Hi Lisa, Marilyn & Everyone Else,

I hope all of you are doing well. Sorry I haven't been online for awhile - had some computer problems and had to wait for my brother to finish his overtime stint to get here to help me out (I'm electronically challenged! lol).

My husband is swearing up & down that he has quit the oxy cold turkey since late-January. He told me how the withdrawals were horrible for two weeks. He claims to have flushed any medications that he had remaining, yet I found an empty bottle from vicodin that was filled on 3/12/05. He claims to have flushed them along with the others...I question that because the prescription had been so recently purchased. He has been adamantly insisting on doing a drug screen at home to prove to me that he is clean.

Now for my question....he still suffers from severe insomnia. Would he be experiencing this two months after quitting? He said he only sleeps an hour a night, if he's lucky. Over the counter sleep aids do nothing for him, neither has a couple of drinks of Seagram's 7. He dozed off here & there a couple of times while I was there visiting and he seems to be having involuntary leg movements...jerking movements in his legs that he was later unaware of. He is also having sweats/chills. He said these symptoms are not from coming off the oxy, that they are due to the back pain that has returned. I don't know what to make of it all. Everything I've read has mentioned a few weeks of this, not 2+ months. But then again, I'm hardly 'experienced'.

So any enlightenment that any of you can provide will be appreciated. If he's being honest, I will continue to be supportive of his efforts even though we are in the process of a divorce. I just do not feel up to being buffalo'd with all of this. He keeps mentioning the drug screen - I will probably have him take one.

Best to all of you...I have a lot of catching up to do on this board to see how all of you are doing.

Luv,
Scared Wife

[QUOTE=Scared Wife]

>My husband is swearing up & down that he has quit the oxy cold turkey since late-January. Now for my question....he still suffers from severe insomnia. He dozed off here & there a couple of times while I was there visiting and he seems to be having involuntary leg movements...jerking movements in his legs that he was later unaware of. He is also having sweats/chills. <

Hi scared wife,
These symptoms are all things that happen frequently during heavy narcotic use...insomnia is very common as is heavy sweating and the leg jerks.....ahhhhhh I know them well. Also the nods. My dear sweet girl do not let him lie to you. I do not believe for one instant that he is clean and sober. All you need do is get to Al-Anon...speak to them, not him. Please?? Have had you in my heart.
Sparkles
do you hear that clear, small voice inside??? it does not lie to you

I agree that he is lying to you. All the night sweats or day sweats-either one they are all signs of addiction. Do not buy into this as he knows what buttons to push. He may do a drug screen at home but that doesn't mean anything. There are many ways to beat them.....I have. You say you are in the process of a divorce-that tells me a lot. He has lied to you before....I am assuming. Just be careful and watch your own back.....Kahlia

I still have jerking movements in my sleep, drives my wife nuts. But its normal, this is the body reacting to the absence of opiates in the system. Its normal and a good sign, they will eventually go away from what my doc tells me. As for the pill bottle you found and his claim that he flushed them? Hmmmm, you know him best, but it sounds fishy to me, I made the same statement to my wife when I was trying to quit, but still using in secret. Just keep encouraging him, and if he volunteers to do a drug screen, I'd take him up on that offer.

[QUOTE=DCV]I still have jerking movements in my sleep, drives my wife nuts. But its normal, this is the body reacting to the absence of opiates in the system. Its normal and a good sign, they will eventually go away from what my doc tells me.

Sorry, but jerking is also a sign of heavy narcotic use...it's nothing to ignore
SS

Hello Everyone,

Thank you so very much for your input. I am so skeptical of what my husband has been claiming and at least I know from your replies that I am not being overly suspicious/paranoid. Things just don't add up and as one of you put it, I need to listen to that little voice inside of me. I did notice that for quite some time, his temperment seemed more rational. Last night he was 'off' again...and telling me that I'M the evasive, secretive one. I didn't even bother to go there.

