Bad Breath has changed my personality: Part 5 [Archive]

Moderator BAC

04-12-2005, 09:55 AM

Bad Breath has changed my personality: Part 4 is continued here.

Please remember to read, know and follow the posting rules.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Moderator BAC

Sponsor

denny33

04-12-2005, 10:07 AM

Whey hey a new thread....

Sorry to sound ignorant but what does LPR stand for?

:cool:

Garrett123

04-12-2005, 10:34 AM

Well Thread Number 4 didn't last long... onto Number 5!

Well, to some of you that have mentioned I sound really depressed. I am , but more so utterly frustrated and crazy inside. Thanks for the support and thoughts, I would never do anything "bad" Just having a little trouble dealing with the present and the past of humiliation of bb.

LPR is like Acid reflux... It has been linked to bb. From what I have read, it does have some of the symtoms I have ...

dry throat
tonsil stones
bitter taste
BB ( of course )

To find out if you truly have it, I think you have to hav a PH test done by an ENT.
Some things to do to alleviate it are:
Adult lifestyle changes to prevent GERD and LPR
Avoid eating and drinking within two to three hours prior to bedtime
Do not drink alcohol
Eat small meals and slowly
Limit problem foods:
Caffeine
Carbonated drinks
Chocolate
Peppermint
Tomato and citrus foods
Fatty and fried foods
Lose weight
Quit smoking
Wear loose clothing

Ginger do you have this, or think you might have? It could very well be a possiblity for me. Good Post!

Zoott

04-12-2005, 03:44 PM

(Inferno81: The E.N.T that took out my tonsils had bad breath each of the 3 times I saw him, go figure...)

LOL. But seriuosly if my ENT had BB I would loose hope. It would tell me that he couldn't help me.

I have a question! Is there a lot of mucous produced in the throat aswell as the nasal passage? In my case PND seems excessive at times and the build up seems too rapid to all be coming down from the nose.

Noreaga

04-12-2005, 04:38 PM

@Thanatos: Haven’t got a girlfriend yet, but am dating a girl. Hopefully it’ll work out.

As for my meals. I eat lots of fat free yoghurt mixed with muesli (which is based on oat instead of wheat) with added honey, coconut, raisins etc. Furthermore lots of water, fruits (apples, kiwi’s, banana’s), bread with various grains in it and brown rice/seafish based recipes.
Trying to find the right balance between proteins and carbo hydrates. Especially need the carbs, because I play sports a lot.
The yoghurt does make me pass gas a lot. But I prefer smelling from the rear end instead of the front end…

I quit drinking tea, stopped eating all kinds of cookies (wheat) and avoid soft drinks (Cola etc. contains tons of sugar). Instead I mainly drink fruit juices without added sugars

Don’t understand why some people can’t eat any dairy without having bad breath while I can eat as much milk, cheese, eggs, yoghurt as I want to. Perhaps some of you have certain bb bacteria in your mouths that feed off the protein found in dairy while other people like me have bacteria that feed off sugar etc.

Quitting alcohol was difficult in the beginning, but it’s just a matter of getting used to it. It’s healthier anyway and when you go out at night, the next day your friends will be wasted and you won’t be.
Besides, a night of fun with alcohol isn’t worth it when you have horrible breath for the following days…while scraping your tongue like a maniac all the time. I believe scraping the tongue too much and/or to vigorous just makes the situation worse anyway, because the surface of the tongue only gets more roughened up and allows bacteria access within the tongue’s surface.

mya123

04-12-2005, 06:19 PM

This may be a silly Q but... is the tung gel ingredients in the blue package the same as the White/silver package. I really just want to know if it has zinc in it like the white package.

Also has anyone tried using Gly-Oxide Liquid Antiseptic Oral Cleanser? I was "passing thru " the oral products section of the grocery store and noticed this product. It is used for mouth ulcers/sores etc but I figure that maybe it can kill the little nasty bb buggers. Any info would be great.

Thanks

chloe_123

04-12-2005, 07:35 PM

Mya,
I've been using Gly-Oxide for awhile now. It's Carbonide Peroxide 10% for those of you who don't know it. It works great but doesn't last long for me. It also made my teeth sensitive to hot and cold.

chloe_123

04-12-2005, 07:38 PM

Sorry, that should read Carbamide Peroxide 10%.

Garrett123

04-13-2005, 09:55 AM

another question for the veteran clean dieters...

What do you think about eating Sushi? It is white rice though. I love it and could live off of it. This is something I could enjoy in a restaurant too.
thoughts?

Well I bought some OTC Prilosec ( acid reflux ), I am highly doubting it will help my bb, but maybe my indegestion. As mine is really bad. I get sour stomach from alot of foods, even veggies. I am taking enzymes too.

Xevius, did you start that clean diet thread yet? Just curious , I would be interested in sharing good food ideas....

Are you AO users still using it? will you keep using it?
Thanks-
G

ginger65

04-13-2005, 10:15 AM

LPR stands for Laryngo Pharyngeal Reflux and is as Garrett rightly says a form of acid reflux only unlike traditional Gerd there is often no symptom of heartburn. Also unlike Gerd the reflux continues through the esophaegus to the voice box, throat, mouth and the nasal cavity. Because the acidic level is lower than that needed to damage the esophaegus it is not felt there. A much decreased level of acid can cause damage to the larynx and pharynx which if left untreated for a long time can cause significant problems. Also unlike Gerd LPR usually happens when in an upright waking position throughout the day. Therefore raising the elevation of the bed can have limited effect.

Essentially depending on the existing balance of your oral flora this reflux which consists of stomach acid and bile can over a period of time significantly upset that delicate balance creating an anaerobic environment.
Lifestyle and dietary changes are believed to help in mild cases as is the use of ant acids or stronger Proton Pump Inhibitors but for those like me who are resistant to the meds and their side effects anti reflux surgery is the only option. Candida could conceivably be a factor as could the stomach bacterium H.Pyori (now thought the main cause of ulcerations) but more likely to be Hiatus hernia or poorly functioning Lower and/or Upper espohaegal sphincter (the valves that open to allow food in but should close to prevent acid going the other way).

The first real sign that this is happening is likely to be the symptom of globus - a real feeling of something being stuck in your throat. Not the intermittant experience from nerves or stress but something more permanent.
This can give you the strong urge to constantly clear your throat and more often than not the globus and the excess mucous will go hand in hand. Other atypical symptoms will be burning mouth and tongue, blocked nose, PND, mild stinging sensation in nostril, thick white tongue coating, bitter taste in back of throat, difficulty swallowing, hoarseness, sore throat and of course BB. If these symptoms do not present themselves early then enamel erosion can occur making any pre-existing dental problem worse. I experience more or less all of the above symptoms and believe the reflux corrossion brought the on set of tonsil stones and my ENT agrees.

I say I have probable LPR as I still have to get an Upper GI and 24 hr Ph monitor but the docs seem sure on the account of the inflammation to the pharynx tissue. If any of you have these symptoms and suspect this problem take a flash light and look beyond the uvula and see if there is any red or inflamed tissue. You may also see mucous clinging to this area. For me the globus and mucous are a mere irritation I could live with but the BB is hellish and I only hope this is the cause. The way I see it is that the daily introduction of acid and bile to my oral enviroment can do nothing but hinder the creation of a proper bacterial balance.

If anyone else is experiencing these symptoms with or without the BB there is a thread running on LPR. I will keep an interest in your posts but I am pursuing this possible causal route.

Hope this post helps.

Thanatos86

04-13-2005, 10:50 AM

The diet is still kicking my butt, lol. I have decreased the amount of rice (because I hate brown rice) and get more carbs from corn and beans. I'm still awaiting my yogurt maker and already recieved my yogurt starter. I'm also thinking about getting a bread maker.

The AO doesn't seem to be doing anything for me at all. Same goes for the Closys II sprays. I drenched my mouth and swished the Closys in my mouth and still it did very little.

My breath has shown improvement, but by the end of the day its horrible. I used to pop Spry Gum and mints all day at work but now I stopped to divert funds into the flushes, AO, etc.

I should be getting my case of ZOX mints soon. They seem to be the best mints for me. If I use them right after meals, I can tell a difference.

These past few days have been pretty bad. Because I haev not been masking my breath when it gets bad later in the day, I have to avoid people at work. They're begining to think that I'm very strange. The way I talk, the way I move away from them or try to play ventriloquist, the way I look away when talking and always make conversations brief - so brief that I don't give the an answer to their questions.

Thanatos86

04-13-2005, 10:54 AM

denny33

04-13-2005, 01:46 PM

I would probably give myself a 6 thantanos

Sometimes i cant taste anything (bad taste) but ive learned that doesnt always mean there is no smell.

I foolishly had toasted brown bread with a few slices of hard cheese :nono: (nothing else in the house!) the other morning and do i wish i never!
It left an awful taste and smell for ages even after brushing my teeth and tongue 3 times! so i will not be doing that again. Def had to be the cheese.

I find the brown rice a struggle as well, i have started putting a little chopped spring onion and some mixed pules into it whenever i have it, to give it flavour otherwise its like eating cardboard! I have also stuffed that mixture into half a large green capsicum pepper and put a little olive oil on it before roasting in foil till the pepper gets soft..was very nice i must say eatable at least. Give it a try.

gonna get a "power juicer" (channel 665 lol) so i can mix my own fresh fruit and veggie juices...have 1 every morn with the AO in it.

Keep the info coming

ciao4now guys

:wave:

blase2

04-13-2005, 02:29 PM

How would you all rate your breath on a scale of 1-10.

1 being situational breath that is not offensive enough to cause people to react.

10 being the most horrid, constant breath.

Honestly, I'm going to rate myself an 8.5.

My fifth day with *********. I've noticed a change in BB but PND has increased strangely. I strongly suspect a leaky gut (gut wall becoming porous) but i can't be bothered going down the glutamine and MSM route again.

I would give myself a 4 but sometimes I get 7 if I break my diet and stuff.

These days I'm just getting desperate - been single for too long. I would really like to know how people with BB started dating and got married. It is soo difficult for me to get it out of my head. I'm good looking and I get the eye from many women but this bloody problem has held me back. My friends (who know I have BB) keep pestering me to go and start dating but how? how? I can't get it out of my head.

blase2

04-13-2005, 02:31 PM

Are you AO users still using it? will you keep using it?
Thanks-
G

I stopped it as I'm doing the oxy - powder cleanse at the moment.

Garrett123

04-13-2005, 03:23 PM

I would rate myself a 7.5. Its pretty much constant I have a feeling.
I find even with there is a neutral feeling in my mouth, the smell remains.
Blase, I am just as frustrated, I woke up at 4 am this morning with it on my mind as well. I can't have a normal conversation with anyone these days, even my girlfriend. She hasn't made a comment lately about my bb.
So how did I get a girlfriend? Well believe me I went thru alot of humilation before I found her... girls turning away from me and such. I have lots of friends and just went out alot regardless of the past comments. She was a friend of friend, and we met for dinner one night. Hit if off... I do remember our second date, she offered me gum. BUT she must have fallen in love with me. She is even bringing up marriage. SO IT IS POSSIBLE> but and other BUT, its stressful trying to hide the utter pain it causes me. Its work hiding from the person you love that you have such a burden. I do think she knows, she notes when I talk like a vintriliquist, or me always chewing on gum, has seen all the products I use... But she still stays, sometimes I don't know why. My confidence and self esteem is a -10. I was sooooooo popular in High School, had all the confidence in the world, I went to college and BOOM, the bb started. I had already gone thru puberty, so the only things that happened to me were 1- alcohol consumption 2- bad eating 3- took accutane for some acne break-outs, it dried me out for 3 months, I had to put vaseline in my nose for added moisture, and I had my wisdom teeth out.
I think I read on an earlier thread that someone took accutane and now has bb. WHO KNOWS. It makes me crazy as to what the root is...

I have started Priolosec for acid reflux... haven't had gas or bloating, which I usually do after eating... Don't think its doing anything for my bb. I will keep taking it though...

Ginger, have you been diagnosed with LPR? your theory is interesting, and I do suffer from alot of what you do. Tell us how your Upper GI goes and such, what are you doing to try and treat is so far? Any recommendations would be great!

G

Xevius

04-13-2005, 04:04 PM

I was on accutane too.

I think that the bb and acne are not unrelated. It is a sign that there are substances ur body cannot deal with. I bet you 1000000000$ that if I was doing the diet that I am doing now when I had acne , I would have never gone on acutane.

As for my diet, I have posted it on the part 4 sections. I ll make a new thread later but I am reluctant because i am not sure the mods will like 2 threads on the same subject...dunno

NOW, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN I would like to share avery interesting experience with you:

Sometime ago, I got in to work thinking that today my B smells bad. For some reason I got the impression that people were avoiding me, or disrespecting me. or stood away from me. When I entered a room someone did not say hello and I thought straight away that he is thinking that my B smells. I became isolated that day paranoid and severly depressed. I went home early
and wanted to start crying thinking that bb is back again. But then I thought
why should I cry for something that I wasnt absolutely sure about.
What if I am interpreting things wrong...nobody had said anything or made comments...(when ur b smells I think u will find that people R not ashamed to tale u. one or two maight b ,but there will be always one that will say something)
I said that I needed to know if that day my B smelled. so I could link it to the peoples reactions which sooo much convinced me of being as a result of my BB
The other day
I approached a good friend which even he hadnt been as wellcoming as usual when I entered his office..made me think that my B smelled again.
And told him that I needed to know if my B smelled the day before so I can take care of it...He was surprised to hear that and said ,that if it had he would have smelled it...and then got on with his business.
So it all turned out to have been one big paranoia (about that day).

So take home message from this...do not interprate other peoples reactions as being related to your B and get depressed. FIRST AT LEAST MAKE SURE THERE IS A GOOD REASON TO GET DEPRESSED ABOUT.

Paranoia about bb is as bad or worse than bb itself!!
take care..eat clean
xevious

blase2

04-13-2005, 04:54 PM

Garrett,

You and I have one thing in common - BB turned bad after starting on alcohol. I've always had BB since a child but not this bad. But strangely even after giving up alcohol didn;t restore my previous status. So I drink anyway on weekends (one or two beers). I just love the taste of beer - can't give it up completely.

This oxy - powder thing seems to be doing something and mouth seems fresh but PND has increased. I've had plenty of problems with my bowels as a child and betn 18-22 yrs - constipation as a child and irritable bowel at 18-22. Over the years I've perfected my diet (pure veggie), done a lot of cleanses, excercise and do yoga regularly, tried thousands of medicines with my bills running up to eight grand easily .. but this stubborn problem has stayed. my kitchen shelf is full of medicines/supplements that I've tried and i don;t know what else I should do to get to "1" i.e fresh breath. I'm stuck at 70% .. need the other 30 % desperately.

You are lucky garrett .. at least you have someone understanding by your side. Don't let her go mate.

Joshie

04-13-2005, 05:24 PM

I've noticed there are at least 4 types of bad breath:

1. Usual morning breath... What does it smell like? I can't describe it.

2. Old smoker's bad breath... This one is awful. Sort of smells like something inside the person has been burned or something. My stepdad used to smoke a lot before, then he quit and got this horrible breath. Could it be something else?

3. Rotten fish breath... Old people seem to suffer from this. I was about 7 ft from this customer at work today and I could smell his breath (his mouth was wide open chewing gum.)

4. Fecal breath... Two of my coworkers have this one. I'm not sure if they're aware of it. Don't think so. One of them drinks a lot of coffee and beer and his breath is worst. The other one's isn't that bad to me.

5. XXX breath... Didn't know what to call it, but it smells a bit like 'cum.' Sorry y'all..

Diggler

04-13-2005, 06:39 PM

Have you ever crushed a 'tonsil stone' between your fingers and smelt it?

Some bb smells like this.

Which one do you class this as joshie?

Diggler

04-14-2005, 04:37 AM

Seeker,

I have a couple questions that maybe you could answer for me....

When you were trying to kill off your candida, did you experience any die-off symptoms?

I've been on an anti-candida diet for 3 weeks now (100% perfect), and been taking probiotics and caprylic acid amongst other supplements, but have experienced no ill-effects. This is making me think I don't have it.

Also,

Regarding your colonics. How many did you have? How far apart were they? Did they help your sinus problems? Did you feel any overall health benefits from them?

I'm trying to convince myself to get a series of them done.

Many Thanks.

denny33

04-14-2005, 06:55 AM

xevius i totally disagree with you im afraid.

When you have BB most people DO NOT tell you your breath smells. Very rarely you will come across someone that has the GUTS to tell you, on the most part people dont like to offend so they will say nothing. Even friends and family can find it difficult to approach you about it. That person at work that you asked, wouldnt have told you he could smell your BB anyway! He prob talked to someone else about it later, about how uncomfortable he felt when you asked him.

