I just don't know what to do anymore.

I had a cholesterol check on Friday - here are the numbers.

TC 258
LDL 177
HDL 67
Trigs 72

Homocysteine - normal
c-reactive protein normal

My total was 248 2 months ago with an LDL of 167.

For the last 2 months I have been knocking myself out with diet.
I take cholesterol success, Omega 3 capsules, flaxseed oil, co-enzyme Q-10, multivitamins. I ate honey nut cheerios, fat free this and fat free that. My orange juice is the kind that is supposed to lower cholesterol. I use Smart beat spread on my bread and vegetables. Typical dinner is a healthy choice frozen dinner.

I had asked my doctor for a measured LDL rather than a calculated LDL. Evidently the lab can't do that or something.

She wants to put me on Zocor. I am so afraid of these medications. I am VERY allergic. If there is a side effect to be had from any medication, I always get it.

2 years ago I lowered my TC from 287 to 219 using diet so I know I can manipulate the numbers.

Does anybody know what I am doing wrong.

PS: I am not obese, no high blood pressure, not diabetic, don't smoke.

What am I doing wrong?????

Wow! I have always had the same suspicion about my cholesterol problem. I was hospitalized for depression in 1983. I had a lot of physicial symptoms so they ran every test in the book on me. The only thing that came up was high cholesterol.

I have always suspected that the greatest risk I have for heart disease is not cholesterol but managing the anxiety/depression which I have complained about to my doctor but she does not seem to want to get involved with that.

There is a history of anxiety/depression and OCD in my family. Looking at it from that perspective I guess if anxiety and high cholesterol go hand in hand, then my doctor is right in one perspective - this is hereditary.

molly,

My mom was like you in that no matter WHAT the poor soul ate, she had high cholesterol numbers and eventually died of heart disease. She spent 5 years drinking skim milk which she despised and giving up butter and cheese and eating no meat but fish and chicken all to no avail.
She died just after the first statin was popularized and never took any; poor timing.
Some people just have no luck at lowering their LDL despite their best efforts without drugs.
You can choose to believe the very few doctors (quacks) who sell MANY, MANY books by selling the pleasant thought that high levels of bloodfats are not harmful- and GOOD for us even, but then, by the same token, there are still a bunch of marrrooooons running around preaching that AIDS doesn't exist. These "flat-earthers" will always be with us and have a tendencey to crawl from the floorboards more readily with the Internet.

If and when you decide that a high LDL (as you have) is dangerous and that you can't get it down to respectable levels without drug intervention, then you'll join a LARGE flock of people who take them every day with the prospect of a longer, fuller life.
I enjoy superb numbers after 5 years of Lipitor and my dearest friend had been on Zocor 20's with nothing but good results (not a single sore joint) for 3 years.

p.s. Zocor just went over-the-counter in U.K. this year at $15 a month for the 20's. It was deemed THAT safe.

I guess what confuses me is that my aunt is 83 years old. She has high cholesterol. She has high blood pressure. She is extremely overweight. She smokes. Chocolate and butter are the staples of her diet.

I will also admit to you that my aunt has psychiatric issues too. My aunt WANTS to die. She always has. And you would think that with this lifestyle that she would have been dead 20 years ago but can't seem to push her body over the edge.

Yet I have read that half of all people with normal cholesterol develop heart disease.

My mother's cholesterol was over 300 when she was my age. Now at 78 it is 192 and she never took medication for it. The numbers just dropped after she passed menopause. Her doctors joke today and say she is probably going to outlive me.

Over the years it has come up normal but those were years when I was an exercise freak. These numbers were just 5 years ago. LDL was 103 and HDL was 82.

When I was 27 I almost died from the side effects of a very common and popular prescription drug. It was then that I was diagnosed with high cholesterol. Quite higher than it is today. It was 309 back then. But back then the doctors were kind of ho-hum about it. That was 21 years ago. I just wish the damn numbers would kill me already so I could know for sure.

