Leslie12
01-26-2005, 12:01 AM
Hello,
I am wanting to hear some combinations of blood pressure meds that have helped others on this site. I have been on clonidine, vermapamil, taztia, toprol, atenolol, coragard, micardis,cardizem, all in large amounts at different times, the list goes on, many types tried at the same time still diastolic blood pressure doesn't go lower than 100 most of the time. I have had this going on for a long time and I am concerned, I have a cardiologist trying to help me, and an electrophysiologist because I also have a high resting HR. Secondary cause for HBP have been looked at a few years back. I do have symptoms with my high blood pressure, short of breath and light headedness, this gets really bad when diastolic is around 120.
Thanks for reading what I have written,
Leslie
age 43
I am wanting to hear some combinations of blood pressure meds that have helped others on this site. I have been on clonidine, vermapamil, taztia, toprol, atenolol, coragard, micardis,cardizem, all in large amounts at different times, the list goes on, many types tried at the same time still diastolic blood pressure doesn't go lower than 100 most of the time. I have had this going on for a long time and I am concerned, I have a cardiologist trying to help me, and an electrophysiologist because I also have a high resting HR. Secondary cause for HBP have been looked at a few years back. I do have symptoms with my high blood pressure, short of breath and light headedness, this gets really bad when diastolic is around 120.
Thanks for reading what I have written,
Leslie
age 43
Sponsor
ebrown
01-26-2005, 09:25 AM
I have been taking Adalat 60mg (CCB) for 4years and my blood pressure is always around 140/70. I recently changed drs and now I'm taking Cozaar 100mg in the morning and Adalat 60mg in the afternoon. I been taking my blood pressure for the past week in the morning and then at night. It between 127/65 to 150/70 with my pulse around 62-75. I have never been able to get it steady since the dr first said I had high blood pressure. I work out four days a week, watch my salt intake and eat a lot of fruit and vegs. Can't figure it out either. I'm 5' 7" and 175 lbs.
mgraylorn
01-26-2005, 01:40 PM
I'm sorry I can't help you. I get excellent control with clonidine and taztia at fairly low doses.
Have you checked kidney function recently? Tests several years back may not indicate what is happening now. You might try an endocrinologist for kidney and adrenal type functions. Other problems like thyroid might play a part too.
Do you watch your diet, try to get exercise and keep your weight down?
Have you checked kidney function recently? Tests several years back may not indicate what is happening now. You might try an endocrinologist for kidney and adrenal type functions. Other problems like thyroid might play a part too.
Do you watch your diet, try to get exercise and keep your weight down?
Leslie12
01-26-2005, 01:46 PM
Dear ebrown,
I will have to look into adalat. I am on a CCB but haven't tried that one yet. BP sure is a confusing thing, I know one thing mine is not stress related, mine is high all the time even when lying down for long periods watching TV or reading a book. I just got home from volunteering at the hospital which is about 4 hours on my feet. I try to keep active but it is hard sometimes when I have symptoms.
Leslie
I will have to look into adalat. I am on a CCB but haven't tried that one yet. BP sure is a confusing thing, I know one thing mine is not stress related, mine is high all the time even when lying down for long periods watching TV or reading a book. I just got home from volunteering at the hospital which is about 4 hours on my feet. I try to keep active but it is hard sometimes when I have symptoms.
Leslie
ebrown
01-26-2005, 01:52 PM
Leslie;
I think the main thing is be active and happy and try to eat right most of the time. In this day I know its a little hard as everybody want to sell pre packaged food including all the sodium. I just keep plugging along and hopefully it will be enough to at least not make my blood pressure go any higher.
Ed
I think the main thing is be active and happy and try to eat right most of the time. In this day I know its a little hard as everybody want to sell pre packaged food including all the sodium. I just keep plugging along and hopefully it will be enough to at least not make my blood pressure go any higher.
Ed
Leslie12
01-26-2005, 02:00 PM
Dear mgraylord,
I have wondered many times about my kidney function but I just had test less than a year ago. My weight is high right now, but I even had high BP as a teen at 105 lbs. HBP went away between 20-40years old, came back around age 40. I had thyroid test and even kidney anigram.
Take care,
leslie
I have wondered many times about my kidney function but I just had test less than a year ago. My weight is high right now, but I even had high BP as a teen at 105 lbs. HBP went away between 20-40years old, came back around age 40. I had thyroid test and even kidney anigram.
Take care,
leslie
Random2
01-26-2005, 02:27 PM
They can test kidney fuction in blood tests like I stated in a previous post. They don't need to run a scan if BUN & Creatinine & the ratios are in line with what is normal. I have been to 3 docs. & a specialist & none of them mentioned a renal scan. They tested my thyroid which is fine. The 2nd doc. said it wasn't necessary to test for pheo, because it is so rare & I don't show any of the symptoms.....
Lenin
01-26-2005, 07:21 PM
Leslie,
The easiest effective combination for me has been Cozaar (losartan) and hydrochlorothiazide.
Ahh, your mention of Corgard brought back memories- ALL BAD, but it DID drop my BP to levels I thought were only achied by corpses...unfortunately, that's exactly how I felt!
The easiest effective combination for me has been Cozaar (losartan) and hydrochlorothiazide.
Ahh, your mention of Corgard brought back memories- ALL BAD, but it DID drop my BP to levels I thought were only achied by corpses...unfortunately, that's exactly how I felt!
Leslie12
01-26-2005, 07:59 PM
Dear Lenin,
That must of been terrible having a real low BP . Even if i get my HR to come down , my BP stays up. Right now I am taking 200mg toprol, 360mg zaztia, micardis 80mg, my BP today was 150/100. I don't feel good on these meds. My doc is trying to work with me on this, so I am glad about that. I have to laugh when I hear someone say that HBP doesnt have symptoms. I know you understand that low BP has symptoms.
Take care,
Leslie
That must of been terrible having a real low BP . Even if i get my HR to come down , my BP stays up. Right now I am taking 200mg toprol, 360mg zaztia, micardis 80mg, my BP today was 150/100. I don't feel good on these meds. My doc is trying to work with me on this, so I am glad about that. I have to laugh when I hear someone say that HBP doesnt have symptoms. I know you understand that low BP has symptoms.
Take care,
Leslie
granitedude
01-26-2005, 08:47 PM
Lotrel and hctz has been working for me.
bharkins
01-26-2005, 10:15 PM
Leslie, You said that you had to laugh when someone says that HBP has no symptoms. Well, this aught to be a real knee slapper because I had no idea I had HBP until I had a stroke one morning. It took almost four years and four types of medications to get my pressure under control. When I got to the ER my pressure was about 254/169.
jtu91952
01-27-2005, 11:37 AM
The highest my bp has good is 236/120. I didn't have any symptoms either. I calledd my cardio and she kept asking me if i had a headache or chest pain. I had neither and i felt just fine. HBP is a silent killer. When i had both my heart attacks, all i felt was a dull pain the chest. I though it was probably heartburn or something.
