Hi my most precious friends and souls.

I have a Drs. appointment today, with my chart, which is a joke, because I didn't do a good job, lost papers, put in wrong numbers here and there.

I wish I had one person that knew it all, that could tell me the answers to my questions. I'm dealing with 2 right now. The valium w/d. My Dr. asks me do I want a quicker withdrawal or a faster one. Of course I want a faster one - but the w/d will be tougher. If I say slower one, I will prolong the process, the w/d will be "easier" but they will still be difficult, and what is difficult? I've never withdrawan from valium since I've never taken it. Only opiates.

But now that's I've begun the process of taking valium, I'm afraid to stop. I seem to feel I need that pill. Afraid what will happen to me if I stop or even taper. So, I took about 200 pills over a period of 5 - 6 weeks. Twice I took 5 at a time, because I felt like I wanted to kill myself. Many times I've taken 3 at a time because at night I just wanted to just zone out and sleep, get away from the world.

Don't they go together, wanting out of this life and behavior like that? I know how everyone was worried about my taking my life; I don't want anybody to, it's my choice, but that has not gone away, that issue. I still have not ruled it out as an option. My cats stop me. I cannot see them day after day waiting for me somewhere wondering where I went. To me, that is the saddest story in the world.

Do I even want to go through this w/d only to not to want to really live and so suffering before Im gone. I don't understand it all. I want to live, I mean I want to feel like I want to live and then I will work on my life. But untiil then, I don't know whetherI want to work on it any longer.

A person as an outpatient clinic I once went to, when I told him my clinical story, he was very nice and he wondered whether I'd even go through much of any withdrawal at all, with the amount of time I took the valium. And that I would, but it would not be too rough. He says it' hard to tell thought. Everybody is different.

This morning, I tried taking zero valium, but I didn't like the shakiness, so I decided to take 1 instead. I felt I was not strong enough.

All I do know is that I want to get this stuff out of me as quickly as possible. I want to go back to 0.1 Klonopin and 8mg suboxone. And then think about weaning off of suboxone ... someone asked me why I didn't just go off klonopin also? Another question I don't have an answer to. I would love to do that too, but have no idea what to expect after 8 years of this. I'd rather stay on it for the rst of my life then suffer for 8 years? (if that is what happens?).

And I'm mad that my Drs. don't communicate with each other. different Drs., different scripts, at first no communication with me when I talked suicide and one week later swarms of letters from one as if he was covering himself.

I also don't want to be on any Drs. Mercy or any drugs mercy. I don't think that will happen in my lifetime.

I really don't have a life. Just me, getting older, 53 altho a cute 53, my wonderful animals; when is it over??? I'm not Christian......

Thank you all so much for listening again and again. You've hellped me so much.

Murphy

Murphy,
I wish I had all the answers for you.And I still think the combination of drugs you're on is doing a lot of that thinking for you.It's such a depressant combination,I wouldn't think it could do anything OTHER than bring you down.About the taper-slow vs long-it really all depends on how long you've been taking the Valium.It is a tough process.
Also,I think you have to be MENTALLY ready to do this,and I know you want to go back to just the Sub and Klonopin.You have to get yourself in a place where you can realize that with the extra Valium,it is contributing to the feelings of not wanting to live anymore.I still feel that you need some type of hospitalization for a while Murphy, to help you over this rough spot,to keep you safe,and get you stabilized and strong enough to come back and fight your addiction.I can see a real vicious circle this situation is keeping you in,and I would love to see you removed for a while from your immediate surroundings (sometimes a change in environment can help )-you really need a change to help BREAK this cycle your living in.I KNOW you don't want to leave your kitties,but their mama really needs some help right now.
Murphy,I think about you all the time,and wonder how you're doing.I don't want you to think that suicide is EVER an option.Recovery should be the only option you think about right now,just getting yourself better.When you DO get better,you will realize just how far down you were,and just how heavily influenced you were by the drugs.And you will be HAPPY you made the right choice.Of course we are going to worry about you,we are all in this fight together,and we don't want to lose anyone,we don't want to lose YOU.
Keep fighting Murphy,and keep posting to let everyone know your progress, and what you're going to do on the taper subject.You're a cute 53,you're a cute 53 with kitties who love you,and you're a cute 53 with kitties who love you and a whole board of people from across the United States who love you and are pulling for you....And you thought you just had YOU???
So much Love and strength,Stacie

Stacy,
A secret for you , I agree with you. I think I belong in a hospital for awhile and for those Drs. that did not make that choice for me, made a mistake. But how I hate the hospital, they scare me, and it is true I do not want to be away from my cats though.