In my opinion, there's a reason why he ditched going to the med center as we'd agreed the night before. He feels his insomnia, etc., is due to the back pain returning & a possible infection - not from withdrawals because they should not last more than a couple of weeks in his opinion. I'm thinking it could be both. Even with pain, your body eventually gives out and you pass out to finally sleep at least a little bit, don't you? I even left work early to take him to the med center to see if he does have another infection in his back so that he could get antibiotics for it and possibly something mild to help him sleep. He opted instead to get a sleeping pill from a friend - yet never bothered to call me and tell me the plan had changed. So needless to say, I was not a happy camper last night. I felt as though I'd been taken for granted - after listening to him complaining for the past two weeks, getting him to agree to seek medical attention and then finding out 30 minutes before the med center closed that he'd decided hours earlier that he wasn't going.

I am trying to be supportive, loving and caring. Yet when I do, I somehow come up as the 'bad guy'. He told me that I always 'dictate' our relationship. How that came out when my only intention was to help him is beyond me and, to be honest, I resent it. Oh well, enough of my bitterness. Guess it comes with the territory though when you feel you are being lied to but can't be sure. In the meantime, I'm just going to keep the usual distance between us.

I don't know how much those drug screens cost and I'm nickel & diming it each day as it is. However, I may just 'surprise' him with one out of the blue since it was his idea in the first place. Maybe that way it'll be tougher for him to beat, since some of you say it's possible to do that.

I will try to check in with all of you later this evening. I hope all of you are doing well each day. Thank you again for all of your help in keeping me levelheaded and honest with myself.

Luv,
Scared Wife

[QUOTE=Scared Wife]
I don't know how much those drug screens cost and I'm nickel & diming it each day as it is. However, I may just 'surprise' him with one out of the blue since it was his idea in the first place. Maybe that way it'll be tougher for him to beat, since some of you say it's possible to do that.

Hi,
You know, it would seem as if he would be pulling you right into his game, playing by his rules, if you were to show interest in the drug screen. If I were you (and I'll bet many an Al-Anoner would agree) I would never mention the screen again. Just go about your life and take care of YOU. Even in requesting a drug screen, he is getting your attention and he doesn't deserve it. Don't become entrenched in HIS drug problem. Let it be his...let him have to accept the consequences. And this latest indignity...of having so little respect for your time and effort to take him somewhere? Pfftt...would make me so mad.......
SS

..................

Hi SheSparkles,

Oh believe me - I was livid over the med center thing. We'd agreed Sunday night (By the way, I hope everyone had a great Easter!) that since the place was closed that night, I would take him the next night. He was adamant about me being 'present' so that I could see for myself how doctors push narcotics onto people even when they don't want them and to possibly get a drug screen there. I didn't comment much about the screen - just told him that was entirely up to him & left it at that. I had told him then for him to call me when he was leaving his new job the next day and that if it was before my quitting time, I'd try to leave early as well...thinking that after working all day on no sleep, it might shave some time off for him with all the time you wait in those places.

He called me at 4pm yesterday & said he was just leaving work. I asked if he still wanted to go to the med center & he said he did but that since he was filthy, he wanted to go home & shower first. I said no problem & reminded him the place closes at 8pm. I left work 45 minutes early & tried to call him back to let him know that...I got his voice mail. I found that odd since it was such a short time after he'd called. I looked past that, went home (I'm at my mom's) to shower & eat myself. At 5:45 I called him again. He was at some 'buddy's' house getting his windshield wiper fixed. I was irritated at this 'excuse' because my husband builds racing engines, so why can't he fix his own wiper and at a more convenient time?! There was no rain in the forecast. He said he'd be on his way shortly...I again reminded him the place closes at 8. Finally at 6:30 I realized there was no way we'd make it in time and quite frankly at that point I didn't care either. Fool that I was, I proceeded to deliver ham & Easter eggs to him...he finally rolled into the driveway at 7:30 and said his 'buddy' had found a sleeping pill for him but he didn't want to mention that over a cell phone in case if someone else might be able to hear the dialogue (police I assume?). I thanked him for letting me know the med center plan had changed & for letting me leave work early for nothing, rush around at home like an idiot - again for nothing. All so he could get a 'mystery' pill that for all he knew, could turn out to be something he's allergic to or worse. :nono:

He couldn't understand why I was angry. I was then told that I expect him to 'live around' me. Pfft - hey no problem anymore dear man. Next time you need any sort of help, call that good buddy and maybe if he's sober enough to lend assistance, he can take care of you and waste his time & gas. Know what I mean?! That's how I was seething over the matter. His excuse was that he can't afford a med center right now...I come back with the fact that he's still on my medical insurance which would pick up 80% of the cost. He doesn't 'want' to use my insurance since we're in the process of a divorce. Then the doctors offices are suddenly all 'pill mills' and he can't go to another one anyway until he gets his discharge papers from the last one that kicked him out of the pain mgmt program. What a never-ending maze this man exists in. No wonder he gets migraines! ;)

