justme_
05-13-2004, 05:09 PM
Is it ok to be obsessed about counting calories? I mean some people say if you go that way you will never have succesfull weightloss but calories are the key to weightloss right? cal in- cal out= weightloss/gain right? is it also ok to taste things and then spit them out or will that ruin weightloss as well? sometimes i just feel like having a delicious full of calories unhealthy snack but im afraid to swallow it. i do this when it's night and i've already reached my daily limit of calories. weighing too frequently doesn't really have to do anything with losing or not losing weight either right, i know there's a lot of other things influencing my weight but i like checkin it, just to see. and a 50% carb 25% fats (mostly unsaturated) 25% protein out of 100% calories is that good? cause a lot of people say you should eat more protein etc. what kind of vitamins do i have to take in? could i just eat healthy foods or do i have to add supplements? i get in around 500 mg of calcium which is obviously not enough, should i take in calcium supplements? how often? what will they do? what will happen when i stop taking them, will my body feel like it's missing more calcium then it did before i started taking them? why don't i know when i'm feeling full? i always eat my plate empty but i make sure i limit my calories. is that a bad thing? should i add in more variaty? i usually eat about the same kind of stuff everyday. not exactly of course. but just the obvious foods. i haven't really lost any weight since i started living healthy, so does this mean my metabolism slowed down just as much as lowering calories did? so if i started eating again as i did before i will get even bigger? why won't i lose weight even tho i changed from sitting in front of tv all day eating junkfood to exercising vigerously about 5 days a week 2 hours every time. also weightlifting. is my body trying to stick to this weight cause it feels comfortable here? im on a healthy weight, altho not very pretty. i could DEFINITELY lose some bodyfat. can i have healthy desserts every day? like today i put a banana (with skin) in the microwave and used low-fat and unsweetened yogurt as cream and some cinnamon. those sort of desserts are ok right? i did add it to my list of calories so i didn't get in too many calories or anything. well these were my questions... thanks in advance
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DonutsNCoffee
05-13-2004, 06:33 PM
Is it ok to be obsessed about counting calories?
Depends on your definition of obsessed. I used to keep a spreadsheet and that really helped me become more aware of how much I was eating. But now I'm at the point where I can just wing it. But this is something that takes time to learn. Beginners really should get in the habit of writing down calories.
I mean some people say if you go that way you will never have succesfull weightloss but calories are the key to weightloss right? cal in- cal out= weightloss/gain right?
Weight loss does boil down to calories but it's not that simple. If it were simply about calories, then you could eat 1000 calories worth of pizza each day and nothing else and still lose weight. Calories are the starting point, not the end. Once you have an idea of how many calories you need, you need to figure out where those calories should come from (carbs, protein, fat), how much to have, in what combinations, and when. And then of course there's the exercise part of the formula.
is it also ok to taste things and then spit them out or will that ruin weightloss as well?
I would encourage you not to do this. What I've learned the hard way is that if you have cravings, it's better to give in to them early rather than let it build up. The problem with spitting it out is that you're not really satisfying the craving. You're just teasing yourself and the craving will get worse. Plus it's a very slippery sloap you're getting on. Today you spit it out. Tomorrow you may swallow it and then force it back up.
weighing too frequently doesn't really have to do anything with losing or not losing weight either right, i know there's a lot of other things influencing my weight but i like checkin it, just to see.
It's very common to see wild fluctuations between days. The amount of water and glycogen you're retaining can cause shifts as much as 5 pounds. You should weigh yourself once a week at the same time on the same day under the same conditions.
and a 50% carb 25% fats (mostly unsaturated) 25% protein out of 100% calories is that good? cause a lot of people say you should eat more protein etc.
There is no nutrient ratio that applies to everyone. You need to experiment to figure out what works for you. Some people are more carb sensitive than others. I personally can't lose weight unless I follow a 40% protein, 40% carb, 20% fat plan. But others can get away with as much as 65% carbs.
what kind of vitamins do i have to take in? could i just eat healthy foods or do i have to add supplements? i get in around 500 mg of calcium which is obviously not enough, should i take in calcium supplements? how often? what will they do? what will happen when i stop taking them, will my body feel like it's missing more calcium then it did before i started taking them?
Any multi-vitamin will do. As far as supplements go, that and maybe flaxseed oil are the only ones you should ever need. Always choose real food over supplements. If you're eating enough, you should get enough calcium. Otherwise pick foods that are good sources. I would avoid a calcium supplement cause you could get kidney stones if you take too much.
why don't i know when i'm feeling full? i always eat my plate empty but i make sure i limit my calories. is that a bad thing? should i add in more variaty?
The brain is actually pretty slow in telling your stomach that it's full. I've read that it can take as much as 20 minutes for your brain to tell you that you're no longer hungry and should stop eating. This is why you should eat slow and sip water between bites. Other ways to feel full are by adding more lean protein and fiber to your meals. Try not to finish your plate unless you're hungry. This is hard since most of us are told to clean our plates. That's why you should never put too much on the plate at once. Put a small amount and if you finish it and are still hungry, then you can go for more.
i haven't really lost any weight since i started living healthy, so does this mean my metabolism slowed down just as much as lowering calories did?
Not necessarily. If what you're doing is not working, then you need to see what areas you can improve. Are you exercing enough? Can you clean up your diet some more?
so if i started eating again as i did before i will get even bigger?
If you're convinced that your metabolism has slowed down, then eating a little more will tell your body you're no longer starving. Just don't add the calories back too quickly.
why won't i lose weight even tho i changed from sitting in front of tv all day eating junkfood to exercising vigerously about 5 days a week 2 hours every time. also weightlifting. is my body trying to stick to this weight cause it feels comfortable here?
Like I said above, if what you're doing is not working, then see what you might be doing wrong. You may be exercising and eating healthy, but too much of any food, even healthy food, and you won't lose weight.
can i have healthy desserts every day? like today i put a banana (with skin) in the microwave and used low-fat and unsweetened yogurt as cream and some cinnamon. those sort of desserts are ok right? i did add it to my list of calories so i didn't get in too many calories or anything.
There is no such thing as a healthy dessert. A dessert by definition can't be healthy. Treat desserts as cheat food, something you can have occassionally or as a reward for eating healthy. In general, you should not eat less than 3 hours before going to bed. There's a very high chance of that food turning to fat.
In order to really help you, you need to tell us exactly what you're doing. What's your typical day look like as far as meals, exercise, etc.? Tell us what you eat and at what time. Tell us when you exercise and for how long and how intense.
Depends on your definition of obsessed. I used to keep a spreadsheet and that really helped me become more aware of how much I was eating. But now I'm at the point where I can just wing it. But this is something that takes time to learn. Beginners really should get in the habit of writing down calories.
I mean some people say if you go that way you will never have succesfull weightloss but calories are the key to weightloss right? cal in- cal out= weightloss/gain right?
Weight loss does boil down to calories but it's not that simple. If it were simply about calories, then you could eat 1000 calories worth of pizza each day and nothing else and still lose weight. Calories are the starting point, not the end. Once you have an idea of how many calories you need, you need to figure out where those calories should come from (carbs, protein, fat), how much to have, in what combinations, and when. And then of course there's the exercise part of the formula.
is it also ok to taste things and then spit them out or will that ruin weightloss as well?
I would encourage you not to do this. What I've learned the hard way is that if you have cravings, it's better to give in to them early rather than let it build up. The problem with spitting it out is that you're not really satisfying the craving. You're just teasing yourself and the craving will get worse. Plus it's a very slippery sloap you're getting on. Today you spit it out. Tomorrow you may swallow it and then force it back up.
weighing too frequently doesn't really have to do anything with losing or not losing weight either right, i know there's a lot of other things influencing my weight but i like checkin it, just to see.
It's very common to see wild fluctuations between days. The amount of water and glycogen you're retaining can cause shifts as much as 5 pounds. You should weigh yourself once a week at the same time on the same day under the same conditions.
and a 50% carb 25% fats (mostly unsaturated) 25% protein out of 100% calories is that good? cause a lot of people say you should eat more protein etc.
There is no nutrient ratio that applies to everyone. You need to experiment to figure out what works for you. Some people are more carb sensitive than others. I personally can't lose weight unless I follow a 40% protein, 40% carb, 20% fat plan. But others can get away with as much as 65% carbs.
what kind of vitamins do i have to take in? could i just eat healthy foods or do i have to add supplements? i get in around 500 mg of calcium which is obviously not enough, should i take in calcium supplements? how often? what will they do? what will happen when i stop taking them, will my body feel like it's missing more calcium then it did before i started taking them?