I have been in the hospital (psych) a few times..I hated it so much, Then emotional things, a breakup, impulsive feelings/thoughts, got me there. It's not exactly the same now. Now I have people thinking I just need detox and I'll be fine.

But I've been thinking, what about the depression, what about the cycle of depression that caused the symptoms that keep on going round and round. Will they get me one day? I'm sorry to say I'm not going to stay though. I think, I need activity also, walks, sun.

One thing, I woke up today, slept extra long; and that is an extra long time for not taking a valium with no shaking. I had hoped it was a good sign. But then I did start shaking and I took 1/2 and on I'll just stop now because, I wish one person knew everything sometimes and could tell me this is what you should do...a kind, bright, knowing person...I think I would listen and take their advice.

Thank you Stacie

Murphy - I wish that sometimes too. Sometimes we all get tired of having to think for ourselves and constantly deal with life in general. It's not easy sometimes. But I have to say that sometimes it's absolutely wonderful. It's those really, really good times that keep me going. I'm pretty depressed right now... after a break up, just like you said. My heart is broken and oh, you said you are 53 and alone? Well, I'm 33 and alone with THREE kids that look to me for everything. I'm responsible for how they will be as adults. It's pretty scary. I pray that I do a good job with them. I know you can relate at least to the love with your animals. I do love my children so much. But, I'm going through a pretty heavy depression right now too - but you know what? Things could be a hell of a lot worse. I could be homeless, I could have AIDS, I could be blind. I think about these things sometimes.... things could be a lot worse and we have to take a step back and look at how our lives are and remember, things could be a hell of a lot worse. AND - the number one thing to remember is - this too shall pass! You will find happiness again just as I will. We are just in a cycle - and on the low side but we will be up again - sooner than you think!

I have to ask - why no religion? Is it your choice? To me, without God, I would be homeless, childless, jobless and everything else. HE helped me walk right into my doc's office and say 'I've been lying to you for years and I'm an addict'. Without Him, I would be nothing. I'm not trying to push something on you, I just wonder why you are not a Christian? I mean, have you ever been exposed to church and stuff and you just decided it wasn't for you? Do you believe in a 'higher power'? Again, things will get better! You just have to believe...

Murphy...I know this is "off the main topic!"...but you have spoken of your cats and, as a true animal lover, I'm just wondering 'how many' and 'who they are?" :) I have 3 Shih Tzu who I'm sure would LOVE to meet them. :bouncing: Ha! I keep them all in long coats and they have bouncy little topknots...they look like "cartoons!" :D The oldest is a black and white, Aubrey Von Aubrey (lots smarter than I am!); the second is a gray,copper and white, Milo Irish (born on St. Paddy's Day); and the baby is Garson Gossip, a gold and white 'ex-show dawg" who was given to me by my tzu friend in California (I'm in NYC). They keep me sane - a 24-hour job! ;) - and make me laugh outloud a dozen times a day! I bet your cats help do the same for you. I firmly believe that my dawgs have a sense of humor. We sure do laugh together! Of course, CATS probably have the BEST sense of irony. You know the old saying?: Dogs will knock you over to show you their devotion. Cats take a message and get back to you. :jester: Hugs to the furries.
Alice

Banker..
What a TRUE TRUE gift you have in that even tho your heart is breaking now, altho thrief has no time limit and dependening how long you guys had been with each other, I woul guess that in a year, it will all look like something GOOD in retrospect. But you have those kids of yours that are worth than more than anything in the world. Eventually, they will will your best friends and you will NEVER be alone. I face the possibility that I'll always be alone, forever. At 33, well I was beautiful; never thought that would be a posibbility but when you float thru life and suddenly you are 53 and I'm still just fine - fine nothing is as it was.

