kewlgirl
02-01-2005, 10:53 PM
Just curious if anyone out there has had any experience/suggestions with how to deal with being bi-polar and the law.
Situation:
My boyfriend was diagnosed as bi-polar his senior year of Pre-med and voluntarily checked himself into the hospital because he was yoyo'ing (emotionally) all the time and had classic symptoms.
He was in-patient for 5 days where they did a whole slew of tests and found nothing wrong. They finally decided he was mildly bi-polar and put him on meds and sent him home.
His family treated him like a freak show, thinking he was a mental case. This happened back in 1993. He lost most of his friends due to their ignorance of knowing what bi-polar is and they treated him differently because of it.
His doctors pretty much told him he would never be able to live a normal life, and they signed him up for SSD (social security disability, bi-polar does qualify) and he began living off SSD benefits. People criticized him for being on social security because at first glance, he's perfectly normal.
He's a self-employed in construction and highly intelligent (hence, he was just about to enter med. school when things came crashing down around him). The med. school discouraged him from continuing saying that him being bi-polar may get in the way of professional judgement as a physician....in other words the school pretty much rejected him, as did his family and friends.
He's had virtually no support throughout this whole ordeal. His family and friends and professional colleagues (med school) have labelled him as unstable because of the word bi-polar.
He quit his meds (not sure which ones he was on) because he was tired of being devoid of emotion that his meds caused. He has adjusted well and leads a 95% normal life. The only problem he really has to speak of is restlessness and difficulty sleeping.
He's trying to get off SSD, but because he's self-employed, most of what he does make is written off as business expenses and he doesn't work a full 8-hour day so according to the government it's not substantial income because he's not full time (according to their standards) and they are hindering him being on his own.
He was married and divorced in early 2000 and it didn't work out and they divorced. They have a 3-year-old daughter together and his ex-wife hired a lawyer and her lawyer held his bi-polar condition against him and he lost custody of his daughter because of being bi-polar. His parents have joint custody with his ex-wife and the only way he can see her is if he goes to his parents.
He's considering suing his ex-wife and her lawyer, and the state for civil rights violations. He basically raised her from when she was an infant and his ex-wife went to work, but now that they're divorced, she suddenly claims he's unfit (drama queen).
He has no history of violence and functions fine without meds. His ex-wife is on prozac and other psychological drugs and she has a tendancy to be violent yet she has full custody.
He's in the process of finding a mental-health lawyer to take his case. Finances aren't an issue so hopefully something moves in his favor.
Any suggestions/comments on similiar experiences with the law are appreciated. He wants his daughter back and is willing to take any feedback out there. :)
Situation:
My boyfriend was diagnosed as bi-polar his senior year of Pre-med and voluntarily checked himself into the hospital because he was yoyo'ing (emotionally) all the time and had classic symptoms.
He was in-patient for 5 days where they did a whole slew of tests and found nothing wrong. They finally decided he was mildly bi-polar and put him on meds and sent him home.
His family treated him like a freak show, thinking he was a mental case. This happened back in 1993. He lost most of his friends due to their ignorance of knowing what bi-polar is and they treated him differently because of it.
His doctors pretty much told him he would never be able to live a normal life, and they signed him up for SSD (social security disability, bi-polar does qualify) and he began living off SSD benefits. People criticized him for being on social security because at first glance, he's perfectly normal.
He's a self-employed in construction and highly intelligent (hence, he was just about to enter med. school when things came crashing down around him). The med. school discouraged him from continuing saying that him being bi-polar may get in the way of professional judgement as a physician....in other words the school pretty much rejected him, as did his family and friends.
He's had virtually no support throughout this whole ordeal. His family and friends and professional colleagues (med school) have labelled him as unstable because of the word bi-polar.
He quit his meds (not sure which ones he was on) because he was tired of being devoid of emotion that his meds caused. He has adjusted well and leads a 95% normal life. The only problem he really has to speak of is restlessness and difficulty sleeping.
He's trying to get off SSD, but because he's self-employed, most of what he does make is written off as business expenses and he doesn't work a full 8-hour day so according to the government it's not substantial income because he's not full time (according to their standards) and they are hindering him being on his own.
He was married and divorced in early 2000 and it didn't work out and they divorced. They have a 3-year-old daughter together and his ex-wife hired a lawyer and her lawyer held his bi-polar condition against him and he lost custody of his daughter because of being bi-polar. His parents have joint custody with his ex-wife and the only way he can see her is if he goes to his parents.
He's considering suing his ex-wife and her lawyer, and the state for civil rights violations. He basically raised her from when she was an infant and his ex-wife went to work, but now that they're divorced, she suddenly claims he's unfit (drama queen).
He has no history of violence and functions fine without meds. His ex-wife is on prozac and other psychological drugs and she has a tendancy to be violent yet she has full custody.
He's in the process of finding a mental-health lawyer to take his case. Finances aren't an issue so hopefully something moves in his favor.
Any suggestions/comments on similiar experiences with the law are appreciated. He wants his daughter back and is willing to take any feedback out there. :)
Sponsor
kiehn
02-02-2005, 04:30 AM
Are you in the U.S. because the state I live (WA) in they do everything to keep yo off
of SSD, out of the hospital and encourage you to work at any profession if you feel up to it go for it, they even offer vouchers for free retraining to get you back into the
job market.
He just might have ot retain a lawyer to fight his case. How sad his friends and family have treated him as they have. Of course a lot of families and friends dont understand do just that.
Being bipolar is not a crime nor are we by law required to tell anyone of our conditiion.
Has he thought of moving out of the area and getting a fresh start. Once he's stable in a job or self employement he can fight for custody of his daugher. I wish him
strength and success. K
of SSD, out of the hospital and encourage you to work at any profession if you feel up to it go for it, they even offer vouchers for free retraining to get you back into the
job market.
He just might have ot retain a lawyer to fight his case. How sad his friends and family have treated him as they have. Of course a lot of families and friends dont understand do just that.
Being bipolar is not a crime nor are we by law required to tell anyone of our conditiion.
Has he thought of moving out of the area and getting a fresh start. Once he's stable in a job or self employement he can fight for custody of his daugher. I wish him
strength and success. K
mudhound
02-02-2005, 07:41 AM
Just a short note here. I tend to see people in trouble with the law for petty reasons. I know very little about the justice system. However, There are avocates out there. Contact the state mental health dept and ask were to call to reach one. It could not hurt.
