First let me say this is coming from a cloudy mind, as all of you know I am on day 9. Banker, I have not heard from you in a while and don't let this affect you in anyway. I would hate myself if I made you nervous or scared.

I was a 8 10mg Loratab plus 15 ultram plus about 4mg Klonipin user for a number of years. I know it is not even close to some on the board ( I forgot add in 60mg of Ritilan with that) but add up the combo and it sounds pretty terrible.

I was probably not the best candidate for Suboxone. I went in search of it from reading how it had helped Banker so much. I went on 4mg twice daily for a couple of months and then did a faster than I should have taper.
However, I would probably still be on the loratabs and other stuff if I had not gotten on the Sub. The Sub did clear my head to see all my wrong doings.

So I do believe Suboxone to be a very good drug for lots of people, if for no other reason than seeing what you have done to your life. I am saying this on day 9 crying my eyes out I am in such despair. So to every good side there has to be a downside. Look out for much worse mental and physical withdrawels with the Suboxone. It really hangs with you. If I had tapered off the loratabs and was on day 9, I would probably be feeling much better than right now.

So I guess the Sub did help me but now I am paying the price for all my wrongs. All my good friends on Sub I offer this advice. Please gear up mentally for the battle of your life when you decide to quit. Pick a two week span where you have the least amount of resonsibilities. Don't be surprised and fooled like me when I was on day 4 and had not had any physical w/d. Just wait till day six hits and you are in for a shock. The clonidine patch does help a little. It is very hard to sleep because you feel like you are jumping out of your skin. It is a lot like a rollercoster ride without the peak. For short periods of time you are flat and then for the most part you are way down in the valley.

In the end, if you was like me and just could not kick the opiate habit, then consider suboxone. It could very well save your life and liver. It does come with a few side affects but not real bad. Just remember when its time to pay the piper, you will pay. But, I guess if it was a cake walk there would be no addicts.

love to all my friends,
fisherman

I guess I would have to say I did accomplish something. First in 9 days. I worked 4 hours. I took one of my trained Labrador Retrievers 100 miles to the airport for shipment to NC. Sammi, I believe I remember a post you made one time about duck hunting. You know us Southern boys and our hunting dogs. I love to run them in Field Trials. I mowed the grass. I spent about a hour dog training and boy were they ready for it. They probably thought I was dead or something. This has been my busiest day. I still feel the extreme hurt but I did accomplish some goals.

However, my whistle was a little weak. I bet my dogs thought I was getting soft or something. I blew it one time and one of them just looked at me with the funniest look.........LOL

fisherman

Hey Fish,

I just read about your Klonipin(4 mgs per day). This might've been what made it a hard kick for you. Throw benzos into the mix and, whoa, you are gonna have a tough time.

I agree with windysan I had a terrible time with klonopin and xanax. The mental w/ds seemed to last alot longer than the mental w/ds with hydro.

Hi Fisherman Just wanted to check in with you and see how you are doing on your tenth day. You know you must be a strong person to have sub and the ritilian in the house and not touch them. I remember I was running low on adderall last feb. I had ritilian in the house but I had the mindset that it was bad for me and I was not going to put it in my body. I lasted almost a week. I felt so strong and I know I can be that strong again. Well anyway let me know how you are doing ok.

Hey Carley,

Day 10.............Well what can I say but it is still hard. Boy do I know one of those Ritalin would pep me up and make me feel better but I am also so Scared it will make me loose my judgement and relaplse. When you set your mind on quitting the Ritalin you will do fine. It is a real short acting drug and you don't have physical w/d with it. A lot of ADD go on Ritalin free weekends all the time. However, you may have a emotional attachment and that could give you a little problem. But if you do have ADD both drugs seem to work for the condition. It is nothing wrong with being on it for life when used as directed. I just abused and self medicated with it. Had no control.

Thanks for thinking of me, it touches my heart,
fisherman

Hi again Fisherman You know there was someone talking about training dogs yesterday unless I dreamed that. That wasnt you. Anyway do you have any pets. I find that my dog really lifts my mood. She is my best friend well besides my husband and 3 cats lol. But I love that dog. She is 9yrs old and has kidney problems so I pray she will be around for a long time. Her name is Shelby and she appears to be shepard and lab. Well just wanted to tell you that because its something important to me. your friend Carly

Carley,

It was me about the dogs. I train Labrador Retrievers for Field Trials and Hunt Tests. I normally spend lots of time with my many labs. Before starting this quiting opiates, I would train a couple of hours 6 days a week. Trial season starts next weekend and I have a couple who are ready for the blue ribbons but I will have to make some headway. I also ocassionaly train up a pup for a friend but time usaually is a problem.

