Hi everyone today is official day 1(again)and I feel so down and depressed constantly urging for a pill.This is sooo hard :rolleyes: honestly I would rather be run over by a bus anything but this I know what your thinking "Drama Queen"..lol..no really this sux.I must stay strong my 25th B-Days this saturday(august 7)big birthday half a century :eek: Anyways Michelle Belle how are you?How was your surgery?I have been praying for you You will be ok you are strong you will heal and hopefully everything will look ok because you are suuuupperrr mommm!!Hit me back when you feel up to it, so I know you are alright....and Lisa how are you hun?and your doggies?I love dogs too I would love a chouwawa(mjr sp)they are so cute like the one on leagally blonde lol.Anyways I am so proud of you.You truly are a great insperation.Oh well off to bed gonna try and sleep.luv,kell :wave:

25th birthday = 1/2 century?..how about 1/4 century?..anyways, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

Happy B'day..its a big one..lots of changes coming up in life-and i wish you the best..
Im sorry you are hurting-there is a great article in New York times-on addiction that TwinLynn-pointed out yesterday..i read it-search suboxone on their site..Have you considered this med?
Its really informative-and explains the cravings etc..that addicts experience trying to get clean-and relapse..and how suboxone works on this issue..
Thats the main problem-you stop-crave-relapse..cos the pathways in your brain are changed-from habitual use-so its near impossible to feel pleasure-
To go thru this process can take years-thats how someone like myself-who had 2 yrs sober-white knuckled/depressed-that entire time and ultimately relapsed.
Its not like that for everyone -what drugs/how much/length of time..etc-there are variables-
But suboxone worked for me-and reading your post reminded me of all those attempts at kicking-how those first days are so tough-
My prayers are w/ you-try to stay strong..
Check out the article-its a good one..
GGrl65

Yes, I agree with the others. I justed posted to Baseball, that relapse is a natural part of change....have you ever tried dieting, lol. I was addicted for 28+ years. I really believed after trying to quit 100+ times that I would be an addict forever..... I then started to tweek my recovery program. Every time I relapsed I would sit down and decided what I needed to do different, sometime they were very small things. After many times, I finally figured out a program that worked for me. I have been clean now, a number of years. Just dust yourself off, figure out what your trigger was and get going again. I ended up having to get an very intense program. Congratulations on Day One......... :)

I wanted to get on suboxone so badly when I quit the last time...it seems to be the magic answer for so many. Day 1 sucks...so do days 2, 3, 103 :)

I personally never found ANYTHING that made the withdrawal symptoms more tolerable...except sleeping through them. But I could never sleep either, without large doses of benzos and even then the amount that should have knocked me out for a week would only allow 30 minutes or so of sleep. But what a relief that was!

I've come to believe that attitude has a lot to do with it. My attitude was horrible and I think the withdrawals were feeding on all of the negativity, etc. Easier said than done, but try to remember that detoxing is temporary...this too shall pass, and think about how wonderful it will be to have a life without being chained to pills! Good luck!

Hi kell and HAPPY BIRTHDAY! :)

Look, not knocking sub- was on it myself and if you have exhausted EVERY other option and your killing yourself with pain meds- then sub might be the answer. But, just remember, once you get off the sub- it is just as hard- if not harder due to the length of symptoms- to get off of than pain meds! TRUST ME! And doctors will tell you that if you taper ever so slowly- you'll be fine- you won't be- or atlease you WILL go through extended withdrawals!

I think alot of doctors are and will prescribe sub for the money- bottom line- now, not all, but many will. My addictionologist has been ALL OVER speaking and studying and he, himself was a bup addict (which is the main ingrediant in sub), and he tells me that that was the only drug (the bup/sub) that he was so miserable coming off of that he tried to commit suicide! And from his travels and studies, he has learned that sub sticks to your receptors like glue and requires ALOT more discipline in getting off than short acting opiates. He said I was the only person to successfully (and it's only been 3 months) to quit taking the sub and not go back to it or another drug. Now, please, sub users, I am not saying that that will happen to you or anyone for that matter, but it did happen to him and he suggests and I agree that sub should be a last resort! Just my opinion and some food for thought!