ManiMe
02-02-2005, 02:21 PM
kewl -
Thank you for a very profound thread. I can relate to very much of that.
Now, I'm beginning to think the lawyer I consulted (pre-consultation considering divorce action) might have been "blowing smoke" when he indicated that my Bi-Polar diagnosis would in no way effect custody issues.
Unfortunately, as others indicated, those familiar with your state laws and local "decisions" might need to be consulted. They usually have some idea how the local judges lean in terms of granting custody (in general, and specifically IF any similar cases have appeared).
In my area (county and state), the judges generally NEVER give majority custody to the male - unless the mother is majorly "whacked".
Eons of prejudicial conditioning.
I agree in total, that mothers have a much more tolerant bond with their offspring - but the financial inequities I've seen perpetrated here are quite disquieting (that's a separate issue) - it's as if those who are NOT dead-beat dads are forced to pay extra to make up for the others.
Your boyfriend has been through a lot. I can totally relate.
Best wishes ! :)
PS (afterthought) - My own psychotherapist was the one that sent me to consult an attorney - and said she'd vouch for me in court if/when the time comes. I still don't know what difference it will/would make. If your boyfriend has received ongoing counselling, at least it's a consideration (and one that the "opposition" might not have in its corner).
Thank you for a very profound thread. I can relate to very much of that.
Now, I'm beginning to think the lawyer I consulted (pre-consultation considering divorce action) might have been "blowing smoke" when he indicated that my Bi-Polar diagnosis would in no way effect custody issues.
Unfortunately, as others indicated, those familiar with your state laws and local "decisions" might need to be consulted. They usually have some idea how the local judges lean in terms of granting custody (in general, and specifically IF any similar cases have appeared).
In my area (county and state), the judges generally NEVER give majority custody to the male - unless the mother is majorly "whacked".
Eons of prejudicial conditioning.
I agree in total, that mothers have a much more tolerant bond with their offspring - but the financial inequities I've seen perpetrated here are quite disquieting (that's a separate issue) - it's as if those who are NOT dead-beat dads are forced to pay extra to make up for the others.
Your boyfriend has been through a lot. I can totally relate.
Best wishes ! :)
PS (afterthought) - My own psychotherapist was the one that sent me to consult an attorney - and said she'd vouch for me in court if/when the time comes. I still don't know what difference it will/would make. If your boyfriend has received ongoing counselling, at least it's a consideration (and one that the "opposition" might not have in its corner).
Jennita
02-02-2005, 03:30 PM
Just curious if anyone out there has had any experience/suggestions with how to deal with being bi-polar and the law.
Situation:
My boyfriend was diagnosed as bi-polar his senior year of Pre-med and voluntarily checked himself into the hospital because he was yoyo'ing (emotionally) all the time and had classic symptoms.
He was in-patient for 5 days where they did a whole slew of tests and found nothing wrong. They finally decided he was mildly bi-polar and put him on meds and sent him home.
His family treated him like a freak show, thinking he was a mental case. This happened back in 1993. He lost most of his friends due to their ignorance of knowing what bi-polar is and they treated him differently because of it.
His doctors pretty much told him he would never be able to live a normal life, and they signed him up for SSD (social security disability, bi-polar does qualify) and he began living off SSD benefits. People criticized him for being on social security because at first glance, he's perfectly normal.
He's a self-employed in construction and highly intelligent (hence, he was just about to enter med. school when things came crashing down around him). The med. school discouraged him from continuing saying that him being bi-polar may get in the way of professional judgement as a physician....in other words the school pretty much rejected him, as did his family and friends.
He's had virtually no support throughout this whole ordeal. His family and friends and professional colleagues (med school) have labelled him as unstable because of the word bi-polar.
He quit his meds (not sure which ones he was on) because he was tired of being devoid of emotion that his meds caused. He has adjusted well and leads a 95% normal life. The only problem he really has to speak of is restlessness and difficulty sleeping.
He's trying to get off SSD, but because he's self-employed, most of what he does make is written off as business expenses and he doesn't work a full 8-hour day so according to the government it's not substantial income because he's not full time (according to their standards) and they are hindering him being on his own.
He was married and divorced in early 2000 and it didn't work out and they divorced. They have a 3-year-old daughter together and his ex-wife hired a lawyer and her lawyer held his bi-polar condition against him and he lost custody of his daughter because of being bi-polar. His parents have joint custody with his ex-wife and the only way he can see her is if he goes to his parents.
He's considering suing his ex-wife and her lawyer, and the state for civil rights violations. He basically raised her from when she was an infant and his ex-wife went to work, but now that they're divorced, she suddenly claims he's unfit (drama queen).
He has no history of violence and functions fine without meds. His ex-wife is on prozac and other psychological drugs and she has a tendancy to be violent yet she has full custody.
He's in the process of finding a mental-health lawyer to take his case. Finances aren't an issue so hopefully something moves in his favor.
Any suggestions/comments on similiar experiences with the law are appreciated. He wants his daughter back and is willing to take any feedback out there. :)
If he functions fine without meds, couldn't he get a new diagnosis from another doc? Perhaps he is no longer bi-polar....sleep problems can be caused by other things so that's no confirmation of bi-polar so if that's all he has, he is probably just fine. THe brain can recover/change over time, he may not be bi-polar at all now!
A question as to whether or not he is bipolar anymore may prove to be in his favor if he can find a doc who wouldn't pre-judge because of his former mental health history and only evaluate him on his current condition.
Situation:
My boyfriend was diagnosed as bi-polar his senior year of Pre-med and voluntarily checked himself into the hospital because he was yoyo'ing (emotionally) all the time and had classic symptoms.
He was in-patient for 5 days where they did a whole slew of tests and found nothing wrong. They finally decided he was mildly bi-polar and put him on meds and sent him home.
His family treated him like a freak show, thinking he was a mental case. This happened back in 1993. He lost most of his friends due to their ignorance of knowing what bi-polar is and they treated him differently because of it.
His doctors pretty much told him he would never be able to live a normal life, and they signed him up for SSD (social security disability, bi-polar does qualify) and he began living off SSD benefits. People criticized him for being on social security because at first glance, he's perfectly normal.