I am weak on the whistle today.lol

your friend,
fisherman

I know when I would run out of the hydro's for a day or two, I would (by borrowing from the neighbor's kid) take Ritalin to help with the withdrawals. The Ritalin would stop the w/d's but I didn't get a buzz from them. How is it that they stopped the withdrawals from the hydro?

Rebecca,

I had the 20mgs XR that are supposed to last 8 hours. I would chew them up for a instant rush. A big no no. So the dosage of the kid's is probably short acting and a low dosage. I used the Ritalin to fight off depression and it worked at the peak but I think overall the valleys were deeper than if I had taken nothing at all. When do you plan to get off the Sub? How long have you been on it? I have been taking notes and idea's so I can give back to all of you when your time comes. Maybe it will help it to be less pain free.

Banker, where you been.................Yours is going to be so much easier than mine because we will have a plan. I made a lot of mistakes in my plan that we are going to keep you from.

Carley,

How long you been on the Adderall, Ritalin? How much are you using? Are you quiting early enough to go to sleep at night? Please try to stay with the adderal and leave the Ritalin alone. It worries me much that you sometimes combine the two. Was you like me and pop one before your feet hit the floor in the morning. Hang in there..........you have helped me very much.

fisherman

QUOTE<<It was me about the dogs. I train Labrador Retrievers for Field Trials and Hunt Tests. I normally spend lots of time with my many labs. Before starting this quiting opiates, I would train a couple of hours 6 days a week. Trial season starts next weekend and I have a couple who are ready for the blue ribbons but I will have to make some headway. I also ocassionaly train up a pup for a friend but time usaually is a problem>>UNQUOTE

Hey, fisherman! Good for you working with your dogs. I'm very involved in a Shih Tzu Club -- and many of us work with our tzu in Agility and Obedience. My 3 boys have all been thru obedience - a bit of agility (and they still have their long coats!). Some tzu around the country are being worked in field trials.....but not many yet. We've only hit the tip of the iceberg with our breed in performance events. The Shih Tzu's day is coming! :D Will talk to you more about dawgs when you're feeling better! 'Have a day!'
TwinAlice

Hi fisherman I get 240 adderall a month short acting and 120 ritalin short acting. The doctor always had me on high amounts of adderall because a few people do need high amounts. The only reason I combined the adderall and ritalin was because the ritalin alone gives me such severe depression. My goal this month is to cut the ritalin. I am not on ritalin at the moment and cant get any till friday Prozac helped cut the adderall and ritalin but it made me really sick. I would almost black out my blood sugar would drop like a rock. So there went the prozac too bad because it had many good effects. My blood pressure has been up a little used to be 120 over 80 now 134 over 90. They just have to watch that it doesnt scoot up any more. Dont worry about me too much. I am strong but thanks for caring. I am so happy I have helped you. You have helped more then anyone on the two boards I belong to. I am really listening to your advice because you are caring and smart. You know one thing I really miss is my work. I am a nursing assistant in a nursing home and a darn good one. I been out since may and am going back sept 18 so it is my last chance to get the ritalin problem resolved before I go back. Yea I take the adderall as soon as I get up. Well I guess I have written a book. How are doing? You do seem the a tiny bit better or is that wishful thinking.

Carley,

You really don't even realize how much you have helped me.

You know the funny thing that rang a bell in something you said. They were giving me Ritalin to help with my depression and my depression only seemed to worsen. When I finally got off Ritalin in May my depression has been a considerable amount better. Even going through this living torment , I have not been overwhelmed with depression. Just grieving the love affair I had with the opiates.

your friend,
fisherman

Fisherman,

I've only been on Suboxone for a week. Should I start detoxing now? I was doing IV Dilaudid for 3 months, morning/noon/night. I had bad withdrawals after 12 hours, and went in the next day and started suboxone. I started on 8 mgs. day one, 12 mgs. day two, 8 mgs. day three, 6 day four, 4 day five, 4 day six; now should I cut down to two mgs, and wait until I feel withdrawals? Or should I stay at 2 mgs. for a week and then cut down to chips? From your other posts, it sounds like wd's from sub are worse than for heroin/dilaudid. What's the scoop?

