thbrown421
12-21-2004, 04:53 PM
I'd welcome comments/ideas on the following from any and all:
1. I've been researching middle ear myoclonus and its connection with TMJ. Given that I've had a complete neurotological workup with negative results, I can't rule out TMJ as a causitive factor in muscle/somatic tinnitus, right?
2. An accepted treatment for middle ear myoclonus/tinnitus is surgical sectioning of the stapedial and tensor tympani tendons. But would it be not be prudent to opt for a more conservative TMJ approach first, perhaps with the NTI Tension Suppression System?
3. I'm guessing that audiologists would tend to favor the surgical approach and not consider the possibility of a TMJ origin for the myoclonus and tinnitus. That's probably why I hesitate to go back to the neurotologist for "another round" of hearing tests, etc.
4. After reading more information on the NTI appliance, I'm afraid my "night guard" may be doing more harm than good, and may in fact have caused my current myoclonic tinnitus. I've worn it for years to prevent "grinding," and it's simply a molded guard which fits over my top teeth. But it may not prevent "clenching," which as I understand may be the real cause of headaches and other TMJ symptoms.
Any input greatly appreciated,
Tom
1. I've been researching middle ear myoclonus and its connection with TMJ. Given that I've had a complete neurotological workup with negative results, I can't rule out TMJ as a causitive factor in muscle/somatic tinnitus, right?
2. An accepted treatment for middle ear myoclonus/tinnitus is surgical sectioning of the stapedial and tensor tympani tendons. But would it be not be prudent to opt for a more conservative TMJ approach first, perhaps with the NTI Tension Suppression System?
3. I'm guessing that audiologists would tend to favor the surgical approach and not consider the possibility of a TMJ origin for the myoclonus and tinnitus. That's probably why I hesitate to go back to the neurotologist for "another round" of hearing tests, etc.
4. After reading more information on the NTI appliance, I'm afraid my "night guard" may be doing more harm than good, and may in fact have caused my current myoclonic tinnitus. I've worn it for years to prevent "grinding," and it's simply a molded guard which fits over my top teeth. But it may not prevent "clenching," which as I understand may be the real cause of headaches and other TMJ symptoms.
Any input greatly appreciated,
Tom
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westin4
12-21-2004, 09:57 PM
Boy Tom, I can just give you advice based on my personal experience.
Once you have gotten a bite gaurd it is kind of like the chicken and the egg.....you know, which came first the tmj or the bite guard. They can help or they can cause it. I don't know of any instance in which a store bought appliance is ok for tmj.
Now, that being said, I don't know if an NTI is your answer either. I had an Nti and it made me SO much worse. I have had 8 splints and more dentists than that. The one I am going to now has finally hit upon my problem. I need my back molars to rest on something, while my four front teeth don't touch the splint at all. Now, all these years everyone has had me on those front teeth. It could have been the answer in the beginning but after wearing the NTI I develped an open bite in the back and it has been pure heck trying to get this under control.
Surgery?? NO, that is not an option if all avenues of tmj treatment have not been tried. I mean you might find one that will agree to do it, but surgery will probably only open pandora's box as far as tmj goes.
It is VERY difficult to find a good tmj dentist. Anyone can call themselves a "tmj specialist" but one that can really treat it and also most important is one with an open mind. One that believes in the pain that comes with it and one that believes all of the symptoms. It is much to common to find one who can make a splint but then they fall flat because they don't know how to fit it and adjust it. It is really a trial and error process. There is NO fix all for tmj, there just isn't.
I really wish you the best on this endeavor of trying to start getting things under way. Please come and post so we can all keep up on what is going on and hopefully offer tips and advice and most important a lending ear.
Karen
Once you have gotten a bite gaurd it is kind of like the chicken and the egg.....you know, which came first the tmj or the bite guard. They can help or they can cause it. I don't know of any instance in which a store bought appliance is ok for tmj.
Now, that being said, I don't know if an NTI is your answer either. I had an Nti and it made me SO much worse. I have had 8 splints and more dentists than that. The one I am going to now has finally hit upon my problem. I need my back molars to rest on something, while my four front teeth don't touch the splint at all. Now, all these years everyone has had me on those front teeth. It could have been the answer in the beginning but after wearing the NTI I develped an open bite in the back and it has been pure heck trying to get this under control.
Surgery?? NO, that is not an option if all avenues of tmj treatment have not been tried. I mean you might find one that will agree to do it, but surgery will probably only open pandora's box as far as tmj goes.
It is VERY difficult to find a good tmj dentist. Anyone can call themselves a "tmj specialist" but one that can really treat it and also most important is one with an open mind. One that believes in the pain that comes with it and one that believes all of the symptoms. It is much to common to find one who can make a splint but then they fall flat because they don't know how to fit it and adjust it. It is really a trial and error process. There is NO fix all for tmj, there just isn't.
I really wish you the best on this endeavor of trying to start getting things under way. Please come and post so we can all keep up on what is going on and hopefully offer tips and advice and most important a lending ear.