Any multi-vitamin will do. As far as supplements go, that and maybe flaxseed oil are the only ones you should ever need. Always choose real food over supplements. If you're eating enough, you should get enough calcium. Otherwise pick foods that are good sources. I would avoid a calcium supplement cause you could get kidney stones if you take too much.
why don't i know when i'm feeling full? i always eat my plate empty but i make sure i limit my calories. is that a bad thing? should i add in more variaty?
The brain is actually pretty slow in telling your stomach that it's full. I've read that it can take as much as 20 minutes for your brain to tell you that you're no longer hungry and should stop eating. This is why you should eat slow and sip water between bites. Other ways to feel full are by adding more lean protein and fiber to your meals. Try not to finish your plate unless you're hungry. This is hard since most of us are told to clean our plates. That's why you should never put too much on the plate at once. Put a small amount and if you finish it and are still hungry, then you can go for more.
i haven't really lost any weight since i started living healthy, so does this mean my metabolism slowed down just as much as lowering calories did?
Not necessarily. If what you're doing is not working, then you need to see what areas you can improve. Are you exercing enough? Can you clean up your diet some more?
so if i started eating again as i did before i will get even bigger?
If you're convinced that your metabolism has slowed down, then eating a little more will tell your body you're no longer starving. Just don't add the calories back too quickly.
why won't i lose weight even tho i changed from sitting in front of tv all day eating junkfood to exercising vigerously about 5 days a week 2 hours every time. also weightlifting. is my body trying to stick to this weight cause it feels comfortable here?
Like I said above, if what you're doing is not working, then see what you might be doing wrong. You may be exercising and eating healthy, but too much of any food, even healthy food, and you won't lose weight.
can i have healthy desserts every day? like today i put a banana (with skin) in the microwave and used low-fat and unsweetened yogurt as cream and some cinnamon. those sort of desserts are ok right? i did add it to my list of calories so i didn't get in too many calories or anything.
There is no such thing as a healthy dessert. A dessert by definition can't be healthy. Treat desserts as cheat food, something you can have occassionally or as a reward for eating healthy. In general, you should not eat less than 3 hours before going to bed. There's a very high chance of that food turning to fat.
In order to really help you, you need to tell us exactly what you're doing. What's your typical day look like as far as meals, exercise, etc.? Tell us what you eat and at what time. Tell us when you exercise and for how long and how intense.
justme_
05-14-2004, 01:19 PM
oh wow thanks for all your answers! well my day looks like this: i usually get up around 7.30, shower, dress up. i eat breakfast. bicycle to school (only 5 mins tho), then i go to my classes i have 3 lunch breaks first is at 10 am i usually eat wholegrain bread with chicken or peanutbutter, second break is around 12 am, usually eat another whole grain sandwich with chicken or peanutbutter, then third break at 2 pm, fruit and low-fat yogurt. then i've had around 500 calories. then i get home around 4 pm have something light to eat, soup or something. and a banana or another fruit (i eat a banana cause it really keeps me satisfied for a long time, while i could eat 10 oranges and still be hungry). then i go out or something do things differente every day then i go to the gym at 6, 7 or 8 pm, i stay there usually for two hours. i weightlift (bodypump which is weightlifting only, no cardio) twice a week. i do cardio 5 hours a week, and cardio&calisthenics twice a week. i also swim about 30 mins a week. after i get home from the gym i make sure i eat something with protein, and carbs. fish or chicken and salad, also whole-grain spaghetti or brown rice but a small amount of that. and about half an hour later i'll have fruit. i end up with a defecit of 500 calories. im not sure if fitday is right about the amount of calories im burning tho. so i usually count a 700 defecit cause something's not right there. maybe i should make it 800 since i haven't improved a bit. my main food is really healthy but i also like chocolate or other snacks sometimes but i count them to my calories so i would still have a 500 defecit. thanks a lot for your help donuts :)
smartgal
05-14-2004, 01:43 PM
"i usually eat wholegrain bread with chicken or peanutbutter, second break is around 12 am, usually eat another whole grain sandwich with chicken or peanutbutter, then third break at 2 pm, fruit and low-fat yogurt. then i've had around 500 calories"
How do you figure 500 calories? Four pieces of whole grain bread probably run 115 calories each! Peanut butter another 400 or so, plus being high in fat. Yogurt 140 and fruit another 100. I would say your lunches are closer to 1000 calories.
How do you figure 500 calories? Four pieces of whole grain bread probably run 115 calories each! Peanut butter another 400 or so, plus being high in fat. Yogurt 140 and fruit another 100. I would say your lunches are closer to 1000 calories.
Lindarella
05-14-2004, 05:16 PM
I agree with guilty about the lunches. I think you're definitely eating too many calories.
If you're not losing, you're eating too many calories, because it appears that you are getting enough exercise and you're young, so you should lose relatively easily if you don't eat too much. How many calories a day is fitday saying you're eating?
I wouldn't rely on the exercise portion of fitday to calculate your calorie deficit. I don't think it's right. Just pick a low calorie total and stick with it along with your exercise.
If you're not losing, you're eating too many calories, because it appears that you are getting enough exercise and you're young, so you should lose relatively easily if you don't eat too much. How many calories a day is fitday saying you're eating?
I wouldn't rely on the exercise portion of fitday to calculate your calorie deficit. I don't think it's right. Just pick a low calorie total and stick with it along with your exercise.
justme_
05-14-2004, 06:01 PM
nope not true. one slice of bread is around 80 calories, two slices would be 160 or so. where did i say four pieces? i said 2 slices. it's a thin slice. peanutbutter i only use like a small tablespoon or teaspoon which is about 100 calories. then yogurt ive got diet yogurt and a small box which is around 60 cal (it's like 45 cal per 100 gram and the box is 125 grams). the chicken filet is around 30 calories. the fruit is around 40 calories.
oh come on, do you honestly think i don't know what im eating? man.......
so let's count them together: 160 + 100 + 60 + 30 + 40 = around 400 cal, I said 500 just to make sure im not putting down too little. I use fitday.com and write down every food I eat in the right amounts and I have a lot of foods of which i put down the nutritious value myself, cause it's more accurate than the estimates made on fitday.com, so DEFINITELY NOT 1000. oh my god... *rolls eyes*. sorry for being a ***** really but this is just silly. if i say 500 i mean 500.
and the fruit is usually half a pink grapefruit or (yes OR, not and) 5 or so medium strawberries. how is that 100 calories? and yeah im not relying on fitday.com's estimates on my fatburning that's why i chose to put a 700 defecit instead of 500 cause it's probably 200 wrong. but they do have a nice reliable estimation about the foods. if you know the right amounts etc.
oh come on, do you honestly think i don't know what im eating? man.......
so let's count them together: 160 + 100 + 60 + 30 + 40 = around 400 cal, I said 500 just to make sure im not putting down too little. I use fitday.com and write down every food I eat in the right amounts and I have a lot of foods of which i put down the nutritious value myself, cause it's more accurate than the estimates made on fitday.com, so DEFINITELY NOT 1000. oh my god... *rolls eyes*. sorry for being a ***** really but this is just silly. if i say 500 i mean 500.
and the fruit is usually half a pink grapefruit or (yes OR, not and) 5 or so medium strawberries. how is that 100 calories? and yeah im not relying on fitday.com's estimates on my fatburning that's why i chose to put a 700 defecit instead of 500 cause it's probably 200 wrong. but they do have a nice reliable estimation about the foods. if you know the right amounts etc.
SnowBnny
05-14-2004, 06:12 PM
The only way I am able to lose weight is by counting calories. I am actually now underweight for my height due to my diet.
justme_
05-14-2004, 06:15 PM
cool, but that's in your genes or are you really just starving yourself? so where do you count calories? fitday.com or what? it's really nice to use for foods also because you can add your own foods or edit some of theirs. are you also exercising tho? toning muscles?
Lindarella
05-14-2004, 06:28 PM
I believe you. I just assumed when you said sandwich that you meant 2 slices of bread since a my version of sandwich is 2 slices of bread. You said you ate 2, hence me thinking you’re eating 4 slices of bread.
My other advice still stands though. I don’t think you should use the exercise part of fitday to try and create a 500-calorie deficit. I think the exercise calculations on fitday are way off.