The human instinct is a wonderful tool, you just get a sense of what other people are thinking, and when you think or feel others are avoiding you, turning away,rubbing their noses,talking about you etc its because they ACTUALLY ARE doing this, you're not just seeing things.

dont say its mostly in the mind and no one can smell anything..if you THINK you have Bad Breath, unfortunately you usually DO.

Seeker re the moucousy bubbles lol after going to the toilet and doing my biz (you know what i mean) i have noticed these said bubbles floating in the bowl. have you experienced this? i thought it was candida but wasnt sure but now you've mentioned the bubbles thing i guess it might be candida coming out.

:wave:

Xevius

04-14-2005, 08:36 AM

deny33

I disagree with u too!

If u have bb people will throw hints at you. indirectly..like offer you gum etc...(that is your friends). If there is always a liitel prat at work, you can always USE HIM as a control for your friends been polite.
My friend was old enought and mature enough that he would have told me. He knows that I am trying to battle this, so he knows that he NEEDS to tell me so I can fine tune my diet.

The freinds that usually dont tell you are the ones to which you say nothing to when your b smells. It is a hard thing to do and you need to be bold, but if you R not Bold enough to accept it and let others know that you r aware of your problem and you want their support in fighting this then you R always going to b paranoid. and that amplifies the Bb problem.

sorry got to go ,ill CARRY ON LATER

as for instinct, I have always

Ususally prats will offend you moderately to severe.

denny33

04-14-2005, 09:02 AM

The fact that these friends are throwing you a HINT by passing you a chewing gum is in itself hard to deal with. Thats not being honest and open, thats telling you youre breath smells without actually telling you.
I would rather the open way but im sorry it doesnt happen that often. If you have someone you can rely on for a truthful account of your breath status then good on you. I wish all of us could be as happy and fullfilled with this problem as you are.

As for being bold and telling your friends so they can help you, Easier said than done. How many of us on here hasnt told a living soul what they are going thru...LOADS.

We'll have to agree to disagree im afraid.

Thanatos86

04-14-2005, 10:44 AM

Xevius, first you say "do not interprate other peoples reactions as being related to your B and get depressed"

Then you say "If u have bb people will throw hints at you. indirectly..like offer you gum etc"

Most of us know fairly well when someone is reacting to our breath. We often pay more attention to the other person's reaction than we do to the conversation. So its no suprise that most of us will overanalyze some reactions, but the vast majority of our interpretations are real.

Thanatos86

04-14-2005, 11:07 AM

I made some "bad breath banishers". The recipe is for dogs, but the ingredients include Activated Charcoal, Fresh Mint and Fresh Parsley. Other ingredients are brown rice flour, an egg, milk and some oil.

I baked a bunch of them today and consumed several at work. I could tell a difference for up to 1 hour after. I did use regular wheat flour, but this weekend i'll make a batch with brown rice flour. I'm also going to add chlorophyll & mint liquid to make them more potent.

Hopefully they'll come in handy

Xevius

04-14-2005, 03:38 PM

thanatos and denny

I also have had bb since I can remember and know very well what lt is like and how people react to it. I didnt develop it yesterday.

Instincts can be wrong u know. Especially when bb has had a severe psychological impact on you/us.
just trying to always look at this positive in anyway possible.

As for milk and egg as bb banishers???? R u sure??
u never did answer if whey protein gives u bb.

I did bodybuilding in my 20s. consumed lots of whey then , did nt know better and lots of high glucose drinks to get that creatine in cells.
I cant find any other way of puting on muscle rather than jucing up which I am seriously considering. Clean diet and muscle gain is almost imposible.
...bloody hell this bb.

how do u put muscle on???and avoid bb??

shimmertofade

04-14-2005, 03:40 PM

Hi, I thought I would share my story.

I had unexplainable bad breath for several years. I even had bad breath when I kept my mouth shut, because this sulfur-flatulence type odor would would waft from my nostrils when my mouth was shut. I tried brushing, scraping and etc. with no success. (I guess there are many different causes of bad breath.) I thought perhaps I was smelling the inside of my nostrils, or a sinus infection or something to that effect, but the odor seemed to come in "puffs" every 4-5 minutes and my husband would accuse me of passing gas. It got to the point where I would not ride in a car with anyone unless absolutely neccessary. It was definitely aggravated by stress, and the condition itself was one of my biggest stressors. I was also working full time and a full time student at the time, trying to cope with this nightmare. I popped Jolly Ranchers non-stop trying to mask the odor. Along with this I had serious abdominal bloating and cramping. Curiously I rarely actually burped.

Well, because of this, and a history of cancer in the family, I went through a battery of tests, upper GI, Lower GI, CAT, Ultrasound, blood, urine, H-Pyloric and on and on. My diagniosis was suspected IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome). Apparently there is no actual confirmation of IBS, or so I was told. I took some medication for the IBS for about a year that was overall, not effective. I also eliminated milk and various food products from my diet to identify possible allergies.

I also have a family history of depression and anxiety. I finally went to see my doctor to address it. This unresolved odor/gas/bloating problem was feeling like "the last straw" and just about enough to do me in despite having a wonderful family, college education and career. The doctor put me on a low dose of prozac.

Within 3 days my depression and anxiety dissipated completely. (I know they say it takes several weeks for this medication to get into your system, I don't know why it hit me so quickly.)The unexpected positive result of this (pertaining to ya'll) was that, every one of my abdominal problems also dissipated, first the IBS and then the resulting "puffs" of gas that were escaping my body via my mouth and nose. While I know that some people with depression suffer from psycho-sematic health concerns, this condition was very real. I believe, in my case, my symptoms were caused by anxiety and involuntary muscle contractions. Simple stress reduction was not enough for me.

Occassionally I will experience a "waft" and realize I have forgotten to take my medication for at least two days. I am willing to take this medication for the rest of my life for this reason alone, even with the stigma that is attached. The stigma of prozac is more attractive to me than the stigma of stink.

I think that our physical and physiological/mental healths are connected in ways far beyond our comprehension at this time. Anyways, just wanted to mention it, so if someone is in the same situation that can run it by their doctor.

Thanks for listening!

denny33

04-14-2005, 04:35 PM

You wouldnt guess you have had BB for years xev, you come across as someone who hasnt really had to live with it for that long, with the things you say.

Put it this way,if you knew you DIDNT have BB, then if people were rubbing noses and moving away THEN you'd get paranoid and wonder why they are doing this..but when you KNOW you have BB peoples reactions are not a state of mind they are very real.
Yes you do have to stay positive i would be the first to agree with you there but it is not always possible. Not when you are genuinely living with the problem day in day out.

Shimmertofade so you do not have a problem at all now? All smells have gone?

ciao4now guys

:wave:

mya123

04-14-2005, 11:22 PM

I need to VENT!!! I am so frustrated! I have tried many products including modifying diet, taking AO and using the tung brush. Although my mouth is fresher, I still have BB! Just today I had a meeting and knew I had to talk at this meeting so I prepared ahead of time. You know the feeling, brush and brush teeth and tongue, rinse and rinse and rinse some more. Chew gum etc. Check my tongue and it was bright pink so I thought I was set! Well it did not help. There were only 6 of us in a tiny room and everytime I HAD to talk everyone covered their noses or rubbed their noses. I could see the look of disgust in one persons face. It was humiliating. I cant take it anymore! BUt what really makes me mad is that I noticed this lady's tongue at work because she stuck it out (dont ask??) and it was WHITE, totally and completely white but she had no odor, no bb. How is this possible?? I cant take it anymore! It is NOT fair!

Godisgood

04-14-2005, 11:23 PM

Thantos
I would rate my breath/BO...9.88-
And about the brown rice try boiling it in chicken broth..for flavor:)

Zoott

04-15-2005, 03:35 AM

I need to VENT!!! Just today I had a meeting and knew I had to talk at this meeting so I prepared ahead of time. You know the feeling, brush and brush teeth and tongue, rinse and rinse and rinse some more. Chew gum etc. Check my tongue and it was bright pink so I thought I was set! Well it did not help. There were only 6 of us in a tiny room and everytime I HAD to talk everyone covered their noses or rubbed their noses. I could see the look of disgust in one persons face. It was humiliating. I cant take it anymore! It is NOT fair!

I'm sure Thanatos86 will back me up on this one. I find Zox mints the best thing to take before meetings or for situations where you know you'll have to talk in confined places. They seem to neutralize any remnents of odour once you've already done your tongue brushing. I have a stash of these mints which I only use for these occasions (they're not cheap).

Zoott

04-15-2005, 03:38 AM

Hmmmm! I wonder which ingredient it is in zox mints thats making them affective!

denny33

04-15-2005, 10:20 AM

Hi Guys

Zoots question has just made me look up a few things.

It seems the ingredient that might be helping in zox mints is Zinc Gluconate. It blocks the receptors on the anaerobic bacteria so that they dont bind with the amino acids, and if they dont bind with amino acids, then they dont produce VSC'S.
You can buy zinc gluconate in tablet form.

I also found the following about zinc gluconate and its use.

Zinc is required by the body for numerous actions including enzyme activity,genetic formation and the structure and function of cell membranes.

Zinc is a mineral essential for formation of superoxide dismutase which is one of the body's most important free radical scavengers and one that cannot be directly supplemented.

Zinc also promotes wound healing,immune fuction,taste sensitivity, protein synthesis,insulin production and reproduction in the body.

Could it be that if tested we would all be deficient in this mineral?

It would explain alot.... if your mother was deficient of this, would she pass that deficientcy to you at birth? Would this explain BB occuring in people as children? as a child you have no colon build up, no build up of toxins/bacteria etc but you can still have BB....
OR BB occurring later on usually after some major event ie illness,course of antibiotics,puberty,over indulgence...Do we decrease the amount of zinc in our systems? and once decreased....BOOM.. unmoveable BB, among other things.

Im thinking yeah its good to do the clean diet, the cleansing etc but there is still that unanswered question as to why some people can eat,drink,etc what they like, when they like ,and do not have this BB problem. What is it in their bodies, that is not in ours?

I am going to try to find out more about this, do some more research ,but its interesting reading.

anybody heard of zinc gluconate before?
Thantanos you have alot of research under your belt, what do you make of this?

ciao4now
:wave:

lucky59

04-15-2005, 11:56 AM

'Could it be that if tested we would all be deficient in this mineral?' (zinc)

Hi Denny,

I think it makes a lot of sense to supplement with a wide spectrum of vitamins and minerals because it seems that in the west, deficiency is widespread, according to Government research here in UK. (No doubt official statistics in US and elsewhere confirm this.) I have been supplementing for nearly 5 years now, including zinc, without any noticeable improvement in bb, though improvement in many other aspects of my health.

Interesting about zinc gluconate blocking receptors. I notice the active ingredient in 'tung gel' is zinc chloride. I wonder if this has a similar effect.

On the subject of tung gel, I have been using it regularly for a couple of weeks. I use it and ClO2 mouthwash last thing at night. Initially I was waking up with a clean fresh taste in the morning but recently I've noticed the usual dry, gunky, morning breath taste I am more familiar with, together with a mild wrist test smell.

Interested to read what else you come up with.

Regards, lucky.

ShroudedInMist

04-15-2005, 12:34 PM

Hello there...

I've been eating that sugarfree yoghurt that has the asidofilus and bifidus bacteria for almost two weeks, and I think there is some improvement happening with my breath. This is quite promising... Now I don't think this the ultimate cure, but if it offers even some help, then I think it's worth using.

The taste might feel a bit strange in the beginning (I don't put anything to spice it up, just eat it plain), but you'll get used to it. It is actually quite good.

BTW, it isn't too hard to make yoghurt at home, I'm sure you can find instructions to it. It isn't too expensive either.

Xevius

04-15-2005, 02:02 PM

denny , I dont know the nature of your BB. But mine comes from the intestine.

It is exaclty like Shimmertofade .

what is yours like??? you seem to always refer to the mouth?

R U positive that that is the source??? Chronic bb is most likely th intestine and not the mouth.

I have heard lots of people here complaining about their mouths and cleaning endlessly and still having bb.
R u guys sure the mouth is the source???

Shimmertofade, I would very much like to meet u and people like you. I am pretty sure if we had large number of people we could do some genetics on this type of BB.

What I wouldnt give to learn the EXACT mechanism of our bb Shimmertofade.
Do U think it is the stomach opening and closing every now and then releasing gases all over the place????

blase2

04-15-2005, 02:26 PM

blase2

04-15-2005, 02:31 PM

blase2

04-15-2005, 02:37 PM

<B>
Chronic bb is most likely th intestine and not the mouth.
</B>

Incorrect Xevius. There is no proven link. Most of the time the odour is from the mouth. Sure healthy intestines may be linked to a pink tongue but pink tongue is no guarantee that you have fresh breath.

chloe_123

04-15-2005, 02:58 PM

I have a pink tongue, even when I wake up in the morning but I still have BB. My BB comes from my tongue, that I am sure of, regardless of what colour it is.

denny33

04-15-2005, 03:13 PM

Hi Blase i was more thinking about zinc being used Internally rather than just in a product Externally.

We know tung gel etc use zinc and to a certain degree they do work, even if only for a short time.

My thoughts are if zinc were taken inside the body, would it make a difference? esp reading today about what enough zinc in the body actually helps the body to do (see last post)

I dont know, maybe im on the wrong track im not a doctor, but its worth a look.

denny
:wave:

Garrett123

04-15-2005, 03:38 PM

Interesting theory.
I had a bad experience with Zinc. I took it breifly, but it made me feel nauseous, I threw up one day taking it on an empty stomach. I am not sure about Gluconate, and I am sure it derives from the same... Maybe taking it on a full stomack would be better, or a lower dosage.
So lucky, no improvement from this supplement?

At this point I have NO idea where my bb stems from. I go back and forth, another thing that drives my mind crazy. All that think thier bb stems from tongue, when you scrape the back of your tongue, does it smell? Even after letting it dry for a min?
Mine doesn't smell like a thing... I catch a taste/wiff of my bb when my ole facorty blanks for a brief second... if that makes sense...

I have horrible indegestion like Shimmer, I must say I am wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy less gaseous since starting the Prilosec. I'm Eating with no stomach knots at all which was all the time for me. I do plan to start Prozac in a few weeks anyway to deal. 10 years is pushing me down the hole. My family does have anxiety problems, and stress problems. Also Hyatal Hernia, my dad has. So a combo of anxiety and bad digestion could be a irritant of my bb...

This is weird, it made me think about Denny's post.... I can remember when I was in elem/junior high school there was a time my mother had bb. NOT wretched like mine... but noticeable
for some reason now, its clean as ever on her. This probably has nothing to do with me, but you never know.

I do think our bodies are deficient of something. Dying to find what! Man people with normal b don't know really how lucky they are!

keep these curious detective thoughts coming... we may be onto something!

chuckwho

04-15-2005, 05:12 PM

mya123

04-15-2005, 06:09 PM

Sorry to burst the bubble but I've already looked zinc being a possible bb cure. I used to take zinc 60mg everyday but I never noticed a difference in bb. It may work for someone else though. Taking it with food definetely helps with the nausea. Also one should not take it everyday (as I did) because it can cause copper depletion which can cause anemia, weak immune system, etc. Technically you should not take more than 15mg a day.

blase2

04-15-2005, 06:56 PM

Ginger65, I think you are correct in thinking that the stomach bacterium H.Pyori has alot to do with our bad breath. Lots of people with chronic halitosis respond to treatment for H.pylori. This may be because mouth bacteria, sinus and periodontal disease responds to the same antibiotics. It may be that H.pylori is the cause of the halitosis (bad digestion, achlorhydria etc.). In any case, I think treating H.pylori might be worthwhile. The Helicobacter foundation talks about this. So does Dr. Gabe Mirkin he also talked about this. I'm going for sinus surgery in July and i'am going to ask to get for treatment for H.Pyori. It's worth a try.

H Pylori can cause BB but it normally shows up as other symptoms as well. I got myself tested about a year and a half ago and it was negative. And i was praying then for positive result.

two types of tests are available -: breath test and blood test.

Breath test is said to be more reliable - no joy for me.

chloe_123

04-15-2005, 07:38 PM

In 1999 I was tested via bloodwork for an H-Pylori ulcer and was positive. I was given several different kinds of antibiotics to take for several days and the ulcer went away. These were very strong anitibiotics and I wish I could say if I had better breath during that time but I was so violently ill while taking them I kept throwing them up. So I had barf breath the whole time. I was then tested again this January via breath test and was negitive but the BB is still there.