Karen
thbrown421
12-22-2004, 01:09 AM
Hi, Karen:
Thanks for your kind response. I can see this is going to take a lot more research and thought before I decide on the next step!
I appreciate your offer to come and post here, and will do so.
Thanks again,
Tom
Thanks for your kind response. I can see this is going to take a lot more research and thought before I decide on the next step!
I appreciate your offer to come and post here, and will do so.
Thanks again,
Tom
westin4
12-22-2004, 01:27 AM
Glad to be of any help, Tom. I have suffered with this for 14 years. The last few being the worst of my life. I am just getting to the point of being really good again, and it has been a loooong battle. I have been to the dentist 48 times since March. He had me coming in twice a week most weeks to adjust and check my bite. He also started me on a pain management schedule. I am just tellin' ya so you know it can be a heck of an effort to get things under control. Now, I have a chronic case and have developed chronic pain/muscle spasms. I am sure you can get treated and avoid my situation.......I just want you to know I DO understand how hard this all is.
Glad to see you here. These boards are a WEALTH of info! I come here everyday and visit several of the topics.
Karen
Glad to see you here. These boards are a WEALTH of info! I come here everyday and visit several of the topics.
Karen
Michelle99
12-22-2004, 08:16 AM
I am a big fan of NTI for pain reduction, but I have to say I've never heard of it being used for the problems you describe. If it were absolutely risk free, I would say it's worth a try, but there is always the risk that your bite relationship will change. You have to decide if it's a risk you are willing to take.
You are right that a traditional mouth guard can allow you to clench more forcefully. It gives you more surface to chomp down on.
Good luck to you.
You are right that a traditional mouth guard can allow you to clench more forcefully. It gives you more surface to chomp down on.
Good luck to you.
westin4
12-22-2004, 10:08 AM
Michelle,
I didn't mean to imply that the NTI isn't helpful to anyone. Sorry, amd I am glad that you have had some relief from it.
I think where the NTI gets you into trouble is when your tmj is muscular in nature. I helped me for about 2 months, but in the long run it gave me years of problems.
Glad you have found some help.
Karen
I didn't mean to imply that the NTI isn't helpful to anyone. Sorry, amd I am glad that you have had some relief from it.
I think where the NTI gets you into trouble is when your tmj is muscular in nature. I helped me for about 2 months, but in the long run it gave me years of problems.
Glad you have found some help.
Karen
Michelle99
12-22-2004, 12:04 PM
Michelle,
I didn't mean to imply that the NTI isn't helpful to anyone. Sorry, amd I am glad that you have had some relief from it.
I think where the NTI gets you into trouble is when your tmj is muscular in nature. I helped me for about 2 months, but in the long run it gave me years of problems.
Glad you have found some help.
Karen
Hi Karen,
I'm sorry you had so much trouble with NTI, because it really is intended for use with people whose TMJ is muscular in nature. Sometimes as the muscles change, adjustments have to be made. Unfortunately, it sounds like too many dentists aren't communicating this to their patients. I wish it were different, because in the right hands, it can help a lot of people.
Happy Holidays!
I didn't mean to imply that the NTI isn't helpful to anyone. Sorry, amd I am glad that you have had some relief from it.
I think where the NTI gets you into trouble is when your tmj is muscular in nature. I helped me for about 2 months, but in the long run it gave me years of problems.
Glad you have found some help.
Karen
Hi Karen,
I'm sorry you had so much trouble with NTI, because it really is intended for use with people whose TMJ is muscular in nature. Sometimes as the muscles change, adjustments have to be made. Unfortunately, it sounds like too many dentists aren't communicating this to their patients. I wish it were different, because in the right hands, it can help a lot of people.
Happy Holidays!
westin4
12-22-2004, 01:38 PM
Yeah, my dentist knew about adjusting in and all, and he had me come in monthly, the problem was after a year or so in it, by back bite became open. Like I said, you just don't know what will work for which patient. Sometimes the full, acrylic splint wreck havoc for some people and sometimes they are a godsend.
My main problem was NOT clenching and grinding and really, that is what the NTI was designed for. I liked how it was impossible to clench in the NTI, but in the long run the soft, full splint did the best for me.
I hope we can all find an answer.
I think alot of problems arise too when a dentist is "set" on a treatment for a patient just because it worked for the last patient. But, they should persue another avenue of splint therapy if one particular one doesn't help.
Also, I have a whole different level of tmj than most and am having to start in pain management, so some of us suffer in a different way and it is hard to "know" what individually we are suffering with.
Merry Christmas!
Karen
My main problem was NOT clenching and grinding and really, that is what the NTI was designed for. I liked how it was impossible to clench in the NTI, but in the long run the soft, full splint did the best for me.
I hope we can all find an answer.
I think alot of problems arise too when a dentist is "set" on a treatment for a patient just because it worked for the last patient. But, they should persue another avenue of splint therapy if one particular one doesn't help.
Also, I have a whole different level of tmj than most and am having to start in pain management, so some of us suffer in a different way and it is hard to "know" what individually we are suffering with.
