I guess we'll all be hearing lots about his heart problem. Might as well be localized here.

My gut feeling, absent a whole lot of information, is that they might have jumped the gun here. Noboby seems interested in any more conservative measures for him. I'd like to know exactly why they ruled out stenting of some of the blockages and medicationg those that can't be stented for whatever reason.

For myself, I never would allow bypass after only angina pain ONCE! In fact I ordered the doctors not to do surgery after my angiogram without consulting with a fully awake ME or my legal representative in the waiting room. I would only permit stenting, which I got very successfully (angina gone), and that was after 5 YEARS of angina discomfort.

Angina was the reason that beta-blockers and calcium channel blockers were DEVELOPED...now are they to be relegated to treating everybody's blood pressure? If they really don't work for angina, they should all be dumped into the sea, not used for another function (that they perform poorly.)

I wish the last elected president of the U.S.A. very well and I hope he has a speedy recovery.

Zip and Word,

I have a sneaking suspicion that Clinton has been symptomatic for quite a while.

My guess is that post-op, we'll be hearing about a much longer history of angina and that this wasn't a first "episode" for him. Whatd'ya think?


zuzu xxx

Well, maybe he had prior symptoms and maybe he didn't. Either way, if the doctors feel that the extent of his blockages is significant, they're still likely to advise having surgery. When my father had triple-bypass surgery 10 years ago, he had never experienced any chest pains. But doctors have a way of scaring people half to death. Sure, he could have opted not to have surgery. But once they put that thought in your head, it's pretty difficult to get rid of it.

I really didn't need the doctors to scare me half to death. My first episode of angina did that for me.

It says in the CNN article that he was reported as having high cholesterol and borderline hypertension in 2001, nothing about any previous chest pain other than the recent occurance that had him rushing to the hospital. Maybe it was the first time, he got scared (wouldn't we all?) and docs kicked in with their Pavlovian response: OPERATE!!!! ;)

Granted, his docs know a lot more about his condition than we can speculate.

Wordworks,

Ten years ago, prior to undergoing triple bypass surgery, my father first had a catherization performed. Well, following the procedure, some surgeon walked into the room and handed my father his card. He told my father that he wanted to do the surgery in a few days, and that he would need a quintuple bypass. He made it sound as though my father would drop dead the moment he got up. Before I drove my father home, they also put a nitroglycerin patch on his chest, even though he had never even complained of any chest pains. Needless to say, the doctors had us all a little scared!

Anyway, while I was driving home on a busy highway, my father passed out in the front seat, and there was nowhere for me to pull over. After shaking him a few times, he finally regained consciousness. When we finally got home and took that patch off, he felt much better, although he was still visibly shaken by what the doctors told him.

Since he had been told that his situation was serious, we went ahead and cancelled a much anticipated vacation plan. In the meantime, my father visited another surgeon for a second opinion. This surgeon also recommended surgery, but said that he would only need a triple, not a quintuple bypass. He also said that it was not an emergency, and besides, the surgeon was scheduled to be away on vacation for a few weeks.

Following the surgery, my father was also told that he had a strong heart, even though he had blockages and no chest pain. I told my father to ask the surgeon if he had any collateral circulation. When my father asked him about that, the surgeon just shrugged and said, "yeah, some."

Was the surgery really necessary? I can't really say. But to this day, I still often wonder about that.

Aha, the Clinton pplot thickens. From his the chief cardiologist at Columbia Presbyterian:
Schwartz said Clinton became short of breath and suffered some chest pain months ago after physical activity and that the situation deteriorated until a few days ago when he suffered those symptoms after resting.


The operation had been delayed until Monday to allow blood thinners Clinton had taken to dissipate to reduce the risk of bleeding during surgery.



So he does have a history of anginal pain and was taking meds to prevent clot formation (my guess is PLAVIX.) I guess they tried their hand at some conservative measures while his angina worsened from "stable" to "unstable." Since he's had the closest medical scrutiny as president from 1992-2000, I'm sure his medical history would fill volumes...we'll never really know the whole picture. (Unless he starts POSTING:D:D:D)

I too think that they jumped the gun on Clinton as the same thing happened to me. When you have an acute spell, they want to do surgery if you have proven blockages (which I do). I forced them to do angiplasty and stents to try and stop the angina. When they finally put their foot down and said no more, you must have a CARB. I walked out of the hospital. They would not sign me out in "your condition", I had to sign myself out AGAINST MEDICAL ADVICE. They also double and triple teamed me and said I would die within 2 months!!!! That was 2 1/2 years ago. Yes I have angina spells but I take Nitro and keep going. I must have had collaterial arteries to form because I have am better and know that I had severe blockages at my last angiogram.

I am sure that there will be those of us that will die sooner or later with Heart Problems but I will not be one that will die with a hugh scar down my chest. :nono: Let them make their money off someone else.

Yes- let them make their money off somebody else.

I just saw 5 patients. After each one, I went to my office and took out my calculator and thought: a pacemaker- thats $500. Ooooh an ablation- that's $2500, oooh an ICD- thats $1500. Boy, I need to make a mortgage payment- let me try and convince the next patient that they need surgery so I can make that payment. Oh boy, if I get the final patient to agree to surgery, I can make a down payment on a condo in Aspen.

This board is getting ridiculous. I'm glad that most people don't think like you and actually appreciate that some of us went to medical school and 6-9 more years of training to help people. But clearly many have their opinions, and I am glad that I don;'t have many like you in my practice. It would certainly make me think about getting an MBA and working in the corporate world where making a good living is allowed.

Hi guys. You are all way ahead of me. I had the exact surgery the Pres. Clinton just had. I know exactly how he feels now. The only thing I object to is at first they said it would be one month until he was back to normal. Then they said two months. Now they are saying three months. I know everyone is different, but its been one year for me and I'm just now feeling back to normal. I have some of the cognitive damage they were talking about. I reach for a word and it eludes me sometimes. I have some short term memory loss from the bypass machine.

They told me the same thing they told him. Without the surgery I would have probably had a massive heart attack. I had three vessels 95% blocked and another 70%.

I still have numbness in my legs from the harvest of the vein and the groin catheters they insert to drain the blood from your body. I still if under stress or very tired feel my sternum where they split it. And, I still get overtired sometimes. But, I do hope that what they told me was true. I hope I have lengthened my life with this procedure. My last checkup was good.

I do think they should explain to people that this is a major, major surgery. I have had other surgeries before (hysterectomy, c-section, rotator cuff repair, etc.) Nothing prepared me for how I felt postop after they operated on my heart. My cardiologist told me that the heart is the body's engine and when you have had engine work it exhausts you and takes a long time for the body to recover. She was right. The cardiac surgeon talked to me like I would be up and running after 6-8 weeks. Maybe some people do, I didn't.

When I saw Hilary on t.v. she talked like oh, he'll be fine, up and around soon, etc. I hope so for his sake.

When I was 19 I had Hodgkins,,,I underwent Chemo and Radiation. The radiation treatment caused 5 of my arteries to be blocked and at the age of 27 I also had qudroople bypass surgery. It was the most painful thing you could ever imagine. I was 27 years old, cracked open like a Lobster and to this day , im still not 100%. Im 37 now! I feel the wire in my chest holding me together, and I still dont breath or feel the same. I never will. Im sure that they saved my life though and if I didnt have the surgery I would probably allready be dead. I mean who would hve thought that a 27 year old could need bypass surgery? They took an arterie from my left arm and an arterie from my chest ,,,nothing from my legs! Thank god. Anyway Im still here, I take Altace and Coreg to keep my EF up and asprin 2x a day. But I have to say,,,Clinton is in so much pain now , they dont tell you that. Its only been 4 days and I know hes hurting bad. After my surgery I couldnt sleep on a bed or 3 months. I had to sleep in a chair sitting up for 3 months before I could lay down and not be in pain. I still am not comfortable sleeping every night from the surgery. So what do we learn from this? Yes I needed the surgery, and yes im glad I had it,,,but it was and still is the worst thing you could ever go through. And Ive been through alot!.

Take care.

Steven: I hear you! I have never had pain like that in my life. Your chest hurts every time your chest rises and falls, but Lord--you have to breathe! Yes Bill Clinton is in pain right now. I had a hard time finding a comfortable position to sleep also right after surgery. I used to use my Lamaze breathing to help with the pain, believe it or not it did help (or at least distracted my screwed up head for awhile!).

I wish him well. I hope he recuperates quickly. If they keep showing all the "statistics" on the tv I'm going to hang myself though :D :D I'm like "quit telling me all the bad stuff".

This is to "Test 5629" (a Physician) that posted the message that he was sick of us!

I DO appreciate my Cardiologist BUT he allows me to make an Educated decision after he has allowed me time to read all the info on different options. When I opted to go with the Angioplastys he said he understood. The other Doc's in his group did not like it that he was allowing me to not have a Bypass when they all thought I needed one. While he was out of the Country, they double and triple teamed me and tried to FORCE me to do the Bypass!!!! I have now lived this way since July 2002. I should have the opportunity to make my own decision. The Doctor's DO NOT tell you the truth about what a Bypass is like because they know you would never have it . I still think that if they do not try Angioplasty or meds first , they are "going for the bucks". I am sorry that you do not agree, but you are NOT the one laying down on the table and getting cut open and having it change your life forever. Why would they not TRY the other cheaper methods first????

You mention "going for the bucks"- How much do you think a cardiologist makes for a bypass: ZERO. For a cardiologist to recommend bypass over stenting means he/she is giving away any opportunity to make any money. Cardiologists do not perform bypass, they do stenting. Thus the logic of a cardiologist recommending bypass to make money is utterly ridiculous and misinformed.

If a cardiologist recommends stenting for someone who should have bypass, then you have an argument.

Also, there are more people out there with no problems after bypass than this forum would make it seem. This forum, I have noticed is geared toward negative outcomes. The overwhelming number of people who have a good outcome are not on forums like this complaining.

Having said all that, every case is different. I cannot say whether one person should or should not have any procedure. But the arguments about money just don't make sense. They just sound good to people who feel disenfranchised with the system and need a place and forum to vent their frustrations. So if you or anyone else thinks that I make any money by sending someone to bypass (performed by a physician in a different specialty, who collects for the procedure, NOT ME or ANY CARDIOLOGIST) then you will continue to be misinformed and cannot be persuaded. So live with that delusion if it helps you sleep at night.

test,

I agree with much of what you say and I was AMAZED how little my cardiologist (top flight NYC guy) made from my STENT procedure (about a grand.).

I disagree with your estimate of a board geared to negative outcomes. Almost ALL of the "stented" seem pretty happy with the results and freely say so (me, for example). If most of the bypassed are not so happy, well then it really does say something about the comparative differences in the procedures.

Had I been "bypassed" I'd have been here reporting what happened and searching for ways to keep the vessels open and what I can expect recoverywise. THis would have happened if I hated the procedure or loved it (seems unlikely:D.) I do know only one person who needed bypass and he needeed it TWICE. He said if he'd known the pain, he'd have preferred an early death.(He's dead)

Personally I see bypass as a dinosaur procedure whose gross approach is only made necessary by the current physical limitations of angio approaches. I am CERTAIN that in a couple decades EVERYTHING will be done through a catheter and super micro-surgical techniques.
Doctor's will laugh at the bad old days where patients were sawed in half and had legs torn apart to get veins to simply bypass problems rather than cure them.

Zip2play,

Yes, I think that within 10-15 years conventional bypass surgery will become much less common, thanks to advances in micro-surgical techniques. Technology is really advancing quite rapidly, and I'm already amazed at what they are capable of doing. It wouldn't surprise me if they came out with some tiny rotor-rooter gadget that they can snake through arteries to clear out the plaque. And it wouldn't surprise me if people came in, had the procedure done, and went home the same day. Wishful thinking? Don't laugh, it just might happen in the near future.

I agree, I think advances definately within our lifespan will turn current surgeries that debilitated people for months will become outpatient procedures, amazing stuff :)

Plus who knows with nanotechnology, some really cool advances could come out of it.

ARIZONA
It's happening now...the procedure is called ATHERECTOMY and I also see it as the wave of the future, but since it has a pretty large learning curve so we won't see it sweeep in overnight.
It certainly seems the ideal way to clean out a furring stent!

But for nanotechnology I think we'll have to stick with Stargate and Farscape for a pretty long while.:D:D

atherectomy is actually "older technology" It is not the "future" Preventing the restenosis is the future, either by genetics or newer drugs in the stents. Atherectomy doesn't solve the problem, it just cleans it out.

undefined :angel: Am sure with most political fiquires we aren't being told the truth .....It wasn't sexual intercourse .....now was it !!! guess it depends on how you look at it . Blu :nono: Wish Bill well none the less and a speedy recovery and a happy and healthy heart ! And wish he was back @ the the Big White House too but that's another thread .

My 2 cents: The solution or a giant step to ward off artery disease and a subsequent heart condition will be prevention and not invasive intervention post facto.