Thanatos86

04-15-2005, 07:51 PM

IMO, zinc's anti-halitosis properties end in the mouth. Once you ingest it, you've wasted its potential to help your BB>

All the zincs work, but Zinc Gluconate is inferior to both Zinc Acetate and Zinc Chloride because the latter two release more zinc ions and are more stable. But for me Zox is the best mint out there. Better than all gums as well.

inferno_81

04-15-2005, 08:20 PM

Just a few things for thought.

My girlfriend doesn't have bad breath but she does have a white coating on the tongue and when she licks her wrist it smells similar to when I do, and I have a breath problem. How does that work?

As for those questioning where the smell comes from, for me anyways Im guessing its a buildup in my throat/tongue. I dont know anymore, I have been using a tongue scraper and brush in one with a neti pot the last few days and haven't had much difference. Even right after cleaning my mouth, if i lick the wrist it still smells. I will keep this up for a few more weeks and keep you posted.

Its bizzaaare!

Keep your spirits high!

-K

chriss22

04-15-2005, 10:32 PM

Hey Garrett,
I mentioned in an earlier post that I went on antidepressants (lexapro) also as a result of bb. It did help ease the misery of it but the problem is still not gone. Anyway, I decided to stop taking it a couple of weeks ago, and I had HORRIBLE withdrawals as a result. I was dizzy, nauseaus, irritable, for about 3 weeks after and I was on the lowest possible does. Had I known how bad they were going to be, I don't think I would have ever gone on them. Just be sure to check out the withdrawals before you start it. You can just do a search and it'll give you the warnings.

Hate to be discouraging, I know this situation pushes us all to that point. We just need some type of breakthrough.

olivia33

04-15-2005, 11:19 PM

A new thread and filling up quickly! What is the verdict on Oxy Powder? Is it worth getting? I may order it this weekend if you all think it's working. I picked up some dandelion root tea today - supposed to clean liver, kidney, blood... we'll see.

Interestingly, a friend of mine who usually has good breath, had wretched breath this week. Turns out she had a sinus/cold thing. Just some insight on how fine breath can turn bad and from what.

olivia33

04-15-2005, 11:38 PM

Oh, and I found some good info on the web - check out detox diet for summer....

lucky59

04-16-2005, 06:46 AM

'So lucky, no improvement from this supplement?'(zinc)

Hi Garrett, no, no noticeable improvement of bb with any of the broad spectrum of supplements I've taken for 5 years.

Last night, for the first time I used tung gel without using ClO2 mouthwash. I did a preliminary brush, then a scrape and with a dry tongue, a final gel brush. My mouth felt fresh this morning. I'll try it again for a week and let you know how I get on.

Garrett, are you still using the tung gel? It maybe that those of us who have success with ClO2 (you and me) may also respond to tung gel. That would be useful info if it was true.

I use the brush and gel maybe 4 times a day including morning and evening. Unlike your situation, my girlfriend is on board with my bb and wants me to buy HER a brush too! (She's impressed with my pink tongue.)

Best wishes, lucky.

(I wonder if you would find some peace with this issue if you could find the courage to talk about it with your girlfriend. After all, you seem convinced she's aware of it anyway. And it wouldn't have to be a heavy thing, something like: you know, sometimes I'm aware of a bad taste in my mouth and I'm sure my breath smells sometimes......)

blase2

04-16-2005, 06:50 AM

Unlike your situation, my girlfriend is on board with my bb and wants me to buy HER a brush too! (She's impressed with my pink tongue.)

i really envy you people seeing how you can talk to your understanding girlfriend. I don;t even have one [sigh].

blase2

04-16-2005, 06:53 AM

Zox is the best mint out there. Better than all gums as well.

hmm I'll see if I can get it in my country (England). Maybe those thera breath twats have got it. Will try it. Cheers Thanatos.

blase2

04-16-2005, 06:58 AM

A new thread and filling up quickly! What is the verdict on Oxy Powder? Is it worth getting?

Well I've completed my seven day oxy powder cleanse. During the cleanse breath was becoming bad. PND increased. But I felt good. It's funny my urine was becoming dark yellow and was smelling of food. That would suggest a leaky gut. But I have no desire to try glutamine and msm again.

So dunno - try it you may get something out of it.

Think we all are pissing in the wind with all the products and cleanses. There is simply no cure at this stage. I have high hopes from Prof. Zambon's discovery of new bacteria causing BB using DNA sequencing.

Lets see.

denny33

04-16-2005, 07:06 AM

thantanos you got me asking the question "why use zinc gluconate specifically" why not use zinc chloride, zinc acetate in zox if they do the same or better job.

I found the following statement.

Zinc gluconate bonds with bacterial receptors to inhibit odour production.

Zinc gluconate and ONLY zinc gluconate has been proven to restore sour/bitter/metallic tastes.
Studies have shown that people with long term taste disorders can experience a rejuvenation of taste buds after long term use.

Questions that are now swimming in my head:

Is zinc gluconate present in the body naturally?
If so would that mean that BB sufferers are deficient of this?
Do people with fresh breath have an abundance of this particular zinc in their bodies? hence inhibiting odour production constantly?

ciao4now
:wave:

lucky59

04-16-2005, 07:17 AM

'hmm I'll see if I can get it in my country (England).' (zox)

Hi Blase, let us know if you manage to find it in UK as I'll be getting some too.

lucky.

ps re my girlfriend being on board, it was her who brought up my bb in the first place. Though I've had it for well over 30 years in total.

blase2

04-16-2005, 10:10 AM

Hi Blase, let us know if you manage to find it in UK as I'll be getting some too.

lucky.

ps re my girlfriend being on board, it was her who brought up my bb in the first place. Though I've had it for well over 30 years in total.

Got it from thera health international in the UK. Ordered it online - will see if it is any good. (£1.90) .

Think it is easy to get a GF when you don't know you have BB. Now it is always on my mind.

Thanatos86

04-16-2005, 12:03 PM

Denny, I was certain it was Dr. Katz that said "Zinc gluconate and only zinc gluconate" before looking it up. He says that about all of his products. Something to remember is that these companies have no interest in showing real science. They have to sell their products and make you think that theirs is the best.

The effectiveness of Zinc lies in its ability to release zinc ions within the environment of the oral cavity. Zinc Acetate releases 100%. Zinc Chloride is next with something like 50% and Zinc Gluconate only releases 30%. There are several others that release even less zinc ions.

From what I can gather, oxyfresh has a patent on Zinc Acetate in their product, though I have no idea how that is possible. Zinc Gluconate might also be cheaper, so that's why Katz keeps on using it.

I personally don't think that zinc deficiency is a cause of BB. The Zox mints are not miracles, but they do make a noticable difference.

lucky59

04-16-2005, 02:38 PM

Got it from thera health international in the UK. Ordered it online - will see if it is any good. (£1.90) .

Think it is easy to get a GF when you don't know you have BB. Now it is always on my mind.

Thanks for this Blase.

I don't think I was very clear in my last post-I have been aware of my bb for over 30 years which I have dealt with in various ways. Often with conventional mouthwashes which were very effective to begin with and then failed to make an impact probably because the bacteria became resistant to the active ingredients.

I have been with my girlfriend for over 2 years now (I have had many girlfriends over the years which leads me to believe that my bb is not as bad as others on this board) and it was about 6 months ago that she said that I had bb.

So in a way, you're right. I believed I had the bb covered when we began our relationship. It was only later that the mouthwash I was using and relying on, became ineffective.

I can't remember all your posts and your history but I assume you've tried the tung brush with ClO2 mouthwash. I am positive this has a dramatic effect for me which lasts hours. (I have quite a routine involving brushing, scraping 'dry' and brushing again.)

My aspiration is to have my bb 'controlled', much like diabetes is controlled. In this way I don't suffer regular setbacks when I discover the latest 'cure' has failed.

Best wishes, lucky.

denny33

04-16-2005, 04:10 PM

Yeah i understand you thantanos....altho i will say it wasnt the zox mints i was really centreing on, more the neutralizing ingredient that is present in it.
One avenue leads to another when you're trying to solve a problem like this.Makes you look at anything that might help.

Im beginning to agree with blase that we are pissing in the wind on this thing. It would be so good just to find something that works,i dont even have to have breath as sweet as a spring morning....just better,so i can have a relativley normal existance.

oh well, onwards and upwards

:wave:

Garrett123

04-16-2005, 05:51 PM

pissing in the wind is right...
I am beginning to think there is no cure ever... maybe we can control it like denny said and live somewhat normally.

this problem has been going on for CENTURIES with no avail...
Besides what would Listerine, Dentyne and Tic Tac industry do without bb or the fear of it? If there was some thing that cured this ailment, they'd all be bankrupt. Why can deodarant keep BO away ( for the most part ) but nothing for bb? Godisgood, I know you suffer both, and that must be hell... hopefully the BO is more easily treated than they way we are all suffereing from bb. UGH. How are you doing btw?

still trying to hold up the clean diet. Had a salad with Ranch dressing, I am sure it killed my BB. Also a baked potato.. gotta get some kinda carb, brown rice ain't cutting it...
went out to lunch with some buddies of mine... we sat in a booth, crammed in 6 of us... UM yeah, I seemed to talk ok, but who knows maybe they just hold their intake of air till I am done talking... after food ( of any kind ) my bb is at its worst...

Hope you are all hanging in there...
p.s. I wish I had the guts to come out in the open with it like Lucky to my girlfriend. I do! I am so afraid the best thing that ever happend to me will leave me if we talk about it, since its a disguting topic to most. Call me chicken, I know I am... :rolleyes:

fossil

04-16-2005, 06:36 PM

Hey...

I tried to gargle with the AO and it seems to do well for me.
Try this: after you brushed your teeth and everything. Drop some AO in your mouthwash (3-5 drops) and gargle with it. The theory is that if we have a lot of bad anaerobic bacteria at the end of our tongue, the AO will surely reduce it. Let me know your progress...

Joshie

04-17-2005, 08:26 AM

This past week I have been eating pretty clean; no greasy food, white flour, sugar, caffeine, sodas, dairy, etc. Gotta admit that I had, like, 3 pizzas though. Oops! Plus, I had fries with ketchup (which contains sugar) and the canned garbanzo beans I eat with my vegetables have sugar and some other additives in them. Not sure if this made much difference though. I didn't have that much sugar, you know? I probably ate chicken for dinner twice this week. Oh, on Friday I had lots of burned almonds (sugar coated.) I'm really allergic to almonds, so I got some pnd from it. At least my sugar and snacks cravings seem to be gone.

Anyways, on Saturday we threw this work party in a house by the ocean. I talked intimately with people all night and experienced no reactions from people whatsoever. Funny thing is, the food that was served was Arabic and had lots of different spices, white rice, white bread, garlic and chilli ++. I always get this bad taste in my mouth some 15 minutes after consuming food, any food. It kind of feels like the taste of the food lingers in my mouth. Does this happen to everyone? All I have to do get rid of it, is pop a sugarfree candy with some good taste. I usually pick the sour-sweet ones. Seems like my bb is gone when there's no bad taste.

olivia33

04-17-2005, 08:40 AM

I had run out of Tung Gel about two weeks ago so I just used my tung brush with regular toothpaste or with hydrogen peroxide. Last night I got a tube of the gel and used it before bed. What an immediate difference. It felt a ton fresher right after using it, plus I awoke to a fresh mouth this morning. So yes, it seems there is something in the gel that is effective. I read somewhere on the web that if you used the gel and brush twice a day for a year you would put an end to bad breath. I plan to test that...

denny33

04-17-2005, 10:22 AM

Hi guys

Joshie I have the exact same thing as you..my mouth seems do go downhill about 15-20mins after eating/drinking anything and this bad taste starts to come through that gets proggressively worse esp as i talk, and my mouth is very dry most of the time.

Also i have noticed that if my mouth tastes ok i think it smells ok(ish) but im not 100% sure.. i notice i do get less reactions if it tastes ok but it easily goes from that to a bad taste before too long.

There seems to be no bacterial defense in my mouth or saliva, whatever it is that is supposed to keep my mouth neutralised naturally is missing.
What is that thing!!!!! How do i get it into my body!!!!

Bye for now
:)

Joshie

04-17-2005, 10:44 AM

Denny, technically popping somekind of pill containing "neutralizers" should take care of the problem. I'm not in the states, but when I was over there, I bought a couple of packs of Zox and I also have a couple of samples left. I tried a sample right after a meal yesterday and it seemed to neutralize any food taste fairly quick - and it lasted. Of course you have to be on a clean diet or there's no use trying them. That's why I thought they didn't work (I used to eat lots of junk food when I was in the states.)

CONCLUSION:
1. Eat clean and drink lots of water throughout the day.
2. Clean your mouth and tongue properly (I use a self-made tongue brush and baking soda.)
3. Rinse your mouth properly after meals and pop a Zox or two. I often use toothpicks or floss too.

I think this is what works for me. I'm planning on doing some cleanses soon. I just have to find out if I am able to import those products from the Oxy-Powder website.

chloe_123

04-17-2005, 11:08 AM

Thanatos you had mentioned oxyfresh, has anybody ever tried it? I tried it last year and it didn't work but that was before I started eating better. Is it worth giving it another try while on this clean diet?
Chloe

blase2

04-17-2005, 12:13 PM

Seems like my bb is gone when there's no bad taste.

Exactly. no matter how much these so called experts say there is no relation between taste and BB - i always have BB when my taste is bad.

When your taste is bad, you are more likely to have BB .. IMO.

blase2

04-17-2005, 12:14 PM

blase2

04-17-2005, 12:15 PM

Zoott

04-17-2005, 12:36 PM

I'll have to side with blase on a lot of these issues I'm afraid. unless your BB is stomach related like Xevius I think all this dieting and bowel cleanes are a waste of time. Lets face it we all eat the same junk as normal people and changing your diet or flushing out your guts wont get rid of bacteria in your mouth so i think your attention should remain in your mouth and throat. Just in case you're wondering YES I have tried diets and gut flushing and the only thing it worked for me with is body odour.

Garrett123

04-17-2005, 12:56 PM

a clean diet will always help. no matter what the source. for those mouth realted... with fresh "boring" food , it will at least minimize what the bacteria in our mouths have field days with. If we eat Mexican and Italian well you can just forget it, its Christmas morning for bacteria every time we eat it!
A clean diet will kick it only completely if its stomach related, which iam not postive is my problem... Xevius and Seeker seem to have that issue.

My range of symptoms confuses me. I also agree Denny and Joshie, my mouth seems to take form of the food. I just have this feeling its very pourous in there which harbors the smell, smells hang out and turn to bb with the funktified smell we have. UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

I posted earlier really wanting to try Salogen. ( Saliva stimulant ) I didn't seem to get much response from the board posters... I don't feel as if I have dry mouth, but I do feel it porous, so I think I need that extra saliva to get in the grooves of my mouth and throat to break down the bacteria. I ordered OTC saliva stimulants, there were basically just hard candy... Any thoughts on Salogen??

I am going to a wedding in 3 weeks and I plan to not drink alcohol or eat anything bad,,, try to have normal conversations and see how it goes... I think the only time I will eat badly is when I am home alone, and the next day to re-coup. I would lovvvvvvvvve to stay on brown rice and veggies everyday till I die, but its not realistic to me. The bad things I will have will be the potato, ice cream ( small amt. ) little cheese, etc... Also I found that if you make Thin crust pizza at home , with olive oil instead of the red sauce, and just a little cheese, you get the same satisfaction of having thick crusted cheesy pizza.

I am still using AO, I find it does do more that without... I will try gargling with it joshie and let you know how it goes.... Lucky do you follow a clean diet? I have lost 5 lbs this week, which is good for me as I have a bit of love handles at my waist...

Bye all

garfiola

04-17-2005, 01:00 PM

i think everyhing we do the bacterias get use to it

so what to do, i will not even buy AO because obviously it helps only for while

garfiola

04-17-2005, 01:04 PM

and i remember seeker when he was doing flushes, cleanse and fasting and he did it

so seeker please answer this

was your bb before really strong and all the time, did it fill the room or it was just mild, was it cadaverous?

oioi

04-17-2005, 01:12 PM

Zoott

04-17-2005, 01:51 PM

Have you all heard of this new "amazing" KForce mouthwash?

"Probiotics & KForce .. a natural remedy for halitosis sufferers"

"KForce™ probiotics are the very first oral care treatment that will not only remove the bad breath bacteria, but will also actually repopulate the mouth with the good S.salivarius K12 that was discovered by Professor Tagg."

It's from BreezeCare so I DON'T really trust them!!!! But what does everyone else think?

