I have been reading this board for about a week now, and have seen how helpful you all are so I figured it was time I asked for help.

Here's abit of background, I have been sick since the end of March, It started with a leaking from in between my gums. The dentist drained it and gave me antibiotics. 5 days into the antiobotics I couldn't breathe and my ears hurt I went to my regular doc and he changed the antibiotic and put me on a steriod...I had a reaction to the steriod so I went to ER room who then diagnosed me with a sinus infection that had spread. They said to follow up with my doctor, so I went back to my docter who then again changed my antiobotic...He put me on Biaxin for 20 days, but my ears still didn't get better so he sent me to an ear, nose and throat guy, the ear nose and throat guy said I had conductive hearing loss and he thought it was due to the infection in my mouth...So back to the dentist who said the infection was gone...I knew the infection wasn't gone so my husband suggested I see his periodontist (he was just diagnosed with the diease a few months ago)

So I went to his periodonist and he diagnosed me with advanced periodontal disease last week. I was told by the periodontist that I needed scaling and root planning on the bottom, and then surgery. He said I need to loose 2 of my bottom molars...The scaling and root planning and surgery for the bottom comes to 3000.00. The implants on bottom another 6000.00 Now the top he said I could keep 6 he needs to pull my front 4 and my 4 top molars. He discussed getting partials and then implants. He said if I kept the 6 I would need a 4 bridge in the front and then sinus lift on each side the cost of this is about 28grand..He said it would be better to pull them all and get an attached denture the cost of this he said about 38grand. I told him I couldn't afford those figures and the only way I could see is keeping the 6 and doing the implants over a longer period of time..Also my top molars are not loose, but there's an infection that I've had for months on one of the right molars..My regular dentist had drained it and gave me antibiotics but the infection is still there...The periodontist said all the molars should come out even if not loose to get rid of infection, and because there's a lot of bone loss, and because he's worried because of my age that I could have a stroke by the time I'm 55. He sent me to a prosthodontist who wasn't very encouraging, I asked him if he could make the 4 teeth in the front and he said yes but question is how would they look....Huh I thought it was there job to make them look good???? Anyhow I spoke to my periodontist today and he wants to do the surgery on bottom next. I already had the scaling and root planing last week...But I told him, I needed to figure out what we're doing with the top if I'm keeping the 6 I'd rather get the scaling and root planning on them to get rid of the bacteria that is making me very sick. I feel like I'm in limbo, I don't know which way to go? My periodontist kinda sounded annoyed and said he'd have to call me back after he spoke to the prosthodontist.....

I guess I'm looking for advice here...Do these prices seem right to you? I realize I live on Long Island, NY where everything is more expensive but 38 grand for a fixed denture that will sit on top of the gums sounds steep to me..Also I just feel if I keep the 6 if something goes wrong I still have options...He said out of the 6, 4 are good 2 are questionable. But he also told my husband he had 10 questionable teeth so far he has lost one..I can't sleep or eat due to all the stress this has caused.. I was hopeing there was someone on this board who might have some advice or have been thru the same thing.

Hi, the first thing you need to do is stop being stressed out. That does not help the infection. If your gums are that infected, it seems to me you need the full gum surgery, that's when they cut the gum away, scrape and clean your roots, get rid of all the disease and sometime pack it with antibiotic when they stitche everything back together. I just had that done yesterday morning at a cost of 2100.00 (bottom only). If I were you, I would not even think about implants until I get rid of all infection, and stay infection free for a few months, or you will waste your money on implants.That root planning and scaling or what ever, I've had that done too, but it does not work for major infection. I have never heard of an infection you could not control after surgery. Has your perio. prescribed Peridex or some sort of mouth wash, that would help a lot after any scaling or gum surgery. I use mine all the time, because I have so many implants, I have to stay gum disease free. Also a lot of people wear a 4 teeth bridge in the front and are very happy with it.If you can't get rid of the infection on your molars, you may have to get them extracted in order to control the infection, but as far as I know, gum surgery should take care of the infection so you could keep these molars, especially if they are not decayed.If you have to have teeth extracted now, and cannot afford implants now, your oral surgeon could also pack the site of the extraction with syntethic bone also, so that bone won't be a problem later with placing implants. Bone graft for each tooth here runs about 300.00 per tooth. It also means your gum does not shrink after extraction. I don't know how long you can wait before having the implant placed after that bone graft, but I'm sure your surgeon can tell you. Don't let you perio. rush you. The main thing right now is to control your infection with minimum extractions if any. Maybe It's time for you to consult with another periodontist who can control the disease and for a different approach to you dental treatment. Some people take 3 years or more to get all their implants in, because of the cost. good luck Marti

Martid I had the root scaling and planning on the bottom only last week, he wants to do the surgery next on the bottom.I know about the root planning and surgery as my husband just finished his last surgery yesterday packing and all...But I think hes keeping how bad he feels from me as not to scare me. The cost of the scaling & surgery bottom only is 3000.00 with I paid already. The infection is on one of my right top molars. My reg dentist had tried to drain it 2 months ago and gave me antiobotics, but this hasn't helped...I had another scipt from my dentist so I took that, but am off now and have nothing for it. This he wants to pull, along with the other 3 top molars...My top molars are not loose but he says theres so much bone loss there, they will give me problems later on, plus he said because of my age (45) hes worried I could have a stroke by the time I'm 55. One of my front teeth are very loose and the other 3 are looseing...Each day that goes by seems they get worse... It seems he wants to finish the bottom and move on to the top, but in the meantime I still have an infection. He said if it really borthered me he would pull it soon.

This peri seems to be one of the tops on LI....I do have his website but don't think I can post it here...He has been very nice, he opened up one night to discuss the different options with me...And today my husband called him at HOME because he was worried about me...The prosthodontist set me off last Saturday when I asked him if he could make the 4 teeth in the front and he said yes but question is how would they look...Since then my imagination has been running wild, I can't eat or sleep...The peri asked my husband if I would like to talk to him, which at the time I didn't...But he told my husband to reasure me that all options we discussed were still options....and no matter what he would make me a nice smile...He said if I would like to talk to him to call him anytime, on his home or cell phone # which he gave us both.