Leslie12
01-27-2005, 03:23 PM
Dear bharkins and jtu,
WOW that is high blood pressure and you had no idea. Mine seems to come with symptoms, I do feel blessed for that. How are you both doing now??
Leslie
WOW that is high blood pressure and you had no idea. Mine seems to come with symptoms, I do feel blessed for that. How are you both doing now??
Leslie
jtu91952
01-27-2005, 05:52 PM
Leslie and bharkins, i think i've finally found a cardio that can help me lower my bp. Bharkins, you know the troubles i've had with hbp. My cardio prescribed norvasc 5 (now 10mgs) and a new diuretic called, torsemide. The pharmacist said it was stronger than lasix. I've only taken it twice and already my bp has gone from 170-205/72-110 to normal pressure of 130ish over 80ish.
So far, i haven't had too many side effects, at least nothing i can't live with. It is such a relief to get norm readings again. I felt so helpless.
So far, i haven't had too many side effects, at least nothing i can't live with. It is such a relief to get norm readings again. I felt so helpless.
bharkins
01-28-2005, 01:19 PM
JTU,
I am so happy for you. I sincerely hope that things continue to go well for you on Norvasc. Norvasc is also one of the meds I take.
I am so happy for you. I sincerely hope that things continue to go well for you on Norvasc. Norvasc is also one of the meds I take.
jtu91952
01-28-2005, 02:35 PM
Thank u bharkins/ I had gone so long with hbp that i thought it was part of my nature.Like you said once, i have to tolerate some side effects. Norvasc does cause some side effects(now leg & back pain) but i can deal with it.
Today my bp was 132/81. yes!
Today my bp was 132/81. yes!
bharkins
01-28-2005, 04:47 PM
JTU,
Great number!!! When you start to see good numbers, you can tolerate the side effects. I know, I have been there. Some people on the board get annoyed with me when I say that I accept the side effects, but my good numbers were a long time coming and I just suck it up.
You said that you were given a new diuretic, torsemide. Is that like HCTZ?Does it also cause high cholesterol and weight gain?
Great number!!! When you start to see good numbers, you can tolerate the side effects. I know, I have been there. Some people on the board get annoyed with me when I say that I accept the side effects, but my good numbers were a long time coming and I just suck it up.
You said that you were given a new diuretic, torsemide. Is that like HCTZ?Does it also cause high cholesterol and weight gain?
jtu91952
01-28-2005, 09:17 PM
Bharkins, no its not suppose to be like hctz, but more like lasix(loop diuretic) only stronger. At least that's what my pharmacist told me. I didn't look it up. At this point, all i care about is good bp readings.
Oh yes, i was told that torsrmide would increase cholesterol a little, but i have decided to take the niaspan500mgs and continue exercise and diet.
I have a question for you, do you sometimes get difficulty catching your breathe with norvasc? its not quite as bad as when i first started norvasc, but someimes its difficult to catch my breathe. It is not bad enough to make me stop taking the drug though.
Oh yes, i was told that torsrmide would increase cholesterol a little, but i have decided to take the niaspan500mgs and continue exercise and diet.
I have a question for you, do you sometimes get difficulty catching your breathe with norvasc? its not quite as bad as when i first started norvasc, but someimes its difficult to catch my breathe. It is not bad enough to make me stop taking the drug though.
bharkins
01-29-2005, 12:56 PM
Jtu,
No I do not have difficulty catching my breath. Instead, the Norvasc caused some edema but the increased diuretic took care of it.
No I do not have difficulty catching my breath. Instead, the Norvasc caused some edema but the increased diuretic took care of it.
jtu91952
01-29-2005, 12:59 PM
Thank u bharkins. I don't get edema too much. Manybe it is the torsemide that's causing the difficulty in breathing. It not all the time, just occasionally.
shishi
02-17-2005, 09:09 PM
Hi, I just read your post and am having similiar symptoms. Wondered how you have made out since you posted? I am 34 yrs old. Not overweight, no smoking/drinking, no diabeties, no birth control pills. Did have a high renin level come back suggesting kidney malfunction - but the mri looked fine. The shortness of breath and dizziness are really getting to me. I am hoping to be able to go back to work on 2/20 but am unsure. Did you work during your symptoms? Anyway, I hope somethin is better. Shishi
JIMP
02-21-2005, 08:14 PM
One word: "salt"
Try to get it under 400 Mg. per day. This is why many BPM,s are not as affective.
Work hard and get it down, blood pressure will drop in proportion to salt intake.
But yet, you will probably still needs meds for awhile, maybe a long while, but they should become more affective as healing takes place.
Try to get it under 400 Mg. per day. This is why many BPM,s are not as affective.
Work hard and get it down, blood pressure will drop in proportion to salt intake.
But yet, you will probably still needs meds for awhile, maybe a long while, but they should become more affective as healing takes place.
mrmojo
02-21-2005, 09:24 PM
JIMP - salt isnt the answer for everyone
I tried the no salt diet for a couple months & it didnt lower my BP enough to notice anything - it did, however cause my BP to spike up really, really high when i did eat any salt at all
so i started eating salt again & my BP is still the same, regular salt consumption doesnt affect it
I tried the no salt diet for a couple months & it didnt lower my BP enough to notice anything - it did, however cause my BP to spike up really, really high when i did eat any salt at all
so i started eating salt again & my BP is still the same, regular salt consumption doesnt affect it
JIMP
02-21-2005, 11:11 PM
JIMP - salt isnt the answer for everyone
I tried the no salt diet for a couple months & it didnt lower my BP enough to notice anything - it did, however cause my BP to spike up really, really high when i did eat any salt at all
so i started eating salt again & my BP is still the same, regular salt consumption doesnt affect it
How low did you get your sodium intake down to? Moreover how long did you hold it there? You say two months?
There is hidden sodium in everything we eat. It takes very little to get it over, lets say, 2000Mgs. One burger and fries could EASILY do that.
You have to lower sodium intake and try to keep it there for awhile in order to see the benefits as the kidneys have been damaged over time.
The sudden spike when you started to eat salt tells the story. It actually was affecting you.
Here is a clip from WebMD:
If you hold onto more water, then you may feel more bloated. Also, your blood pressure may increase, because you have more volume in a closed system -- like forcing more air into a tire that's already full. One of the consequences of high blood pressure is progressive kidney damage, as your blood hits the kidney tubules with too much force. As kidneys become more damaged, they lose the ability to excrete salt into your urine, so you hold onto more water to dilute the concentration of sodium. This increased volume increases your blood pressure, causing more kidney damage, and so on in a vicious cycle
So, if my doctor is correct, and he has proven this in his practice, then you are like everyone else with HBP and have some kidney damage to some degree.
The good news is that it can heal.
What else could it be?
My doc even says that in a low salt diet that arteries will actually become "flexible" again thus lowering blood pressure.
Salt IS in fact the culprit.
