6 weeks back, I have done a libid profile test. I was not complaining of any health issues, just as I thought it is a good idea to know as high cholesterol is running in the family.
The results were shocking
Total Cholesterol was 306
LDL 260
HDL 27
Triglyceride 98

I am 172 Cm tall and use to weight 81.5 Kg (179 lb) 37 year old male

Doctor told me that life style change is a must but defiantly can not bring my numbers down alone as current numbers are very high and my risk is very high
He put me on lipitor 20mg and requested another test in 4 weeks time

I started the lipitor , but at the same time I also started major life style.

During the 4 weeks period, I manage to drop my weight to 76.5 KG (168 lb). That is 11 Lbs drop.
I changed my diet to exclude fat and red meet. Sitched to skimmed milk
I eat fish 5 times a week
Lots of salads , and boiled vegetables
Lots of fruits
Less carbs
Multi vitamins with 100mg Vitamin C
Fresh garlic daily
Morning breakfast with oats and fresh squeezed Orange juice
Exercise daily by fast walk 1 mile and running 1.5 mile daily
Cold Turkey quit smoking - Use to smoke 20 cigs a day

After 4 weeks I done another set of tests and results came today. My doctor was shocked with the results
TC 127
LDL 85
HDL 31
Triglyceride 56

Liver and kidney function are excellent

He told me to drop the dose of libitor to 10mg. And continue with what I am doing diet and exercise. He told me to run another set of tests in 3 months time to see if I cn drop the lipitor completely.

Did any one ever see immediate results like these in 4 weeks?

That's a remarkable drop Omani, I hope the 10 mg. gives you something comparable.
I got 100 points TC drop with Lipitor and thought THAT was great, yours gets the record!

Omani,

I think your lifestyle change was enough Why bother going on any meds at this point? Try everything before you take any meds. You are lucky I have been excercising and eating this way for years and still have high cholesterol. For me it is hereditary all the way..Lisa

That is a brilliant effort - you should be so proud of yourself. Apart from the benefits for your heart, the better lifestyle will really make you feel good and healthy in the long term. You are so very wise to tackle this early and keep any potential problems away.

My total came down from 525 to 273 after a month on 40mg lipitor in late summer. If I hadn't already had a healthy lifestyle God knows what level it would have got up to. (Genetic!) Now I've been on the rather large dose of 80mg for a month. Next cholesterol test in 2 days to see what that much lipitor has done to me - apart from turning my face purple....kidding! :eek:

I reckon your doctor will soon enough get you onto the lowest dose of statin, or even off it altogether if possible, as long as you keep up the good work. I hope you enjoy the new diet, one can still have wonderful meals without the heavy stodge. And as long as red wine is recommended ......who cares?

That's great. Your doctor is looking out for you by getting you on the lowest dose necessary. Too many doctors seem to be prescribing doses that are much higher than needed.

Well, The doctor told me he is not interested in too low cholesterol. He prefers it somewhere between 170 and 200. So he told me to reduce the dose and see the effect of the 10mg and preferably take me out of lipitor if I can maintain an acceptable numbers, even 220 is OK with no meds he said. Especially if I can maintain LDL below 130 and keep the physical exercise.

I bet your LDL will still be under 100 with 10mg Lipitor. I went from 40mg Zocor to 20mg and saw hardly any change.

I stopped the lipitor completely , but my results were not so good.

Originaly (3 months back ) my numbers were :

Total Cholesterol was 306
LDL 260
HDL 27
Triglyceride 98

Doctor put me on lipitor and after 4 weeks on 20mg lipitor the results were:
TC 127
LDL 85
HDL 31
Triglyceride 56

When I saw these results and doctor recommended that I lower the lipitor to 10mg, I decided to not to take any lipitor at all, 5 weeks later those are my numbers again:

TC 226
HDL : 31
LDL 174
Triglyceride 103

During this period, I eliminated all saturated fats and red meat from my diet, no eggs as well. Included extra virgin olive oil, garlic, vitamin C , and lots of veggies and fruits. I also run 3 miles 4-5 times a week , it takers me between 30-35 minutes to complete the 3 miles.
Prior to initial checkup, my diet includes lots of meat and eggs, and basically no exercise at all.

