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StMishl
03-21-2005, 02:27 PM
Okay, I am sure that there are several ways in which I was wrong. I definately have been lucky to have a relationship with my dr where he perscribes and trusts me to notify him when I am down to 1-2 days (I take oxycontin, 20mg am/20mg pm with a 10 mg in the middle of the day). I live approx 5 minutes from his office, so In the past I call in the am, tell his nurse I am out, then by noon they have the script ready for me to pick up and take to the pharmacy. Sometimes they ask for 24 hrs, so I make sure I have 1-2 days left before going to ask. Problem # 1 was my meds were written 2 am/2 pm so with the bump about 3 weeks ago, (mid-perscription) I was going to obviously run a few days short (the doctor said just to request them as usual - when I was down to just a few pills) and he'd refill them with a perscribtion dosing change, and all would be okay (something sounds wrong here - doesn't it??)

ANyways... On Thursday, after taking my am pills I was down to 4 pills, so 1st thing called his offoce only to find out he took off Wes/Thurs/Fri for Speing break with no back up doctor (yes doctor's need lives too, but ACK!! so at this point I called his emergency "only # - calmly explained the situation (I also have Zero as a back up med - he felt that the oxy should cover it). I never received a reply message from him. Meanwhile I decide to try to reach my PCP who knows my back hystery.... I called her. (of course she is out of the office) but tried to talk to her nurse (who now thinks i am a drug fiend - and I agree, I am looking like one here!!) But no-go, they can't fill a med from another doctor, they'd love to , yada yada yad (I understand the whys and where fors... I really do.) I was just begining to panic.

Okay, So I am accepting the fact I have 4 10 mg pills for Thursday afternoon Friday, Saturady and Sun (Monday I expect to be at the doctor' door). What would have been the best was to use them (again no b/t meds except for tylonol?

I ended up taking one Thursday night, one Saturday morning, one sunday morning. Then slept of a healting pad doing nothing, taking VAST amount of tylonol in between. The 10 mg didn't do much fo the pain as by the point my pain was so out of wack.

I guess I have done a withdrawl trial, which amazes me as I am "higher" feeling (light headed, dizzy, forgettful) OFF of the meds then I ever feel on the meds. I am very out of it, in addition to the PAIN.

I also am very antsy,,, is this withdrawl? Great, now i am in serious pain, and suffering withdrawl. This isn't fair (venting in general, sorry)

So now here I am trying to work (haha), and the nurse finally called back, the doctor is in surgery ALL DAY (OOPS, I guees they can't get me in for my apt so they have pushed it back to Friday). I guess bursting in there for my oxycontin would make me even more of a druggy, so they are calling over some vicodin (Which I took a loooong time ago.

So Shoreline, or others who are so well versed in this, when I get the Vicodin in about 2 hrs, and/or my meds back tomorrow, what is the better way of making sure this never happens again?? I thought I had it easy but ive lost a whole weekend to being incapacitated by pain (at least i've learned how bad the pain is without the meds). As I was following the doctor's orders as for when/how to request new perscriptions, what should I have done once I realised I wasn't going to make it through the weekend? Should I have gone tot he pharmacist (I use one, who does know me and has all of my hystery in front of him) - would he have possible let me have soemthing to have eased the pain - I did not try that angle, but wonder if I should have. Once I realized the foctor wasn't going to call back I decided I was just going to have to curl in a ball and bare it... Im not asking to get yelled at, just some advice.If Id have asked early that would have been wrong too (but at least then I'd have had my meds). Why is the weight of this on our backs - which are least able to bare it??


How do I make some vicodin carry me through the afternoon & night until I have a chance to get the oxycontin back in my system.

Will the oxycontin work right away? Will I need to rebuild my "dose" back up??

Why do I feel so loopy on Tylonol?? Does this go to prove I am a "drug" addict??

Please help,

--St Mishl
Failing fusion (curent)
L4-L5 TILF Fusion 12/13/05
L4 Laminectomy
RA, Asthma