Anyhow thanks for listening to me. Its hard for people who never went thru this to understand...It was such a shock to me to be told I needed to loose so many when I have all my teeth now except one that was lost when I was 18.

Skyla

Hi Skyla, well you have to get rid of the infection, period.. !! ----- Why can't the perio do a surgery on that top molar and clean it when you go for the bottom surgery ??. ---- I would not have the other molars pulled just because you have lost bone unless you could replace them right away with implants, especially if they don't give you any pain and are not infected.We all loose bone as we age, you are 45 and I am 52, and back molars are hard to clean and hard to floss, most people have lost bone around them and they can still function just fine in their 70's. If your top front are really loose evidently you have gum infection there too. If they have to be pulled, a bridge would work just fine at a much cheaper price than implants for right now. Your prosthodondist should do a nice job for you. The main thing is to get you gums in shape so you don't loose anymore teeth. The gum surgery is supposed to thighten your gums against your teeth so that no food will get in there. My lower 2 front were a little loose because I had so many gum surgeries and I really lost a lot of gum, but they are much stronger now. I remember a dentist wanting to pull them 12 years ago and do a bridge there but I would not let him extract them. Well, they are still there today, and no other dentists suggested I had them pulled. Did you talk to the perio, about placing bone grafts if he extracts any tooth to keep the bone in that site ??. Good luck and try to relax, and keep us posted. Marti

Thanks Marti for such a quick response. Thats exactly what I want to do is get rid of this infection it's driveing me nuts...He had said orginally that if I was older my treatment would be different. He said because of my age he was worried about stroke if I kept the molars. Besides haveing alot of bone loss on the molars, they have deep pockets and he said some had furcations. I had asked him if I could hold onto some of the molars until I could afford the implants, plus I would have someplace to eat and he said if he went up there they would abcess. I aksed him if that could be controlled and he said possibly and maybe we could keep one out of the 6. He did say when he pulls them he is going to do a bone graft. He said once in awhile we get lucky doing that and can avoid a sinus lift. By the way I just looked at my husbands bill and he charges 450.00 for a bone graft. I was actually shocked he said I could keep my lower 2 front teeth as they have alot of movement and the roots are showing but he said there is some bone down there he could work with, and the pockets there are mostly 3's 4's. I sure hope they will tighten up as I wouldn't dare try to eat on them now...They just got loose hummmm maybe 4 weeks ago....I really think stress has alot to do with it...It's funny both mine and my husbands went around the same time, we both been under alot of stress this year, with a death in the family, illness of other family memebers etc....My front top I knew about they had shifted forward quite awhile ago....So yes I'm kicking myself for that...Of cause I blamed it on money, time etc, but it was really fear. I can't have a bridge in the front, not really sure why not I'm guessing the span is to great but the only option I was given was a partical. I have a meeting with the prosthodontist on Tuesday not looking forward to it...Besides what he said I just didn't feel comfotable with him. Every thing I said he would say I hear you, but I don't really think he was listening.

Anyhow I want to thank you again, you have been very helpful so far, and tonight I was actually able to go out to dinner with my husband and parents and actually eat half a meal. If I could get a half nights sleep tonight I think I would feel a hell of alot better. I went out and bought some Vitamin C and some CoQ10, I know its no cure but maybe it will do something to help my body fight till I can get this resolved.

By the way what type of upper did you decide to go with??

Skyla

Hi Skyla, if you don't feel comfortable with that prosthodontist, go somewhere else. It's very important to feel at ease with your dentist. Why is that perio. talking about stroke ?? Do you have a medical condition.?? A large percentage of the population have gum infections and disease and do not get strokes. To answer your question, I wear an upper denture on top of my implants (nothing is attached to the implants yes) while the bone is growing around the implants.I just decided to pull every thing from the top and go with implants, instead of doing a little bit of this and a little bit of that a little fixing here or there, my upper teeth had been worked on so much through the years, they just could not be fixed anymore. My bottom teeth are in good shape. What I don't understand about your perio. is why did he do a root plan. and scal. and then turn around and have to do surgery right away. That seems to cost you another 1$1200 to $1300.00 for nothing. That's why you total cost for the surgery is 4000.00. The surgery does the same thing as the root plan. and scal. and more, so I don't get that at all. Good luck to you, things will work out and you will take care of it, it just takes time, trust me, been there, done that. Marti

Hi Marti,


Since I have been sick my Blood pressure has been on the high side..My medical doctor thinks its stress induced, and the fact that I'm not eating or sleeping much...I had an appointment with him last friday for a recheck but they cancelled on me. I'm also a smoker so I wanted to discuss a plan with him to stop smoking I certainly ain't gonna spend all this money, and let smoking ruin it. The peri took my BP at the 1st visit and it was in normal range. On my peri website it says>>>So I guess thats his reason.
Heart Disease and Gum Disease

For a long time we've known that bacteria may affect the heart. Now evidence is mounting that suggests people with periodontal disease - a bacterial disease, may be more at risk for heart disease than patients without periodontal disease. One study showed that heart disease was 25% more common in people with gum disease. Men under the age of 50 had a 75% greater risk of heart disease than men with healthy gums. Another study demonstrated that men with gum disease had twice the death rate from heart disease than men without gum disease. These studies suggest that gum disease could be a strong a risk factor for heart disease as smoking which is blamed for 40,000 heart-related deaths per year.



As far as doing the scaling I guess it saves him time to have the hygienist do the outer surfaces. The scaling and root planning took alittle less then an hour each quad. My husbands half mouth surgery took 2 1/2 hours.

Actually I was curious as to what your finial restoration would be, seperate implants, fixed denture or removable.

It sounds like you have found a great peri and your treatments are working. I wish you continued good luck.