I tried the no salt diet for a couple months & it didnt lower my BP enough to notice anything - it did, however cause my BP to spike up really, really high when i did eat any salt at all
so i started eating salt again & my BP is still the same, regular salt consumption doesnt affect it
How low did you get your sodium intake down to? Moreover how long did you hold it there? You say two months?
There is hidden sodium in everything we eat. It takes very little to get it over, lets say, 2000Mgs. One burger and fries could EASILY do that.
You have to lower sodium intake and try to keep it there for awhile in order to see the benefits as the kidneys have been damaged over time.
The sudden spike when you started to eat salt tells the story. It actually was affecting you.
Here is a clip from WebMD:
If you hold onto more water, then you may feel more bloated. Also, your blood pressure may increase, because you have more volume in a closed system -- like forcing more air into a tire that's already full. One of the consequences of high blood pressure is progressive kidney damage, as your blood hits the kidney tubules with too much force. As kidneys become more damaged, they lose the ability to excrete salt into your urine, so you hold onto more water to dilute the concentration of sodium. This increased volume increases your blood pressure, causing more kidney damage, and so on in a vicious cycle
So, if my doctor is correct, and he has proven this in his practice, then you are like everyone else with HBP and have some kidney damage to some degree.
The good news is that it can heal.
What else could it be?
My doc even says that in a low salt diet that arteries will actually become "flexible" again thus lowering blood pressure.
Salt IS in fact the culprit.
mrmojo
02-22-2005, 12:16 AM
JIMP - as I have posted before - I was cooking my own food from scratch - there was basically no salt in it
my BP didnt go down during this diet, and it did spike up severely when i did have to eat something with salt in it when i was out & had to eat, usually i only ate out 1 time per week
some people react to salt, others dont, its not the same for everyone, this is a proven medical fact
in the couple of days you have been posting here, you sound like you are trying to sell something, you should do a little research before you post "THE CURE TO HIGH BP" as reducing salt is the great cure all for everyone, if it was that easy noone would have high BP
my BP didnt go down during this diet, and it did spike up severely when i did have to eat something with salt in it when i was out & had to eat, usually i only ate out 1 time per week
some people react to salt, others dont, its not the same for everyone, this is a proven medical fact
in the couple of days you have been posting here, you sound like you are trying to sell something, you should do a little research before you post "THE CURE TO HIGH BP" as reducing salt is the great cure all for everyone, if it was that easy noone would have high BP
Palamedes
02-22-2005, 05:11 AM
My doc even says that in a low salt diet that arteries will actually become "flexible" again thus lowering blood pressure.I completely disagree with this statement. What will happen in many people is that their kidneys will start pumping out the renin. And, angiotensin II levels will get very high. This, in turn, will cause vasoconstriction. I don't see how this could be considered "flexible". "Damaging" might be a better word to use here.
Salt IS in fact the culprit.JIMP, I do agree with you that low sodium does reduce volume in just about everyone. However, the above mentioned feedback system pretty much nullifies most of the benefit of a low-sodium diet for many folks. And, in some individuals with a very active renin-angiotensin system, their BP will actually go up as a result of a low-sodium diet. Of couse, this feedback mechanism varies greatly among different people. There are also many folks who don't have much of feedback (low renin) who get very good results by reducing sodium.
Having said all that, if you are taking something that effectively blocks this feedback system, like an ACE Inhibitor, an ARB, or to a lesser extent a beta-blocker, then, you can, in fact benefit greatly from a low-sodium diet.
Pal
Salt IS in fact the culprit.JIMP, I do agree with you that low sodium does reduce volume in just about everyone. However, the above mentioned feedback system pretty much nullifies most of the benefit of a low-sodium diet for many folks. And, in some individuals with a very active renin-angiotensin system, their BP will actually go up as a result of a low-sodium diet. Of couse, this feedback mechanism varies greatly among different people. There are also many folks who don't have much of feedback (low renin) who get very good results by reducing sodium.
Having said all that, if you are taking something that effectively blocks this feedback system, like an ACE Inhibitor, an ARB, or to a lesser extent a beta-blocker, then, you can, in fact benefit greatly from a low-sodium diet.
Pal
Lenin
02-22-2005, 08:45 AM
JIMP,
Here is a good (LONG) article that discusses the two distinctly different types of hypertension, naturietic and renin hypertensions. It explains how very differently the two groups of people with each condition respond to pressor stimulants like salt. I am solidly in the camp of the "salt-sensitive" and get an overwhelmingly good response to thiazides and almost nothing from ARB's and ACEI's. I'm sure there are people, if not the majority, who are exactly the opposite and some even who have elements of both types.
The site is COMPLETELY non-commercial:
http://www.stress.org/Hypertension.htm
Here is a good (LONG) article that discusses the two distinctly different types of hypertension, naturietic and renin hypertensions. It explains how very differently the two groups of people with each condition respond to pressor stimulants like salt. I am solidly in the camp of the "salt-sensitive" and get an overwhelmingly good response to thiazides and almost nothing from ARB's and ACEI's. I'm sure there are people, if not the majority, who are exactly the opposite and some even who have elements of both types.
The site is COMPLETELY non-commercial:
http://www.stress.org/Hypertension.htm
mrmojo
02-22-2005, 09:36 AM
lenin - thanks for the link
looks interesting, but it sure is going to take a while to read
looks interesting, but it sure is going to take a while to read
Palamedes
02-22-2005, 10:28 AM
And, if you want to see Dr. Laragh, here's a video:
http://www.conversations.acc.org/modules/conv/acc/0804c/main.asp
Dr. Laragh is huge proponent of monotherapy. And, he likes to classify folks into the two categories. This is great for the first drug. But, he doesn't really talk much about what to do for the second drug. What he doesn't say is that once you address the "R" problem, you are now a "V" person.
Pal
http://www.conversations.acc.org/modules/conv/acc/0804c/main.asp
Dr. Laragh is huge proponent of monotherapy. And, he likes to classify folks into the two categories. This is great for the first drug. But, he doesn't really talk much about what to do for the second drug. What he doesn't say is that once you address the "R" problem, you are now a "V" person.
Pal
Lenin
02-22-2005, 10:58 AM
Pal,
I sympathise with the R types who have a perhaps harder job, but the doctors in your kindly provided TV show did sort of agree that while approximately 1/3 got good numbers with thiazide monotherapy, ANOTHER third got success with lisinopril alone.
The saddest cases are those who cannot get control with even 3 drugs.
Of interest were the special groups like older blacks who got as high as 70% results with thiazide monotherapy for obvious volume mediated hypertension.
I guess it's extremely important to determine what kind of hypertensive we are. A shame is for a person taking more and more of increasing numbers of renin moderators as a result of a doctor not having a clue what he's doing beyond reading flyers from drug companies.
A FASCINATING discussion among the doctors...I was glad to see and hear Laragh especially.(Too bad Cornell is far from me.)
