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inpaininnv
01-20-2005, 04:36 PM
I was just wondering if this is common or just me? Can oxy actually keep you awake? When I was on Methadone I was so tired in the mornings I would go back to sleep only after bieng up for like an hour. I have been getting up between 3-4 am since I started the oxy about 3 weeks ago. The wierd thing is is that I should be like dog tired because I usually sleep more than that. I am not even tired. If it weren't for my muscle relaxer I take at night I think I would probably have trouble falling asleep in the first place. Is this a side effect that will go away? Thanks

Carla

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mommy2scl
01-20-2005, 05:22 PM
I started OxyC about 3 weeks ago and have found the same thing. But I have trouble falling asleep. I normally get tired around 10pm, now I am up at least until 11:30 and even then I lay in bed a good hour or more waiting to fall asleep. SOmetimes I will still be awake at 2am. Even when I do sleep, it is not a good deep sleep. But the funny thing is, I don't feel particularly tired the next day either, but I look tired. I think some of the problem is my dosing schedule. I take it 3 times daily, 7 am, 3pm and 11p. I don't know how to change it so I am not up in the middle of the night taking it though. I need to take it every 8 hours. Maybe it would be worth setting the alarm clock and getting up in the middle of the night and taking it.

Mommy

aestrella411
01-20-2005, 05:24 PM
I think different people react differently with each medication. Maybe in your situation, you have a tolerance built up for that type of medicine and therefore don't get all of the side effects. I wasn't tired at all when I was on oxycontin but when I was on methadone that would knock me out. The only side effect I had with the oxy was that it made me very nautious but did get rid of the pain. Now I'm just on vicodin because my stomach can handle that and I don't get nautious. But my question to you is does oxycontin help with your pain? If it does, I wouldn't be worried about if it makes me sick or tired, I'd just be concerned if it works. Oh, the other thing, is that maybe the dosage is too low in that it's not affecting you at all. But again, I don't know what kind of pain you have and if it's going away with the oxy...-Anita

inpaininnv
01-20-2005, 05:53 PM
Well thats just it...I just started 3 weeks ago and have gone from 10 mgs 2 times a day to 20 mgs every 8 hours. I am seeing the dr tommoro to adjust the dose. I had increased pain the first week due to withdrawls but now I can feel a little difference but not as much relief as I felt from the Methadone. It was the drs decision to switch meds. I was happy with the methadone but the dr thought I should have a steadier serum level. I take my meds at 12 noon and at 8pm and at 4 am. I have ddd at 3 levels, 2 torn/bulging discs and lumbar discogenic syndrome.

I too maybe thought the dose was maybe not enough to affect me and thats why I really have no side effects. ie. constipation, drowsiness, dry mouth, nasea.

I am not really sure what will happen tommoro with the dr. I am hopeing to adjust the dose. I do not want to switch again

Carla

Streetcar
01-20-2005, 08:23 PM
Hey Carla,

I haven't been around much lately, way to busy. That is one of the most common side effects to oxycontin and the main reason druggies like to abuse oxycontin. I can only use oxycodone for a BT med because the LA med drove me nuts with anxiety.

Good luck!

BrittleBones
01-21-2005, 04:33 PM
Hi Carla! I thought I was the only strange one who found that Oxycontin and even Oxycodone kept me awake. I don't think that I slept more than an hour at a time before waking up and sitting up and watching a bit of t.v. I'd fall back to sleep, but wake up at least 3 or 4 times before the morning. I don't know how I functioned like that. I'm doing much better on Methadone. I take 10 mg. in the a.m., 10 mg. at 2:00 p.m., and 20 mg. before bed. I have no idea if that is a low dose or a high dose. Maybe you can tell me or Shorline can give me some info on what an "average" dose of Methadone is for pain control. Anyway, it helps the pain far better than the other narcotics that I've been on and let's me get a pretty good nights' sleep. I'm curious to see what your doc said today. Kathy Mac :cool:

inpaininnv
01-21-2005, 05:26 PM
Well Kathy I must say that I kinda had a bad feeling about going in...as I wrote before I pray that she does not switch me again and throw me into withdrawls. Well guess what?? Thats exactly what the dr did. She did not want to up the Oxycontin (20 every 8 hs) so she said lets go back to the Methadone!!!! I was like what??

Well last month she took me off the methadone cold turkey and started me at 20 mgs a day of the oxycontin. I thought I was going to die from the withdawl symptoms. I was sweating, shaking, and vomiting.

Well she said I needed to tough it out again and stop the Oxycontin right now today. I am so upset I do not want to go through this again. She at least gave me some phenergen to help with the nausea.

She now has me at Methadone 10 mgs every 4 hours. so 60 mgs a day basically. I thought Methadone was a LA med and was dosed every 8 to 12 hours???? Is that right?

