llmrealestate
02-02-2005, 01:23 PM
Hi all. I'm Lynda. My 30 year old daughter is a rapid cycler. She is currently on seroquel and lamictal and after about 9 months is starting to experience tremors. This is a huge problem because she is in her senior year at the university and is trembling so bad she can't take notes, plus she is highly embarrassed by it. A little background on her: She is a single mother of a four year old (full custody) and an 11 year old (weekends only). She was diagnosed about 4 years ago. She is on Medical (welfare) and they started her on lithium. With every new side effect, they piled on another pill until she was taking a cocktail of 7 different ones. We talked and talked and she finally decided she was so toxic she had to stop all of them. After being off of everything for 9 months, she resumed her pattern of rapid cycling and really bad decisions, ending with a weekend binge of drugs and alcohol and rolling her car (she says it wasn't a suicide attempt, but I still wonder). She was hospitalized for 3 days (voluntary) and they started her on the seroquel and lamictil. Does anyone have any experience with this combination and can we figure out which one is causing the tremors without stopping both meds or adding another? Any advice would be appreciated.
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ManiMe
02-02-2005, 01:35 PM
Hi Lynda (oops, that might blow my denial of past 12-step programs......) !
No direct experience with either of those two (from me).
Others will hopefully post.
Thought I'd try to give you some positive feedback. I don't respond well to ANY meds, and tremors/gappy balance and equilibrium (along with distracting visual anomalies) made it so that I felt totally unsafe behind the wheel of a moving vehicle. If I glanced to either side - to look at a blur I thought I'd seen move - then I'd start to weave off the road. BAD. VERY BAD.
It's a tough balance for all of us, regarding the medications. It's extremely frustrating. There have been many ongoing discussions on this board regarding the cost/benefit analysis. Some folks hope that by seriously trying to reduce stress in their own lives (even through psychotherapy), then they might reduce the AMOUNT of required medications and improve their lives.
I would recommend that any change be done gradually - and records kept of effectiveness. Modify as needed - but very gradually. In all regards. Sudden jolts of any sort can act as potential triggers. It is my guess that your daughter went off her meds too quickly.
As she stabilizes, you might use that information to help strike a workable balance in any future medication reductions.
For what it's worth, I've been around a few times, and the heavier I get, the rounder I get along with it (and I'm trying to practice what I preach by using a similar approach on diet and exercise).
Best wishes to you both (and all the other 6+ billion hominids that might have access to these boards) ! :)
NOW - would someone with REAL specifics concerning those meds please consider giving some feedback (oh, pretty please ?).......
No direct experience with either of those two (from me).
Others will hopefully post.
Thought I'd try to give you some positive feedback. I don't respond well to ANY meds, and tremors/gappy balance and equilibrium (along with distracting visual anomalies) made it so that I felt totally unsafe behind the wheel of a moving vehicle. If I glanced to either side - to look at a blur I thought I'd seen move - then I'd start to weave off the road. BAD. VERY BAD.
It's a tough balance for all of us, regarding the medications. It's extremely frustrating. There have been many ongoing discussions on this board regarding the cost/benefit analysis. Some folks hope that by seriously trying to reduce stress in their own lives (even through psychotherapy), then they might reduce the AMOUNT of required medications and improve their lives.
I would recommend that any change be done gradually - and records kept of effectiveness. Modify as needed - but very gradually. In all regards. Sudden jolts of any sort can act as potential triggers. It is my guess that your daughter went off her meds too quickly.
As she stabilizes, you might use that information to help strike a workable balance in any future medication reductions.
For what it's worth, I've been around a few times, and the heavier I get, the rounder I get along with it (and I'm trying to practice what I preach by using a similar approach on diet and exercise).
Best wishes to you both (and all the other 6+ billion hominids that might have access to these boards) ! :)
NOW - would someone with REAL specifics concerning those meds please consider giving some feedback (oh, pretty please ?).......
llmrealestate
02-02-2005, 03:34 PM
Hi manimi, thanks for the response. Yes, she has also experienced weight gain and is now doing Atkins. I have been on Atkins for 1-1/2 years and had good results. She said yesterday, she had no tremors, but today they're back. She also doesn't feel the lamictal is as effective as it was since she's been feeling weepy and is having more trouble articulating what she wishes to say. I have suggested a journal detailing what she eats and what kind of rest and stress she has each day to try and find out if any of those things affect her tremors or other side effects. I'm also hoping that others will respond. While I am not bp, I am truly hoping for a much better understanding so that I can help her understand it. She is even considering ECT because she's heard it can "cure" bp so she won't have to deal with meds. Do you have any feedback on that?
Again, thanks for your response. It's so nice to have a place to ask questions freely from those that have been there and are further along on their journey with bp.
Again, thanks for your response. It's so nice to have a place to ask questions freely from those that have been there and are further along on their journey with bp.
llmrealestate
02-02-2005, 06:50 PM
My daughter has asked me to inquire if the "mental" side effects of lack of concentration, inability to articulate well, memory loss and such are considered a side effect and which drug (lamictil or seroquel) could be causing it. Or is it part of bp itself that is contributing to this. once again, thanks for any input. My daughter has asked me to post this because her tremors prevent her from typing.
princesspea
02-02-2005, 08:03 PM
Hi!
I just hijack this from one of K's posts. I hope it helps. I personally know nothing about these meds.
