I really need your input guys!!
I have read about cortisone causing tissue damage..Should i just skip it until i go to my doc on tuesday??I have an appt for monday to get the shot..I have never been through stuff like i have lately and i really need some input..My sis in law says she went for an EMg and never felt any more pain after having it done.Could it be possible that the electrical shocks woke her nerves up? I have never heard of such stuff happening..thanks in advance
Sublime~~

I, too, have been reading a lot of negative stuff about the steroid injections, and I have decided that I won't take them any more even tho I did get some relief from them.

Not only can they cause tissue destruction, but they can cause arachnoiditis, a horribly painful disease....there have been, according to what I read, 350 deaths in the last 4 years and l5,000 medical "events". Pretty high stats as far as I am concerned. The steroids used are NOT approved by the FDA for the purpose of epidural injections and a warning to that effect is being placed in the literature. My guess is that a lot of doctors don't even know this. PM clinics have to just hate this news leaking out....after all, that's how they make their big $$$$ and its why many of them say they won't do PM with meds only.

Just my thoughts on this you understand. Everyone must make up their own minds as to how much risk they are willing to take. Pain can drive us to just about any lengths in our search for relief.

Good luck in whatever decision you make.

Carol

Thanks carol
I will do some more research..This would be my first shot of cortisone..I am wondering if the side affects only happen after several shots..Ok off to do more reading!!
sublime~~ :confused:

Some people get tremendous relief with the shots and others get none. Its hit or miss and only very temporary if it does help. The risks are enormous and I will never put myself through that agony again. They not only didnt help my pain but made it worse. Just have to make the decision yourself and make sure youre informed on them. Good luck.
Kevin

Hi sublime, I was wondering if Carol cut this from one of the many recent article about the use of steroids in the epidural space. Aside from what she said, It's not FDA approved either.

"Not only can they cause tissue destruction, but they can cause arachnoiditis, a horribly painful disease....there have been, according to what I read, 350 deaths in the last 4 years and l5,000 medical "events". Pretty high stats as far as I am concerned. The steroids used are NOT approved by the FDA for the purpose of epidural injections and a warning to that effect is being placed in the literature. My guess is that a lot of doctors don't even know this. PM clinics have to just hate this news leaking out....after all, that's how they make their big $$$$ and its why many of them say they won't do PM with meds only."


There is also the risk of nicking the Dura and causing a spinal fluid leak. I have had 4 blood patches in the last 9 years and 3 were from ESI's where the needle had to be pushed so hard through scare tissue they didn't stop in time to prevent going directly into the thecal sac and spinal cord. The spinal headache is the most intense headache you can imagine because you brain sets down on your skull when you loose spinal fluid.

Blood patches are used to correct the problem but some docs make folks ride it out hoping the puncture or nick will close on it's own, Eventually scar tissue will close it but spinal fluid has no clotting ability on it's own.

However I have read folks that did get relief from ESI. Every clinical trial done shows the existence of the placebo effect. If the doc does a great job on selling the idea and the patient has great belief it will work, you have to wonder if the % of people that it works on is any higher than those that saline would work on.


Being cured by an EMG is pretty unheard of. It's simply a diagnostic test to measure the speed and interference of a tiny amount of electric current run from point A to point B. I'm glad your SIL is feeling better, But I have had several and they have no curative property I know of. I have also done TINS, where they attach electrodes to acupuncture needles and zap you. It gives deeper stimulation than a TENS unit. Didn't do squat either, I do go into each modality with the hopes this is it, You would think I would be more cynical but when you see what's possible on those trauma and Super surgeries shows it's amazing.

I watched one where they replaced 2 destroyed vertebrae from a tumor and radiation with a titanium spacing device.They actually removed 2 lumbar vertabrea and with the spacer the guy could walk again. They also filled a hollow tube portion with crushed bone hoping to add some fusion stability although the hardware was designed to take the brunt for years/indefinitely.

The reason FDA has not approved steroids use in the epidural space is because no study has been done to reviel whether the actual benefit is any higher than the test group that receives saline or another benign substitute.
It's just another example of off label use of medication. It's done procedurally all the time. There isn't a Pedicle screw that has FDA approval and yet they have been using these huge hex head lag bolts designed and approved for the Femur in the spine for decades. They have only taken on the term pedicle screw because this is where they place the screws in the spine, "the pedicle".