I'm sorry but there is just something about the whole theory of cholesterol that just doesn't square in my head.
:confused:

The only reason we make any progress at all is larely due to those who have the guts to enact changes by challenging the prevailing conventional wisdom, or status quo.

Molly I've been on 40 mg Zocor for 2 1/2 years with no problems. I have regular liver function tests that are always good and my numbers are enviable. LDL has been below 70 for over a year.

An LDL of 70 is for individuals in the highest risk category so I am assuming you are already a heart patient or diabetic. Clearly not my situation.

What I find disturbing is the prescribing of these drugs prophylactily to otherwise healthy people who could be irreversibly be harmed. These are not benign drugs by any stretch of the immagination. All in reponse to blood test numbers that the medical community clearly does not understand yet. :eek:

THAT is wreckless medicine

My doctor told me to go back to the drawing board, review my diet and determine what it was that caused the spike. I think I know what they were.

I managed to drop my LDL over 60 points 2 years ago by diet and exercise alone. I can (and will) do it again.

Hi Molly! I am one of your buddies form the meonpause board. I too question the whole cholesterol thing. I am holding off on meds also. I might start the Red rice yeast thing w/ Cq10. The HRT is the perfect example of being wrong about a drug. When i told my OBGYN that I felt I was in perimenopause, he didnt even suggest HRT and I wouldnt have taken it. I think God that I am in a generation that will not be perscribled that drug. I am sucking up peri as naturally as I can. I just wanted to say hi Molly and know you are not alone in being confused bout this whole thing. I just have to have faith in knowing that God has our days numbered and Heaven is going to be a BEAUTIFUL place! I dont think there will be reports of shootings and murders on the 10:00 news in heaven(our news cast is depressing!) :angel:

Do they want to prevent diseases or sell more meds? Not sure. They certainly want to prevent malpractice claims. I wonder what the stats are on doctors who get sued by patients who have a heart attack and then claim their doctors should have been more aggressive in treating their risk factors?

They get it from both directions. I honestly believe doctors today don't get the satisfaction the predecessors once got. Between the insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and a fat, lazy patient population, it's a wonder anybody goes into the field anymore.

So Bill Clinton is have bypass surgery. A health report in 2001 showed he had high cholesterol and high BP. He is 58. Sobering. Very sobering indeed.

Yeah, the next thing you know, Clinton will be doing Lipitor commercials. But who knows? Maybe he was already taking it.

Hi Molly! I am one of your buddies form the meonpause board. I too question the whole cholesterol thing. I am holding off on meds also. I might start the Red rice yeast thing w/ Cq10. The HRT is the perfect example of being wrong about a drug. When i told my OBGYN that I felt I was in perimenopause, he didnt even suggest HRT and I wouldnt have taken it. I think God that I am in a generation that will not be perscribled that drug. I am sucking up peri as naturally as I can. I just wanted to say hi Molly and know you are not alone in being confused bout this whole thing. I just have to have faith in knowing that God has our days numbered and Heaven is going to be a BEAUTIFUL place! I dont think there will be reports of shootings and murders on the 10:00 news in heaven(our news cast is depressing!) :angel:
Hello Psaml91 - nice to find a friend from the menopause board here. I was thinking about trying that Red Rice Yeast too. I found out about it on this board. Some people seem to have had a lot of success with it. Are your cholesterol numbers similar to mine?? :)

Sorry Molly I got you mixed up with another molly on the nemopause board. No wonder you didnt respond. I am still mixed up though!

Hello Psalm91

I am new to using these boards. I actually did respond to you. If you look at your original message to me you will see it there. Talk about being mixed up. I am not sure how to respond to a specific individual yet.
I have been on the menopause board. Whether I am the person you think I am not sure.

Sorry.

Ok Molly, then maybe I did see you on the meno board. I have always struggled with my cholesterol. It gooes up and down like a yoyo. I can work real hard, lose wieght and it goes down, then here come the holidays. boom up it goes. I am tired of dr right now and the battle I have been in to get it down. Even when i brought it down to 190 the dr still wanted to see my in 3 months. It seems I can never please the drs. Itried lipitor-muscle pain-quit. Tried cholest-off, you name it. The other molly on the meno board is molly123. I think I put the 2 of you as one in my mind LOL!

