princesspea
01-27-2005, 10:03 PM
Hi I decided to order a book ~ The Natural Medicine Guide to Bipolar Disorder.
Before I upset anybody I am not going off my meds! I just thought it would be a good suppliment and maybe I can lowwer my antid's. I have to say Hedge has inspired this move. I am not however doing it without my doc's advise. He's pretty open minded. We'll see!
I do have a question for you all. This is for me and some newbies here. What books have you read to help you understand your bipolar and how to handle it or just about bp in general?
Thanks for your responses.
Love,
Jamie
Before I upset anybody I am not going off my meds! I just thought it would be a good suppliment and maybe I can lowwer my antid's. I have to say Hedge has inspired this move. I am not however doing it without my doc's advise. He's pretty open minded. We'll see!
I do have a question for you all. This is for me and some newbies here. What books have you read to help you understand your bipolar and how to handle it or just about bp in general?
Thanks for your responses.
Love,
Jamie
Sponsor
weasel
01-27-2005, 10:48 PM
Hi! really, ive just read as much as i can online. its nice to get many many views instead of just one, especially since its not a black and white issue. there is so much gray area. there is a TON of reading about it on the web. good luck!
princesspea
01-28-2005, 11:39 AM
Weasel,
Thanks! I've been reading on the web for years. I am just couirous about books now. There are so many here now that seem to know what they are talking about I'm sure the knowledge came from some where. Thanks again.
Love,
Jamie
Thanks! I've been reading on the web for years. I am just couirous about books now. There are so many here now that seem to know what they are talking about I'm sure the knowledge came from some where. Thanks again.
Love,
Jamie
Rani*
01-29-2005, 08:14 PM
Jamie
My P-doc suggested a work book call "Living without depression & Manic depression"
by Mary Ellen Copeland. It's a workbook for Maintianing Mood Stability. I started
reading it then put it down and actually forgot I bought it until I seen your post.
What I did read was very helpful. Time to get back to it.
Im curious have you started reading the book you mention in your post. If so how
is it? I also do a lot of internet research where I found info on natural supplements
for bipolar. I started using them about 2 weeks ago and feel it's helped my depression.
I hope it lasts and Im not just in a hypomanic state.
Thanks for the posting, Rani
My P-doc suggested a work book call "Living without depression & Manic depression"
by Mary Ellen Copeland. It's a workbook for Maintianing Mood Stability. I started
reading it then put it down and actually forgot I bought it until I seen your post.
What I did read was very helpful. Time to get back to it.
Im curious have you started reading the book you mention in your post. If so how
is it? I also do a lot of internet research where I found info on natural supplements
for bipolar. I started using them about 2 weeks ago and feel it's helped my depression.
I hope it lasts and Im not just in a hypomanic state.
Thanks for the posting, Rani
princesspea
01-29-2005, 08:32 PM
Rani,
I just ordered the book and promise to keep you posted when I read it. It should be here any day now. I'm looking forward to it.
I will be ordering the book you talked about as soon as I'm done with this one.
What suppliments are you trying? I was in a research study involving Fish oil. I take that twice a day now. I would appriciate any and all suggestions.
Thanks!
Love,
Jamie
I just ordered the book and promise to keep you posted when I read it. It should be here any day now. I'm looking forward to it.
I will be ordering the book you talked about as soon as I'm done with this one.
What suppliments are you trying? I was in a research study involving Fish oil. I take that twice a day now. I would appriciate any and all suggestions.
Thanks!
Love,
Jamie
Rani*
01-29-2005, 09:56 PM
Hi Jamie
Im never sure what links I can list here so I just copied and pasted
a section. I kind of rushed this reply as Im making dinner so if you have
any questions post back. Rani
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mood-Stabilizing Compounds
Other than lithium, substances that may have mood-stabilizing effects include the following:
Phosphatidyl Choline (Lecithin)
A fairly convincing number of studies suggest that this substance has significant effects on the manic-depressive, with some claiming that it stabilizes moods while others suggesting that it serves as a mood depressant. It is probable that it actually has both actions (as does the prescription drug Depakote). For that reason, although lecithin may be useful in helping to stabilize moods, it should probably be used cautiously, with the patient starting at a fairly low dosage (perhaps 2 capsules of a 35% concentration of the substance per day) and then increasing gradually until moods are stabilized or mild depression is encountered. The recommended amount of this substance for this use seems to vary widely---some people suggest that relatively small amounts (perhaps 3-12 capsules per day) can be quite effective, while others suggest that only much greater amounts tend to be fully effective. (More concentrated forms of this substance are available but not usually stocked in health food stores.) Even if lecithin is only partially successful in reducing mood swings, however, this may still be helpful for those who want to reduce their dosages of prescription medications (for instance, because of side effects at higher amounts) or for those who suffer less severe mood swings. Most writers seem to recommend splitting up the dosages of lecithin over the course of the day (2-3 times per day), or taking the full dosage at night, although there do not seem to be any studies addressing this issue.