NEVER do what I did. I had a relationship at 45 that lasted 4 years. No desperation or anything - but I loved and he loved me. But there was complications (too detailed) and we had to leave each other. After him, I decided that I never wanted another relationship and it as the first time I was hospitalized in a psych ward; and also the first time that my drug addiction escalated, and it changed me whole life. Please don't let that happen to you. You've still SO young, I'd love to be that young again and not make the same mistakes I did, even over LOVE. It coul dhave come again if only I had let it .... I understand how you feel. Please feel free to write me any time you feel like giving me a shout on the boards. 53 and 33, they are just numbers - all the feelings stay the same....I want to hear how you're doing....Today I had a good day all, and if it hadn't been for you, what can I say....I did not start the program...but for some reason, maybe god gave me a decent day. And pain like you are experieneng bring about the kind of reflections that help you learn about life and what its ups and downs mean in your life. And I think you have a GREAT attitude? I wish I had had some of yourse.

+++++++++++

I have to ask - why no religion? Is it your choice?

****I do not believe in one religion. I pray, I'm spiritual, it's impossible NOT to believe in some kind of higher power with what goes within ones lifetime. But, I think god or however you look it at,he/she/it gives you the capacity and strength to make decisions, make you suffer for awhile so you will learn some kind of lesson that we don't quite understand. I don't believe that w/o God you would be homeless, childless, jobless and everything else. Something powerful within you or in your soul gave you the strenth to make all those positive decisions OR you may not have made that decision yet because he sensed you were not quite ready.

I'm not offeneded at all by your questions altho some might be. I was born of a Jewish family. But we are not a religious family. What I do no believe in is believing that everyone should believe in one got or one thing only. Whatever it is that helps you get through life which can be so difficult much of the time, you gradaually get to know another god, your own personal one. When I felt like taking my life 2 weeks ago - I believe I met someone new in my life. It was not a person. It was something in me that I could never ever explain. I hope you can respect that as well.

And yes, I very much do believe in a higher power. And throughout our whole lives, we try and figure out - what it it? Nobody really knows...nobody and if you know the person who really know, could you give me his name, I'd like to know too, also because I need much more strenth and other people deserve more and so many things need to be accomlished and we can't do it alone.
Peace
Murphy

Hi Alice, I hope it's OK to go a lot! off topic and talk about our kitties for a bit.

I'm a true animal too, particularly to cats, but I can't even kill a spider. To be honest, I don't recognize the breeds of your cats! I thought I knew everything, but what I did note was that one of 13 year olds was also born on St. Paddy's day and that's why I named him Whiskey (figured it went well with St. Paddy's day!!!

My kitties are 2 13 year olds. Fluffy. Beautiful. Whiskey and I have a special bond. We talk to each other, really. And they not only keep me sane, they have saved my life a few times. I will not abandon them.

I know those sayings you have; I have these little books that have tons of little sayings like that. Cats know they are superior and I think as I was talking about Banker with before, they are Godly in some way. The eyes are the way to the soul, and are they soulful. And there's not a dog I don't say hi to on the street; I particuolarly love old animals, but get very sad because, they are too beautiful to ever leave this life, but I suppose we asll do. It is not fair that they were not given a longer life span...

Nice talking with you Alice.
Murph

Valium and other drugs in that class are only useful short term (about 2 to 4 weeks). They are highly addictive and my best suggestion would be to get off of them. Slow tapering is the safest way. Fast tapers can wreak havoc on the nervous system and leave one with great discomfort for months, even years in a minority of cases. It is tough, am tapering off of them myself right now. Have gone down from 25 mgs of Valium to 16 in 3 months. I have bad days but thus far have been able to work.

If you are not addicted, you can just flush them down the toilet and forget them. If you are, and seeing that you shake when you quit you may just be, then the best course of action is to wean off of them. Otherwise, you keep needing more and more and keep getting sicker and sicker. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it is just the way it is with these drugs. And switching to Klonopin will make no difference, same drug, only more potent. Benzodiazepines are benzodiazepines. Get off the stuff if you are ready to. But you must want it. And you must be willing to hurt some. I suggest finding a doctor that would be willing to monitor a slow tapering schedule. An addiction hospital is liable to cold turkey you off of them and pump you full of other dangerous drugs. Unless you feel sure you could not control the intake of the Valium (taper) or suffer from mental illness this route could prove stressful and harmful. Frustrating too, watching alcoholics and the rest smiling, eating heartily, and getting into AA meetings while you are still coming out of your skin and your stay is almost over. Benzodiazepines are an altogether different ballgame.

Murphy - thank you. That's all I can say.