To be blunt it's all BS to get more money out of us. I tried it like many other true BB sufferers, it does not work. Do not believe their testimonials like I did, it will only get you over exited.

blase2

04-17-2005, 02:50 PM

pissing in the wind is right...
Call me chicken, I know I am... :rolleyes:

Nah! you're not. We all know how devastating it is to have chronic BB. In my case it has not just changed my personality but turned my life upside down and I'm having to re-evaluate my goals and what I want to achieve in this life.

mya123

04-17-2005, 04:18 PM

Hi

I have noticed for me that AO has not really helped. I tried to gargle with AO and mouthwash this morning and it made my bb worse! I have thick, frothy like saliva which gives me dry mouth, excessive thirst, and bb. I think the thing that has helped me the most is Biotene mouthwash. It is used for dry mouth but it contains a lot of the natural anti-bacterial substances in natural saliva. It has a light fresh taste and freshens my breath longer than ClO2.

Garrett, I want to try Salogen but it is a prescription drug and MD rarely prescribe it unless one has Sjogens Disease, which I don't. But I think that this would help with BB because it would be like having Biotene in my mouth all the time. Please let me know if it helps you.

mya123

04-17-2005, 04:20 PM

I want to try to do a liver flush soon to try to eradicate my PND and hopefully BB but I am not sure how often I should drink the lemon/Oil/Epsom salt mixture and for how long. Can someone help? :)

Xevius

04-17-2005, 06:35 PM

Ok...after a few days dieting I ate some pie,and the next day a big puff of rotten egg came out of my mouth.
The funny thing is that my gas smell the same as my b.

Somehow intestinal gas gets to my mouth and out.

Any ideas how? anybody???

In the past i had no control over this and suffered the consequences...at least now I can control it to some beneficial extend..but never 100%. When that gas came out , I could have been speaking to somebody..I was just lucky....lasted 1-2min with sporadic puffs...... by the way who else has somthing like this??

Thanatos86

04-17-2005, 06:50 PM

Xevius, did you burp?

Intestinal gas does not come back up. The bacteria in your mouth is probably creating methyl mercaptan which smells like feces.

olivia33

04-17-2005, 07:28 PM

Has anyone tried Mastic Gum? An antibacterial gum from some shrub in the Greek Isles. Supposed to kill bad bacteria in both the mouth and digestive tract including h plyhori. If anyone knows anything about it, fill me in.

chloe_123

04-17-2005, 09:21 PM

Mya, in regards to your LF question, type Hulda Clark Liver Flush Recipe on a search engine and it should bring you to it. Sorry, I couldn't be more specific but can't post websites here.

Xevius

04-17-2005, 09:23 PM

thanatos,

negative....as i said before. if it is from the mouth it smells all the time. Imagine having a bottle of gas- with two lids ,one on top,one on bottom, and opening the lid momenteraly from the top.
that is what my case is like.

mouth bb does NOT come in puffs.

Also seeker is right. I also had bb from periodontitis. (lucky me eh...)
AND that too was dumpened down by clean dieting.and supplementing

Basicaly. Clean diet has SAVED me from: Acne, fatigue, uncontrolable bb. mouth and intestine.

I think that people that r in to gym and lifting can eat cleaner than people that r not. that is perhaps why seeker and me and thanatos
caneat clean.

it took me 7-10 years to finetune my diet.

The easiest way is to start with simple food and start introducing things every 3 days.

I was going to keep a 2 week journal of EVERYTHING that crosses my mouth and the time of day. See when I have bb. Perhaps discover something new again who knows.........

Nevertheless. I will try some prozac for a while , see if shimmertofade was right on this one. I am curious.

mya123

04-17-2005, 09:23 PM

Seeker 77

How long did it take you on the strict diet to rid yourself of BB? and do you REALLY no longer have chronic bb? Be quite honest, please.... :)

My main concern with the change in diet is losing weight. I am already quite thin and do not wish to lose more weight, but if it does workas you say it does I guess I can live looking like a skeleton, rather than stink!

ShroudedInMist

04-17-2005, 09:26 PM

I don't really believe in the things that Hulda Clark is selling... I mean would you buy "LCD Super Zapper Delux 2004 "? You should really do some research...

olivia33

04-17-2005, 10:37 PM

I question Dr. Hulda Clark as well. Dr. Linda Page seems reputable - search on healthy healing. She has lots of info on detoxing and sells a line of detox products. My oxy powder will arrive in a few days, when I'm done with that I'll move on to Dr. Page's detox book, plan, products.

chloe_123

04-18-2005, 12:12 AM

I agree with Seeker, forget what H.Clark is selling and just take a look at her liver flush recipe. All you need is epson salt, olive oil and a grapefruit and it works. I passed 40 stones on my first try and I believe Seeker has also had success with it.

Zoott

04-18-2005, 03:15 AM

In severe cases it might take a year of cleansing. In addition to this, I don't understand how some of you can even question the effectiveness of 'cleansing'? How do you explain the bacterial buildup that you claim to cause your bad breath? Genetic? Random? Please.

Drop all the bloody pills, chemicals & rinses. Start sweating! Eat clean! Get lots of oxygen! Drink lots of water! Give this routine a year, if that wont work then I'll delete all my posts and retire from this forum.

S.

I don't buy it, your case is definately different. I've had BB since I was a toddler which clearly tells me that toxic build up is irrelevent in my case so there's no way I'd punish myself for even 6 months let alone a year to find little or no improvement.

lucky59

04-18-2005, 03:45 AM

Lucky do you follow a clean diet?

Hi Garrett, pretty much. I am a fish eating vegetarian. I'm not into alcohol, don't smoke. Keen on chocolate. And I drink a cappuccino a day. I used to find that my bb was worse after the coffee though I haven't noticed any change since I've been on the latest cleaning regime. The only dairy I use is in the coffee and I'm in the process of getting used to soya milk instead.

In fact, I may be most vulnerable to bb when I haven't eaten anything at all for a number of hours. (And of course when I first wake up in the morning.)

lucky.

Noreaga

04-18-2005, 06:00 AM

I completely agree with you Seeker.

In my opinion all these mouthwashes, gels, brushes, scrapers etc. can be used for support purposes only. What I am trying to say is that you've got to fight the cause of bad breath....not bb itself. For example: getting rid of the tongue coating won't get you anywhere, because it just regenerates in a matter of hours.
It's better to get to the point that this coating does not form.

Also being on the clean diet is NOT a punishment. It just takes time getting used to and you're living healthier and feel better in the end anyway.

Thanatos86

04-18-2005, 09:05 AM

"How do you explain the bacterial buildup that you claim to cause your bad breath? Genetic? Random? Please"

First, you have to explain how a lack of internal cleansing causes bad breath. I have yet to see scientific proof that the flushes, cleanses or "oxygen therapy" works. From what I can tell, your diet seems to be doing the trick. You're approaching the issue as if these bad breath bacteria are actually bad. They're not! They're as natural as the bacteria that produce no VSCs. Genetics has EVERYTHING to do with bacterial flora. Genetics determins cell receptors which certain bacteria adhere to. Without that ahesion, there's no colonization and thus no bad breath for the most part.

Its sounds ridiculous to me that somehow constipation creates these bacteria out of thin air or somehow makes them adhere to mucosal surfaces. Why can't you tell me how all of this works instead of saying "I don't know" only to follow it up with a mockery of actual science as depicted in your quote?

And yes, I'm sticking with my diet and flushes! I'm willing to give anything a try, but to be honest, I don't see a thing with the kidney/colon flushes yet. The diet is incredible (though yucky and often unsatisfying) and has probably reduced my BB in half throughout the day.

But I agree that everyone should at least try the diet. The diet is not torture, you just have to discipline yourself. Torture is living with bad breath! That's the torture!

Now if you don't mind, its time for me to eat some almonds instead of drinking my usual protein shake.

mya123

04-18-2005, 10:43 AM

I agree with Thanatos. Genetics has everything to do with it!! We not only have the receptors that allow these critters to bind to but in addition the normal flora that we have is from our parents...our mothers precisely especially if we've been breast fed. I met someone online whose whole family has bb. How?? GENETICS!

But now I am going to throw up a question.....

Do you think bb is contagious? I have noticed that when I talk for long periods of time in a small room with other people, that initially their breaths are fresh but then I guess, after my bacteria have consumed the air, their breathes are horrific, usually smelling of fecal or like rotten garbage! And I think ....is that how my breathe smells. So is bb contagious...even temporarily??

hhmmm (rubbing hands devilishly)....maybe if we breathe hard enough and talk enough then we can infect those fresh-breathed enemies permanently. (evil laugh) lol j/k :p

sartor

04-18-2005, 10:44 AM

I believe that diet has an important role to play in controlling BB.

However, I don't buy into the idea that candida is a common cause of bad breath, and so do not believe that all sugars and virtually all carbs need to be avoided. I know that research into the field of BB is in its infancy, but the medical profession -front line practioners, let alone the microbiologists carrying out research into halitosis- would instantly be able to identify oral candida as the cause. There is no scientific evidence that candida infection elseware in the body could cause oral malodour. Furthermore there is no evidence that candida can become systemic in anyone other than the seriously ill e.g. those infected with aids.

I subscribe to the view that the tongue cleansing action of hard, fibrous foods is the key to helping to control bad breath through diet. Furthermore, avoiding "soft", "sticky" high protein substances is important e.g. certain forms of animal protein such as mincemeat, soft cheeses (e.g. brie), yoghurt (even natural bio yoghurt when cleansing is not possible immediately afterwards). These types of protein sources will coat and sit on the tongue, providing a perfect supply of food for the real culprits of BB in the majority of cases - Bacteria within the oral cavity (scientifically proven). This theory also helps explain the success people have had on "clean candida" diets, which typically include high quantities of fibre.

By following this high fibre diet containing lots of hard foods (e.g. apples, whole meal toast) and avoiding "soft", "sticky" protein sources I have reduced my tongue coating and BB no end despite continuing to eat wheat, meat and fruits - in great quantities.

Go forth and eat!

Sartor

P.S. I have found that the best way to guard against the onset of bad breath after a meal is to finish with a fresh, crisp salad (I even use a french dressing). If I do so, I can eat an entire chicken and yet have no BB - I must get high quality protein (at least 35g per sitting) because I'm also into weights. My training is the only thing that keeps me going at times.

Garrett123

04-18-2005, 11:25 AM

I know the clean diet will help! I believe it! I guess I can just be honest and say I will cheat every so often and have the (thin whole grain crust no red sauce) pizza, and the baked potato with butter. Believe me if I would cut everything out for 6mos plus , maybe I would see a tremendous difference- so its my fault for being weak I guess.
I am willing to cut out 97% of what I used to eat.... but every so often I will have that extra carb to keep me sane! What I am cheating with I am not so sure is even a culprit of bb. Believe you me, I am eating so much salad, veggies and some brown rice... and fruit. Its helping alot...

I guess I am more concentrated on trying to find what my/our bodies are depleted of and replenish it ( while on a clean diet ) with what the people with normal breath have that we don't. Its got to be "something"

I don't think my doctor will put me on Salogen... I was thinking of purchasing with w/o an RX over the internet. I feel that maybe my saliva is lacking something, and that double the saliva will help with the breakdown of stuff in my mouth. I need something supplementing the diet, scraping, etc. As I do feel for the most part my bb is mouth throat related. My anxiety and diestion have never been good and run badly in my family. So I am sure this doens't help.
I think Saliva is something we really havnen't talked about much, and is the only thing in our mouthes that are natural bb fighters. I have also read that drinking lots of water alone will not produce more saliva. I just want to cover every and any area of roots or fighter of bb.... anyone agree?

denny33

04-18-2005, 12:26 PM

Hi Guys

Garrett as you know i also believe in the certain "something" that is supposed to be in our mouths, and isnt.That issue lead me to do more research and while doing this I have stumbled upon something that has got me very excited indeed. I dont want to say too much yet, i want to try it first just in case of disappointment. (call me cautious but the nightmare has made it so)
Its not made by one of these fly by night doctors (ie katz) its 100% natural,non toxic and i have been on a chat forum , much like this one full of users of this thing who have "cured" BB,sinus infections,candida the lot!!! All are real people not just testimonials.

I want to read more about it but i will keep you all informed.

denny
:wave:

Garrett123

04-18-2005, 01:01 PM

yes keep us updated Denny! I was unaware of any other bb forums other than this one.
My ears as I am sure everyone here are always open to new approaches to our battle!

later
G

Xevius

04-18-2005, 01:13 PM

it wouldnt be CLA or some kind of fatty acids by any chance??would it? denny?
I remember I once got the impression that CLA was working for me.
(conjugated linolenic acid)

also, want to try diuretics. I want to see why if vometing or diahrea give me a pink tongue because of diuresis....just a thought.

STILL nobody here has told me if they can explain puffs of rotten egg coming out of the mouth every 4-5 min. (like william greene,shimertofade ,me and anybody else i have forgotten)!!!

noon

04-18-2005, 02:11 PM

Has anyone had any success following a raw food diet? I'm reading a book that promotes the importance of enzymes and asserts that cooking food destroys its nutritional value.

Zoott

04-18-2005, 03:58 PM

zoott - If you haven't even bothered to try to cleanse how can you be so sceptical? If your gargles, mints, chemicals and other crap you've taken in your lifetime hasn't worked for you, why are you so confident it's gonna help you in the future?

Get cleansing my friend! It'll do you good.

There's no benifit at all to any of us flaming at each other but I do not recall saying I've never done a cleanse because in fact I have and have also followed strict diets and altogether it's very draining to see no improvement. I'm simply giving my personal opinion on the matter. I'm not saying don't do a cleanse or change your diet because of course it might work, what I am saying is that I'd would have to see some form of improvement well within 2 months to continue. For example if you were on a diet to loose weight and lost not even an ounce within a month there's absolutely no way you would continue.

I'm being honest about everything I try. If something does not work for me I'll say so, if something makes a difference I'll also say without exaggeration.
Lets face it, everyone posting on this thread has bad breath and you like the rest of us are still here.

Diggler

04-18-2005, 05:05 PM

Lets face it, everyone posting on this thread has bad breath and you like the rest of us are still here.

I don't think thats 100% true. Seeker may well not suffer from bb, but is here to help others overcome it, drawing on his own experiences. I think any help offered by people like this is fantastic for others.

blase2

04-18-2005, 05:35 PM

Mya - It has taken me about 6-8 months of cleansing to get where I am today. I now have fresh breath all the time.

As for questioning Dr Hulda Clark’s products - maybe. Her methods and theories - No way. Rather than getting ‘hung up’ on the ‘Super Zapper’ or whatever it was, try to incorporate her cleansing protocols, especially the liver flush. They work, and they’re essential to maintain a healthy digestive system.

Adios.

Well you may be one of those lucky people who could get fresh breath through cleansing. I've been on a near vegan diet for like two years with loads of colon cleanses and liver flushes. Diet helped to some extent but cleanses to me were a waste of time. You feel good after the cleanse but no joy with BB.
No doubt everyone should be eating healthy but it is unfair to expect everyone to turn into a vegan or something. Note that some are in their teens.

blase2

04-18-2005, 05:46 PM

Let's end the flaming here People. It is just that seeker is passionate about his success with the cleanses and wants to motivate everyone. Following such a strict protocol may not be everyone's cup of tea but needless to say - diet should be healthy preferably vegetarian.

blase2

04-18-2005, 05:51 PM

STILL nobody here has told me if they can explain puffs of rotten egg coming out of the mouth every 4-5 min. (like william greene,shimertofade ,me and anybody else i have forgotten)!!!

You may want your doctor to have a look at your Esophageal valve.

garfiola

04-18-2005, 06:33 PM

i wil listen to seeker an start with cleanse

because i always knew the bb is connected with liver because when i was on raw food for 5 months the bb was going away, but i could teke anymore just the raw food, my teeeth were falling apart so i stopped

but i had a lot of pain in gallbladder like the stones were going out so i beleive this is connected with bb

i think my problem lies in throat where all this bb is coming from, like body is tryying to put toxins out and it cant, it is saying look something is wrong

i will try also hulda vleanse, but i read that that salt opsom is not good and that you can do it without

so what do you think

thank you

Garrett123

04-18-2005, 08:28 PM

I don't think anyone here is flaming. I hope those clean dieters who have found success still keep posting! They are inspiration to us all. I think some here just have different opinions of what works for them... as should be as I think we all have different roots of bb.

