EerFoolWVU
06-15-2004, 01:41 AM
I was diagnosed with ADD years ago, but never really put much worth into it. However, after reading the board tonight, I have realized, a lot of the problems that I run into are ones that are common to others with ADD.
I have much difficulty finishing things, so much that I really have to MAKE myself finish something, or I'll simply move on before I ever finish ANYTHING.
I also work in an office for Verizon in the mornings as part of an audit team. I am much more skilled than my associates, and work at a much faster pace, but I mess up the stupid little things. By this I mean like, using a wrong date, or missing a simple error. You might think thats because I work at a faster pace, but even when I slow down and try to be even more careful, I still mess things up.
I am going to go ahead and see if I can't get medicated for this in time for the fall semester at WVU. I have a feeling I'll do much better in school if I do seek some help for my ADD.
One question I have is...what is hyperfocusing? I've seen it mentioned at several different points, but have no idea what it is.
Any help would be appreciated, and thanks again!
I have much difficulty finishing things, so much that I really have to MAKE myself finish something, or I'll simply move on before I ever finish ANYTHING.
I also work in an office for Verizon in the mornings as part of an audit team. I am much more skilled than my associates, and work at a much faster pace, but I mess up the stupid little things. By this I mean like, using a wrong date, or missing a simple error. You might think thats because I work at a faster pace, but even when I slow down and try to be even more careful, I still mess things up.
I am going to go ahead and see if I can't get medicated for this in time for the fall semester at WVU. I have a feeling I'll do much better in school if I do seek some help for my ADD.
One question I have is...what is hyperfocusing? I've seen it mentioned at several different points, but have no idea what it is.
Any help would be appreciated, and thanks again!
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Redhead23
06-15-2004, 05:04 AM
Hyperfocussing is when you are so engrossed in something (reading, a project, a game, working on something) - usually something you enjoy - that you lose track of everything else around you.
apinecone
06-15-2004, 08:51 AM
I feel the same way WVU. An ironic part of tending to 'ignore' one's environment is that one tends to miss or not "get" things. I think Hallowell has a really good explanation (see his book "Driven to Distraction"). In short, your brain has difficulty 'filtering' among the various thought streams competing for its attention and tends to lose 'track' because it can't focus on them all as much as others can. It probably was losing some input information before it skipped track but also probably loses some when it skips. Then it loses information on the track it skipped from until it gets back unless it forgot where it came from, which can more easily happen if it likes the new track better (esp. if the previous track was kind of bor-ing!). Then it might have to reduce the number of tracks its working on, which is tending to hyperfocus. For example, have you ever been ice skating or skiing and just lost your balance while speeding a bit and went into a temporary super-focus while you were regaining control? If not, don't try it ;) but if so that's like hyperfocus, except I think hyperfocus is more like getting 'engrossed' or 'driven' to 'un'distraction. To stretch the skating analogy further, the distracking-retracking of ADD can go on just like in skating-- all the time, so imagine your thoughts streaking along and then * there's a dis-track-tion and then ** there's another and then maybe *********** there's a longer one. So, don't be thinking too much about how nice it would be on that south sea isle away from the daily grind while you're doing the daily grind, well too***********much! :)
apinecone
06-15-2004, 09:05 AM
When I said 'engrossed' it seemed that it was somehow different than what Redhead23 said about 'blocking', but maybe they're just different views of the same thing? I mean, you would have to 'block' certain inputs in order to pay relatively more attention to something else, wouldn't you?
Also, up to a point this might seem just 'ADD', but at some point, if you don't get re-tracked to something else and keep coming back to the given track it would seem to be 'obsessive'. It would be a difficult thing to draw a 'fine' line on what's too much, but it seems to me it's the same kind of thing. But that's the way it is with these 'disorders' and I think why they're considered to be 'spectral'-- they have a range.
Also, up to a point this might seem just 'ADD', but at some point, if you don't get re-tracked to something else and keep coming back to the given track it would seem to be 'obsessive'. It would be a difficult thing to draw a 'fine' line on what's too much, but it seems to me it's the same kind of thing. But that's the way it is with these 'disorders' and I think why they're considered to be 'spectral'-- they have a range.
