I had been eating a large bagel (55 gr. carbs.)with a little cream cheese (and sometimes lox) for breakfast. My before lunch reading had consistently been 90-100. Recently I switched to a low carb bagel (18 gr.) which I found in my local supermarket. I figured my before lunch reading would be lower. It's been about 3 days since I switched and my readings are still 90-100. Does that mean that my body was processing the 55 gr. bagel ok? Why didn't my reading become lower with the low carb bagel? I am very confused. I am not on any meds...just controlling with diet and exercise.

I had been eating a large bagel (55 gr. carbs.)with a little cream cheese (and sometimes lox) for breakfast. My before lunch reading had consistently been 90-100. Recently I switched to a low carb bagel (18 gr.) which I found in my local supermarket. I figured my before lunch reading would be lower. It's been about 3 days since I switched and my readings are still 90-100. Does that mean that my body was processing the 55 gr. bagel ok? Why didn't my reading become lower with the low carb bagel? I am very confused. I am not on any meds...just controlling with diet and exercise.

Noodles, your before lunch reading is not likely to indicate the effect your breakfast has on your blood glucose levels, especially if your lunch is 3 1/2 to 4 hours later. You really need to test exactly 2 hours after you eat a food to know the effect of that food on your bg levels. This is what they call post-prandial testing and it is the most important and most telling for a T2 diabetic. Sometimes I will test 1 hour after and again 2 hours after if I think I am sensitive to a food, just to see how my body responds.

What you might find is that even though your pre-lunch is always 90-100 that your post-prandial with the high-carb bagel was 120-140 and your post-prandial with the low-carb bagel was 90-100. In both cases, your body leveled you off by lunchtime, but with the low-carb option, your body needed to produce less insulin to keep you stabilized. The most optimistic goal would be to keep your blood glucose in a straighter line with modest increases after meals, rather than sharp highs and sudden lows.

A bagel with 55 carb grams is actually not terrible, as long as it is the ONLY carbs you are eating for bfast. I would not recommend more than that, and you may find that you do better with less. The low-carb bagel may not have enough carbs - I personally like to have at least 40 carb grams with any meal. Also - if your meal is heavy on carbs (% of total meal) you want to change that - try to have a better balance between carbs and protein - so be sure to eat the lox and cream cheese or some other protein source. It will also help you keep your bg stabile.

I agree, its the 2hr. pp testing to show how you are doing with your particular foods.
It also depends on what stage our diabetes is at. All our bodies are unique. I can not tolerate over 5-6 carbs at breakfast or I peak. I have to keep my carbs very low to get good "straighter line" consistent readings. One should not take anothers advice on the amount of carbs to have....test...test...test for yourself, and your body to see what is the best for you. That's why we have our machines. Follow what your body tells you...you are the captain of your ship!!

I need to vent a bit here... I just remembered that when I was first diagnosed, my regular primary doctor told me to test before every meal and at bedtime. It was the Diabetes Educator and my new Endo that both shook their heads and said, no no no no! They both basically told me that there is no point is testing before a meal if don't also test post-prandial (2 hours after).

It just ticks me off that regular doctors can often give such bad advice. And it just goes to show that, as many people here have advised, a regular doctor really isn't always qualified to treat diabetes effectively.

I also think that seeing a RD is very important - they will work with you to create a food plan that makes sense for your specific body and your specific blood glucose readings.

Arubagal is absolutely right - everyone is is different and needs to do what works for them. I try to only give diet advice to people that are T2 and not following any specific plan or ask how to adjust an ordinary diet into a diabetes diet. I also try to qualify that they need to adjust for their own body and thier own blood glucose readings.

I checked my blood sugar level 1-1/2 hours after having the low carb bagel this morning....it was 149. My fasting blood sugar before I ate was 112. Is the 149 ok? Tomorrow I will eat the high carb bagel and check it....will probably be MUCH higher.

Noodles,
Again, you must decide if that is acceptable for you. I wouldn't think it would be worth the bagel. Actually I don't know "any" diabetices that even touch bagels. Most consider bagels one of those nono foods!! I am very insulin resistant, and naturally your body may be different and you may be able to eat them.
Your are doing the "correct" thing though.
You do right to test. Test again tomorrow after the high carb and let us know what happens. Then another day try some sausage and eggs and test and see what happens. And that may not be good advice if you have high lipids. Mine are good so I get by with it. Test Test Test to find out what is right for your body. Then try not to ignore the results. No use to waste the strips again on bagels a month from now if you already know what is going to happen. I used to keep a list of what I could get by with and what I couldn't. Just remember we are all unique!
I'll look for your posting tomorrow. Good Luck, you are working at it, and that is good!