Merry Christmas!
Karen
Michelle99
12-22-2004, 03:13 PM
I think the best treatment is the one that works. I'm glad you found something that helped you. It's good to have a board like this where people can share both the good and the bad. I first heard about NTI on a newsgroup where the people had only good things to say about NTI. It gave me an unbalanced view, so I was very discouraged when I didn't quickly respond as positively as I had hoped.
I post here so if people using it are feeling as discouraged as I was, they can see that there is still a chance. I know I sound like I'm pushing NTI sometimes, and I don't mean to do that.
Merry Christmas!
I post here so if people using it are feeling as discouraged as I was, they can see that there is still a chance. I know I sound like I'm pushing NTI sometimes, and I don't mean to do that.
Merry Christmas!
Mr. Cumberpatch
12-22-2004, 04:47 PM
Michelle99,
I agree with you about comming across too pushy about the NTI. I myself am in your shoes and ultimately hope to prove myself correct rather than others, but back to the original post how do you know you have myoclonus tinntius for sure?
TMJ can cause tinnitus and I believe it comes from the tensor palatini muscle which does in fact attach itself at one end to the malleus in the ear. If the palatini muscle is not healthy then logically it could affect hearing. The muscles of mastication do affect this muscle.
To NTI or not? Angel47630 raises some good points but if it was me I'd give it a go before I tried other splints. Which is what I'm doing.
Mr. Cumberpatch
I agree with you about comming across too pushy about the NTI. I myself am in your shoes and ultimately hope to prove myself correct rather than others, but back to the original post how do you know you have myoclonus tinntius for sure?
TMJ can cause tinnitus and I believe it comes from the tensor palatini muscle which does in fact attach itself at one end to the malleus in the ear. If the palatini muscle is not healthy then logically it could affect hearing. The muscles of mastication do affect this muscle.
To NTI or not? Angel47630 raises some good points but if it was me I'd give it a go before I tried other splints. Which is what I'm doing.
Mr. Cumberpatch
Mr. Cumberpatch
12-22-2004, 04:48 PM
Michelle99,
I agree with you about comming across too pushy about the NTI. I myself am in your shoes and ultimately hope to prove myself correct rather than others, but back to the original post how do you know you have myoclonus tinntius for sure?
TMJ can cause tinnitus and I believe it comes from the tensor palatini muscle which does in fact attach itself at one end to the malleus in the ear. If the palatini muscle is not healthy then logically it could affect hearing. The muscles of mastication do affect this muscle.
To NTI or not? Angel47630 raises some good points but if it was me I'd give it a go before I tried other splints. Which is what I'm doing.
Angel, you say it caused you an open back bite? how so?
Mr. Cumberpatch
I agree with you about comming across too pushy about the NTI. I myself am in your shoes and ultimately hope to prove myself correct rather than others, but back to the original post how do you know you have myoclonus tinntius for sure?
TMJ can cause tinnitus and I believe it comes from the tensor palatini muscle which does in fact attach itself at one end to the malleus in the ear. If the palatini muscle is not healthy then logically it could affect hearing. The muscles of mastication do affect this muscle.
To NTI or not? Angel47630 raises some good points but if it was me I'd give it a go before I tried other splints. Which is what I'm doing.
Angel, you say it caused you an open back bite? how so?
Mr. Cumberpatch
westin4
12-22-2004, 06:22 PM
Hey, I am glad that something has worked for you guys. Like I said, it HAS to be case by case. I would never push ANY splint because I have tried 8 of them! :)
I am not "bashing" the NTI either. It was the first one I ever had. For me, it wasn't the answer. And believe me, when I first wore it, I touted it to all the world. It just opened up my bite in the back and it has taken me 7 splints later to get the "new" tmj fixed. It is really hard to explain it all writing. :) Just keep in mind this.........if you try one, and it doesn't work out, know there are SO many other designs to consider. That is the way I look at it. The tough thing is too............there is not one cause of tmj or one fix. There is also not one level of tmj. Some of us are under pain management so of course we have a whole differnt aspect of the condition and a whole host of problems that go with it.
I just wish that all dentists were skilled and would get there hiney's in gear and treat us all kind.
May we all be pain free for the holidays.
I like hearing all aspects and all experiences. Thanks goodness we can come and share.
Karen
I am not "bashing" the NTI either. It was the first one I ever had. For me, it wasn't the answer. And believe me, when I first wore it, I touted it to all the world. It just opened up my bite in the back and it has taken me 7 splints later to get the "new" tmj fixed. It is really hard to explain it all writing. :) Just keep in mind this.........if you try one, and it doesn't work out, know there are SO many other designs to consider. That is the way I look at it. The tough thing is too............there is not one cause of tmj or one fix. There is also not one level of tmj. Some of us are under pain management so of course we have a whole differnt aspect of the condition and a whole host of problems that go with it.
I just wish that all dentists were skilled and would get there hiney's in gear and treat us all kind.
May we all be pain free for the holidays.
I like hearing all aspects and all experiences. Thanks goodness we can come and share.
Karen