I have a cat too - but she's a little nutso... She attacks my two year old. Everyone that meets her says she's crazy but I love her just the same. Also, since I had to file bankruptcy and move into an apartment, she cannot go outside. It's killing her. She LOVES outside and stayed outside a lot at the house. But if I let her go outside here, she will end up dead - by a car or something. I just can't do it. She is going crazy in side. Any suggestions for how to make her happier here? She just sits in the window and looks out... Makes me feel guilty for filing bankruptcy, but I didn't have a choice. Drugs...

Good morning, Murphy,

First things first! The reason you did not recognize my twin sister's cat breeds is because they are not cats--they're DOGS! :D I'm sure she'll write back herself to you and you can have a good laugh together!! But, the way Alice and I are so crazy about animals that we'd feel just the same about out pets, if we had cats. There's something about the way animals look so deeply into your soul (even if this is all my imagination...it just feels that way!) They are so guileless. I've had problems at times at work, because of sudden illnesses my two dogs have had--where I had to just get them to the vet right away. Work or no work. My dogs come first when they are hurting.

My small Peke-mix Celeste is amazingly catlike--she curls up and around objects, dozes much of the time, will follow a darting fly with her eye for ever, licks herself and her paws delicately, etc. (Theo, my Lhasa, on the other hand, missed his calling as a government Supervisor. Nothing gets by him..you wouldn't catch HIM dozing in a relaxed position, when he's on-duty (which is all the time). :D . He is 24/7 interactive and smart in a way that makes me just stare at him sometimes. He's figured out how to "tell me" exactly what he wants and needs...and he just seems to be staring at me all the time. He is a bundle of love, looks like a big teddy bear...but his one fault it that he's way too alert to "strangers" outdoors--mainly big dogs. He has no concept that he is a small dog. This ancient breed was bred in Tibet...to warn of intruders trying to invade the palace of the Dalhi Lama...and Theo fervently believes that his assingment is not yet over!!!)

Your story of your loving relationship breaking off when you were 49 was so sad. I am 58...and you are so right that our bodies get older, but our hearts remain the same. When I was a kid, I'd look at older people--and imagine that all their thoughts were "old" thoughts--no longer caught up in a world filled with crushes, roller coasters, excitement at new clothes, etc. It never entered my head that at 58 I would still be ecstatic about the thrill of speed (skiing) or get such a kick out of riding along the river on my adult-sized (non-motorized) push scooter, or spend time studying the fashion news to update my wardrobe, etc., etc!! I'm still a girl inside...and I'm sure you are, too! Even if we ARE more jaded. :D

You pain from the separation of your special person at 49 was probably even worse than it might have been when you were much younger. The older we get, the more we recognize the fraility of close relationships. We have such an awareness of how quickly things can change--from illness, accidents...and most of all.....from emotional changes. But, although you may see yourself as beyond any further relationships--sometimes the heart does strange things...and someone takes the "back route"...and creeps into our lives. ;) (I shouldn't be talking, 'cause after my separation from my husband two years ago, I decided that I was much happier on my own!!!) :D

By the way...my feelings about a "higher power" and religion are very much like yours...and I, too, come from a Jewish family, where only the special holidays were observed. When I see how people through history have killed one another in the name of their God, all I can think is....how primitive we, as humans, still are...to think that the God we believe in asks for such cruelty and such hatred. Some day I hope my Higher Power will sit me down and explain why this madness never stoops!!!

I'm so glad you had a good day yesterday...and hope that it extends right into today and the weekend! :)

Keep me up-to-date on how you're doing! luv, Lynn

PS and love to the "kiddies" :-)

Murphy,
I have to introduce you to my world of animals.I adore them,I take in all strays,everyone knows if they find a lost animal where to bring it.I can't say no.But I have two permanent residents,one cat,one dog.Joey(how he got the name,I just don't know)is my cat,and an entity all to himself.He's got some siamese coloring with crystal blue eyes(not crossed) and a big fat pure white furry belly.But just by looking at him,you can tell he's got it all figured out.I try to keep him inside as much as I can,afraid someone will steal him(he's so pretty),but he's just not "down" with that.And what Joey wants,Joey gets.He'll run like a shot out the door,seemingly with some fantastic destination in mind,then just skid to a halt on the front porch,plop down(THUD),and roll onto his back with paws sticking up,belly hanging all over the place,and well,that's it.His journey has come to an end right there.And DON"T bother him at this point,because that run out the door is all the exercise he's going to put up with at the moment,he's got to gather his strength up to come back in and eat.And eat he does-with his paws.Scoops the food up,eats it out of his paws,and then it's on to a long cleaning session because he is meticulous about his hygiene.I could write a book about this cat,his antics and his "ways" are just hysterical.Joey is his own island.Then there's my dog Max.THE true definition of loyalty and devotion.If I walk out of the house to just turn around and walk back in,you'd think I had been gone for a month.He goes wherever I go.My kids will pretend like they're coming at me,he jumps up on me and lays across me for protection.He lets me know if someones outside around the house at night,and last year let me know that someone was IN my house in the middle of the night,coming up beside me and waking me up with the lowest growl,and leading me out to my frontroom.He walks beside me,sleeps beside me,waits for me outside the bathroom door.He is my lifeguard,my saviour.And quite a few times,my shoulder to lean on,to cry on,never judging his Master's intermittent stupidity.
Sooo-never underestimate the power of a pet's presence in your life-that's what I've learned.My life doesn't feel complete without my animals-always like something's missing.More than once they have led me out of darkness and back into the light-I can't even begin to tell you.
I have more to talk to you about,but it feels like my adult "ADD" is kicking in,and I have at least a hundred errands I'm supposed to get done.I'll be happy if I can accomplish just one.So I'll post to you later,and just keep hangin in there.There is a light at the end of this tunnel,a bright one,and maybe we can all find it together.
Love,Stacie

Hi Alice, I hope it's OK to go a lot! off topic and talk about our kitties for a bit.
To be honest, I don't recognize the breeds of your cats! I thought I knew everything, Murph

Hiya Murph - the reason you didn't recognize my breed of cat is because they are DOGS. :D Shih Tzu are an ancient Chinese-Tibetan breed. They have flat humanoid faces and hair to the floor. The head is usually tied up into a topknot (most people clip them to make their lives easier - the grooming is something else!). They are about the size of a large cat - range 8-18 lbs. You can check the breed out on the American Shih Tzu Club website. Your cats sound SO wonderful. And they're so lucky to have YOU as a Mom. Give them each a big hug from me and da boyz! :wave:
Alice

Stacie - your description of your "kids" is so wonderful--so visually descriptive--that I can almost feel Joey's soft belly...and Max's devotion to you!!! Celeste, my rescue Peke-mix, offers you her belly all day, every day in the hopes of a good rub! And Theo, the Lhasa, lies for hours at the front door (we're in a 17-story apt. building) in the hope that someone will make the mistake of invading our "space"!! LOL! They are so loving...and such characters! So, I know exactly how you feel about your kids. A big thanks for bringing Joey and Max to life for me!! :-)

Lynn,
I love the personality of animals-it's fun to see how close to human they can be.But my Joey and Max are special,life just wouldn't feel right without them.I wish I could post a picture of Joey,he is just hysterical.Joey is Joey,and no one is going to ruin hs time here on earth-he's made certain of that.I think I need to take notes from him,since he seems to hold the key to the meaning of life.My Max, let's me know when it's time to take him out(he comes up,licks my hands,and starts pawing me) and also lets me know when it's time for ME to get out of the house.I've never had a dog like him.We actually could learn so much from these guys,no?
Always an inspiration somewhere to give us reasons to keep on keepin on-we just just have to open our eyes and let ourselves see.I read where you and your sister seem to think that even though still using, you're still not on the road to recovery??Just not true.You know what's up,know what you're facing.Knowing what you want is the first step to achieving it,and I have a feeling,when you two put your minds to it,you can achieve anything!!Just a hunch,but a pretty good one I'm willing to bet.When it's time for you two to say your final goodbyes to the last of these drugs,I'll be right there behind you,all the way.Take good care...
Love and peace,Stacie

Thanks soooo much, Stacie - Yes, Alice and I are pretty good at sticking to plans...but not as good at making the decisions to enact them! LOL! But it is so good to know that you'll be there with us. :-)

My Theo and Celeste are also such a positive force in my life. I'm not a sentimental person on the outside at all--but, boy, those two "kids" of mine sure bring out that hidden side of me!! Hugs, Lynn

PS I have a couple of funny dog stories...and I'd love to hear any of yours!