SEROQUEL
Although side effects from quetiapine are not common, they can occur. Tell your doctor if any of these symptoms are severe or do not go away:
dizziness
lightheadedness
constipation
stomach pain
headache
excessive weight gain
runny nose
rash
ear pain
flu symptoms
swollen ankles
If you experience any of the following symptoms or those listed in the SPECIAL PRECAUTIONS section, call your doctor immediately:
fainting, seizures, increased body temperature (fever), muscle stiffness, difficulty thinking clearly, fast or irregular heartbeat muscle spasms, fine worm-like tongue movements, tremors, shuffling walk, inability to sit still, jerky movements
LAMICTAL
Although side effects from lamotrigine are not common, they can occur. Tell your doctor if any of these symptoms are severe or do not go away:
drowsiness
upset stomach
vomiting
diarrhea
changes in balance
loss of taste and appetite
headache
irritability
insomnia
If you experience any of the following symptoms or those described in the IMPORTANT WARNING section, call your doctor immediately:
redness of skin
swelling
I have to look up ECT. I have nothing on it. It was always my understanding that it was for depression but, they find so many different uses for all kinds of things everyday. If I discover anything about it and bp, I'll post it right away!
YOU can post here anytime! We have other family members that post here too. We allow them in :D . I'm sorry you have to post for your daughter for the reason you have to. Say hi for me!
The journal idea is an excellent one!!! It's important for her to keep how she feels, her moods and what she eats. I recently was dx'd with Celiac Disease and I had no idea...same thing when I got dx'd with diabetes. I really should take your advise for myself!
You sound like a great Mom!!!
Love,
Jamie
I just hijack this from one of K's posts. I hope it helps. I personally know nothing about these meds.
SEROQUEL
Although side effects from quetiapine are not common, they can occur. Tell your doctor if any of these symptoms are severe or do not go away:
dizziness
lightheadedness
constipation
stomach pain
headache
excessive weight gain
runny nose
rash
ear pain
flu symptoms
swollen ankles
If you experience any of the following symptoms or those listed in the SPECIAL PRECAUTIONS section, call your doctor immediately:
fainting, seizures, increased body temperature (fever), muscle stiffness, difficulty thinking clearly, fast or irregular heartbeat muscle spasms, fine worm-like tongue movements, tremors, shuffling walk, inability to sit still, jerky movements
LAMICTAL
Although side effects from lamotrigine are not common, they can occur. Tell your doctor if any of these symptoms are severe or do not go away:
drowsiness
upset stomach
vomiting
diarrhea
changes in balance
loss of taste and appetite
headache
irritability
insomnia
If you experience any of the following symptoms or those described in the IMPORTANT WARNING section, call your doctor immediately:
redness of skin
swelling
I have to look up ECT. I have nothing on it. It was always my understanding that it was for depression but, they find so many different uses for all kinds of things everyday. If I discover anything about it and bp, I'll post it right away!
YOU can post here anytime! We have other family members that post here too. We allow them in :D . I'm sorry you have to post for your daughter for the reason you have to. Say hi for me!
The journal idea is an excellent one!!! It's important for her to keep how she feels, her moods and what she eats. I recently was dx'd with Celiac Disease and I had no idea...same thing when I got dx'd with diabetes. I really should take your advise for myself!
You sound like a great Mom!!!
Love,
Jamie
mudhound
02-02-2005, 10:15 PM
I agree with Jamie
princesspea
02-03-2005, 12:21 AM
Hi :wave: ,
Me again. I've spent the evening trying to research ECT. There doesn't seem to be allot out there about ECT and bipolar. What's out there seems to be mostly theory. Maybe you guys saw something I didn't.
They do use it for bp but they don't seem to know why or how it works. It surely doesn't sound like a cure but, they also say it's safer then lithium. Allot of the meds out there now are safer than lithium. One lady on this board has been on that 20 years!
If it were me, and this is only my opinion, I wouldn't do it. It sounds like it will make the side effect of memory loss worse. One in ten people have long term memory loss. That's too big a roll of the dice for me. Please remember I'm NOT a doctor and I have no degree to base this feeling on just my research. I am a bp though and I know the horrible time you can have with meds and I still would start there.
Try to pin point something else that may be causing some of these side effect like the tumors. I just don't find that side effect anywhere. I asked two friends on the same meds as you daughter and they had slight memory loss but that was it.
I'm sorry I can't be more helpful.
Love,
Jamie
Me again. I've spent the evening trying to research ECT. There doesn't seem to be allot out there about ECT and bipolar. What's out there seems to be mostly theory. Maybe you guys saw something I didn't.
They do use it for bp but they don't seem to know why or how it works. It surely doesn't sound like a cure but, they also say it's safer then lithium. Allot of the meds out there now are safer than lithium. One lady on this board has been on that 20 years!
If it were me, and this is only my opinion, I wouldn't do it. It sounds like it will make the side effect of memory loss worse. One in ten people have long term memory loss. That's too big a roll of the dice for me. Please remember I'm NOT a doctor and I have no degree to base this feeling on just my research. I am a bp though and I know the horrible time you can have with meds and I still would start there.
Try to pin point something else that may be causing some of these side effect like the tumors. I just don't find that side effect anywhere. I asked two friends on the same meds as you daughter and they had slight memory loss but that was it.
I'm sorry I can't be more helpful.
Love,
Jamie
ManiMe
02-03-2005, 09:15 AM
I've known folks in a support group that got ECT regularly.
I wouldn't recommend it.
One tries to do as little damage as possible, and make the patient's condition better as opposed to worse. I am not a doctor.
ECT is not totally dissimilar to chiropractic "adjustment". In chiropractic, RAPID hyper-extension fires off overwhelming nerve signals. Hence, the sensations are effectively "dulled" while the muscles relax.
ECT kind of blows-out theoretically hung relays with an over-riding electric impulse.