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myspine
03-21-2005, 04:06 PM
Hi there :wave:
Wow that is a bad weekend. The pharamcist would not have been able to help you because it is a CII drug and they are kept vaulted and counted. He would be putting his license on the line and that would not be fair to ask of him. Maybe this time you could try and put one away here and there for an emergency. Easier said then done I know. I am only on Norco for my actual pain med so I do not have any long acting med. I think I need it.
I am from the backboard remember.
Discektomy/lami in 93 ish at l4-5, Disc/lami at l3-4 in99, Fusion 360 with hardware aat l4-5 june04, Exploratory surg. Jan 05 with lamin/foram/decompress of l5, scheduled for SCS trial next Monday. Also now scheduled for ACDF with hardware on C5-6 June 1 :eek: Wow after seeing myself typing that I think I should be in a hospital bed...LOL :D jsut kidding. I am still plugging along I am 34 with 3 little kids, but my short acting meds are not doing the job, I feel like I just keep taking one after the other.
Ayway back to you......... :) I would think since you have not taken the Vicodin in such a long time that you WILL get relief as soon as you start taking them. And maybe they will call in the Vicodin ES or HP which will be better and that will help. Yes you were probably deff. going through withdrawal but that is what happens when our bodies become DEPENDENT, that does not make you and addict, no matter what someone else might think. When you live your life with chronic pain , the pain meds help take the pain away not get you high. When your and Addict there is no pain to take away, not saying that people do not leg. get there after suffering from a bad painful incident , surgery etc. It happens. I think we all live with the fear of taking these meds each day. But without them I fear that I would not live a quality of life at all. I am glad you atleast got some meds called in and go in and talk to your doc about what happened and see what you can do so it does not happen again to you. I have followed your posts and know about your non fusion, fusion and it is a scary situation and I wish you all the best.
Here is a prayer sent your way, I know how you feel :angel:
;) shelley

girl75
03-21-2005, 05:30 PM
hello stmishl, i wonder if they could have given you your triplicate with the date on it when you can pick it up, the day on which you would be able to get it filled so that you couldn't do it till then.???? i wonder what you are suppose to do when this happens. i'm sure that other pt. need their meds refilled too that are triplicates so you would think that they would have some kind of protocol especially when the doc goes on vacation right? thats not fair to you that that happened, its not your fault so no you don't look like an addict. maybe you should call your docs office and ask them what you should do just in case this happens again. let me know equiring minds want to know. lol :confused:

robin(tiana75) :D

Director
03-21-2005, 07:09 PM
Did you consider going to the emergency room at a hospital to see if they could (or would) help you considering your situation of your doctor being unavailable? Sometimes they will and sometimes they won't, just depends on who the doctor on duty is and how much he feels you need help. You really had two situations going, your pain being out of control and the withdrawal, due to your doctor being gone. It's something to consider if this ever happens again. Hopefully, it won't.

NaeNae
03-21-2005, 08:16 PM
Oh no, I feel for you! I had been in that same situation before. I'll tell you my story, not that it will help, but just so you can see you're not alone-a few of us have been there before! I don't have much advice other than what was given and the Vicoden should help you a little. Withdrawls will feel like the flu a little, some sypmtoms are: cold/hot/chills/sweats, diarreah, nausea and vomiting, below zero energy, your pain you already have will increase alot, the first few days you may be extra, extra tired, then insomnia and restless leg. Maybe some anxiety, tingling in hands and feet, runny nose, dizziness and basically bedridden. It sucks, but when it happened to me, I didn't question if I was having withdrawls or not, I KNEW it, it honestly felt like I caught the flue. Of course the severity depends on who much you were taking and how long you were on it.

I was seeing a JERK of a PM Doctor for a while. He had some serious issues within himself that he felt he had to bully and yell at patients and staff to make himself feel good. Creep! Anyway... (sorry, bad memories!)

He had me on the same as you, the long acting Oxy. Before that he tried me on the Patch and Meth and both were just too much for me. So the Oxy was my 3rd try on meds, so he was just prescribing a few days at a time to make sure it worked ok on me (it didn't-Norco has been the only thing I've ever been able to take). Well, he'd have me come in the morning of my last day of the prescription being out-which I hated, especially if you read a post I wrote a few weeks ago about 'How early do you get your refill?'. So I and I've got my (at the time) 1 year old son and he's wanting to shut and open the door to the outside and the receptionists were giving me dirty looks, and I'm not one to distrupt a business, so even though I was the only patient there, I told him I would wait right outside (it's not in a big building, just a medical plaza with each office's door opening to a courtyard outside) and let my toddler son run around and asked if they can just stick their head out when it's my turn. I usually try to get a friend to watch my kids for me when I go to the appointment, but they had scheduled me last minute since it was my last day on the medication. Basically, they called me that morning, told me to come in by 10am and I'd just see the doctor real quick, so he can give me my prescription since they can't call it in. So I had to bring my youngest with me since it was last minute. Anyway, I'm outside for what seems like forever, probably 45 minutes. I see the doctor walk out of the office, walk right past me with briefcase in hand and head to his car. I called out to him, told him they told me to come in this morning to see him to get my RX and he got the usual attitude, "I'm sorry, I'm on my way to surgury, you're going to have to come back Monday." I was flabbergasted, did they just not tell him THEY scheduled me and I was waiting? I guess a simple, "I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were here/comming in, I can't visit with you right now, but let me write you a prescription to last you until Monday when I can see you" would have been too polite for him. I was about in tears, he acted like I was holding up his whole world, and it had only been like 15 seconds! I just quickly told him he only wrote me enough meds to last me until today and what am I supposed to do? He said in the rudest way, "Sorry! I'm late-I have to leave." and he got in his car and drove away. I was just standing there like, "Whaaaa? What just happened?" I went back into his office and was in tears by then, partly because I didn't know what to do with the meds situation and partly because he was so mean to me! His nurse, who really had always been nice to me told me to come into the room with her. She told me she would do anything she could if she had that option, but she didn't have any control. She told me to go see my PCP and see if they can prescribe me something for a few days, in the meantime, she can sneak me one Duragesic patch she had laying around which could hold me over for a few days (in case my PCP can't help me) until I can come back in Monday-but to NOT tell the doctor. Poor thing, she started crying too, saying how rude he was to her alot and you just live with it because it's a job and she needs it. I soon left that jerk, used him long enough for meds until I found someone new (turns out my son's Ortho Surgeon was in the same medical complex as him, a few doors down, heard I was going there, asked me NOT to go back to that doctor and told me he'd start taking care of me). There should be a special place in h-e-double-L for people like that.