No snowdog,

Stay on the maintnance dose of Suboxone a little longer. You need to level out and see the world in a whole new life. You will get more determined when this new revelation opens up for you. You are on a low dosage of Sub right now so ,side effects should be easy. Then when you do start your taper do a good slow taper. All the way down to chips. W/d's are W/d's no matter if it is strong opiates or Suboxone. We all have to pay the piper. I can't tell you which is worse because I only went the Sub route. It is day 12 for me and still the emotional attachment is there. I would imagine that the Sub will last longer because it just sticks to your recepters like mud. They say it takes about 90 days for your recepters to go back to normal.

I hope I have given you good advice. Don't use just my post because I am in the middle of the battle and can be a little distorted at times.

Start your on thread and these wonderful people will talk you through the battle. Please continue to post here because it has been my lifeline for 12 days. It will surely help you conquer this terrible problem.

best wishes,
Fisherman

Hi Fisherman,

You sound much better today than all of your past days. I know its been truly a tough road for you but you are definitely on the right track now. It only gets better as every day passes.

Remember, do exercise so endorphins can fill your brain receptors. Opiates act the same way as endorphins which is the reason why people love opiates so much. It generally gives you that "feel good" attitude. Another reason why people get depressed when they tend to come off opiates.

Take your vitamins and stay strong. I'm very proud of you :) Day 12 is a huge accomplishment for not caving! Thank you for all of your kind words about me. I'm only here to do to others as others have done to me.

Take care. :cool:

Yes, I did read about your hobby. I had three Maltese dogs (3 generations of Maltese), but two dogs are gone now (one got killed by an owl at night). I don't really like thinking about them because I can get so sad and feel so guilty about it. I was heavy on my opiate usage and my dogs were so neglected. Anyhow I went away for a weekend and obviously you don't make the soundest choices while on opiates, therefore my dog died a horrible death because of my addiction. I blame only myself for that and to this day, I feel this extreme guilt. You would think that incident would have made me quit at that time, but NO, it didn't. It was only a sign of things to come for me and my opiate addiction.

Anyhow, sorry about that, it just gave me some bad memories. I always had a hard time training my dogs. Maltese are not the brightest breeds! I would love some training tips! I don't have dogs anymore, I can't cope with the fact of what I should have done still. Maybe in the future. I wish the best for you for the ESPN Big games. You will feel like taking her this weekend! You will be much better by then. You have to anyways so you can get your mind off drugs!

I think you will be fine with the Ritalin for a couple of weeks. Ritalin is a schedule CII, which is highly addictive. Its like speed but legal because its a RX. Vicodin is only CIII compared to Ritalin. Of course it will increase your BP because its a stimulant. Your lethargy will subside in 3 weeks (from your last Sub intake) so therefore you will not need the Ritalin. I would hate to see you jump into another addiction.

No, it wasn't me that told you about 45 days, it was another woman. I agree with her that it will take about 45 days to feel completely normal (sleep, mental clarity, cravings, etc.). However, it doesn't mean that you don't feel great being off drugs or being controlled by pills.

After a while, maybe try those caffeine drinks, like Red bull, etc. I heard those are just as stimulating because they do have guarana in it , in addition to caffeine.

These are only my opinions and I'm not a doctor by all means. I do know more about pharmaceuticals than the other Joe Smoe because of my former employment background, but that's it.

Good luck! Take care and stay strong. :cool:

Over,

Don't blame yourselve for your dog. I know we love our pets and it is a terrible to treat them wrong but we must always remember they don't have a soul. I love my dogs but for them to do some of the things I require I must be a little rough sometimes. I never feel good about it but it just has to be done. The e-collar is one example . I use one only when I am feeling pretty good because I don't want to get mad and take my aggressions out the dog.

When you get ready for another dog, Lab's make great pets, let me know and I send you a little yellow teddy bear out there. I only breed when I am or have buddies wanting a trial dog.