Should I give this change a chance a little longer to see if the number will improve, especialy my HDL numbers, or the statin is the only way out?

I appreciate your inputs.

Omani,

I think you've demonstrated just how much you need the Lipitor.
Your TC/HDL has deteriorated from an excellent 1.5 on Lipitor to a miserable 7.3 without, all in the space of 5 weeks.

It sounds like there's nothing else you can add to your extremely heart healthy regimen, except the drug.

I think the lifestyle changes you made is what really made the difference. Your doctor may have told you that you couldn't get them down without cholesterol meds because most people would not have been able to make those huge changes that you made. Losing 11 pounds and quitting smoking and a complete diet change and adding exercise all in one 4 week period is probably rarely heard of in the medical field! I think is need for Lipitor in some cases but in yours I think you can probably do it without the meds. Just my humble opinion!

Omani,

The decision on whether or not to continue taking Lipitor is a personal one which only you can make. But since you've been off it for a relatively short period of time, you can continue to implement changes which may improve your numbers. Of course, the main concern is your low HDL, coupled with an elevated LDL. The trouble with eliminating all saturated fats and eggs from your diet is that these same foods also tend to improve HDL levels. Nevertheless, I have a few suggestions which you may want to try. Eat more fatty fish, such as salmon and sardines, and even take additional fish oil supplements. Get a hold of some granular lecithin, and take about two tablespoons each day. Try supplementing with niacin. Start with a low dose, say 250mg, and gradually work your way up to 1000mg/day, taken in four divided doses of 250mg each. Continue with your other supplements as well. By the way, how much vitamin C are you taking? It's important to take vitamin C in divided doses over the course of the day, since your body uses it quickly and blood levels of vitamin C will only remain elevated for between 4-6 hours. I think four divided doses of 500mg each should be fine, as that will provide you with 2000mg per day.

Well sorry if id did not mention it before, but I do take 2 doses of vitamin C of 1000 mg each, also I do eat fish at least 3 times a week. I also take seven seas cod liver oil. and garlic oil extract plus the fresh garlic.
My office is located 5th floor, and since diagnosed, i usually take the stairs at least twice a day on top of my 3 miles running 4-5 times a week.
I added olive oil to replace butter and other oil in my diet, making sure that no food is fried or contains cooked oil. All my food is either boiled, backed, or grilled with no oil what so ever.

Also my mother, sister , and brother all diagnosed with elevated cholesterol level. The problem is with the low HDL, now that i been exercising for the past 3 months and all these changes in life stile, how soon can i see a difference on HDL numbers?

Lenin
My numbers on lipitor were :
TC 127
LDL 85
HDL 31
Triglyceride 56
so TC/HDL =4 and not 1.5 , with out the lipitor is back up to 7.3

I am thinking to go back to lipitor with a very low dose, 5mg - What do you think? i will give it a try for 4 weeks and do another blood test then to C if it is effective.

Omani,

In my opinion, what's most worrisome in your particular case is your stubbornly low HDL, which thus far has been resistant to the changes you have made in your diet. Yes, the Lipitor dropped your cholesterol like a rock, perhaps even too much (127!), but it did nothing for your HDL. With that in mind, I believe that niacin would be far more appropriate for you, since nothing does as good a job at raising HDL than niacin. It seems to me that you are a perfect candidate for it, to be sure! Have you discussed this option with your doctor? Most likely he would prescribe Niaspan, the prescription form of niacin. I can't imagine why he would not agree to let you try it. It makes perfect sense to me.

Omani,

God knows were I got that 1.5 from (I must have divided your TC by your LDL...my bad.
If I were you I'd do the trial the doctor that the doctor recommended with the 10 mg. Lipitor but 5 mg. is a tolerable option.
Recapping, your numbers are deadly dangerous with no statin and poor lifestyle; they recovered to EXCELLENT with massive diet and exercise changes + 20 mg. Lipitor. The you dropped the statin and kept the lifestyle changes and your numbers went bad again. I think your decision is already made FOR you; there's only one way to read that data!