Here's my sort of bootstrap picture of the relashionship, a hypothesis if you will:
A given is that the body seeks to preserve BP in order to sustain life. To do this evolution has provided feedback loops and different counter measures to accomplish the same thing primarily by the exquisite adrenal kidney electrolyte balancing scheme. So in the presence of proper salt and volume, the renin-angiotensin can relax. As soon as life is endangered by falling volume (kidney damage, torn blood vessel, lack of water, screwed up electrolytes) the renin ststem kicks in to keep BP up by constricting the vascular bed and making sure the brain gets fed. In worst cases for the caveman this might have bought him enough time to staunch the bleeding, crawl to a stream or lick on a salt outcropping somewhere.:D
Since salt was always historically hard to come by, this renin system has gotten QUITE good at doing its work, even to the point of needing to be always sort of ON.
Throw a blizzard of salt into everything we eat over just a few generations and the renin system isn't trained for it; it can't stay quiet enough...evolution takes LOTS of time.
So the always ON caveman's renin system faced with high serum volume because of insulting overdoses of salt day after day for a lifetime gives a great deal of people hypertension.
I guess the rarer converse is where kidney damage or hormonal difficulties produce too much renin /Angiotensin. Then the salt collecting system is shut down somewhat because it isn't needed . Since there isn't much evolutionary need for a runaway renin system, I sort of view it as more of a disease state, but I don't doubt for a minute that it is often caused by kidney damage from decades of sodium overdosage!
(I know the oversimplifications might be unbearable for some...I also know I ignored the intricasies of how the renin system influences the volume system via aldosterone and vice versa, but I like to try to see things in a way that make the most simple sense to me; over time I try to flesh them out.)
Right now I consider myself lucky to have determined that I am squarely in the V (volume, sodium dependent) hypertension group. Now I only wish that thiazides were totally without side effects...they're NOT!
I am also squarely behind JIMP's assertion that a low sodium diet will benefit almost all hypertensives; directly for V types and indirectly for R types.
Pal, a question for you:
I know you feel the need to control sodium in order to get good benefit from your ARB medication. I agree that without sodium control ARB's and ACEI's aren't very good for most people. I also remember that you were on HYZAAR some time ago. Why did you forgo the thiazide? God know, it's EASIER than salt restriction in this world of ours. Did you have untoward side effects? Care to share? (If you mentioned it in the past, forgive my memory.)
My major complaint is that thiazide may have a deleterious effect on the really IMPORTANT plumbing, and I don't mean my arteries:D:D. (Well not DIRECTLY anyway!)
I sympathise with the R types who have a perhaps harder job, but the doctors in your kindly provided TV show did sort of agree that while approximately 1/3 got good numbers with thiazide monotherapy, ANOTHER third got success with lisinopril alone.
The saddest cases are those who cannot get control with even 3 drugs.
Of interest were the special groups like older blacks who got as high as 70% results with thiazide monotherapy for obvious volume mediated hypertension.
I guess it's extremely important to determine what kind of hypertensive we are. A shame is for a person taking more and more of increasing numbers of renin moderators as a result of a doctor not having a clue what he's doing beyond reading flyers from drug companies.
A FASCINATING discussion among the doctors...I was glad to see and hear Laragh especially.(Too bad Cornell is far from me.)
Here's my sort of bootstrap picture of the relashionship, a hypothesis if you will:
A given is that the body seeks to preserve BP in order to sustain life. To do this evolution has provided feedback loops and different counter measures to accomplish the same thing primarily by the exquisite adrenal kidney electrolyte balancing scheme. So in the presence of proper salt and volume, the renin-angiotensin can relax. As soon as life is endangered by falling volume (kidney damage, torn blood vessel, lack of water, screwed up electrolytes) the renin ststem kicks in to keep BP up by constricting the vascular bed and making sure the brain gets fed. In worst cases for the caveman this might have bought him enough time to staunch the bleeding, crawl to a stream or lick on a salt outcropping somewhere.:D
Since salt was always historically hard to come by, this renin system has gotten QUITE good at doing its work, even to the point of needing to be always sort of ON.
Throw a blizzard of salt into everything we eat over just a few generations and the renin system isn't trained for it; it can't stay quiet enough...evolution takes LOTS of time.
So the always ON caveman's renin system faced with high serum volume because of insulting overdoses of salt day after day for a lifetime gives a great deal of people hypertension.
I guess the rarer converse is where kidney damage or hormonal difficulties produce too much renin /Angiotensin. Then the salt collecting system is shut down somewhat because it isn't needed . Since there isn't much evolutionary need for a runaway renin system, I sort of view it as more of a disease state, but I don't doubt for a minute that it is often caused by kidney damage from decades of sodium overdosage!
(I know the oversimplifications might be unbearable for some...I also know I ignored the intricasies of how the renin system influences the volume system via aldosterone and vice versa, but I like to try to see things in a way that make the most simple sense to me; over time I try to flesh them out.)
Right now I consider myself lucky to have determined that I am squarely in the V (volume, sodium dependent) hypertension group. Now I only wish that thiazides were totally without side effects...they're NOT!
I am also squarely behind JIMP's assertion that a low sodium diet will benefit almost all hypertensives; directly for V types and indirectly for R types.
Pal, a question for you:
I know you feel the need to control sodium in order to get good benefit from your ARB medication. I agree that without sodium control ARB's and ACEI's aren't very good for most people. I also remember that you were on HYZAAR some time ago. Why did you forgo the thiazide? God know, it's EASIER than salt restriction in this world of ours. Did you have untoward side effects? Care to share? (If you mentioned it in the past, forgive my memory.)
My major complaint is that thiazide may have a deleterious effect on the really IMPORTANT plumbing, and I don't mean my arteries:D:D. (Well not DIRECTLY anyway!)
mrmojo
02-22-2005, 11:05 AM
And what about all those people whose high BP doesnt originate in the kidneys?
If most treatments target kidney issues, there are a lot of people that wont benefit from any of these
I think i may be one of these people - any med i have been on lowers my BP initially, then after a while my BP will swing all over the place, and sometimes go way higher
At least now, without meds, i am always in the same range
If most treatments target kidney issues, there are a lot of people that wont benefit from any of these
I think i may be one of these people - any med i have been on lowers my BP initially, then after a while my BP will swing all over the place, and sometimes go way higher
At least now, without meds, i am always in the same range
Lenin
02-22-2005, 12:10 PM
mojo,
I sort of think of the "kidney people" as the R type and the others (maybe a quarter) as the "SALT people," the V type. Of course, EVERYTHING related to Bp is in some way kidney related, either primarily or secondarily.
I'm with you on the best med is no med at all. I may decide that's where I want to stay but it will mean convincing myself viscerally that 135-145/85 to 95 is OK with occasional higher spikes.
If it weren't for proven coronary artery plaquing I would choose the no-drug route in a "heartbeat." Doubt about what we choose is always aaround the corner.
