THEM
01-10-2005, 04:21 PM
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I need to ask my doctor for a new drug to take.
I need to ask my doctor for a new drug to take.
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ARIZONA73
01-10-2005, 08:00 PM
I don't think this is the first fatality from Crestor. Sometime last year I remember reading where a 38 year old woman also died from Crestor. Maybe we ought to start passing the stuff out to all the prisoners at Quantanimo Bay.
jtu91952
01-10-2005, 09:39 PM
Last week my cardio tried to force me to take crestor. I told her about all the news reports and she said but "you need to lower your cholesterol". Too bad, what difference does it make if i die from cholesterol (slowly) or crestor(quickly).
She said ppl should not listen to the news bcuz only a few ppl have trouble with statins. Well, it would be my luck im one of those ppl.
She gave me a script for niaspan(sp?) and pravigard(pravachol & asprin). I won't take neither.
She said ppl should not listen to the news bcuz only a few ppl have trouble with statins. Well, it would be my luck im one of those ppl.
She gave me a script for niaspan(sp?) and pravigard(pravachol & asprin). I won't take neither.
ARIZONA73
01-10-2005, 11:19 PM
jtu91952,
Well, actually niacin is probably the best, and it is available over the counter. It's not expensive, and it is a great cardiovascular supplement. I personally think that it is far superior to any statin out there, and much safer. I've been taking it myself for nearly 20 years. I think that the benefits of simple, ordinary niacin far exceed any of the minimal benefits which may be derived from costly, and potentially dangerous statins.
Well, actually niacin is probably the best, and it is available over the counter. It's not expensive, and it is a great cardiovascular supplement. I personally think that it is far superior to any statin out there, and much safer. I've been taking it myself for nearly 20 years. I think that the benefits of simple, ordinary niacin far exceed any of the minimal benefits which may be derived from costly, and potentially dangerous statins.
Uff-Da!
01-10-2005, 11:22 PM
jtu, why won't you take the Niaspan? I know that niacin taken by a diabetic has to be very carefully monitored because it CAN cause problems with glucose levels, but don't you take your blood sugar readings every day anyway? I would think you would be able to tell if the niacin was causing a problem long before anything serious happened. I'm taking just 750 mg. of an OTC niacin daily, and it has dropped my total cholesterol about 57 points and improved the other figures, too. I'm not diabetic, but that kind of drop can make a definite difference in risk of CVD.
And as to it's potential for liver damage, if your doctor ordered liver enzyme tests before you started, he knows you don't have a problem there or he wouldn't have prescribed it. Usually the doctor requests another blood test within 6-8 weeks or so after starting on niacin to make sure that individual isn't having a problem with it. That would catch any liver problem it might cause (which doesn't happen often even with the OTCs) long before it was serious. If the doctor failed to request a follow-up liver enzyme test, you should ask for one.
And as to it's potential for liver damage, if your doctor ordered liver enzyme tests before you started, he knows you don't have a problem there or he wouldn't have prescribed it. Usually the doctor requests another blood test within 6-8 weeks or so after starting on niacin to make sure that individual isn't having a problem with it. That would catch any liver problem it might cause (which doesn't happen often even with the OTCs) long before it was serious. If the doctor failed to request a follow-up liver enzyme test, you should ask for one.
Lenin
01-11-2005, 12:02 PM
I am reasonably convinced that more deaths have been caused by Niacin than by Crestor.
The fact that it's been known as a Vitamin over the decades should never obscure the fact that in mega-mega- dosages required for modest cholesterol control it is VERY MUCH a drug, and one that is not particularly innocuous.
It is extremely hard on the liver, causes rhabdomyolysis, and is not infrequently associated with angioedema, a known potential killer!
As an aside, though not inconsequential, it can provoke gout by retaining serum uric acid.
The fact that it's been known as a Vitamin over the decades should never obscure the fact that in mega-mega- dosages required for modest cholesterol control it is VERY MUCH a drug, and one that is not particularly innocuous.