I think even those successful clean dieters are looking for answers here in our discussions as well. I mean, that even though they have found success, I am sure those people are still curious as to why "we" have this problem. Maybe not, just my opinion... Our bodies are depleted of something... So I will continue to eat clean and hope and research for that puzzle piece.
I hate to say, but even those sloppy people who are 60 lbs overweight, never exercise and eat Burger King everyday, have fresh breath. I never wish to be/eat that way, but I wish to replenish myself with what their body and fresh breath people have to combat bb. So I will always keep that search on and I hope everyone here does too. But I think we all agree Fresh Eating is A#1 to managing bb.

smile guys we are all in this together...

Thanatos86

04-18-2005, 08:43 PM

I could have sworn I heard the parasite/bacteria zapping theory on a radio program. Maybe on the George Nori show.

I can question Clark's thories and methods easily. The last thing people should do is blindly accept her theories - especially if they have cancer or AIDS which require immediate & drastic measures for treatment.

There are several articles exposing her for her malpractice and often ridiculous treatments where she used a device to diagnose a 3-year-old as being “toxic,” ravaged by heavy metals, pollutants and parasites. This little girl had spinal muscular atrophy which prevented her from walking or crawling but Hulda Clarke, with the use of her diagnosis device, decided that the cause of her disorder just so happened to be exactly what Clark treats. What a coincidence!

Not only does she lack a medical degree, but she is also a liar.

The only thing that she might have going for her is the liver flush which she didn't even invent.

Garfiola, from what I gather, the epsom salt is a good idea because it creates a laxative effect & moves the process along quicker. It being required, I don't know.

noon

04-19-2005, 11:01 AM

Garfiolo, why do you think eating live foods harmed your teeth? What were you eating for breakfast, lunch and dinner? Also, what have you heard about the epsom salt? I'm considering doing a liver flush but I do have concerns about the epsom salt. I used it in the past as a laxative and found it quite harsh. Thanks for your help.

because i always knew the bb is connected with liver because when i was on raw food for 5 months the bb was going away, but i could teke anymore just the raw food, my teeeth were falling apart so i stopped

i will try also hulda vleanse, but i read that that salt opsom is not good and that you can do it without

Thanatos86

04-19-2005, 11:11 AM

Noon, how long did the laxative effects last?

noon

04-19-2005, 11:36 AM

It's been a while since I used epsom salt, but from what I remember the effects lasted about 30 minutes to an hour. The epsom salt gave me very watery diarrhea and an upset stomach. I was in and out of the bathroom quite a few times.

Noon, how long did the laxative effects last?

Garrett123

04-19-2005, 12:45 PM

Seeker, sad to see you go, maybe once you get set up across the sea, you can check in!

Denny , how is that research going on your new discovery.. Maybe if we all looked into the research we can come up with our opinions and thoughts! I have also found a career that I think I will enjoy. It requires me to be out in the field on my own... It will be a big change, and a pay cut in the beginning, but I think I am going to give it a go. I feel like I am running away from the office, but I have worked in 3 different corporate america offices with all the same B.S. politics... I think this will be good for me, something to concentrate on.

Eating clean still . Xevius and others, do you eat potatoes in your diet? What carbs do you find are ok, is its just brown rice and beans?

G

ginger65

04-19-2005, 12:52 PM

Hi guys just popped in to put a different perspective on things.

We are either all trying to find the cause of our BB or a cure for it. And many of us are looking for both. From the posts most of us seem to have a degree of insight into to the health related issues that we think may be contributing.
I am similarly doing the same but it is more than a little discouraging to view other threads on these health issues to find that BB is hardly ever mentioned as either a symptom or a problem to others. This leads me to believe that whilst BB can indeed be a symptom of cryptic tonsils, sinusitus,acid reflux, candida, irritable bowel syndrome or periodentitis for many it is simply a minor ailment which goes away or is not a factor at all. What connects us all is BB and the propensity for it to exist in our biological make up.

So I ask what is it that all these other sufferers of these ailments have that we don't. It has to be something fairly fundamental and surely if somehow we were able to find out through even a process of reverse engineering exactly what it is we could have some too. Whatever we feel the negative contributory factor may be the final source and ultimate determing factor seems to be the oral cavity namely the tongue and throat. We all know people who are less healthy than us, worse dental hygiene than us or people even more clinically ill than us but who do not have BB. We all know people who drink alcohol, smoke, eat spicy food at will from every age strand and it doesn't affect them. There is something they have and conversely we do not have that is the difference.

I know research states that for some unknown reason sufferers of BB have less of the good bacteria in their mouth than non sufferers. Is that it ! Why do they have it ?.....how did it get there ?......why do they hold onto it ?. This bacterial deficiency and BB is not genetic so therefore it is an acquired deficiency. I believe that something has happened to us all which hinders greatly our ability to deal with the sulfurous compounds when they finally take hold as a consequence of an other ailment or infection. If we take the traditional view that non BB sufferers have enough good bacteria to keep the VSCs in place then they must also have enough oxygen and enzyme enriched saliva both in quality,volume and flow to promote this balance. So therefore conversely we simply do not. It is not JUST our ability to produce these compounds that is the problem it is ALSO our inability to neutralise their effects.

Cheers.

denny33

04-19-2005, 01:56 PM

Firstly id like to say goodbye to seeker, you have been a revelation,thanks for all the good advice.

Hi guys

Ive done a bit more research on this thing so im just gonna throw it out there.

************ COLLOIDAL SILVER***********************

Maybe some of you know it (thantanos perhaps) but i have just started to read about its properties.

Fundamentaly its a mixture of water and silver (yes you read right silver)
There are a few different makes of colloidal silver but apparently the purer the better ie one called mesosilver. It has been used for years and is concidered natures own anibiotic. It kills about 650 diff bad bacteria microrganisms compared to about 12 with a normal fungas killer.

Instantly after the colloidal silver enters the blood stream after being taken orally, (you can use as a mouthwash also) the particles become evenly dispersed and distributed around the body.
The silver particles are destructive of the cell walls of bacteria,but not of normal cells.
It is believed the silver particles interupt the metabolic exchange cycles of the bacteria leading to the breakdown of their surrounding protein envelope and the bacteria dies.

Colloidal silver is effective against many common and dangerous Microorganisms- bacterial yeast and fungal.
By eliminating these microorganisms the load on the bodies immune system is reduced and the body can go about healing itself more effectivley.

Ok you guys know im trying to find whatever IT IS that is going to allow my body to function NORMALLY, ie to be able to naturally neutralise my mouth (as it should) maybe this will do it. Is the common factor between us all, a particular bacterial fungi which effects the tongue/mouth?

Research mesosilver, which seems to be a pure blend. (as with everything there are other versions of this colloidal silver out there)
Lots more to look at with it, i read it made a lady turn a blueish colour lol
maybe if you take too much i dont know. BUT i have seen a couple of forums with chat about it, it has worked for so many people and not just BB it helps with all sorts of stuff!

One guy had PND and sinus infection making his breath from the nose smell awful and he did a colloidal irregation. His problem was gone in 4 days!no more smell no more BB, metalic taste gone. these were real people too not just testamonials which i am always a bit sceptical of.

Who knows maybe its another dud, but i think out of all the lotions and potions im gonna give this one a go.

Let me know what you think guys.

denny
:wave:

minime1122

04-19-2005, 02:16 PM

Seeker-
Wow. I am really sad to see you go. You have been SO MUCH HELP to this forum and I want to take the time to tell you THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TO POSTS ALL YOUR EXPERIENCES. You didn't have to do that, but you chose to...and that alone shows us the type of person you are...thank you again. Anyway, before you go, can you tell us what brand of Acidolphilos you use? There's so many out there and just want to find what's working for you...thanks again Seeker77 and good luck to you in your future endeavors.

Zoott

04-19-2005, 02:36 PM

Noon, how long did the laxative effects last?

Epson salts effects will last from half an hour to one and a half hours. Be warned, this laxative is very effective and liquifies everything, if you feel you need to pass wind once you've taken a serving DON'T. lol

minime1122

04-19-2005, 02:37 PM

Seeker-
Oh I forgot to ask before you go...are you currently using regular toothpaste and/or mouthwash for your dental regimen or are you using something else? Just wanna know what Brand of toothpaste and/or mouthwash is working for someone who used to be a BB sufferer. Thanks so much!

blase2

04-19-2005, 04:36 PM

************ COLLOIDAL SILVER***********************

:wave:

Sorry to disappoint you denny but colloidal silver was one of the first products that I had tried. I finished two bottles - did nothing for BB!.

blase2

04-19-2005, 04:37 PM

denny33

04-19-2005, 07:22 PM

Hi guys

Just about this collidal silver thing...blase i have seen discussions about it not working but it has something to do with ions and some products have too much and not alot of silver effectively making them weaker, the purer the colloid the better.

I have though also read from others who it has worked for, just like breath mints you got your zox which does what it says on the packet or you have orbit spearmint breathmints that doesnt.
For the sake of my sanity ive gotta run with anything that might sort it out (and i mean anything!)

Im thinking this BB is bacteria based. There are loads of different bacteria,loads.. streptococcus salivarius is a bacteria of the tongue surface,strepto....mutans is of the tooth surfaces..so on so on...K12 was supposed to combat the salivarius one but failed i think because it didnt work for me (a la blase ;) ) joke! but the bacteria exsists so they meant to do something with the product just didnt happen.

If it were bacteria (and it could be one that no doctor has even come across yet! ) would that explain why you could have this problem for most of your life? are you carrying a bacteria that can lay dormant then flair up at different times maybe being triggered by an event ie antibiotics,infection,stress etc? would that explain why so many of us share the same symptoms really, dry mouth,sinus smell,white tongue,metallic taste etc etc the virus is probably of the same in each of us....something to think about..i find it interesting if no one else does lol.

Ive not read much more on the colloidal silver but i will. Im not saying "hey ive found a cure" just something else to throw in the pot.

gngt guys
denny
:wave:

Zoott

04-19-2005, 07:29 PM

[QUOTE=denny33]Hi guys

Just about this collidal silver thing...blase i have seen discussions about it not working but it has something to do with ions and some products have too much and not alot of silver effectively making them weaker, the purer the colloid the better.

Ive not read much more on the colloidal silver but i will. Im not saying "hey ive found a cure" just something else to throw in the pot.
QUOTE]

I've been reading up on that silver stuff since your post and I think it's worth a shot even if out of curiousity, it comes in different strengths.

Xevius

04-19-2005, 09:40 PM

Garret ,

yes I eat potatoes and sweet potatoes too. (yami yami)

Anything that comes from mother earth is good!!!!

where man interveans ...... its BAD!lol

I have managed to talk to to friends of mine about this. Both r girls.
which is good because they can b more understanding. and if they do go CNN on me...then what the heck???better to be known that I am trying to fight it rather than just known for having it. one way or another bb will give u reputation.

once again...I am bodybuilding so it is difficult for me to stay 100% clean right now cause I am putting on weight.
so I need people to tell me if I have bb , so I can fine tune my muscle building diet.

Had I been dieting down to get toned I would not have bb (or reduced to very little) with the diet i posted some time ago.

but need to put on weight. and b careful about bb at the same time

Garrett123

04-19-2005, 10:32 PM

Xevius, you mentioned reputation... I hate my reputation. Thats why I think I am depressed. I hate that when I pass by friends and co-workers, their hands go immediately up to their noses. After so many years of this torment, high school, college and now late 20s, everyone I know in my life has let me know in some way or another that I have bb. How is one supposed to deal that? Its worse than having the stigma attached of murdering another person. I wonder if my girlfriends friends talk about me behind my back, having bb. I wonder how my g/f puts up with it.
My dog has fresher breath than me, and that is sad... He is the only one I can talk to loud and open to his face with no reaction, just kisses and licks...
he keeps me going...
Paranoia yes, truth in the reactions I get is not paranoia, so dealing is hard.
On a different side of this forum, how do you deal with what people think of you. I wish I didn't care, but I do. I do have to be thankful for the friends, g/f, and family that don't care and love me anyway... I think its stressfull being around these people though.. I wish I could be happy as a loner in the mountains. But alas not how I want to truly live.... I want to experience this world to the fulllest! But I've been 10 yrs cheated due to bb. Sorry to sound whiny...

About Collodial Silver, I have tried it too... With nothing. I may have bought the low dosage, Meso Silver you say is the best? I have heard good things about it... I should just take it daily anyway, couldn't hurt.
Denny keep us posted on your progress with it. Have you ordered it yet?

proteome

04-20-2005, 03:46 AM

finally found a reliable self-test to track progress of my bb treatment -
every night I gargle 5mL of pepto-bismol,
the next morning, i take a spoon and wipe the the coating off my tongue
then i quantify the amount of coating taken, and the color of coating.

Whenever sulfur is being produced, bismuth in peptobismol reacts to produce bismuth sulfide, a black solid. Note, that saliva into a cup and mixed with pepto for 12 hours does NOT turn black, and that teeth do NOT have blackness -- only the back tongue turns black.

my preliminary observations with this test:
1. full cleaning just prior to peptobismol gargle does NOT change level of blackness
2. even if no food is taken at least ten hours previous to pepto-bismol (and nightly cleaning) - black sulfides are still formed (less volume, but same color - arguably more concentrated sulfur emission)

tell me what you all think of this, because i feel more like a quack the longer i think about halitosis

(((ECHO)))

04-20-2005, 06:10 AM

Proteome, now I know why my tongue turned black ten years ago, when I was 10 years old.
My mom gave me peptobismol before I went to bed because I was sick, and when I woke up the next morning I saw that my tongue was black!! I was very scared because I didn't know where that black coating came from, neither did my mom. Now I know what it was... 10 years later.

By that time, I was unaware I had "chronic" bad breath. I knew I had bad breath, but I always thought it would go away as I grew older. It got worst!!!
By the time I was 16 yrs old my bad breath got to the point where my morning breath smelled like carcass. Now I kinda have that carcass smell under control by using hydrogen peroxyde and tung gel. But like everyone else, I'm still waiting for the "cure."

(((ECHO)))

04-20-2005, 06:15 AM

Does everyone here have a hairy tongue?

I think that the only cause of my BB is my hairy tongue and PND.

denny33

04-20-2005, 08:35 AM

Garrett no i havent ordered it yet but i will be doing when i get paid.

There are 4 pure colloids out there apparently,

1. Mesosilver (this one comes up alot, prob going to be getting this one)
2. wellness silver
3. kelly silver
4. advances silver

Also you are supposed to take a prebiotic at the same time as the silver to help the process.

I guess it stands to reason that if you flush toxins out of your body (colon cleanse),clean up loads of bacteria,fungi,yeast etc (mesosilver),fill yourself with good bacteria,(acidopolus 8 million) drink loads of oxygenated water (AO) eat well, brush with closys or something simular...basically do everything!!
How can the BB still win!

ciao4now guys
denny

lucky59

04-20-2005, 08:45 AM

every night I gargle 5mL of pepto-bismol,
the next morning, i take a spoon and wipe the the coating off my tongue
then i quantify the amount of coating taken, and the color of coating.

Whenever sulfur is being produced, bismuth in peptobismol reacts to produce bismuth sulfide, a black solid. only the back tongue turns black.

Hi proteome, I think this is a great idea. I'd never heard of pepto bismol.

Do you use the tung brush? And the gel. If so, really interested in whether a clean with this prior to the test has a noticeable effect.

On a broader subject, I am wondering if a strategy for the control of bb might be to keep the surface of the tongue clean of food particles and the break down of tissue. And maybe this means using something like the brush and gel (which I notice includes sodium lauryl sulphate which acts as a detergent and may help in cleaing the tongue surface) after each meal.

I am often surprised at the colour of the products of cleaning my tongue, ie the stuff I end up spitting into the basin.

If as I believe in my case, bb originates from the action of bacteria on food particles etc this may well be the way forward.

Someone in an earlier post said that they'd found the effectiveness of the gel and presumably they meant the zinc, wore off after a week. I am reluctantly waiting for that to happen but the 'starving' of the bacteria by frequent cleaning is something that can't wear off.

I've been using the tung brush and gel 4 times a day for the last week and I am pleased with the results, though I don't have any 'data' other than the fact that my girlfriend hasn't commented.

lucky.

Xevius

04-20-2005, 02:38 PM

I just read in pubmed.gov about colloidal silver. You should give that a read it is as scientific as it will EVER get!just type colloidal silver

Garret, its hard dealing with reputation. But if u have friends that means that ur bb is probably is less worse than u think. U r just so frustrated due to the numerous incidents...humiliations etc at school that have accumulated , that every event is 10-100 times more intense to you even if ur bb has decreased because u know better now. If u have a gf even better. Trust me gfs will tell u if ur b stinks, (in a positive way) they will not sit there while u bombard them with VSC..lol.

Paranoia is a side effect of the years of harsh comments.

