4
04-09-2004, 11:46 AM
Amazon,
I have been wondering all this week about pain meds. After dealing with severe pain and muscle spasms for about 6 weeks and not being given a thing for them, I finally went to my regular dr and she gave me muscle relaxers and pain meds. I ended up switching dentists to try and find someone who REALLY knew about tmj. The new one I am going to has put me on Norco ( which is like a vicodin ) for 3 weeks and that combined with the muscle relaxers he gave me and the new splint, my symptoms are pretty much under control. This is what scares me though, I am so afraid when my meds are gone if the pain returns, will anyone refill them???? Why do we have to worry about this. I know there are people out there who just want the meds, but good grief, after all the treatment we all go through, all the $$$$$$$$$ spent, all the time it takes just for the visits, exams, seems like it would dawn on them that our pain is real! My dentist now knows my pain is real, I am just afraid he won't want me to use meds long term. When I went to him I was taking 4 Toradol, 8 ibuprofen, 4 skelaxins, and my reg meds of xanax and trazadone. He about went through the roof that I was taking that many pills and nobody bothered just to put me on a Narcotic to get rid of the pain, he said that was far less dangerous than the # of pills I was ingesting and still having no relief. I hate what has happened to you and wonder why we get treated like this. My last dentist smirked at me when I told her I HAD to have something, anything for the pain I was in ( I was in her office and couldn't even open my mouth on the left side at the time) she said and I quote "you show me where someone else will write you a script for pain medication for this and then I'll think about it" !!!!!! Pffffffffff, I never went back. I was so humiliated on top of being in severe pain and having muscle spasms so bad I thought I would pass out. Anyway, the point of all my rambling was to let you know I feel for you how you were treated and can feel the emotions that you felt that day being treated like you are just a junkie instead of someone who is sick and needs help! I mean the drug companies make these meds, so who in turn do the dr's think they are made for????????? HELLO, they are made for people in severe pain!!!!!!!!!! I only take 1 and half Norcos a day, he had prescribed 1 every 4-6 hours, but I take a half at a time, I know how you can build up a tolerance to these kinds of meds and I am afraid of them. I hope you can cut down on the amount you need but still maintain a dose that helps your pain.
Karen
I have been wondering all this week about pain meds. After dealing with severe pain and muscle spasms for about 6 weeks and not being given a thing for them, I finally went to my regular dr and she gave me muscle relaxers and pain meds. I ended up switching dentists to try and find someone who REALLY knew about tmj. The new one I am going to has put me on Norco ( which is like a vicodin ) for 3 weeks and that combined with the muscle relaxers he gave me and the new splint, my symptoms are pretty much under control. This is what scares me though, I am so afraid when my meds are gone if the pain returns, will anyone refill them???? Why do we have to worry about this. I know there are people out there who just want the meds, but good grief, after all the treatment we all go through, all the $$$$$$$$$ spent, all the time it takes just for the visits, exams, seems like it would dawn on them that our pain is real! My dentist now knows my pain is real, I am just afraid he won't want me to use meds long term. When I went to him I was taking 4 Toradol, 8 ibuprofen, 4 skelaxins, and my reg meds of xanax and trazadone. He about went through the roof that I was taking that many pills and nobody bothered just to put me on a Narcotic to get rid of the pain, he said that was far less dangerous than the # of pills I was ingesting and still having no relief. I hate what has happened to you and wonder why we get treated like this. My last dentist smirked at me when I told her I HAD to have something, anything for the pain I was in ( I was in her office and couldn't even open my mouth on the left side at the time) she said and I quote "you show me where someone else will write you a script for pain medication for this and then I'll think about it" !!!!!! Pffffffffff, I never went back. I was so humiliated on top of being in severe pain and having muscle spasms so bad I thought I would pass out. Anyway, the point of all my rambling was to let you know I feel for you how you were treated and can feel the emotions that you felt that day being treated like you are just a junkie instead of someone who is sick and needs help! I mean the drug companies make these meds, so who in turn do the dr's think they are made for????????? HELLO, they are made for people in severe pain!!!!!!!!!! I only take 1 and half Norcos a day, he had prescribed 1 every 4-6 hours, but I take a half at a time, I know how you can build up a tolerance to these kinds of meds and I am afraid of them. I hope you can cut down on the amount you need but still maintain a dose that helps your pain.
