Isew4work
10-04-2004, 07:07 PM
HI,
I used to post on here a couple of years ago. I see a few names that still are faithful to helping people and I commend you all for staying with it. I got to where the best thing I could do for my tmj was just go on with my life. I didn't feel like I had much to help anyone with since I can't seem to get better myself.
Here is my current condition, and question. I went to see a new tmj doctor after my first one reccommended I have an arthroscopy done to my jaw (small incisions, water injected into the joint to flush out loose cartilege) At that point my jaw had locked shut at about 25 mm until I met with this new guy. He is very non surgical and made me a splint that I wear on my bottom teeth at night. I also purchased a tens unit which helps very much. But these two solutions are treating the tmj sypmtoms but not the tmj problem. I have an underdevoped lower jaw, its much shorter than my top jaw, and my top jaw is underdevoped in the very middle. I have a cross bite and severe overbite. The problem with my splint is that I sleep with my mouth wide open so it does not get much chance to work very well. I asked my DR to make one for me that will lock my jaw shut, like with an upper rim too, to keep my teeth in place. But I have a deviated septum and cannot breathe with my mouth shut.
So here is my question because I have now been told by two orthodontists that my teeth cannot be fixed with braces. I know that there are many many failed attempts of fixing the jaw joint is of itself. But are there as bad of chances for me if I were to allow my dr. (who is an oral surgeon but only does surgery on the jaw once or twice a year when everything else has failed, and refuses to ever touch a jaw joint itself) to reconstruct my jaw bones so that they line up? IT would be a horrible surgery and one that I really never want to deal with.
To those people who are fixing jaw joint problems, disks and such, you must understand that the jaw will be unhealthy again very soon because the problem is from your teeth not lining up in the first place. The joint is just a bad side effect.
I have devoloped such a bad case of ulcers from the motrin that helps the headaches and actual jaw pain. I just thought I might look into this idea. I have not even consulted with my Dr. in over a year, I just keep that splint in and use my tens machine. I was told just a few weeks ago by my son's orthodontist that there is no way my teeth could be fixed by braces and since she was the 3rd person now to tell me this I thougth I would ask how other's jaw reconstruction surgeries have gone.
Sorry so lengthly!! Thanks for your opinion.
Mary Z in MIchigan
I used to post on here a couple of years ago. I see a few names that still are faithful to helping people and I commend you all for staying with it. I got to where the best thing I could do for my tmj was just go on with my life. I didn't feel like I had much to help anyone with since I can't seem to get better myself.
Here is my current condition, and question. I went to see a new tmj doctor after my first one reccommended I have an arthroscopy done to my jaw (small incisions, water injected into the joint to flush out loose cartilege) At that point my jaw had locked shut at about 25 mm until I met with this new guy. He is very non surgical and made me a splint that I wear on my bottom teeth at night. I also purchased a tens unit which helps very much. But these two solutions are treating the tmj sypmtoms but not the tmj problem. I have an underdevoped lower jaw, its much shorter than my top jaw, and my top jaw is underdevoped in the very middle. I have a cross bite and severe overbite. The problem with my splint is that I sleep with my mouth wide open so it does not get much chance to work very well. I asked my DR to make one for me that will lock my jaw shut, like with an upper rim too, to keep my teeth in place. But I have a deviated septum and cannot breathe with my mouth shut.
So here is my question because I have now been told by two orthodontists that my teeth cannot be fixed with braces. I know that there are many many failed attempts of fixing the jaw joint is of itself. But are there as bad of chances for me if I were to allow my dr. (who is an oral surgeon but only does surgery on the jaw once or twice a year when everything else has failed, and refuses to ever touch a jaw joint itself) to reconstruct my jaw bones so that they line up? IT would be a horrible surgery and one that I really never want to deal with.
To those people who are fixing jaw joint problems, disks and such, you must understand that the jaw will be unhealthy again very soon because the problem is from your teeth not lining up in the first place. The joint is just a bad side effect.