My reputation is my reputation ,hard to accept but I have begun to not care.
If the people you want R on your side then u can deal with this.
If u r completley alone then it is a big problem....
counselling is best then....although a 2 week clean diet is even better! for mouth or gut bb.

The other day I was making a joke about a friend of mine that never washes. He is very nice but everybody nknows that he needs to hit the shower. he is still my friend
But I dont mean it in a bad way. Just like that I hope my friends will not mean it in a bad way when they joke behind my back.
There is always something bad to say about everybody. It is human nature.

Now if I got in to a fight with someone and he insulted me about bb ,then he would die, but that is a different story..lol.

We r not in school anymore and we r hopefully surounded by mature ADULTS, if u r not then make sure u R!

keep fighting it is what counts. besides if u r eating right u should have began to see some improvment. check out my diet a few posts back.

I found though in the end that it helps if you r fighting this with other people.
It is better to be known for fighting it than JUST HAVING IT.
would people agree here????????????

Zoott

04-20-2005, 03:50 PM

Xevius. I agree with you to a certain extent but 'it's not easy sharing something as personel as this even with the closest people to you who know you have BB. I've always been able to make my girlfriend laugh and it was through humour that i brought up the bb topic with her. We were out to dinner and I said to her at least I can eat all this garlic and s*** cause my breath stinks anyways. You might think I'm crazy but although it made her laugh it's much better out in the open with your partner however difficult it is to do, at the end of the day it is me who she loves not my breath. It was horrible before when there were sticky moments where something needed to be said. She didn't want to offend me and I didn't want to humiliate myself, all that is now behind us.

Xevius, all of my friends undoubtably know I have BB but for me this is not open to discussion with them, I simply have nothing to gain from them by discussing it even tho they are very good friends. I'm a pretty much a strong personality and the last thing I'd want is any pity. I don't understand why you think BB means no friends or their breath can't be that bad if they have friends. I think the only reason a BB sufferer would have no friends is because they themselves choose to be alone due to the problem in my opinion. I'm pretty sure people will like the actual person, agree anyone?

I totally agree with you on the human nature thing, people will talk about you regardless it's a fact because we do it too like you said. I sometimes think to myself damn that guys breath is bad but I would still see that he's a great guy.

blase2

04-20-2005, 04:28 PM

Hi guys

Just about this collidal silver thing...blase i have seen discussions about it not working but it has something to do with ions and some products have too much and not alot of silver effectively making them weaker, the purer the colloid the better.

gngt guys
denny
:wave:

Do try it and let us know Denny. It is an expensive product (£35/bottle) when I bought it.

Very depressed today and not a good day for my BB. No PND but BB is still bad. There is this girl at work I was wanting to talk to but didn;t go for it cos' of this BB. I wish I was never born ..

I'm waiting for that wonder post in this forum which will end my misery. I don't know what to try next as I've exhausted all the options over a period of three years.

blase2

04-20-2005, 05:00 PM

. I wonder if my girlfriends friends talk about me behind my back, having bb. I wonder how my g/f puts up with it.

I wish I could be happy as a loner in the mountains. I want to experience this world to the fulllest! But I've been 10 yrs cheated due to bb. Sorry to sound whiny...

I understand your pain totally mate. Don't talk about being a loner - look at me I'm a loner and a pile of ***** with BB since a child. Never once during my teens I thought i wouldn;t be able to nail this problem but now I'm approaching thirty and lost in the woods.

About a couple of years ago I was on a late night bus - so it was just me and two other girls. One girl was telling her friend how her boyfriend smells bad and she's planning to tell him. But they were young girls (19-20 maybe) and I don't think older women will discuss this with any other than their boyfriends. So you should be fine there. But i felt horrible in that bus .. believe me.

Lets whine together .. i definitely need it today.

blase2

04-20-2005, 05:13 PM

Hi guys

If it were bacteria (and it could be one that no doctor has even come across yet! ) would that explain why you could have this problem for most of your life? are you carrying a bacteria that can lay dormant then flair up at different times maybe being triggered by an event ie antibiotics,infection,stress etc? gngt guys
denny
:wave:

That is exactly where the research is so slow. They are only starting to isolate the bad breath causing bacteria and the latest discovery is :-

"Researchers analyzed tongue scrapings from six adults with persistent halitosis, using both bacterial cultures and universal PCR. The cultures revealed significant proportions of six known bacteria (veillonella, actinomyes, Streptococcus parasanguinis,Camyplobacter concisus, and neisseria) plus bacteria whose species couldn't be identified, results showed.

By contrast, using Universal PCR, researchers were able to identify those species plus four others that had not been previously associated with bad breath, Zambon said. Specifically, those were species of atopobium, erysipelothrix, firmicutes, and granulicatella, as well as a bacterium called Solobacterium mooreii, which recently was implicated in bad breath, said Zambon"

mearth

04-20-2005, 08:06 PM

Has anyone ever heard of a product called salisan. It is the major ingredient in Total Breath, a product that is suppose to kill the type of bacteria you all are talking about here. It's suppose to be effective for bb.

lucky59

04-21-2005, 06:24 AM

Some thoughts about starving bacteria in the mouth responsible for bb.

For those of us with bb that originates from anaerobic bacteria on or around the tongue, their food source by all accounts is the food we eat, particularly protein and sugar, the break down of oral tissue as it dies and is replaced, and the products of PND.

In principle, if we were to keep the area clear of their food source by frequent and appropriate tongue cleaning with an efficient brush and cleaner this should have a significant impact on the amount of bacteria and consequently VSCs and bb.

Of course we'll never get rid of all food sources but surely it must make a significant difference.

So why might the strategy not work? Inefficient cleaning? Infrequent cleaning? Bacteria and food source on inaccesible part of the tongue? The throat perhaps. Etc.

Unlike trying to kill the bacteria, there is no risk of bacteria gaining immunity.

Any thoughts? This has been my strategy for the last week and a bit.

lucky.

Garrett123

04-21-2005, 03:25 PM

Here is just some info I have found, most we know already... I have the diet down, oral hygiene and all of that. I am really concentrating on the Saliva production. Of course sucking on hard candies will help. I don't know how to go about asking my dr. for Salagen. Even the sugar free candies are bad for the mouth.
I really think Saliva production is something we are overlooking, maybe we don't have enough of it... and if we double the amount, maybe better cleansing will happen. Hope you are all doing ok.. G. Any thoughts let me know!

"Oral factors that enhance or relieve malodor change throughout the day. At any given time, a person's breath may contain up to 400 different sulfur compounds. But the incidence, intensity, and duration of halitosis vary considerably from individual to individual, and even within an individual. The intensity of the malodor determines its detection threshold and degree of offensiveness.

• Halitosis is a dynamic condition that is influenced by the degree of salivation, mastication.

• Volatile sulfur compounds are permeable in soft tissues, and when the quantity of these compounds exceeds the capacity of saliva and soft tissues to adsorb them into solution, real-odor is the likely consequence.

• Variations in oral flora, oral hygiene, eating habits, and salivary flow rates may (or may not) provide a favorable environment in which bacteria can thrive. The right temperature, humidity, substrate, nutrients, presence or absence of oxygen, and pH are necessary to cause bad breath.

• The normal salivary pH of 6.5 suppresses the growth of gram-negative bacteria that activate certain enzymes and cause malodor. An acidic pH favors the growth of gram-positive organisms that produce little odor, and an alkaline pH (7.2) encourages growth of gram-negative organisms."

mearth

04-21-2005, 05:30 PM

It's Salisan- the main ingredient on Total Breath. Saliva production is definitely related to bb. The wetter your mouth, the less bb you have. I'm not sure how this above mentioned product works, but he works with alot of famous people. Who knows. Sounds like alot of you people are tormented. There has to be a cause and reason and a CURE!

Thanatos86

04-21-2005, 07:47 PM

Lucky, from what I gather, bad breath bacteria can also feed off of the natural proteins in saliva as well as dead cells from the surface of your mouth. Bummer.

Honza, if you're out there give us a hollar!

Thanatos86

04-21-2005, 07:53 PM

I can't dig up anything about Salisan & the creator keeps refering to alcohol-based mouthwashes. Why he doesn't also say "this is superior to chlorine dioxide products" makes me believe that his product is the lastest to jump onto the zinc/dioxide bandwaggon.

I hope I'm wrong

ginger65

04-22-2005, 06:10 AM

Garrett et al

I really think this saliva thing is worth looking at if only to eliminate from the search. When our mouths are dry the bacteria have the opportunity to refor m and multiply. Also our saliva (or at least mine) often thickens providing a rich source of food similar I suspect to the mucous from PND etc. I do not believe that properly balanced and enriched saliva could act as a source as it defies what we know about the anaerobic / aerobic oral enviroment. It could be that we produce the wrong kind of saliva in sufficient enough quantities to be an additional source.

We are all told that almost everyone including those blessed with A1 breath suffer from 'morning breath'. This is the ONLY time that others experience what we do. The reason for this is established as being the effective shutting down of the salivatory glands during sleep and mouth breathing exacerbating the condition by drying out the oral mucosa. At this point we have all been born equal and I wouldn't think that our sleeping breath differs greatly from the rest. I draw on a personal example. Having spent many a sleepness night with both my partner and our two little girls I have seen their breath go from sweet to sour and certainly upon waking there is a noticeable odor. My waking breath feels fairly OK to me given my affliction and compared to what it might be like during the rest of the day. Not long after waking and sometimes before brushing their odor has gone and it seems as if some natural cleansing has taken place and a balance is restored. For me this is just the start of the problem. On occasions after waking even after a thourough oral regimen I can feel my mouth dry up, my saliva (for what there is) thicken and a thick white tongue coating appear.

Does anyone know of any research that defines the kind of saliva needed for a good oral balance as I can't seem to find any. Also is there a recognised and accurate test that can be done to measure the composition of our saliva either as a home or clinic based test. I would be prepared to undertake this and share the findings with the thread. Perhaps quite a few of us could do it if it wasn't too expensive and see if there is any link between us.

This could be all wrong but just thought I would put it out there.

lucky59

04-22-2005, 08:45 AM

lucky59

04-22-2005, 09:07 AM

Lucky, from what I gather, bad breath bacteria can also feed off of the natural proteins in saliva. Bummer.

Well that wouldn't be good news, I agree.

I'll continue with the routine anyway as I'm convinced that regular tongue cleaning will have at least some impact on the food source of the bacteria.

lucky.

Garrett123

04-22-2005, 10:26 AM

"The normal salivary pH of 6.5 suppresses the growth of gram-negative bacteria that activate certain enzymes and cause malodor. An acidic pH favors the growth of gram-positive organisms that produce little odor, and an alkaline pH (7.2) encourages growth of gram-negative organisms."

With that said, here is some addt'l info I found...
I am still trying to decipher everything, but I agree I think its worth taking a look into...

Where to Get pH Paper:
Some health food stores and pharmacies stock pH paper. What you are looking for is narrow range pH paper measuring pH 4.5 to 7.5 or pH 4.5 to 8.5. These pH strips to measure acid/alkaline balance belong in every family medicine kit, right beside the thermometer to measure body temperature.

How to Perform the Saliva pH Test:
First, you must wait at least 2 hours after eating. Fill your mouth with saliva and then swallow it. Repeat this step to help ensure that your saliva is clean. Then the third time, put some of your saliva onto the pH paper.

People whose pH runs alkaline often display some of these symptoms:
Bad breath
Cellulite
Constipation
Cold, clammy hands and feet
Dizziness
Fatigue in mornings, hard to arise from bed
Headaches, side of head, temples (migraine)
Excitability of nervous system
Indigestion, fermentation
Introverted behavior, depression
Leg cramps, tetany
Low blood pressure
Paleness
Slow pulse
Sluggishness

Here is just a bit of info... I think I am at least going to try and test my saliva. Thoughts on this topic welcome! G

Thanatos86

04-22-2005, 10:41 AM

I think it was on Bad Breath... Part 2 that I posted a whole bunch of info regarding the types of proteins, peptides and anti-microbials found in saliva that combat bad breath.

Garret, from what I understand, you have to test your saliva several times per day because the PH will be different throughout. Certain bacteria also produce acids to create an acidic environment to aid in further colonization by killing of bad competitive strains. Streptococcus mutans is one such bacteria.

denny33

04-22-2005, 11:44 AM

Hi Guys

garrett thats very interesting re the ph in saliva im looking into it.

ive seen a few products re making body more alkaline
Ph booster
Alka pro
Alkalive green capsules
Coral calcium
also SST saliva stimulant talblets might be worth looking into.
remember acid is bad/alkaline is good.

Gotta go,busy today
ciao4now

denny :wave:

Thanatos86

04-22-2005, 11:57 AM

Regarding PH in the mouth and all other openings into the body, acidic is good, alkaline is bad. Acidic environments in these areas help kill off opportunistic, gram-negative bacteria before they reach your digestive system and cause infections.

Garrett123

04-22-2005, 01:03 PM

yes concerning the pH, I think we have more alkaline ( sp? ) anyway, I think if tested, it may turn out to be more alka...

I think we would be striving for a more acidic pH, like Thano said.

It has been stated that bb is a symptom of alkaline pH.

Maybe we are just finding out the obvious, but if we can try to change our pH's, etc.

The only ways I have found so far are thru diet... I will research to find maybe other ways to change pH.

G

denny33

04-22-2005, 01:09 PM

i dont agree...

You have to have the right balance of acid and alkaline in the body because you do need BOTH, acid tho is bad! (when has the word ACID ever been assoc with anything good?) anyway too much acid can apparently cause a condition called ACIDOSIS. It occurs when the alkaline is low.Have you tested yourself thantanos? Do you know if you have too much acid or too much alkaline in your body? I can see im going to have to get one of those ph level tester strips to check.
Altho plenty of products out there claiming to readjust your ph and balance it out not centering on acid or alkaline just both.

The ph level of our internal fluids effect every cell in our bodies, extended acid imbalances of any kind can overwhelm your body and cause a host of problems mentioned on earlier threads.

All sites ive looked at are saying the same thing. weird.

bye4now
denny.

denny33

04-22-2005, 02:07 PM

im confused i just read the following:

Body acidity gives rise to an environment conducive of deceases.As well as other things you can have burning in the mouth,bumps on the tongue (which i have actually on the back of my tongue, anyone else have this?) and acid reflux which are all assoc with the condition.

An alkaline balanced body allows the body to resist decease, when you have an alkaline body bacteria and viruses perish in this environment.

A healthy body maintains adequate alkaline reserves to meet your bodies nessasary demands.
Lemon is in fact alkaline. Junk food,processed food etc is acidic.
So surely acid is more bad than good?

Why is the alkaline bad, and the acid good then? i dont get it.......

denny.

Garrett123

04-22-2005, 04:23 PM

More info found on pH alkaline: ( guess I need to test first !!! )

An alkaline pH (both number are 7.0 or above) means that the body is stagnant. It is not digesting foods and eliminating toxins. This causes the body to start to decay from the inside out. When saliva pH is alkaline, the body is compensating for an over-acid condition and weak kidneys that can't drive out the acids.

Alkaline pH – Food digesting too slow

Use this program only if both numbers are alkaline.

6.4 is perfect pH

Symptoms: Mineral utilization problems. Toxic bowel, gall bladder, liver problems, skin problems, parasites, body odor, bad breath, allergies, chronic infections and weakened conditions. Too alkaline pH is considered to be more dangerous than acid pH and takes longer to correct.

Start w/ first item and add as necessary.

Liquid Calcium – contains Calcium Lactate, Gluconate, also Herbal CA (prevents bone-loss).
Enzymes needed – Proactazyme Plus or PDA w/ each meal and Protease Plus in between meals.
High levels of Vitamin C. This alone can bring numbers down.
Flax oil – 1 Cap. 3 x daily or 2 Tbsp.
Colloidal Minerals and Ultimate Green Zone; very important for balancing.
Apple cider vinegar – 1 tbsp. 3 x daily w/ honey to improve digestion.

No nuts, no nut butters, black pepper, or cheese (digestion is slow).

Support and cleanse the liver (Liver Cleanser) and kidneys (Urinary Maintenance/Kidney Drainage) especially important for alkaline pH.

Eat a higher percentage of acid forming foods – especially grains, beans, proteins.

Eat lots of Acidophilus and yogurt.

The saliva indicates the digestive organs and what you put in the body. The urine tells us what we take out of the body, the function of the kidneys and liver and the health of the blood.

After you become acid again, you will stay this way for a while to allow the body to rid itself of these acids. After that, you need to work on coming back into balance.

Thanatos86

04-22-2005, 08:28 PM

Different organs, fluds and areas of the body are specifically acidic or alkaline for a reason. The stomach must remain acidic, the small intestines must remain alkaline, liver alkaline, bladder acidic, vagina acidic, saliva more acidic, blood alkaline, tissue more alkaline, etc.