Having said that, fitday is excellent for keeping track of the food part.
I think I remember reading on another thread that you weigh about 55k, which to me is 126 pounds or so. That isn’t very much. For you to lose weight, you will have to be very diligent, Not much cheating.
I’d suggest eating around 1400 calories a day no matter how much you exercise and see if you lose anything in a week. If you do, keep it up, if you don’t, either exercise more or eat less or both. One way or other you have to get rid of calories to lose.
Don't chew and spit.
In any case, good luck to you.
My other advice still stands though. I don’t think you should use the exercise part of fitday to try and create a 500-calorie deficit. I think the exercise calculations on fitday are way off.
Having said that, fitday is excellent for keeping track of the food part.
I think I remember reading on another thread that you weigh about 55k, which to me is 126 pounds or so. That isn’t very much. For you to lose weight, you will have to be very diligent, Not much cheating.
I’d suggest eating around 1400 calories a day no matter how much you exercise and see if you lose anything in a week. If you do, keep it up, if you don’t, either exercise more or eat less or both. One way or other you have to get rid of calories to lose.
Don't chew and spit.
In any case, good luck to you.
DonutsNCoffee
05-14-2004, 06:30 PM
justme_,
I see a lot of problems.
1. You're eating too often. It's good to eat small frequent meals, but if you eat too often, you're just piling food onto undigested food. Space your meals so that they're 3 hours apart.
2. You're eating too many simple carbs and not enough protein. Every meal should include lean protein. Protein slows digestion, boosts your metabolism, and helps prevent muscle loss. You have meals which are mainly carbs. Not only that, they're the simple kind which tend to be absorbed quickly.
3. You're eating too many carbs in the evening. The metabolism starts out high and slows down as the day progresses. If you eat a lot of carbs for dinner, there's a good chance not all of it will be burned. Dinner should consist of lean protein, some vegetables, and no dessert.
4. Your workouts are too long. Never workout for more than 1 hour. After 1 hour, your body will think something's wrong and actually begin storing fat and breaking down muscle.
5. Stop eating snacks. Don't think that just because you're in a caloric deficit that you can somehow get away with eating junk food. Calories count, but weight loss is never that simple.
I see a lot of problems.
1. You're eating too often. It's good to eat small frequent meals, but if you eat too often, you're just piling food onto undigested food. Space your meals so that they're 3 hours apart.
2. You're eating too many simple carbs and not enough protein. Every meal should include lean protein. Protein slows digestion, boosts your metabolism, and helps prevent muscle loss. You have meals which are mainly carbs. Not only that, they're the simple kind which tend to be absorbed quickly.
3. You're eating too many carbs in the evening. The metabolism starts out high and slows down as the day progresses. If you eat a lot of carbs for dinner, there's a good chance not all of it will be burned. Dinner should consist of lean protein, some vegetables, and no dessert.
4. Your workouts are too long. Never workout for more than 1 hour. After 1 hour, your body will think something's wrong and actually begin storing fat and breaking down muscle.
5. Stop eating snacks. Don't think that just because you're in a caloric deficit that you can somehow get away with eating junk food. Calories count, but weight loss is never that simple.
justme_
05-14-2004, 06:46 PM
oh really? wow... well anyway there are some things here that are hard to follow. like if i have to seperate meals 3 hours apart, well if i eat later than 3 hours before i go to the gym i will puke. and since i stay there for 3 hours that woul dbe a meal 6 hours apart. but why shouldn't i workout longer than 1 hour? not even one hour weightlifting 20 mins break and 1 hour cardio? or 1 hour cardio class 20 mins break and 1 hour elleptical. or should i get half an hour break? or go twice a day to the gym? like right after school and right before dinner? cause i try to burn as much as i can on a day cause i don't like starving myself and i really need to get in my vitamins and everything, still growing a bit right. i think most of my meals include a bit of protein... like the wholegrain sandwich with chicken(=protein) or fruit and yogurt and there's some protein in yogurt right. but ill try to follow your advice as much as i can. thanks. i really can have some fruit on a day tho? i think of fruit as dessert but it isn't really is it? next to fruit i don't really see a lot of simple carbs except for the snacks once in a while. im going to get rid of the snacks then. well.. two tiny snacks a week are alright, right? each 80 cals? just so i won't crave too much.
smartgal
05-14-2004, 07:03 PM
How tall are you again? I think I asked before, but are you really certain you need to lose weight. 126 is pretty thin, unless you are under 5 foot 4 or so.
justme_
05-14-2004, 07:03 PM
im pretty short yeah 5"2
Shane S
05-14-2004, 07:47 PM
Calories are one of the biggest factors in weight loss, albeit not the only one.
Isn't eating things and spitting them out an eating disorder?
50/25/25 is a good ratio.
At the very least, when it comes to supplements, you should have a multivitamin. When it comes to calcium, be careful of absorption issues (i.e. calcium and zinc like to fight). Some type of oil is good. A quality MRP (i.e. Matrix) is also a welcome addition to any diet if you happen to need the extra calories/meal on the run (undereating and not eating often enough can be detrimental to weight loss), and nobody who's into fitness should be without some whey protein.
2 hours of exercise = overtraining.
I don't have much problem with your diet in general, although I would say you need more protein and good fats. What's for breakfast?
I disagree you necessarilly need 3 hours between meals. 2 should be fine. You also should be getting carbs post-workout, regardless of what time it is.
Working out for much more than an hour (I'll go 75 or 80 mins myself on some days, but definitely not 2 hours) is both inefficient and ineffective. After a certain point, you're training to lose muscle rather than gain. Additionally, good quality cardio cannot be done either right before or after lifting.
Isn't eating things and spitting them out an eating disorder?
50/25/25 is a good ratio.
At the very least, when it comes to supplements, you should have a multivitamin. When it comes to calcium, be careful of absorption issues (i.e. calcium and zinc like to fight). Some type of oil is good. A quality MRP (i.e. Matrix) is also a welcome addition to any diet if you happen to need the extra calories/meal on the run (undereating and not eating often enough can be detrimental to weight loss), and nobody who's into fitness should be without some whey protein.
2 hours of exercise = overtraining.
I don't have much problem with your diet in general, although I would say you need more protein and good fats. What's for breakfast?
I disagree you necessarilly need 3 hours between meals. 2 should be fine. You also should be getting carbs post-workout, regardless of what time it is.
Working out for much more than an hour (I'll go 75 or 80 mins myself on some days, but definitely not 2 hours) is both inefficient and ineffective. After a certain point, you're training to lose muscle rather than gain. Additionally, good quality cardio cannot be done either right before or after lifting.
SnowBnny
05-14-2004, 08:04 PM
cool, but that's in your genes or are you really just starving yourself? so where do you count calories? fitday.com or what? it's really nice to use for foods also because you can add your own foods or edit some of theirs. are you also exercising tho? toning muscles?
It's not in my genes and I don't starve myself.
I eat the right foods and I do exercise which is very important in a healthy diet.
Someone gave me a link to a chart that tells me how many calories approximately to have per day. It bases it on your current weight. It will tell you how many calories you need to either lose, gain, or maintain weight. It gives dieting tips on how to eat and recommends exercise. I really like it. I used that and I made up my own diary of what I eat per day.
I can't post the link because it is against the board rules of this site.
As far as fitday, I checked that out a few months ago and I never really liked it.
It's not in my genes and I don't starve myself.
I eat the right foods and I do exercise which is very important in a healthy diet.
Someone gave me a link to a chart that tells me how many calories approximately to have per day. It bases it on your current weight. It will tell you how many calories you need to either lose, gain, or maintain weight. It gives dieting tips on how to eat and recommends exercise. I really like it. I used that and I made up my own diary of what I eat per day.
I can't post the link because it is against the board rules of this site.
As far as fitday, I checked that out a few months ago and I never really liked it.
tah4349
05-14-2004, 08:53 PM
but why shouldn't i workout longer than 1 hour? not even one hour weightlifting 20 mins break and 1 hour cardio? or 1 hour cardio class 20 mins break and 1 hour elleptical. or should i get half an hour break? or go twice a day to the gym? like right after school and right before dinner? .