Redhead23
06-15-2004, 09:57 AM
"When I said 'engrossed' it seemed that it was somehow different than what Redhead23 said about 'blocking', but maybe they're just different views of the same thing? I mean, you would have to 'block' certain inputs in order to pay relatively more attention to something else, wouldn't you?"
Where did I say anything about blocking?
I don't think hyperfocussing is a conscious
As far as obsessing vs. hyperfocussing is concerned, AFAIK hyperfocussing is when you are actually *doing* something (e.g. reading, thinking about something, playing a game, working on a hobby) at the exclusion of everything else (as in "being unaware of anything else), you hyperfocus on a given task or action, but it's more of a temporary thing (although many have certain things they know they hyperfocus on whenever they do them), e.g. you are hyperfocussing on a book that "sucked you in" and forget the time, but once you finished the book or put it down because you are tired, you are not still "stuck" on reading.
Obsessing is more *intrusive* and relates more to "not being able to stop thinking about something while you are doing [or meant to be doing] something else".
Hyperfocussing is more "being lost in thought about something, unaware of your surroundings", it can be daydreaming or staring at a pretty thing or playing a game and not hearing your Mom calling you for dinner.
Obsessing is being sat at the dinner table and not being able to talk about anything other than your obsession (or refusing to eat not because you are unaware of it being dinner time but because you "can't stop" playing), or trying to get to sleep and not being able to sleep because you can't stop thinking about something.
Of course if you hyperfocus on something for a long time (esp. if it is a negative thought) it can become "obsessing" but hyperfocus as and of itself is not a conscious or deliberate thing (although it can be welcome in many situations) and relates more to a "one-off" event (even if that lasts hours) than to a more permanent theme like with obsessions.
Where did I say anything about blocking?
I don't think hyperfocussing is a conscious
As far as obsessing vs. hyperfocussing is concerned, AFAIK hyperfocussing is when you are actually *doing* something (e.g. reading, thinking about something, playing a game, working on a hobby) at the exclusion of everything else (as in "being unaware of anything else), you hyperfocus on a given task or action, but it's more of a temporary thing (although many have certain things they know they hyperfocus on whenever they do them), e.g. you are hyperfocussing on a book that "sucked you in" and forget the time, but once you finished the book or put it down because you are tired, you are not still "stuck" on reading.
Obsessing is more *intrusive* and relates more to "not being able to stop thinking about something while you are doing [or meant to be doing] something else".
Hyperfocussing is more "being lost in thought about something, unaware of your surroundings", it can be daydreaming or staring at a pretty thing or playing a game and not hearing your Mom calling you for dinner.
Obsessing is being sat at the dinner table and not being able to talk about anything other than your obsession (or refusing to eat not because you are unaware of it being dinner time but because you "can't stop" playing), or trying to get to sleep and not being able to sleep because you can't stop thinking about something.
Of course if you hyperfocus on something for a long time (esp. if it is a negative thought) it can become "obsessing" but hyperfocus as and of itself is not a conscious or deliberate thing (although it can be welcome in many situations) and relates more to a "one-off" event (even if that lasts hours) than to a more permanent theme like with obsessions.
apinecone
06-15-2004, 09:20 PM
you lose track of everything else around you.
Sorry about that! "Lose track of everything around you" struck me me as "blocking", for some reason, and it doesn't have to be.
Also, I think your points about the difference between 'hyperfocussing' [sp?] and 'obsessing' are very good. I get the "unaware">"can't stop" and "'one-off' event>"permanent" differences more than the *doing*>*intrusive*, though, but I sort of almost get it.
Not to get into split hairs on obsession vs. hyperfocussing, obsessing seems to also relate to going over all the angles (it might take hyperfocussing to do that but not necessarily) or reacting to all aspects of (as in hypersensitivity) or whatever, but it definitely is DWELLing on ONE thing REPETITIVELY. Definitely different in the REP dep't.
But here's another difference it seems to me. It's the concept of 'I just can't get it out of my mind'. Is this a kind of obsessing, do you think? Is it a kind of hyperfocussing? When it happens to me, it's usually a one-off, esp. a song that typically has a what do they call it-- repeating melody-- it just kind of comes out of the blue like a little meteor and gets stuck like a temporary obsession for a while until it usually poof! just goes away!
What makes it somewhat different, though, is that it (quasi-...) is still ONE-of and REPetitive but more RE-active than PRO-active (obsessing). And, I have to admit, I do hum such a tune if not outright SINGIN' IN THE RAIN, I'M SINGGGIN' IN THE RAIN!!... Again, it's not to split hairs, but do you think that if I get quasi-obsessive like that, then it might NOT be OCD but more ADD? Or something else? Or both? :confused:
It seems to me that I wouldn't want to be PRO-active about eg a tune in my head unless I was a musician, but then maybe that's how musicians can do what they do, or pianists, they can be virtuoso-ally obsessed with tunes! I get the feeling like Rosanne Rosannadanna of SNL might have said: "I'm telling you: That tune just kept playing in my head over and over again until I thought I was gonna DIE! ;)
Sorry about that! "Lose track of everything around you" struck me me as "blocking", for some reason, and it doesn't have to be.
Also, I think your points about the difference between 'hyperfocussing' [sp?] and 'obsessing' are very good. I get the "unaware">"can't stop" and "'one-off' event>"permanent" differences more than the *doing*>*intrusive*, though, but I sort of almost get it.
Not to get into split hairs on obsession vs. hyperfocussing, obsessing seems to also relate to going over all the angles (it might take hyperfocussing to do that but not necessarily) or reacting to all aspects of (as in hypersensitivity) or whatever, but it definitely is DWELLing on ONE thing REPETITIVELY. Definitely different in the REP dep't.
But here's another difference it seems to me. It's the concept of 'I just can't get it out of my mind'. Is this a kind of obsessing, do you think? Is it a kind of hyperfocussing? When it happens to me, it's usually a one-off, esp. a song that typically has a what do they call it-- repeating melody-- it just kind of comes out of the blue like a little meteor and gets stuck like a temporary obsession for a while until it usually poof! just goes away!
What makes it somewhat different, though, is that it (quasi-...) is still ONE-of and REPetitive but more RE-active than PRO-active (obsessing). And, I have to admit, I do hum such a tune if not outright SINGIN' IN THE RAIN, I'M SINGGGIN' IN THE RAIN!!... Again, it's not to split hairs, but do you think that if I get quasi-obsessive like that, then it might NOT be OCD but more ADD? Or something else? Or both? :confused:
It seems to me that I wouldn't want to be PRO-active about eg a tune in my head unless I was a musician, but then maybe that's how musicians can do what they do, or pianists, they can be virtuoso-ally obsessed with tunes! I get the feeling like Rosanne Rosannadanna of SNL might have said: "I'm telling you: That tune just kept playing in my head over and over again until I thought I was gonna DIE! ;)
Redhead23
06-16-2004, 04:20 AM
Sorry about that! "Lose track of everything around you" struck me me as "blocking", for some reason, and it doesn't have to be.
Also, I think your points about the difference between 'hyperfocussing' [sp?] and 'obsessing' are very good. I get the "unaware">"can't stop" and "'one-off' event>"permanent" differences more than the *doing*>*intrusive*, though, but I sort of almost get it.
LOL no losing track, by any definition I've ever come across, has nothing to do with deliberation (well, as much as losing your keys or losing patience is done on purpose!). You become unaware or forget about everything else when you lose track. Blocking out on the other hand is deliberate, e.g. putting earplugs in or putting the shutters down to block out noise and light etc.
But here's another difference it seems to me. It's the concept of 'I just can't get it out of my mind'. Is this a kind of obsessing, do you think?
Definitely - when you are trying to get something out of your head, but you can't, it's obsessive. With hyperfocussing, you tend not to be aware of what you are doing, e.g. you are absorbed in it, and while you may afterwards think that you wish you didn't become so absorbed in things (e.g. if you lose your job because you stare at things all day or get in late all the time), you're not trying to stop hyperfocussing while you're doing it.
What makes it somewhat different, though, is that it (quasi-...) is still ONE-of and REPetitive but more RE-active than PRO-active (obsessing). And, I have to admit, I do hum such a tune if not outright SINGIN' IN THE RAIN, I'M SINGGGIN' IN THE RAIN!!... Again, it's not to split hairs, but do you think that if I get quasi-obsessive like that, then it might NOT be OCD but more ADD? Or something else? Or both? :confused:
Everybody gets earworms every now and again, and everybody gets repetitive of obsessive thoughts occasionally. It's only when you get them frequently and they interfere with your functioning that something along the lines of OCD may be present.
Also, I think your points about the difference between 'hyperfocussing' [sp?] and 'obsessing' are very good. I get the "unaware">"can't stop" and "'one-off' event>"permanent" differences more than the *doing*>*intrusive*, though, but I sort of almost get it.
LOL no losing track, by any definition I've ever come across, has nothing to do with deliberation (well, as much as losing your keys or losing patience is done on purpose!). You become unaware or forget about everything else when you lose track. Blocking out on the other hand is deliberate, e.g. putting earplugs in or putting the shutters down to block out noise and light etc.
But here's another difference it seems to me. It's the concept of 'I just can't get it out of my mind'. Is this a kind of obsessing, do you think?
Definitely - when you are trying to get something out of your head, but you can't, it's obsessive. With hyperfocussing, you tend not to be aware of what you are doing, e.g. you are absorbed in it, and while you may afterwards think that you wish you didn't become so absorbed in things (e.g. if you lose your job because you stare at things all day or get in late all the time), you're not trying to stop hyperfocussing while you're doing it.
What makes it somewhat different, though, is that it (quasi-...) is still ONE-of and REPetitive but more RE-active than PRO-active (obsessing). And, I have to admit, I do hum such a tune if not outright SINGIN' IN THE RAIN, I'M SINGGGIN' IN THE RAIN!!... Again, it's not to split hairs, but do you think that if I get quasi-obsessive like that, then it might NOT be OCD but more ADD? Or something else? Or both? :confused:
Everybody gets earworms every now and again, and everybody gets repetitive of obsessive thoughts occasionally. It's only when you get them frequently and they interfere with your functioning that something along the lines of OCD may be present.
apinecone
06-16-2004, 09:39 AM
losing track ...has nothing to do with deliberation Blocking out on the other hand is deliberate
With hyperfocussing, you tend not to be aware of what you are doing, e.g. you are absorbed in it
Thanks, that helps clarify. I wasn't thinking of 'blocking' as necessarily deliberate. I was thinking of blocking as ignoring; that could be willful or not. I was thinking not. [I have to be more careful when dealing with 'differentiating'! Maybe esp. when differentiating.] Like I said, it's not to quibble. But I think I still don't see the difference in this respect between 'engrossed' and undeliberate. I think it's not only possible but likely that one is deliberate about being engrossed but it wouldn't necessarily be obsessive. It would be because of an inability to focus because of having a lot of noise in the mental circuits, so to speak, as in Hallowell's explanation of ADD 'driven' to distraction. One gets knocked off [a given] track and has to 'block out' things [not necessarily undeliberately] to get back on and stay on track, but one has this tendency to get knocked off track or skip tracks, and has to try to get back on track and stay on track, and so on. I can see that if the noise is not that distracting, then one could 'fall' into being engrossed-- it would almost be a form of 'relaxation', since it can take a concerted effort to 'block' the noise in order to concentrate. That's the sense of 'blocking' I had in mind. Maybe you wouldn't use that word-- OK-- would 'ignoring' be better?
Anyway, it's not the word, it's what's happening mentally that I'm trying to get at. This sense of blocking that I am trying to describe to me is what Hallowell was trying to get at , but he explains it alot better than I do. I mean, I think I see the 'syndrome', if you will, but have difficulty making it clear when trying to explain it. [I think that's because the also-related-to-ADD problem of having difficulty organizing one's thoughts and keeping them on a focused track, tends to get in the way, even if one can write it down and rework/reword it. Maybe it's that the thought chain gets somewhat chopped up and reconnected (and not necessarily well-ordered) before the whole thing gets out/done [You may have noticed this about my trying to explain what I'm thinking? :yawn: ]
Esp. I tend to get a bit lost if there are several if/then/else/not-type constructs in a concept. I can work my way thru it over time but in one fell swoop, I have difficulty, I think because of this very same problem with distractability [in the Hallowell sense]. I think I recall one time in another post you used several of those terms in close proximity and I got lost and had to kind of 'reset' and start over so much so that I had to ask you to please clarify what you meant because I couldn't get the end-resultant meaning, whatever it was [not a criticism, either of you or me, but just that in that particular usage I got snafu'd]. This is not unusual for me if a construct gets too much like that. I hate to keep asking "do you know what I mean", but I have to ask to get feedback, because of what I just told you. Ya'know what I mean, Red? :D
While in the neighborhood of 'obsessing' and 'engrossing', and not to offend, but I notice you have 'perfectionist' in you signature. Could you maybe elucidate about that re: these terms or in the sense of attention we've been discussing? It seems to me that there's at least a 'cousin' relationship in terms of 'closeness' in the term 'perfectionistic'. I would appreciate it.