He's a self-employed in construction and highly intelligent (hence, he was just about to enter med. school when things came crashing down around him). The med. school discouraged him from continuing saying that him being bi-polar may get in the way of professional judgement as a physician....in other words the school pretty much rejected him, as did his family and friends.
He's had virtually no support throughout this whole ordeal. His family and friends and professional colleagues (med school) have labelled him as unstable because of the word bi-polar.
He quit his meds (not sure which ones he was on) because he was tired of being devoid of emotion that his meds caused. He has adjusted well and leads a 95% normal life. The only problem he really has to speak of is restlessness and difficulty sleeping.
He's trying to get off SSD, but because he's self-employed, most of what he does make is written off as business expenses and he doesn't work a full 8-hour day so according to the government it's not substantial income because he's not full time (according to their standards) and they are hindering him being on his own.
He was married and divorced in early 2000 and it didn't work out and they divorced. They have a 3-year-old daughter together and his ex-wife hired a lawyer and her lawyer held his bi-polar condition against him and he lost custody of his daughter because of being bi-polar. His parents have joint custody with his ex-wife and the only way he can see her is if he goes to his parents.
He's considering suing his ex-wife and her lawyer, and the state for civil rights violations. He basically raised her from when she was an infant and his ex-wife went to work, but now that they're divorced, she suddenly claims he's unfit (drama queen).
He has no history of violence and functions fine without meds. His ex-wife is on prozac and other psychological drugs and she has a tendancy to be violent yet she has full custody.
He's in the process of finding a mental-health lawyer to take his case. Finances aren't an issue so hopefully something moves in his favor.
Any suggestions/comments on similiar experiences with the law are appreciated. He wants his daughter back and is willing to take any feedback out there. :)
If he functions fine without meds, couldn't he get a new diagnosis from another doc? Perhaps he is no longer bi-polar....sleep problems can be caused by other things so that's no confirmation of bi-polar so if that's all he has, he is probably just fine. THe brain can recover/change over time, he may not be bi-polar at all now!
A question as to whether or not he is bipolar anymore may prove to be in his favor if he can find a doc who wouldn't pre-judge because of his former mental health history and only evaluate him on his current condition.
princesspea
02-02-2005, 05:21 PM
kewlgirl,
It's difficult to get on SSDI with just a dx. I got mine based on my hospital stays(they required documentation from the hospitals), work history, forms from my doctor and an interview with their doctor. I don't know what state your in but, I've never heard of it being that easy and I belong to a SSDI borad too. You should also be able to get off of it! Last year they started a program to help you get back to work and they sent EVERYBODY information on it. I can't remember what the program is called but, I'm sure the info is available to those who want it.
I'm sorry everyone is treating your bf so badly. Ignorance runs deep!!!!
I agree that an advocate and lawyer are problably the way to go. I'd start by reviewing ALL the court papers.
Sorry this isn't much help!
Love,
Jamie
It's difficult to get on SSDI with just a dx. I got mine based on my hospital stays(they required documentation from the hospitals), work history, forms from my doctor and an interview with their doctor. I don't know what state your in but, I've never heard of it being that easy and I belong to a SSDI borad too. You should also be able to get off of it! Last year they started a program to help you get back to work and they sent EVERYBODY information on it. I can't remember what the program is called but, I'm sure the info is available to those who want it.
I'm sorry everyone is treating your bf so badly. Ignorance runs deep!!!!
I agree that an advocate and lawyer are problably the way to go. I'd start by reviewing ALL the court papers.
Sorry this isn't much help!
Love,
Jamie
kiehn
02-02-2005, 05:59 PM
If he functions fine without meds, couldn't he get a new diagnosis from another doc? Perhaps he is no longer bi-polar....sleep problems can be caused by other things so that's no confirmation of bi-polar so if that's all he has, he is probably just fine. THe brain can recover/change over time, he may not be bi-polar at all now!
A question as to whether or not he is bipolar anymore may prove to be in his favor if he can find a doc who wouldn't pre-judge because of his former mental health history and only evaluate him on his current condition.
EXCELLENT IDEA!!! K
A question as to whether or not he is bipolar anymore may prove to be in his favor if he can find a doc who wouldn't pre-judge because of his former mental health history and only evaluate him on his current condition.
EXCELLENT IDEA!!! K
Jennita
02-03-2005, 02:50 AM
EXCELLENT IDEA!!! K
Thanks! I don't know if he could find a good, unjudgemental doctor but I imagine if he could, his ex wouldn't have a leg to stand on now, would she?
It really burns me when someone is treated so unfairly, especially where children are concerned, it's heartbreaking!
I hope he can get his daughter back...
Thanks! I don't know if he could find a good, unjudgemental doctor but I imagine if he could, his ex wouldn't have a leg to stand on now, would she?
It really burns me when someone is treated so unfairly, especially where children are concerned, it's heartbreaking!
I hope he can get his daughter back...
ManiMe
02-03-2005, 08:21 AM
Concerning a reversing diagnosis ~
There's a degree of what could be called "professional courtesy" out there. Since a diagnosis is such a judgement call any way - it would shed doubt on the legitimacy of such "things" if psychiatrists went around discounting each others' diagnoses.
I wouldn't hold my breath.
They might modify and change the DSM-IV descriptors ~ but overall you're not likely to get anyone to claim you're "cured", as by definition IT AIN'T POSSIBLE (if indeed it's a physical and genetically wired condition). At the very most they'd probably claim you've stabilized and just haven't experienced a notable departure for quite some time.
Personally - my own wife had attended a session in which my original diagnosing Pdoc said he was now considering if indeed I might NOT be Bi-Polar after all (as in, perhaps major triggering events had just resulted in quasi-normal reactions). One factor was that ALL medication attempts seemed to have about the opposite of the intended effects. Well - when I brought it up at our next session - he denied he'd ever said those words - and used my statement as further proof of delusional thinking !!!!!! My wife was shocked. I wasn't. Never trust a fool with power. In general, I tend not to trust. We still don't have an objective test for "fools", either.
I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but I don't think that's the path to success. Also - if you vaporize your already approved SSDI status - and THEN have an "event" - you'll probably have to start all over again with the frustration of the approval process.
I'd tread softly.