The reason you shouldn't work out so long or hard goes back to cave man days. If you work out too much (and especially if you're taking in fewer calories), your body basically thinks you're being chased by tigers or some other situation that is making you work really hard just to stay alive. It figures that if you're working so hard, you need to keep all the energy you can get, so you stop burning fat and start storing it. It's not until you basically consume zero calories that you'll start eating away at that stored fat again because your body simply has no choice. Before too long, your body will also begin to think that the situation is too stressful and you can't have a baby. Then you'll stop having your period. Most female athletes don't have a period. No matter how many times you take a break during the day, you're still WAY overtraining. Stick to one hour of good quality exercise.
The reason you shouldn't work out so long or hard goes back to cave man days. If you work out too much (and especially if you're taking in fewer calories), your body basically thinks you're being chased by tigers or some other situation that is making you work really hard just to stay alive. It figures that if you're working so hard, you need to keep all the energy you can get, so you stop burning fat and start storing it. It's not until you basically consume zero calories that you'll start eating away at that stored fat again because your body simply has no choice. Before too long, your body will also begin to think that the situation is too stressful and you can't have a baby. Then you'll stop having your period. Most female athletes don't have a period. No matter how many times you take a break during the day, you're still WAY overtraining. Stick to one hour of good quality exercise.
justme_
05-15-2004, 04:48 AM
wow really most athletes don't have periods? a friend of mine is an athlete.. won a few dutch championships. hmm alright... is 1 hour weightlifting. half an hour rest and half an hour cardio acceptable tho? what if one hour of cardio isn't that exhausting and im only tired a bit? so basically i would be burning muscle instead of fat. which i don't want. ok...my fitness instructrice does 3 classes in a row on monday tho.. and she's really fit. so about the storing fat. where will it get its calories from? from my energy? or muscles? how bout really really intense cardio for 1 hour or moderate intense for 2 hours so 1 hour would be better then?
jowi
05-15-2004, 11:58 AM
If it were simply about calories, then you could eat 1000 calories worth of pizza each day and nothing else and still lose weight.
Well, 1000 calories is pretty low, but why do you question that you could lose weight eating pizza. It may not be the best choice HEALTH-wise, but you would certainly "still" lose weight.
Balancing carbs/protein/fats in the best way may be the most efficient way to lose, but for most people, simply counting calories and looking at nothing else will result in weight loss - especially if coupled with exercise. If one eats only 1200-1400 calories coupled with daily workouts, this yeilds FAST weightloss for most people (with normal metabolism) even if it includes pizza, cheeseburgers and popcorn. The worst thing about these "junk" foods on a calorie counting diet (besides the lack of nutrients in some) is that they are high calorie-wise, so you're going to be hungry. If you eat more veggies, then you get more food for your calories, so you don't get as hungry.
Well, 1000 calories is pretty low, but why do you question that you could lose weight eating pizza. It may not be the best choice HEALTH-wise, but you would certainly "still" lose weight.
Balancing carbs/protein/fats in the best way may be the most efficient way to lose, but for most people, simply counting calories and looking at nothing else will result in weight loss - especially if coupled with exercise. If one eats only 1200-1400 calories coupled with daily workouts, this yeilds FAST weightloss for most people (with normal metabolism) even if it includes pizza, cheeseburgers and popcorn. The worst thing about these "junk" foods on a calorie counting diet (besides the lack of nutrients in some) is that they are high calorie-wise, so you're going to be hungry. If you eat more veggies, then you get more food for your calories, so you don't get as hungry.
jowi
05-15-2004, 12:03 PM
wow really most athletes don't have periods? a friend of mine is an athlete.. won a few dutch championships. hmm alright... is 1 hour weightlifting. half an hour rest and half an hour cardio acceptable tho? what if one hour of cardio isn't that exhausting and im only tired a bit? so basically i would be burning muscle instead of fat. which i don't want. ok...my fitness instructrice does 3 classes in a row on monday tho.. and she's really fit. so about the storing fat. where will it get its calories from? from my energy? or muscles? how bout really really intense cardio for 1 hour or moderate intense for 2 hours so 1 hour would be better then?
I wouldn't say "most" athletes don't have periods. SOME athletes don't get their periods - and it also depends on what you consider and "athlete". Women with extremely low body fat will stop getting their period - whether that's from being an athlete or from dieting to extreme or an eating disorder.
I know of marathon runners who got pg while training and even ran marathons pregnant. I consider marathon runners "athletes". The important thing for them, though, is that they eat enough, since they're burning a lot of calories with their workouts.
As for exercise, IMO I think 1 hour of cardio a day is fine, but you won't want to weight lift EVERY day. How about 1 hour cardio per day and 1 hour weights every other? I don't see that as excessive. Now 3 hours a day (if youo're really working hard that whole time) could be excessive, but 3 hours once in a while wouldn't be.
JMO.
I wouldn't say "most" athletes don't have periods. SOME athletes don't get their periods - and it also depends on what you consider and "athlete". Women with extremely low body fat will stop getting their period - whether that's from being an athlete or from dieting to extreme or an eating disorder.
I know of marathon runners who got pg while training and even ran marathons pregnant. I consider marathon runners "athletes". The important thing for them, though, is that they eat enough, since they're burning a lot of calories with their workouts.
As for exercise, IMO I think 1 hour of cardio a day is fine, but you won't want to weight lift EVERY day. How about 1 hour cardio per day and 1 hour weights every other? I don't see that as excessive. Now 3 hours a day (if youo're really working hard that whole time) could be excessive, but 3 hours once in a while wouldn't be.
JMO.
justme_
05-15-2004, 01:04 PM
yeah she's a marathon runner. she eats so much also always bananas and everything but she really has a low fat percentage you can see. i know i dont hav eto weightlift every day i do so twice a week intense. i never do three hours a day (except for sometimes when i couldnt go the day before) . two.
Shane S
05-15-2004, 09:38 PM
If you're doing one hour of cardio, you need better cardio. 20 minutes is all you need. 30 max.
I will agree there is no one right ratio, which I didn't say there was. However, if you can't lose weight at 50/25/25, you're doing something wrong (unless we're talking about those last few pounds). That is not to say that there may not be a better ratio.
T-Mag sums up MRPs best:
We can hear some of the crybabies now, "Wait a minute, protein powder ain’t food! It’s a supplement!" We understand what you mean, but we consider quality protein powders and MRPs to be food. Look at the labels and you’ll see protein, fat, carbs, vitamins, and minerals. Sounds like food to us, just in a concentrated form.
MRPs are often good quality nutrient dense products. Furthermore, we can't really lump them all into the same category in terms of digestion. Sheesh bars contain peanutbutter, oatmeal, honey, and ON 100% Whey... please don't tell me that's candy.
No, it is fine. Where does this magic digestion number come from, and how many meals are you gonna fit in with that requirement? And during that hour, you're running the risk of sacrificing your muscles. That's more important than whatever negligible fat burning benefit you may see. Now, I'm not saying eat a full meal (that, indeed, should be saved for an hour or so after workout... yes, I realize that eating an hour after having a protein shake is evil/the end of the world), but you should be getting some whey and carbs. Besides, a good quality cardio workout can boost metabolism for up to a full day. Insulin spikes are not the enemy any more than carbs are the enemy. They can be beneficial, when used properly.
Maybe it's just me, but when I do cardio, I push myself to the limit: gasping, struggling, and if I do it right, in pain at some point during it (and that's when I know I need to up the intensity). How much lower you think the limit's going to be after an hour of lifting? Further, how likely are you to go to the limit if you're already tired (possibly even in some pain) to begin with? And first thing in the morning, you've already been running on empty for hours, degrading your muscle. How strong a cardio session are you gonna have, and how much more damage are you willing to do? High intensity cardio is a proven effective way to burn fat. Granted, it also puts the muscles at risk, which is the reason why you need protein and carbs post-workout (perhaps not as many carbs as lifting but carbs nonetheless).
Dividing cardio and weights into morning and evening is better. Not ideal but better than doing them both right after the other.
I agree there is no magic number in terms of calories.
I will agree there is no one right ratio, which I didn't say there was. However, if you can't lose weight at 50/25/25, you're doing something wrong (unless we're talking about those last few pounds). That is not to say that there may not be a better ratio.
T-Mag sums up MRPs best:
We can hear some of the crybabies now, "Wait a minute, protein powder ain’t food! It’s a supplement!" We understand what you mean, but we consider quality protein powders and MRPs to be food. Look at the labels and you’ll see protein, fat, carbs, vitamins, and minerals. Sounds like food to us, just in a concentrated form.