Skyla

Gum disease and heart disease are correlated. Correlations do not necessarily indicate cause-and-effect relationships. To say that gum disease causes heart disease/strokes/etc. is not correct. I'd disregard the stroke scaremongering and get a third opinion (esp. since the dentist's and the periodontist's opinions seem to diverge a lot).

Hi Skyla, many studies suggests that it is not gum disease that causes heart problems but they found that a greater percentage of people who have gum disease have a tendency to have a poor diet and lack of exercice than people without gum disease, while people with healty gums have a tendency to eat a better diet, (no soda, no smoking, no junk food) and exercice more, so that explains why they are not as much risk of having heart problems. I do not believe gum disease causes heart problems but the things that may lead to gum disease may cause other health problems.Some people hear about one study and run with it, I prefer to check all sides of the story. As far as quitting smoking, that would help your infection a great deal, and would help control the gum disease. I was smoking until feb. 02 this year, smoke for 30 yrs, and since I had so many implants placed feb. 03, I never had another cig. since, did not use patch, pills or anything except the will power. I wrote a check for $19,000.00 that day to my perio. for my implants, and was not going to waste my money by smoking and taking a chance of my implants failing. Talk about a deterrant (spell). As far as my restoration, I don't know what I am going for yet. I have a few months to decide. My prosthodontist had enough implants placed by the perio so that I could go either way, removable or fixed. The fixed restoration, bridge with crowns is twice as expensive as the fixed, unless I go out of the country to do it, which I probably will do. Take care, Marti

Hi Marti,
That all makes sense to me.

But I guess the furcations don't help my molars either :(...


Congrats on your quittin smokeing...I think thats gonna be a big challenge for me considering the stress I'm under right now.

Do you know anyone who has either fixed or removeable??? I only know someone who had there molars done so those as I understand it feel more like your own teeth. I was just wondering how real either a fixed or removeable feel since they sit on top of the gums.

Skyla

Hi Skyla. First of all, whatever you get in your mouth, fixed or removable, it will NEVER feels like your own teeth at first. But after a while, wearing what ever you choose will seem like part of you and you will get used to it, even a conventional denture. I am definitely getting the fixed bridge with crowns to replace my bottom molars. This is where he placed the implants last thursday. They won't be ready for anywhere 6 to 9 months. I'm in no hurry. I am willing to wait as long as it takes, and get the bone strong around the implants before I put the crown on them and use them. I know someone who has had all their bottom teeth extracted at the bottom, have 5 implants and wear an upper denture anchored to a bar attached to the 5 implants. She seem to be satisfied with that, and evidently it works really well, it does not move, and she gets to remove it herself and it's easy cleaning around the implants (you have to clean them just like your teeth) and the overdenture. when you have the fixed bridge attached to the implants, it costs twice as much as the bar and overdenture and is much more difficult to clean under the bridge. Takes special tools and care. I guess It's a matter of choice. Also the overdenture attached to the bar has much less hardware (compare to a fixed bridge with 14 crowns attached with many, tiny screws that could brake and fall off) so I think less hardware, the less can go wrong.I don't mean that fixed bridge are automatically a bad choice, this is just my own opinion. The overdenture attached to the bar is much stonger also than the bridge, that I have read studies that seem to suggest that. Actually the overdenture is much like a bridge since there is no plastic palate to it, just teeth and a little plastic gums. Any way ,whatever you choose, there will be maintenance, and at first it won't feel like real teeth., but they will be stronger than natural teeth, they cannot decay, and they will become part of your body. Some people get crowns or veneers and are not pleased because they don't feel like their teeth used to. Hope that answered some of your questions. Marti

Thanks Marti,
Any info is helpful as I am very early into this. I guess it's so hard for me as I am coming from a full mouth of teeth (well missing one). I can see problems with both I guess...My peri had given me a little booklet about implants and that had said the removeable still has movement. I'm still so scared, maybe even more so now. I'm thinking of keeping the 6 on top he said I could keep incase of some sort of failure. This way if something goes wrong I could always go with the partial. I'm not sure yet if I'm a candidate for replaceing the 4 front with a bridge type implant and the back molars with seperate implants. If I did that and lost any of the 6 later on not sure if it would be a problem peri said no...All the prosthodontist said about that was then he'd have to redo the whole thing...I guess I don't understand that as I'm thinking they could just put in a seperate implant there. Like I said earlier it seems there pushing me to get rid of teeth that still have life. Anyhow I have an appointment with the prosthodontist tonight and am scared to death of what hes gonna say.

I thank you once again, I know no-one who has been through any of this except for one person who had her back molars done and those are in the gum so there more like real teeth. I wish I could keep my 6 and do that. It would probably cost the same but I'm not sure its possible in my case or how strong it would be, or how it would look. You have been very helpful and must have the patience of a saint.

Skyla

Hi Skyla, the removable can't move, it's attached to a gold bar with many attachments, and the bar is attached to 6 or more implants. I have never read anywhere that it moves at all. You should ask him exactly where he got that information. You should keep the teeth that are sound and have your dentist work around them. Natural are always better than anything else. Remember dentists can be wrong, and sometimes if you go to multiple dentists you get multiple opinions and treatment plans.It's your mouth and your money, tell what you want and expect. I am sure you will make the right choice, Keep me posted and good luck to you, Marti

Hi Marid,
Well I went to the prosthodontist last night, he was very nice. We basically talked about just the option of keeping the 6 which he says aren't that great. I told him my fears of if the implants didn't take and I pulled the 6 I would have no choice but to wear a denture. He said he could understnd this. So we talked about doing an implant in the front. I have alot of bone loss and tissure loose there but he said if the peri could build it up he could make a beautiful front. He said he would use 2 implants for the 4 front as it would look cosmetically nicer but it wouldn't be as strong....So yet another discussion...I'm so trying to be as informed as I can....This is so hard.

Now if went with the full upper. My peri thought I might be able to get by without doing a sinus lift if we cantilevered one back tooth, but the prosthodontist said if we did that I wouldn't really be able to really chew on it...So if I went with the full fixed, with the sinus lift that would bring the cost up to between 50-58 grand...