To me, it's kind of like tossing a hand-grenade where a well placed marble would have sufficed. And even then, who knows what additional damage might have transpired. Or if the "circuits" will have been realligned at all on the other side.
The ECT person that I followed the most (not just because she was an attractive blond) had been a psychiatric nurse in a major city by the sea. She received shock therapy not less than weekly for the 18 months I knew her. Personally, I never saw where it helped her. Sure, she was depressed - but I think the ECT just acted like a distractant. Conversely, she loved my jokes, and would smile whenever we were allowed to converse (her husband was an over-bearing over-jealous control freak, which I feel was the source of her depression - but what can I do).
Try to work a bit on her environment. Find her a hobby or something to focus on so that the inward thoughts can't/won't spiral. Distraction from our own potentially self-destructive thinking can be essential ! I ALWAYS recommend SPORTS (if at all possible) !
Best wishes and best of luck ! :)
I wouldn't recommend it.
One tries to do as little damage as possible, and make the patient's condition better as opposed to worse. I am not a doctor.
ECT is not totally dissimilar to chiropractic "adjustment". In chiropractic, RAPID hyper-extension fires off overwhelming nerve signals. Hence, the sensations are effectively "dulled" while the muscles relax.
ECT kind of blows-out theoretically hung relays with an over-riding electric impulse.
To me, it's kind of like tossing a hand-grenade where a well placed marble would have sufficed. And even then, who knows what additional damage might have transpired. Or if the "circuits" will have been realligned at all on the other side.
The ECT person that I followed the most (not just because she was an attractive blond) had been a psychiatric nurse in a major city by the sea. She received shock therapy not less than weekly for the 18 months I knew her. Personally, I never saw where it helped her. Sure, she was depressed - but I think the ECT just acted like a distractant. Conversely, she loved my jokes, and would smile whenever we were allowed to converse (her husband was an over-bearing over-jealous control freak, which I feel was the source of her depression - but what can I do).
Try to work a bit on her environment. Find her a hobby or something to focus on so that the inward thoughts can't/won't spiral. Distraction from our own potentially self-destructive thinking can be essential ! I ALWAYS recommend SPORTS (if at all possible) !
Best wishes and best of luck ! :)
llmrealestate
02-03-2005, 12:46 PM
Wow! thanks everybody for all the info on ECT. I am somewhat relieved by your research. ECT still sounds like such a barbaric thing to do (shades of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"). What about clinical trials on new meds? Has anyone had any luck with something like that? My daughter (her name is Charity) seems to get so distressed and frustrated over the tremors and I am so fearful that she will go off her meds again. Am I being too protective here? Should I be stepping back and allowing her to handle more on her own (she is 30, after all). I worry about that alot, alternating between worrying about keeping her on her meds and trying to "mother" her. I do have a lot of guilt about missing symptoms she had as a child and teenager and not getting treatment for her then, so maybe I'm trying to make up for that. Sorry for the ramble. I just want to do what's right for her.
ManiMe
02-03-2005, 01:34 PM
Hey - You're far from "rambling" !!!!
Unfortunately, I've gotta go in a few moments, so this'll be my last post this AM........
llmrealestate -
I would STRONGLY recommend you/she immediately discuss the concerns with Charity's Pdoc, and hopefully they'll adjust the dosage (downwards) until the tremors resolve OR they try something else.
Best of luck !!!!!!!! :)
Unfortunately, I've gotta go in a few moments, so this'll be my last post this AM........
llmrealestate -
I would STRONGLY recommend you/she immediately discuss the concerns with Charity's Pdoc, and hopefully they'll adjust the dosage (downwards) until the tremors resolve OR they try something else.
Best of luck !!!!!!!! :)
princesspea
02-04-2005, 12:52 AM
I agree with Mani. I think a trip to the psych. is required here.
You're not over mothering by trying to help your daughter to stay on med. It's my husband job in this house. The people who have allot of support seem to do better. You're doing the right thing.
If she is unhappy on the meds she's on now there are more out there. There's no reason for Charity to suffer though horrible side effects.
The only study I've been involved with is one on fish oil and fat in you're diet so I can't tell you anything about trials. It's pretty late tonight but, I will gladly do some looking around tomorrow for you. I'm sure if it's at a repulabile hospital like the one I was in they maybe able to do quite a bit for your daughter. If you can't find a conventional med that works, it's always worth a try.
My first stop would still be to the psych. If you don't get any satisfation you may need a new one. I say this because there is just NO REASON to put up with bad side effects like you're discribing.
Hope this helps for now.
Love,
Jamie
You're not over mothering by trying to help your daughter to stay on med. It's my husband job in this house. The people who have allot of support seem to do better. You're doing the right thing.
If she is unhappy on the meds she's on now there are more out there. There's no reason for Charity to suffer though horrible side effects.
The only study I've been involved with is one on fish oil and fat in you're diet so I can't tell you anything about trials. It's pretty late tonight but, I will gladly do some looking around tomorrow for you. I'm sure if it's at a repulabile hospital like the one I was in they maybe able to do quite a bit for your daughter. If you can't find a conventional med that works, it's always worth a try.
My first stop would still be to the psych. If you don't get any satisfation you may need a new one. I say this because there is just NO REASON to put up with bad side effects like you're discribing.
Hope this helps for now.
Love,
Jamie
llmrealestate
02-04-2005, 04:13 PM
Thanks so much Jamie. the problem she has with the Pdoc is she's on welfare. She doesn't have any choices. Unfortunately, I can't get her on my insurance because she lives on her own and is 30 years old. Her Pdoc cancelled last month's appointment and her appt. this month isn't until the end of the month (Pdoc was out of town). There is nobody else to cover this woman's appointments. I'm thinking very seriously about taking out a 2nd mortgage on my house to finance a really good doc and the meds to go with it, but I don't know if I'll qualify.