My day got worse, though. I called my PCP from my cell phone in the van before even going home since I was over in that part of town. I was hoping to get in sometime soon. They told me my regular doctor was out of town, but they had an appointment with another doctor in the practice within an hour. I had never been to him, but that was fine. My PCP knew about my back/neck history, in fact he was the one who originally was treating it and got me started on the treatment of Vicodin, etc. It was after a few months and questionable MRI's he referred me to a PM Doctor. So I knew everything was documented at their office and they'd understand. I get there and I guess this other doctor was came to work on the same bitter boat that the PM Doctor rode that morning. He was horrible. He treated me like a drug seeker. I had brought my Prescription bottle with me-empty-so he can see when it was prescribed, how many days, see that I am indeed out. The nurse at the PM Doctors office said my PCP can call her and she'll be glad to explain what happened with the other doctor so I don't look like I'm seeking drugs. He basically insulted me, told me if I wasn't so "heavy" (at the time I was 20lbs overweight, I'm only 5'2" and was about 145 lbs. then) I wouldn't have all these back problems, wouldn't have sleep apnea (which I've had all my life and it had nothing to do with this appointment), told me I was messing up my life taking these "drugs" and it's no different that shooting up heroin. He said mabye if I could "actually work out" (he had no idea I go to Curves 2-3x a week), there would be no back pain. Now I'm crying. I can't take it anymore. Not that there is a sterotype for a drug seeker, I know alot of people from different backgrounds/social circles/nationalities/genders do it, but, honestly, I'm the last person that WOULD do that to begin wtih, but definetly do look like I could. Here I am, an early 30 stay at home mom, toting my toddler around in my minivan with my Air Force husband in my fancy hot shot bling and clothes (read: shirts on sale at Kohl's, lol) and I was just SHOCKED! Almost speechless! He said he's write me a weeks worth of Vicoden, which was fine with me, but would NEVER write a prescription for Oxy, he could get "arrested" for that. ??? It just makes me so mad when doctors of all people are misinformed on Chronic Pain and Pain Management. And not only being misinformed, but acting like they DO know it all by acting like it's an illegal substance. What's worse is ever since that day, my regular PCP has acted very distant from me the few times I've been in. He used to be nice and sympathetic toward my pain, but for the few times I've been in (I've had strep throat twice for instance and a sinus infection) and I've asked if he could give me Tylenol with Codeine to help me sleep since I was up all night, it was in instant "NO", whereas he had never been that way before. I'm not sure what his "colleague" told him or if he red flagged my chart, or what. It's really upset me.

I'm sorry this is so long, your story just brought back so many memories for me of that horrible day. Just wanted to let you know you're not alone, I'm sure it's happened to more of us than it should have. The only advice I have is up in the first paragraph, which isn't very much I know. I hope everything turns out for you. Please let us know, ok? I'll be thinking of you!

StMishl
03-21-2005, 08:30 PM
Thank you very much. I am really ready to scream! :eek: The nurse hadn't called in the meds, so I ended up at the pharmacy, (thank goodness I had my empy bottle) and the pharm. said she hadn't called it in yet. I called her back, and it had "slipped her mind". She finally called while I was waiting, (60 hydrocodone/apap 5/500 - generic Vicodin). I filled it then called her back and asked why so many if only to get me through until tomorrw when the dr can refill the oxy?? She says that since I have the Vicodin I DON'T NEED THE OXY, ITS THE SAME STUFF, JUST TAKE THE VICODIN AS DIRECTED" and that the doctor will discuss the oxy refill at my next appt (which was supposed to be today but is now Friday- I was going to ask about changing to a different LA med. now i'm scared as obviously they have no clue what they are doing!!)

