My daughter just turned 5 mo. old , and she refuses to let herself relax and fall asleep. SHe fights it terrible. She can be totally exhausted, but tries so hard not to let herself drop off. Ive tried everything. Even letting her cry for a while on her own in her bed....she wont even cry herself to sleep...I can let her cry for 15 min - 1/2 hour going in her room every few minutes to calm her down, and she still wont sleep. I dont like to let her cry anymore than that, what mother does? I dont know what else to do, shes up till at least 8:30 every night. ANd during the day, forget it, she sleeps a total of 2 hours on a GOOD day....anyone have any suggestions????

Not sure if any of my suggestions will work but have you tried a lullabye tape playing in the background or perhaps a massage before you want her to go to sleep. I had one child that slept long and often and thennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn well there is my daughter. She takes forever to fall asleep and was the one who didn't take a morning nap much and if she had a 5-10 minutes nap when tired her batteries were recharged and ready to go. I never did find a magic solution for her and know that she is pretty much my body double as far as her traits go. She has been diagnosed with ADD tendencies now and what that means is that her brain is constantly engaged thinking of tons of thoughts and it is unable to just shut off so she can fall asleep like "normal" people do . This what distracts her when she is in school too. I can relate very well to that. It sounds to me like you baby is like that. To interested in everything that is going on to even think of letting herself fall asleep. Hopefully some other parents will come up with tons more ideas for you to try and one will work.

I like the musical light up toys that you can get to attach to the side of the crib. I found they worked miracles as they played for about 7 min. I hated the mobiles because just as the child was falling asleep it quit and woke them up. I had the lights and sound monitor for my son and the underwater fish one for my daughter.

I know what a struggle it can be to get kids to sleep. While both of mine slept fine at night it was difficult to get my first one to sleep in his crib for a nap because he usually fell asleep in a carriage or swing then we would move him to his crib. He never did learn to nap in that crib and would usually fall asleep in a chair or on the floor. With my second we made sure to put her in her crib for naps from the beginning and we never had a problem with her.

As for your child being up until 8:30 every night, I do not understand. How early do you want her to go to bed. When ours were young like that I always held out as long as possible that way I could feed them and put them to bed right before we went and they would sleep longer in the morning.

As children get older they do not nap as often or as long. Two hours seems perfectly normal to me. I would put my kids down for a nap at about 10 am and again between 1&2pm and they would only sleep for about an hour, if I let them sleep too long they wouldn't sleep at night. I wouldn't worry too much about it because stressing about them will make you crazy. If my son slept he slept if he didn't he didn't. I once had enough and decided that I would let him cry in there as long as it took. An hour later I was at my wits end and he was still screaming his head off. That was the last time I tried that!

Ive tried lullabies when she was smaller, Maybe I'll give it another shot.
I also have one of those aquariums that attach to the side of her crib,and one of those toysd that plays music and lights up on the ceiling, she loves them butwont fall asleep to them. And she wont fall asleep to her mobil either.
As for the 8:30pm thing, I think thats PLENTY late for a 5 month old that hardly sleeps during the day.
Ive worked at daycares, and all the babies Ive ever watched took an hour to 2 hr nap in the morning and an afternoon nap.
When your child turns 10, he or she is just going to think she can stay up until you go to bed, and thts not a good habit to get into. The same bed time every night is a good habit to get into.

I would like to respond to that last remark about my children thinking they can stay up all night. First of all both of our children slept in our room, one until he was 8mths the other until she was two and we NEVER had a problem getting them to sleep in their own room when it came time. My children are now 7&3 and both have their own rooms. They both go to bed at the 8:30 every night. My youngest has the same bedtime as the oldest because she does not have school to attend. In the summer both of them get to stay up until 9pm. My son never complains about going to bed and my daughter sometimes asks to stay up a little longer, but when told no she heads to bed. I have never had to fight with either of my kids to get them to bed.

So, although routine is good, I found the routine of putting them to bed later when they were infants was a good routine, it also allowed my husband who was at work all day a chance to spend some time with them. Now an earlier routine works for us and when my daughter starts school she will likely have to go to bed earlier than her brother. Though routine is good it has to evolve as your child grows. I'm sure you are not going to put your daughter to bed at the same time for the rest of her life! I find what works the best is not so much the routine but the fact that I said it is bedtime therefore it is bedtime.