We'll keep working on the meds and the Pdoc when she gets in to see about the side effects. Thanks again.
Lynda
We'll keep working on the meds and the Pdoc when she gets in to see about the side effects. Thanks again.
Lynda
princesspea
02-04-2005, 05:28 PM
Hi IIm and Charity,
Don't take out that second mortgage yet!!!! You maybe able to get the pdoc to perscribe something else and then get help from the drug company on the meds. Read the thread: Tapamax by davesgurl. There's some info there about going about it. Check it out. Since Charity, you're on your own you might qualify for one of their programs.
If you take sometime now and research meds and companies programs, you might be able to go into your pdoc appointment armed with info on what way you want to go with your meds. My last med change I investigated what was out there and what my insurance company would pay for before I went in. It helped the process move allong and helped my pdoc make a choice based on what was best for me not what came off the top of his head. Any amount of research is worth every dime of time you put in it as I'm sure you already know. Hope this helps.
Love,
Jamie
Don't take out that second mortgage yet!!!! You maybe able to get the pdoc to perscribe something else and then get help from the drug company on the meds. Read the thread: Tapamax by davesgurl. There's some info there about going about it. Check it out. Since Charity, you're on your own you might qualify for one of their programs.
If you take sometime now and research meds and companies programs, you might be able to go into your pdoc appointment armed with info on what way you want to go with your meds. My last med change I investigated what was out there and what my insurance company would pay for before I went in. It helped the process move allong and helped my pdoc make a choice based on what was best for me not what came off the top of his head. Any amount of research is worth every dime of time you put in it as I'm sure you already know. Hope this helps.
Love,
Jamie
d_j
02-04-2005, 05:45 PM
Hi, Both my father and I have taken lithium. My dad is just trying to get off of it, actually. The side effects (tremors) are probably from that. I switched over to depakote ER because of the extreme tremors. The tremors are A LOT less for me now. For some people I think lithium does not agree with them. I would suggest talking to the psychiatrist about the tremors, and perhaps changing the medication if possible. Just a suggestion.
llmrealestate
02-05-2005, 12:27 PM
Thanks folks. Good suggestion on doing the research and contacting the drug companies. i will definitely try that. Charity complained yesterday that her whole right side did not "feel right". Her right leg was shaky and she was being careful when she spoke to enunciate each and every word because she said her tongue felt shaky. Later in the evening, I noticed her pupils were reacting differently. The right one was larger than the left one. This worries me greatly! I asked her to reduce her seroquel last night from 200 to 150 and to reduce her morning lamictil from 100 to 50 to see if that helped the "shakes". Am i wrong in trying to adjust her dosage? I told her if it continued into today, a trip to ER was in order. I haven't seen her yet today so i don't know if she feels better, but I will keep you posted. Thanks again.
Lynda
Lynda
princesspea
02-05-2005, 04:29 PM
Lynda and Charity,
Get Charity to the er NOW! Those are dangerous side effects and somethings going to give!!! Those aren't side effects to mess around with.
You probably did her a great serves by telling her to reduce her meds. We are now getting past "side effects" and into DANGEROUS side effects! She should NEVER have numbness on one side or her pupils different.
Go and Go now! Keep us posted.
Love and Hugs to you!
Love,
Jamie
Get Charity to the er NOW! Those are dangerous side effects and somethings going to give!!! Those aren't side effects to mess around with.
You probably did her a great serves by telling her to reduce her meds. We are now getting past "side effects" and into DANGEROUS side effects! She should NEVER have numbness on one side or her pupils different.
Go and Go now! Keep us posted.
Love and Hugs to you!
Love,
Jamie
llmrealestate
02-08-2005, 12:08 PM
Hi Jamie: We finally took your advice and i took Charity to the ER on Monday. I could just scream!!!!!!!! After four hours and a CT scan, they told her "there's nothing wrong with your brain" (ha ha), here's a prescription for motrin 600. They also said "maybe you should try increasing your seroquel." They also told us (after 4 hours) "we can't do anything with psych meds." Today we will be going to a different hospital that actually has a behavior health unit (it's where Charity was first hospitalized). Her pdoc's office (remember, her pdoc is out of town) said to go there (after 6 calls while waiting at the ER). I am so frustrated and Charity is sooooooooo tired. she says she just doesn't care anymore.
I will keep you updated after todays visit.
Lynda and Charity
I will keep you updated after todays visit.
Lynda and Charity
princesspea
02-08-2005, 05:01 PM
Lynda and Charity,
I'll bet Charity is exhausted! Between the side effect, tremors and run around I'll bet you both are. I can't beleave your ER. What idiots you must have been dealing with.
Please be sure and let me know. How today goes. I was really concerned!
Love,
Jamie
I'll bet Charity is exhausted! Between the side effect, tremors and run around I'll bet you both are. I can't beleave your ER. What idiots you must have been dealing with.
Please be sure and let me know. How today goes. I was really concerned!
Love,
Jamie
llmrealestate
02-08-2005, 09:09 PM
Hi Jamie: You aren't going to believe this....... after another 4-1/2 hours in the different ER, they told her to go off her seroquel (cold turkey) and cut her limictil in half. While in the ER, the doc was able to observe her tremors and gave her 2 mg. of atavan which did wonders. However, he would not prescribe them for her when she left. charity is terrified about going off the seroquel (she won't be sleeping for a long time and this also controlled the racing thoughts) and very nervous to cut the lamictil in half for fear that she is going to crash and burn. She still could not see a pdoc. Her appointment with her regular pdoc is Monday, 2/14. I have given her a vicodan for her severe headache (which is what they gave her yesterday) and hopefully, it will also help her sleep. She and her 4 year old daughter will be staying with me until her pdoc appt. cause I know what happens to her when she goes off her meds. Do you think it's safe to go cold turkey off the seroquel.
thanks for your concern and for any insight you can offer.