My yellow female is the sweetest thing in the world. I think I'll go out and throw her some fake ducks so I can see those beautiful brown eyes.

your friend,
fisherman

Thanks for the reply Fisherman. I'll do what you said and stick to 4 mgs. for a week. Suboxone's strange that it sticks in the body so long. How are you feeling? You're on day 12! Wow! Do you hurt? Man, just reading your post has got me scared about suboxone. I don't want to get too attached, but let me tell you, when I was in deep WD's it seemed like a gift from GOD! I still can't believe I'm free from worrying if I have "enough"...that's the worst part of addiction, worrying when it's all gone....it's like once the last amount of coke is gone, it doesn't matter if you did a gram shot, and were close to seizures, once you realize that you're out, your high just automatically comes down. Do you know anything about rational recovery or smart recovery? Is that a valid recovery path? I don't like the idea of NA since it makes it seem like there's never going to be an end to this ********...it scares me to think that my life is always going to be a struggle to stay clean. Is that what happens? Can an addict ever move on? Has there ever been any cases were someone just changed their life and moved on? I don't mean to sound naive, I've been an addict for 15 years, but somewhere inside, I always liked to think that I could move on. Maybe that's classic denial. Whatever the case, this healthboard has been great. I like reading all of your posts, and Bankers. She seems interesting. Take care and keep up the good work! I'm really impressed by your stamina!

Hi Fisherman You sound so much better. I am glad to hear it. We are having our carpets cleaned tomorrow then the trip weds.I am looking forward to gettng away. I live on Long Island Ny so we are going upstate to a place called LK. George. I will check in with you tomorrow to see how you are doing ok your friend Carly

My good friend Carley,

What would I do without you? I have had a better day and I was wondering about you. You have fun on your trip. I would love to break lose and go down to the Gulf Coast this weekend. Surf and sand would be fun.

have fun,
fisherman

Hi to all.... Fisherman, I responded to the other post first but you really do sound good. Maybe I should pick a date and start decreasing. Today I've only had 8 mgs compared to 12 - 16 some days. I know I will have it bad because if I'm a few hours late taking it the very next day (after taking 4 mgs in the evenings/afternoons) I start to feel withdrawals... so if I'm feeling them that soon after my last dose... I'm going to be hurting! I can't believe you didn't feel anything until day 5. That's amazing!!!

Anyway, I have GOT to go to bed... I keep saying that but can't seem to get off of here... I have missed everyone. Take care and keep up your strength. You're doing great!!!!!!!!!!

Banker,

It was so weird that I did not feel any physical w/ds until around the 5 day. That don't mean I was not going through the emotional ones. Maybe they were so overpowering that they masked the physical ones. I did not feel the emotional start to show it's ugly head until I was down to about 1mg in the morning and 1mg in the afternoon. It was very uncomfortable for those couple of weeks but nothing compares when that 36 hour hits after your last dose. You only thought you were bad on 1mg to find out that 1mg was Heaven compared to zero. Your at a good maintnance dose at 8mg a day. That is where I started and stayed. I could have probably started at 6mg and made it. You have been on it a long time as I was only on maintnance for about 6 weeks so it will react a little more drastic for you at first. However, when you get to zero, you will be no different than me , Over, Stella and a few other s that have w/d. It will be the same song and dance. You may even do better than we have because of the knowledge that I received from these wonderful people who had successfully w/d from the Sub.

Please don't let the weight be your deciding factor. Lot easier to loose weight down the road than kick a opiate addiction. Funny, I lost weight while I was on the Sub. I would feel so good that I forgot to eat. Good thing because I have gained a pound a day since day 1-13. I clocked in at 183 today and I was a smooth 170 13 days ago. You lucky girl...............you will probably loose a pound a day when you quit. I 'll be so jealous of you.LOL

your friend,
fisherman

All my kind friends,

Day 13 has seemed harder than 12. Today has just been sorta sad. Maybe the reality is starting to set in. Tomorrow will be two weeks without Suboxone. I never thought I would be writing that post. Maybe just a case of the mid week blues. I know tomorrow will be a better day...................

thanks to my friends,
fisherman

Hi Fisherman,

Sorry to hear that today, Day 13 is rough for you. You will experience good days and bad days still. It will still take a while before you feel completely normal. Don't be discouraged though, its still your brain receptors trying to get back to normalcy without chemicals.