Anyhoo....Thats where I am at. Oh and she also said no bt meds. That the Methadone should be enough. Do poeple on Methadone take BT meds? I have the rest of the lortab she gave me for BT with the oxy. Will lortab 7.5 work with Methadone? Or is it too weak and a waste?

Well I really hope this transition goes smoother than the last med switch. I have heard of people taking alot higher doses of Methadone then 40 mgs a day but like shoreline always says we are all different and our pain is different so...who knows what a low and high dose is.

The thing I don/t get is I wanted to the dr to just higher the Methadone dose last visit but who knows what she was thinking!!

Carla

Director
01-21-2005, 07:58 PM
Carla...Dosing on Methadone is really what the person is on it for and also their tolerance. I'm a chronic pain patient and I'm on Social Security Disability, so I've been on pain meds (mostly LA) for five years. Needless to say I have to have much higher doses than someone just starting on LA meds. And by the way, no, Methadone is technically not a LA med. It does however, have a long half life, so when you've been on it awhile you build up the level in your bloodstream. Shoreline can explain this much better than I can. I am on Methadone and have been for for about two years now (and my doctor isn't giving me anything for BT pain either). Prior to that I was on Oxycontin and I got up to 160 MGs TID or 480 mgs per day. Now on the Methadone, I am on 180 mgs a day. I get 18 (10 mg.) tabs a day and I take them when I feel I need them. Most people don't get even close to that level when taking Meth. I just have a high tolerance and a fast metabolism.

I hope I have helped out a little and answered some of your questions. Any more, let me know.

lissamarie66
01-13-2006, 02:42 PM
is it ok to take vicodin for bt pain with oxy? still my scheduled dose of every 4 hours, my oxy dose is 10 mg every 12 hours, however i have taken it 8 hours apart still keeping with the 20 mg total for the day, another question is what if i take the full 20mg at the same time and no pm dose is that okay ( 2 pills) 1 just doesn't seem to work for the pain. my ortho is not a good pain md and am waiting for my 2nd opinion at the end of the month. i will need a third surgery and my current md still still does not like to have his patients be pain free.

Blasterboy
01-13-2006, 03:22 PM
OMG, I was wondering why my sleep wasn't as good as it used to be. I started Oxycotin last week and am on 10mg x 3, split 6 hours apart during waking time.

I've started waking about 4am and tossing an turning somewhat and feeling quite a lot of pain. I'm allowed up to 75mg of Elavil before bed and had only been taking 50mg for the last few months, but with the onset of the desturbed sleep I've upped to 75mg again. It is helping and I trust this side effect will pass real fast, I thought it was a side effect of switching meds and the worsening pain; I thought most likely it was from coming off the Ultram, but reading these posts I guess it's a side effect of the Oxycotin and because of this I'm waking to feel pain I used to sleep nicely through!

I'm now taking Melatonin and a tablet that contains Valarian, hops, Camamile and Scullcap; I'll stick with this rountine for the short term to try and ease this sleeping issue and I'm sure I will then adjust to the Oxy and get my full nights sleep back, please God.....

Director
01-13-2006, 03:34 PM
Hi Lissamarie: I wouldn't advise you to take you Oxycontin any other way than the doctor told you to. Oxy is suppose to be a 12 hour medication according to Purdue Pharma the maker, but very few people get 12 hours of coverage out of it. That's why most docs write it for TID. If you were to double up on your dose, you'd have nothing for the night dose. Believe me, you don't want to go 24 hours between doses. Withdrawals can be hell, even on a low dose like yours. You need to ask your doc for a dose increase.

As far as taking the Hydrocodone you have left. Yes, it's ok to take it with Oxy. You didn't mention what the dose is, but it should be ok, just be careful and take it a few hours apart from the Oxy. You don't want to OD.

Director
01-13-2006, 03:46 PM
Hey Blasterboy: If I remember right, when I went on Oxycontin several years ago, I went through the same sleep problems. I was on Elavil at the time too, but that's when I got a script from my doc for Ambien. It works great and I wasn't waking early from pain. On the rare occasions I would wake up in the middle of the night, I would just take a Oxycodone I had for BT and go back to sleep. They now have Ambien CR, 12.5 mg, which is pretty good. I have a script for it and one for the regular Ambien, but haven't decided which one to go with. I did try a few of the CR from a sample my doctor gave me and they work pretty good.

I just thought I'd mention this to you and others too that are having sleep problems from Oxy.

tina76
01-13-2006, 05:14 PM
Director - Do you have sleep problems with the methadone? I don't remember. It's been keeping me up really bad at night still... I'm exhausted during the day but by the time bedtime hits and all my doses are taken fro the day I'm WIDE awake. And even when I DO fall asleep it's like a half sleep. I've been on the methadone for OVER a month now. Do you think this is ever goign to go away?