Don't get too down- I relapsed a zillion times- or alteast it felt that way! Thanks for your prayers,
michelle

Kell,
Happy Birthday Hon! I just read your post and I went through the same thing Monday, Not on Hydro's for two days- my skin was crawling, wanting to just jump out of the window of the car I was in, I had horrible crying spells, kicking my legs, wanting TO GET HIT BY A BUS! Went strait to the Rx and took two 10 mg. at the same time. I was a mess. Im back to taking them again. I don't know when I'l ever come clean and have to check into a detox or rehab to go through w/d but I know the day is comin.

Sorry to remind you of that first day. It's just when I read it I so related to it.
I have a family so I have to get through this physical therapy Im going to and my doctor said she would help me taper off the med's Im taking. I agree w/ Michelle, No SUB! It will only prolong what is going to happen at some point anyway. Your receptors are like live wires when you get off the pills.

They don't know what to do cuz they havent worked on there own in years or for however long wev'e been using.

Kell, You are so young, have a happy birthday and here's a big hug for your birthday...............

Love,

SARA

Hey Kell...how are ya doing??? Only 2 more days til your b-day...what are ya doing on Saturday any plans??? I hope you're hanging in there. Is this day 2 or 3 now???? I know that if you put your mind to fighting this monster...you will NEVER have to go thru "day one" ever again!!! Get determined, i really developed a severe hatred for "pills" ---they control the crap outta me, and i HATE things having control over me...plus they robbed me of my soul and spirit this time. I just have NO dam interest in ANYTHING!!! I am just merely going thru the motions on a daily basis, just EXISTING. I keep wondering if this is EVER gonna get better. I know it does with time, so i just keep pluggin along. This is the hardest challenge of our lives, it is a fight FOR our lives back. I am routing for ya...keep me posted on how you are feeling. I will post again before Saturday, so i can wish you a happy b-day then. Hope you are well....
luv,
LISA

Lisa,
You are too sweet! I hope someday I will be able to write your story, and it will be mine and I will "be hating those pills!" I am going through PT right now... so not even entertaining the idea of stopping. But once Im feeling better... I am going to HATE those things that have become a "need" in my life just like a person needs sleep or food to survive.

Anyway I just wanted to say how sweet your e-mail was to Kell. Very Sweet!

Your story and recovery are an inspiration to me! Thanks,

Sara

Michelle, no disrespect but from what I remember you never took the sub the way you should have for a successful detox. As I recall, you would take it for a couple days, go back to it, take it, go back to it. Suboxone as literally saved my life and my children have their mother back and my husband has his wife back. So please, stop knocking the sub...........Just because it didn't work for you, please stop bashing it as it has saved many lives. I am afraid that you scaring people off of trying it which could stop them from getting clean and STAYING clean. I do not feel I have traded on addiction for another. Quite the contrary......I am clean and will stay clean....thanks to suboxone. Because I am using it the way my doctor has prescribed it for me.

Michelle, no disrespect but from what I remember you never took the sub the way you should have for a successful detox. As I recall, you would take it for a couple days, go back to it, take it, go back to it. Suboxone as literally saved my life and my children have their mother back and my husband has his wife back. So please, stop knocking the sub...........Just because it didn't work for you, please stop bashing it as it has saved many lives. I am afraid that you scaring people off of trying it which could stop them from getting clean and STAYING clean. I do not feel I have traded on addiction for another. Quite the contrary......I am clean and will stay clean....thanks to suboxone. Because I am using it the way my doctor has prescribed it for me.

PillDiva,

I guess you didn't read where I said, "I am not knocking the sub.....as it may be ideal if you have exhausted every other option and are killing yourself with pain meds." And I never said one would be trading one addiction for another- I do not feel that way and have always been a strong voice for the exact opposite that you are claiming I am doing!

The only point I am trying to make is- don't rush to sub unless you have a hearty, hearty opiate addict and you have tried detox or rehab or any other option first! And the reason I feel that way is because of how hard it is to come off of and while I did try to quit several times on my own, I was tapered by my current addictionologist with what I had left. Although, he said it may help some to be tapered ever so slowly, one would experience withdrawals NO MATTER how they are tapered off and they are alot more lengthy than short acting opiate withdrawal! Don't take my word for it- ask someone else here that has tapered off!

I don't think it hurts to share my experiences as I am only trying to give food for thought as I said and encourage one to look at all their choices- I wasn't "bashing" anything! I am very happy that you have your life back and I respect your choice to use the sub completely!