So I'm just going to sit back and do as I have been...take care of myself and let the chips fall where they may with him. I do not believe wholeheartedly that he is clean & I pray I'm wrong. His stories are always all over the place. I find it hard to believe that someone who desperately wants to stay off strong medication would go just two weeks ago to get a vicodin prescription filled only to come home and flush them down the toilet. Where's the logic in that? I also can't help but see the old familiar fingerpointing at me for the very things he seems to be doing.

So thanks again for your input...it is soooo like my attitude. lol I love this man to pieces & care for him dearly. I don't expect perfection...I can forgive a lie when it's admitted, but I feel he is only playing games ... not just with me but with himself. It's like he's luring me back into his life and feels he can 'fix' us with a whole new set of lies. Well, I'm off to catch up on some other posts and offer my encouragement wherever I can. Please continue to help me keep educated on this stuff. I really appreciate it!

Luv,
Scared Wife

PS - maybe if some of you 'hear' his version yourselves, you might pick up on anything I may not be catching onto - or you may even be able to help me decipher how honest he's being. I'd posted to Dr. Joel Nathan's message board trying to get help in distinguishing if his symptoms were back-related or long-term withdrawal. I'd told my husband I was doing so and checked for a reply with him present. He seemed to get defensive at the dr.'s response (the dr. hinted that he could be using again) and my husband posted back to the guy the next day. If you're familiar with the web site, my subject line in my post is Please Help Us...last I checked, the doctor hadn't replied to him yet (& may not), but he signed himself The Dipper/Dabber or something like that. Just in case if anyone's interested....

Hey Scared Wife
It has been a while since I'd seen you on the board but that doesn't mean that I haven't been thiking of you. You sound really great, not so blue and meloncholy and it is so good to hear from you. I don't hear much of a change in hubby though, well he may be trying but I'm like you there is so much about the time thing that just doesn't figure up. If he quit the end of January then why would there be one filled on 3/5/05, nope just don't add up. But the symptoms you mention could very well still be bugging him, especially the insomnia seems like thats the last thing to go except for the cravings.............you feel like they will last forever, and they probably do to some extent. I've never stayed off of them long enough to find out. I could be wrong and this is just reading between the lines...........but it seems like he may be having too easy a time with it, and you are probably are being kind and not mentioning that he feels crappy all the time. And he started a new job............he might just be tougher than me, but I am not a pleasant person to be around during WD, and the idea of starting a new job during..........or even shortly thereafter is not high on my list of things I'd like to do. I know he has to work and maybe he can work off of the knowing that he must work some people can..........I'm not one of them though!
They sell those little drug tests online for a little bit of nothing and I'm sure you can find them around town, there are so many parents doing that these days.
Sorry about such negativism about your B/F, I hope that I am wrong and he is making an attempt to get off those things, does he actually need them for pain or is it strictly for a buzz? I probably knew that at one time but I have slept since the and you know what they say about us old folks.
Honey, it was so good to hear from you again I had been thinking about you and wondering how things were going. Keep listening to that little voice inside you we don't give it the attention it need sometimes.
Hope you had a wonderful Easter and give your Mom a big old hug for me.
Been missing you,
Marilyn

Hey Lisa,
You there? Haven't talked with you in awhile and wondering how you are doing? Did the kids have a good Easter
Hugs
Marilyn

Hi Marilyn,

I have missed you and everyone else so much! Glad to hear from you and I hope that all is going well for you. My computer crashed at home and I try to limit my personal use of my computer at work to avoid trouble there.

I do feel so much stronger and I have you and everyone else on this board to thank for that. I spent some evenings sitting in on NA meetings with my friend's daughter and learned a great deal there as well. This board has been so educational for me. And I cherish the friends that I feel I've made here.

The concept of a divorce does still depress me because I do still love my husband...or the person I know he is capable of being. I have continued to keep my distance, take care of me first and go on from there. When I do see him, I pay particular attention (without being obvious) to his pupils, mannerisms, etc. He continues to swear up and down how much he loves me. I have to believe that to some extent because he continues to keep me somewhat involved in his life (in a normal fashion) and even invited me to have lunch with him at his new job & to introduce me to his new boss.

