pcovers
09-01-2004, 08:44 AM
The primary intent of the study was to demonstrate greater effectiveness in reducing "events" through the use of high dose Zocor. The study results were just released and the findings indicate no greater benefit from high dose (80mg) treatment than the standard lower dose of 20mg.
While it did not demonstrate what I am sure Merck wished it had, it did confirm what was already known about the incredibly low incidents of side effects. Of the 4500 patients in the study, the higher dose did demonstrate higher incidents of side effects / muscle weakness (nine patients). However, of those taking the standard lower dose, no patients complained of muscle issues and one patient in the placebo complained of such problems.
Bottom line: No apparent additional benefit from upping the dose. Confirmation of the reams of data already in existence of the extremely low incidents of side effects and particularly muscle weakness and pain.
While it did not demonstrate what I am sure Merck wished it had, it did confirm what was already known about the incredibly low incidents of side effects. Of the 4500 patients in the study, the higher dose did demonstrate higher incidents of side effects / muscle weakness (nine patients). However, of those taking the standard lower dose, no patients complained of muscle issues and one patient in the placebo complained of such problems.
Bottom line: No apparent additional benefit from upping the dose. Confirmation of the reams of data already in existence of the extremely low incidents of side effects and particularly muscle weakness and pain.
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zip2play
09-01-2004, 09:39 AM
Good to see you back, Pcovers :wave: ...we were talking behind your back yesterday:D:D.
I tried to read between the lines in the article in the NEW YORK TIMES yesterday. As I reacall, they called the significant side effect "myopathy." Perhaps if they had used MYALGIA as a standard, they'd have come up with lots more complainers. Myopathy, as they used it, might be synonymous with rhabdomyolysis, or worse, cardiomyopathy, a very severe state of affairs.
Can you imagine a more bizarre dosing schedule for the study:
One group, 2,265 patients, were assigned at random to aggressive treatment, meaning 40 milligrams of Zocor a day for 30 days and then 80 milligrams a day. A second group, 2,232 patients, took placebos for four months and then 20 milligrams of Zocor a day. They were followed for six months to two years.
It seems GUARANTEED to cause confusion.
What I found MOST startling was:
Dr. Steven E. Nissen, a cardiologist at the Cleveland Clinic, who wrote an editorial accompanying the Zocor report, said in a telephone interview that the study suggests that not all statins are alike. He noted that 80-milligram doses of another statin, Lipitor, did not seem to cause muscle problems. He added that the dose of Zocor most commonly used, 40 milligrams a day, was safe and not associated with muscle problems.
Given that 80 mg. Lipitor is a HUGE dose compared to 80 mg. Zocor, I find that claim to be unlikely. Did they even TEST Lipitor? I wonder how they define EDITORIAL, and I'd LOVE to see Dr. Nissens souces of income over the last few years (such a cynic :jester: )
Hey, maybe simvastatin might be going generic soon and they are discrediting it? Naaah, they wouldn't play dirty, not just for a few tens of $$billion$$ ;)
I'd like to read the original when it comes out in JAMA Sept.15 and grind through their numbers. In the meantime, I'm chugging on with my 10 mg. Lipitor (5 years), fish oil, lecithin, CoQ10, 2 mg. folic acid, LOTS of excercise (often to maximum heart rate to build collatterals (140 for this old duffer), lowish saturated fats, no trans fats, and calorie control. I wish I could peek at my still shiny stent <prayerfully falling on knees in front of the keyboard.:D>
I tried to read between the lines in the article in the NEW YORK TIMES yesterday. As I reacall, they called the significant side effect "myopathy." Perhaps if they had used MYALGIA as a standard, they'd have come up with lots more complainers. Myopathy, as they used it, might be synonymous with rhabdomyolysis, or worse, cardiomyopathy, a very severe state of affairs.
Can you imagine a more bizarre dosing schedule for the study:
One group, 2,265 patients, were assigned at random to aggressive treatment, meaning 40 milligrams of Zocor a day for 30 days and then 80 milligrams a day. A second group, 2,232 patients, took placebos for four months and then 20 milligrams of Zocor a day. They were followed for six months to two years.
It seems GUARANTEED to cause confusion.
What I found MOST startling was:
Dr. Steven E. Nissen, a cardiologist at the Cleveland Clinic, who wrote an editorial accompanying the Zocor report, said in a telephone interview that the study suggests that not all statins are alike. He noted that 80-milligram doses of another statin, Lipitor, did not seem to cause muscle problems. He added that the dose of Zocor most commonly used, 40 milligrams a day, was safe and not associated with muscle problems.
Given that 80 mg. Lipitor is a HUGE dose compared to 80 mg. Zocor, I find that claim to be unlikely. Did they even TEST Lipitor? I wonder how they define EDITORIAL, and I'd LOVE to see Dr. Nissens souces of income over the last few years (such a cynic :jester: )
Hey, maybe simvastatin might be going generic soon and they are discrediting it? Naaah, they wouldn't play dirty, not just for a few tens of $$billion$$ ;)
I'd like to read the original when it comes out in JAMA Sept.15 and grind through their numbers. In the meantime, I'm chugging on with my 10 mg. Lipitor (5 years), fish oil, lecithin, CoQ10, 2 mg. folic acid, LOTS of excercise (often to maximum heart rate to build collatterals (140 for this old duffer), lowish saturated fats, no trans fats, and calorie control. I wish I could peek at my still shiny stent <prayerfully falling on knees in front of the keyboard.:D>
pcovers
09-01-2004, 10:52 AM
Given that 80 mg. Lipitor is a HUGE dose compared to 80 mg. Zocor, I find that claim to be unlikely. Did they even TEST Lipitor? I wonder how they define EDITORIAL, and I'd LOVE to see Dr. Nissens souces of income over the last few years
There was a similar study done already on high dose Liptor. See the following for a report on the study, but not the official study write-up itself:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3475817/
There was a similar study done already on high dose Liptor. See the following for a report on the study, but not the official study write-up itself:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3475817/