I must say though, that I think that is why this board has lost alot of good posters because if one ever says anything (concerning the various ways to get/stay clean) that another doesn't like, that person is sure to get an "ugly" email as I feel yours, PillDiva, was as you put words in my mouth and insuiated I didn't want people get and stay clean! Again, I am glad you are clean for the sake of your family and I hope you are successfull if and when you come off the sub!

michelle

I am hopefully not stepping on anyones toes here...However, for what it
is worth I am in total agreement with how Michelle posted and your post
Michelle to me at least was very caring and thoughtful....Diva I am glad
the sub is workng for you and so many others...What I do want to say
for what it is worth is I have been involved in the implementation ,
documentation and facilitation of sub programs,etc in reference to my
medical occupation and Michelle you speak words of wisdom....it has
and will continue to grow as a huge pot of gold for many unprofessional
health entities,docs,etc...I have seen it first hand unfortunately...However,
I am in no way knocking the virtues of sub,methadone,etc..I am quite
familiar with the clinical pharmacology,pharmacokinetics and clinical
studies...I just wanted to say I felt Michelle was not understood and quite
caring in her posts as usual....

Peace....Chris

Chris...I agree with you. I have read numerous of posts where Michelle was very supportive of the use of suboxone, Methadone or anything else that will help you become clean. I, too, was almost going to stop my helping of others on this board as I once voiced my PERSONAL OPINION about a drug substitute and felt very attacked. I said in response I do not have to agree with your choice of recovery to support you. I have been addicted for 28 and some years and have tried ALL WAYS to get clean, I found for me, I needed to bite the bullet and get it done. I now live free from all drugs...... I recently changed my mind about the use of Methadone, and suboxone due to a personal experience however, I think that people should become educated before they do any drug, as I was in the medical porfession for years, I will say that there is a lot of caring wonderful people in the field but, the health field is a multi-billion dollar BUSINESS.

Thanks Chris and BC!

I agree so much with the point that there are so many wonderful, caring doctors that truly want to help addicts get and stay clean! I hope PillDiva has one, Banker has one, Sammi has one, etc.- but I didn't have one at first. He put me on the sub and I never saw him again- only telephone communication and he seemed more concerned with traveling and making money. My current addictionologist said he is very careful about critizing another doctor but was very concerned how this one left me "high and dry." That is why I made the statement that some doctors will use this ONLY as another way of making money- just be careful!

I may could have worded myself better but I think alot of people are not informed about what they will be facing when they decide to get off the sub- that was the MAIN point I was trying to make! It has been very, very hard for me and I wouldn't want someone else to go through this if there was an easier way and I say IF!

I apologize to anyone reading this if I made you uneasy about subutex/suboxene- that was not my intention. I simply wanted you to weigh all your options!

Thanks again, BC, and SO GLAD you didn't stop posting as you have definately been strength for me at times! And, Chris, I am unfamiliar with your story as I have been away alot lately due to health issues but I will read your threads in case I can be any help to you- sounds like you are a BIG HELP already though to those here! :)

God Bless!
michelle

Michelle, I guess my reply to your post came off in a way that you felt attacked. That was not my intention. My intention was and still is to let people know the POSITIVE side of suboxone and how it saves lives and families. And yes, I did read where you "said" you were "not" knocking suboxone but then you went on to do just that. If I were a person that had not yet made up my mind about going on suboxone, your post would have scared me away from it.....and that's the truth. If you feel that I have once again attacked you, sorry but that is my position and opinion. When I mentioned trading one addiction for another, I was NOT referring to you.......I was just putting it out there because of many posts where I have read just that. It's funny to me how you said that "if one ever says anything (concerning the various ways to get/stay clean) that another doesn't like, that person is sure to get an "ugly" email as I feel yours, ........What do you call what you just wrote to me? I am not here to fight...........I have been a faithful reader and a somewhat quiet poster long before you ever arrived and will continue to read these boards for a long time. I just don't want people looking for help to get scared of something that could save their lives. And that is why I felt compelled to write. And yes Michelle,....I have a VERY caring doctor who has and still is helping me tremendously. I already know all about the withdrawals that I will (if I choose) have to face when I come off it. I have done ALL of my homework in this area. However, I have no intention of coming off it anytime soon........and my doctor is in full agreement with me about staying on it for as long as I want to. I have exhausted every means of trying to get well and have failed miserably. That is until I found out about suboxone. And I owe a huge thanks to StaceyVictor for that. She is the one that first went on it from these boards and it was her post that started my research and homework. I am happy, healthy and clean thanks to suboxone. I have had nothing but outstanding results since the first day I started on it. If you wish to respond....great....but if it's going to be another ugly email, please spare me.... I come on here to read and it's very theraputic for my recovery. I really can do without the negativity. Like I said....I only felt compelled to respond because I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea about suboxone. But then again....maybe I'm no expert. I only take it and it's only working great for me......who knows!!! I guess I'll stop posting from now on....I see that if one doesn't agree with someone on these boards, then they have no right to post with THEIR opinion. Oh well.....I will go back to lurking and learning. Good luck to you and everyone else on here to is trying to fight this ugly addiction.