Lynda and Charity
thanks for your concern and for any insight you can offer.
Lynda and Charity
princesspea
02-09-2005, 05:40 PM
Lynda and Charity,
Now this is my opinion and ONLY my opinion. I have a friend who tried to cold turkey off of seroquel and it wasn't pretty. I can understand why they would want her to though because her side effects can be so dangerous. Not the tremors so much as the other ones.
I can't believe they didn't give her anything for the terrible tremors though when they knew something worked. ER docs are something to busy covering their bottoms to do what's best for the patient especially when it comes to mental illness. They can be as ignorant about it as the "civilian" population.
I'm so relieved to hear Charity and her daughter are staying with you until the appt on the 14th. You're a special Mom and Grandmom!
The vicodan should knock the edge off the with drawl from the mood stablizer if she takes it at night to help sleep. I know that's not what it's for but, at this point my opinion is if it works...
I'm glad they kept her on at least SOME lamictil. Maybe that will get her to Monday. White knuckling it is never fun. My heart goes out to Charity.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Love,
Jamie
Now this is my opinion and ONLY my opinion. I have a friend who tried to cold turkey off of seroquel and it wasn't pretty. I can understand why they would want her to though because her side effects can be so dangerous. Not the tremors so much as the other ones.
I can't believe they didn't give her anything for the terrible tremors though when they knew something worked. ER docs are something to busy covering their bottoms to do what's best for the patient especially when it comes to mental illness. They can be as ignorant about it as the "civilian" population.
I'm so relieved to hear Charity and her daughter are staying with you until the appt on the 14th. You're a special Mom and Grandmom!
The vicodan should knock the edge off the with drawl from the mood stablizer if she takes it at night to help sleep. I know that's not what it's for but, at this point my opinion is if it works...
I'm glad they kept her on at least SOME lamictil. Maybe that will get her to Monday. White knuckling it is never fun. My heart goes out to Charity.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Love,
Jamie
llmrealestate
02-09-2005, 08:39 PM
thanks Jamie for your reply. We are trying to maintain. Last night was a trial. The tremors (such an insignificant word for what she was experiencing) were so violent that I thought she was seizing. They would last for about 30 minutes, she would then vomit for about 20 minutes, be able to rest for about an hour and then they would start all over again. I finally got her to bed about 1:30 a.m. Needless to say, there was no sleep for her, but she did "float" she said. The vicodan does not help the tremors so they continue today.
After much late night/early morning research, we have discovered that one of the "rare" but serious side effects to seroquel is "drug induced parkinsonism". It sometimes goes away, but sometimes it does not. I contacted an attorney today, both for a possible product liability claim against the makers of seroquel and a possible malpractice against both her regular pdoc and, especially, the pdoc that was still at the clinic and refused to see Charity (after 6 calls to him on Monday and the ER calling him on Tuesday). Please let everyone know that this is a possible side effect.
Charity would like me to tell you that she thinks she would have gotten far better treatment had she come into the ER as a drug addict or a drunk. She would really like to do something to improve 'public' education (including medical personnel) about mental illness and, more specifically, bi-polar. We will deal with that when she gets better.
Lynda and Charity
After much late night/early morning research, we have discovered that one of the "rare" but serious side effects to seroquel is "drug induced parkinsonism". It sometimes goes away, but sometimes it does not. I contacted an attorney today, both for a possible product liability claim against the makers of seroquel and a possible malpractice against both her regular pdoc and, especially, the pdoc that was still at the clinic and refused to see Charity (after 6 calls to him on Monday and the ER calling him on Tuesday). Please let everyone know that this is a possible side effect.
Charity would like me to tell you that she thinks she would have gotten far better treatment had she come into the ER as a drug addict or a drunk. She would really like to do something to improve 'public' education (including medical personnel) about mental illness and, more specifically, bi-polar. We will deal with that when she gets better.
Lynda and Charity
princesspea
02-09-2005, 10:18 PM
Lynda and Charity,
I'm sending prayers your way! I did not know about this side effect. I am truly sorry that she is going through it. I just knew her side effects needed emergency attention. Don't forget when you talk to the lawyer about the ER doc that did nothing except tell her to take more. I think he's at fault in this too. They have computerized data bases now that show ALL the side effects even the rare ones available to doctors. Maybe if she sues she can afford a good doc!
I'm very glad that Charity at least floated for awhile it's not like sleep but, it is a form of rest. I just wish I could wrap her up in my arms and give her a big hug.
I am VERY PROUD of Charity for thinking of others in the middle of her pain. I admire her for wanting to help get rid of the ignerance. I just don't know why in this day and age why she has to go through this. It's not like when the info just wasn't out there. THEY HAVE COMPUTERS IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM!!! I'm sure you already thought of that. It just makes me so MAD!
Thanks God she had you as a mother to be with her and help her wade through all the BS. (Excuse my language)
You two take care and keep me posted please.
Love,
Jamie
I'm sending prayers your way! I did not know about this side effect. I am truly sorry that she is going through it. I just knew her side effects needed emergency attention. Don't forget when you talk to the lawyer about the ER doc that did nothing except tell her to take more. I think he's at fault in this too. They have computerized data bases now that show ALL the side effects even the rare ones available to doctors. Maybe if she sues she can afford a good doc!