It is extremely hard on the liver, causes rhabdomyolysis, and is not infrequently associated with angioedema, a known potential killer!
As an aside, though not inconsequential, it can provoke gout by retaining serum uric acid.
jtu91952
01-11-2005, 02:45 PM
Uffa-da & arizona, thanks for the info but im deathly afraid of meds at this point. I am pitiful when it comes to the medical field and their pills. Several yrs ago i was given 24 pills without regards to my diabetes. It took me many months and yrs to finally get off some of those pills with the help of my endo.
For example, i never had a cholesterol problem until some well meaning nurse practioner gave hctz. Every dr i've seen since kept prescribing it and my glucose levels jumped from 5.0 to 10.9. When i finally stopped the hctz, my glucose dropped 7.5 and cholesterol dropped 337 to 243. This caused me to have four or five eye surgeries. Not one of those drs (5 ttl) associated the bp meds with my high glucose or cholesterol readings. They just kept prescribing other meds to treat the new diseases. So you see, that's why i won't take niaspan.
Besides, according to another thread on this board, zippydawg, was gracious enough to give me the side effects and the skinny on niaspan. I can't take the chance again that i will be ill from a drug.
For example, i never had a cholesterol problem until some well meaning nurse practioner gave hctz. Every dr i've seen since kept prescribing it and my glucose levels jumped from 5.0 to 10.9. When i finally stopped the hctz, my glucose dropped 7.5 and cholesterol dropped 337 to 243. This caused me to have four or five eye surgeries. Not one of those drs (5 ttl) associated the bp meds with my high glucose or cholesterol readings. They just kept prescribing other meds to treat the new diseases. So you see, that's why i won't take niaspan.
Besides, according to another thread on this board, zippydawg, was gracious enough to give me the side effects and the skinny on niaspan. I can't take the chance again that i will be ill from a drug.
ARIZONA73
01-11-2005, 08:49 PM
Lenin,
While therapeutic doses of niacin do carry some risk, I believe that most of the problems which have occurred were the result of the excessively high doses that were once prescribed. I remember it wasn't so long ago when people were actually prescribed 9 grams per day! That is quite excessive, and it predisposed patiients to a considerable amount of risk. But we now know that such high doses aren't really necessary. With the lower doses that are commonly prescribed today, there can't possibly be nearly as many problems as there once were. Of course, there are individuals such as yourself who simply cannot tolerate it, even at the lower doses. But you are right in that there is an element of risk with just about anything. We can even kill ourselves by drinking too much water. :wave:
While therapeutic doses of niacin do carry some risk, I believe that most of the problems which have occurred were the result of the excessively high doses that were once prescribed. I remember it wasn't so long ago when people were actually prescribed 9 grams per day! That is quite excessive, and it predisposed patiients to a considerable amount of risk. But we now know that such high doses aren't really necessary. With the lower doses that are commonly prescribed today, there can't possibly be nearly as many problems as there once were. Of course, there are individuals such as yourself who simply cannot tolerate it, even at the lower doses. But you are right in that there is an element of risk with just about anything. We can even kill ourselves by drinking too much water. :wave:
Lenin
01-12-2005, 09:37 AM
I STILL would bet the next paycheck that niacin has killed far more people than Crestor, or even than Crestor+Lipitor+Pravachol+Zocor combined. (Damn, did they HAVE to make Zocor and Cozaar sound so much alike!:D)
Of course, the numbers would be desperately hard to come by in both cases.
Of course, the numbers would be desperately hard to come by in both cases.
ARIZONA73
01-12-2005, 08:56 PM
And I'd be willing to bet my last paycheck that niacin will still be around long after Crestor is finally taken off the market. :D :D
Lenin
01-13-2005, 09:25 AM
Well, Not QUITE a fair comparison since technically niacin is sold as a "food supplement" (even in doses of 1000 times the RDA or a million times for that matter :D) and thus needs not prove safety and efficacy or even CLAIM efficacy so it can be unsafe and useless and still be sold til the end of time.
Vitamin Conglomerate of the Universe can even sell empty capsules or capsules with double the stated dosage and not run afoul the FDA drug regulations.
All jesting aside though, I think that niacin is a good drug for those who can take it and show good enough benefit. From my sample of one, I developed angioedema with the flush that caused my lips and tongue to swell. The next step in that process is throat closure which can readily kill. My sample was small (just ME) and the condition isn't anomalous with niacin megadosing, so I'm fairly certain that the statistical occurrence of angioedema is high.
(But then nobody reports or tabulates this because niacin is a "food";)..."hey, honey, let's go out for a steak and some niacin...yummm.")
Let me change your last bet slightly; I'll bet the statin drugs are legal long after niacin is banned in higher dosages (like potassium and folate.)
We'll hand the money to Nine Lives to hold until the bet is resolved:D:D:D:D:D. [We may have to wait awhile because I doubt the current FDA would ban megadoses of cyanide capsules if the company selling it was large enough and the price high enough.]
Vitamin Conglomerate of the Universe can even sell empty capsules or capsules with double the stated dosage and not run afoul the FDA drug regulations.
All jesting aside though, I think that niacin is a good drug for those who can take it and show good enough benefit. From my sample of one, I developed angioedema with the flush that caused my lips and tongue to swell. The next step in that process is throat closure which can readily kill. My sample was small (just ME) and the condition isn't anomalous with niacin megadosing, so I'm fairly certain that the statistical occurrence of angioedema is high.
(But then nobody reports or tabulates this because niacin is a "food";)..."hey, honey, let's go out for a steak and some niacin...yummm.")
Let me change your last bet slightly; I'll bet the statin drugs are legal long after niacin is banned in higher dosages (like potassium and folate.)
We'll hand the money to Nine Lives to hold until the bet is resolved:D:D:D:D:D. [We may have to wait awhile because I doubt the current FDA would ban megadoses of cyanide capsules if the company selling it was large enough and the price high enough.]
Uff-Da!
01-13-2005, 01:07 PM
And when the higher doses of niacin are banned as OTC products, I will have to pay more than ten times as much to get the same result from a prescription niacin. For what?
ARIZONA73
01-13-2005, 02:01 PM
Yeah, and at the same time approval will be granted for the over the counter sale of statins. :eek: What a crazy country we live in.
Lenin
01-14-2005, 08:51 AM
Mevachor is before the FDA seeking approval right now looking for OTC permission. I welcome the change but I can't help ROARING with laughter at the doctors who are now complaining: "These drugs damage the LIVER; these drugs cause Rhabdomyolysis."
They bellow only at the thought their million dollar prescrition pads might not be needed anymore.
When they were PRESCRIBING the drugs it was all a bed of roses ("One in a million chance."....and "Perfectly safe!" :jester: )
This is cosmically funny stuff:D:D:D.
I think the doctors will win this and the FDA will disallow the OTC status for statins. (In the UK it's a "behind the counter drug"...you have to ask the pharmacist and he talks to you a minute like for codeine and even CONDOMS in the U.S. a long time ago. (Some states STILL allow the codeine to be sold that way.)
Well, even if OTC isn't approved, at least the expected generic pricing of at least 3 of the statins by next year will be welcome to those of us who smart from the current high monopolistic prices.
They bellow only at the thought their million dollar prescrition pads might not be needed anymore.
When they were PRESCRIBING the drugs it was all a bed of roses ("One in a million chance."....and "Perfectly safe!" :jester: )
This is cosmically funny stuff:D:D:D.
I think the doctors will win this and the FDA will disallow the OTC status for statins. (In the UK it's a "behind the counter drug"...you have to ask the pharmacist and he talks to you a minute like for codeine and even CONDOMS in the U.S. a long time ago. (Some states STILL allow the codeine to be sold that way.)
Well, even if OTC isn't approved, at least the expected generic pricing of at least 3 of the statins by next year will be welcome to those of us who smart from the current high monopolistic prices.