MRPs are often good quality nutrient dense products. Furthermore, we can't really lump them all into the same category in terms of digestion. Sheesh bars contain peanutbutter, oatmeal, honey, and ON 100% Whey... please don't tell me that's candy.
No, it is fine. Where does this magic digestion number come from, and how many meals are you gonna fit in with that requirement? And during that hour, you're running the risk of sacrificing your muscles. That's more important than whatever negligible fat burning benefit you may see. Now, I'm not saying eat a full meal (that, indeed, should be saved for an hour or so after workout... yes, I realize that eating an hour after having a protein shake is evil/the end of the world), but you should be getting some whey and carbs. Besides, a good quality cardio workout can boost metabolism for up to a full day. Insulin spikes are not the enemy any more than carbs are the enemy. They can be beneficial, when used properly.
Maybe it's just me, but when I do cardio, I push myself to the limit: gasping, struggling, and if I do it right, in pain at some point during it (and that's when I know I need to up the intensity). How much lower you think the limit's going to be after an hour of lifting? Further, how likely are you to go to the limit if you're already tired (possibly even in some pain) to begin with? And first thing in the morning, you've already been running on empty for hours, degrading your muscle. How strong a cardio session are you gonna have, and how much more damage are you willing to do? High intensity cardio is a proven effective way to burn fat. Granted, it also puts the muscles at risk, which is the reason why you need protein and carbs post-workout (perhaps not as many carbs as lifting but carbs nonetheless).
Dividing cardio and weights into morning and evening is better. Not ideal but better than doing them both right after the other.
I agree there is no magic number in terms of calories.
jowi
05-16-2004, 01:45 AM
jowi,
if you eat nothing but 1000 calories of pizza, you will lose weight. The problem is you will lose muscle and gain fat and the only reason the scale will say less is because the muscle loss will be higher than the fat you gained.
First I want to say I enjoy your posts, which are quite informative.
I do want to disagree with the above, though. I've "dieted" before and simply counted calories and did not pay any attention to what kinds of calories I ate, just counted cals. I did get some protein, but definitely not with every meal and not always meat or eggs. I lost weight - and fast - and it was not muscle turning into fat. My body was getting smaller AND firmer with daily exercise.
I'm not saying paying attention to ratio isn't GOOD - it is, and it's more EFFICIENT weight loss, but so long as one counts calories, if they feel like pizza one day, it's not going to harm their weightloss at all.
if you eat nothing but 1000 calories of pizza, you will lose weight. The problem is you will lose muscle and gain fat and the only reason the scale will say less is because the muscle loss will be higher than the fat you gained.
First I want to say I enjoy your posts, which are quite informative.
I do want to disagree with the above, though. I've "dieted" before and simply counted calories and did not pay any attention to what kinds of calories I ate, just counted cals. I did get some protein, but definitely not with every meal and not always meat or eggs. I lost weight - and fast - and it was not muscle turning into fat. My body was getting smaller AND firmer with daily exercise.
I'm not saying paying attention to ratio isn't GOOD - it is, and it's more EFFICIENT weight loss, but so long as one counts calories, if they feel like pizza one day, it's not going to harm their weightloss at all.
ruglayer09052000
05-16-2004, 08:32 AM
I like what Donutsandcoffee and Shane have to say. Sounds like you 2 did your homework as to what is REALLY required to lose fat and spare muscle. I've done mine as well over the course of the past year or so. Learned some hard lessons and some easy lessons. But, lessons none the less. The amazing thing is that most of the people wanting to lose 'weight' are women, and as soon as you mention 'spare muscle', or 'lean muscle mass', they run for the cover of 'lo-carb'! Its unfortunate today that women think we hold them to some unattainable goal of 'skinny'. Society perpetuates that crap and ruins alot of self-esteem. Personally, I like women proportionate, not 'skinny'!!! BMI and "Ideal Weight" has messed up alot of people, men and women. I use only bf% and LBM and a yearly physical to see how fit and healthy I really am. Just for the record, 189lb, 11%bf, 168 LBM, internally, everything in normal ranges. Down from 210, very little muscle loss, and alot of fat loss. ;)
justme_
05-16-2004, 09:36 AM
no i never do cardio before weightlifting. the other way around. what if i don't exercise for 2 hours. but in the morning i will do cardio for 1 hour. so about 8 hours break. and in the evening weightlifting for an hour. will it still break down muscle? im sorry if i asked this before i just don't really understand yet. and im not sure if i can eat every 3 hours. cause if i eat my breakfast in the morning at 7 am, and have my first break at 10 am that's 3 hours difference yeah. but then my second break is at 12 am and third at 14 am so i should choose between those two. so either 2 hour difference or 4 hour difference? and if i choose to eat at 12 am and get home at 16 i will still have a 4 hour difference. so what should i do with that? ask for permission to eat in class? i doubt they will let me do that tho.. besides the comment about me not doing good cardio is not true. i do really intensive cardio and i get short of breathe etc. but cause i've been doing this for a year now i can do it for longer than i first could. i developed some endurance i guess. well maybe i should go from the elleptical to threadmill but my ankle really hurts.... and im really a lousy runner. but i work so hard at the elleptical.
Shane S
05-16-2004, 10:36 AM
At some point, you may even be able to not count calories. I couldn't tell you what my ratios are or how many calories I'm eating, but I'm thinner now at 170 than I was at 143 when I was tracking everything in Fitday. After a while, it just becomes second nature when you see how your body reacts to different things. Plenty of protein, plenty of good fats, quick digesting protein/carbs before and after workouts, casein before bed, and regular meals. If I get that, I'm good to go. Granted, at this point, I'm more interested in maintaining than gaining or losing, but I can do either pretty much on command.
Like I said previously, breaking it into morning and evening workouts is better. It's not ideal, though. Separate days is better. The body needs time to rest and recover. If you're doing HIIT (you should be), the recovery time is obiously going to be much higher than steady rate cardio. If you're doing steady rate cardio, you could probably recover from that in no time, but still there's an issue with working out too much putting the muscles at risk. There's really no need to do cardio everyday for an hour. Less than half that amount can produce better results, in terms of both fat loss and muscle maintenance. That's why you can get away with doing it on off days, and doing it on off days helps ensure proper rest and increased energy.
All those questions you brought up were my exact problem with saying that meals must be 3 hours apart, no more, no less. It sounds nice to break it down like that. It's just not very realistic. Or necessary.
It's possible they'll let you eat in class. The easiest way, if you can get away with it, is to get a doctor's note.
Like I said previously, breaking it into morning and evening workouts is better. It's not ideal, though. Separate days is better. The body needs time to rest and recover. If you're doing HIIT (you should be), the recovery time is obiously going to be much higher than steady rate cardio. If you're doing steady rate cardio, you could probably recover from that in no time, but still there's an issue with working out too much putting the muscles at risk. There's really no need to do cardio everyday for an hour. Less than half that amount can produce better results, in terms of both fat loss and muscle maintenance. That's why you can get away with doing it on off days, and doing it on off days helps ensure proper rest and increased energy.
All those questions you brought up were my exact problem with saying that meals must be 3 hours apart, no more, no less. It sounds nice to break it down like that. It's just not very realistic. Or necessary.
It's possible they'll let you eat in class. The easiest way, if you can get away with it, is to get a doctor's note.
justme_
05-16-2004, 02:46 PM
a doctor's note... im not even overweight or anything... oh well.. anyway, what's HIIT?
DonutsNCoffee
05-16-2004, 05:45 PM
Shane S,
30 minutes max is nothing. That's fine for a beginner or the person who's only interested in cardiovascular fitness, but for the person wanting to lose fat, 45-60 minutes should be the goal. Human beings were meant to move. There's no reason a person shouldn't be able to do 60 minutes a day. Also, not everyone can lose weight on 50/25/25. There are people who are extremely carb sensitive who cannot lose fat unless they drop carbs down to 40%. As for MRPs, I didn't lump them into the same category. I drew a distinction between liquid and solids. The liquid ones don't require extra effort to digest. That's why they should be avoided cause you miss out on the thermic effect of digestion. As for the protein bars, just because a protein bar contains protein, peanut butter, or whey doesn't necessarily make it good. These bars often have sugar, saturated fat, partially hydrogenated oils (trans fat) and high fructose corn syrup. The magic digestion number comes from plenty of studies using radioisotopes where the nitrogen from the ingested protein was followed through the body and it was determined that it took 3, not 2, hours for the nitrogen to enter the bloodstream. At 3 hours between meals, you can fit 6 meals per day which is plenty. As for the post-workout gap, you won't lose muscle that fast. It takes about an hour for the body to conclude something's wrong and then begin breaking down muscle. The fat burning you see during that time is hardly negligible. That's one time where you see major fat burning cause the metabolism is so high. The only people who should eat protein immediately after weight training are people trying to build muscle. But the person who's trying to lose fat isn't doing that. And I really don't know where you got the idea that cardio can boost metabolism for an entire day. Low intensity cardio elevates the metabolism only during the workout and high intensity cardio or weight training will keep it elevated for at most 12 hours after the workout is done, but that's provided you eat within an hour after the workout is over.