I'm very glad that Charity at least floated for awhile it's not like sleep but, it is a form of rest. I just wish I could wrap her up in my arms and give her a big hug.
I am VERY PROUD of Charity for thinking of others in the middle of her pain. I admire her for wanting to help get rid of the ignerance. I just don't know why in this day and age why she has to go through this. It's not like when the info just wasn't out there. THEY HAVE COMPUTERS IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM!!! I'm sure you already thought of that. It just makes me so MAD!
Thanks God she had you as a mother to be with her and help her wade through all the BS. (Excuse my language)
You two take care and keep me posted please.
Love,
Jamie
llmrealestate
02-11-2005, 12:20 PM
New Development for us. Things are definitely getting better. The doctor (who keeps refusing to see Charity) yesterday decided (after I threw the word MALPRACTICE around) that she should immediately be admitted to the psych ward (lock down) at a local hospital. Since there was nothing wrong with her mind, Charity declined. I supported her in this decision. Remember she has a 4 year old daughter that she doesn't want to be away from if she's thinking clearly. After continuing our research, i took her yesterday afternoon for her first acupuncture treatment. Since the treatment, she has only had very light hand tremors (she had a very violent tremor incident yesterday morning). She is still having a very tough time sleeping, but the acupuncturist feels confident that he can help her through most of the symptoms. She is scheduled for 12 treatments, the next one is Saturday. He has also given her Chinese herbs. She will keep her appt. with her regular pdoc on Monday, but doesn't want to remain on meds. We will evaluate each day and see how she does. Just wanted to give you an update and thanks for all your support.
Lynda and Charity
Lynda and Charity
loopyturtle
02-11-2005, 09:43 PM
Lynda and Charity, :wave:
Hope things continue to move forward for you. Please keep posting as things happen. I'm currently investigating non-prescription alternatives, myself, as I do not have access to a doctor for scripts. I am sort of on a list to be considered to be seen at a local clinic, but have had horrible experiences with this organization in the past.
I agree with Charity about the treatment in the ER. I remember once hearing the nurse standing in the hall outside my room telling the doctor that meds I was on, and then adding on "but she's a psych, so you really don't know what she is really taking". I was there only for treatment for an allergic reaction. :mad:
What did the attorney tell you?
Good luck to you both.
--Loopy
Hope things continue to move forward for you. Please keep posting as things happen. I'm currently investigating non-prescription alternatives, myself, as I do not have access to a doctor for scripts. I am sort of on a list to be considered to be seen at a local clinic, but have had horrible experiences with this organization in the past.
I agree with Charity about the treatment in the ER. I remember once hearing the nurse standing in the hall outside my room telling the doctor that meds I was on, and then adding on "but she's a psych, so you really don't know what she is really taking". I was there only for treatment for an allergic reaction. :mad:
What did the attorney tell you?
Good luck to you both.
--Loopy
princesspea
02-12-2005, 12:30 AM
Lynda and Charity,
I'm thrilled to hear things are going better. Here's something that was posted to me in a post talking about the natrual suppliments you can use.
Mood-Stabilizing Compounds
Other than lithium, substances that may have mood-stabilizing effects include the following:
Phosphatidyl Choline (Lecithin)
A fairly convincing number of studies suggest that this substance has significant effects on the manic-depressive, with some claiming that it stabilizes moods while others suggesting that it serves as a mood depressant. It is probable that it actually has both actions (as does the prescription drug Depakote). For that reason, although lecithin may be useful in helping to stabilize moods, it should probably be used cautiously, with the patient starting at a fairly low dosage (perhaps 2 capsules of a 35% concentration of the substance per day) and then increasing gradually until moods are stabilized or mild depression is encountered. The recommended amount of this substance for this use seems to vary widely---some people suggest that relatively small amounts (perhaps 3-12 capsules per day) can be quite effective, while others suggest that only much greater amounts tend to be fully effective. (More concentrated forms of this substance are available but not usually stocked in health food stores.) Even if lecithin is only partially successful in reducing mood swings, however, this may still be helpful for those who want to reduce their dosages of prescription medications (for instance, because of side effects at higher amounts) or for those who suffer less severe mood swings. Most writers seem to recommend splitting up the dosages of lecithin over the course of the day (2-3 times per day), or taking the full dosage at night, although there do not seem to be any studies addressing this issue.
L-Taurine
Taurine is an amino acid that has been shown to have anti-convulsant qualities, and appears to be potentially helpful for both epileptics and those suffering from manic-depression (especially the r****-cycling form). The usual recommended dosage seems to be 500-1000 mg, 1-3 times per day, although there seems to be no experimental or anecdotal evidence that larger dosages can cause any unwanted side effects. As with all amino acids, pharmaceutical quality product in capsules is preferable, despite the higher cost----capsules tend to be absorbed more easily, and lesser-quality forms may have the potential of being subject to contamination (such as that which occurred with tryptophan several years ago). Divided dosages are probably preferable.
GABA
GABA is usually classified as amino acid, although it actually serves as a neurotransmitter (there are more GABA sites in the brain than for any of the other neurotransmitters such as dopamine or serotonin). GABA basically serves as an inhibitory transmitter, keeping the brain and body from going into "overdrive." Currently, for instance, pharmaceutical companies are working on a GABA Reuptake Inhibitor that would artificially keep more GABA in the synapses of the brain (similar to what Prozac and related drugs do for serotonin) as a treatment for anxiety). Supplementation of GABA seems to be quite effective for anxiety disorders as well as insomnia (especially the type of insomnia where racing thoughts keep the individual from falling asleep). In addition, although there has been little if any research reported on this, there is also reason to believe that GABA may be effective in the treatment of manic-depression, since many of the substances that are currently used for this purpose (including Depakote and, obviously, gaba-pentin) affect GABA usage. Those who want to experiment with the usage of GABA for anxiety or manic-depression should start at a low dosage (perhaps 250 mg at bedtime or when anxiety occurs) and observe their reactions before taking a larger amount. This may be especially important for those people taking mood stabilizers that may affect GABA usage, since the interaction between the two may cause an undesirable overreaction to occur (just as those who are taking serotonin-based drugs such as Prozac should be careful about taking serotonin's precursor, tryptophan). Undesirable effects of too much GABA may include tingling or numbness in extremities or trunk of the body and shortness of breath; if this occurs, take a smaller amount in the future.