I have devoloped such a bad case of ulcers from the motrin that helps the headaches and actual jaw pain. I just thought I might look into this idea. I have not even consulted with my Dr. in over a year, I just keep that splint in and use my tens machine. I was told just a few weeks ago by my son's orthodontist that there is no way my teeth could be fixed by braces and since she was the 3rd person now to tell me this I thougth I would ask how other's jaw reconstruction surgeries have gone.
Sorry so lengthly!! Thanks for your opinion.
Mary Z in MIchigan
Sponsor
analog2000
10-05-2004, 12:22 AM
are there as bad of chances for me if I were to allow my dr. (who is an oral surgeon but only does surgery on the jaw once or twice a year when everything else has failed, and refuses to ever touch a jaw joint itself) to reconstruct my jaw bones so that they line up? IT would be a horrible surgery and one that I really never want to deal with.
I'm confused, is your doc recommending this? I think it is incredibly risky and a bad idea to allow someone who has so little experience with such surgeries to perform one on you. If you did allow your doc to do this, he would essentially be practicing on you, and that isn't what you want. You want someone who has done dozens if not hundreds of surgeries like yours and who knows the procedure cold.
I would really reconsider this. Perhaps your current doc could recommend you to someone more familiar with your specific problems?
Good luck.
I'm confused, is your doc recommending this? I think it is incredibly risky and a bad idea to allow someone who has so little experience with such surgeries to perform one on you. If you did allow your doc to do this, he would essentially be practicing on you, and that isn't what you want. You want someone who has done dozens if not hundreds of surgeries like yours and who knows the procedure cold.
I would really reconsider this. Perhaps your current doc could recommend you to someone more familiar with your specific problems?
Good luck.
Cymy Sue
10-05-2004, 05:36 AM
Hi Mary,
I am sorry to hear you are not doing any better and now have other hard decisions to make about your condition.
Orthognathic or restructuring surgeries are designed to correct severe abnormalities or deformities of the jaws that cannot be corrected by other means. It is a tough surgery to go through. There are many risks and possible complications with these surgeries.
I continue to see the same complication posted by people who have this done.
People who don't already have joint problems or have healthy joints, many times, develop TMJD after the restructuring.
People who already have known joint problems, tend to get much worse.
A surgery of this nature does traumatize and put great stress on the joints.
It's not uncommon with already weak or damaged joints for the condyle(s) to dislocate. Also, I have seen reports of problems with healing when the joints are not healthy enough to withstand this procedure. Scarring and adhesions, and problems as severe as uninteneded bone fusion.
Nerve damage is reported with many. Permanent numbness is not uncommon.
Many people would not think numbness would be a big deal compared to pain.
It is. I was numb from my nose down for almost 16 years. I have recently had some feeling return which is very unusual after so long. Your lips and lower face being totallly numb is not easy to live with.
The muscles react to the new structure of the bones and will overcompensate or overwork and this adds a whole new aspect of muscular pain and problems. This affects the joints unfavorably.
I am sorry to paint such a dire picture of this surgery. I thought at one time , it was just my case. In the last couple of years, I have read much the same from many people. There have been many reports on this board in the last couple of years by people suffering different degrees of problems after having this done. It was not "just" me and the condition of my joints. It's common. If you haven't already, search "orthognathic surgery" on this board and read other members posts. It might help to decide if trying this, is a risk you are willing to take.
I also had a deviated septum and it had not caused a problem with breathing until many years after I had these procedures. With long-term nerve damage, and nerve compression from muscles that never got back to normal, I developed enlarged and atrophied turbinates which closed my nose completely. This problem was related directly back to this surgery.
I had this problem surgically corrected because I couldn't breath through my nose. The septum fixed and the extra turbinate material removed about 3 years ago. This surgery was a breeze compared to the TMJ surgeries I've had and I can breath extremely well again. Maybe this would be something to discuss with your doctor. I had always feared having the septum fixed, but after the problems and pain with the TMJ related surgeries, it was not so bad as I had read and thought it would be. I did have a wonderful surgeon who was aware of the nerve damage and other problems I had from previous surgeries. He did not traumatize or add to the existing problems.This was "one" I got over quickly and did not have any further problems.