You and I share the low HDL problem and I found that ALCOHOL is the best (and WORST:() way to keep it up.

As an afterthought,
please keep a vigilant eye on your heart because that 11.3 ratio that you started with is perphaps the WORST that I have ever seen. Maybe a stress test with nuclear scan is a good idea for you even though you are only 37...IF your insurance company will pick up the bill.

Omani,

As I said earlier, niacin may indeed be well worth a try in your case. By bumping up that HDL, you would be improving your ratios all around. Niacin alone may be sufficient. However, should additional measures be warranted in order to arrive at the desired ratios, perhaps a drug called Advicor would prove the most effective. Unlike Lipitor, a statin which had no impact on your HDL, Advicor is a combination drug. It contains both a statin and niacin, all in one pill. The statin will promote a greater lowering of LDL, while the niacin will promote higher HDL, which is exactly what you need. On top of that, the niacin will promote a more favorable shift towards increased LDL particle size, rendering it more benign, or less dangerous. Anyway, this is something else you may want to inquire about. And if you experience a marked improvement in your HDL, you will not have to lower your total cholesterol too much. A total cholesterol level of 127 is very low, and there are dangers associated with very low levels as well.

ARIZONA,

Permit a nitpick.
Unlike Lipitor, a statin which had no impact on your HDL
That's not quite true. Though the increase is not astronomical, all the statins show an increase in HDL in experimental studies; I personally got +25%, though most studies show +5 to +10%.

Omani,
Perhaps my technique (work in process ;) ) of Lipitor PLUS a small amount of niacin (I'm doing 250 mg. in divided doses) will help you. I really doubt that niacin alone is your answer, but we are all genetically different; except those with identical twins, anyway :jester: !

Lenin,

Yes, I know. But in Omani's case, his HDL hardly changed at all, even with all the exercising, and eating fish 5 times a week. Niacin appears to be his best bet right now. Maybe some lecithin may help as well. If that doesn't result in much of an improvement, then I don't know what else to do. It's strange how some people can easily raise their HDL, while others run into one brick wall after another, no matter how much they try.

ARIZONA,

Remember that Omani dropped his LDL of 260 to an almost INCONCEIVABLE 85. Throwing that away is nothing short of foolish!

Lenin,

I'm not saying that Omani should completely rule out the use of a statin. But niacin has not yet been tried. It may work well for him. But if that alone is insufficient, that's why I thought of Advicor, which is a combination pill containing both a statin and Niaspan. I would THINK that Advicor may demonstrate better all around improvement, particularly in regard to his HDL, which can potentially result in much improved ratios.

All,

I think there's too much influence from the drug-company marketing departments that the lower your cholesterol goes, the better. Five years ago they were saying get below 180, now it's stay below 140. How long before they say to go even lower?

Unfortunately too many doctors blindly accept the information they get from Pfiser, Merck et al, and push statins on patients who may not even need them.

There are some studies showing that too low a cholesterol level is bad for the elderly and is associated with a decrease in lifespan. I suspect studies for other age groups would also show negative effects once cholesterol goes below a certain level - were the studies ever to be done. Congestive Heart Failure is rising dramatically in the US - some surmise that it's the CoQ10 depleting effects of statins that are partially to blame..

TC of 85 sounds dangerously low to me. I understand the drug companies saying this is OK - after all, they make greater profits the lower they can convince you to go.

Cholesterol is an integral part of the human body - it is essential to the cell membranes and the nervous system, and the brain is mostly cholesterol. Who knows what the long-term effects are of too-low a cholesterol level - the studies have not even been conducted to determine what that danger level is...

The reason you haven't seen any studies on the effects (good and bad) of extremely low cholesterol levels are two-fold:

1) The drug companies have directly or indirectly funded most of the statin studies to date.