It doesn't mean this screw was designed for the spine. In fact , there isn't a lick of titanium or stainless steal hardware that has FDA approval aside from Harrington rods used to correct or limit scoliosis, and Harrington rods got their approval with the technique of anchoring the rod to vertebrae with wire and hooks. Not pedicle screws.
So non approved use occurs all the time, they basically have you sign your rights away with informed consent forms and waivers.

I would probably do one and see if it helped. If it just made you hurt more until it dispersed, I would seriously consider canceling the next 2. They can only do 3 a year, Nut I have been at this long I know I have had at least a half dozen. You'll try anything to relieve pain, especially when docs are stingy with pain meds while trying to figure out what to do.
What ever you decide, Good luck, Dave

I really need your input guys!!
I have read about cortisone causing tissue damage..Should i just skip it until i go to my doc on tuesday??I have an appt for monday to get the shot..I have never been through stuff like i have lately and i really need some input..My sis in law says she went for an EMg and never felt any more pain after having it done.Could it be possible that the electrical shocks woke her nerves up? I have never heard of such stuff happening..thanks in advance
Sublime~~


NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! JUST SAY NOT TO EPIDURAL SHOTS!!!!!
That info came from The Burton Report that can be found by surfing the net. We can't post the web site where it can be found here.

If you are dead set on getting the shot, ask for info on it from your doc, have his show you everything, package insert, ect. Ask him what it is used for. If he doesn't tell you that it is only a diagnostic tool then he is lying. It is a step that they have to offer as part of a pain plan for insurance purposes. I is temporary at best and hurts like he@@ while it is destorying tissue. If you really want to scare yourself you should have seen the lady who was crippled for life from the shots. was on Prime Time this week.

Refuse it and they will offer you Prednisone, which is also a steroid. You can get the same relief from your PT with electrical stimulation. It is just not as instant. But, it doesn't harm you.

The EMG is used to determine where the pain is coming from. Maybe it acted as some kind of accupunture for you sis and that is why she didn't feel pain anymore. Maybe it released whatever was happening in her body. An EMG is the next thing that they do when you refuse ESI.

Be informed! Talk to others on the board who are. Surf the net, don't always take your doctors word on it. If you look at the chart, the ESI is just one of the things that they HAVE to offer you. You don't have to take it.

I had two. Neither of them offered relief and I still have pain in my shoulder. I went through heQQ twice, for nothing.

Take a poll of those who it helped on the boards. You will be amazed at how many people say that it didn't help, it helped for awhile, but the pain was still there later. It is a short term fix, if anything. If you refuse the shot you can get anti-inflammatory meds that are FDA approved. Or, Neurontin.

I also watched "Prime Time" and was horrified at what cortisone did to that woman's body.

I've not had any epidurals, but I was given 2 cortisone injections in my left foot, and the cortisone has caused atrophy of my plantar fat pad on the ball of my foot directly beneith the injection sites. This has been a nightmare for me! Had I known that cortisone can damage tissue, I would have NEVER had those shots...and guess what, the podiatrist who gave me the shots never warned me about side effects.

It seems like it is up to the patients to do their own research before having a procedure done. How many docs take the time to explain the pros and cons of a procedure to a patient? Not many that I've come across.

Anyway, in my opinion, I would advise people to stay away from cortisone injections, especially epidural injections. Research all other possible treatment options. If you have your mind set on the cortisone, please use this treatment as your last resort.

I have had ESIs for upper torso pain and just recently had it done for pain and spasticity in my legs.The uppers worked quite well for me but the effects eventually wear off over time.Some people really do get permanent relief from this.My father is one of them.

The most recent ESIs i had for the legs,didn't do alot for the pain but had a huge impact on the spasticity there.this alone prompted me to have the second just a week and a half ago.Unfortunetly, the effects were not the same.I am now looking into Botox injections for the spasicity issues as it is just horrible.

i guess what it all comes down to is what is the best thing for you.it might be the best thing that you ever did to relieve pain or it might do nothing.but no matter how many stories you read about it, the ultimate decision is yours.i took the chance as i was really a my wits end here in trying to find the best way to find relief.it wasn't all that successful ,so now i know ,and we wont be doing it again.You have to decide just how important and how badly this pain is affecting you and what you are willing to endure to find relief.I know that this probably wasn't all that helpful to you, but the decision can only be made by you.Good luck and take care, Marcia

I didn't see the show but my wife used steroids for years to reduce inflamation from broken and fractured bones in her feet and ankles from having a degenerative neuro disorder called CMT.