I fail to see why you are pushing yourself so hard during cardio. You will not burn fat during the cardio. The pathways to mobilize fat are blocked and the body will favor glucose instead. Low intensity cardio is what burns fat, provided muscle glycogen and blood glucose are low, which only happens when you wake up or right after weight training. The idea that early morning cardio eats muscle is a myth perpetuated by paranoid by bodybuilders, but if you ask bodybuilders when they do cardio to shed fat, they'll tell you it's early morning. So why would people who value muscle so much risk losing it? The answer is they know it won't happen. If you lose muscle while doing morning cardio, it's more likely you're not getting enough calories. I do cardo every morning for one hour and have yet to lose muscle. Here's a very simple set of rules to follow for cardio:
1. Early morning: Do low intensity cardio for no more than 60 minutes. Eat 30-60 minutes after you're done.
2. After weight lifting: Do low intensity cardio for no more than 30 minutes. Eat 30-60 minutes after you're done done.
In both cases you will have burned fat during the cardio.
3. At any other time of the day: Do high intensity cardo for no more than 30 minutes. High intensity cardio burns glucose during the cardio and fat afterwards. Eat 30-60 minutes after you're done cardio.
jowi,
Simply counting calories may have worked for you, but there are plenty of people who've tried just counting pizza calories and never lost weight. It's not like the body waits until the end of the day, totals your calories, and then decides whether to gain weight. It decides after every meal. Too many carbs in one meal, you gain fat. Too much space between meals, your metabolism slows down and you're more likely to gain fat at the next meal. Eat too little protein and you lose muscle. Those are all accepted facts.
justme_,
Doing cardio in the morning and weight lifting in the evening won't cause you to lose muscle as long as you eat enough during the day. As for eating every 3 hours, yes it's a pain. This is why you should know your full schedule ahead of time. If you have a break that comes 2 hours later instead of 3, then eat 2/3 of what you would've eaten. If you have a 4 hour difference, that's OK, but just don't go more than 4 hours. That's the failsafe point.
HIIT is High Intensity Interval Training where you alternate between high intensity and low intensity cardio. For example, you run all out for a minute, then jog for a minute, and then repeat. But HIIT should be treated as a last resort when you've run out of options. If your current cardio routine has stopped working, then increase the duration of each session. Just don't go past 60 minutes. If you're already there, then increase the number of times per week you do it. If 3 times per week isn't getting you results, then do it 4 times per week. If you're already doing it 7 times a week, then increase the intensity. And when all of these changes fail, then and only then should you attempt HIIT. The problem with doing it sooner is that if it doesn't work, then you've run out of options.
30 minutes max is nothing. That's fine for a beginner or the person who's only interested in cardiovascular fitness, but for the person wanting to lose fat, 45-60 minutes should be the goal. Human beings were meant to move. There's no reason a person shouldn't be able to do 60 minutes a day. Also, not everyone can lose weight on 50/25/25. There are people who are extremely carb sensitive who cannot lose fat unless they drop carbs down to 40%. As for MRPs, I didn't lump them into the same category. I drew a distinction between liquid and solids. The liquid ones don't require extra effort to digest. That's why they should be avoided cause you miss out on the thermic effect of digestion. As for the protein bars, just because a protein bar contains protein, peanut butter, or whey doesn't necessarily make it good. These bars often have sugar, saturated fat, partially hydrogenated oils (trans fat) and high fructose corn syrup. The magic digestion number comes from plenty of studies using radioisotopes where the nitrogen from the ingested protein was followed through the body and it was determined that it took 3, not 2, hours for the nitrogen to enter the bloodstream. At 3 hours between meals, you can fit 6 meals per day which is plenty. As for the post-workout gap, you won't lose muscle that fast. It takes about an hour for the body to conclude something's wrong and then begin breaking down muscle. The fat burning you see during that time is hardly negligible. That's one time where you see major fat burning cause the metabolism is so high. The only people who should eat protein immediately after weight training are people trying to build muscle. But the person who's trying to lose fat isn't doing that. And I really don't know where you got the idea that cardio can boost metabolism for an entire day. Low intensity cardio elevates the metabolism only during the workout and high intensity cardio or weight training will keep it elevated for at most 12 hours after the workout is done, but that's provided you eat within an hour after the workout is over.
I fail to see why you are pushing yourself so hard during cardio. You will not burn fat during the cardio. The pathways to mobilize fat are blocked and the body will favor glucose instead. Low intensity cardio is what burns fat, provided muscle glycogen and blood glucose are low, which only happens when you wake up or right after weight training. The idea that early morning cardio eats muscle is a myth perpetuated by paranoid by bodybuilders, but if you ask bodybuilders when they do cardio to shed fat, they'll tell you it's early morning. So why would people who value muscle so much risk losing it? The answer is they know it won't happen. If you lose muscle while doing morning cardio, it's more likely you're not getting enough calories. I do cardo every morning for one hour and have yet to lose muscle. Here's a very simple set of rules to follow for cardio:
1. Early morning: Do low intensity cardio for no more than 60 minutes. Eat 30-60 minutes after you're done.
2. After weight lifting: Do low intensity cardio for no more than 30 minutes. Eat 30-60 minutes after you're done done.
In both cases you will have burned fat during the cardio.
3. At any other time of the day: Do high intensity cardo for no more than 30 minutes. High intensity cardio burns glucose during the cardio and fat afterwards. Eat 30-60 minutes after you're done cardio.
jowi,
Simply counting calories may have worked for you, but there are plenty of people who've tried just counting pizza calories and never lost weight. It's not like the body waits until the end of the day, totals your calories, and then decides whether to gain weight. It decides after every meal. Too many carbs in one meal, you gain fat. Too much space between meals, your metabolism slows down and you're more likely to gain fat at the next meal. Eat too little protein and you lose muscle. Those are all accepted facts.
justme_,
Doing cardio in the morning and weight lifting in the evening won't cause you to lose muscle as long as you eat enough during the day. As for eating every 3 hours, yes it's a pain. This is why you should know your full schedule ahead of time. If you have a break that comes 2 hours later instead of 3, then eat 2/3 of what you would've eaten. If you have a 4 hour difference, that's OK, but just don't go more than 4 hours. That's the failsafe point.
HIIT is High Intensity Interval Training where you alternate between high intensity and low intensity cardio. For example, you run all out for a minute, then jog for a minute, and then repeat. But HIIT should be treated as a last resort when you've run out of options. If your current cardio routine has stopped working, then increase the duration of each session. Just don't go past 60 minutes. If you're already there, then increase the number of times per week you do it. If 3 times per week isn't getting you results, then do it 4 times per week. If you're already doing it 7 times a week, then increase the intensity. And when all of these changes fail, then and only then should you attempt HIIT. The problem with doing it sooner is that if it doesn't work, then you've run out of options.
Shane S
05-16-2004, 07:31 PM
I like the BFL method for HIIT beginners. Start at a level 5 for 2 minutes, then bump to level 6, 7, 8, and 9 for a minute each, drop back down to level 6, and repeat. The 20th minute should be a level 10, followed by a cooldown. Level 5 is basically just a warmup, nothing too strenuous, whereas level 10 should be something you don't think you're going to be able to last a minute doing. If you're not doing HIIT, you're wasting time and energy. It has been proven to be three times more effective at burning fat than steady rate cardio for a longer period of time. If you can do HIIT for an hour, you're not doing it at a high enough intensity. Do not fall into the trap of believing you can run all day long and get a workout that's either efficient or effective.
Again, if you're not losing weight at 50/25/25, you're doing something wrong somewhere.
You can't lump all liquid MRPs into the same category with each other.