B Complex
The B vitamins are important factors in determining mood; deficiencies of any or all of these vitamins can produce significant symptoms relating to depression, anxiety, irritability, lethargy and fatigue. Many bipolars state that supplementation of B vitamins is extremely important to helping them to feel better. In general, B vitamins tend to work best together as a group; taking too much of any of them may result in deficiencies of others and, therefore, unwanted symptoms. B complex tends to be sold in B50 (50 mg of most of these vitamins, 50 mcg of a few, and 400 or 800 mcg of folic acid) or B100 (100 mg/mcg) dosages; bipolars may find relief with as little as 1 B50 or as many as 6 B100s per day. As with many other supplements, capsule form may be preferable although it is more expensive (some people say manic-depressives do not absorb this vitamin complex easily), and divided dosages also may be preferred. Although other factors (such as some medications) may interfere, a dark yellow-orange urine color may suggest that the individual is taking a sufficient quantity of this vitamin complex.
L-Tyrosine
L-tyrosine is an amino acid that serves as a precursor to the neurotransmitters norepinephrine and dopamine, which have been shown to be deficient in many manic-depressives during their depressed cycles. The supplementation of this amino acid may help the body to form more of these substances during these difficult times; in addition, it may be helpful in cases when clinical or subclinical thyroid disease is present. General recommendations are usually 500-5,000 mg per day, on an empty stomach in the morning or early afternoon (start at a low level and then work up gradually). As with all amino acids, try to get pharmaceutical grade product in capsules.
L-Phenylalynine and DL-Phenylalynine
Phenylalynine is a precursor to tyrosine, and so exhibits many of the same effects. In addition, the supplementation of phenylalynine can help the body to produce a substance called "phenylethylamine," which has been shown to be deficient in many manic-depressives. (Phenylethylamine is also present in chocolate and marijuana, and is created by the body in greater amounts when the individual is "in love"; conversely, a deficiency such as that suffered by many manic-depressives may lead to an unhappy feeling similar to that which "normal" people feel when they are heartbroken.) Phenylethylamine is supposedly present to a greater degree in the DL form of phenylalynine than the L form; however, the DL form may be more likely to increase blood pressure. (The issue of blood pressure increases is often cited as a problem for both the DL and L forms. This increase should be no more than 10 points for an hour or two after the substance is consumed; however, those people who are inclined toward high blood pressure should monitor theirs carefully and decrease or discontinue their use of this substance if a problem is observed.) The usual recommendation for the COMBINATION of tyrosine and phenylalynine (DL or L) is 500 to 5,000 mg per day, on an empty stomach in the morning or early afternoon. It is generally recommended that users start with a low dose and work up gradually.
I am Just reading now a book called "The natural medicine guide to Bipolar Disorder" by Stephanie Marohn. It seems pretty good and pretty complete so far.
I'm glad the acupuncture and herbs are helping. Please keep us posted on how it's going.
Love,
Jamie
I'm thrilled to hear things are going better. Here's something that was posted to me in a post talking about the natrual suppliments you can use.
Mood-Stabilizing Compounds
Other than lithium, substances that may have mood-stabilizing effects include the following:
Phosphatidyl Choline (Lecithin)
A fairly convincing number of studies suggest that this substance has significant effects on the manic-depressive, with some claiming that it stabilizes moods while others suggesting that it serves as a mood depressant. It is probable that it actually has both actions (as does the prescription drug Depakote). For that reason, although lecithin may be useful in helping to stabilize moods, it should probably be used cautiously, with the patient starting at a fairly low dosage (perhaps 2 capsules of a 35% concentration of the substance per day) and then increasing gradually until moods are stabilized or mild depression is encountered. The recommended amount of this substance for this use seems to vary widely---some people suggest that relatively small amounts (perhaps 3-12 capsules per day) can be quite effective, while others suggest that only much greater amounts tend to be fully effective. (More concentrated forms of this substance are available but not usually stocked in health food stores.) Even if lecithin is only partially successful in reducing mood swings, however, this may still be helpful for those who want to reduce their dosages of prescription medications (for instance, because of side effects at higher amounts) or for those who suffer less severe mood swings. Most writers seem to recommend splitting up the dosages of lecithin over the course of the day (2-3 times per day), or taking the full dosage at night, although there do not seem to be any studies addressing this issue.
L-Taurine
Taurine is an amino acid that has been shown to have anti-convulsant qualities, and appears to be potentially helpful for both epileptics and those suffering from manic-depression (especially the r****-cycling form). The usual recommended dosage seems to be 500-1000 mg, 1-3 times per day, although there seems to be no experimental or anecdotal evidence that larger dosages can cause any unwanted side effects. As with all amino acids, pharmaceutical quality product in capsules is preferable, despite the higher cost----capsules tend to be absorbed more easily, and lesser-quality forms may have the potential of being subject to contamination (such as that which occurred with tryptophan several years ago). Divided dosages are probably preferable.