PS ~ (in edit) ~ 31 years ago, I fought a battle for a female friend. An OB-GYN head of department totally "blew" his diagnosis of her and her status. I absolutely KNEW he was wrong. He treated us both like ignoramuses. I went over his head to the Director of the Hospital, who finally agreed to examine her himself (as he'd been an OB man) and I had threatened to take it to higher levels (as I had worked on a certain Senator's campaign). It turned out that I was right and the first doc was wrong. BUT, to save face, the Director agreed NOT to reverse the original diagnosis - but rather modify it only slightly so that decorum could be maintained. That's what you're up against.
There's a degree of what could be called "professional courtesy" out there. Since a diagnosis is such a judgement call any way - it would shed doubt on the legitimacy of such "things" if psychiatrists went around discounting each others' diagnoses.
I wouldn't hold my breath.
They might modify and change the DSM-IV descriptors ~ but overall you're not likely to get anyone to claim you're "cured", as by definition IT AIN'T POSSIBLE (if indeed it's a physical and genetically wired condition). At the very most they'd probably claim you've stabilized and just haven't experienced a notable departure for quite some time.
Personally - my own wife had attended a session in which my original diagnosing Pdoc said he was now considering if indeed I might NOT be Bi-Polar after all (as in, perhaps major triggering events had just resulted in quasi-normal reactions). One factor was that ALL medication attempts seemed to have about the opposite of the intended effects. Well - when I brought it up at our next session - he denied he'd ever said those words - and used my statement as further proof of delusional thinking !!!!!! My wife was shocked. I wasn't. Never trust a fool with power. In general, I tend not to trust. We still don't have an objective test for "fools", either.
I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but I don't think that's the path to success. Also - if you vaporize your already approved SSDI status - and THEN have an "event" - you'll probably have to start all over again with the frustration of the approval process.
I'd tread softly.
PS ~ (in edit) ~ 31 years ago, I fought a battle for a female friend. An OB-GYN head of department totally "blew" his diagnosis of her and her status. I absolutely KNEW he was wrong. He treated us both like ignoramuses. I went over his head to the Director of the Hospital, who finally agreed to examine her himself (as he'd been an OB man) and I had threatened to take it to higher levels (as I had worked on a certain Senator's campaign). It turned out that I was right and the first doc was wrong. BUT, to save face, the Director agreed NOT to reverse the original diagnosis - but rather modify it only slightly so that decorum could be maintained. That's what you're up against.
kewlgirl
02-03-2005, 10:50 AM
kewlgirl,
It's difficult to get on SSDI with just a dx. I got mine based on my hospital stays(they required documentation from the hospitals), work history, forms from my doctor and an interview with their doctor. I don't know what state your in but, I've never heard of it being that easy and I belong to a SSDI borad too. You should also be able to get off of it! Last year they started a program to help you get back to work and they sent EVERYBODY information on it. I can't remember what the program is called but, I'm sure the info is available to those who want it.
I'm sorry everyone is treating your bf so badly. Ignorance runs deep!!!!
I agree that an advocate and lawyer are problably the way to go. I'd start by reviewing ALL the court papers.
Sorry this isn't much help!
Love,
Jamie
Thanks for your response. I live in Minneapolis. From what I gather, my boyfriend's doctor was over-zealous and insisted he was worse than he really was.
I have had similar experiences with over-zealous, opinionated doctors. When I was 16 I was in a car wreck and it shook me up emotionally. I went in to get help sleeping and the person I saw sat there and told me I had issues because I was 16 and into school activities and did not have a serious relationship or boyfriend in my life. I was deeply offended. He also told my mother that I would have serious issues finding a boyfriend/husband later in life because of my views of relationships at 16.
To be honest, no 16 year old I know is ready to be in a serious relationship let alone view a relationship the same way as an adult. To date I have had no trouble dating or retaining a solid relationship, so he was wrong!
He even told my parents that before he could "close" my case he had to diagnose me with something. Why do doctors have to INSIST you have something wrong with you all the time? He eventually labelled me with PTSS -Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. The whole experience turned me off to psychology and their tactics. They are so quick to label you as something without even knowing you that can affect your self-esteem.
In another instance I had a bad intestinal infection and was in a lot of pain. I went to a general doctor asking for help (literally in tears because it hurt so bad). Because I was crying he insisted I be tested for depression and go talk to a mental counselor. I was so livid! He sent me home still in pain. I talked to my mother (who also works in the medical community) and she took me to a better doctor and they took an abdominal x-ray, found the problem and fixed it, without once insisting I was depressed. I wrote a letter to the hospital and refused to pay the co-pay from that visit.
I guess my point here is that I believe my boyfriend's doctor (and a lot of doctor's I've had) are over-zealous.....his doctor signed him up for SSD full-well believing he is/was a lot worse off than he really is. He has gone in to the SS office here (it's similar to downtown Chicago or NY).......it's very ghetto and you have to get patted down to get in the door.....and the people there treat my boyfriend like he's a cripple and there is a huge lack of respect there (I've gone for his yearly interview).
At any rate he's still fighting and will hopefully get something in his favor.
It's difficult to get on SSDI with just a dx. I got mine based on my hospital stays(they required documentation from the hospitals), work history, forms from my doctor and an interview with their doctor. I don't know what state your in but, I've never heard of it being that easy and I belong to a SSDI borad too. You should also be able to get off of it! Last year they started a program to help you get back to work and they sent EVERYBODY information on it. I can't remember what the program is called but, I'm sure the info is available to those who want it.
I'm sorry everyone is treating your bf so badly. Ignorance runs deep!!!!
I agree that an advocate and lawyer are problably the way to go. I'd start by reviewing ALL the court papers.
Sorry this isn't much help!
Love,
Jamie
Thanks for your response. I live in Minneapolis. From what I gather, my boyfriend's doctor was over-zealous and insisted he was worse than he really was.
I have had similar experiences with over-zealous, opinionated doctors. When I was 16 I was in a car wreck and it shook me up emotionally. I went in to get help sleeping and the person I saw sat there and told me I had issues because I was 16 and into school activities and did not have a serious relationship or boyfriend in my life. I was deeply offended. He also told my mother that I would have serious issues finding a boyfriend/husband later in life because of my views of relationships at 16.
To be honest, no 16 year old I know is ready to be in a serious relationship let alone view a relationship the same way as an adult. To date I have had no trouble dating or retaining a solid relationship, so he was wrong!