However, I cannot be blinded by my feelings for him and will continue to let him prove himself without me hounding him to do so. It's up to him at this point on where we go from here. I do intend to buy a drug screen & will not be giving any hint of doing one until I show up with it. My friend's daughter suggested that I not let him do it alone in the bathroom because she said people tend to add bleach or toilet water to alter the results. If you or anyone else knows of any other things I need to be cautious of when it comes to a drug test, please let me know.

Enough about my drama. :) Marilyn, how are YOU doing? :) I hope that you had a wonderful Easter. As usual, my mom stuffed us all full of her wonderful food...ham, sausage, kielbasa, potato salad, pickled eggs and homemade Easter bread. Then, of course, there were all the great desserts...apple cobbler, a lamb cake, cinnamon rolls! So let me know how you are doing these days. And please continue to help me keep my head on straight. It has been a true blessing for me to talk with you.

Luv,
Scared Wife

Hi SW,
I went and read his letter to Dr. Nathan. I stand by my prior assessment. You take care of you. He sounds like he is a real challenge to go up against.
Get to your Al-Anon meetings. That is my best advice.
Love to you,
SS

Hi SheSparkles,

How was your day today? Hope you had a great one. :) My day at work was rather hectic as usual and I was chomping at the bit to get home and enjoy some of that sunny, 70 degree weather we're finally getting.

Thanks for checking out my husband's letter to the doctor. It is a relief to hear that you have not changed your opinion on this situation...because I haven't changed mine either & felt SLIGHTLY guilty for that at first. The defensiveness in his post seemed so obvious to me, yet I needed to hear I'm not being overly judgemental/critical either.

I'm continuing to focus on ME for the first time in a very long time. At first it seemed weird to finally be able to visit a girlfriend for an hour after work or go to a weekly craft class without being made to feel selfish and neglectful. I feel more secure mentally/emotionally as a result and no longer feel so caught up in someone else's continual dramas that I cannot change or control. I have also been more motivated to tackle my new responsibilities I have been given with my job.

So thanks again for your advice and opinion. It's something I value very much. I will look into my local Al-Anon meetings, too. I'd gone to one several years ago when I dated someone with a drinking problem, but I'm sure I should've attended more and given the meetings more of a chance. The one I attended seemed more like a prayer group and nothing more, which wasn't what I was looking for at the time (plus I'd done so much praying prior to that meeting - I wanted to hear others talk of situations similar to mine & how best to live in spite of them). Yet I admit I didn't give it a fair chance or look around for another meeting. Guess I'd better get the phone book out.

Luv,
Scared Wife

[QUOTE=Scared Wife]The defensiveness in his post seemed so obvious to me, yet I needed to hear I'm not being overly judgemental/critical either.

A perfect statement of the situation at hand. You are not being overly anything negative...if anything you are being amazing tolerant. Stay steadfast...............
Love,
SS

Hi SW, Marilyn and everyone else....
SW....i just think you should keep taking care of yourself and listen to your gut instincts on this one. It is so hard to "trust" an addict once again. I just think he is still "dabbling".....maybe not as much, but still using.
he is going to turn all of this around on you once again, if you continue to be at his beck and call. I would go back to ignoring, and like you said if he needs something, maybe his "buddy" that was so nice to help him with his windshield wipers can help him with his drug problems too!!! LOL
You need some support too! You keep going to NA, or try out an al-anon meeting, i really think you would get alot out of that meeting. It would really help you get some face-to-face support from women that have been there. I have, in the past, went to a support group for women that are or have been abused. It is really good for the self-esteem and i built some pretty strong relationships with other women there. That would be a good idea too. It is for people with spouses that either cheat, use drugs or alcohol in excess, or mentally/ physically abuse their spouses. It helped me put things into perspective for me and learn how to care about ME....
Just a thought.....
My Easter was good, my 3 yr old just came down with his FIRST cold/ear infection. I didn't even know about the ear infection, the doctor looked in his ears yesterday during a routine physical and low and behold, DOUBLE EAR INFECTION and border-line strep throat....YUCK!!!! I guess it is good though that he made it 3 years without being sick at all!!! No daycare that is probably why.
This weekend is my 5 th wedding anniversary. Actually it is on....April Fool's Day,, i should've known then.....LOL
We are going to Salem, MA and staying in a honeymoon suite for Saturday and Sunday. I love it up there, some awesome shops!!! Lots of witchcraft, wicca....LOVE IT!!!
It is going to be weird to be alone with my hubby. I almost feel uncomfortable about it, like a first date or something. Kind of nervous, but yet excited, if that makes any sense. We haven't been alone in years.....
This week i have been going tanning, it really helped to do something for ME for once.....plus it makes my skin look 100% better!!!
O.k......check back in when you guys get a chance.
I need some encouragement for this weekend....i feel like a dam teenager :rolleyes:
love,
LISA