Thanks for listening to me and my fears
Skyla

the removable can't move, it's attached to a gold bar with many attachments, and the bar is attached to 6 or more implants. I have never read anywhere that it moves at all.
The booklet he gave me says A 2nd option involves placeing four to six implants, depending on your jaw size or shape. After healong is complete, the implants are connected with a custom made support bar, allowing the denture to to snap firmly into place. This is called an overdenture. The advantage of this option is that it is much more stable then the first option, allowing very little denture movement. Your denture will still be removable for easy cleaning and maintence.

So I guess I got confused with the 1st option as thats not stable...Not hard to confuse me these days LOL...But it does say very little movement.

Hi Skyla, candilevered is not a good thing to do with implants. That option 2 you mentioned from the book is half the price of the full fixed implant supported bridge (the one you can't remove). Also I don't see why a 4 teeth fixed bridge in the front anchored to 2 implants would not be strong. I could see if it was the back molars, but the front should not be a problem as long as he picks the right size implants. It also depends on how deep he can place the implants in the bone, because if I'ts not deep anough because the bone is too thin, they you would have a problem later. Where are the 6 teeth you have left located ?? Also what state do you live in ??. There are great implants clinics that specialize in fixing the problem you have in PA, also in Florida. I guess because of the older population, they seem to have loys of good implant specialists. Sorry you have such a hard decision to make. I know what you are going through, I was in the same boat, but I choose to pull all my uppers, because I did not want to spend so much for implants and keep some of my teeth which later may give me problems and end up having to be pulled and then I would have to re-do the whole restoration again by adding more implants. It was a hard decision, but I'm glad I at least made the decision and went for it, right or wrong. I'm sure you will also make yours. Is your husband being helpful with your problems and decision making. My husband just always says OK honey, I'm glad you decided to do that, so that helped. I just hope that my implants will take and that I at least will be able to chew ans smile for the next 20 yrs.I'm 52 now. If they fail, well I guess I'll just go to a full upper denture. That's what I wear now while the bone grows around the implants (I hope !!), and it's ok, I'm not crazy about it, but it fits well, I just hate the plastic palate. That is the part that is hard for me to get used to. Good luck and chat with you later. Marti

That option 2 you mentioned from the book is half the price of the full fixed implant supported bridge (the one you can't remove).
This option I don't fully understand yet. Do you take them out to sleep? What does the underside an upperside of your gums look like? Does plastic sit on your gums like a denture?

Also I don't see why a 4 teeth fixed bridge in the front anchored to 2 implants would not be strong.
The prosthodontist said I couldn't bite down on the middle front teeth, I'd have to eat more to the side. Which where the implant would be going is where I have the most bone and gum loss.

Where are the 6 teeth you have left located ??
My eye teeth and the 2 in back of that on both sides.

Also what state do you live in ??.
I'm on Long Island, NY.

Sorry you have such a hard decision to make. I know what you are going through, I was in the same boat, but I choose to pull all my uppers, because I did not want to spend so much for implants and keep some of my teeth which later may give me problems and end up having to be pulled and then I would have to re-do the whole restoration again by adding more implants. It was a hard decision, but I'm glad I at least made the decision and went for it, right or wrong. I'm sure you will also make yours.
Thank you so much for your kindness. Thats one of the problems just to replace the 4 front, back teeth and sinus lifts I'm getting an estimate of 35,300.00 To do the whole top the estimate is 58,450.00, big difference. The bottom with the surgery, and replaceing 3 molars is 9,000.00. It's scarey knowing I could have to re-do this, but its also an unknown how long the 6 will last...35 grand would be very hard for us to come up with but 58 could put us in serious trouble.

Is your husband being helpful with your problems and decision making. My husband just always says OK honey, I'm glad you decided to do that, so that helped.
My husband tells me he can't make the decision. There are days that the money freaks me out and I tell him why should I go thru all this, the stress, surgerys, and money I'll just go with the partial. And he tells me he wants me to be happy that I won't be happy with that..I been driving him nuts...I wake up after sleeping an hour shakeing, then it takes me hours to clam down..I'm not eating much. I still have this infection and I feel just awful. I'm not like this, so besides it being hard on me its hard for him to watch. I normally handle things very well, and keep my problems to myself, I even feel funny about talking about all this in a public board like this. I'm actually getting to the point where as much as I don't want to I might need something to help me. I have a drs appt today and I might talk to him about it. Not sleeping and all this stress can't be good for my teeth.

I just hope that my implants will take and that I at least will be able to chew ans smile for the next 20 yrs.I'm 52 now. If they fail, well I guess I'll just go to a full upper denture. That's what I wear now while the bone grows around the implants (I hope !!), and it's ok, I'm not crazy about it, but it fits well, I just hate the plastic palate. That is the part that is hard for me to get used to. Good luck and chat with you later.
Oh Marti I so hope after everything you been thru they take. Have you had any bone growth? I think that would be my problem also the plastic part, as I have a very bad gag reflex. My dad is the same way he has dentures and hardly wears them due to this

How are you feeling, I hope better since your surgerys.

By the way a few people have told me that the money spent on this could be written off on your taxes. Do you have any knowledge of this?

Thanks again for your kindness and support.