All throughout the body, PH is tightly regulated. Most of our diets are ver good with a lot of vegetables and fruits which provide ur bodies with all the necessary minerals to help regulate PH.

The best way to test systemic PH is to get an arterial blood gas analysis because it tells you more than PH, which is not really useful anyway in diagnosing problems. There's no other way to measure systemic PH because saliva and urine are the two most PH-varied fluids & change frequently throughout the day.

littlelonestar

04-22-2005, 09:41 PM

mya123

04-22-2005, 10:19 PM

I am so glad you posted. I am a female as well and I too understand what you are saying when people look at you confused. I am constantly told how attractive I am but yet at the same time people make comments about my bb. I feel like people think I put so much effort into my looks or whatever and no time into basic hygiene, when that is so far from the truth!! If anything I am obsessed with it! I have this bb that keeps me from being myself, getting involved in a relationship and do things that I really want to do. It has lowered my self esteem to the point almost to the point where I have no self-esteem. My family also tells me that I do not have BB nor smell, so I am thinking that maybe they have it the same problem. My father has PND and I remember as a child that he had fecal breath but he no longer has bb but I wonder if I just cant smell it because we share the same problem??

Well anyways, I have tried Trioral and you are right it does not work at all. Listerine drys my mouth, and my bb problem stems from PND and dry mouth. I find that Clorine dioxide works ok and that Biotene (for dry mouth) works well but not for very long.

(((ECHO)))

04-23-2005, 04:10 AM

Joshie

04-23-2005, 05:57 AM

My family tells me I don't have bad breath when EVERYONE else lets me know one way or another that I do. But I bet they do know I have bb, they just don't want to lower my self steem (like if it wasnt low already!). It could also be that when I'm at my house, I try to cleanse my mouth everytime I remember (and thats a lot). On the other hand, when I'm at school, I can't do anything but chew gum.

Does everyone here has a white hairy tongue?
I've been asking this for a while, but no one says anything.

When I wake up in the morning, my tongue is fairly white. Not full of gunk though. It kinda looks like someone dabbed a bit of flour on it. After a couple of meals, the back of it looks like porridge or something (white gunk).

How do you usually clean your tongue? I use a self-made tongue brush and baking soda. This routine I do in the morning and before bedtime.

(((ECHO)))

04-23-2005, 06:40 AM

Joshie, when I wake up in the morning, my tongue is fairly white too. I also get a thick white coating after I eat, especially if I eat bread. My problem is that I have hairs on the surface of my tongue. If I dont scrape my tongue hard enough, they continue to grow, but I can never get rid of them completly, they grow back after 2 or 3 days.

I clean my tongue with a Tung gel, Tungbrush and a tongue scraper (or a platic spoon) and sometimes use hydrogen peroxide(3%). I was using baking soda to bush my tongue, but it didn't work for, probably because my tongue is hairy.

mearth

04-23-2005, 08:07 AM

ShroudedInMist

04-23-2005, 08:08 AM

I have had my nose blocked about a month due to allergies, and I get tonsil stones pretty often, like three times a week. I don't know if it has said before, but blocked nostrils and tonsil stones might have something to do with each other...

BTW, welcome aboard littlelonestar...

denny33

04-23-2005, 09:22 AM

echo i have the long hairs on the tongue too..it is white most of the time and very hard to make it pink.
No idea why some people seem to have a smooth pnk tongue and mine looks so rough.

Im totally with you littlelonestar, if i notice a man looking at me i pray he doesnt come over to talk because i dont want to see the realisation on his face that ive got BB.
I remember once there was a man that liked me near where i worked. Id see him all the time when i was out on lunch and one day i went into a clothes shop and he was in there talking to the cashier..when i got to the till he looked at me smiling and said "you are beautiful" i said "thanks" in a tiny hardly move my lips kinda way , he looked at the cashier in a funny way and back at me...by then his soft eyes had changed to a "oh my god" kind of look, i left the shop and could feel them looking at me as i left,neither of them even said goodbye even tho they were all smiles at first.....i'll never forget it. i have lots of stories/situations like that, its been a thing i have had to live with for a long time.

Luckily like me, you have found this site because everyone on here is fighting to find a solution to the same problem, we have found out so much already like cleansing the colon,getting rid of toxins,diff bacteria etc we will get this problem licked, so stick with it.

ciao4now
:wave:

blase2

04-23-2005, 09:38 AM

[QUOTE=Garrett123
• The normal salivary pH of 6.5 suppresses the growth of gram-negative bacteria that activate certain enzymes and cause malodor. An acidic pH favors the growth of gram-positive organisms that produce little odor, and an alkaline pH (7.2) encourages growth of gram-negative organisms."

Garrett, I think this is really interesting. Do you have any info as to how we can reduce our saliva pH? ie make it more acidic.

I wonder if just reducing the pH of our mouth by drinking lemon juice for example would help or whether, the vital ingredient in saliva that helps neutralize bb just happens to be acidic.

lucky.[/QUOTE]

I think the first thing we should do is to get some litmus paper and test our saliva pH - say every hour for a week or so. I remember doing this about a couple of years ago but did not do it religiously - so I don't have any data.

If the pH is heavily on the plus side (7 is neutral) then we should look at methods to reduce it by eating acidic foods or if it is on the minus side, we should eat more alkaline foods.

If that is true then that would explain why we sometimes BB is very low and sometimes very high. For eg. yesterday my BB was pretty low, I went out and had a lovely time in the bar talking to everyone - noone said anything. I was eating spinach for dinner for two days continuously (which is an alkaline food).

blase2

04-23-2005, 09:52 AM

echo i have the long hairs on the tongue too..it is white most of the time and very hard to make it pink.
No idea why some people seem to have a smooth pnk tongue and mine looks so rough.

Im totally with you littlelonestar, if i notice a man looking at me i pray he doesnt come over to talk because i dont want to see the realisation on his face that ive got BB.
I remember once there was a man that liked me near where i worked. Id see him all the time when i was out on lunch and one day i went into a clothes shop and he was in there talking to the cashier..when i got to the till he looked at me smiling and said "you are beautiful" i said "thanks" in a tiny hardly move my lips kinda way , he looked at the cashier in a funny way and back at me...by then his soft eyes had changed to a "oh my god" kind of look, i left the shop and could feel them looking at me as i left,neither of them even said goodbye even tho they were all smiles at first.....i'll never forget it. i have lots of stories/situations like that, its been a thing i have had to live with for a long time.

ciao4now
:wave:

Denny,

If you keep a "closed" body language, most men will not hit on you. I can't believe I'm giving advice on how to stop men from approaching you as i should be doing the opposite.. lol. I understand your pain - my tongue used to be like that but over a few years with my strict regimen, I've controlled it very well.

I could probably get anyone in the forum down to 65-70% BB but the problem is following such a strict regimen. Just a bit of advice - try eating fresh pineapple and red watermelon and see if it helps with the tongue.

Do you have any bowel problems?

blase2

04-23-2005, 10:08 AM

My research has uncovered what Salisan is. The product Total breath contains that. Salisan is cetylpyridinium chloride. The other ingredients in Total Breath include: aqua purified water, glycerol USP,sodium chlorate,stevia rebaudiana,natural and artificial flavors, menthyl lactate. It's hard to believe that this condition would not be of interest to the medical profession.

Well if it is cetylpyridinium then we can forget about it (dentylpH has the same ingredients).

It is definitely a condition of interest to the medical profession but it is not a life threatening condition and they would rather spend their time researching on AIDS etc. This is the main reason why the research is slow - it is picking up with the biotech firms taking an active interest.
May be our offsprings (if there are any) will not have to suffer as there would be a cure by then!

I find it amazing how my behaviour and personality changes when I don't have BB.

blase2

04-23-2005, 10:37 AM

Hey you guys I am new here, I am lonestar and I have bb as well. I was wondering what does Listerine do to our breath? I find that my breath is worse when I try products like trioral etc. So my question is simple, is alcohol mouth wash really that bad for you? I want to know this b/c it seems as if porducts like trioral, Closys ect. do nothing to kill the germs in our mouth. How do these products kill germs, and how can other people use Listerine without having bb? I am tired of spending countless amounts of $ on these special mouth washes that do nothing for me. SO I went back to the basics, Listerine. I still have bad breath, but I do not get as many bad comments as I use to when I used trioral. So I am not saying that Listerine is the answer, I guess I have just given up.

Also how many glasses of water do you guys drink a day? I have PND and I know that it is the cause of my bb, but I also read that the more water intake helps to reduce PND. I do not drink that much water and I know I should drink more, at the most I drink three , 12oz glasses of water a day. I am so depressed over this issue, that sometimes I feel like giving up. I have spend over $3000 dollars seaching for a cure, from nasal surgery $800, to Hydropulse $80, Sonicare ellit $100, and countless dollars spend on every bb breath product you can think of.

I am a female so I think it is much worse for a female to have bb. People stare at me and just can't believe that I have this problem...she looks so well put together (cute, in shape etc.), yet she smells awful? I can see the confusion in people's eyes when they talk to me. :confused:
I am so sick of the bone heads who just think that toothpaste and listerine will solve our problem. They really think that I just roll out of bed every morning and opps :confused: forget to brush my teeth everyday...to them I say F.U. :nono:

The one thing is that my family says I do not have bad breath? What is that? I know anytime in past before I discovered that I had bb, they would tell me in a heart beat that my breath was foul from garlic ect. So I am confused, the world tells me I stink, but my family does not smell anything. DO you think it is possiable for ones family to grow accustomed to other family members smell? Well I would like any input that you can give me...sorry for the long post. I just have been reading these posts for so long and finally decided to join in.

Lonestar,

Welcome.

Special rinses are a waste of time and money IMO. All you need for your mouth is tung brush, a toothbrush, floss and at least three types of toothpaste without lauryl sulphate. Don;t spit out the remaining toothpaste and brush your tongue. Also make sure you brush where the uvula is - very gently. That's where PND accumulates. But I'm sure you do all this.

Times are changing. If you see the advertisements, commercial toothpaste manufacturers mention pink tongue and recommend cleaning tongue regularly. Four years ago there was no such thing mentioned.

My PND has reduced drastically over the past year esp. after using AO. (even after I discontinued it). I should also mention that my diet is flawless. Since you haven't mentioned your diet - you should take a look at earlier posts on diet. It is best to have a vegetarian diet (without eggs, meat, dairy and sugar) for BB. You'll have to give up alcohol completely for a few months and then you can drink in moderation.

TBH with you - you don;t need to ask anyone if you have BB. I have experienced fresh breath at times and I just know my mouth is odorless and people come at a kissable distance. Family members.. well they would be sympathetic wouldn;t they? They love you after all.

I am a very good looking man and I get compliments from most people but the same people comment on BB. It is no different to being a good looking female. The only thing that would get your BB down to 65-70% is with your diet and a bit of detox. (at least at this stage).

Keep watching this space and ask us anything.

Thanatos86

04-23-2005, 10:49 AM

Wow Denny, that's bad. I totally know how you feel. Someone showing so much interest and then suddenly reacting badly to our bad breath. I had that happen and it killed me inside. I'm so afraid that it'll happen again that I avoid all women who show interest in me.

It is painful.

chloe_123

04-23-2005, 11:27 AM

Thanatos86

04-23-2005, 11:34 AM

I get Pineapple free here in Hawaii =)

blase2

04-23-2005, 04:02 PM

Lonestar,

Forgot to mention - you would do well to use sinucleanse as well for your PND. But it will go down only if you control your diet.

blase2

04-23-2005, 04:09 PM

Blase, that's so funny you mentioned pineapple, I thought nothing of it until this week. I bought one to introduce it to my baby daughter (introducing her to new foods) but she wanted nothing to do with it so I've been eating it all week and I've noticed a huge improvement with my tongue. It leaves me with a strange tingling sensation after I eat a slice and then I swear I smell pretty good. They are in season now where I live so I think I'll continue eating a slice everyday.
Chloe

Chloe,

Some fruits esp. apple, pineapple(only fresh and not the can) and watermelons do wonders for BB. The only downside is if you eat too much, you poo a lot LOL

My breath is so good today that I just had a "Bombay Bad boy" Pot Noodle (the spiciest) followed by an ice cream and my breath is fantastic. It's my "eat anything" day :bouncing:
I think I should continue on that spinach every other day. I'll start taking B12 supplement as vegetarians have no other source.

blase2

04-23-2005, 05:23 PM

Reading the excellent pH article on dreddyclinic, I've ordered pH strips. I'll post my results of average saliva and urine pH soon.

littlelonestar

04-24-2005, 02:06 AM

Blase,

How long did it take you to detox? Do you still get comments about your breath? My diet is poor at times, and I think that is what is causing the PND. What do you eat on an average day? Do you eat cooked or raw spinach?

Well I asked my dad to smell my breath and he said that he did not smell anything...He gets tired of me complaining about my breath, and he does not think that I have a problem. So I really have no one to talk to about these issues b/c he does not want to hear it, even though it causes me so much pain.

He says that I have changed so much and this issue is causing me to miss out on things, b/c I am no longer willing to take chances. I have even stopped going to church b/c of the reactions I got there. I just study the Bible at home now. I do not feel confidant talking to people anymore. I get tired of hearing people say "whats that smell?" anytime I'm near. I use to be so much more out going and now I am not. Every one that I know says I seem depressed, even people I hardly know say I look depressed. I guess the pain of having bb is obvious to any person who meets me.

About my other family members: I do know that after being around me that my stepfamily (about 5 people) have all bought $100 dollar sonic toothbrushes. It just seems strange to me that an entire family would go out and buy such expensive toothbrushes at the same time. :o

Joshie

04-24-2005, 06:30 AM

Blase,
Will the pineapple need to be freshly cut? Or can I buy one on, let's say Monday, and eat it over 3 or 4 days?

I'm on a pretty clean diet now too. I stay away from sugar, white flour, anything that's fairly white (rice, pasta, white bread, etc,) dairy products, onions and garlics, and yeast.

Is fructose bad as well? I wanna eat fruits and drink sugar-free juices (apple), but if I'm going to pay for doing so, then I'll stay away.

What about artificially sweetened softdrinks without carbos? I'm talking about the ones you mix with water.

Do you stay away from meat? I consume mainly white meat and fish right now, and when I eat pizzas, I buy the vegetarian ones that has mozarella cheese without animalic stuff in it. Red meat is actually pretty gross right now. I think I'm turning vegetarian. If I crave something sweet, I buy Rice Milk (natural vanilla and brown rice) or Sesame and honey bars (contains nothing else). Sometimes I treat myself Soy or Rice icecream, although it contains sugar.

So, what do you stay away from, Blase? What spices do you use?

blase2

04-24-2005, 06:57 AM

Blase,

How long did it take you to detox?

Lonestar,

I've been on a clean diet for like two years now. I do take a weekend sometimes and break the routine. Hmm it is strange that your family members are not willing to even acknowledge the problem. Maybe it is not that bad and you can control it with diet and a few cleanses. Start with a seven day colon cleanse (oxy powder). I wouldn't recommend liver flush as it is a draining procedure. Be absolutely sure you cut out dairy, biscuits, ice creams, cheese, butter, eggs and meat. Once on a clean diet for like one-two months, just break the cycle with one offending food. See if it causes any adverse reactions like increased PND etc. If it does then stay well away from that for the rest of your life.
Depression is one thing you've got to fight. I remember my days of depression - it drove me to do things unimaginable. Try to enjoy - it's not your fault that you have BB.

Do people complain of a bad smell when your mouth is closed or open? If the odor is upon talking then be assured you need to concentrate on tongue and throat. If not then it is your sinus, allergies/intolerances, PND accumulation at the upper portion of uvula etc.

How old are you BTW?

blase2

04-24-2005, 07:18 AM

Blase,

So, what do you stay away from, Blase?

Joshie,

You are, IMO, following a too strict a diet. Onions are not that bad when cooked and good for health as well. White rice is also fine - brown one is echhh! :-)

Don't start on fruit juices or soft drinks in any case. Eat fruits. Yes, pineapple that is cut on Monday and stored in a fridge is fine. If you want to eat crisps make sure you eat the "original" ones i.e with just salt.

Well, I turned into a veggie for ethical reasons and maintain a very good diet without dairy, meat, eggs and sugar. I also work out three-four times a week. Eat a lot of salads without the dressing .. lots of lentils .. green stuff (cooked spinach) ..
I normally cook dinner with at least onion, tomatoes, green chilli along with vegetables or lentils or soya chunks.