Hi Lisa,

Sorry to hear about your 3 year old being under the weather. It must be a bad year for those ear infections...my mom came down with one as well for the first time in her life.

I sure hope that you and your husband have a nice get-away together. I know exactly what you mean about it feeling weird & uncomfortable - like a first date. That's how it feels with me on the few occasions that I spend time with my husband. On one hand, it feels as though he's trying to get his life back in order but on the other hand, it also seems like they are all half-hearted attempts. So I have stayed steadfast in worrying about myself first and foremost...not making personal sacrifices for his benefit because I do not see him making any for me. Nor do I expect him to either. I am not convinced that he is totally clean and intend to present him with a drug screen without warning. On a personal note, I feel as though I've turned a major corner here...I no longer sit around dwelling on what may or may not be going on with my husband or fret over his 'dramas' that I cannot prevent or fix. I feel so much healthier mentally that it isn't even funny. Again, I owe a great deal of thanks to everyone here on this board for helping me to get there.

Your travel destination sounds really neat. My friend's mom always loved visiting the Maine area. Some day I really hope to get in a trip to that area. I know I loved Ocean City, MD...especially Assateague Island with the wild ponies (I'm a horse freak). Anyway, happy anniversary and have a wonderful time this weekend. You surely deserve it!! :) Be sure to write and let me know how the weekend turns out for you.

Luv,
Scared Wife

Lisa..........Boy, let me stay off this board for a few days and all sorts of things happen. Have a great time in Salem...........and in the Honeymoon Suite..........you go girl. Enjoy and know we will be thinking of you and wishing you good and happy thoughts.
My Best to You
Marilyn