He even told my parents that before he could "close" my case he had to diagnose me with something. Why do doctors have to INSIST you have something wrong with you all the time? He eventually labelled me with PTSS -Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. The whole experience turned me off to psychology and their tactics. They are so quick to label you as something without even knowing you that can affect your self-esteem.
In another instance I had a bad intestinal infection and was in a lot of pain. I went to a general doctor asking for help (literally in tears because it hurt so bad). Because I was crying he insisted I be tested for depression and go talk to a mental counselor. I was so livid! He sent me home still in pain. I talked to my mother (who also works in the medical community) and she took me to a better doctor and they took an abdominal x-ray, found the problem and fixed it, without once insisting I was depressed. I wrote a letter to the hospital and refused to pay the co-pay from that visit.
I guess my point here is that I believe my boyfriend's doctor (and a lot of doctor's I've had) are over-zealous.....his doctor signed him up for SSD full-well believing he is/was a lot worse off than he really is. He has gone in to the SS office here (it's similar to downtown Chicago or NY).......it's very ghetto and you have to get patted down to get in the door.....and the people there treat my boyfriend like he's a cripple and there is a huge lack of respect there (I've gone for his yearly interview).
At any rate he's still fighting and will hopefully get something in his favor.
Jennita
02-03-2005, 02:11 PM
Concerning a reversing diagnosis ~
There's a degree of what could be called "professional courtesy" out there. Since a diagnosis is such a judgement call any way - it would shed doubt on the legitimacy of such "things" if psychiatrists went around discounting each others' diagnoses.
I wouldn't hold my breath.
They might modify and change the DSM-IV descriptors ~ but overall you're not likely to get anyone to claim you're "cured", as by definition IT AIN'T POSSIBLE (if indeed it's a physical and genetically wired condition). At the very most they'd probably claim you've stabilized and just haven't experienced a notable departure for quite some time.
Personally - my own wife had attended a session in which my original diagnosing Pdoc said he was now considering if indeed I might NOT be Bi-Polar after all (as in, perhaps major triggering events had just resulted in quasi-normal reactions). One factor was that ALL medication attempts seemed to have about the opposite of the intended effects. Well - when I brought it up at our next session - he denied he'd ever said those words - and used my statement as further proof of delusional thinking !!!!!! My wife was shocked. I wasn't. Never trust a fool with power. In general, I tend not to trust. We still don't have an objective test for "fools", either.
I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but I don't think that's the path to success. Also - if you vaporize your already approved SSDI status - and THEN have an "event" - you'll probably have to start all over again with the frustration of the approval process.
I'd tread softly.
PS ~ (in edit) ~ 31 years ago, I fought a battle for a female friend. An OB-GYN head of department totally "blew" his diagnosis of her and her status. I absolutely KNEW he was wrong. He treated us both like ignoramuses. I went over his head to the Director of the Hospital, who finally agreed to examine her himself (as he'd been an OB man) and I had threatened to take it to higher levels (as I had worked on a certain Senator's campaign). It turned out that I was right and the first doc was wrong. BUT, to save face, the Director agreed NOT to reverse the original diagnosis - but rather modify it only slightly so that decorum could be maintained. That's what you're up against.
If this is the case, I guess deception is in order here! I don't know how kewlgirls' boyfriend feels about that, but I'm sure not above it....hey when you get to be 47 and people have screwed you over, you get over such things as honesty...well, I'm not an outright lying sort but I'd lie if it meant getting my child back for sure!
Do you suppose her boyfriend could go to a brand new doctor and NOT disclose to him his former psychiatric history? I mean, he could say he's been a little stressed and would like to have a check-up to make sure he is ok or maybe just thought he needed some advice?
I mean, lots of mildly depressed or mildly stressed people go seek counseling! So that wouldn't be too hard to sell.
Perhaps he can get a doc who will just diagnois him with only stress (that would be easy/logical since sleeping problems are usually considered stress-related) or even just mild depression....these two things are a world apart from the notorious bi-polar label.
Now, as I understand it, if the boyfriend were to give NO past doctor references, the new doc could not find out about his past because a patient must sign for release of their medical records to a second party, right? So the new doc would have no access to them.
He should go to a psychiatrist though because I know psychologists are not medical and maybe wouldn't have the same clot with a diagnosis.
I would think once he got a new, " better" diagnosis like mild stress or depression, that could also help him. Bipolar is considered more dangerous a problem whereas almost everyone these days has stress and depression so really, nobody really would consider that on the same level as bi-polar....according to kewgirl, even his ex has been diagnoised with either anxiety or depression... ..obviously, since she's on Prozac!
Seems the law doesn't consider her much of a problem, right?
I'd go for it if I was him; he'd be no worse off if it didn't work......this is war.....
There's a degree of what could be called "professional courtesy" out there. Since a diagnosis is such a judgement call any way - it would shed doubt on the legitimacy of such "things" if psychiatrists went around discounting each others' diagnoses.
I wouldn't hold my breath.
They might modify and change the DSM-IV descriptors ~ but overall you're not likely to get anyone to claim you're "cured", as by definition IT AIN'T POSSIBLE (if indeed it's a physical and genetically wired condition). At the very most they'd probably claim you've stabilized and just haven't experienced a notable departure for quite some time.
Personally - my own wife had attended a session in which my original diagnosing Pdoc said he was now considering if indeed I might NOT be Bi-Polar after all (as in, perhaps major triggering events had just resulted in quasi-normal reactions). One factor was that ALL medication attempts seemed to have about the opposite of the intended effects. Well - when I brought it up at our next session - he denied he'd ever said those words - and used my statement as further proof of delusional thinking !!!!!! My wife was shocked. I wasn't. Never trust a fool with power. In general, I tend not to trust. We still don't have an objective test for "fools", either.
I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but I don't think that's the path to success. Also - if you vaporize your already approved SSDI status - and THEN have an "event" - you'll probably have to start all over again with the frustration of the approval process.
I'd tread softly.
PS ~ (in edit) ~ 31 years ago, I fought a battle for a female friend. An OB-GYN head of department totally "blew" his diagnosis of her and her status. I absolutely KNEW he was wrong. He treated us both like ignoramuses. I went over his head to the Director of the Hospital, who finally agreed to examine her himself (as he'd been an OB man) and I had threatened to take it to higher levels (as I had worked on a certain Senator's campaign). It turned out that I was right and the first doc was wrong. BUT, to save face, the Director agreed NOT to reverse the original diagnosis - but rather modify it only slightly so that decorum could be maintained. That's what you're up against.