2) Even those conducted by so-called impartial entities like the NIH have later been found to have extreme financial conflicts of interest that make the results at least partially suspect. Doctors and professionals involved in the studies have later been found to have glaring financial conflicts-of-interest connections to the drug companies - like doing consulting work for them.

Statins are beneficial, but don't buy-in to the drug company hype that would have you spend more on higher doses to get your cholesterol level ever lower. They will make higher profits, but you could end up doing irreparable damage to your body.

I personally think Lipitor levels above 40mg (or equivalent levels for the other statins) are potentially very dangerous - unless an individual has some heavy-duty CHD risk factors.

Do some research - browse the web about the risks associated with statins... Even if you've been on the drug for years with no symptomatic problems to date, it doesn't mean the drugs are risk free.

Just my 2 cents... in the end, we all make and live by our own health decisions...

HubbleRules

Hubble,


I believe Lenin was referring to an LDL of 85, not TC.

However, I tend to generally agree with what you are saying. Drug companies are very manipulative, and they have the money and clout to twist quite a few arms. I believe their influence is rooted in the FDA as well as the NIH. The NIH receives government funding (meaning our money). The drug companies don't need NIH funding to conduct studies. They are perfectly capable of funding it themselves. However, when the NIH was approached and asked to provide funding to evaluate the effectiveness of the Pauling Therapy in the treatment of heart disease, it was flatly rejected. Why? The theory sounds plausible, and from what I have heard, there have been people who tried it and have benefited from it. But how many people have even heard about it? Probably not very many. And all it involves is the use of a few safe, relatively inexpensive supplements. And yet the NIH refuses to even study it, even though it may potentially result in a successful outcome which can improve the lives of many people. Yeah, I think there's bias within the NIH too.

Thanks for the input,
My doctor is very understanding and he did mention that he is not interested in very low TC levels at all, he said he is happy of a level between 170 and 200, that is why he recommended to lower the lipitor dose to 10 mg from 20 mg. when he realized that my TC dropped to 127 in just 4 weeks on lipitor.
It was my decision to completely stop lipitor to check if just the diet and life style will help maintaining reasonable numbers.

Now and after the numbers are high again, i decided to go back to lipitor with a smaller dose, 5mg only and check the effect in 4 weeks time.
If I manage to maintain a number between 170 and 200 then that is my goal. My doctor explained that it can take more than 6 month of diet and exercise before I see a shift in HDL level, he told me not to expect a good number soon. So he is interested in keeping my LDL level below 130 for the time been and give HDL more time to respond before he consider other options.

Did any one get any effect on 5mg lipitor by the way? or should i follow the doctor order of 10mg.

By the way I do feel very healthy and i do manage to run 3 miles with out any pains in average of 32 minutes. Doctor told me no need for stress test if I manage to run that much. I do it at least 4 times a week.

Arizona/Lenin,

My mistake - I didn't read Lenin's post carefully, and I thought he was referring to a Totol Cholesterol of 85 being desireable - I apologize - I'll read more carefully next time...

Coincidentally, the Chicago Tribune came out with an article yesterday on The FDA and Drug Safety that demonstrates how dependent the FDA is upon the drug companies for funding the new drug approval process, and how this has biased the agency strongly in favor of approving drugs quickly rather than making sure the drugs are safe. Congress is about to pass legislation to control this flagrant conflict of interest, and to provide more funding for drug safety testing. Before reading this article I didn't realize the the FDA cannot even madate that the drug companies conduct clinical trials on a drug after it is has been approved - even if there are suspicions the drug is not safe!!!

Omani,

Keep up the great results - I think your behavior and diet modifications are EXCELLENT. Definitely keep up the running. And yes, I would stay on the 5mg Lipitor to see how it does - I reduced my cholesterol from about 230 to about 190 when I was taking my 10mg Lipitor pill, breaking it in half, and taking one half per day... I think the lowest dose that gives you good results is what you should go with.