I'm sorry to hear that you have fibro. I am a chronic pain sufferer too. But at least our minds have clarity as opposed to being in a pill fog. Not to mention, the lack of counting or searching for pills. That use to be so awful..Wondering if the next handful of pills will be your kiss of death..wondering if you will wake up the next day...I use to go through that endless fear of the unknown.

Anyways, enough of the bad memories of pill popping. It just feels so great to be able to live without all of that..Ya know?

You're doing a super job. Truly an inspiration to all other posters. Keep up the great work.

Take care. :cool:

HiFisherman I am sorry you feel blue today. I suffer from depression at times, so I know how hard it is to get though. Try to tell yourself it is not going to last forever. I am so proud of you. I will talk to you when I get back sat ok. Your good friend Carly

Over and Carly,

It makes my day happier when I see your post. Over, you have talked me all the way till tomorrow being two weeks. You are so kind and helpful.
Carly, what can I say about you than you have inspired me even though you felt bad too. I just bet if I met you two, I would see wings.

thanks my angels,
Fisherman

ps Carly have a great trip. I will be thinking of you while I am number crunching this week.

Wow that is an extremely fast taper isn't it? You started at 4mg per day...and where are you now at day 10? Did you stop cold turkey?

I am new here. I have come from a 100 mg/day oxycontin habit, and have been on 8-10 mg suboxone now for a few months....and ready to stop!

Thanks for sharing your experience. Pls keep us posted and good luck. Just keep your eyes on the prize. Remember nothing is more important than getting through this. You're well into it now and that's quite commendable. You should be proud. I widh I was there already!

Koffree,

I don't know if you are reffering to me and my taper but will respond anyway.

My taper was not extremely fast. It was over a 6 week period. I went from 4mg x 2 to 3mg x2 for 2 weeks. Then I went to 2mgs x 2 for 2 weeks . Then I went to 1 mg x 2 for about a week. Then to 1 mg for about 5 days and then about .05 for 3 days then quit.

It was however faster than my doctor wanted. I just thought it would be a cakewalk. Laugh Laugh.

It was a lot better than going C/T but not as good as a longer taper.

just my take and remember .....I stress..........I am still in emotional w/d so my answers might be a little distorted. You need the imput of the ones who have already passed my stage. I really feel I will have a long emotional tie to the opiates because I was so in love with them.

thanks for your words of encouragement,
Fisherman

Hi fisherpard,
thank you for the clarification. you're right that still seems fast but i can totally relate to how you've decided to do it. personally i'd rather be in more withdrawel for a shorter time period, but who knows what the actual trade-off is? it seems the folks who do the slow taper are pretty miserable as well.

we just want our lives back. the lion has slayed the dragon, but now we've got to convince the lion to go back to the jungle, eh?

we all were in love with our pills. for me they were like hiring a personal assistant to deal with all the crap in my life so i didn't have to. but it's SO much better to love yourself for keeping your promise. it really is key in withdrawl to remember it is temporary, and you will get better. i've used this a a mantra before and it helps.

Koffree,

You will be fine. i see a strong and honest heart in your posts. Get a good grip, hang on, come to this forum anytime to cry the blues, let loose steam , stay as busy as you can. I never thought I would see 14 days and guess what tomorrow will be 15.

I am not the happiest person in the world. I had a real hard day yesterday. Peobably cried the hardest I have ever in my life. Cryed so hard that I had a headache for 12 hours. My eyes were all swoll up and I was a sight to see.

But guess what I came here, and read what the angels had written and it gave me the strength to carry on.

You'll make it....We will rejoice on your day 14.

best wishes,
fisherman

Fisherman,

I get a daily email that is sort of like a 'daily prayer' and you won't beleive the one that came to me today... I'm quoting it exactly as it appeared in my 'inspirational email'.

Breton Fisherman’s Prayer

Dear God, be good to me;
The sea is so wide,
And my boat is so small.

I don't know if you believe in a 'higher power' but this was just a little too coincidental. I mean, normally I get prayers about every day things like kids, and work and things like that. But to get a 'fisherman's prayer? Unless I don't understand.... ??? Is Breton someone that I should know and even still, why would I care about a prayer for him? Unless he's someone in the Bible that I don't know about...???

Banker,

It is a very old prayer that I know very well. Breten I beliieve as a Cape in Novia Scocia sp. It was also a favorite of President JFK and was on a plaque on his desk in the Oval office. Of course he was a seaman so the prayer fit's the man. I do find it odd that you recieved it today.