If this is the case, I guess deception is in order here! I don't know how kewlgirls' boyfriend feels about that, but I'm sure not above it....hey when you get to be 47 and people have screwed you over, you get over such things as honesty...well, I'm not an outright lying sort but I'd lie if it meant getting my child back for sure!
Do you suppose her boyfriend could go to a brand new doctor and NOT disclose to him his former psychiatric history? I mean, he could say he's been a little stressed and would like to have a check-up to make sure he is ok or maybe just thought he needed some advice?
I mean, lots of mildly depressed or mildly stressed people go seek counseling! So that wouldn't be too hard to sell.
Perhaps he can get a doc who will just diagnois him with only stress (that would be easy/logical since sleeping problems are usually considered stress-related) or even just mild depression....these two things are a world apart from the notorious bi-polar label.
Now, as I understand it, if the boyfriend were to give NO past doctor references, the new doc could not find out about his past because a patient must sign for release of their medical records to a second party, right? So the new doc would have no access to them.
He should go to a psychiatrist though because I know psychologists are not medical and maybe wouldn't have the same clot with a diagnosis.
I would think once he got a new, " better" diagnosis like mild stress or depression, that could also help him. Bipolar is considered more dangerous a problem whereas almost everyone these days has stress and depression so really, nobody really would consider that on the same level as bi-polar....according to kewgirl, even his ex has been diagnoised with either anxiety or depression... ..obviously, since she's on Prozac!
Seems the law doesn't consider her much of a problem, right?
I'd go for it if I was him; he'd be no worse off if it didn't work......this is war.....
Jennita
02-03-2005, 02:25 PM
Oh yeah, Manime, speaking of female problems....when I was withdrawing from benzodiazepines prescribed by a doctor who had no business giving them to me in the first place and this led to tolerance, guess what I also got a wrong diagnosis of peri-menopause. Sure, I'm the right age but my periods are like clockwork and I really don't even get PMS! The doctor insisted I was in it after a hormone test (he wasn't a GYN but said his wife was)....when I went to another doc, a GYN, I was told my hormone levels were just fine!
This was 4 years ago and my periods are still completely normal. From what I've read, irregular periods are the hallmark sign of menopause or peri- menopause.
Second opinions are always a good thing plus common sense, as I realized I needed to have some of the symptoms of peri-menopause to actually be in it. Turns out my woes were withdrawals from benzos related after all, the symptoms were classic of benzo withdrawal (insomnia, anxiety and more) but the docs I had at the time (sleep doc, regular doc, psychiatrist) wouldn't listen.
So guess what? I dropped them all flat, yes, I imagine they have no clue. Went through my own withdrawals and recovered, and they haven't heard from me since. And I dumped the estrogen that one doctor gave me in the toilet.
Wish I could have dumped the doc in there with them. :D
This was 4 years ago and my periods are still completely normal. From what I've read, irregular periods are the hallmark sign of menopause or peri- menopause.
Second opinions are always a good thing plus common sense, as I realized I needed to have some of the symptoms of peri-menopause to actually be in it. Turns out my woes were withdrawals from benzos related after all, the symptoms were classic of benzo withdrawal (insomnia, anxiety and more) but the docs I had at the time (sleep doc, regular doc, psychiatrist) wouldn't listen.
So guess what? I dropped them all flat, yes, I imagine they have no clue. Went through my own withdrawals and recovered, and they haven't heard from me since. And I dumped the estrogen that one doctor gave me in the toilet.
Wish I could have dumped the doc in there with them. :D
Jennita
02-03-2005, 02:40 PM
Thanks for your response. I live in Minneapolis. From what I gather, my boyfriend's doctor was over-zealous and insisted he was worse than he really was.
I have had similar experiences with over-zealous, opinionated doctors. When I was 16 I was in a car wreck and it shook me up emotionally. I went in to get help sleeping and the person I saw sat there and told me I had issues because I was 16 and into school activities and did not have a serious relationship or boyfriend in my life. I was deeply offended. He also told my mother that I would have serious issues finding a boyfriend/husband later in life because of my views of relationships at 16.
To be honest, no 16 year old I know is ready to be in a serious relationship let alone view a relationship the same way as an adult. To date I have had no trouble dating or retaining a solid relationship, so he was wrong!
He even told my parents that before he could "close" my case he had to diagnose me with something. Why do doctors have to INSIST you have something wrong with you all the time? He eventually labelled me with PTSS -Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. The whole experience turned me off to psychology and their tactics. They are so quick to label you as something without even knowing you that can affect your self-esteem.
In another instance I had a bad intestinal infection and was in a lot of pain. I went to a general doctor asking for help (literally in tears because it hurt so bad). Because I was crying he insisted I be tested for depression and go talk to a mental counselor. I was so livid! He sent me home still in pain. I talked to my mother (who also works in the medical community) and she took me to a better doctor and they took an abdominal x-ray, found the problem and fixed it, without once insisting I was depressed. I wrote a letter to the hospital and refused to pay the co-pay from that visit.
I guess my point here is that I believe my boyfriend's doctor (and a lot of doctor's I've had) are over-zealous.....his doctor signed him up for SSD full-well believing he is/was a lot worse off than he really is. He has gone in to the SS office here (it's similar to downtown Chicago or NY).......it's very ghetto and you have to get patted down to get in the door.....and the people there treat my boyfriend like he's a cripple and there is a huge lack of respect there (I've gone for his yearly interview).
At any rate he's still fighting and will hopefully get something in his favor.
Hey, this is just my personal opinion but I think psychiatry is 95% complete dog snot theory with no real medical backup. I think there is a small percentage of truly mentally ill people, but these days anyone who is shy or has a tough time is considered ill and needing "medication". Sure, if a person feels rotten and chooses to take a prescription pill, that's fine (although I believe pills are unhealthy and dangerous for some) but it's the labeling that goes with that which burns my be-hind.
My nephew got diagnoised with ADD, poor kid, he's so smart and sensitive. The meds caused some side effects, and luckily his dad decided to consider taking him off for his health's sake. The med even changed his sweet nature into a defiant one. Now he's back to his old self, and it seems a new school year and new teacher really changed everything. But I know how these ADD kids are teased because of these psychiatric labels.