Director
01-13-2006, 06:39 PM
Hey Tina: I don't have problems sleeping on Methadone, but that's because of the meds I take at bedtime. I have had sleep problems ever since I have been a CP patient. Early on, my doctor put me on a night regimen of meds, so I could sleep through the night and not wake up and need to take a pain pill. I think at that time I was on Oxycontin and had Oxycodone IR, either 15 or 30 mg for BT pain.

You know I take 180 mg a day of Meth, so I normally take my last Methadone in the early evening. At bedtime, I take Elavil, 50 mg, Klonopin, 2 mg, and Ambien, 10 mg. With all that, I normally sleep the night until we get up at 5:00. I really don't know if I would have sleep problems at night or not. If I were you, I would give it some time and if it doesn't improve, ask you doctor about it. Ambien or Ambien CR are very good for sleep problems and they work fast. For me, it's usually about 15 minutes.

As usual, let me know if I can help.

tina76
01-14-2006, 01:35 PM
Right now I have a prescription for Trazadone for sleep and also have a script for Lorazapam for anxiety that I take time to time to help me sleep. The trazadone has not been helping AT ALL anymore. I was taking 50mg and I called them and told them it wasn't helping a month or so ago (this was even before I was put on the methadone) and they told me to go ahead and up it to 100mg as needed at bedtime. Still, nothing. I'm tired when I first take it, but it wears off so I haven't even bothered with it the past couple of weeks. So I'm up til 2am and I know it is because of the methadone because I didn't have that problem EVERY night before, just here and there. I take my last methadone dose at around 5-6pm. I guess I am most likely going to need to get something different for sleep. The late nights have not even STARTED to get any better and I've been on the methadone for a month and a half now... I don't foresee it changing a whole lot at this point. I just hate having to add yet another new med to the mix..... Oh well. I need to sleep.

ProphetofPain
01-18-2006, 05:41 PM
Hi Lissamarie: I wouldn't advise you to take you Oxycontin any other way than the doctor told you to. Oxy is suppose to be a 12 hour medication according to Purdue Pharma the maker, but very few people get 12 hours of coverage out of it. That's why most docs write it for TID. If you were to double up on your dose, you'd have nothing for the night dose. Believe me, you don't want to go 24 hours between doses. Withdrawals can be hell, even on a low dose like yours. You need to ask your doc for a dose increase.

As far as taking the Hydrocodone you have left. Yes, it's ok to take it with Oxy. You didn't mention what the dose is, but it should be ok, just be careful and take it a few hours apart from the Oxy. You don't want to OD.

My dr prescribes me 40mg 3x daily

Wren9
01-19-2006, 01:59 PM
Carla,

I'm sorry your doctor keeps switching you without regard to what you want. What dose of methadone were you on before she switched you to oc? You said she started you at 20 mg a day of the methadone, right? Well, I think she set you up for failure. Going from Methadone to oxycodone is approx. 5:1 ratio, so that if you were on 20 mg methadone, you would need (approx) 100 mg oxy. I bet she did not give you anywhere near enough oxy, hence the outrageous withdrawals. I am outraged on your behalf. For a doctor to leave you in pain AND withdrawals?! Personally, I would start looking for another doctor. I can see starting out slow and titrating you up, I can understand being cautious, BUT, in that case, she should have had you coming into the office every other day for dose increases. Not waiting it out for weeks at a time. Why did your doctor put you through all of the hassle (to put it mildly) of switching over if she was not going to properly titrate you?

The only "good" thing is I bet you will feel MUCH BETTER going from oxycodone to methadone as methadone is much more potent dose-for-dose. However, it seems like you did not like the fatigue/sleepiness of methadone, is that true? Did you prefer the oxycodone because it did not make you tired? Did you tell your doctor how you felt? Maybe your doctor was worried because the oc gave you "energy" (or at least kept you up at night) maybe your doctor thought that was a bad sign. Have you tried the sustained-release morphine products? IMO, they have side effects somewhere between oxycodone and methadone, not as awake as oxy and not as tired as methadone.

How are you feeling on the methadone again?

-Wren

Wren9
01-19-2006, 02:08 PM
Carla,

One more thing... You are going from 60 mg oxycodone to 60 mg methadone, that is a BIG increase in potency. Please be careful. If I were you, I would not take all the methadone at once until you know how you will do on it. Methadone is 3-10 times more potent than oxycodone (depending, among other things, on whether you are going from methadone to oxy or oxy to methadone). If it were me, I would start out at half that amount and work my way up if I needed to. I was on 240 mg oxy and switched to 40 mg of methadone, and I was fine, no pain, no withdrawals. That means I was taking 1/6th the dose, mg for mg. In your case, 1/6th the dose of 60 mg oxy would be 10 mg methadone.