That's all fine if it works for your child.
My daughter is EXHAUSTED by the time 7PM comes around.
If she wasnt cranky, I wouldnt care that she stayed up a little bit later. But she needs a routine...and should still have a bed time.
But ANYWAYS, this isnt an arguement on how late our children should stay up. I was simply looking for advice on things that could settle her so she relaxes and lets herself fall asleep....no matter when I decide to put her to bed. Every parent is different http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bang.gif

My son just turned 6 months old, and he has started to go thru this refusal to sleep too. I think it is pretty normal at this age. They are starting to notice the world around them and it is very new and interesting and they are so busy with that that they dont want to sleep.

Do you get her up in the morning, or does she naturally wake up? What time is a normal wake up time at your house? Does she sleep well at night once she is asleep? DO you nurse or bottle feed? DSo you have a bedtime routine besides the time? I know, alot of questions, but the more information, the better to try to help.

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Angel, et al

She wakes up on her own in the morning, around 6:30 AM. Sometimes she sleeps in until about 7:30AM.
She just started sleeping all night recently, and sleeps well once she is asleep....
She has the same routine for bed at night...... eats her dinner around 5:30 PM, we go for a walk ( most nights if its not cold and/or raining ) and we come home take a bath, then has a bottle to go to(hopefullly) fall asleep or at least settle down to. ( I bottle feed all the time ) and by the time 7:30PM comes around, she starts to get tired and rubbing her eyes. When I put her in her crib, i usually play her aquiarium...doesnt always work though and I end up rocking her till she just finally gives in, or I go to bed and just take her with me.
Shes done this since shes been born. And was even awake ALOT when I was pregnant with her.
I dont know, hopefullly it will get better, as long as I stick to the same routine.

It sounds as if you are doing everything right, and she is just at the (first) age that she doesnt want to sleep. Since she has started sleeping thru the night, you might try going to a nap schedule, and make sure she gets up at the same time in the morning (if she isnt awake by 6:45, wake her up). Figure out 3 nap times - say 9:00, 1:00, an maybe a short evening nap around 4:00. Anyway, you figure out what works best for her at this point and just lay her down at that time. If she doesnt sleep after 20 mins or so, then just get her up and try again at the next time. Eventually she will get it. Alot of times a baby that is not getting enough sleep will fight sleep - that has been my experience with both watching other children and my two older children. If you can get her to take an evening nap, you might adjust her bedtime to a bit later (I am thinking no more than an hour if her schedule fits with yours).

Anyway, just keep it up and she WILL eventually fall into a schedule of some sort. Hope things work out for you!

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Angel, et al

Also if you have a very busy household, consider quieting things down well in advance of when you want her to actually go to sleep. Some infants really get overstimulated by noise, tv blaring, phone ringing, dog barking, etc. and seem to take forever to settle down. May not apply in your case, but just another thought.

From a side view, you look like the one starting an argument and if you really wanted good advise, you would want to try something new and not just the same routine that you placed as what your baby should go by. It seems your willing to try what you’ve all ready tried but nothing new.
Another thing is that letting your baby cry it out is a bad motivational advise coming from advisors who say that babies will urine your life and manipulate you. Its called Detachment parenting. You cant place adult problems on small babies. Every thing that babies do are for survival and communication purposes. Detachment parenting teaches your baby not to trust, and it gives him an unstable environment, not knowing when and if you will pick him up if he/she cries. Some babies are more needy, the more needy the baby, the more supportive the mother, it has to do with temperaments. You cant forget that babies are humans with feelings and thoughts. They get frustrated, scared, happy also. Babies want security, sleeping with your baby is not a bad thing, I don’t care what any one says, it increased the bond between both of you and helps you to get to know the signs of your baby. Mothers who breastfeed get in sequence with their babies needs, they wake when the baby hungry before it begins to cry. Isn’t that amazing. Another thing is, how would you feel if you got put into a lonely bed before you wanted to with out any body warmth or security. Especially only 5 months after being use to having it all the time.
I think you should put the baby to bed when you are tired and ready to go to bed and you should bring the baby with you into your bed. What could it hurt to try something new. It beats having to get up all the time thought the night and manipulating your baby to fall asleep.

just a thought...your baby is around the age where seperartion anxiety becomes an issue. I don't know exactly what is going on, but if rocking your baby to sleep is what she wants why not do it? Your baby is obviously not feeling secure enough right now to go to sleep on her own, so give her that little bit of reasurrance she needs to let herself fall asleep. I rocked all of my kids to sleep, and my first two had no problems when it was time to break that routine, my third is only 11months so i'm still going through it with her.