L-Taurine
Taurine is an amino acid that has been shown to have anti-convulsant qualities, and appears to be potentially helpful for both epileptics and those suffering from manic-depression (especially the rapid-cycling form). The usual recommended dosage seems to be 500-1000 mg, 1-3 times per day, although there seems to be no experimental or anecdotal evidence that larger dosages can cause any unwanted side effects. As with all amino acids, pharmaceutical quality product in capsules is preferable, despite the higher cost----capsules tend to be absorbed more easily, and lesser-quality forms may have the potential of being subject to contamination (such as that which occurred with tryptophan several years ago). Divided dosages are probably preferable.
GABA
GABA is usually classified as amino acid, although it actually serves as a neurotransmitter (there are more GABA sites in the brain than for any of the other neurotransmitters such as dopamine or serotonin). GABA basically serves as an inhibitory transmitter, keeping the brain and body from going into "overdrive." Currently, for instance, pharmaceutical companies are working on a GABA Reuptake Inhibitor that would artificially keep more GABA in the synapses of the brain (similar to what Prozac and related drugs do for serotonin) as a treatment for anxiety). Supplementation of GABA seems to be quite effective for anxiety disorders as well as insomnia (especially the type of insomnia where racing thoughts keep the individual from falling asleep). In addition, although there has been little if any research reported on this, there is also reason to believe that GABA may be effective in the treatment of manic-depression, since many of the substances that are currently used for this purpose (including Depakote and, obviously, gaba-pentin) affect GABA usage. Those who want to experiment with the usage of GABA for anxiety or manic-depression should start at a low dosage (perhaps 250 mg at bedtime or when anxiety occurs) and observe their reactions before taking a larger amount. This may be especially important for those people taking mood stabilizers that may affect GABA usage, since the interaction between the two may cause an undesirable overreaction to occur (just as those who are taking serotonin-based drugs such as Prozac should be careful about taking serotonin's precursor, tryptophan). Undesirable effects of too much GABA may include tingling or numbness in extremities or trunk of the body and shortness of breath; if this occurs, take a smaller amount in the future.
B Complex
The B vitamins are important factors in determining mood; deficiencies of any or all of these vitamins can produce significant symptoms relating to depression, anxiety, irritability, lethargy and fatigue. Many bipolars state that supplementation of B vitamins is extremely important to helping them to feel better. In general, B vitamins tend to work best together as a group; taking too much of any of them may result in deficiencies of others and, therefore, unwanted symptoms. B complex tends to be sold in B50 (50 mg of most of these vitamins, 50 mcg of a few, and 400 or 800 mcg of folic acid) or B100 (100 mg/mcg) dosages; bipolars may find relief with as little as 1 B50 or as many as 6 B100s per day. As with many other supplements, capsule form may be preferable although it is more expensive (some people say manic-depressives do not absorb this vitamin complex easily), and divided dosages also may be preferred. Although other factors (such as some medications) may interfere, a dark yellow-orange urine color may suggest that the individual is taking a sufficient quantity of this vitamin complex.
L-Tyrosine
L-tyrosine is an amino acid that serves as a precursor to the neurotransmitters norepinephrine and dopamine, which have been shown to be deficient in many manic-depressives during their depressed cycles. The supplementation of this amino acid may help the body to form more of these substances during these difficult times; in addition, it may be helpful in cases when clinical or subclinical thyroid disease is present. General recommendations are usually 500-5,000 mg per day, on an empty stomach in the morning or early afternoon (start at a low level and then work up gradually). As with all amino acids, try to get pharmaceutical grade product in capsules.