Yes , Even though I have questioned my faith, at one time I had a good and honest heart. Never missed a day for over 12 years reading the Bible. My daughter learned how to read by us reading the KJV Bible. She was reading that Old English at the ripe old age of 5. It was so joyful to see her really read those hard words. She is 14 now and can quote pretty much all the well known passages of the New Test.

It is really odd that prayer came today. I also believe Robert Kennedy 's wife worked with drug addicted teens at one point and she always led off the meeting's with that prayer.

Maybe it's a message for me to come home and get back on my knee's as I once did.

Thanks for passing it along to me.
I have so many of you Angels watching over me. I know I will sleep well.

TTYL,
fisherman

:wave: Good morning my friend! How are you doing? That's really neat that you knew so much about that prayer. I mean, maybe everyone does and I was just ignorant. But... I'm glad I sent it along. You obviously, were the first one to come to my mind, and honestly the only one.

Yes, I am praying for you daily. Since you have children, you know that those amazing little things cannot be conceived and born without some kind of a miracle occuring. They are amazing and angels in themselves... Sometimes I can be so 'why me' when caring for all three of them, by myself and if they have been unusually difficult or something... And I have got to ask for forgiveness for thinking those thoughts because without my children, I would be dead.... not to mention that those little babies rely so much on me. It's scary, isn't it... to try and make the right decisions to ensure you are teaching them correctly and trying to ensure they are going to make the right decisions when they get older. It's a tough job and I know if I had not started back to church recently... well, let's just say that it has helped ALL of us so much.

And of course..... with the drug issue. Sometimes things are too much for us to handle and that's when we all should just hand it to God and ask him to take over for us. I have failed in doing this like I should. I guess we all have and we aren't perfect... but I'm truly blessed.....

There is a man that works at a store I frequent a lot and every time I leave he said 'count your blessings, they will but a skip in your step'... he always says it when I need it the most.

Anyway... so to you, my dear friend... today, instead of hurting and craving and wondering 'why'.... be happy that you are alive and not on opiates. And I'll try to just be happy that I'm alive and have the chance to get off of Suboxone... soon or one of these days! :)

And Koffree --- this goes to you too!!! You guys take care...

Banker my Angel who always encourages me,

Good for you taking the little ones to Church. You will continue to draw strenght from God and when your time comes you will have in your heart the promise that God made to all you would receive it.

Thank you for reminding me what I once was. I had forgotten what is was like to place your trust in something other than a pill.

I really miss the singing of the old Gospel hymns, it used to just lift me up.


Just wanted to say thanks for thinking about me yesterday. It will only help to make today "better than the day before"

your friend,
fisherman

"be happy that you are alive and not on opiates"

Yes. I'm tempted to paint this on my bathroom mirror at some point. There is so MUCH joy in being free. Even the worst pains of wd cannot compete.

Hope you are doing well.

-k

I need updates on you guys... how are you? Koffree... what's going on? Fisherman, how are you feeling?

Went to my counselor today and I want both of your opinions (and anyone else who has come off of Sub)..... she knows how badly this weight is bothering me and I was telling her how I've heard so many stories about how people will taper all the way down to two and one and not have problems until they stop completely.... She told me to get down to 2 mgs per day.... and that if I did this, would it have a dramatic impact on the side effects I am getting such a the weight gain, constipation, etc. Whatcha' think? Thx again and let me know....

My good friend The Banker,

I had a so so day. Tomorrow is day 17 I think. I am losing count. It all seems like one big blur from first day I posted. I could not have made without you.

My opinion for what it's worth............................When I got down to 2mg I started to crave pretty bad again. So that was one of my reasons for going a little faster on the taper, I thought I was craving anyway so why not go ahead and quit. That is what scares me for you. I was tolerable at 4mg but had a little breakthrough cravings. This might not be your case however, and it does not hurt to try because you can always move back up a litttle bit.