Those are the only four ingredients (PB, honey, whey, oatmeal) in Sheesh Bars. Still not seeing how this is bad.
Suggesting that there is one specific time for digestion is silly, considering the countless potential meal combinations.
I'll agree you can get away with waiting half an hour, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense since about an hour or so after the PWO shake you're going to want a meal as well. There is some debate over the amount of time metabolism will stay elevated (some will say more, some will say less), but the point remains that you're going to see a metabolic spike for quite a length of time.
Why do I push myself during cardio? It's fun. It works. And, as mentioned earlier, it's been documented to be more effective (yes, for fat burning) than standing there getting bored and minimally exerting myself.
Some bodybuilders like to do cardio early in the morning. Others will insist that the high cortisol levels make it stupid. Granted, you can combat that by getting some carbs, but if you do cardio shortly after eating, we again go back to the issue of cramping.
Again, if you're not losing weight at 50/25/25, you're doing something wrong somewhere.
You can't lump all liquid MRPs into the same category with each other.
Those are the only four ingredients (PB, honey, whey, oatmeal) in Sheesh Bars. Still not seeing how this is bad.
Suggesting that there is one specific time for digestion is silly, considering the countless potential meal combinations.
I'll agree you can get away with waiting half an hour, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense since about an hour or so after the PWO shake you're going to want a meal as well. There is some debate over the amount of time metabolism will stay elevated (some will say more, some will say less), but the point remains that you're going to see a metabolic spike for quite a length of time.
Why do I push myself during cardio? It's fun. It works. And, as mentioned earlier, it's been documented to be more effective (yes, for fat burning) than standing there getting bored and minimally exerting myself.
Some bodybuilders like to do cardio early in the morning. Others will insist that the high cortisol levels make it stupid. Granted, you can combat that by getting some carbs, but if you do cardio shortly after eating, we again go back to the issue of cramping.
DonutsNCoffee
05-17-2004, 12:56 AM
I like the BFL method for HIIT beginners. Start at a level 5 for 2 minutes, then bump to level 6, 7, 8, and 9 for a minute each, drop back down to level 6, and repeat. The 20th minute should be a level 10, followed by a cooldown. Level 5 is basically just a warmup, nothing too strenuous, whereas level 10 should be something you don't think you're going to be able to last a minute doing. If you're not doing HIIT, you're wasting time and energy. It has been proven to be three times more effective at burning fat than steady rate cardio for a longer period of time. If you can do HIIT for an hour, you're not doing it at a high enough intensity. Do not fall into the trap of believing you can run all day long and get a workout that's either efficient or effective.
HIIT is not meant for beginners. Even if it's more effective at burning fat than steady cardio is, it is not suitable for the person who's not used to vigorous exercise. Such a person will quickly get tired of HIIT. That person is better off easing into exercise and building up intensity over time. I disagree that a person is wasting their time by not doing HIIT. I would encourage others who read this to not fall into the trap that cardio needs to be so intense in order for it to be worthwhile. It's that thinking that causes so many people to give up on exercise too soon.
Again, if you're not losing weight at 50/25/25, you're doing something wrong somewhere.
How can you be so sure that someone not losing weight on 50/25/25 must be doing something wrong? Earlier you claimed there was no correct ratio for everyone and yet now you're suggesting that everyone can lose weight on 50/25/25. You're contradicting yourself.
You can't lump all liquid MRPs into the same category with each other.
Sure you can. Digestion converts all food into liquids so they can be absorbed into your bloodstream. Liquid MRPs, even if they have different ingredients, don't need to be further digested. The bottom line is by taking in liquid food instead of solid food, you miss out on the thermic effect of solid food. Calories are burned to digest solid food. This also temporarily raises your metabolism. By taking in liquid calories, you miss out on that metabolic boost.
Those are the only four ingredients (PB, honey, whey, oatmeal) in Sheesh Bars. Still not seeing how this is bad.
Why are you pushing Sheesh bars so much? Are you affiliated with the manufacturer? I went to the website. It doesn't even look professional. And when you click the 'View Nutrition Facts' link, all they show is a chart listing the calorie and nutrient counts. I wonder why they don't list the ingredients. And even if it only contains the ingredients you listed, the honey should be red flag. Simple carbs should be minimized. But the sugar figures they give in their chart are just as bad as the sugar content of a candy bar.
Suggesting that there is one specific time for digestion is silly, considering the countless potential meal combinations.
I'll agree you can get away with waiting half an hour, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense since about an hour or so after the PWO shake you're going to want a meal as well. There is some debate over the amount of time metabolism will stay elevated (some will say more, some will say less), but the point remains that you're going to see a metabolic spike for quite a length of time.
If you exercise, then you want that exercise to burn stored body fat. By eating too soon after your workout, you will shortchange yourself cause the body will burn the food you put in your system, not stored fat. The 30-60 minute interval gives you enough time to be sure the elevated metabolism will tap into stored body fat, but won't be too long where you risk eating up muscle.
Why do I push myself during cardio? It's fun. It works. And, as mentioned earlier, it's been documented to be more effective (yes, for fat burning) than standing there getting bored and minimally exerting myself.
Some bodybuilders like to do cardio early in the morning. Others will insist that the high cortisol levels make it stupid. Granted, you can combat that by getting some carbs, but if you do cardio shortly after eating, we again go back to the issue of cramping.
Some? Try most. And as for pushing yourself during cardio, as I mentioned above, that's not appropriate for the person new to exercise in general. A person who's spent years being a couch potato can't just go start off with high intensity cardio. They need to ease into exercising in general. So even if your kind of cardio is more effective, you're doing a disservice to beginners by suggesting they start with that intensity. It's better for them to work their way up to it so there's less chance of them quitting too soon.
HIIT is not meant for beginners. Even if it's more effective at burning fat than steady cardio is, it is not suitable for the person who's not used to vigorous exercise. Such a person will quickly get tired of HIIT. That person is better off easing into exercise and building up intensity over time. I disagree that a person is wasting their time by not doing HIIT. I would encourage others who read this to not fall into the trap that cardio needs to be so intense in order for it to be worthwhile. It's that thinking that causes so many people to give up on exercise too soon.
Again, if you're not losing weight at 50/25/25, you're doing something wrong somewhere.
How can you be so sure that someone not losing weight on 50/25/25 must be doing something wrong? Earlier you claimed there was no correct ratio for everyone and yet now you're suggesting that everyone can lose weight on 50/25/25. You're contradicting yourself.
You can't lump all liquid MRPs into the same category with each other.
Sure you can. Digestion converts all food into liquids so they can be absorbed into your bloodstream. Liquid MRPs, even if they have different ingredients, don't need to be further digested. The bottom line is by taking in liquid food instead of solid food, you miss out on the thermic effect of solid food. Calories are burned to digest solid food. This also temporarily raises your metabolism. By taking in liquid calories, you miss out on that metabolic boost.
Those are the only four ingredients (PB, honey, whey, oatmeal) in Sheesh Bars. Still not seeing how this is bad.
Why are you pushing Sheesh bars so much? Are you affiliated with the manufacturer? I went to the website. It doesn't even look professional. And when you click the 'View Nutrition Facts' link, all they show is a chart listing the calorie and nutrient counts. I wonder why they don't list the ingredients. And even if it only contains the ingredients you listed, the honey should be red flag. Simple carbs should be minimized. But the sugar figures they give in their chart are just as bad as the sugar content of a candy bar.
Suggesting that there is one specific time for digestion is silly, considering the countless potential meal combinations.
I'll agree you can get away with waiting half an hour, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense since about an hour or so after the PWO shake you're going to want a meal as well. There is some debate over the amount of time metabolism will stay elevated (some will say more, some will say less), but the point remains that you're going to see a metabolic spike for quite a length of time.
If you exercise, then you want that exercise to burn stored body fat. By eating too soon after your workout, you will shortchange yourself cause the body will burn the food you put in your system, not stored fat. The 30-60 minute interval gives you enough time to be sure the elevated metabolism will tap into stored body fat, but won't be too long where you risk eating up muscle.
Why do I push myself during cardio? It's fun. It works. And, as mentioned earlier, it's been documented to be more effective (yes, for fat burning) than standing there getting bored and minimally exerting myself.
Some bodybuilders like to do cardio early in the morning. Others will insist that the high cortisol levels make it stupid. Granted, you can combat that by getting some carbs, but if you do cardio shortly after eating, we again go back to the issue of cramping.