L-Phenylalynine and DL-Phenylalynine
Phenylalynine is a precursor to tyrosine, and so exhibits many of the same effects. In addition, the supplementation of phenylalynine can help the body to produce a substance called "phenylethylamine," which has been shown to be deficient in many manic-depressives. (Phenylethylamine is also present in chocolate and marijuana, and is created by the body in greater amounts when the individual is "in love"; conversely, a deficiency such as that suffered by many manic-depressives may lead to an unhappy feeling similar to that which "normal" people feel when they are heartbroken.) Phenylethylamine is supposedly present to a greater degree in the DL form of phenylalynine than the L form; however, the DL form may be more likely to increase blood pressure. (The issue of blood pressure increases is often cited as a problem for both the DL and L forms. This increase should be no more than 10 points for an hour or two after the substance is consumed; however, those people who are inclined toward high blood pressure should monitor theirs carefully and decrease or discontinue their use of this substance if a problem is observed.) The usual recommendation for the COMBINATION of tyrosine and phenylalynine (DL or L) is 500 to 5,000 mg per day, on an empty stomach in the morning or early afternoon. It is generally recommended that users start with a low dose and work up gradually.
Im never sure what links I can list here so I just copied and pasted
a section. I kind of rushed this reply as Im making dinner so if you have
any questions post back. Rani
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mood-Stabilizing Compounds
Other than lithium, substances that may have mood-stabilizing effects include the following:
Phosphatidyl Choline (Lecithin)
A fairly convincing number of studies suggest that this substance has significant effects on the manic-depressive, with some claiming that it stabilizes moods while others suggesting that it serves as a mood depressant. It is probable that it actually has both actions (as does the prescription drug Depakote). For that reason, although lecithin may be useful in helping to stabilize moods, it should probably be used cautiously, with the patient starting at a fairly low dosage (perhaps 2 capsules of a 35% concentration of the substance per day) and then increasing gradually until moods are stabilized or mild depression is encountered. The recommended amount of this substance for this use seems to vary widely---some people suggest that relatively small amounts (perhaps 3-12 capsules per day) can be quite effective, while others suggest that only much greater amounts tend to be fully effective. (More concentrated forms of this substance are available but not usually stocked in health food stores.) Even if lecithin is only partially successful in reducing mood swings, however, this may still be helpful for those who want to reduce their dosages of prescription medications (for instance, because of side effects at higher amounts) or for those who suffer less severe mood swings. Most writers seem to recommend splitting up the dosages of lecithin over the course of the day (2-3 times per day), or taking the full dosage at night, although there do not seem to be any studies addressing this issue.
L-Taurine
Taurine is an amino acid that has been shown to have anti-convulsant qualities, and appears to be potentially helpful for both epileptics and those suffering from manic-depression (especially the rapid-cycling form). The usual recommended dosage seems to be 500-1000 mg, 1-3 times per day, although there seems to be no experimental or anecdotal evidence that larger dosages can cause any unwanted side effects. As with all amino acids, pharmaceutical quality product in capsules is preferable, despite the higher cost----capsules tend to be absorbed more easily, and lesser-quality forms may have the potential of being subject to contamination (such as that which occurred with tryptophan several years ago). Divided dosages are probably preferable.
GABA
GABA is usually classified as amino acid, although it actually serves as a neurotransmitter (there are more GABA sites in the brain than for any of the other neurotransmitters such as dopamine or serotonin). GABA basically serves as an inhibitory transmitter, keeping the brain and body from going into "overdrive." Currently, for instance, pharmaceutical companies are working on a GABA Reuptake Inhibitor that would artificially keep more GABA in the synapses of the brain (similar to what Prozac and related drugs do for serotonin) as a treatment for anxiety). Supplementation of GABA seems to be quite effective for anxiety disorders as well as insomnia (especially the type of insomnia where racing thoughts keep the individual from falling asleep). In addition, although there has been little if any research reported on this, there is also reason to believe that GABA may be effective in the treatment of manic-depression, since many of the substances that are currently used for this purpose (including Depakote and, obviously, gaba-pentin) affect GABA usage. Those who want to experiment with the usage of GABA for anxiety or manic-depression should start at a low dosage (perhaps 250 mg at bedtime or when anxiety occurs) and observe their reactions before taking a larger amount. This may be especially important for those people taking mood stabilizers that may affect GABA usage, since the interaction between the two may cause an undesirable overreaction to occur (just as those who are taking serotonin-based drugs such as Prozac should be careful about taking serotonin's precursor, tryptophan). Undesirable effects of too much GABA may include tingling or numbness in extremities or trunk of the body and shortness of breath; if this occurs, take a smaller amount in the future.