Noodles, There are different opinions about whether 149 is high or not and a lot depends on how well you are controlling your diabetes. I am certainly not an expert here, and you really should ask your doctor, but I will share my opinion.

I have heard some doctors say that if a T2 can keep their 2 hour post-prandial under 150 they are doing well. I have heard other doctors say anything under 200 is good. Personally, my goal is to stay under 130, and anything I eat that makes it go above that goes on my "avoid" or "caution" list. Sometimes I will monitor a food more closely or combine it with different foods to see if it makes a difference. For example, I can eat a small baked potato with dinner and I do fine. But if I eat peas in the same meal I do not do well. So I make sure that I only eat peas when I am not eating a potato.

Also, you say you tested 1 1/2 hours after you ate... you really need to test exactly 2 hours after. This is what will indicate your body's ability to recover from your meal. Its possible that your body produced the insulin within that last half hour and brought your bs down even lower. If you want to throw in an extra test in 1 hour after you eat, just to see how high you go, that's okay too.

I will also add that I do not think much of foods that are marketed as "low-carb." They are typically aimed at Atkin's or Soouthbeach dieters and use some tricky numbering that reflects "net-carbs." This method of nutritional reporting has not even been approved yet by the FDA and they are scrambling to put forth some regulations within the next year. (There is a wonderful report in Consumer Reports on this) The problem with many of these "low-carb" foods is that they are loaded with "sugar alchohols (usually any ingredient that ends with an "itol") and fermentable carbs which are not easily digested and can lead to diarreah and gastrointestinal problems. Diabetics have enough to worry about - I recommend staying away from these products.

You might be better off eating a few slices of natural whole grain toast (with the cream cheese and lox) and skip the white flour bagel and the "low-carb" bagel. It is possible that the actual carb count is causing your bs to rise to 149, but its also possible that it is simply the white flour, which is a refined or "simple" carb (regardless of the amount) that is causing your bs to rise.

Again, I need to reiterate - I can't answer if 149 is good or bad for you... I don't know your level of diabetes and I am not a doctor... Some diabetics would be thrilled with the 149 and have trouble getting that low post-prandial. But based on your pre-meal tests (90-100) it is probably possible for you to stay under 130 with some dietary changes. Also - don't expect results overnight. Even though specific meals will effect your bs readings, other factors will too (excercise, stress, anxiety, how well you slept, menstrual cycle, and other things). You could eat the same meal every day of the week and have a different post-prandial each day.

I also just wanted to add again that a balance of protein and carbs in your meal might be important. If you add more protein to your meal you may find that your post-prandial bs is lower.

For example, if you are eating a bagel with cream cheese, you are eating about 60% carb and 15% protein and 25% fat in that meal. Adding 1 slice of Lox will shift that ratio, but add more calories. The goal is to shift the ratio so that your have fewer carbs, more protein, and low fat, without increasing your calories. Try eating a bfast that is 50% carbs/25% protein/25% fat or try 40% carbs/30% protein/30% fat. I don't think you would need to go below 40% carbs, but as Arubagal suggested, many people need to and only testing will tell for sure.

If you want some meal ideas, let me know... I have lots of em :D

I get very confused....I've read to check between 1-2 hours after a meal. And is it 2 hours from the end or beginning of the meal?

2 hours from beginning of meal. And while this is quite important, its also important that you are consistant with every test. In other words, don't test today (with a low-carb bagel) after 90 minutes and then test tomorrow (with a regular bagel) after 120 minutes.

I would check both 1 and 2 hours from the start of the meal. I usually reach a peak at 1 hour and by 2 hours it is down quite a bit. There is no way I could eat a bagel without my blood sugar going very high. I would try a slice of whole wheat toast instead. I think 149 is too high, especially since you could make another choice that would be much better.

The sample diet that my doctor gave me when I was first diagnosed showed a whole wheat bagel as one item for breakfast. I know that Thomas' makes some low carb whole wheat bagels so maybe I'll try them.

I'd be careful of some of those sample diets. The one the doctor handed me from the ADA was loaded with carbs. I decided that I shouldn't be following it and tossed it. I've heard many others say the same thing.