I'm operating like the cotton farmer trying to control his crop infestation: I'm willing to live with "lesser of two weevils!":D
I sort of think of the "kidney people" as the R type and the others (maybe a quarter) as the "SALT people," the V type. Of course, EVERYTHING related to Bp is in some way kidney related, either primarily or secondarily.
I'm with you on the best med is no med at all. I may decide that's where I want to stay but it will mean convincing myself viscerally that 135-145/85 to 95 is OK with occasional higher spikes.
If it weren't for proven coronary artery plaquing I would choose the no-drug route in a "heartbeat." Doubt about what we choose is always aaround the corner.
I'm operating like the cotton farmer trying to control his crop infestation: I'm willing to live with "lesser of two weevils!":D
Palamedes
02-22-2005, 12:14 PM
Pal, a question for you:
I know you feel the need to control sodium in order to get good benefit from your ARB medication. I agree that without sodium control ARB's and ACEI's aren't very good for most people. I also remember that you were on HYZAAR some time ago. Why did you forgo the thiazide? God know, it's EASIER than salt restriction in this world of ours. Did you have untoward side effects? Care to share? (If you mentioned it in the past, forgive my memory.)
My major complaint is that thiazide may have a deleterious effect on the really IMPORTANT plumbing, and I don't mean my arteries:D:D. (Well not DIRECTLY anyway!)Actually, the ARB (Benicar) still works if I consume a lot of sodium. But, it's only half as effective. My BP is more of a borderline case anyway. In fact, if I get too militant with sodium, my BP will drop to about 100/60. I don't feel too bad. But, I start to get light-headed when I get up first thing in the morning. So, I keep my sodium around 1000 - 1500mg per day. That keeps my BP averaging around 115/70. If I eat lots of sodium, it will go to around 125/80. Unmedicated, it was around 135/85 - I know, this is kinda bordline here. Before medication, I tried low sodium. And, it did nothing for my BP. But, then after being on Benicar, I started noticing that I was salt-sensitive. So, I researched and found tons of stuff on it.
For HYZAAR, the main problem I was having was weight gain. I dropped it after 1 month after gaining 10 lbs. The reason for the weight gain was pretty obvious to me... I was eating all the time. And, the reason was that I constant felt insanely hungry. Also, incredibly, I had noticed zero improvement in my BP for that whole month. My hypothesis is that the ARB, losartan, was providing an ineffective blockade. And, my body was compensating for the HCTZ.
Pal
I know you feel the need to control sodium in order to get good benefit from your ARB medication. I agree that without sodium control ARB's and ACEI's aren't very good for most people. I also remember that you were on HYZAAR some time ago. Why did you forgo the thiazide? God know, it's EASIER than salt restriction in this world of ours. Did you have untoward side effects? Care to share? (If you mentioned it in the past, forgive my memory.)
My major complaint is that thiazide may have a deleterious effect on the really IMPORTANT plumbing, and I don't mean my arteries:D:D. (Well not DIRECTLY anyway!)Actually, the ARB (Benicar) still works if I consume a lot of sodium. But, it's only half as effective. My BP is more of a borderline case anyway. In fact, if I get too militant with sodium, my BP will drop to about 100/60. I don't feel too bad. But, I start to get light-headed when I get up first thing in the morning. So, I keep my sodium around 1000 - 1500mg per day. That keeps my BP averaging around 115/70. If I eat lots of sodium, it will go to around 125/80. Unmedicated, it was around 135/85 - I know, this is kinda bordline here. Before medication, I tried low sodium. And, it did nothing for my BP. But, then after being on Benicar, I started noticing that I was salt-sensitive. So, I researched and found tons of stuff on it.
For HYZAAR, the main problem I was having was weight gain. I dropped it after 1 month after gaining 10 lbs. The reason for the weight gain was pretty obvious to me... I was eating all the time. And, the reason was that I constant felt insanely hungry. Also, incredibly, I had noticed zero improvement in my BP for that whole month. My hypothesis is that the ARB, losartan, was providing an ineffective blockade. And, my body was compensating for the HCTZ.
Pal
mrmojo
02-22-2005, 12:34 PM
Lenin - I dont know that I'm an R or a V
I just went back thru my excel spreadsheet, and my diastolic (which is what I'm really concerned with) shows a 1 point difference in the averages between eating salt & not eating salt
My average readings from before i quit the benicar hctz are the same as they are now, the range was just greater on the meds - higher highs & lower lows
I havent had coffee for a while, and there the average diastolic difference is 1 point, although there were a few isolated times that my BP (especially the systolic) jumped up really high immediately after having coffee
The only thing i have found that reliably lowers my BP is alcohol - if I have just 1 whisky on the rocks in the evening, my BP drops down to 130's over low 80's, makes me wonder if stress is a factor in my case
I just went back thru my excel spreadsheet, and my diastolic (which is what I'm really concerned with) shows a 1 point difference in the averages between eating salt & not eating salt
My average readings from before i quit the benicar hctz are the same as they are now, the range was just greater on the meds - higher highs & lower lows
I havent had coffee for a while, and there the average diastolic difference is 1 point, although there were a few isolated times that my BP (especially the systolic) jumped up really high immediately after having coffee
The only thing i have found that reliably lowers my BP is alcohol - if I have just 1 whisky on the rocks in the evening, my BP drops down to 130's over low 80's, makes me wonder if stress is a factor in my case
Lenin
02-22-2005, 02:21 PM
mrmojo,
Well then, keep it up. The single whisky has the added benefit of usually raising your HDL, something we all love.
It sounds like you might be the normal salt (aldosterone) as well as normal renin and thus probably not need htese meds at all.
I found that thiazide works GREAT GUNS when I am full of salt, and almost not at all when I am normo-saline :D:D. I can (and sometimes DO) TITRATE the stuff depending on the amount of squish. (Oh the doctors just LOVE to hear stuff like that.)
Since my first HCTZ prescription was in 1975, I've had a LOT of time to experiment.
It's absolutely classic: if my BP is normal and there's no squish, then 50 mg. HCTZ causes no peeing and no salty urine. If my weight is up overnight and my BP is high, the same pill will cause "brisk diuresis" in 2 hours and the stuff is salty as Hell (don't ask!:D)
Pal,
What do you think caused the burst of appetite with the Cozaar? Losartan or HCTZ? Did you perhaps pig out on the salty, greasy snacks to get at the salt?
Well then, keep it up. The single whisky has the added benefit of usually raising your HDL, something we all love.
It sounds like you might be the normal salt (aldosterone) as well as normal renin and thus probably not need htese meds at all.
I found that thiazide works GREAT GUNS when I am full of salt, and almost not at all when I am normo-saline :D:D. I can (and sometimes DO) TITRATE the stuff depending on the amount of squish. (Oh the doctors just LOVE to hear stuff like that.)
Since my first HCTZ prescription was in 1975, I've had a LOT of time to experiment.