B Complex
The B vitamins are important factors in determining mood; deficiencies of any or all of these vitamins can produce significant symptoms relating to depression, anxiety, irritability, lethargy and fatigue. Many bipolars state that supplementation of B vitamins is extremely important to helping them to feel better. In general, B vitamins tend to work best together as a group; taking too much of any of them may result in deficiencies of others and, therefore, unwanted symptoms. B complex tends to be sold in B50 (50 mg of most of these vitamins, 50 mcg of a few, and 400 or 800 mcg of folic acid) or B100 (100 mg/mcg) dosages; bipolars may find relief with as little as 1 B50 or as many as 6 B100s per day. As with many other supplements, capsule form may be preferable although it is more expensive (some people say manic-depressives do not absorb this vitamin complex easily), and divided dosages also may be preferred. Although other factors (such as some medications) may interfere, a dark yellow-orange urine color may suggest that the individual is taking a sufficient quantity of this vitamin complex.
L-Tyrosine
L-tyrosine is an amino acid that serves as a precursor to the neurotransmitters norepinephrine and dopamine, which have been shown to be deficient in many manic-depressives during their depressed cycles. The supplementation of this amino acid may help the body to form more of these substances during these difficult times; in addition, it may be helpful in cases when clinical or subclinical thyroid disease is present. General recommendations are usually 500-5,000 mg per day, on an empty stomach in the morning or early afternoon (start at a low level and then work up gradually). As with all amino acids, try to get pharmaceutical grade product in capsules.
L-Phenylalynine and DL-Phenylalynine
Phenylalynine is a precursor to tyrosine, and so exhibits many of the same effects. In addition, the supplementation of phenylalynine can help the body to produce a substance called "phenylethylamine," which has been shown to be deficient in many manic-depressives. (Phenylethylamine is also present in chocolate and marijuana, and is created by the body in greater amounts when the individual is "in love"; conversely, a deficiency such as that suffered by many manic-depressives may lead to an unhappy feeling similar to that which "normal" people feel when they are heartbroken.) Phenylethylamine is supposedly present to a greater degree in the DL form of phenylalynine than the L form; however, the DL form may be more likely to increase blood pressure. (The issue of blood pressure increases is often cited as a problem for both the DL and L forms. This increase should be no more than 10 points for an hour or two after the substance is consumed; however, those people who are inclined toward high blood pressure should monitor theirs carefully and decrease or discontinue their use of this substance if a problem is observed.) The usual recommendation for the COMBINATION of tyrosine and phenylalynine (DL or L) is 500 to 5,000 mg per day, on an empty stomach in the morning or early afternoon. It is generally recommended that users start with a low dose and work up gradually.
Ruth6:11
01-30-2005, 10:59 AM
I use these two:
'New Hope for People with Bipolar Disorder' - Fawcett, Golden & Rosenfeld
&
'Bipolar Disorder, A Guide for Patients and Families' - Mondimore
'New Hope for People with Bipolar Disorder' - Fawcett, Golden & Rosenfeld
&
'Bipolar Disorder, A Guide for Patients and Families' - Mondimore
ManiMe
01-30-2005, 11:28 AM
R1 (Rani) versus R2 (Ruth) -
Thanks for posting all that relatively natural stuff.
Regarding GABA (in particular), since so much of our neural pathway micro-construction revolves around that substance - you might be interested in noting a relatively cheap and excellent source of GABA.
POTATOS
That still doesn't explain the Fighting Irish.
Thanks for posting all that relatively natural stuff.
Regarding GABA (in particular), since so much of our neural pathway micro-construction revolves around that substance - you might be interested in noting a relatively cheap and excellent source of GABA.
POTATOS
That still doesn't explain the Fighting Irish.