Dear Psalm91,

I guess whether I am the right Molly or not I am glad to meet someone here with the same struggles I have. I know exactly what you mean about the cholesterol going up and down, especially at holiday time. Come to mention it, I just received today this year's Swiss Colony catalog and I am browsing through all the things in there I can't eat which is just about everything except the candles. If figure if I can get it down from 287 to 219 in 2 months once I can do it again. But to do that I had to go down to 10 grams of fat a day. I read somewhere that that is what a heart patient has to adhere to so I figured it might work for me and it did.

Cholesterol numbers often fluctuate, and they generally run higher in the winter than in the summer. They say the reason for that may be because your blood tends to be thicker in the winter. So, when you say it goes up around the holidays, do you mean Christmas?

Well, you know that Clinton is no doubt getting the best health care available by the best doctors. I doubt that he will even have to deal with claim forms and other cryptic billing statements that frustrate all the rest of us. He probably won't have to pay a cent. I heard today that he was walking around in the hospital in his street clothes. Now who else walks around in their street clothes when they are a patient in the hospital? How come Clinton wasn't required to walk around in that dopey gown that's wide open in the back? :D And why is he even in the hospital right now? Why didn't they tell him to report back on the day he is scheduled for surgery? That's what my father had to do when he had his bypass surgery. I had to drive him to the hospital at 6:00AM on the day he was scheduled for surgery. Wouldn't it be great if we all had such good healthcare? But no, the rest of us are all treated like cattle on some assembly line.

I don't know what Clinton's cholesterol level was, but I'm sure that the doctors will prescribe only what's really necessary for him, unlike the rest of us guinea pigs in the quagmire. :mad:

Cholesterol numbers often fluctuate, and they generally run higher in the winter than in the summer. They say the reason for that may be because your blood tends to be thicker in the winter. So, when you say it goes up around the holidays, do you mean Christmas?

Christmas is a killer - but my definition of the holidays is any day beginning from October 31st through Easter Sunday (traditional leg of lamb).

While Clinton's numbers weren't great, they weren't exactly terrible either. I really don't know what to make of it. But I certainly wish him well, regardless of my personal opinions about him. But deep down inside, I just can't help but think that Pauling was right about all of this. And until somebody comes up with a more plausible explanation for what is going on, I will continue to believe him and follow his recommendations.

While Clinton's numbers weren't great, they weren't exactly terrible either. I really don't know what to make of it. But I certainly wish him well, regardless of my personal opinions about him. But deep down inside, I just can't help but think that Pauling was right about all of this. And until somebody comes up with a more plausible explanation for what is going on, I will continue to believe him and follow his recommendations.

Can you expand on Pauling's theory about cholesterol? I am not familiar with it.

molly,

I'll take some of the burden off ARIZONA'S harried shoulders.
In a nutshell, Linus Pauling and his discliple, a Dr. Rath, claimed that VITAMIN C CURES HEART DISEASE...and pretty much everything else that has ever plagued mankind.

Molly,

Pauling and Rath didn't just blindly propose their theory. There is science behind it, and they offer a very plausible scientific explanation for what they have proposed. It has now been 15 years since this theory was proposed, and thus far it has been largely ignored by both the media and mainstream medicine. Yes, the theory primarily revolves around a sub-optimal intake of Vitamin C. Unlike most animals, who can manufacture their own Vitamin C at the human equivalent of between 2000-18,000mg, humans must get an optimal intake from diet. But in many instances, our intake falls far short of what we require. We may take in enough Vitamin C to avoid the acute form of scurvy, but a chronically lower than optimal intake will eventually damage and weaken the arterial wall. That's when the trouble starts. Atherosclerosis generally takes decades to develop. The laying down of plaque is our body's way of repairing a weakened or damaged artery. Believe it or not, this process is actually saving our life. Otherwise, the artery would hemorrhage, and we would probably die much sooner as a result. On the other hand, animals, which manufacture large quantities of Vitamin C, do not develop atherosclerosis. Animals can even make Vitamin C from sugar. In humans, sugar actually competes with Vitamin C, further increasing our requirement. So, is it any wonder why diabetics, who have high blood sugar levels, are far more susceptible to developing atherosclerosis?