It's absolutely classic: if my BP is normal and there's no squish, then 50 mg. HCTZ causes no peeing and no salty urine. If my weight is up overnight and my BP is high, the same pill will cause "brisk diuresis" in 2 hours and the stuff is salty as Hell (don't ask!:D)
Pal,
What do you think caused the burst of appetite with the Cozaar? Losartan or HCTZ? Did you perhaps pig out on the salty, greasy snacks to get at the salt?
mrmojo
02-22-2005, 03:27 PM
At this point I just want to get back to where I was before meds - I was generally 140 or so / low 90's, now I average 150/100, which i hope goes down some as it warms up & I shake this cold I've had since December
Of course if I could lose that last 20 lb Benicar HCTZ put on me I might get there
Of course if I could lose that last 20 lb Benicar HCTZ put on me I might get there
Lenin
02-22-2005, 03:33 PM
mojo,
So both you AND Pal fattened up on the ARB/HCTZ combo. How interesting. Why? Anyone got a guess?
So both you AND Pal fattened up on the ARB/HCTZ combo. How interesting. Why? Anyone got a guess?
Lenin
02-22-2005, 03:35 PM
mojo,
So both you AND Pal fattened up on the ARB/HCTZ combo. How interesting. Why? Anyone got a guess?
On the other hand, my weight control works best with neither also! Hmmm?
I hadn't noticed the fattening but I noticed the slimming with no drugs. I attributed it to the extra 20 points systolic (which takes LOTS of energy!)
So both you AND Pal fattened up on the ARB/HCTZ combo. How interesting. Why? Anyone got a guess?
On the other hand, my weight control works best with neither also! Hmmm?
I hadn't noticed the fattening but I noticed the slimming with no drugs. I attributed it to the extra 20 points systolic (which takes LOTS of energy!)
JIMP
02-22-2005, 05:11 PM
JIMP - as I have posted before - I was cooking my own food from scratch - there was basically no salt in it
my BP didnt go down during this diet, and it did spike up severely when i did have to eat something with salt in it when i was out & had to eat, usually i only ate out 1 time per week
some people react to salt, others dont, its not the same for everyone, this is a proven medical fact
in the couple of days you have been posting here, you sound like you are trying to sell something, you should do a little research before you post "THE CURE TO HIGH BP" as reducing salt is the great cure all for everyone, if it was that easy noone would have high BP
Mojo,
Believe me, I am selling absolutely nothing. What do I have to sell? A container of Morton salt? :D
Perhaps I should ask this question:
Can salt damage kidneys? And IF they are damaged what does one do to "undamage" them?
Obviously, something damaged will not work as good especially the kidneys.
And it IS the great cure for HBP. And it is not easy because noone likes to restrict what they do.
Habits are hard to break.
I mean , then how about you tell us the cure? More and more medication? What exactly?
my BP didnt go down during this diet, and it did spike up severely when i did have to eat something with salt in it when i was out & had to eat, usually i only ate out 1 time per week
some people react to salt, others dont, its not the same for everyone, this is a proven medical fact
in the couple of days you have been posting here, you sound like you are trying to sell something, you should do a little research before you post "THE CURE TO HIGH BP" as reducing salt is the great cure all for everyone, if it was that easy noone would have high BP
Mojo,
Believe me, I am selling absolutely nothing. What do I have to sell? A container of Morton salt? :D
Perhaps I should ask this question:
Can salt damage kidneys? And IF they are damaged what does one do to "undamage" them?
Obviously, something damaged will not work as good especially the kidneys.
And it IS the great cure for HBP. And it is not easy because noone likes to restrict what they do.
Habits are hard to break.
I mean , then how about you tell us the cure? More and more medication? What exactly?
jtu91952
02-22-2005, 05:15 PM
There is no one cure for everybody. I was told to limit salt, but when i do i don't notice any changes in my bp. Until most recently, my bp has been uncontrolled and all over the place.
Now since taking clonidine, my bp finally dropped to acceptable levels, which are usually 130/76. This is just my two cent.
Now since taking clonidine, my bp finally dropped to acceptable levels, which are usually 130/76. This is just my two cent.
JIMP
02-22-2005, 05:50 PM
There is no one cure for everybody. I was told to limit salt, but when i do i don't notice any changes in my bp. Until most recently, my bp has been uncontrolled and all over the place.
Now since taking clonidine, my bp finally dropped to acceptable levels, which are usually 130/76. This is just my two cent.
Salt has to be limited for a long time, not just a few days or weeks. It must be consistent and probably in conjunction with meds and BP has to be maintained at those lower levels of BP for quite some time in order for healing to take place.
The article I quoted from WebMd said that the constant pounding from HBP on the Kidney tubules damages them. Now this damage obviously affects all types of hypertensives whether they are A or V hypertensives.
I am glad that you got your BP under control. :)
I have just again started my low sodium life (keeping it around 400Mg.)again and in a few days have my BP down to 118/75 at night, and 123/75 in the morning. This afternoon it went up to 145/89 but I quickly brought it down with a measly 25Mg. of Cozaar within 30 minutes to 130/78.
My goal is to heal my kidneys. And the only way I know how (from my Doc)is to reduce the salt loads off of them for a few years.
Unless someone has another idea?
Now since taking clonidine, my bp finally dropped to acceptable levels, which are usually 130/76. This is just my two cent.
Salt has to be limited for a long time, not just a few days or weeks. It must be consistent and probably in conjunction with meds and BP has to be maintained at those lower levels of BP for quite some time in order for healing to take place.
The article I quoted from WebMd said that the constant pounding from HBP on the Kidney tubules damages them. Now this damage obviously affects all types of hypertensives whether they are A or V hypertensives.
I am glad that you got your BP under control. :)
I have just again started my low sodium life (keeping it around 400Mg.)again and in a few days have my BP down to 118/75 at night, and 123/75 in the morning. This afternoon it went up to 145/89 but I quickly brought it down with a measly 25Mg. of Cozaar within 30 minutes to 130/78.
My goal is to heal my kidneys. And the only way I know how (from my Doc)is to reduce the salt loads off of them for a few years.
Unless someone has another idea?
jtu91952
02-22-2005, 08:54 PM
JIM i have been on a low sodium diet for the last past six yrs. Im a diabetic and see five different type of doctors. I also work with a dietitian. She helps me alot with my meals and alos my meds. She is the most caring and knowledgeable healthcare professional i've ever dealt with. She also intervene for me with the drs with i complain about a med. She never dismiss my readings or discussions on this healthboard.
Im on a high fiber low fat diet. I eat six small meals each day. I've also lost over 65 pounds, all with her help and encouragement.
My only problem is this crazy bp and the bp meds. I want so badly to get off the diuretic. I HATE DIURETICS!!! they caused my cholesterol problems.
Im on a high fiber low fat diet. I eat six small meals each day. I've also lost over 65 pounds, all with her help and encouragement.
My only problem is this crazy bp and the bp meds. I want so badly to get off the diuretic. I HATE DIURETICS!!! they caused my cholesterol problems.