Karen
Amazon1
04-09-2004, 01:12 PM
Thanks Karen! :) I am glad you are getting the pain medication you need and deserve to function with some quality! "Norco" is very similiar to the Vicopropfen that I take, but with less of the "fillers" in it that can cause liver damage with long term use...I have asked about being switched to it, but at this point no one will even consider it...I guess I'll have to go into complete liver failure before they will pay any attention to me! :rolleyes:
Unfortunately, most dentists will only prescribe pain meds for short term use, but you may have gotten lucky and found a caring, sensitive one that will...I hope this is the case! Just be careful though, as it seems with this sort of drug the body builds up tolerance faster than with wny other! I only say this because I have taken Xanax now for over 13-years and have only had to have it adjusted once in that long period of time...I had to have the Vicopropfen adjusted after only 4 months and went from taking one pill to taking two at a time! I would like to cut back to taking 6-a day instead of the 8 I am used to...it will take awhile, but I am going to give it a shot!
Doctors can be so uncaring and insensitive, especially when it concerns any sort of pain and that is unfortuantely when we are the most vulnerable! Good luck to you and please keep me posted how your doing! :)
Amazon1
Unfortunately, most dentists will only prescribe pain meds for short term use, but you may have gotten lucky and found a caring, sensitive one that will...I hope this is the case! Just be careful though, as it seems with this sort of drug the body builds up tolerance faster than with wny other! I only say this because I have taken Xanax now for over 13-years and have only had to have it adjusted once in that long period of time...I had to have the Vicopropfen adjusted after only 4 months and went from taking one pill to taking two at a time! I would like to cut back to taking 6-a day instead of the 8 I am used to...it will take awhile, but I am going to give it a shot!
Doctors can be so uncaring and insensitive, especially when it concerns any sort of pain and that is unfortuantely when we are the most vulnerable! Good luck to you and please keep me posted how your doing! :)
Amazon1
westin4
04-10-2004, 12:27 AM
Amazon.......
I also take Xanax and have taken it for about 10 years now. I have panic/anxiety disorder and what gets me is that I have been trusted to take a very addictive drug like Xanax for so long and have never over used it or had to have my dosage changed so why can't I be trusted period with meds. Sometimes I think when some of these dentist see that I already take something like Xanax they just assume I am a junkie and just want pain meds on top of it.......I hope too that this dentist will let me continue on the Norco til I am pain free. The splint he has me in now is just a temp one, my mouth will not open far enough for him to make dental impressions yet and I had an insurance issue too. He has got to know how much pain I am in cause he made me this emergency splint in his office at no charge seeing that I was crippled with pain. I am rooting for you and let me know how you make out. I was wondering myself about pain management, but I am afraid of the hassle they will put me through. I don't want shots and cortisone and such, just a simple pill that will help me function. Karen :)
I also take Xanax and have taken it for about 10 years now. I have panic/anxiety disorder and what gets me is that I have been trusted to take a very addictive drug like Xanax for so long and have never over used it or had to have my dosage changed so why can't I be trusted period with meds. Sometimes I think when some of these dentist see that I already take something like Xanax they just assume I am a junkie and just want pain meds on top of it.......I hope too that this dentist will let me continue on the Norco til I am pain free. The splint he has me in now is just a temp one, my mouth will not open far enough for him to make dental impressions yet and I had an insurance issue too. He has got to know how much pain I am in cause he made me this emergency splint in his office at no charge seeing that I was crippled with pain. I am rooting for you and let me know how you make out. I was wondering myself about pain management, but I am afraid of the hassle they will put me through. I don't want shots and cortisone and such, just a simple pill that will help me function. Karen :)
tnjpainneverdie
04-10-2004, 01:46 AM
I feel your pain, those Fu##ing doctors, some of them are real stupid. I had my first doctor cut me off after 4 weeks, when I stopped my headaches were so bothersome and painful that I couldn't do daily chores. I was taking 25+ advils with no relief, then luckily my wife works for a doctors office and her doctor isn't a ******** about prescribing pills for the right reasons. Its painful as hell and some people just don't think its for real.
I'm just wondering why the insurance would ever cut off anyone from meds if the doctor is saying it's ok.?
I'm just wondering why the insurance would ever cut off anyone from meds if the doctor is saying it's ok.?
Amazon1
04-10-2004, 04:53 AM
Angel, I am on Xanax for the same reasons and never thought to bring up the fact that I have been trusted to be on it for so long and have never had any problems in a little over 13-years...I'll add that to my ever-growing list! :rolleyes: You really should consider yourself lucky to be given the Norco right of the bat...sounds like your dentist really knows what he is doing! From what I have researched, Norco is so much better for you due to its lower amount of liver damaging ingredients...If you don't mind me asking, what miligram are you on? Is it simliar to Vicoden or Vicopropfen in its pain relief? If your dentist is willing to continue to prescribe for you until your pain is gone, I would not even think about PM...and I agree with you that the cortizone shots are useless as I've had that too and all I got was a sore arm! TC! :)
tnjpainneverdie, Ditto! I am not sure why my insurance company is hasseling my GP either...their reasoning was that my weekly presciption of Vicopropfen was too often and that if it was to continue for longterm they wanted me to go into PM...which, I think they were almost 100% sure that I would probably be refused pain meds so they wouldn't have to continue to pay! Sneeky, huh? My GP is a very caring fellow and we are also long time friends...I am thinking he will work with me on this one and maybe we can "work around" my sneeky insurance companys tactics! (I have to be "sneekier", LOL! :D )
Amazon1
tnjpainneverdie, Ditto! I am not sure why my insurance company is hasseling my GP either...their reasoning was that my weekly presciption of Vicopropfen was too often and that if it was to continue for longterm they wanted me to go into PM...which, I think they were almost 100% sure that I would probably be refused pain meds so they wouldn't have to continue to pay! Sneeky, huh? My GP is a very caring fellow and we are also long time friends...I am thinking he will work with me on this one and maybe we can "work around" my sneeky insurance companys tactics! (I have to be "sneekier", LOL! :D )
Amazon1
kittencaboodle
04-18-2004, 06:24 PM
Amazon1......
The Vicoprofen that you use is equivalent to Vicodin ES. Both contain 7.5mg of hydrocodone. Norco contains 10mg of hydro and regular Vicodin has 5mg of hydro.
~~~~
Kitt
The Vicoprofen that you use is equivalent to Vicodin ES. Both contain 7.5mg of hydrocodone. Norco contains 10mg of hydro and regular Vicodin has 5mg of hydro.
~~~~
Kitt
Amazon1
04-20-2004, 08:17 AM
Thanks Kitten, Don't they make a lower dose of Norco as well? Oh well...I meant "similiar to" as in it is an Opiate containing Hydrocodone...guess I need to be abit more specific next time!
Amazon1
Amazon1
westin4
04-20-2004, 09:34 AM
Amazon, I have been on Norco for about 5 weeks now and it is 7.5/325. My dentist said that Norco is better for you in the fact it does not travel through the liver. I was taking SO much medication when I first went to see him trying to get rid of pain, he knew I was serious. My old dentist couldn't have cared less!
Karen
Karen
Amazon1
04-21-2004, 03:16 AM
Hi Angel, yes, I have heard that too about "Norco"...that it is better on your liver and for longterm CP. You are lucky to have found a caring dentist that understands about pain control and medications more than most!
Good luck to you and Take care! :)
Amazon1
Good luck to you and Take care! :)
Amazon1