To the scared wife"PEASE READ ALL" i can and will feel for you i am a recovering addict i have been clean now for 4 months after 4 years of using oxycotine,loratabs,morphine. first can i say this,when it got to the end of my use i would say everyday, i hate these things running my life i am quiting. when i would detox or withdraw i was all right for a couple of days after 3 or 4 days of being physically sick my mind would talk to me i would end up getting somthing to make me feel better untill the next time i withdawled. not that i am defending your husband at all but i believe a true addict will do things they would not normally do ever.i have 5 kids and a wife who luvs me but i almost lost them. i would tell here up and down no i have quit, time would go on and she would find out i was still on them.I could not physically quit at home i could not take the withdraws. the termoil that you go through is and was to much for me.and every time you withdraw the next time is worse and longer then the time before,maybe only a little but worse untill i could not do it at all.I dont think i could tell you or make you understand how much my family means to me but the pills, i believe like i said make you lie,say,act,feel,love and think wrongly. It is like me and my wife say for the past 4 years my wife has been living with not her husband but a stranger pretending to be her husband. I was in the psyciactric hospital for 8 day they put me on suboxone for the pain pills, librium for the shakes and convulsion and sweats, and clonidine to help your body detox faster.8 days to detox. and with in that 8 days time,remember like at home i would get exterimly sick and would be to the point to were i could not detox but because of constant care and the doctors , i did not get that sick. I had night sweats and the runns but really acually no pain or physical withdraw.my doctor was going to release me on the 4 and 5 day. but i asked him if i could stay just so i could be sure i wasnt going to get sick and relapse.now let me remind you and i am sure you already know this,you have got to want to quit, yes the fuzzy warm feeling is great but you have to want somthing else in life better or YOU WILL LOSE EVERYTHING.then when i got out i still felt weird i still had night sweats,for a while yes still have insomnia but the body shakes go away once you have trully detoxed yourself.For the insomnia I take a nonnarcotinc called trazodone 50 mg. it used to be an anxiety pill in the 70's but they figured out it was putting people to sleep and turned it into a sleeping pill.Perfect for a person who can never ever again take a painkillers EVER again.Scared WIFE, i am crying for you , and scared for you, and am really scared for you husband i have BEEN THERE, i will pray for you and your family.You are living the same sitchuwation "or how ever you spell it"as I AND MY WIFE AND MY 5 CHILDREN WERE. If it werent for my wife fighting for us and for me it would have been easy for me not "her at all" to walk away and let me do my own thing with no consicuence exept for me dying and then its the end.My wife could have left me easy she is very pretty and clean and could find another man easy.she would not have to worry about money just raising 5 wonderful kids by her self untill she remarried.but there is ONLY so much fighting you can do. I am SOOOO GLAD I GOT ON THIS SIGHT and read this about you and your family.because i have so wanted to tell my story not only to help maybe someone else but to help me to get it out.To tell About the crappy stuff i have done to myself my family and freinds, and i know now that my scared wife was not alone.
I have written this in faith that maybe it will not only help you in your in your decisions
but maybe help your husband to.
DONOT let him continue to destroy his life and others.
I believe that it can only go so far and then you should make the aternative decision what ever that might me!
Let me say again that i love my wife with all of my heart, but if she would have made the actuall decision to leave, because i didnt change, so that she could try to better her life and my kids lives she would have made the right choice and thats all that could have been done!!!!!!
My wife is a wonderfull kind hearted person and is fun to talk to if you want someone to talk to or ask for advice in this matter. I will be watching this and please if you want to let me know how your husband is doing and you for that matter.
OH YA, my wife luvvvss to talk on the darn on the phone or write emails
P.S. an addict will allways lie to you as long as they are using no matter what the price
thankyou for listening to me i did need this very badly
oh ya i am not saying he does not have back proplems but when you are on painpills they shrink the blood vessels in the back, so when you are coming of them your back will hurt for a week or so after untill the blood vessels go back to normal.

Dear Chances,

Thank you so much for writing to me. Congratulations on staying clean for 4 months!! :) Please continue to keep up the great work. You have at least 6 great reasons to stay with it.

Your story does sound very similar to mine. I spoke with my husband (we've been living apart since last May) over the weekend. He was complaining about the back pain, but the insomnia seems to be letting up (he slept4 hours Friday night & 6 hours Saturday night). He mentioned that doctors are only going to offer him oxycontin for his pain and that if it doesn't let up soon, he will have no choice but to do so. I called his bluff a little by mentioning that I have read about non-narcotic painkillers and was surprised that he wasn't showing an interest in trying one of them. I said, "You seem to keep mentioning that oxycontin. So far, since you have quit taking them, your thinking/communicating is much more rational. I am not afraid to be myself around you like I have been for the past year. While you may not share my opinion on some things, it is a relief that you are no longer 'attacking' me for thinking/feeling differently about a given issue. For a change, I am no longer reluctant to talk to you about anything...and here you are, the only solution I hear coming out of your mouth is this oxycontin..."

Even 3 months ago, I'd have been too afraid to speak so freely with him. I am still not convinced that he is totally clean, although he swears up & down that I can drug screen him any time I choose to. I will be doing that at some point, can't afford to buy anything like that right now as I have to pay my attorney an additional $300 before the dissolution paperwork can be filed.

I will try to post again to you later today or this evening. Please check back with me and let me know how you are doing. You wife sounds like a terrific person. Please do not forget how she has stuck by you through your battles. It takes a very strong person to be able to weather a storm such as ours. Too many others would feel it's easier to throw in the towel and walk away. For some reason, neither your wife nor I seem to be able to do that. I see that you have a deep appreciation for her as a result and can only hope one day my husband will appreciate me. In the meantime, I do need to worry about myself and protect myself...financially, emotionally and mentally. It's not always easy but then again, as my old-timer dad used to tell me, "pain that doesn't kill you will only make you stronger." I have a deep respect for my late father and I do know he would be disappointed in me right now for allowing myself to be a doormat. Yet I also know he'd be proud of my 'can't quit' attitude that he instilled in me himself.

Take care of yourself and that great family! I will talk with you later...I would like to talk with you further about some questions I have.

Take care,
Scared Wife