Skyla

Hi Skyla. You need to relax. It won't help to be all upset. Remember you can do all that in phases an take up to 3 years.Some people take longer. Don't just go with the 1st periodontist and orthodontist you have seen. Get a couple of second opinions. Some specialists do not charge for consultation. You probably will only get one shot at this because of the financial cost. How far are you from Fort washington Pennsylv. There are great implants prosthodontists there. I wish I could go there, but it's a little far from me. Also I find that if you go to a place where the do many implants restorations per year, sometimes they charge less because that is all they do. The option 2 you mentioned is just like a long bridges has the plastic gums just like the dentures, but no roof, and very little gum to it, and I don't see why you could not sleep with it since it does not cover the top of your mouth and it is attached, but I don't know about that. So compared to dentures it's like conventional dentures are the volkswagen, overdenture attached to the gold bar is the cadillac, and the fixed bridge with porcelain crowns (the kind only your dentist takes off) is the mercedes, that's why is twice as much money. I look at it that way. They even make an overdenture attached to a gold bar with a lock on it, it's called a slant lock overdenture, so when you lock it ain't coming out. That one is more expensive than the regular overdenture that is attached to the bar, but cheaper than the bridge with porcelain crowns. But like I said that last one has many screws to it, and scares me. I'm just afraid that I won't be able to clean it up and mess up my implants. The 58000.00 estimate he gave you must be for the fixed bridge. Believe me, when I'm all done, I'll be close to that, because I just got more implants placed last week to replace my bottom back teeth with either individual crowns on implants, or 2 small fixed bridges on implants. By the way, yes the bone is growing just fine on the first set of implants, shows really good on the x-rays, plus I had some gum grafts done also last week to cover 2 exposed roots that were sensitive, and the grats came out just great, he did that without charging me since he was already doing gum surgery and placing implants. I just love that guy, he is really good at what he does. Wish I had him 20 years ago instead of a dentist removing way too much gum when he did my perio. surgery. I guess too late to cry now. Also yes it is all tax deductible except for a small percentage, I won't get to deduct the first 8000.00 but the rest is, as long as you are replacing teeth, by whatever method, it is not considered cosmetic surgery. That is why I am going to try to max out this year to get a better deduction. I'll save about 30% of the total cost, since we are about in that bracket. Big saving to us, also my dentist gives me a 7 % discount for paying cash. Most all of them do if you ask.And I got about 2000.00 back from my insurance. Hope that helped a little. I was also pondering if I should spend that much money on my mouth, but I was getting ready to buy a new car, so I won't now and there are also other things I cut back. I clean my own pool now, take care of my own yard, do not smoke anymore, so I will eventually make up the cost. Where there is a will, there is a way. Chat with you later. Marti

Hi Marti,
I know I need to relax easier said then done. As far as taking 3 years, don't know f I could handle that long of not knowing what the outcome would be and liveing with denture or partical. Thanks for the great info.

Thats wonderful to hear the bone is growing, I'm so happy for you. And the gum graft wow amazeing.

Keep me posted on your progress.

Talk soon,
Skyla

Hi Skyla,
You definitely need to have the infection cured before you get any permanent work done. It doesn't seem like the antibiotics haven't helped too much, and they really wouldn't once the periodontal disease is this established. Try rinsing your mouth out with hot salt water and then mouthwash. As for heart problems, people with chronically infected mouths can develop what is called a focal infection. This means that the infection in your mouth spreads to another part of your body. For some reason, the heart is one of the first organs to become infected. Something similar to this happened to my mother's cousin, and she nearly died from it. She had a heart attack in her mid 20s, and a lot of her heart tissue is dead from the infection. They eventually traced the cause of the infectionback to some dental work that she had as a kid. Some bacteria got trapped in her jaw and spread from there.
Definitely get the periodontal disease cured before anything else.

Hey Skyla, hang on to as many teeth as you can. There is some great research being done in Texas, and it has already been tried out,( phase 1 that is), and it works for a great percentage of people used in the research, (I wish I was used in the research) and they are getting ready to start phase II clinical trial. They use your own cell to grow something (whatever it is , it is your own), and then iapply to or inject in your body (don't know where, I assume the mouth area), and it is used to regrow jaw bone and gum tissue. Sounds exciting and promising for people who are in danger of loosing their teeth due to perio. dis. and bone loss. The also use the same technique to reproduce your own collageen, and diminish wrinkles. I saw before and after treatments pictures of people in the research, looks fantastic. Also works great for bad scars, like burn scars. Could be on the market, if approved by the FDA, in a couple of years. I know that they have been working on regrowing teeth in england. Don't know how that is going, but I am positive that our children problably will never have to wear denture or bridges. I'm just an eternal optimist !!! Just thought I would give you a few good news to cheer you up. Marti

Hi Martid,
I'm sorry I haven't written in awhile...Thank you for your support it means more to me then you know....The last few weeks have been hell on me....I was going to a reg gp doc who saw me for 5 mins 3 times, didn't seem to care that I wasn't sleeping or eating...The last time I was there I asked him for something natural to sleep and calm my nerves...Instead of that he said, I can't believe your teeth would be causeing you so much stress...He wanted me on BP meds and gave me samples of some SSRI drug....I took the BP meds as my BP was very high in his office....My husband was with me and told him how my BP was normal in the peri office and readings at CVS drugstore.....He basically said well I didn't see it....

Anyhow I took the BP meds as I was scared, well I felt awful on them, and everyday the side effects got worse....I called another doc for an appointment....She sat with me for 45 mins, understood how I was scared over my teeth...Her concern was to get me sleeping again....She gave me 2 scipts for 2 things to try to sleep, wanted to give me a scipt for xanax ( as they had given me that when I went to ER, they gave me 12 2 months ago and I still had 1) I declined that...She said stay on the BP meds and take my readings at home....Well 3 more days at home on them I was just getting worse, and my bp readings were almost normal at home...I couldn't sleep on the BP meds at all even with the sleeping pills (this is one of the side effects from the pill) So I called my new doc, as you can't just stop these pills...She told me how to wean off and wanted to see me in the office this past monday...I went to see her monday, my BP was high in the office, but she looked at my log and said you know your not in the danger zone...She believes I have white coat sydrome...She took me off BP meds, told me to montiar my readings at home, but not to get obcessive over it...She gave me a script of Xanax and told me to take when I feel stressed, or going to the dentists office....She understands my fear or so she says she has fear of the dentist LOL....So far I have taken a half pill of the xanax....I'm sleeping but waking up alot during the night, my Bp readings have been ok, some a bit higher when I'm stressed but not alot out of the normal range, when I'm calm there below normal go figure LOL....

Monday I have an appt with the peri to discuss what we're going to do...I'm scared of cause but I know it has to be done.....I hope all is moving along smoothly for you....