Now really, any intelligent person knows that "shyness" is not a serious medical condition or brain imbalance yet they claim this on Zoloft commercials....what a subliminal scare tactic, how clever but it burns me to think most people will believe it.
I remember the first PMDD commercials with the woman struggling with a shopping cart....man, how sad is that. :rolleyes: THen others with the husbands talking about the wife....yeah, I'd like to see my husband on that commercial, he wouldn't dare....
As far as the relationship/boyfriend thing goes at 16, boy, what a moron that doctor was! What, should you be married by 19 or 20 too? Maybe pregnant at 17? Is this guy for real? How about enjoying finding yourself and what you want to do in life first before bringing another into it?
Take it from someone who dated and married early, it's a big mistake! But wait, I don't want to be as judgemental about it as your doctor, who by the way, a medical degree does not make one an expert in matters of the heart, that's individual and we must find our own way there. So I take back the "mistake" comment, as no doubt some high school sweethearts are still happily married years later.
But waiting for the right person isn't a crime now, my own daughter wanted to wait intil she found someone worth her time, so she's just now gotten her first boyfriend at age 22! Believe me, quality is more important than quantity and this guy has quality, he apparentely was in love with her for years before she noticed, he treats her so well and he's entering now to study becoming a fireman...an American hero.... I think she's made a good choice for a boyfriend.......I wonder what she would have dragged home at 16????? :eek:
I have had similar experiences with over-zealous, opinionated doctors. When I was 16 I was in a car wreck and it shook me up emotionally. I went in to get help sleeping and the person I saw sat there and told me I had issues because I was 16 and into school activities and did not have a serious relationship or boyfriend in my life. I was deeply offended. He also told my mother that I would have serious issues finding a boyfriend/husband later in life because of my views of relationships at 16.
To be honest, no 16 year old I know is ready to be in a serious relationship let alone view a relationship the same way as an adult. To date I have had no trouble dating or retaining a solid relationship, so he was wrong!
He even told my parents that before he could "close" my case he had to diagnose me with something. Why do doctors have to INSIST you have something wrong with you all the time? He eventually labelled me with PTSS -Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. The whole experience turned me off to psychology and their tactics. They are so quick to label you as something without even knowing you that can affect your self-esteem.
In another instance I had a bad intestinal infection and was in a lot of pain. I went to a general doctor asking for help (literally in tears because it hurt so bad). Because I was crying he insisted I be tested for depression and go talk to a mental counselor. I was so livid! He sent me home still in pain. I talked to my mother (who also works in the medical community) and she took me to a better doctor and they took an abdominal x-ray, found the problem and fixed it, without once insisting I was depressed. I wrote a letter to the hospital and refused to pay the co-pay from that visit.
I guess my point here is that I believe my boyfriend's doctor (and a lot of doctor's I've had) are over-zealous.....his doctor signed him up for SSD full-well believing he is/was a lot worse off than he really is. He has gone in to the SS office here (it's similar to downtown Chicago or NY).......it's very ghetto and you have to get patted down to get in the door.....and the people there treat my boyfriend like he's a cripple and there is a huge lack of respect there (I've gone for his yearly interview).
At any rate he's still fighting and will hopefully get something in his favor.
Hey, this is just my personal opinion but I think psychiatry is 95% complete dog snot theory with no real medical backup. I think there is a small percentage of truly mentally ill people, but these days anyone who is shy or has a tough time is considered ill and needing "medication". Sure, if a person feels rotten and chooses to take a prescription pill, that's fine (although I believe pills are unhealthy and dangerous for some) but it's the labeling that goes with that which burns my be-hind.
My nephew got diagnoised with ADD, poor kid, he's so smart and sensitive. The meds caused some side effects, and luckily his dad decided to consider taking him off for his health's sake. The med even changed his sweet nature into a defiant one. Now he's back to his old self, and it seems a new school year and new teacher really changed everything. But I know how these ADD kids are teased because of these psychiatric labels.
Now really, any intelligent person knows that "shyness" is not a serious medical condition or brain imbalance yet they claim this on Zoloft commercials....what a subliminal scare tactic, how clever but it burns me to think most people will believe it.
I remember the first PMDD commercials with the woman struggling with a shopping cart....man, how sad is that. :rolleyes: THen others with the husbands talking about the wife....yeah, I'd like to see my husband on that commercial, he wouldn't dare....
As far as the relationship/boyfriend thing goes at 16, boy, what a moron that doctor was! What, should you be married by 19 or 20 too? Maybe pregnant at 17? Is this guy for real? How about enjoying finding yourself and what you want to do in life first before bringing another into it?
Take it from someone who dated and married early, it's a big mistake! But wait, I don't want to be as judgemental about it as your doctor, who by the way, a medical degree does not make one an expert in matters of the heart, that's individual and we must find our own way there. So I take back the "mistake" comment, as no doubt some high school sweethearts are still happily married years later.
But waiting for the right person isn't a crime now, my own daughter wanted to wait intil she found someone worth her time, so she's just now gotten her first boyfriend at age 22! Believe me, quality is more important than quantity and this guy has quality, he apparentely was in love with her for years before she noticed, he treats her so well and he's entering now to study becoming a fireman...an American hero.... I think she's made a good choice for a boyfriend.......I wonder what she would have dragged home at 16????? :eek:
ManiMe
02-03-2005, 07:37 PM
Jennita -
Now THAT'S what I call RESPONSIVE !!!!! :)
Now THAT'S what I call RESPONSIVE !!!!! :)
Jennita
02-04-2005, 03:46 PM
Jennita -
Now THAT'S what I call RESPONSIVE !!!!! :)
Thanks. I re-read what I wrote and realize I was really PO'd about this whole thing that this poor guy and his girlfriend are going thru because of other people who are acting like a bunch of a-holes! And children, well, I have raised two and I can only imagine how it would cut the heart out of a parent to be denied their child! I don't think this whole thing is right, and of course I blame the psychiatric dogsnotcommunity for this....some of them need their children taken from them and see how they like it. :mad:
I think the man has to fight for his kid, this thing is outrageous to me. These docs who won't admit any mis-diagnosis or even re-diagnois after one has become better, well, their opinion/profession means rat-poop IMHO. Imagine a regular doctor saying you still have cancer when clearly your symptoms are gone and the X-ray shows nothing...