Thanks in advance and thanks again for helping to clarify. :)
With hyperfocussing, you tend not to be aware of what you are doing, e.g. you are absorbed in it
Thanks, that helps clarify. I wasn't thinking of 'blocking' as necessarily deliberate. I was thinking of blocking as ignoring; that could be willful or not. I was thinking not. [I have to be more careful when dealing with 'differentiating'! Maybe esp. when differentiating.] Like I said, it's not to quibble. But I think I still don't see the difference in this respect between 'engrossed' and undeliberate. I think it's not only possible but likely that one is deliberate about being engrossed but it wouldn't necessarily be obsessive. It would be because of an inability to focus because of having a lot of noise in the mental circuits, so to speak, as in Hallowell's explanation of ADD 'driven' to distraction. One gets knocked off [a given] track and has to 'block out' things [not necessarily undeliberately] to get back on and stay on track, but one has this tendency to get knocked off track or skip tracks, and has to try to get back on track and stay on track, and so on. I can see that if the noise is not that distracting, then one could 'fall' into being engrossed-- it would almost be a form of 'relaxation', since it can take a concerted effort to 'block' the noise in order to concentrate. That's the sense of 'blocking' I had in mind. Maybe you wouldn't use that word-- OK-- would 'ignoring' be better?
Anyway, it's not the word, it's what's happening mentally that I'm trying to get at. This sense of blocking that I am trying to describe to me is what Hallowell was trying to get at , but he explains it alot better than I do. I mean, I think I see the 'syndrome', if you will, but have difficulty making it clear when trying to explain it. [I think that's because the also-related-to-ADD problem of having difficulty organizing one's thoughts and keeping them on a focused track, tends to get in the way, even if one can write it down and rework/reword it. Maybe it's that the thought chain gets somewhat chopped up and reconnected (and not necessarily well-ordered) before the whole thing gets out/done [You may have noticed this about my trying to explain what I'm thinking? :yawn: ]
Esp. I tend to get a bit lost if there are several if/then/else/not-type constructs in a concept. I can work my way thru it over time but in one fell swoop, I have difficulty, I think because of this very same problem with distractability [in the Hallowell sense]. I think I recall one time in another post you used several of those terms in close proximity and I got lost and had to kind of 'reset' and start over so much so that I had to ask you to please clarify what you meant because I couldn't get the end-resultant meaning, whatever it was [not a criticism, either of you or me, but just that in that particular usage I got snafu'd]. This is not unusual for me if a construct gets too much like that. I hate to keep asking "do you know what I mean", but I have to ask to get feedback, because of what I just told you. Ya'know what I mean, Red? :D
While in the neighborhood of 'obsessing' and 'engrossing', and not to offend, but I notice you have 'perfectionist' in you signature. Could you maybe elucidate about that re: these terms or in the sense of attention we've been discussing? It seems to me that there's at least a 'cousin' relationship in terms of 'closeness' in the term 'perfectionistic'. I would appreciate it.
Thanks in advance and thanks again for helping to clarify. :)
Redhead23
06-16-2004, 11:42 AM
I'll try to respond to the rest later
While in the neighborhood of 'obsessing' and 'engrossing', and not to offend, but I notice you have 'perfectionist' in you signature. Could you maybe elucidate about that re: these terms or in the sense of attention we've been discussing? It seems to me that there's at least a 'cousin' relationship in terms of 'closeness' in the term 'perfectionistic'. I would appreciate it.
Thanks in advance and thanks again for helping to clarify. :)
I feel I am an inhibited perfectionist because Ihave a very high need for order, structure, predictability, but am myself mostly incapable to keeping order, sticking to timetables, putting things back where they belong and so on. So I am a perfectionist trapped in the body of a messy and chaotic person :p
While in the neighborhood of 'obsessing' and 'engrossing', and not to offend, but I notice you have 'perfectionist' in you signature. Could you maybe elucidate about that re: these terms or in the sense of attention we've been discussing? It seems to me that there's at least a 'cousin' relationship in terms of 'closeness' in the term 'perfectionistic'. I would appreciate it.