OK, this morning I had the high carb (55) bagel with cream cheese and lox. Took a reading 1-1/2 hours later and it was 130. Yesterday, I had a low carb (18) bagel with cream cheese and lox and my reading 1-1/2 hours later was 149! Could someone explain why the higher carb bagel gave me a better reading? And my fasting reading on both days was 112.

OK, this morning I had the high carb (55) bagel with cream cheese and lox. Took a reading 1-1/2 hours later and it was 130. Yesterday, I had a low carb (18) bagel with cream cheese and lox and my reading 1-1/2 hours later was 149! Could someone explain why the higher carb bagel gave me a better reading? And my fasting reading on both days was 112.

Noodles, the best I can tell you is that we, as biological systems, are complex and the responses are extremely variable and dependent upon so many parameters. There are so many things that can influence your response from day-to-day, even when starting off at the same glucose level. The speed at which you digest can be different all the time and this may depend upon all kinds of factors, including what you ate the previous night, how satiated you were before eating, how your body is responding on that day....just so many variables.

Consider having some more fun with this. Maybe try a rapid 15-min walk 1 hr after you eat, then test at 1.5 hrs and see where your glucose level is? Then again, I am a little strange--I used to test my response at 0.5, 1.0, 1.5, and 2.0 hr post-prandial just to see how I would react in the whole scheme of things. Personally, the best thing I could do to impact postively my blood glucose was the exercise. That would (and still does) bring it right back down to normal levels.

Geez everyone sounds like they have their bs under control. My little bs diary looks like a roller coaster. I test in the morning prior to eating and it always is higher by 40+ points than when I tested the night before. I was testing 3 times a day but have now added testing before I eat lunch. Today numbers were 176 when I woke up and 171 prior to lunch. Yesterday's numbers went from 179, 184 and right before dinner it was 108. Today I will test exactly 2 hours after my lunch and see what it looks like then.

I am beginning to get frustrated that I can not get it under 100, especially when I wait up. This I just don't understand. I am eatting a bedtime snack as instructed by the diabetes care giver. (15-20 carbs) :confused:

EJ:

If your "fasting levels" and levels prior to lunch are in the 170s, and you notice that you have difficulty bottoming out below 100 mg/dL, you probably want to check with your physician. Is this an endocrinologist? If not, I would recommend that you use one since they are more specialized in diabetes.

Anyway, if you are on oral meds, they may need to up the dosage, or possibly use insulin if you just can't get the control you need. Don't fret over it too much--knowing where you need to be is more than half of the battle. With the help of your physician, you can make it the rest of the way. It takes time to learn how you respond (typically) to many kinds of foods.

I am beginning to get frustrated that I can not get it under 100, especially when I wait up. This I just don't understand. I am eatting a bedtime snack as instructed by the diabetes care giver. (15-20 carbs) :confused:

I would not worry so much about "getting it under 100" but rather getting level readings that are consistantly lower. Your drop from 184 to 108 is dramatic and could cause low bs symptoms if it is falling rapidly in a short time-frame. The rollercoaster is not healthy. It might be healthier to try to attain a level of 130 or 140 throughout the day (don't worry about getting it down lower) and then after you level off for a few weeks try lowing it further. But PLEASE ask your doctor first- this is just a suggestion!

I agree that you should see an Endo about your numbers... if they are consistantly high it seems like there are steps that can be taken to get you lower, without you having to skip snacks. Some GPs accept numbers in the 170s as controlled, early on, my doctor gave me that as a goal. But as soon as I did research, I quickly learned that I did not want to accept that. I am now consistantly between 100-120 and my goal is to stay level throughout the day. I never want to go lower because I experience HypoG if I do.

Regarding the testing - i get very frustrated with the recommendations of doctors (especially GPs). Testing 3X per day, without more specific instructions is virtually useless. My GP precribed testing "before each meal and at bedtime" as if it were an antibiotic - whats the point? There needs to be a rhyme and reason to testing... My Endo set me straight on that.

I recommend that you wrap all your tests around meals. You can test your fasting and then 2 hours after bfast. Then test before lunch and then 2 hours after lunch. If you are curious, you can add incremental tests at the .5, 1 , and 1.5 hr mark, to see how your body is responding to various foods. This of course means that you should be tracking what you are eating. If you don't want to test that much, do your fasting test each day, but then choose a different meal each day to test around. For example, test around bfast on monday, lunch on tuesday, etc... Doing this, you will quickly learn how different foods effect your bg levels.