Ruth6:11
01-30-2005, 01:39 PM
I live close enough to the Irish to watch the Goodyear Blimp hover overhead during games.
(There are times I wonder whether they even qualify as games anymore and I am the equivelent of a Chicago Cubs fan!)
I've read about the possibility that Bipolar is a result of a GABA issue in the neurotransmitters and sometimes wonder if I'll live long enough to see a real "cure" without all the side effects.
Anyone ever wonder what they do if a Bipolar who is stabilized on meds is unconscious?
Do they give IV lithium or let the mood swings go?
(There are times I wonder whether they even qualify as games anymore and I am the equivelent of a Chicago Cubs fan!)
I've read about the possibility that Bipolar is a result of a GABA issue in the neurotransmitters and sometimes wonder if I'll live long enough to see a real "cure" without all the side effects.
Anyone ever wonder what they do if a Bipolar who is stabilized on meds is unconscious?
Do they give IV lithium or let the mood swings go?
princesspea
01-30-2005, 04:47 PM
Rani,
Thanks so much for taking the time to post all that. I've read through it once and am going to print it out and take sometime studying it. You such a doll for going to so much trouble. Thanks again.
Love,
Jamie
Thanks so much for taking the time to post all that. I've read through it once and am going to print it out and take sometime studying it. You such a doll for going to so much trouble. Thanks again.
Love,
Jamie
princesspea
01-30-2005, 04:56 PM
Ruth,
Thanks for the book references. There are just so many out there you never know which one to buy. Since books ain't cheep I did want to just hit and miss my way through the list.
Now...LoL...LoL...LoL...I know it shouldn't be funny but, I was so tickled by your unconcious question. Who Knows? LoL...LoL...LoL I guess they let the mood swings roll because you're unconcious. That's a guess. You never know what they'll do if they can collect more money for your treatment!
I grew up in the Shadow of Beaver Stadium on Penn States Main campus. I kind of got a kick out of watching the blimp. As I've been to the home of the Irish I can now picture where you live!
Thanks for the reply.
Love,
Jamie
Thanks for the book references. There are just so many out there you never know which one to buy. Since books ain't cheep I did want to just hit and miss my way through the list.
Now...LoL...LoL...LoL...I know it shouldn't be funny but, I was so tickled by your unconcious question. Who Knows? LoL...LoL...LoL I guess they let the mood swings roll because you're unconcious. That's a guess. You never know what they'll do if they can collect more money for your treatment!
I grew up in the Shadow of Beaver Stadium on Penn States Main campus. I kind of got a kick out of watching the blimp. As I've been to the home of the Irish I can now picture where you live!
Thanks for the reply.
Love,
Jamie
Ruth6:11
01-30-2005, 06:01 PM
Hi Jamie,
I guess it honestly concerns me even if it may never happen.
I've read that if some people who have been stabilized on lithium go off of it then it never is quite as effective as it was the first time if they try to restart it.
Lithium is all that stands between me and sanity so I get a little squirrely about it (as you all have probably noticed!)
I guess it honestly concerns me even if it may never happen.
I've read that if some people who have been stabilized on lithium go off of it then it never is quite as effective as it was the first time if they try to restart it.
Lithium is all that stands between me and sanity so I get a little squirrely about it (as you all have probably noticed!)
princesspea
01-30-2005, 07:38 PM
Ruth,
You're not squirrely! It's a ligitimate fear! I'm sorry I laughed for some reason it just struck me as funny when you said "or let the mood swings go". I could just picture a coma patient with mood swing. It would probably scare the staff to death!
Do you have a medic alert bracelet or something that says your bp and need lithium? I case you can't talk and your husband isn't with you.
Love,
Jamie
You're not squirrely! It's a ligitimate fear! I'm sorry I laughed for some reason it just struck me as funny when you said "or let the mood swings go". I could just picture a coma patient with mood swing. It would probably scare the staff to death!
Do you have a medic alert bracelet or something that says your bp and need lithium? I case you can't talk and your husband isn't with you.
Love,
Jamie
Ruth6:11
01-30-2005, 08:12 PM
It IS kind of funny!
There we are, unconsicous or in a coma. So we can't run around manic & talk 200 miles a minute, and how is anyone to know!