I know you begin to feel you have to do "something" to help yourself. Surgery seems to be the only option and we get to the point of believing we could not be any worse. I did it many times.
It always was worse than before.
Please read all you can about people who have this done when they already have damaged, weakened or dysfunctional joints.
There are many good surgeons who can do these procedures with great expertise. They can realign your bite and correct the size of the opposing jaws.
It's been a mystery to me with so many people developing joint problems or existing TMJD worsening, they will still do these restructuring procedures and in all these years have not taken the next step of figuring out how to protect the joints from damage or being traumatized. In reading current reports and posts, they have not. In this respect, this surgery has not progressed at all in the last 2 decades.
From reports I've read here, elsewhere and my own experience, once this is done, they do not know how to help you with what it does to your joints among other common post-surgical problems.
I hope the others here will check in and post their conditions after having this surgery, so you can hear more opinions than mine.
I wish you well with what ever you decide.
Cymy Sue
I am sorry to hear you are not doing any better and now have other hard decisions to make about your condition.
Orthognathic or restructuring surgeries are designed to correct severe abnormalities or deformities of the jaws that cannot be corrected by other means. It is a tough surgery to go through. There are many risks and possible complications with these surgeries.
I continue to see the same complication posted by people who have this done.
People who don't already have joint problems or have healthy joints, many times, develop TMJD after the restructuring.
People who already have known joint problems, tend to get much worse.
A surgery of this nature does traumatize and put great stress on the joints.
It's not uncommon with already weak or damaged joints for the condyle(s) to dislocate. Also, I have seen reports of problems with healing when the joints are not healthy enough to withstand this procedure. Scarring and adhesions, and problems as severe as uninteneded bone fusion.
Nerve damage is reported with many. Permanent numbness is not uncommon.
Many people would not think numbness would be a big deal compared to pain.
It is. I was numb from my nose down for almost 16 years. I have recently had some feeling return which is very unusual after so long. Your lips and lower face being totallly numb is not easy to live with.
The muscles react to the new structure of the bones and will overcompensate or overwork and this adds a whole new aspect of muscular pain and problems. This affects the joints unfavorably.
I am sorry to paint such a dire picture of this surgery. I thought at one time , it was just my case. In the last couple of years, I have read much the same from many people. There have been many reports on this board in the last couple of years by people suffering different degrees of problems after having this done. It was not "just" me and the condition of my joints. It's common. If you haven't already, search "orthognathic surgery" on this board and read other members posts. It might help to decide if trying this, is a risk you are willing to take.
I also had a deviated septum and it had not caused a problem with breathing until many years after I had these procedures. With long-term nerve damage, and nerve compression from muscles that never got back to normal, I developed enlarged and atrophied turbinates which closed my nose completely. This problem was related directly back to this surgery.
I had this problem surgically corrected because I couldn't breath through my nose. The septum fixed and the extra turbinate material removed about 3 years ago. This surgery was a breeze compared to the TMJ surgeries I've had and I can breath extremely well again. Maybe this would be something to discuss with your doctor. I had always feared having the septum fixed, but after the problems and pain with the TMJ related surgeries, it was not so bad as I had read and thought it would be. I did have a wonderful surgeon who was aware of the nerve damage and other problems I had from previous surgeries. He did not traumatize or add to the existing problems.This was "one" I got over quickly and did not have any further problems.
I know you begin to feel you have to do "something" to help yourself. Surgery seems to be the only option and we get to the point of believing we could not be any worse. I did it many times.
It always was worse than before.
Please read all you can about people who have this done when they already have damaged, weakened or dysfunctional joints.
There are many good surgeons who can do these procedures with great expertise. They can realign your bite and correct the size of the opposing jaws.
It's been a mystery to me with so many people developing joint problems or existing TMJD worsening, they will still do these restructuring procedures and in all these years have not taken the next step of figuring out how to protect the joints from damage or being traumatized. In reading current reports and posts, they have not. In this respect, this surgery has not progressed at all in the last 2 decades.