There are 3 ways to get your blood glucose down. Medication, dietary changes, and excercise. You need to decide what will work best for you and what you are willing to accept. For me, I am not willing to accept medication (I am super sensitive and had problems with the oral meds) so I use a combination of diet and excercise. A diet doesn't need to be hard to follow, but may require stringent monitoring early on to figure out what will work and what won't. But you have to be willing to make changes. You may need to faithfully track carb, protein, and fat consumption. By doing this you will learn your tolerance levels. You may find that you can eat 30 carb grams in a meal and keep your bg down, but if you eat 40 carb grams it will rise. Your body may just have a limit to what it will handle. Keep in mind, everyone is different. Are you following a specific meal plan now? What do you eat and how often?

Excercise will always lower your bg, but I would be somewhat concerned to recommend that as the only fix because your numbers seem consistantly high. An excercise plan for you might require that you walk 3X per day after each meal. But if you change your diet, you may only need to walk once per day.

Hope you find this somehwat helpful and don't hesitate to ask more questions! Please let us know how you are doing.

I have been diabetic for 12 yrs and I've always been told to test b4 each meal and b4 bedtime.. Of course, I am on two insulins: humalog varies and lantus 50g at nighttime. I prefer to test my glucose b4 meals, that way I know how much humalog to take and how many carbs to eat. I wish I had done this yrs ago, but I am glad i finally got it right. In the past i was careless, but now I take diabetes serious. i have lost alot of weight and my glucose levels are coming down. Was 7.0 last Jan 04, now 6.1. Boy, I am tired of eating fiber cereal. I know it does help me control me sugar and makes me crave starches and sweets less.

Yes, type 1 diabetics need to test before meals in order to use proper amount of insulin. Type 2 diabetics need to test 2 hrs. after meals to see what the food consumed did to the BS. If necessary make adjustments in food choices and portions in order to control better. Also tells whether more exercise is needed to bring a too high BS back down.

Well that just goes to show that the GPs don't often give proper instructions. He was giving me testing instructions for a T1 on insulin and I am a T2 on no meds! Well, my endo set me straight, but thanks for clarifying - I really don't know much about T1 at all! At least now I understand where the confusion came from.

Thanks everyone for you contributions. :)

I have an appointment with my physican next week. At that time I will see my blood work results. I am trying to control this with my diet and exercise. For years (over 15) I was a regular at the gym. I lifted heavy and did cardio on stair machines and treadmills, (no longer lift heavy, little arthritis in shoulders). I also cycled to and from work 3 times a week (35 miles round tirip). I was a runner up until the mid 80s when I had to succomb to a major knee injury that proved to be too much for pavement pounding. I have never really been over weight with the exeception of a few extra pounds picked up during a vacation. I am now back on a treadmill and or eliptical machine for 30 minutes a day four times a week. On the weekends I often work out on my property cutting brush and other manual labor. This problem may have been with me for some time but because of my lifestyle and diet which consistanted mostly of veggies and protein it never reared it face. For the last 7 years I visited my doctor anually for blood test, physical exams and procedures to ensure that ther was nothing hiding like cancer, etc. This was a shock to be diagnosed at first but then I learned my great grandfather had to go on insulin in his late 40s. He lived to be 84. It seems he passed this along to my grandmother. She was not diagnosed until her early 60s, (oral medication only). She lived to be 89.

So you see my frustration is more of a control thing. I am not comfortable when I am not in control of my body.

So you see my frustration is more of a control thing. I am not comfortable when I am not in control of my body.

I know what you mean about the control thing. I tend to get a bit obsessive about controlling my body, but I also have learned to set reasonable goals.

I keep spreadsheets on my food intake (complete nutritional breakdown of every meal), excercise, weight, meds, and labwork (see, I am a bit obsessive!) but this helps me identify problems. When my bg goes up, I can track it back and figure out the cause. I can see the effects of excercise and I can plan exactly how much excercise I need in a day to maintain my bg levels. If I test a little high after a specific meal, I put on my sneaks and walk around the block twice, and figure out what food or food combination may have caused it and avoid it in the future.

My Endo asked me how I was keeping such good control over my bg without the meds... I pulled out my spreadsheets and his eyes popped out of his head! I don't think he has ever seen it done so extensively - he asked for copies of everything.

I know not everyone has the time or patience to do this type of tracking, but if you are a control freak, it really does help!