I appreciate the suggestions as to asking for the triplicate copy - I hadn't thought of that. I contimplated the ER on Friday evening when it got really bad (I thought I could go to the ER in the hospital where my surgery was done) but was really afraid of being labled "drug seeking". I kept thing, what if it worse and I've already used up my "go to the ER card"... (kind of like a "get out of jail free"-- It was bad, but bad enough to be accused of just looking for drugs?

OK, so my question is this... the doctor will be back in tomorrw and obviously I need some way of finding out if he is the one suddenly deciding I don't need the oxycontin (which makes no sense as he just "bumped" my doe to 20/10/20) or if he just has a bad gatekeeper/nurse.

At this point, now that I have lived thru the worse of this (withdrawl, etc...) and now that I have the vicodin, I can probably make it to Friday, at which point I want to demand a new MRI (as he has avoided that one, usually just drugging me up and sending me along with "be patient"), a perscription of the oxycontin I have had (OR a replacement LA med), a back up med and a referal to a pain clinic. I also want a plan for what he expects me to do in the event he goes AWOL when my script runs out (a back-up plan isn't out of the question is it??). I guess its time I step up to the plate, and become a more demanding customer.

Thanks for the support guys,

Michelle

StMishl
03-21-2005, 08:43 PM
Nae Nae,
I swear you must be my cosmic twin :angel: Reading your email reminded me exactly of me! I am now scared to see my PCP doctor, who has been with me thru thick and thin, because (like you) she was out and had another doctor covering. I left a message, trying to explain what was going on, explaining they could check with the nurse at the back surgeons, etc, but I didn't even get a courtesy of a return phone call.

It makes me wonder if underneath it all, if even the doctors we consider "good" just don't understand that i'm not talking pain as in a headache, or cramps, but CANNOT FUNCTION pain. Without my meds (and here I have had a weekend to test this theory) I have a hard time functioning. I'm not sure how much was withdrawl or how much was pain, but I ended up doing nothing because even sitting at the computer was too much (why I posted this today not Friday). I slept probably close to 15 hrs each day, just because at least when I was asleep I wan't in pain.

Thank you for posting your "me toos", even with a husband who trys to understand, it is hard to NOT feel like a drug addict ("If I just tried harder I could live with the pain"), hearing from you all reminds me I am not alone....

Thank you.

NaeNae
03-22-2005, 04:30 AM
Awww..Michelle, I'm glad I helped! Here I was thinking, I probably just bored her to death! And hello to my new cyber twin! :wave: I've got one of those husbands as well. He means well, takes care of me when I need it and is so supportive, but he is one that won't even take Tylenol for a headache!

You do sound like you are in the middle of withdrawls. When that happened to me, besides having no energy and wanting to sleep, I didn't want to do anything. The stuff I usually like, like being on the computer or scrapbooking, I ddin't even want it near me!

I'm glad you at least got some Vicodin to hold you over until Friday. I would definetly say the nurse is the problem in all this. For her to say Vicodin and Oxy are the same drugs-and you can just take either one and you'll be fine-is nonsense! I would bring that up with him on Friday. Or ask her, if they are the same, why can she just call in a prescription on Vicodin, but not Oxy? That would stump her! At least she called in eough, so mabye you can save them for backup?

I hope you can talk to him about backup, but I see your concerns. I feel like doctors like this tend to push our "planning ahead" reasoning aside. It's funny how in a way, all doctors are the same.

I need to get to bed, it's almost 2:30am and I'm so tired :yawn: , I have to get up in a few hours to get the kids ready for school and I'm so tired..I literally cannot see straight! Let me know how you're feeling tommorow (Tuesday). I hope the Vicodin will help with some of the w/d and pain! I'll be thinking of you!

StMishl
03-22-2005, 11:49 AM
Thanks,
I am feeling a bit better but HIGH! I hate vicodin because it makes me feel loopy and light headed (why does it cause this when the oxy never does??). I just don't understand why some meds make me feel so different then others when they are essentialy the same narcotic? The vicodin is taking a bit of the pain away, but I am still really hurting, (I just care less) and my pain levels are going "up and down" alot faster then usual... I am eagerly awaiting Friday to get back on the oxycontin that levels the pain to my more tolerable level..

My hubby is the type who will get hurt at work (he is a plant manager at a dairy processing plant) and will just "work through it". You have to hold him down to force a tylonol thru his lips. He's seen a dr 1x since we've been married and that was when he (ironically) had really bad back spasms and we went to the er. He would always rather be left alone to suffer in privacy, where as Id rather have someone rub my back and take care of me.

My daughters think its funny that Ive been sleeping so much this week... Ive been working 8-12 then coming home and napping... then bed midnightish... My sleeping is so messed up. I hope things get normal again soon. :yawn:

ugh! :eek:
Hope everyone has a good day.





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