From reports I've read here, elsewhere and my own experience, once this is done, they do not know how to help you with what it does to your joints among other common post-surgical problems.
I hope the others here will check in and post their conditions after having this surgery, so you can hear more opinions than mine.
I wish you well with what ever you decide.
Cymy Sue
Isew4work
10-05-2004, 08:23 AM
Thank you so much for your opinion. I knew that I just needed to hear it one more time. After I got myself hyped up to go ahead and get braces it was disturbing to have the orthodontist tell me that I could not be helped without surgery.
These days I am more pained by the ulcers in my esophogus than I am the tmj itself. It just really bothers me to know how much I rely on IB profin for pain relief and now it has caused me so much other pain.
It is amazing to me how little I actually suffer from TMJ with as bad of a case as I have. I wish it could be fixed but I can honestly see myself living with it forever. The tens unit is a blessing, it really helps out muscle pain. (headaches)
I needed you to remind me of the dangers again. Like I said, I have not even called my TMJ doc for a consultation. I was not sure if I wanted to think that way or not. I will keep in my regiment of splint and tens, while trying to get these ulcers under control. I have had a horrible stomach ache for 2 weeks now. The meds for the ulcers are taking some time to work.
It is hard not to get down a bit over things like birth defected jaws and such. I can only imagine how down I would feel if I experienced the horrible pain of surgery and did not get better, only worse. This healthboard is lifesaver for me. You all kept me from having an arhtoscopic two years ago, and led me to a qualified TMJ specialist.
Thanks again. Thank you for spreading your story Cymy Sue and helping people to look into things further.
Mary
These days I am more pained by the ulcers in my esophogus than I am the tmj itself. It just really bothers me to know how much I rely on IB profin for pain relief and now it has caused me so much other pain.
It is amazing to me how little I actually suffer from TMJ with as bad of a case as I have. I wish it could be fixed but I can honestly see myself living with it forever. The tens unit is a blessing, it really helps out muscle pain. (headaches)
I needed you to remind me of the dangers again. Like I said, I have not even called my TMJ doc for a consultation. I was not sure if I wanted to think that way or not. I will keep in my regiment of splint and tens, while trying to get these ulcers under control. I have had a horrible stomach ache for 2 weeks now. The meds for the ulcers are taking some time to work.
It is hard not to get down a bit over things like birth defected jaws and such. I can only imagine how down I would feel if I experienced the horrible pain of surgery and did not get better, only worse. This healthboard is lifesaver for me. You all kept me from having an arhtoscopic two years ago, and led me to a qualified TMJ specialist.
Thanks again. Thank you for spreading your story Cymy Sue and helping people to look into things further.
Mary
Isew4work
10-05-2004, 09:39 AM
Amy,
I purchased it from my Dr. I can't remember all of the rules. Am I allowed to tell you my Dr.s name? If so I can tell you and you could look up his number, tell them you live out of state but need a tens unit. They may sell you one. I made 6 montly payments of 75.00 for it. That came up to 450.00. Good luck. Mary
I purchased it from my Dr. I can't remember all of the rules. Am I allowed to tell you my Dr.s name? If so I can tell you and you could look up his number, tell them you live out of state but need a tens unit. They may sell you one. I made 6 montly payments of 75.00 for it. That came up to 450.00. Good luck. Mary
CherylLynn24
10-05-2004, 09:49 AM
Hi Mary,
I hope that you don't have the surgery suggested to you. I'm glad to hear that you're hanging in there, even with the additional stomach problems. How has your son been doing? I hope well. This TMJ mess won't be forever, we all just have to find the "right" dentist making the "right" splint. Frustrating.....yes, but possible.
Take Care,
Cheryl
I hope that you don't have the surgery suggested to you. I'm glad to hear that you're hanging in there, even with the additional stomach problems. How has your son been doing? I hope well. This TMJ mess won't be forever, we all just have to find the "right" dentist making the "right" splint. Frustrating.....yes, but possible.
Take Care,
Cheryl