I'm with you on any choice you make. I made a promise I believe around day 7 that I would be there for you when it is your time.I am not one to break a promise so I watch for your posts daily.

your friend,
fisherman

hey folks,
i'm ALL for getting down to 2 mgs per day. in fact until i started reading here i didn't even KNOW they made 2mg tablets. i've been cutting my 8's into little pieces - duh. i'm picking up my 2mg pills in the morning.

right now 2mg per day sounds like a distant fantasy, but i'm inspired. what fisher said about feeling bad anyway so why not push it, is what i was wondering about. so i take it that has been your experience fisher? what do you think, banker? i think i'm taking more than you both as maintenance [around 12-16mgs per day]. but anyway banker if you feel ready to start a taper i'm on the brink as well. i think your doc is right - on 2mgs per day you should feel a difference. do you or can you exercise regularly? i have started recently and i feel so much better i can't stress it enough.

fisher can you remind me what your maintenance was and how long it took you to get to 2mgs? i should look because i think you mentioned it. sorry i'm new here and am still kind of finding my way around.

is it ok on these boards to ask where you both are? i mean as in what states at least? i've never been in a chat room or a message board before so i don't know what the boundaries are. i'm just curious.

thanks to you both. i'm off this morning to the mountains for the holiday, but will definitelt check in every chance i get. i'm off to start my book entitled 'taper tales of the rich and famous' !!

by the way banker, i think it's important to stress we can always move back up a little bit as fisher said. it should be a very last resort i think but if you have to promise yourself ahead of time not to stress on it. i always tell people when they ask me about my recovery, that it's constantly 2 steps forward and 1 step back. the important thing is that we're moving forward, not the speed. we will get there.

fisher you are doing so great. thank you for sharing all this. it helps more than you can imagine.

Good morning guys... I feel yucky this a.m. Went on a date and stayed up VERY late.. no sleep and I simply can't function like that. So I may not be on much today.

I want so badly to be normal and not even need Sub. I wish I could go back and reverse what I did... not just Sub but w/Lortab... it's so sickening after watching my mother die from it (which I just realized I dreamed about her last night... can't remember the details) but how could I do EXACTLY what she did when her addiction caused me so much pain and anger? It just doesn't make sense... How stupid can a person be?

I can't count how many times I've heard that speech about 'breaking the circle' when someone has bad parents and it's so easy to fall into that roll because it's all you know... I mean, I try so hard to be a better parent every day. It's so difficult when you know that you can screw up your kids at the drop of a hat... I think about this a lot when I think of coming off of Sub. It scares me. I can't even believe I was doing what I was doing last year... It just seems like a freakin' nightmare.

I try to justify saying 'well, lortabs don't mess you up like Somas and other 'downers' do' which is what my mother took the entire time... until the end when she switched to lortabs... But the reality is that I wasn't myself when I was on those pills and I know that I detached myself from my kids. I could tell when I started on Sub... Lord please forgive me. Fisherman, do you 'feel' different now that you are not on Sub? In other words, do you think that I am myself right now? I certainly do not feel 'high' or anything... As you guys can tell, it's not going to be a good day. I have to go break up my 'big cat' and the new kitten from fighting. Not really but they are about to. Take care and maybe throw in an extra prayer for me today... feeling guilty about my kids bigtime!!!

My kind friend Banker,

It actually took the Suboxone to make me see the error of my ways. I was living in a world that was not rational. It makes me sick to think of all the foolish things I did. So don't beat yourself up. Your kids will not suffer and you have all the time in the world to correct the any wrongs.

I am sorry you feel lousey today. I guess when can form the "feeling down and dirty" club. LOL I bet we could recruit a few members. Poor Methadone man is breaking my heart. I remember day 5 and I tapered. He must be almost as close to feeling hopeless and dead as you can get. I just hope he don't wait and gets some help soon.

I feel mentally the same as when I was on my maintnance dose of Sub. I can't recall any real foolish things I did while on Sub. So your will be aware of everything. It's it just hurts so very bad.

I am with you on any route you choose on the Sub. I really wish you wouldnt let weight be your motivating factor. If I had to do it all over again , I would wean over a 6 month period instead of a 6 week. However, Everyone is different and I am here to be your cheerleader.

As you know I have chronic pain so I been on that board some too. I am fixing to throw out a big question for the pain people on this board. How do you deal with real honest medium to severe pain?

You know I never had any pain while I was using the Sub. Maybe it was just enough to keep it at bay. I really have a lot of soul searching to do.
Please respond to that post when i get around to it.

I will need some input,
your good friend,
fisherman