JIMP
02-22-2005, 09:08 PM
JIM i have been on a low sodium diet for the last past six yrs. Im a diabetic and see five different type of doctors. I also work with a dietitian. She helps me alot with my meals and alos my meds. She is the most caring and knowledgeable healthcare professional i've ever dealt with. She also intervene for me with the drs with i complain about a med. She never dismiss my readings or discussions on this healthboard.
Im on a high fiber low fat diet. I eat six small meals each day. I've also lost over 65 pounds, all with her help and encouragement.
My only problem is this crazy bp and the bp meds. I want so badly to get off the diuretic. I HATE DIURETICS!!! they caused my cholesterol problems.
Have you tried Cod Liver Oil?
I had some clincal studies on this and it has been proven to help lower blood pressure in 30 days.
CoQ10 was another right under Cod Liver oil. It should also help your skin and complexion. AND your cholesterol.
Garlic? Forget it. It was at the bottom of the list in clinical studies.
Your BP problems may be a bit more complicated as you are diabetic. That is the way my wife is BUT her BP dropped SIGNIFICANTLY with sodium reduction AND the additional fish oil. So this may be worth your try.
Im on a high fiber low fat diet. I eat six small meals each day. I've also lost over 65 pounds, all with her help and encouragement.
My only problem is this crazy bp and the bp meds. I want so badly to get off the diuretic. I HATE DIURETICS!!! they caused my cholesterol problems.
Have you tried Cod Liver Oil?
I had some clincal studies on this and it has been proven to help lower blood pressure in 30 days.
CoQ10 was another right under Cod Liver oil. It should also help your skin and complexion. AND your cholesterol.
Garlic? Forget it. It was at the bottom of the list in clinical studies.
Your BP problems may be a bit more complicated as you are diabetic. That is the way my wife is BUT her BP dropped SIGNIFICANTLY with sodium reduction AND the additional fish oil. So this may be worth your try.
jtu91952
02-23-2005, 06:22 AM
I just added fish oil back into my regimen.I was on Norvasc and was unable to continue exercising due to severe back pain. I am now on clonidine and have started back to exercising. I noticed my bp dropped back to 130/80 and that is where my gp wants it.
I also started the coQ10 and continue with the vit. e, vit. c and garlic. How long do you think it will take to see any positive results?
I also started the coQ10 and continue with the vit. e, vit. c and garlic. How long do you think it will take to see any positive results?
zuzu8
02-23-2005, 07:01 AM
JTU-
Not sure about how long before you see positive results w/coQ10 but just wanted to add how great it is that your BP is 130/80.... absolutely target-perfect for someone with diabetes.
zuzu xx
Not sure about how long before you see positive results w/coQ10 but just wanted to add how great it is that your BP is 130/80.... absolutely target-perfect for someone with diabetes.
zuzu xx
JIMP
02-23-2005, 07:38 PM
I just added fish oil back into my regimen.I was on Norvasc and was unable to continue exercising due to severe back pain. I am now on clonidine and have started back to exercising. I noticed my bp dropped back to 130/80 and that is where my gp wants it.
I also started the coQ10 and continue with the vit. e, vit. c and garlic. How long do you think it will take to see any positive results?
JTU, How severe is the back pain? Is it chronic? What is it caused by?
I have a very good solution for you if it is severe pain that you might like. And it is not meds.
Let me know!
I also started the coQ10 and continue with the vit. e, vit. c and garlic. How long do you think it will take to see any positive results?
JTU, How severe is the back pain? Is it chronic? What is it caused by?
I have a very good solution for you if it is severe pain that you might like. And it is not meds.
Let me know!
jtu91952
02-23-2005, 08:34 PM
Thank u JIM but the back pain is almost gone. It was a side effect of the norvasc i was taking. I went to my endo today and she confirmed that norvasc does and can cause severe lower back pain. I have been off the norvasc for a couple of weeks and the pain is almost gone. I am now back to exercising on my treadmill and walks outside.
Thank u for your kindness.
p.s. on another post i think you mention that hbp was due to kidney disorders. Well today i heard my endo talking to another dr about my kidneys. He told her to order a 24 hr urine test. i also overheard then talking about creatine and bun tests. Whe she came back into the room, i asked about those things and she dismissed me. They seem to think that is the reason for my bp spiking so much.
Thank u for your kindness.
p.s. on another post i think you mention that hbp was due to kidney disorders. Well today i heard my endo talking to another dr about my kidneys. He told her to order a 24 hr urine test. i also overheard then talking about creatine and bun tests. Whe she came back into the room, i asked about those things and she dismissed me. They seem to think that is the reason for my bp spiking so much.
JIMP
02-23-2005, 08:57 PM
Thank u JIM but the back pain is almost gone. It was a side effect of the norvasc i was taking. I went to my endo today and she confirmed that norvasc does and can cause severe lower back pain. I have been off the norvasc for a couple of weeks and the pain is almost gone. I am now back to exercising on my treadmill and walks outside.
Thank u for your kindness.
p.s. on another post i think you mention that hbp was due to kidney disorders. Well today i heard my endo talking to another dr about my kidneys. He told her to order a 24 hr urine test. i also overheard then talking about creatine and bun tests. Whe she came back into the room, i asked about those things and she dismissed me. They seem to think that is the reason for my bp spiking so much.
JTU,
You are quite welcome :)
Yes, my doctor feels that all HBP is kidney related. As HBP hammers the kidneys it damages them and they become less affective. Now, don't let this scare you as kidneys CAN and WILL heal over time with proper care.
If they become damaged they will not excrete sodium properly, thus BP rises.
This is why sodium restriction is so important and it has to be maintained as much as possible.
Now I realize that opinions can vary from doc to doc. But the question is ...What works?
Let them check your kidneys and let us all know how it goes :)
Sounds like your meds are working well. I hope it continues :) I also wanted to give you some of my own personal advice on HBP. IF, IF your blood pressure goes up very high during the day but ESPECIALLY at night you can bring it down 20-40 points VERY quickly.
How? Take a really hot shower, as hot as you can stand it for about 20-30 minutes and relax. Then just dress warm or go straight to bed. If you check it right after the shower you will see an amazing drop!!
If you go straight to bed and keep warm it should stay down for awhile. MAYBE all night!
I have also been told that jumping on a trampeline is one of the best methods of reducing BP. You can get a small one for your home. Probably inexpensive. This may be worth your effort as well.
Thank u for your kindness.
p.s. on another post i think you mention that hbp was due to kidney disorders. Well today i heard my endo talking to another dr about my kidneys. He told her to order a 24 hr urine test. i also overheard then talking about creatine and bun tests. Whe she came back into the room, i asked about those things and she dismissed me. They seem to think that is the reason for my bp spiking so much.
JTU,
You are quite welcome :)
Yes, my doctor feels that all HBP is kidney related. As HBP hammers the kidneys it damages them and they become less affective. Now, don't let this scare you as kidneys CAN and WILL heal over time with proper care.