Guess I went off a bit much here, though....oops... :eek:
Now THAT'S what I call RESPONSIVE !!!!! :)
Thanks. I re-read what I wrote and realize I was really PO'd about this whole thing that this poor guy and his girlfriend are going thru because of other people who are acting like a bunch of a-holes! And children, well, I have raised two and I can only imagine how it would cut the heart out of a parent to be denied their child! I don't think this whole thing is right, and of course I blame the psychiatric dogsnotcommunity for this....some of them need their children taken from them and see how they like it. :mad:
I think the man has to fight for his kid, this thing is outrageous to me. These docs who won't admit any mis-diagnosis or even re-diagnois after one has become better, well, their opinion/profession means rat-poop IMHO. Imagine a regular doctor saying you still have cancer when clearly your symptoms are gone and the X-ray shows nothing...
Guess I went off a bit much here, though....oops... :eek:
Reboot
02-21-2005, 12:39 PM
He should not feel bad and I have had the same response. I was a locomotive engineer until my illness disrupted my life. I now am recieveing Railroad Disability and I often yo-yo. I am currently on Lithium and Trileptal and taking college courses on line to avoid problems with people when my illness flairs up. Tell him to keep his head up :) Just curious if anyone out there has had any experience/suggestions with how to deal with being bi-polar and the law.
Situation:
My boyfriend was diagnosed as bi-polar his senior year of Pre-med and voluntarily checked himself into the hospital because he was yoyo'ing (emotionally) all the time and had classic symptoms.
He was in-patient for 5 days where they did a whole slew of tests and found nothing wrong. They finally decided he was mildly bi-polar and put him on meds and sent him home.
His family treated him like a freak show, thinking he was a mental case. This happened back in 1993. He lost most of his friends due to their ignorance of knowing what bi-polar is and they treated him differently because of it.
His doctors pretty much told him he would never be able to live a normal life, and they signed him up for SSD (social security disability, bi-polar does qualify) and he began living off SSD benefits. People criticized him for being on social security because at first glance, he's perfectly normal.
He's a self-employed in construction and highly intelligent (hence, he was just about to enter med. school when things came crashing down around him). The med. school discouraged him from continuing saying that him being bi-polar may get in the way of professional judgement as a physician....in other words the school pretty much rejected him, as did his family and friends.
He's had virtually no support throughout this whole ordeal. His family and friends and professional colleagues (med school) have labelled him as unstable because of the word bi-polar.
He quit his meds (not sure which ones he was on) because he was tired of being devoid of emotion that his meds caused. He has adjusted well and leads a 95% normal life. The only problem he really has to speak of is restlessness and difficulty sleeping.
He's trying to get off SSD, but because he's self-employed, most of what he does make is written off as business expenses and he doesn't work a full 8-hour day so according to the government it's not substantial income because he's not full time (according to their standards) and they are hindering him being on his own.
He was married and divorced in early 2000 and it didn't work out and they divorced. They have a 3-year-old daughter together and his ex-wife hired a lawyer and her lawyer held his bi-polar condition against him and he lost custody of his daughter because of being bi-polar. His parents have joint custody with his ex-wife and the only way he can see her is if he goes to his parents.
He's considering suing his ex-wife and her lawyer, and the state for civil rights violations. He basically raised her from when she was an infant and his ex-wife went to work, but now that they're divorced, she suddenly claims he's unfit (drama queen).
He has no history of violence and functions fine without meds. His ex-wife is on prozac and other psychological drugs and she has a tendancy to be violent yet she has full custody.
He's in the process of finding a mental-health lawyer to take his case. Finances aren't an issue so hopefully something moves in his favor.
Any suggestions/comments on similiar experiences with the law are appreciated. He wants his daughter back and is willing to take any feedback out there. :)
Situation:
My boyfriend was diagnosed as bi-polar his senior year of Pre-med and voluntarily checked himself into the hospital because he was yoyo'ing (emotionally) all the time and had classic symptoms.
He was in-patient for 5 days where they did a whole slew of tests and found nothing wrong. They finally decided he was mildly bi-polar and put him on meds and sent him home.
His family treated him like a freak show, thinking he was a mental case. This happened back in 1993. He lost most of his friends due to their ignorance of knowing what bi-polar is and they treated him differently because of it.
His doctors pretty much told him he would never be able to live a normal life, and they signed him up for SSD (social security disability, bi-polar does qualify) and he began living off SSD benefits. People criticized him for being on social security because at first glance, he's perfectly normal.
He's a self-employed in construction and highly intelligent (hence, he was just about to enter med. school when things came crashing down around him). The med. school discouraged him from continuing saying that him being bi-polar may get in the way of professional judgement as a physician....in other words the school pretty much rejected him, as did his family and friends.
He's had virtually no support throughout this whole ordeal. His family and friends and professional colleagues (med school) have labelled him as unstable because of the word bi-polar.
He quit his meds (not sure which ones he was on) because he was tired of being devoid of emotion that his meds caused. He has adjusted well and leads a 95% normal life. The only problem he really has to speak of is restlessness and difficulty sleeping.
He's trying to get off SSD, but because he's self-employed, most of what he does make is written off as business expenses and he doesn't work a full 8-hour day so according to the government it's not substantial income because he's not full time (according to their standards) and they are hindering him being on his own.
He was married and divorced in early 2000 and it didn't work out and they divorced. They have a 3-year-old daughter together and his ex-wife hired a lawyer and her lawyer held his bi-polar condition against him and he lost custody of his daughter because of being bi-polar. His parents have joint custody with his ex-wife and the only way he can see her is if he goes to his parents.
He's considering suing his ex-wife and her lawyer, and the state for civil rights violations. He basically raised her from when she was an infant and his ex-wife went to work, but now that they're divorced, she suddenly claims he's unfit (drama queen).
He has no history of violence and functions fine without meds. His ex-wife is on prozac and other psychological drugs and she has a tendancy to be violent yet she has full custody.
He's in the process of finding a mental-health lawyer to take his case. Finances aren't an issue so hopefully something moves in his favor.
Any suggestions/comments on similiar experiences with the law are appreciated. He wants his daughter back and is willing to take any feedback out there. :)