I rock her to sleep every night...and I rock her to sleep for all her naps.


I wouldnt ever just leave her in her room to cry to sleep, I cant stand hearing her cry.And besides that I love rocking her http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

She still fights it pretty bad though....makes me feel HORRIBLE!! But I just keep rocking her until she finally gives in and falls asleep.

Shes 6 mo old next week, and in the last few weeks Ive learned that shes VERY strong willed ( cant imagine where that came from...lol) So we just rock till we go to sleep.

And please flesh_of_daisy, DONT EVER SUGGEST TO ME THAT IM DETATCHING MYSELF FROM MY DAUGHTER.

I HAVE tried bringing her in bed with me and STILL do!!

Oh, and another thing, just because you dont breastfeed your child doesnt mean you arent in tune with her. The reason my baby is even ALIVE is because I was in tune to her. And I automatically woke up every 2-3 hours when it was time for her to eat, and I DONT BREASTFEED. So please, dont make judegements.

Do you even have a child of your own?

Both my girls started sleeping in their own cribs at 6-8 weeks old. I had received a Kick N Play that attaches to their crib. I would place them in there and turn it on, then close the door.(We have camera monitors in their room.) We also use a regular table fan for white noise. My husband uses one to. I always put them to bed while they are still awake. They have gotten into the routine of it. The first few times they cried but now they just know that is the way it's suppose to be. They are currently 3 and almost 2 years old.

as your baby is getting older she requires less sleep...try keeping her up untill you see signs of her getting sleepy...not untill she's crying because she's so tired or anything, but maybe an extra 30 minuntes or so

roni624 Thats a good idea, I was thinking about getting one of those for her, the way she kicks she would love it. I do turn on a fan, it sort of blocks out the noises out in the living room and everything else going on.......

The last week or so, shes been falling asleep around 8pm. ( by that time im ready too!!!! lol) I just hold and rock her and she fusses and fights it, but she drops off around 8. Shes up from her nap around 3 at the latest, so, by 8 shes totally beat. 5 hours is a long haul for a little one.

LilnuTTy - your posting describes my daughter almost exactly! Only she just began not wanting to nap and she is 4 and 1/2 mos. old. Speaking to some friends and family about it, they simply bragged about how they never had trouble napping their children, and just made me feel worse about it. I'm glad to see I'm not alone. I love my little one and I feel terrible when I know she's tired but can't sleep.
I'm not sure who posted in their reply to "not stress too much about it", and that for some reason hit me like a ton of bricks - I think some days I get so consumed with her not napping that my exaustion at the end of the day is more mental than physical! I'm going to try to be more relaxed and patient, knowing she won't be this way forever.
Let me know if anything changes or if you find something that works, and I can try it too!! I'm glad you shared your situation, I sure needed to know I wasn't alone :)

I use the underwater fish aquarium for my daughter and it has worked well for her, but she's had it from 3 months old and she's 2 now. A friend of mine found putting a ticking clock beside the crib helped, the rhythm mimics a heartbeat and calms them. I know before I got the aquarium I saw nature noise machines that play several different sounds like wombs sounds, heart beat, running water, nature, etc, I think I may go back and get that now as my daughter likes white noise too. But I remember her going through a stage where she fought going to bed as well, it's normal, a friend of mine had a book and I rented a couple others too and eventually she overcame the stage before I finished the books. I know I started a regular bedtime routine with her from day one, and have stuck to it regardless of when I put her to bed (on time, early or late because we are out and about) she likes her routine and tends to go to sleep easier if we follow it. Goodluck. It will pass.

try putting her in a swing that plays music and dimming the lights

Overjoyed to hear this is a stage and eventually will pass!!! She does okay at night, it's just her daytime naps that are horrible. I have tried her swing - she enjoys being in it but instead of falling asleep in it when she's tired she fusses until I take her out. Desperate for her to sleep I rock her until she finally gives in but she naps in my arms, if I put her down she wakes up - will this pass too? - Thanks for the responses.