If they become damaged they will not excrete sodium properly, thus BP rises.
This is why sodium restriction is so important and it has to be maintained as much as possible.
Now I realize that opinions can vary from doc to doc. But the question is ...What works?
Let them check your kidneys and let us all know how it goes :)
Sounds like your meds are working well. I hope it continues :) I also wanted to give you some of my own personal advice on HBP. IF, IF your blood pressure goes up very high during the day but ESPECIALLY at night you can bring it down 20-40 points VERY quickly.
How? Take a really hot shower, as hot as you can stand it for about 20-30 minutes and relax. Then just dress warm or go straight to bed. If you check it right after the shower you will see an amazing drop!!
If you go straight to bed and keep warm it should stay down for awhile. MAYBE all night!
I have also been told that jumping on a trampeline is one of the best methods of reducing BP. You can get a small one for your home. Probably inexpensive. This may be worth your effort as well.
Leslie12
02-23-2005, 11:56 PM
Hello there,
WOW I can't believe the responce to this question. I am impressed, thanks so much for the in put. Yesterday I saw my doctor, my BP is still very high 187/130 HR 160bpm. My chest feels weird when my BP is this high. I was surprised that they sent me home. When I do anything active my BP has been going up and staying up. If I don't do anything but lay around and do some light duty things, wash dishes, ironing I seem to be fine but who wants to live like that?? All my recent blood work was fine.
Please keep writing to me,
I am going to ask about some of the meds talked about here,
Leslie
WOW I can't believe the responce to this question. I am impressed, thanks so much for the in put. Yesterday I saw my doctor, my BP is still very high 187/130 HR 160bpm. My chest feels weird when my BP is this high. I was surprised that they sent me home. When I do anything active my BP has been going up and staying up. If I don't do anything but lay around and do some light duty things, wash dishes, ironing I seem to be fine but who wants to live like that?? All my recent blood work was fine.
Please keep writing to me,
I am going to ask about some of the meds talked about here,
Leslie
pal7778
02-24-2005, 05:29 AM
om coQ10, i take it and think it has a small but real effect on my BP, but i can't tell for sure. the word is that it also is great for heart function etc. but i've also said read it's
worthless for some or most people. what's the truth?
worthless for some or most people. what's the truth?
JIMP
02-24-2005, 09:43 AM
om coQ10, i take it and think it has a small but real effect on my BP, but i can't tell for sure. the word is that it also is great for heart function etc. but i've also said read it's
worthless for some or most people. what's the truth?
Pal,
First of all start with sodium reduction. Get serious about it as it will help heal the kidneys. Get it down, and get it low and hold it there the best you can. Under 500 Mg. is ideal.I know of no other way. If someone else knows then perhaps they can list it.
Secondly, fish oils are proven to lower blood pressure. We use a combination Fish, flax, and borage oil that you can get off the shelf at Walmart for about $5.00. it is the Rexall brand.
My wife has Diabetes, Thyroid and blood pressure problems. Her BP is 118/78 respectively. She takes Avapro, but to be honest she was in the HIGH NORMAL ranges until she added the fish oil. She has been on it for over a year. Clinial studies have shown 30 days for full affect. Make sure you take enough. Don't go by the label. You should be taking the equivalent of a 1teaspoon 3 times a day, or however you wish to take it. In other words 3-4 teaspoons per day would be fine. If it is in a capsule then you will have to figure that out.
I had some clinical studies on fish oils and Co-q10 and I cannot find them as hard as I look. If I recall the Co-Q10 after 30 days looked to dilate vessels around the heart area in the studies. Again, I wish I could provide the studies, I will keep looking. :)
worthless for some or most people. what's the truth?
Pal,
First of all start with sodium reduction. Get serious about it as it will help heal the kidneys. Get it down, and get it low and hold it there the best you can. Under 500 Mg. is ideal.I know of no other way. If someone else knows then perhaps they can list it.
Secondly, fish oils are proven to lower blood pressure. We use a combination Fish, flax, and borage oil that you can get off the shelf at Walmart for about $5.00. it is the Rexall brand.
My wife has Diabetes, Thyroid and blood pressure problems. Her BP is 118/78 respectively. She takes Avapro, but to be honest she was in the HIGH NORMAL ranges until she added the fish oil. She has been on it for over a year. Clinial studies have shown 30 days for full affect. Make sure you take enough. Don't go by the label. You should be taking the equivalent of a 1teaspoon 3 times a day, or however you wish to take it. In other words 3-4 teaspoons per day would be fine. If it is in a capsule then you will have to figure that out.
I had some clinical studies on fish oils and Co-q10 and I cannot find them as hard as I look. If I recall the Co-Q10 after 30 days looked to dilate vessels around the heart area in the studies. Again, I wish I could provide the studies, I will keep looking. :)
jtu91952
02-24-2005, 09:14 PM
Thanks JIM for all the info. In your post to lenin, you mentioned 5 grams of salt. How can i tell what 5 grams are, is it less than 2400mgs? I track my sodium intake and my potassium. Today it was 1873 mgs but i don't know how to convert to grams. I try not to go over 1100 mgs as my dietitian suggested.
JIMP
02-24-2005, 09:25 PM
Thanks JIM for all the info. In your post to lenin, you mentioned 5 grams of salt. How can i tell what 5 grams are, is it less than 2400mgs? I track my sodium intake and my potassium. Today it was 1873 mgs but i don't know how to convert to grams. I try not to go over 1100 mgs as my dietitian suggested.
Jtu,
1000Mgs=1 gram
2000Mgs.=2 Gram
3000Mgs.=3 Gram
4000Mgs.=4 grams
5000Mgs.=5 Gram
and so forth. Every 1000Mgs.=1 Gram
So 2400 Mgs is actually 2.4Grams so as you can see 5 Grams is much greater almost twice as much as 2.4 Grams.
1873 Mgs. of sodium would be a pinch under 1.9Grams .
If you are trying to keep sodium under 1100 Mgs. that is super. :) 1100Mgs would equal 1.1 Grams.
A very good start.
I know that you probably have to watch your fruit intake due to sugar but if your doc approves it the potassium rich foods help to expel sodium from the body.
This would be good to discuss with them.
How is the med doing today? Clonidine?
Jtu,
1000Mgs=1 gram
2000Mgs.=2 Gram
3000Mgs.=3 Gram
4000Mgs.=4 grams
5000Mgs.=5 Gram
and so forth. Every 1000Mgs.=1 Gram
So 2400 Mgs is actually 2.4Grams so as you can see 5 Grams is much greater almost twice as much as 2.4 Grams.
1873 Mgs. of sodium would be a pinch under 1.9Grams .
If you are trying to keep sodium under 1100 Mgs. that is super. :) 1100Mgs would equal 1.1 Grams.
A very good start.
I know that you probably have to watch your fruit intake due to sugar but if your doc approves it the potassium rich foods help to expel sodium from the body.
This would be good to discuss with them.
How is the med doing today? Clonidine?