Now she has steroid induced osteo perosis. IN the last 24 months she has had 20 fractures in her feet and ankles, 3 stress fractures in her spine and now takes Fosamax at a cost of 75 bucks for 4 pills, one pill a week and they only prescribe Fosomax after doing an upper GI to be sure the Fossamax doesn't eat a whole in your esophegus or stomach. She has also had one foot fused and the other foot and ankle completely reconstructed from the CMT.

She had to pay for her first script for 4 pills yesterday. At 17 bucks a pill it isn't cheap and this is something she will be dealing with for the rest of her life, she's only 38 now and has the bone density of a 65 year old.

I have read where people got great temp relief, but it's by no means a cure for anything. Temporary relief from inflamation. NSAIDS can do the same thing , just not as rapidly. but don't cause the harm that steroids can cause.IMO
Good luck, Dave

I really feel for everyone that has such terrible pain to bear for so long!!! I really hope you guys find some relief somehow very soon!!
I wasnt going to make a decision without coming here first!!
My decision is gonna be to not take the shot!!
I know you guys here on the boards have been through he** and back so i whole heartedly trust your opinions!!!
I have had so many episodes with doctors that i really dont have alot of faith anymore!!!
I do my homework and come these boards to talk with people that have actually been through it all and base my decisions on that!!!
I am going to ask about therapy and then if that doesnt give me some relief .I will cross the next bridge when i get to it i guess!!
Fro m what i have read about cortisone my understanding is that for most it just numnbs the pain so you can get on with your life for a bit. Then when it wears off you have more damage than you started with!!!
Happy easter to everyone
Thank you once again for taking the time to help me..
Sublime~~ :cool:

I had a series of 3 ESI's two years ago. At the time, I had pain in my chest wall from a herniation at t6 and t7. My back did not hurt at all. I had had a spinal stimulator implanted just two months before these ESI's. A few days after my second shot, my upper back started hurting, and it has never stopped hurting. The doctors say they don't know why my back suddenly started hurting, one theory was that it was my stimulator, and when they took the stimulator out, they left the lead in. I don't think so, though, because it's just too much of a cooincedence that my back started hurting right after the shots. Now my pain management doctor wants to do more EPI's. I don't think so!!! :nono: Of course, he's not even considering the chance that the EPI's hurt me. He's pushing me to go to Phoenix and get surgery. Well, I think even if I go get surgery, it's not going to help my back because too much damage has been done. The only thing the surgery might help would be the wrap around pain in my chest, and the pain in my back is just as bad. To me, it's not worth going through, only to wind up still in pain. Plus, naturally I'm scared it will make it worse because everything the doctors have done so far have only made it worse. Nope, no more shots for me, and most likely no more surgeries either.


Sublimejg, IMO you're making the right choice, because even if the shots do help you, they are usually temporary anyway. I wish you luck and take care of yourself :)
Kayley

Kayley
I am so very sorry to hear you have been through so much pain!!!!
I often come here and read and feel like i am a big baby my pain is nothing compared to the stories i have heard from you and others!!!
Best of luck o n your journey to become pain free and thanks for your reply!!
Sublime~~

sublime: great choice, to be informed! :)

I've had two, both included facet joint injections and the 2nd included an occipital nerve block too. The one provided temporary relief. 1 month.

I did have a girlfriend that 8 years ago had disc herniation somewhere in the lumbar region and did the series of 3. She has been pain free since.

My guess is that it can really help some, but not others. Keep in mind, the ones not in pain anymore aren't posting on the board. My girlfriend never had to come for support.

I still do.

Take care,
Del.

Delilah,
The shots are used as a short stop and a diagnostic tool. If there is inflammatory material leaking from the disc then the shot won't help, or it it does it on only temporary. If it does help that means that it was from someother reason than a leaking disc. Muscles or ligaments can become inflammed and then the shot will take down the inflammation and there were safer, non-toxic ways to do it anyway. If you read the publication, The Burton Report, you might have other ideas about the shot.

Herniated discs don't always mean pain, it can be coming from someplace else, that is why am EMG is needed to determine the source of pain. After the age of thirty we all have herniated discs or bulging discs or arthritis according to my spine specialist. It is a fact of aging.

You are playing with a loaded gun by letting anyone stick toxins, especially toxins that are not approved, into your body. If ya don't believe me then read up on them on that report. There are too many risks involved for me.