Wren

inpaininnv
01-19-2006, 03:11 PM
Hey Wren

Thanks for you information. Yes the whole ordeal just went down hill from there and 2 yes 2 drs later I am finnally doing ok. The highest oxy was 60 mgs but the highest methadone was gosh like 120. I just think the meth was just not for me.

I am now stable on the 100 Duragesic patch with oxy 15 for BT. In the past I have been on Meth, Avinza, and Oxy in that order. My biggest complaint with the patch is the constant hot flashes. I just can seem to get my temp regulated. I just hate to be so hot and so cold every 10 minutes..lol

I thought I had read here that when you change your patch that you should never leave the old one on. Something to do with tolerance or something. I really do not remember. If you change every 48 hrs isn't there med still left in the patch?

Thanks
Carla

Director
01-19-2006, 03:23 PM
Hi Carla: Yes, if you're changing your patch every 48 hours, there is still some medication in the old patch. That's why they tell you to fold it and flush it, so it won't get in the hands of a little one and cause problems. The patches (according to the manufactures) are made for 72 hours duration. Everybody that uses them, for the most part, don't get 72 hours from them. That's why a lot of docs write the script for every 48 hours.

If you're on a 48 hour schedule, it's probably best you not leave the old patch on, when changing to a new one. For at least some time, you'll be getting as much as double dose (about 200 mcg) and that will drive your tolerance up over time. I would imagine it would depend on the person, some might get 200 mcg, while others only get 150, but you will get more for a period of time.

wolfmarket
01-20-2006, 06:25 PM
Oxycodone can be energizing. I take 30mg for BT (also on 100 mcg Fentanyl patch) and I find that the Oxy really does put a charge into me every so often. Of course, some of that could come from the reduction in pain.


Alan

Director
01-20-2006, 08:06 PM
Hey Alan: That's normal for Oxycodone and Hydrocodone. A lot of people (me included) would get a boost when taking their meds. I'm sure part of it is the medication and some, like you pointed out, is the pain reduction from taking the med. That's why some people get in trouble with these drugs. They are chasing that buzz or energized feeling they got from the med, especially when they first started taking it. Can you spell addict?

Gabe30
01-21-2006, 04:51 AM
Hey Tina: I don't have problems sleeping on Methadone, but that's because of the meds I take at bedtime. I have had sleep problems ever since I have been a CP patient. Early on, my doctor put me on a night regimen of meds, so I could sleep through the night and not wake up and need to take a pain pill. I think at that time I was on Oxycontin and had Oxycodone IR, either 15 or 30 mg for BT pain.

You know I take 180 mg a day of Meth, so I normally take my last Methadone in the early evening. At bedtime, I take Elavil, 50 mg, Klonopin, 2 mg, and Ambien, 10 mg. With all that, I normally sleep the night until we get up at 5:00. I really don't know if I would have sleep problems at night or not. If I were you, I would give it some time and if it doesn't improve, ask you doctor about it. Ambien or Ambien CR are very good for sleep problems and they work fast. For me, it's usually about 15 minutes.

As usual, let me know if I can help.


Hey Director! :wave:

I see my PM doctor in 2 weeks. Currently, I'm on 80mg of OxyContin daily, 30mg of percocet for BT pain, four skelaxin daily (800mg each), Lyrica for nerve pain which is a God send for me and ambien 10mg for sleep.

Here's my question. I am working out again because the cymbalta has totally helped me out with energy throughout the day and I feel great again. With working out comes more pain again. Seriously, most days I need 60mg of Oxycodone and thats double of what I take now. Should I maybe ask my PM doctor for an increase in OxyContin or an increase for BT pain? It's very frustrating as you know.

Also about ambien. I went to bed at 10pm tonight and I'm already up here at 2am. Ambien works great! :rolleyes: Should I ask for Ambien CR? I have moderate to high tolerance on meds and what dosage is there for ambien cr that will keep me down all night and not be drowsy when I get up in the morning?

Thanks. :)

madhatter
01-21-2006, 11:59 AM
Hello group! I've been on O.C for a few yrs, and at first i had trouble sleeping.And what i tried,and seemed to work for me,is switching the time i take my dose. I was taking my final dose of the day at 7pm,wich you know after 6 hrs,it releases the oxycodone[depending on dose] so say like by midnight,i got a surge of energy.Now i'm taking my doses tid,and my doc. put me on clonapin before bed,and it helps out just fine.

Director
01-22-2006, 11:56 AM
Hey Gabe: You really should ask the doctor about an increase in your base med for sure. General rule of thumb, is if you have to take more than two doses of your BT med, then you need an increase in your base med, Oxycontin for you.

As far as sleep, if Ambien isn't doing the job it should for you, why don't you give Ambien CR a try. It releases a little throughout the night. I've tried it and it seems to work pretty good. Also, are you taking Elavil at night? If not, that will help, along with the Ambien CR. Good luck and I hope a couple tweaks of your meds will help.





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