PD,

I am sorry you felt I attacked you in return- I re-read and re-read my post to make sure it didn't sound attacking. I am a sensitive soul and can easily pick up on anything that may hurt one's feelings and I didn't feel there was anything that could be construed as "attacking," but I guess I was wrong! I also felt that I tried to clarify myself in my second post as well as apologized! I just think people get on the "defense" so easily if they feel their choices are being attacked- and I said more than once that I was NOT doing that and that I supported yours and anyone's choice to take sub! But, let me say again, I am sorry if you took anything I said the wrong way and I am very happy you have your life back!

If you were to quit posting because of this exchange- I'll be more than happy to back away (since I have not been quite as active anyway) since you were here "long before I was!" I would NOT want to be the reason anyone did not post! I have reached a point where, as much as I love helping others on the board, I could find help elsewhere for myself.

I wish you the very best in your recovery- very glad you have a caring doctor who will work with you and help you every step of the way- you are very lucky!
michelle

Hey Guys! I honestly don't think anyone meant to hurt anyone at ALL! We are all on these boards because we are finding life tough...and sometimes miserable......and this certainly, in MY case, makes me soooo ultra-sensitve to EVERYTHING!

So.......please let's just start over. You are BOTH people who are really needed on this board. We HAVE lost posters--though many of them have left after getting wel--which is a good reason! :-) But, too many of our medically-knowledgeable and our long-time, experienced posters are gone....and it really does show on the Board. Somtimes you want so much to help another poster...but you just do not have the information.

So.....please, let's just begin again, because the two of you are MUCH too valuable for either of you to "bow out." :-)

My very best to all, Lynn :-)

Hi Michelle!

I was at home, doing laundry, working, etc. and I was wondering how the post op gal is doin?

Are you in a lot of pain? How bout you family? Are you being pampered? I hope the Southeren-er is being well taken care of!!!!!!! :angel:

Sincerely,

Sara ((((((With Prayers about your health!)))))

I agree with Twinlyn....let it go. Recovery is about sharing one's own experience whether it be positive or negative. If one shares about thier negative experience with a certain recovery program, someone should post thier positive experience. I did not agree with taking Methadone, and I post my opinion about that, I would then encourage people that had positive experiences to post thier experiences to give people a choice. It is our responsibility as one addict trying to help another addict, to be honest about our experiences. Pilldiva, please post your positive experiences about your recovery with Suboxone. It will help people make a decision about if they would be right for that particular program. We can not expect everyone to agree with our methods of getting clean, and we can not look down on others because they do not agree. We can only share our personal experiences whether they be good or bad. :)

Pilldiva, (love your name!) -

I went back to the archives of a year ago and read how you took such a big step and cold-turkeyed off your drugs. It seems as if you did so well....and you sounded so excited. (And all the work you did to help your daughter was so wonderful.)

I do not see any threads where you mentioned going on Suboxone, since then? If you possibly can, I'd love to hear about when you went on it...and what you experience has been with it. Does your daughter take it? I definitely need to hear both pluses and minuses about this drug, at this point. So, any info. would be really helpful.

Thanks, Lynn :-)

PS Michele and I have been friends for a long time now...and I will put my hand on any faith bible (take your choice!! :-) and swear that you won't meet a kinder, more caring person. Like you, she's always there for people. In fact...I think you both have a lot in common!! People's opinions of drugs like Suboxone really do seem to vary--and vehemently! But, drawing conclusions from all I've been able to read, I think Suboxone has been the one drug that's helped people like myself, who are "stuck." That's why I need to keep reading pros and cons.