By the way, HDL is difficult to adjust upwards. Mine started at 35, and even after 1 year of regular exercise and diet control, I only got it up to about 45. Exercise is a good way to boost HDL, but it takes time and the increase is not **********r. Here are some other things you can do to increase your HDL:

a) increase your Omega-3 fatty acid intake (from fish, cold-pressed flaxseed oil, canola oli, Omega-3 supplements)
b) eat more soluble fiber (oats, whole grains, brown rice, fruits...)
c) use more monosaturated oils (olive oil, canola oil)
d) avoid trans-fatty acids (foods with the word 'hydrogenated' in the ingredients list)
e) avoid high-fat dairy products
f) have a glass of red wine each day
g) ask your doctor about time-released Niacin

Post your numbers after a few months on 5mg.

Best of luck,

HubbleRules

Wow, I just got my new results with 5MG Lipitor only
New results are :
Total Cholesterol 172
HDL 31
LDL 122
Triglyceride 109

So who said we do have to tkae those big doses of statins. I managed to get good results that my doctor and I are happy about with just 5Mg of lipitor.

So just to summarize:
Initial diagnoses and before treatment numbers were:
Total Cholesterol was 306
LDL 260
HDL 27
Triglyceride 98

Doctor put me on lipitor and after 4 weeks on 20mg lipitor the results were:
TC 127
LDL 85
HDL 31
Triglyceride 56

When I saw these results and doctor recommended that I lower the lipitor to 10mg, I decided to not to take any lipitor at all, 5 weeks later those are my numbers again:

TC 226
HDL : 31
LDL 174
Triglyceride 103

Then went back to Lipitor but with very small dose as I was not happy with the results and 6 weeks after being on 5MG of Lipitor numbers are :
Total Cholesterol 172
HDL 31
LDL 122
Triglyceride 109

Doctor said that he is happy as there are not much options to raise the HDL , other numbers are all fine. Also he said that a lower TC than 170 is not favored by him. Advised me to stick with the 5MG lipitor as well as the rest of life style change that I have adopted.

Omani - Congratulations on your splendid success! I don't think I've ever seen anyone make such terrific changes so fast. Making all those lifestyle changes in such a short period must have been difficult. It takes a great deal of strength, but I'm sure your health will be better for it in the long run.

There are some options to raising the HDL if you choose to do so. This option has already been mentioned, that of taking low-dose niacin. I chose to lower my cholesterol with niacin only, and was able to get my numbers down to nearly ideal with 750 mg. niacin daily. But since you are already on Lipitor, that much would probably not be needed. I think Lenin is trying 250 mg. a day, and that amount could well bring your HDL up sufficiently.

Another option is adding a little alcohol, like a glass of wine with dinner, if you are totally abstaining now. I haven't seen any specific figures on this, but know that it does tend to raise HDL.

One option that hasn't been mentioned is adding a few eggs back into your diet. Yes, eggs! I came across two research studies which showed that eggs did not present the danger in the diet which was formerly believed. They may raise total cholesterol, but part of that is HDL. Since I am an egg lover from way back, I decided to do an experiment on myself by eating two eggs a day for two to three months. As you can see from the figures below, this increased my HDL appreciably and my TC/HDL ratio hardly changed. I'm not suggesting that you eat two eggs a day, but a couple of eggs a week probably wouldn't hurt. I'd be inclined to think that because the difference between your LDL and HDL was so much greater than mine, it is possible that the effect of just a few points higher HDL might actually give you a better ratio than you had previously. It isn't going to be a magic cure, but if you've been missing your eggs like I did, at least you'll know you can have a bit more leeway in your diet here than you may have previously thought.

Naturally, your results would be different, but here were my results, first the original, then after adding 750 mg. niacin daily, and last after taking the 750 mg niacin plus eating 14 eggs a week. (My doctor believes that the ratio is far more important than the total cholesterol, so was not concerned about the increases in TC and LDL under the circumstances.)

247 - 190 - 241 Total cholesterol
158 - 101 - 137 LDL
62 ----72 ---91 HDL
4.0 -- 2.6 - 2.7 TC/HDL ratio
133 -- 87 -- 68 Triglycerides