Breakfast is normally a fruit with a light salad sandwich (tomato, cucumber, lettuce and brown bap with a dairy free spread). Lunch is normally a salad with crisps.

Banana I believe is not good for BB sufferers .. so use your own judgment on that.

Stay away from Tea, coffee, chocolate etc. Freshly made lemonade without sugar is good. If you have to go out and drink alcohol, make sure you order a drink that is served with lime .. cos' you can suck on lime which will increase the saliva flow.

If I need sugar, i normally eat fruit. I do take one or two weekends to indulge. You would do well to stay away from pizza - pizza is evil. Basically anything pre-prepared that you get in the shop is bad .. even sandwiches.

Make sure you eat spinach/broccoli at least every other day. They are the only foods that contain almost all of the vitamins. B12 is not found in vegetarian diet - so you'll have to find a supplement.

Joshie

04-24-2005, 08:50 AM

I can't eat bananas? I need them for my banana and peanut butter sandwiches! What kind of bread do you usually eat? I buy the type that's made from 100% spelt wheat. The peanut butter is made from only peanuts and some seasalt.

It doesn't sound like you get enough proteins and fats. What kind of crisp are you talking about? Are chillis alright?

** For breakfast I eat oatmeal (cooked in water) with raisins (too much sugar) and wheatgerm. I also take a tbs of fish oil to get some fats.

** I eat the peanut butter sandwich for lunch.

** Dinner is usually lots of vegetables, lentils/beans/peas and chicken/fish. Sometimes I exclude meat.

** Meal 4 can be another serving of vegetables and beans.

** Meal 5 is... Do I eat this much? I'm normally don't eat much after dinner.

Hopefully, with Erica White's Beat Candida Cookbook I'll get lots of nutritients and a fresher breath.

mearth

04-24-2005, 10:41 AM

May I say that the benefits of organic short grain rice significantly outweigh white rice. The latter is overprocessed and has no nutritional value. If you are serious about diet, use brown rice. Also the benefits of squeezed fresh lemons are amazing. If you weigh 150 or <, squeeze a 1/2 lemon in purified water and drink in the morning. Repeat this regime at evening. If you weigh > than 150, use 1 whole lemon each time. Kefir is also a very overlooked product which is good for the body. It is naturally cultured and is an exceedingly rich probiotic. Vegetables are better than fruits fo have them alot. Either steam al dente or eat raw. Fruits are sugary so when you have a sweet craving they will suffice.

blase2

04-24-2005, 01:16 PM

I get my proteins from Soya and lentils. I also eat pistachios, cashews and almonds. I'm not sure about oatmeal - you need something to chew on .. something firm to wash away that morning breath. Any wholemeal bread should be fine (seeded ones may be hard to digest). Do eat an apple for breakfast - helps with morn odor.

Someone mentioned Kefir - god! don't go down that route. Breath becomes horrid .. ugh! Green chilli is fine. Have you tried taking meat out of your dinner?

Crisps in the UK => chips in America :)

Just don't go to extremes with that candida diet or it will make your breath only worse. I've been there.

Joshie

04-24-2005, 01:54 PM

I wish I could eat an apple in the morning, but I have allergies. Can't eat apples, pears, peaches, strawberries, plums, cherries, apricots, hazelnuts, almonds, etc. I do eat burned almonds once in a while, but I get pnd from it. Pistachios and cashews are good. I eat mainly the latter, as I hate cracking the former open.

Have you experienced bb with soy or teriyake sauce? I'm not sure what spices to use. Salt and pepper is boring in the long run, but I know the spicier stuff can make your breath and body odor foul. Maybe fresh herbs would be a good idea to try.

blase2

04-24-2005, 02:45 PM

Have you experienced bb with soy or teriyake sauce? I'm not sure what spices to use. Salt and pepper is boring in the long run, but I know the spicier stuff can make your breath and body odor foul. Maybe fresh herbs would be a good idea to try.

I can tolerate Soy well. Next time when you cook - fry some onions and cumin seeds, add tomatoes, green chillies, tumeric, fresh corriander leaves, and salt and some fresh lemon juice. See how good it tastes. Lemon and corriander are good for BB.
Most sauces available in the shop contain sugar - so i just avoid it.

mya123

04-24-2005, 02:49 PM

mearth

04-24-2005, 05:39 PM

Probiotics have been proven to improve the intestional flora and decrease bb. I'm not sure why someone said not to go down that route. Kefir is wonderful for you.If you look back over past threads, you will see that probiotics have helped alot of people.Also the latest research on soy products have shown that many people do not tolerate them well at all, so use caution. Be careful with apples. Organic would be ok but those sold in grocery stores are very toxic( the apple skin absorbs the insecticides) Check out Dr. Mercola's website. He keeps up on the lastest research on many food products and does not support soy. S2y has been tooted as a great healthy dietary substitute, but the facts on this site speak for themselves.

Garrett123

04-24-2005, 05:48 PM

hi all, well I plan on testing my pH. I found a store in my city that carries the pH test strips. OF course they are out of stock, and the lady said they are back in on Tue. Lets hope, sick of waiting for interenet orders...
( cuz we all know I try something new every week )
I went to a social function last night, no serious reactions, but if someone chooses no to sit next to me, I freak out inside and think they caught a whiff of my bb. My girlfriend is such a wonderful girl... she loves me regardless, and acts very proud to be with me. She says "go talk to so and so, you are in the same line of work as him"
I can't imagine she'd want me to do so with wretched breath. My self esteem has been soooooooooooooo deteriorated by the bb. Plan to start Prozac next week, as I am going to see the dr. I honestly feel I need it to deal, I think it will help with my daily stress, as stress is a contributor to bb for me I believe...

Lonestar.... welcome and YES I know how you feel. I am a good looking guy too, well put together, and I get the same back-ups when I speak, Like... wowah!!! that breath! ... and its coming from you!!!!??????? It hurts, hence I am 28 and been dealing with bb since I was 18. I have many vivid ugly situations where I have been told I have bb.
When did it start for you?

Blase, I have been researching pH, and I am curious to test... I listed some things to bring a more alkaline saliva pH to be more acidic, which is what we want. Liquid Calcium, flax oil, apple cidar vinegar, cleanses, and probiotics.

Starting Oxy Powder this weekend! Can I do a liver cleanse at the same time do you think, or just clean the colon first?

Hope you are all well...

blase2

04-24-2005, 05:58 PM

Probiotics have been proven to improve the intestional flora and decrease bb. I'm not sure why someone said not to go down that route.

Only said about Kefir. It is difficult to digest and makes BB worse.

Probiotic capsules are fine but how many actually end up in the intestines is always a question mark.

blase2

04-24-2005, 06:06 PM

Starting Oxy Powder this weekend! Can I do a liver cleanse at the same time do you think, or just clean the colon first?

Hope you are all well...

First colon and then liver mate. Don't mix em' up. I think you should talk your girl friend - she loves you and will understand your problem.

Where do you live?

PS: During the oxy powder cleanse breath may become particularly bad.

Thanatos86

04-24-2005, 07:05 PM

Garret, be ready, Paxil can cause dry mouth in some (probably not most)

mearth

04-24-2005, 08:05 PM

Kefir aids in digestion and impoves it immensely.

Garrett123

04-24-2005, 08:57 PM

I am aware that anti-depressants cause dry mouth... a risk at this point I am willing to take.

And great, while on Oxy Powder, my breath will become worse. Sweet, can't wait for that!

Since I am in testing mode, I did the spit test for candida.. nothing, the spit did sink in a blub fashion, but no distinct "string" I was wondering did we ever determine if the spit test was accurate for candida?

Even after I test my saliva pH, I think I am still going to buy the 4 things I listed to help make pH more acidic... I doubt it could hurt...
along with the cleanse and clean diet... who knows! At this point I am trying to hit every angle of where bb can stem from. I just have this feeling that something in my mouth is NOT acting correctly to break down the stuff. Saliva was my first thought.

Thanks for the support guys, I feel like you are friends, is that weird to say? I do want to tell my girlfriend, as I know she loves me. I sometimes lately have been talking outright, and trying to get a reaction out of her, a comment or nose rub, so I can bring it up lightly. I can't imagine what I'll say, but something along the line as... I know my b. stinks sometimes.... and go from there...
For those of you wanting a mate, partner, etc... it can be done... I went thru alot of rejection to find her. I have been in 4 major relationships, since I was 17. I honestly think the 3 before her ended after my exes couldn't handle the bb ( each lasted about 1.5 yrs ). But even though I am depressed, I am a fighter and refuse to sit in the house. Even at the risk of humilation. I love my g/f, but sometimes I don't know whats more stressful, lonliness of single life or trying hard for her not to be totally grossed out by me. Even having her and this bb is lonely.

Do any of think if god granted you one thing you have. It wouldn't be all the riches in the world, it would simply be to have fresh breath. Sad but I bet you all feel the same way.

p.s. I live in Florida, USA... where are you all from?

Garrett123

04-24-2005, 09:08 PM

another thought of my significant other...why I am afraid to tell her is that she is the most special of any relationship I have ever had. And the other girls ( since I have been 17 ) have all commented on my Breath. I remember my girlfriend in college sitting in my room, I had just come from the bathroom and brushed, she went into dramatics and was like OH MY God, what is up with that breath? Then after college my g/f would talk to my dog and say, your daddy's breath is worse than yours... and giggle. So these things ring in my head, the past girls weren't right for me, but this one is. I think if I lose her, I'll go over the deep end. So I am prepared to STILL fight after 10 years and hopefully find an answer.
Managing it for now as best I can with diet, cleanses this week, my new saliva test... and Closys products...

later G

sartor

04-24-2005, 10:19 PM

A note to ginger.

Thankyou for your interest. My ongoing investigation into the causes of my bad breath seems to pointing towards my tonsils as being a notable factor in the problem. I am lucky to have supportive family members who are willing to help me with my testing, telling me how my breath is and how it responds to various actions/proceedures. I have discovered that when malodour is present, it can be substantially reduced in intensity (from both the mouth and nose) by cleaning my enlarged right tonsil of putrescent formations (both solid and fluid) harboured in it's crypts. The factor of reduction is estimated to be 50% approx. Further reduction can be achieved by washing the tonsil by squirting it with a mixture of water with bicarbonate of soda and salt (although because the wash will inevitably come into contact with other parts of the oral cavity, these results are not conclusive)

In light of these findings I am seriously considering pushing for a tonsilectomy. The ENT I visited did say that tonsil formations could cause problems with breath, and said that although surgery on these grounds is not generally approved of within the NHS, that if I pushed I could probably have them out. The view that tonsil formations can cause breath problems which can be resolved through surgery is supported by a recent study eminating from Israel in which malodour was combatted by sealing tonsil crypts with laser treatment.

However, although my tonsils have been positively identified as an important factor in the problem, I still think there are other factors involved: decomposition of P.N.D. on tongue, in throat and possibly sinuses; acid reflux, perhaps altering microbiotic environment within mouth and throat, and possibly playing a part in P.N.D.

Do you know for certain that the tonsillectomy has improved your breath? Has this been verified? Also, has having your tonsils removed affected other symptoms associated with bad breath e.g. tongue coating, bad taste?

Was the NHS willing to carry out the operation on the grounds of tonsilolith formation and resultant bad breath?

You mentioned having the proceedure carried out privately - was this due to a long NHS waiting list? How much did the proceedure cost? What about the post-operative care?

What side effects have you noticed from the proceedure? Has the operation created new crypts or similar areas where food substances could build-up within the scare tissue?

Finally, I seem to remember you saying that your main problem of bad breath emerged in recent times. How old are you and did the onset of bad breath occur alongside other symptoms or was it preceeded by them e.g. P.N.D?

Sartor

jung_29

04-25-2005, 03:58 AM

hello all.how do you know if you have bad breath?and to what extent?i suffered for years and years it shaped my whole persona to a degree thats more damaging than more obvious ailments,trust me i know what you're all experiencing.anyway recently i beat this problem(i think) with the help of a nasal spray(beconase) that was accidently pescribed to me for another complaint(flem on throat).i took the spray for a few weeks and my breath seemed nuetralised for good even without spray .but the otherday i ate a trifle and woke up with what i thought was the dreaded bad breath.but who knows as your nose adjusts to any foul smell after a while.

minime1122

04-25-2005, 05:02 AM

Garrett-
Just want to say I am concerned that you are choosing to take Paxil, the antidepressants. Please be careful about taking ANY antidepressants. You might want to do your research on the internet first. Antidepressants, including Paxil are VERY VERY addictive. Once you go on them, they are really hard to go off because the withdrawal symptoms are very powerful. I've read there are alot of people who have stayed on the Paxil because they could not bear the withdrawel symptoms. Plus, would you want to take a drug that alters your personality in ANY way? Yes, antidepressants can give you a sense of calmness and ease about yourself, but it's the DRUG that will be doing that...not you, on your own. I really wouldn't want that for myself. Plus, the antidepressants are not going to make the BB go away, so you will still will have to deal with the BB being there. I am only saying this because at one point I was considering taking antidepressants but then I thought..."whenever I get the cure for my bad breath I do not want to go through the hassell of my body having to fight to get off the antidepressants." Just want to say think long and hard before you resort to the antidepressants. I don't want you to end up having to deal with any more health problems...because this one is ENOUGH! :-) Also, look up "the dangers of Paxil" or "Paxil and withdrawal symptoms" or Antidepressants and withdrawel symptoms". You might be able to get some info there.

TheRanger

04-25-2005, 06:17 AM

A note to ginger...

Hello Sartor,

I had many (if not all) of your concerns about the tonsils being the source of bad breath. Getting my tonsils removed did very little. It possibly reduced the intensity of odor by 10 percent, at most. Infact, some of my worst breath days were after my tonsillectomy. I've been around since the first part of this ongoing breath discussion, so just take a look at my previous posts. I do believe we shared many symptoms.

All that considered, am I happy I underwent the tonsillectomy? Definitely. I would have gladly done it had I known in advance even a 5 percent improvement would have been seen.

Just don't expect the surgery to be a complete fix. Peachpit, who also went under the knife, had little to no success.

Thanatos86

04-25-2005, 07:26 AM

Jung, I know I have BB because everyone in my family has told me so & the reactions I get are clear as day. I was even called "Stink Mouth" in high school.

My breath is really bad.

Garret, one of the reasons I don't even want to try to get into a relationship is for the reason you cite: becoming attached and then losing the greatest love forever because of bad breath. Right now I have become content with being alone as my dreams of one day curing my bad breath are carrying me from day to day. When it is cured, I'll let love in, but as for now I just couldn't live with the pain of being in a relationship and being alone because of the breath.

denny33

04-25-2005, 08:49 AM

Hi Guys

Not had much time to post over the weekend, so just catching up on your threads ..

Blase2 I think ive mastered the art of closed body language! and i hate having to do it because its SOOO not my personality (title of this thread is genius) i make no eye contact,head down..its sad because other people think your a little mouse with nothing to say for herself,when nothing could be further from the truth. No i dont have any bowel problems.

Thantanos...i avoid situations like the one i mentioned before like the plague now.
its a serious confidence killer! thanks for your words of support.
Hey, get you living in GORGEOUS hawaii!!!!! i am very jealous right now lol.

Bit busy to continue research at the mo,but reading your threads when i get a mo..can't wait to order the mesosilver and the ph booster stuff im hoping these two things (esp the ph level stuff) will really make a difference.

denny
:wave:

mya123

04-25-2005, 09:37 AM

garrett

I'm from florida too!

Garrett123

04-25-2005, 09:38 AM

just to verify, I plan on taking Prozac, not Paxil.. But I am honestly depressed. I am the type of person who cares what others think of me, I sit and think about it all the time. In high school, I went from being extremely social and a great reputation, to this. I am depressed and I am ready for the pills. I have other friends that have taken Zoloft and Prozac, and they both suggest it to anyone. I will worry about the withdrawal effects after there is a cure. I can honestly say, even if there is a miracle with bb, I am so jaded from 10 yrs of hell, that I am not sure my self esteem will ever be the same. And like someone else on this thread once said. If I have to take Prozac for the rest of my life to ease the pain bb has caused me, I am fine with that. Because my mental state is not good, I'll be the first to admit.

anyway... so jug, what is your history with bb? Do you feel you had extreme PND and this spray helped you?

And mearth, do you have bb or just trying to help us out? Any and all suggestions welcome... Do you know anyone who has had success with Salisan?

Garrett123

04-25-2005, 10:29 AM

Mya, a fellow Floridian! And Thano in Hawaii... paradise I bet!
See we all need to beat this bb, to get out and enjoy our hometown climates like real people should...
Its hard to feel this way when the sun is always shining, right? ;)