Anyway, here is a link that explains the Vitamin C connection. I think that you will find it quite interesting. You can also do a search for more information by typing in "Pauling-Rath Theory" in your browser. One particularly good article is the on entitled "Vitamin C, Collagen, and the Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease." Unfortunately, I cannot post that link, since it is copyrighted. But I think you'll find this one interesting.

http://www.orthomed.org/links/papers/rathpau.htm

While Clinton's numbers weren't great, they weren't exactly terrible either. I really don't know what to make of it. But I certainly wish him well, regardless of my personal opinions about him. But deep down inside, I just can't help but think that Pauling was right about all of this. And until somebody comes up with a more plausible explanation for what is going on, I will continue to believe him and follow his recommendations.

I posted a separtate thread on Clinton, but it was apparently deleted :confused: , so I'll post the info I found on this thread.

Clinton had a Total of 233 and LDL of 177 in Jan of 2001 and he was put on cholesterol meds at that time. At some point thereafter, he discontinued the medication because it returned to normal :nono:. This fact was mentioned recently in an interview with him on TV. He most certainly will be put back on a statin after the surgery. The LDL of 177 was certainly a "RED FLAG".

Okay, then I guess his numbers were actually worse than the 1999 numbers that Molly posted. Do you have any information as to whether or not Clinton experienced side-effects?

Okay, then I guess his numbers were actually worse than the 1999 numbers that Molly posted. Do you have any information as to whether or not Clinton experienced side-effects?

That I don't know....however, he stated that he discontinued because his #s got back to normal. I'm sure his Dr did NOT approve of that decision.

Yes, I'm sure his doctor must have told him that the numbers would revert right back to where they were. Clinton is an intelligent person, so I think he must have realized it too. So, why would he just stop taking the Zocor if he wasn't having problems with it? Well, maybe we'll find out eventually.

Basic source of info on cholesterol..this may clear up some of the "confusion"

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/cholesterol/index.htm

I always wondered if doctors with elevated cholesterol levels are practicing what they preach. So, you say that this RN said that of all those doctors she had worked for, none of them are taking these drugs, yet they prescribe them to their patients? Interesting! Thanks for passing that information along. I've always suspected that doctors have two sets of standards. Maybe they're taking a lot of Vitamin C and other antioxidants instead. :D

molly...quit knocking yourself out. Your ratio is 3.8, which is very favorable. Your body will actually produce more cholesterol if you do not have it in your diet. You might want to cut back on the refined sugars and starchs. That should produce more results. Homocystine level is important and is probably a better indicator than the cholesterol. Relax a little, the stress can lower your magnesium, which in turn can raise cholesterol levels. Don't take the Zocor, you don't need it.

Well, the numbers may appear nice. But that's all they are, just numbers. I still say the best advice out there is to faithfully follow Pauling's recommendation, regardless of whether or not it has been clinically proven. Why? Because it makes sense, that's why. Even the Willis studies, which were conducted 50 years ago, establishes a strong case for high dose Vitamin C supplementation. Pauling has since expanded on that study, and has included the Lp(a) binding inhibitors Lysine and Proline, along with other important antioxidants. Although people who have tried this approach have reported good results, mainstream medicine still keeps it's head in the sand and refuses to take a serious look at it.

I recall one Dr mentioning that Clinton may have had some "inflamatory process" that caused the plaque to break up...resulting in the blockage. I'm a big advocate of daily ASPRIN therapy..something I've been taking for well over 10 years.

If he had an "inflammatory process" going on, wouldn't that have shown up in tests such as homocysteine or c-reactive protein??

The news said his LDL was 177 (I guess up from 134 in 1999). Does anyone know what the HDL in relation to the 177 result or the Tryglycerides count???

Molly