Some? Try most. And as for pushing yourself during cardio, as I mentioned above, that's not appropriate for the person new to exercise in general. A person who's spent years being a couch potato can't just go start off with high intensity cardio. They need to ease into exercising in general. So even if your kind of cardio is more effective, you're doing a disservice to beginners by suggesting they start with that intensity. It's better for them to work their way up to it so there's less chance of them quitting too soon.
jowi
05-17-2004, 02:18 AM
well maybe i should go from the elleptical to threadmill but my ankle really hurts.... and im really a lousy runner. but i work so hard at the elleptical.
Instead of running try setting the incline to 12-15% and walking at about 3-3.5 mph or so. This is what I do every day (unless I run) and it's a great fat-burning workout. I normally do 45 minutes, but sometimes more.
Instead of running try setting the incline to 12-15% and walking at about 3-3.5 mph or so. This is what I do every day (unless I run) and it's a great fat-burning workout. I normally do 45 minutes, but sometimes more.
justme_
05-17-2004, 10:39 AM
i think im already doing my own version of hiit then. i mean on the elleptical then instead of treadmill. cause i 'run' pretty hard and sometimes i have a slower break so that would be interval then right? it's also like, i've got 4 mins 'running' with resistance, and then 4 mins without, etc. i mean im no pro, but i don't think im a beginner. i mean i've been joining the gym for nearly a year now a couple of times a week, and my endurance has improved a lot and i can exercise vigorously.
tah4349
05-17-2004, 10:46 AM
i think im already do hiit then. i mean on the elleptical then instead of treadmill. cause i 'run' pretty hard and sometimes i have a slower break so that would be interval then right? i mean im no pro, but i don't think im a beginner. i mean i've been joining the gym for nearly a year now a couple of times a week, and my endurance has improved a lot and i can exercise vigorously.
No, that probably wouldn't be considered HIIT. HIIT involves very regular intervals. You start at a regular pace for 5 minutes, the high interval for one minute, then regular for one to two minutes, back up to high for one minute, and so on. I usually do one minute intervals up and down for 40 minutes. I don't think your occasional slow downs would qualify.
I never realized how much of a dramatic difference interval training makes. My trainer had me switch to it about 2 months ago because I could no longer get my heart rate up from regular steady cardio exercises. Within the first five minutes I was soaked with sweat, where before I'd hardly break a sweat. When I finished, I was worn out - a feeling I hadn't had in a long long time. Now I'm a slave to the intervals!
No, that probably wouldn't be considered HIIT. HIIT involves very regular intervals. You start at a regular pace for 5 minutes, the high interval for one minute, then regular for one to two minutes, back up to high for one minute, and so on. I usually do one minute intervals up and down for 40 minutes. I don't think your occasional slow downs would qualify.
I never realized how much of a dramatic difference interval training makes. My trainer had me switch to it about 2 months ago because I could no longer get my heart rate up from regular steady cardio exercises. Within the first five minutes I was soaked with sweat, where before I'd hardly break a sweat. When I finished, I was worn out - a feeling I hadn't had in a long long time. Now I'm a slave to the intervals!
justme_
05-17-2004, 12:05 PM
i always sweat and everything. well ill do what donuts said and i will only do hiit when this turns out not to be good enough.
smartgal
05-17-2004, 05:22 PM
Donuts n coffee, her note above says the doctor says she is not overweight. She keeps trying to lose weight she does not need to lose, according to her doctor. The reason I asked is because she is doing so much, I was concerned that she might have something other than her weight going on, and I think that might be the case. Exercise and healthy eating are good, but not if both are done obsessively, and you lose enjoyment in other aspects of your life.
justme_
05-17-2004, 05:40 PM
oh no not at all. i mean yeah i care about my health and everything but there are also other things in my life that i find important. but it's not like i couldn't lose a few pounds... cause i could definitely lose some more. i think im a bigger than average, but still healthy tho. there's still a lot to improve.
Shane S
05-17-2004, 06:41 PM
I disagree that beginners can't do HIIT, although I was referring to beginners to HIIT, so the point is moot. I'm a big proponent of efficiency wherever it can be found. Therefore, I will consider anything that does not follow that concept to be wasting time. Anyone who's going to give up can find any of a thousand picky reasons to give up. If they're that picky, they'll find some excuse.
Just because 50/25/25 allows people to lose weight does not make it the correct ratio.
There are those who would argue, to the contrary, that liquid MRPs are a boost to the metabolism.
I believe if someone's going to talk supplements, they should understand the market. Does this also make me an affiliate of other companies that produce quality products, such as Avant Labs, Prolab, Optimum Nutrition, and VPX? How exactly does the quality of a website relate to the quality of a product? The ingredients are listed. I'm not going to agree that simple carbs should be minimized (and certainly not removed), but if you're that concerned, wait for the low carb version. As for the sugar content being as bad as a candy bar, perhaps if you eat the 689 calorie cut it is. Obviously, for someone trying to lose weight, that is more inadviseable than having some honey.
No, I'll go with some. I do not recall the original poster claiming to be new to exercise in general, not that I see the relevance.
Just because 50/25/25 allows people to lose weight does not make it the correct ratio.
There are those who would argue, to the contrary, that liquid MRPs are a boost to the metabolism.
I believe if someone's going to talk supplements, they should understand the market. Does this also make me an affiliate of other companies that produce quality products, such as Avant Labs, Prolab, Optimum Nutrition, and VPX? How exactly does the quality of a website relate to the quality of a product? The ingredients are listed. I'm not going to agree that simple carbs should be minimized (and certainly not removed), but if you're that concerned, wait for the low carb version. As for the sugar content being as bad as a candy bar, perhaps if you eat the 689 calorie cut it is. Obviously, for someone trying to lose weight, that is more inadviseable than having some honey.
No, I'll go with some. I do not recall the original poster claiming to be new to exercise in general, not that I see the relevance.
justme_
05-18-2004, 04:59 PM
ok so what are liquid MRPs anyway, where and why should i get them?
tah4349
05-18-2004, 05:19 PM
MRP = meal replacement powder. You can get them at health stores like GNC, at most gyms, or online. I really see no need for you to start using them, though.
Shane S
05-18-2004, 08:44 PM
I wouldn't shop at GNC or a gym. The Internet is the only place to buy supplements. MRPs are best used as filler or convenience, a way to get an extra meal or more calories if you know it'll be a while before you eat. It's possible to get by without them. The only powder nobody should be without is whey protein.
Shobe
03-03-2005, 12:06 AM
oh wow thanks for all your answers! well my day looks like this: i usually get up around 7.30, shower, dress up. i eat breakfast. bicycle to school (only 5 mins tho), then i go to my classes i have 3 lunch breaks first is at 10 am i usually eat wholegrain bread with chicken or peanutbutter, second break is around 12 am, usually eat another whole grain sandwich with chicken or peanutbutter, then third break at 2 pm, fruit and low-fat yogurt. then i've had around 500 calories. then i get home around 4 pm have something light to eat, soup or something. and a banana or another fruit (i eat a banana cause it really keeps me satisfied for a long time, while i could eat 10 oranges and still be hungry). then i go out or something do things differente every day then i go to the gym at 6, 7 or 8 pm, i stay there usually for two hours. i weightlift (bodypump which is weightlifting only, no cardio) twice a week. i do cardio 5 hours a week, and cardio&calisthenics twice a week. i also swim about 30 mins a week. after i get home from the gym i make sure i eat something with protein, and carbs. fish or chicken and salad, also whole-grain spaghetti or brown rice but a small amount of that. and about half an hour later i'll have fruit. i end up with a defecit of 500 calories. im not sure if fitday is right about the amount of calories im burning tho. so i usually count a 700 defecit cause something's not right there. maybe i should make it 800 since i haven't improved a bit. my main food is really healthy but i also like chocolate or other snacks sometimes but i count them to my calories so i would still have a 500 defecit. thanks a lot for your help donuts :)
Hi Justme,
I was just wondering after coming across your thread a year later hehe, how has the progress been coming along? Does the calorie counting work? I am on a diet right now and I am comparing and contrasting. Waiting for your reply!
:)
Shobe
Hi Justme,
I was just wondering after coming across your thread a year later hehe, how has the progress been coming along? Does the calorie counting work? I am on a diet right now and I am comparing and contrasting. Waiting for your reply!
:)
Shobe