Thanks in advance and thanks again for helping to clarify. :)
I feel I am an inhibited perfectionist because Ihave a very high need for order, structure, predictability, but am myself mostly incapable to keeping order, sticking to timetables, putting things back where they belong and so on. So I am a perfectionist trapped in the body of a messy and chaotic person :p
BetsyAnn
06-16-2004, 01:30 PM
inhibited perfectionist . . .I am a perfectionist trapped in the body of a messy and chaotic person :p
This is a brilliantly coined term! It explains alot. I am afraid I will have to adopt this term.
This is a brilliantly coined term! It explains alot. I am afraid I will have to adopt this term.
Redhead23
06-17-2004, 04:16 AM
This is a brilliantly coined term! It explains alot. I am afraid I will have to adopt this term.
No problem :D
No problem :D
apinecone
06-17-2004, 10:56 AM
I feel I am an inhibited perfectionist because Ihave a very high need for order, structure, predictability, but am myself mostly incapable to keeping order, sticking to timetables, putting things back where they belong and so on. So I am a perfectionist trapped in the body of a messy and chaotic person :p
Thanks again. I am glad I asked! Seriously. Autistic 'spectrum' is somehow particularly difficult for me to understand. My heart goes out to you, though, with two such apparently irreconcileable characteristics opposing each other, trapped or not, but esp. if trapped! Dubl seriously!! I can see why you seem to place such value on pacing yourself, since balancing perfectionism and messy/chaos must be very tricky and must require a lot of self-care and -discipline. I value this alot too but am not very good at it; the ADD combined with, well, non-asociability, drive me to too much distraction, methinks [hopefully not craziness but I do zoom around abit until someone swats me like a social fly/bug/pest; oh well.... :rolleyes: ]
And I can see where the use of the e-medium would be very helpful to help reconcile the tension between having excellent language skills but being somewhat a-social (a la Aspie), and you use it very effectively. The combination of perfectionistic economy, "ASpie" directness, and good language skills, are just a great combination for effective communication, I think, and this seems to be a very unusual (but really really good!) characteristic of yours.
I think you are a very admirable person for all this. Thank you very much for being you and sharing you with us! My sincere thanks. :wave:
Thanks again. I am glad I asked! Seriously. Autistic 'spectrum' is somehow particularly difficult for me to understand. My heart goes out to you, though, with two such apparently irreconcileable characteristics opposing each other, trapped or not, but esp. if trapped! Dubl seriously!! I can see why you seem to place such value on pacing yourself, since balancing perfectionism and messy/chaos must be very tricky and must require a lot of self-care and -discipline. I value this alot too but am not very good at it; the ADD combined with, well, non-asociability, drive me to too much distraction, methinks [hopefully not craziness but I do zoom around abit until someone swats me like a social fly/bug/pest; oh well.... :rolleyes: ]
And I can see where the use of the e-medium would be very helpful to help reconcile the tension between having excellent language skills but being somewhat a-social (a la Aspie), and you use it very effectively. The combination of perfectionistic economy, "ASpie" directness, and good language skills, are just a great combination for effective communication, I think, and this seems to be a very unusual (but really really good!) characteristic of yours.
I think you are a very admirable person for all this. Thank you very much for being you and sharing you with us! My sincere thanks. :wave:
Vintage Wine
06-17-2004, 05:29 PM
My ADD diagnosis was life-changing. There was my life "before" the diagnosis and life "after" the diagnosis! I had suspected it for years but finally went and got tested and medicated. And for the first time in my life, I was able to complete a cross-word puzzle!!
I tend to hyper-focus, too. But hey! At least I'm focused!
Also, who else here in on Adderall? (I take 20 mg/day). Have you had muscle pain with it? If I am hyper-focusing and don't get up and move/stretch, my back muscle tense.
I tend to hyper-focus, too. But hey! At least I'm focused!
Also, who else here in on Adderall? (I take 20 mg/day). Have you had muscle pain with it? If I am hyper-focusing and don't get up and move/stretch, my back muscle tense.