GABA
GABA is usually classified as amino acid, although it actually serves as a neurotransmitter (there are more GABA sites in the brain than for any of the other neurotransmitters such as dopamine or serotonin). GABA basically serves as an inhibitory transmitter, keeping the brain and body from going into "overdrive." Currently, for instance, pharmaceutical companies are working on a GABA Reuptake Inhibitor that would artificially keep more GABA in the synapses of the brain (similar to what Prozac and related drugs do for serotonin) as a treatment for anxiety). Supplementation of GABA seems to be quite effective for anxiety disorders as well as insomnia (especially the type of insomnia where racing thoughts keep the individual from falling asleep). In addition, although there has been little if any research reported on this, there is also reason to believe that GABA may be effective in the treatment of manic-depression, since many of the substances that are currently used for this purpose (including Depakote and, obviously, gaba-pentin) affect GABA usage. Those who want to experiment with the usage of GABA for anxiety or manic-depression should start at a low dosage (perhaps 250 mg at bedtime or when anxiety occurs) and observe their reactions before taking a larger amount. This may be especially important for those people taking mood stabilizers that may affect GABA usage, since the interaction between the two may cause an undesirable overreaction to occur (just as those who are taking serotonin-based drugs such as Prozac should be careful about taking serotonin's precursor, tryptophan). Undesirable effects of too much GABA may include tingling or numbness in extremities or trunk of the body and shortness of breath; if this occurs, take a smaller amount in the future.
B Complex
The B vitamins are important factors in determining mood; deficiencies of any or all of these vitamins can produce significant symptoms relating to depression, anxiety, irritability, lethargy and fatigue. Many bipolars state that supplementation of B vitamins is extremely important to helping them to feel better. In general, B vitamins tend to work best together as a group; taking too much of any of them may result in deficiencies of others and, therefore, unwanted symptoms. B complex tends to be sold in B50 (50 mg of most of these vitamins, 50 mcg of a few, and 400 or 800 mcg of folic acid) or B100 (100 mg/mcg) dosages; bipolars may find relief with as little as 1 B50 or as many as 6 B100s per day. As with many other supplements, capsule form may be preferable although it is more expensive (some people say manic-depressives do not absorb this vitamin complex easily), and divided dosages also may be preferred. Although other factors (such as some medications) may interfere, a dark yellow-orange urine color may suggest that the individual is taking a sufficient quantity of this vitamin complex.
L-Tyrosine
L-tyrosine is an amino acid that serves as a precursor to the neurotransmitters norepinephrine and dopamine, which have been shown to be deficient in many manic-depressives during their depressed cycles. The supplementation of this amino acid may help the body to form more of these substances during these difficult times; in addition, it may be helpful in cases when clinical or subclinical thyroid disease is present. General recommendations are usually 500-5,000 mg per day, on an empty stomach in the morning or early afternoon (start at a low level and then work up gradually). As with all amino acids, try to get pharmaceutical grade product in capsules.
L-Phenylalynine and DL-Phenylalynine
Phenylalynine is a precursor to tyrosine, and so exhibits many of the same effects. In addition, the supplementation of phenylalynine can help the body to produce a substance called "phenylethylamine," which has been shown to be deficient in many manic-depressives. (Phenylethylamine is also present in chocolate and marijuana, and is created by the body in greater amounts when the individual is "in love"; conversely, a deficiency such as that suffered by many manic-depressives may lead to an unhappy feeling similar to that which "normal" people feel when they are heartbroken.) Phenylethylamine is supposedly present to a greater degree in the DL form of phenylalynine than the L form; however, the DL form may be more likely to increase blood pressure. (The issue of blood pressure increases is often cited as a problem for both the DL and L forms. This increase should be no more than 10 points for an hour or two after the substance is consumed; however, those people who are inclined toward high blood pressure should monitor theirs carefully and decrease or discontinue their use of this substance if a problem is observed.) The usual recommendation for the COMBINATION of tyrosine and phenylalynine (DL or L) is 500 to 5,000 mg per day, on an empty stomach in the morning or early afternoon. It is generally recommended that users start with a low dose and work up gradually.
I am Just reading now a book called "The natural medicine guide to Bipolar Disorder" by Stephanie Marohn. It seems pretty good and pretty complete so far.
I'm glad the acupuncture and herbs are helping. Please keep us posted on how it's going.
Love,
Jamie
llmrealestate
02-16-2005, 02:01 PM
Hi Jamie: I thought I would give you an update on Charity. She is back in school this week. She is continuing with her acupuncture treatments and Chinese herbs. Her pdoc on Monday FINALLY ordered some blood tests and prescribed her Ambien to help her sleep. She had to take one last night but it left her with a drug hangover this am and she's not at all pleased with the way it made her feel. However, she did sleep 7 hours. She still has mild hand tremors and is still on her half doses of Lamictil. She sees her pdoc again on Monday and will tell her at that time that she wants off that, too. If this acupuncture works to help stabilize her moods, i will be this treatment's biggest advocate (and so will Charity). Anyway, just wanted to let you know that things are soooooooooooo much better and to thank you for all your support and all the info on the supplements.
Lynda and Charity
Lynda and Charity
princesspea
02-17-2005, 12:12 AM
Lynda and Charity,
Thanks for the up date. I am so happy to hear that things are so much better.
Please let me know how the acupuncture goes. I am very interested.
Your very welcome for anything you think I've done. I've done nothing here that someone else hasn't done for me.
Love,
Jamie
Thanks for the up date. I am so happy to hear that things are so much better.
Please let me know how the acupuncture goes. I am very interested.
Your very welcome for anything you think I've done. I've done nothing here that someone else hasn't done for me.
Love,
Jamie