Thanks for reading,
Skyla

Hey Skyla, what happened today at the Doc.'s. You should be able to feel more relaxed once you know what options you have, and when you have a clear goal with your dental plan. I hope the news were not as bad as you expected, in anycase, take your time and hang in there, you will get through this you'll see. Marti

Hi
If I were you, I would get a consultation with another periodontist...I am also supposed to see one, but have not made an appt yet... I am to have the deep scaling and root planing done, but my dentist told me that they usually wait 3 months after that to see if you need gum surgery...He seems to be rushing you along without giving anything a chance to heal, and now you have already paid for work that you didnt have done yet..
Will the perio pull the teeth he said needs to come out, or do you have to go to an oral surgeon? Hope you are feeling better!

Hi Martid,
Well I don't feel any better and have no more info then I did when I went today....Basically he said the front 4 and the back molars have to go....He said it would be cheaper for me in the long run to pull the whole top....Because 4 of the 6 I can keep will not last my lifetime...If I pull the whole whole top it's a 2 year process...The front will take 4months, but then theres the problem with the sinus lift that adds the time....One side for sure needs the lift, the other might not...I asked him if we kept one side molars so I always have someplace to eat, he said he wouldn't advise that, theres just to much bone loss...I have lost 20lbs so far so was afraid about eating....I asked him if we did the front in 4 months, and the other side would take 4 months,atleast I'd have a side to eat on....He asked then what would you do for a restortation...How would I know...So now I'm punted back to the prosthodontist to discuss restorations....He's also still saying the cantelever would work and I could avoid the sinus lifts, but I really don't feel comfortable with that I want to be able to eat on it without worrying. Hope all that made sense as I'm still confused. I'm really kinda disapointed as I was hoping doing it with keeping the 6, I could have the implants under the gum instead of sitting on top of the gum...

Hi Nance,
Yes I'd like to get another consultation(if only for a price difference), problem is the guy I'd like to go to see is friends with the periodonist...I think hes rushing into the surgery because of my bone loss...Yes the perio will pull the teeth, and do bone grafting when he does pull them....But I'm getting a price that seems unreal. Thank you for your well wishes, please let us know how your making out...

Skyla

Hi Skyla, did you ever get rid of that infection yet ??. You don't sound as if you are quiet ready to have all you upper pulled either. The cost for every thing you mentioned earlier is about right. As a matter of fact, be prepared to spend even more than that for a complete implant restoration. Believe me I know I have been there. If you are not ready to spend the money to restore the whole thing yet, why pull your molars if they don't hurt or if they are not the cause of the infection. If you've lost a lot of bone already, so what. Keep them to chew on until you have to have them pulled, (if they don't hurt), if you go for implants, wether it' now or later, they will have to bone grafts anyway. Almost alway happens. As far as the four in the front, if you do not like to look of them, why not just have a regular bridge to replace these four, as long as the two next to them are strong anough to anchor the bridge. Most people are perfectly happy with their bridge. You may want to replace it with implants later in life, it won't be too late then. As a matter of fact, they do have and use implants nowadays that are long enough so that the patient does not need the very expensive sinus lifts (mine was about 4000.00). But this thechnology is still new and it takes a very skilled and experienced implant guy to do this, but it is absolutely possible. If you have to pull your molars, you can either get bridges to replace them, but most people do not like the bridges to replace molars, or you can start with your implants in that area. One implants can replace two molars providing the dentist knows what he is doing. You can have one implant anchoring a 2 teeth-bridge attached to the natural tooth next to it. That is the cheapest solution. If you can do that for each side, on top 2 implants supporting 2 2teeth-bridge, that should run no more than 5500.00 for the 2 bridges( not counting the implants posts and any bone grafts or extractions). Is this clear as mud LOL. It's easy for me because I have been thru all that already, reviewing all options, but at least that would take care of your top. Of course you still have to keep all gum disease or infection under control or you will end up wasting money. If it were me, I would have that infection under control before I do any restoration just to make sure I can keep it under control and then go ahead and decide what route to take, unless of course the teeth themselves are causing the infections, and in that case you would have no choice but to extract, that is why a second opinion is always important, sometimes maybe even a 3rd when someone suggests pulling as many teeth as this guy suggests. Hope you feel better Marti

Hi Marti,
I'm sure the infection is probably still there, the peri had seen it in the xrays..It hasn't been leaking, but sometimes feels more swollen, or I get a taste, which could be that theres a wisdom tooth comeing in next to it...The peri has done nothing for the infection says when it comes out....For all I know it could be a dieing tooth as it is deformed has been my whole life. the tooth has never hurt, only the swelling hurt, and its never had an outside visable boil, lump. I'm thinking it could be a dieing tooth because it felt like something was stuck between the teeth, I used a proxi brush and I had a bad taste....Then the proxi brush broke apart and some of the bristles got stuck between the tooth, The very next day it blow up and started to leak....So I'm not sure if I caused it,or what...I'm not saying theres not infection under the gum, from peri disease, but just seems like more to this tooth...

"You don't sound as if you are quiet ready to have all you upper pulled either. The cost for every thing you mentioned earlier is about right. As a matter of fact, be prepared to spend even more than that for a complete implant restoration."
Well I was hoping to save the 6....And actually it looks like if I pull the whole top with sinus lift price so far is over 50 grand.(everything hasn't been added into the 50 grand price yet so probably more) If I keep the 6 with sinus lifts the price of the top is about 35grand....that is a big difference.


As far as not pulling the molars, the peri says, the furcations and bone loss so great he will never be able to clean them totally, and if I decide to keep them even for alittle while it can jeopardize the other implants and if it fails then I should bare some of that burden...meaning he won't pay all for another try. The teeth in the front do have to go the prosthodontist price for this is 7900.00 and for any single tooth would be 2000.00.....Verus he would get 25 grand for the whole top big difference....I just want to do whats best, and the longer this is going on the scarer I'm getting.....Yes I'm worried about the money also, but my husband keeps telling me not to, he wants me to be happy...I think my main concern is the outcome more then anything, Like I said I was hopeing that if I kept the 6 the implants could be placed under the gums...I know to some this many not sound like a big deal but I was hopeing they would feel and look more like mine and be easier to clean....I have been so self conscious for so many years, that I was hoping not to be once this is done....You see I also have a very high smile and I'm afraid that if the implants sit on the gums it will be seen.....

Anyhow thanks once again, you have no idea how helpful you have been to me.

Skyla

Hey Skyla, I'm glad to see that you are getting things under control, even if it does not seem like it to you, seems like it to me. I sounds like your hubby is great also and in his own way is helpful by letting you pick your treatment. That's a big big plus. You are heading in the right direction by questioning your doctors about the treatment they propose and that's a good sign. Stay involved and don't give up, if you don't understand what their plan or goals are, just keep asking them. Would be a good thing if you did research on implants (there are plenty sites to do research on) so you know what your doc. is talking about. You don't want surprises. Get a second opinion, that's important, i've been getting opinions for the past 4 years before I took the plunge. And it's important to have faith in the dentist you pick. Good luck to you Marti

Thanks for the support Marti altho I don't feel like I am making any progress. I have been asking about the treatment all along and still don't have one...I wish I had 4 years to research this LOL...I have been researching on the internet, but seems to me there aren't many options unless I'm looking in the wrong places...If I have the time to go for a 2nd opinion what do I bring? I have my x-rays on my computer LOL...also have paper ones that aren't very good...I have a paper with all the pockets listed and how loose a tooth is...Not sure if I should give to much info ya know....

I hope you are enjoying your weekend,
Skyla

Hi Skyla, with that much work, you really should have a 2nd opinion. Having your x-rays on the computer is good, but I'm sure the dentist will want his own set. Just see what the 2nd opinion dentist suggests. Some implants docs. don't charge for a consultation. You have to check around. Do you live in a fairly large city ?? Makes it easier when you have a choice of doctors. Just keep you good spirits up, you'll get there. Just takes time when there is that much money involved. If it were just fillings and root canals, would be so much more simple. Good luck Marti

Hi martid,
Yes I know I should have a 2nd opinion. Problem is time is somethin I really don't have, while I'm waiting I'm afraid my choices will get less and less....This all started end of March and I can tell my teeth are getting worse....I live in the burbs, and I also don't drive, also I want my husband there for consults as when I'm nervous I might forget some of what they say....It's takes so long just getting appts with these guys...I honestly don't know how long my nerves will hold out..You know sometimes the waiting and wondering is worse then getting the work done....

So I shouldn't bring the page with the pocket depths? I'd hate to have that done again when the peri did it last time the roof of my mouth swelled up for 3 days...And now my bottom molars seem worse to me, seems like the crown on one is lifted up more.....

Thanks for your support,
Skyla

Hey Skyla, yes you should bring every thing you have to your appointment, but just don't tell him what the 1st doc. has suggested for a treatment plan. Let that new Doc. tell you what he recommends. Marti

Hi Skyla, I just read your long list of posts. I have similar problems to yours but without the symptoms. I found out in May that i have severe perio disease and need a minimum of 6 teeth pulled plus all the other stuff. I have been going crazy. I have been going to the same dentist 2x per year for cleanings for at least 20 years. Never said a word to me about any of this stuff. Tomorrow i am going for a root canal in one tooth that i might be able to save. I am hoping the root canal will not be wasted and the tooth pulled later anyway. In three weeks i am scheduled to have 6 molars pulled (4 of them wisdom teeth) and after that my perio is going to do all the cleanings, etc to see what other teeth might respond and be saveable. The first perio i went to wanted to pull 8 teeth to start. My pockets are very deep but i have never heard of pockets before May! (many 10-14 mm which i have been told is impossible to cure by at least one dentist)
I will be watching your story with interest as the timing is so like mine. I cannot get any of the dentists to tell me if this is something my original dentist should have known about. They say it is possible that it could have happened quickly. I do not smoke or do any other bad things other than a love for chocolate. I am totally devestated by the news. One day I had great teeth (they look and felt great to me) and the next I find out about all this stuff going on and the need to pull so many. I definitely feel for you too. Good luck

Hi Lateeth, all I can say is that pockets that deep do not happen overnight. I find it outrageous that your hygienist and dentist missed that. Did they do a prob. at every cleaning (measure around each tooth). Mine does check every time i'm in to have my teeth cleaned. I am pretty sure they are also too deep for antibiotics to be injected in them, and I'm afraid root plan. and scal. won't help anything that deep and if your perio thinks she can, then she must be really good, otherwise gum surgery will take care of it. I wonder if they did not check it because it is mainly your wisdom teeth. Sometimes they are very hard to clean. I don't know about the legality of it, but it would be hard to find a dentist who will go against another. Good luck with your treatment Marti

Hi Martid,
Well I went to see the prosthodontist last night. He was very nice. We talked about me keeping the 6, he didn't push that I pull them. All he said is that if I loose one of the 6 he'd have to rework or redo the back. Since its not attached to the front it would only be 1 or 2 back molars involved.(depending how many the peri can place)..I just hope I'm not making a mistake in keeping the 6..... I told him how bad my gag reflex is so for a temp restortation in front hes gonna give me as little material as he can on the roof of my mouth. He also said that if we only do 2 implants in the front instead of the 4 even tho 4 would be more secure he could make them look real. His price for keeping the 6 is 10grand less then if I pulled them. He also has a few payment plans that sounded good. Like he said he had a 1 year loan thru this co with no interest for that year. I asked him if we paid up front if I would get a discount and he said yes 5%...He said I could even take out the one year loan, pay him with it and he'd give me the 5%...

Now I have to go back to the peri to discuss how this will progress...My only problem is how will I eat LOL....the prosthodontist said you can't eat on it once the implants are placed which I understand but if the peri not letting me leave one side of my molars in till the other is done that will mean both the 4 front, molars on the top and bottom will have implants all at the same time...I can get by a few weeks with hardy eating...But 9 months??? I also don't like ice cream LOL....I also want to try to get an another opinion maybe another peri will let me keep molars while the other side worked on....

Lateeth, I just read your post and I'm so sorry you have to go thru all this...Like martid I also find it outrageous. Didn't your dentist take yearly x-rays I would think if your pockets weren't measured he would have seen the bone loss on an x-ray....Like I said I was told I have servere peri disease, but for me its my fault I haven't been going to a dentist reg. And up until April I didn't have a clue. Even with my servere peri I don't have any pockets that measure that deep I would think that would be hard to miss on an x-ray. I also think it would be hard to prove, but if you did have x-rays taken last year you could ask for the set. You don't have to tell him why, you could just say now that he's retireing you'd like to have a set to give to your new dentist so you don't have to pay to take them again...Good luck to you, let us know how your doing.

Hi Skyla, so the prosth. is going to do a bridge in the front using 2 implants to replace 4 teeth, did I get this right ?? That sounds ok to me. Did you ask him for before and after pictures of his patients with IMPLANTS that HE restored at least 3 yrs previous ??. I hope you did skyla, because you are going to spend some money with him. I know it's hard to ask the doc. for that info, but tell hime you only have one chance at this because of the cost, plus he should be proud to show pictures of patients unless he has something to hide. Once they put the implants there, they have to give you a temporary bridge since it's the front, and I don't see why you could not bite down on it. Now they may not put tempory crowns or bridge in the back on the back implants, so it will be difficult to eat, but you can manage for a while, just think about that great new smile you will have when it's over, that should motivate you. Well, you definitely are getting closer to that new smile, keep me posted on what's going on. You will do OK once you start the treatment, I'm sure of it. But do some checking of the doc. Chat with you later Marti

Hi Marti,
Yes you got that right 2 implants for a 4 teeth bridge in the front(unless the peri feels it needs more)...And if possiable 2 implants for the each side of molars. The bottom will need 2 if possiable on right side and 1 on the left since I have been missing a molar there since I'm 16, he said the molar thats on the left is ok...He said he could make temp's attached somehow to the front bridge if I was uncomfortable, but if he made ones for the bottom I wouldn't be happy with them...

I'm confused about the eating part LOL...The prost said it would take 9 months...of course I think it will be more since he didn't include the 2 surgerys before hand I will need....How do u eat for 9 months with implants? On all 4 sides & in the middle? And I'm afraid If I don't eat "REAL FOOD" for that long I won't get proper nutrition. My next step is supposed to make an appt with the peri and tell him how I want to precude....He won't go for my idea so I'm clueless...

OK you can slap me, no I didn't ask to see pics :(...I meant to, but had taken up so much of his time and he had a guy in the chair LOL that I felt bad ( also forgot to ask about teeth whiteing)...But I had however been reseaching other peri's in the area, and on this one website there were testimonials so I read them...And this lady left her email so I wrote her....What was funny is I had been referred to him(the prosth.) by my peri and already had an appt set up, when this lady wrote me back and said if I needed to go to a prosth to see him....She said he was expensive but worth it...She raved about him...Actually she said more about him then she did about the peri I had asked her about....She had a full top and bottom done by him over 2 years ago and says she can eat anything and loves them...

Talk soon,
Skyla

Hi both of you out there. I just read your post Skyla. I am not sure of how financing works for dental stuff but i have a daughter going to college soon so i have been looking into financing that and it seems that home equity loans have the best rates around.(even better it sounds like then the ones which are subsidized by the govt for college now). Here in LA I can get a loan for 4% interest. I don't know if you own a house or not but you might check into it. The catch is that if you pay it down beyond a certain amount they start charging more. So I was thinking, why not take the larger amount and then when ready, pay it all at once in the meantime making payments to yourself at a higher interest rate. (rates are going up in the bank and a cd is paying almost that much already) Of course, only do this if you are a disciplined saver and can refrain from touching the money for something else.
I had my root canal yesterday and now that tooth feels great. My perio has not started work yet but she is a professor at a famous university here in LA with a specialty in microbiology as well as a dentist on their faculty so I figure she knows all about these nasty bugs we have in our mouths. She thinks a good deep scraping and cleaning several times over may do the work instead of surgery and is reserving that for later on if it does not work. She is also willing to try to save as many of my teeth as possible. I am putting my faith in her. If my gums respond she thinks she may be able to shrink these deep pockets enough and I will only need to lose the teeth where the bone loss is the worst. One tooth she might have to chop off one of the three root branches as the other two look good on xray and she says is enough to keep the tooth solid if the pockets recede enough. I have heard lots of sad stories from people so I need to trust someone and she is it.(she was also my sons soccer coaches wife so I know she is nice in real life too)
No, my old dentist never probed and i never heard of it before so never asked. I also did not have xrays as 20 years ago i asked if i could get dentistry without many xrays so he never asked me. I never knew they were looking for anything but cavities above the gumlines with them. I understand that some of the older dentists are not doing the probing as this came along after they were out of school a while. I always thought my dentist was great and even recomended him to lots of friends.
Good luck to you. It sounds like you have moved pretty far along. My neighbor (who is a regular dentist as well) and my perio (who is in a private practice at the dental school) both recomended the dental clinic there if I felt regular dentists were too many $$$'s. She said she has complete faith in them and she is their professor. The type of work we need (Implants, root canals, etc) is done by post graduate students and faculty members. Prices are much lower. So if you have a recognized dental school around you might check it out. I may use them for implants as they charge $850 each there.
anyway, thanks for listening (reading)

Hi lateeth,

Yes I do own a house and we are looking into several different ways...Thanks for the info. As far as the dental schools around here I really wouldn't trust them...!st off the one I know isn't that close and 2nd both my sil, bil and niece have had problems going there. As far as me moving along I just feel like I'm going around in circles, and my nerves are worse for the wear.

Something you said I don't understand...I never heard of chopping one root branch off...Wouldn't a bone graft work better....I guess I'm confused about alot of this stuff still....

I'm glad you trust your peri and I wish you much luck :)

Keep us posted,
Skyla