I think she may be used to relying on you to help her fall asleep, those books I read, mentioned trying early on to put them to bed at bed time and nap time while they are still 1/2 awake so they learn how to put themselves to sleep...I had been doing the same things you are, and it took a bit but she did learn how to fall asleep on her own. It is so hard to listen to them crying, I would do dishes or housework to keep my mind occupied so I didn't just focus on how long or hard she had been crying. I'd check on her every so often...in the beginning I'd go in every 5 minutes, then the next night every 8 minutes, then the next night every 10 minutes etc...when you do go in, don't pick her up, I wouldn't even say a word, I'd just lay her down, turn on her aquarium, run my hand through her hair or carress her eyebrow (which I had done from birth) and walk out. Gradually she grew out of it, and now goes to bed with no problems at all. But I know it is so heartbreaking to try and break them of this...just be strong and know that it will pass, you just have to be consistant...if you bend just once it puts you 2 steps back again. Goodluck.
P.S. It could also be there is too much light in her room if this only happens during the day...My daughter did that and once I bought her the pull down roller blinds that block out all light completely it stopped...and she actually started sleeping in later!

My oldest daughter had ADHD and was a handful as a baby. She used to even keep me awake when I was pregnant with her. What I would do was feed her some baby cereal mixed with 1/3 of a jar of baby food. Then when she finished that I would breast feed her in a rocking chair until she fell asleep. You can also bottle feed, maybe half a normal bottle, in a nice rocker until she falls asleep. The extra food should make her drowsy like eating a Thanksgiving turkey does to us. I don't agree with letting them cry themselves to sleep. There is a reason baby's need parents. My kids eventually would just fall asleep on their own after their last feeding, but they needed to eat enough to make them tired. Do not force her to eat, just feed her until she falls asleep. I hope it helps.
Christina

I thought of another suggestion, I remember when my DD started this phase that after a week or so I was told to try and put some baby cereal in her milk. I was breastfeeding but had stored a supply so I would mix in some rice cereal to just thicken it a bit, we had a routine of an evening snack of cereal and babyfood, bath, followed by her cereal thickened milk, and as soon as she was done with that she would go to bed, it seemed to help I figure she was going through a growth spurt and just needed something a bit more filling. I also don't agree with leaving a baby to cry for extended periods of time, I couldn't handle that, which is why I suggest that if baby does cry starting off with a small amount of time that you wait, then go in and comfort them and gradually increasing the time you wait. I only started doing this after her pediatritian told me that she was doing this because she had grown accustomed to me putting her to sleep that she didn't know how to comfort herself to sleep, he told me to let her cry, so after I researched it I tried this method and it worked...but I didn't wait as long as the books said...they suggested waiting for 10 minutes right off the bat which I think is too long, honestly I don't think I even started at 5 minutes....it could have been 3 or 4, then I gradually increased it each night. Also, my DD seems to like having a night light on, so that may help. And now that she's 2 she likes that I leave the hallway light on until she falls asleep...she still has her nightlight but theres something about the comfort of having the hallway light on too.

My kids were on a very strict sleep schedule. We never went out in the evenings if there was any chance we might not get the kids back to their beds on time. They went to bed every night at 8:30 and they knew it. At 8:45 they would automatically fall asleep because they were 'programed' to fall alseep then. Hey, it worked. Also, when they were babies they never cried themselves to sleep. As bad as it sounds, I rocked my babies to sleep every night. It was our special time. At around 2 they started going to bed on their own with no problems and have grown up to be great kids. Both are in college now.

Thanks for the ideas. I'll see what might work.

obviously this thread has gone in several different directions.

i think the answer is that there is no one answer. i have a 15 month old son. he started to sleep through the night@ 3-4 months and takes two 2 hour naps each day. 10:00 am and 2:00 pm. he goes to sleep at 9:00 and gets up at 7:30. he put himself on this schedule and look out if it gets messed up. did we have problems sleeping at first? yeah!!!!! but i took a few suggestions from friends and used what applied to my son and we have it pretty easy now.

we got a room darkening shade (for day naps)
made sure he was always changed
made sure he was always full
made sure he had 2 binkis
turned on the ceiling fan for a "white noise"
made sure he had no fever or reason to be upset.

past that we did let him cry. he would fuss for about 10 mins and be out like a light.

i do admit that when he is breaking a tooth, then the no sleep comes back, but all in all we have had great success.

i have high school friend who had her baby 10 hours before me and he STILL does not sleep through the night and will only nap if she is holding him.

i have another high school friend that had her baby 1 month after me and he still sleeps in their bed, only to wake up several times a night to nurse.

everyone is different. never think your way is not ok.

Nyxin had another thing I forgot...extra binkies...my daughter would toss them over the edge or they'd get caught between the mattress...she had at least 3 at all times, until we took them away...one in her mouth, one on the left side and one on the right side.