Now that other question of yours shows where my level of comfort with stigma really is.
While I can choose to tell certain people, I would probably never have a medic alert bracelet, and don't even give blood because I don't feel like I should have to disclose the bipolar.
Isn't is awful what even a person who is educated about the disease can end up feeling?
I'm going on faith that my driver's license or cell phone or listing in the phone book would lead EMT or police to Mr. Ruth and the balance lithium has given me. Hope I'm right!!!
:angel:
There we are, unconsicous or in a coma. So we can't run around manic & talk 200 miles a minute, and how is anyone to know!
Now that other question of yours shows where my level of comfort with stigma really is.
While I can choose to tell certain people, I would probably never have a medic alert bracelet, and don't even give blood because I don't feel like I should have to disclose the bipolar.
Isn't is awful what even a person who is educated about the disease can end up feeling?
I'm going on faith that my driver's license or cell phone or listing in the phone book would lead EMT or police to Mr. Ruth and the balance lithium has given me. Hope I'm right!!!
:angel:
princesspea
01-31-2005, 12:34 AM
Ruth,
I never think about a cell phone! We have one but only buy minutes when we're going to be on the road between here and Texas. Some day we'll move into the 21st century :D
I also never thought about my drivers license. I am on record with DMV as being bipolar. I'll never do that again! I told them what meds I was on when they asked and one of them was flagged as a bipolar med. I have to have a form filled out by my doc every year before they will renew my License. Most people only have to renew every 5 years.
It's not awful. I used to be alot more opened about it but, as I'm ageing I'm learning it just none of some peoples business. All my docs know. I even told the gi doc when he was going to do my colonoscopy. I actually had to because two of my meds can cause excessive bleeding. Nothing like cumadimn(wafarin) (sp) but just enough to make my gums bleed when I get my teeth cleaned. I didn't want my gi taking any unnessesary biopsies. Call me chicken but I just thought it was a wise precaution.
Well I'll stop (finally ;) ).
Love,
Jamie
I never think about a cell phone! We have one but only buy minutes when we're going to be on the road between here and Texas. Some day we'll move into the 21st century :D
I also never thought about my drivers license. I am on record with DMV as being bipolar. I'll never do that again! I told them what meds I was on when they asked and one of them was flagged as a bipolar med. I have to have a form filled out by my doc every year before they will renew my License. Most people only have to renew every 5 years.
It's not awful. I used to be alot more opened about it but, as I'm ageing I'm learning it just none of some peoples business. All my docs know. I even told the gi doc when he was going to do my colonoscopy. I actually had to because two of my meds can cause excessive bleeding. Nothing like cumadimn(wafarin) (sp) but just enough to make my gums bleed when I get my teeth cleaned. I didn't want my gi taking any unnessesary biopsies. Call me chicken but I just thought it was a wise precaution.
Well I'll stop (finally ;) ).
Love,
Jamie
Ruth6:11
01-31-2005, 10:44 PM
Yep, I'm with you.
All of my doctor's know. I had a screening colonscopy too - shortly after my dad died of colon cancer. I never did tell my dentist, but hey - I have to draw the line somewhere!
In 30 years of working I'm only told one supervisor on a job about being bipolar. They were going to make me do two totally separate jobs at the same time and I knew the stress would kill me.
If I had to do it over again I probably wouldn't have mentioned it at all and would have changed jobs or flamed out in blaze of stress.
Stigma would be another good thread to start. I've only seen it mentioned here and there lately. And that includes when singles should tell someone they are starting a relationship etc.
Anyway, can't tell you how much I appreciate your input here!
:angel:
All of my doctor's know. I had a screening colonscopy too - shortly after my dad died of colon cancer. I never did tell my dentist, but hey - I have to draw the line somewhere!
In 30 years of working I'm only told one supervisor on a job about being bipolar. They were going to make me do two totally separate jobs at the same time and I knew the stress would kill me.
If I had to do it over again I probably wouldn't have mentioned it at all and would have changed jobs or flamed out in blaze of stress.
Stigma would be another good thread to start. I've only seen it mentioned here and there lately. And that includes when singles should tell someone they are starting a relationship etc.
Anyway, can't tell you how much I appreciate your input here!
:angel:

