Brendap
05-12-2005, 03:14 PM
I have been reading about the possibility of fish oil supplements raising LDL. I know it also raises HDL, thereby, possibly leaving a healthy ratio - however, my Dr. said that if my LDL goes up he would increase my Lipitor from 10mgs. to 20 mgs. My last test was a LDL rate of 133. I know that doesn't seem very high - but I have Subclavian Steal Syndrome and I can't afford even a modest 133.
My last figures were:
TC 211
HDL 63
Tri. 76
LDL - 133
ALT 47
LDL/HDL ratio 2.11
I walk a fine like with the ALT also -- so if fish oil is raising that also - I don't want to overdo it.
I eat ground flaxseed in my cereal every morning and take 2 fish oil capsules daily (or a total of 360 mg. EPA and 240 mg. of DHA in these two capsules).
I DO NOT want to increase my Lipitor to 20 mgs. Does anyone know if the flaxseed and fish oil are possibly doing more harm than good?
Thanks,
Brenda
My last figures were:
TC 211
HDL 63
Tri. 76
LDL - 133
ALT 47
LDL/HDL ratio 2.11
I walk a fine like with the ALT also -- so if fish oil is raising that also - I don't want to overdo it.
I eat ground flaxseed in my cereal every morning and take 2 fish oil capsules daily (or a total of 360 mg. EPA and 240 mg. of DHA in these two capsules).
I DO NOT want to increase my Lipitor to 20 mgs. Does anyone know if the flaxseed and fish oil are possibly doing more harm than good?
Thanks,
Brenda
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mg_health
05-12-2005, 04:34 PM
I walk a fine like with the ALT also -- so if fish oil is raising that also - I don't want to overdo it.
I've been taking fish-oil (Omega-3) pills for years now and they've only improved my results (modestly). However, none of my liver enzyme tests were affected by this intake at all.
My liver enzymes were also, at one time, in the 40s. After taking Milk Thistle pills, they're now in the low 20s.
So, I don't think fish oil pills would impact your liver enzyme results.
Is your AST much lower than your ALT, and if so, by how much?
I've been taking fish-oil (Omega-3) pills for years now and they've only improved my results (modestly). However, none of my liver enzyme tests were affected by this intake at all.
My liver enzymes were also, at one time, in the 40s. After taking Milk Thistle pills, they're now in the low 20s.
So, I don't think fish oil pills would impact your liver enzyme results.
Is your AST much lower than your ALT, and if so, by how much?
mg_health
05-12-2005, 04:36 PM
I eat ground flaxseed in my cereal every morning and take 2 fish oil capsules daily (or a total of 360 mg. EPA and 240 mg. of DHA in these two capsules).
That sounds like a lot - I only take one 1-gram fish oil pill a day. Maybe you're taking too much? Two fish oil pills along with a flax seed diet maybe too much omega fatty acids for your body.
That sounds like a lot - I only take one 1-gram fish oil pill a day. Maybe you're taking too much? Two fish oil pills along with a flax seed diet maybe too much omega fatty acids for your body.
Brendap
05-12-2005, 05:34 PM
Is your AST much lower than your ALT, and if so, by how much?
My AST was 19 and ALT 24 in October, 2004. This past blood test did not include an AST figure...but this latest test did show a rise in LDL and ALT (as posted above) - along with a slight increase in TC.
To respond to your remark that maybe two fish oil capsules are too much -- the recommended dosage on the bottle is 2 pills per day, and the combined dose of these two pills is 1 gram. So I am only taking one gram per day of fish oil.
Thanks,
Brenda
My AST was 19 and ALT 24 in October, 2004. This past blood test did not include an AST figure...but this latest test did show a rise in LDL and ALT (as posted above) - along with a slight increase in TC.
To respond to your remark that maybe two fish oil capsules are too much -- the recommended dosage on the bottle is 2 pills per day, and the combined dose of these two pills is 1 gram. So I am only taking one gram per day of fish oil.
Thanks,
Brenda
Uff-Da!
05-12-2005, 10:17 PM
When I first tested high for cholesterol, my doctor told me to take three grams of fish oil caps a day, or flax oil caps if I was too bothered by fish oil burps. From what I've read elsewhere, as well, flax oil is only second best to fish oil. If it were me, I'd drop the flax oil first before decreasing the fish oil.
Sonflower1116
05-12-2005, 10:49 PM
If you're taking fish oil, be sure you get the pharmaceutical grade for maximum benefits. I prefer the high lignon flax oil (Barleans) and have been taking it along with Black Currant Seed oil for 2 years now and my cholesterol HDL and LDL have improved. I didn't like the fish oil aftertaste. I'm also taking Gugul Lipid in the form of Cholesterol Care, instead on Lipitol, which my doctor first wanted me to take to get my total cholesterol down just a little more.
Brendap
05-13-2005, 07:12 AM
If you're taking fish oil,
I am using about 2T of ground flaxseed in my cereal every morning - NOT flax oil. I figured 1 gram of fish oil capsules every day was enough "oil".
Thanks,
Brenda
I am using about 2T of ground flaxseed in my cereal every morning - NOT flax oil. I figured 1 gram of fish oil capsules every day was enough "oil".
Thanks,
Brenda
Lenin
05-13-2005, 09:44 AM
Brenda,Goodness I never REALIZED that Subclavian Steal was so prevalent:
In the US: The Joint Study of Extracranial Arterial Occlusion reported a 17% incidence of subclavian or innominate artery stenosis but angiographic steal occurred in only 2.5% (168/6534) of cases; of those with angiographic steal, 80% had associated extracranial obstructions and 5.3% (9/168) had neurologic symptoms.
A 6.4% incidence of SSP was observed in 500 asymptomatic patients with neck bruits undergoing Doppler US and subclavian steal test (to provoke vertebral artery flow reversal).
In 680 symptomatic patients examined with angiography, 23% had severe proximal subclavian disease or occlusion with 6% showing reversed vertebral artery flow
Is there nothing that can be done percutaneously to open up that vertebral artery.
The reverse flows in up to 4 arteries to compensate for the blockage is fascinating and tribute to our bodies' adaptability. One wouldn't think that arteries could EVER switch flow BACK to the heart, but they do!
I take 5 grams of fish oil and I feel that is small potatoes compared even to eating a nice 6 ounce salmon filet which yields 13 GRAMS of fish oil!
I am so surprised that with 10 mg. Lipitor you aren't getting better than 211 TC. Can you add a little niacin? I'm improving my picture a little with adding about 500 mg. fast flush niacin to my 10 mg. Lipitor but then I need the boost in HDL and you really don't.
Are you doing all the lower LDL stuff like lowering saturated fats and eliminating trans fats, keeping body-weight low, and exercising?
If all else fails, I think your condition calls for the Lipitor increase...and of course, daily aspirin (take 2, they're small;))
In the US: The Joint Study of Extracranial Arterial Occlusion reported a 17% incidence of subclavian or innominate artery stenosis but angiographic steal occurred in only 2.5% (168/6534) of cases; of those with angiographic steal, 80% had associated extracranial obstructions and 5.3% (9/168) had neurologic symptoms.
A 6.4% incidence of SSP was observed in 500 asymptomatic patients with neck bruits undergoing Doppler US and subclavian steal test (to provoke vertebral artery flow reversal).
In 680 symptomatic patients examined with angiography, 23% had severe proximal subclavian disease or occlusion with 6% showing reversed vertebral artery flow
Is there nothing that can be done percutaneously to open up that vertebral artery.
The reverse flows in up to 4 arteries to compensate for the blockage is fascinating and tribute to our bodies' adaptability. One wouldn't think that arteries could EVER switch flow BACK to the heart, but they do!
I take 5 grams of fish oil and I feel that is small potatoes compared even to eating a nice 6 ounce salmon filet which yields 13 GRAMS of fish oil!
I am so surprised that with 10 mg. Lipitor you aren't getting better than 211 TC. Can you add a little niacin? I'm improving my picture a little with adding about 500 mg. fast flush niacin to my 10 mg. Lipitor but then I need the boost in HDL and you really don't.
Are you doing all the lower LDL stuff like lowering saturated fats and eliminating trans fats, keeping body-weight low, and exercising?
If all else fails, I think your condition calls for the Lipitor increase...and of course, daily aspirin (take 2, they're small;))
happybunny
05-13-2005, 12:14 PM
One little question....
Why not just eat oily fish? 2-3 portions a week can give very good levels of the omega-3, just spread the portions over the week. Personally I hate mackerel but I eat fresh salmon, tinned wild salmon, sardines, trout and find that they are so easy to prepare. 100g is a reasonable portion.
Fish Type............Quantity of omega-3 fatty acid
mackerel .............2.5 g /100g
herring ................1.6 g /100g
sardines ...............2.5 g/100g
salmon .................1.8 g/100g
Why not just eat oily fish? 2-3 portions a week can give very good levels of the omega-3, just spread the portions over the week. Personally I hate mackerel but I eat fresh salmon, tinned wild salmon, sardines, trout and find that they are so easy to prepare. 100g is a reasonable portion.
Fish Type............Quantity of omega-3 fatty acid
mackerel .............2.5 g /100g
herring ................1.6 g /100g
sardines ...............2.5 g/100g
salmon .................1.8 g/100g
Brendap
05-13-2005, 09:03 PM
Brenda,Goodness I never REALIZED that Subclavian Steal was so prevalent:
Is there nothing that can be done percutaneously to open up that vertebral artery.
I am so surprised that with 10 mg. Lipitor you aren't getting better than 211 TC.
Lenin:
Actually I have been doing good keeping things under control and below 200, however, it sort of edged up on me as did my LDL during this past blood test. In order to avoid a higher dose of Lipitor, I thought I would try to add "more" fish oil to my diet -- but was afraid it might increase the LDL rather than decrease it. I have read conflicting reports along that line.
I was diagnosed with high cholesterol (TC 300+ - Triglycerides 1001 !!) in 1988 and sort of half heartedly tried to lower it; but when my Subsclavian Steal was diagnosed in 1996, it instantly got my attention. I lost 30 lbs. and went on lipitor and started getting a yearly doppler on my Steal. I am also in the gym every other day without fail. It has not worsened since the diagnosis. My Dr. says that as long as I watch things I might be OK. I am totally asymptomatic. If it weren't for the neck bruit that someone just stumbled upon, I would never have even known it.
When and if I develop symptoms (dizziness when using my arm, blurred vision, among other things) -- the Vascular Surgeon will stint it. Sometimes, they are difficult to reach though from what I understand.
Thanks for everyone's advice.
Brenda
Is there nothing that can be done percutaneously to open up that vertebral artery.
I am so surprised that with 10 mg. Lipitor you aren't getting better than 211 TC.
Lenin:
Actually I have been doing good keeping things under control and below 200, however, it sort of edged up on me as did my LDL during this past blood test. In order to avoid a higher dose of Lipitor, I thought I would try to add "more" fish oil to my diet -- but was afraid it might increase the LDL rather than decrease it. I have read conflicting reports along that line.
I was diagnosed with high cholesterol (TC 300+ - Triglycerides 1001 !!) in 1988 and sort of half heartedly tried to lower it; but when my Subsclavian Steal was diagnosed in 1996, it instantly got my attention. I lost 30 lbs. and went on lipitor and started getting a yearly doppler on my Steal. I am also in the gym every other day without fail. It has not worsened since the diagnosis. My Dr. says that as long as I watch things I might be OK. I am totally asymptomatic. If it weren't for the neck bruit that someone just stumbled upon, I would never have even known it.
When and if I develop symptoms (dizziness when using my arm, blurred vision, among other things) -- the Vascular Surgeon will stint it. Sometimes, they are difficult to reach though from what I understand.
Thanks for everyone's advice.
Brenda
Lenin
05-13-2005, 10:16 PM
happybunny,
My technique is to eat about 5 servings of fish a week AND take 5 grams of cod liver oil/day.
I am playing ALL the angles trying to avoid a bypass!:D
My technique is to eat about 5 servings of fish a week AND take 5 grams of cod liver oil/day.
I am playing ALL the angles trying to avoid a bypass!:D
happybunny
05-17-2005, 04:13 PM
Lenin.
As cod is a "white" fish then surely cod liver oil will be increasing your daily fat without majorly benefitting your omega 3 levels? I admire your ability to take the horrible stuff though! When I tried cod liver oil for my joints ages ago, I hated the stuff so much - I used to belch fish taste up, ugh - that my husband took the bottle and threw it over the fence!!! Not nice.
I just stick to salmon etc. Cajun salmon - now that is nice. :bouncing: Bit of hot to get the endorphins buzzin'.
But lenin - I agree - anything to avoid a bypass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As cod is a "white" fish then surely cod liver oil will be increasing your daily fat without majorly benefitting your omega 3 levels? I admire your ability to take the horrible stuff though! When I tried cod liver oil for my joints ages ago, I hated the stuff so much - I used to belch fish taste up, ugh - that my husband took the bottle and threw it over the fence!!! Not nice.
I just stick to salmon etc. Cajun salmon - now that is nice. :bouncing: Bit of hot to get the endorphins buzzin'.
But lenin - I agree - anything to avoid a bypass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lenin
05-17-2005, 04:53 PM
happybunny,
Cod Liver Oil is quite high in EPA and DHA Omega-3 oils. Five Grams CLO gives me 900 mg EPA and 600 mg DHA.
I also cook with Canola oil and I use Smart Beat (Canola oil margerine..no trans fats) so I'm getting a whopping amount of ALA (vegetable omega-3) on top of that.
Maybe the cod's LIVER isn't white:D:D:D!
Cod Liver Oil is quite high in EPA and DHA Omega-3 oils. Five Grams CLO gives me 900 mg EPA and 600 mg DHA.
I also cook with Canola oil and I use Smart Beat (Canola oil margerine..no trans fats) so I'm getting a whopping amount of ALA (vegetable omega-3) on top of that.
Maybe the cod's LIVER isn't white:D:D:D!
Uff-Da!
05-17-2005, 06:10 PM
Brenda, have you considered adding psillium instead of adding fish oil? This won't help vegetarians, but if you are getting dietary cholesterol from animal products, it is likely to help. I just did a search for studies about psillium and cholesterol, and this comes from one of the first items referenced:
Following eight weeks of treatment, the researchers found that patients taking psyllium supplementation had an additional six percent reduction in LDL cholesterol compared to those taking the 10 mg statin drug alone.
There have also been studies done on lowering cholesterol with psillium but no statin. I recall reading one where I believe the result was about ten percent lowering of cholesterol with a heaping teaspoon of psillium (Metamucil) in a cup of water three times a day. I don't want to take the time to find that again now, but if the idea interests you, you could probably locate it with an appropriate search.
Following eight weeks of treatment, the researchers found that patients taking psyllium supplementation had an additional six percent reduction in LDL cholesterol compared to those taking the 10 mg statin drug alone.
There have also been studies done on lowering cholesterol with psillium but no statin. I recall reading one where I believe the result was about ten percent lowering of cholesterol with a heaping teaspoon of psillium (Metamucil) in a cup of water three times a day. I don't want to take the time to find that again now, but if the idea interests you, you could probably locate it with an appropriate search.
Brendap
05-17-2005, 07:37 PM
Brenda, have you considered adding psillium instead of adding fish oil?
Thanks for the suggestion - but I have been down that road. I am one of those people that can NOT take psillium. I am constipated by nature anyway -- and psillium just compounds that problem beyond belief -- no matter how much water I drink. My gastro Dr. and Primary Dr. told me to stay away from it. I took it for a year before I realized it wasn't going to work -- and in that time there was no lowering of my cholesterol.
I have been battling elevated cholesterol for years with blood work every 4 months religiously so I have figured out what works and what doesn't. My problem is carbohydrates. I can eat meat every day and my cholesterol doesn't budge -- but let me start on sweets or bread or potatoes and watch out. HA That is why I thought I would try adding fish oil to my diet -- since I am not a fish eater. Canned tuna once in a while is all I can get down.
I stay away from trans fats and read every label I put in my cart. No store bought cookies or sweets or anything else with partially hydrogenated anything in it.
I usually manage to maintain my cholesterol level watching what I eat and exercising and taking 10 mg. Lipitor...but this past test showed that I never can ease off diet restrictions.
Thanks for the suggestion though.
Brenda
Thanks for the suggestion - but I have been down that road. I am one of those people that can NOT take psillium. I am constipated by nature anyway -- and psillium just compounds that problem beyond belief -- no matter how much water I drink. My gastro Dr. and Primary Dr. told me to stay away from it. I took it for a year before I realized it wasn't going to work -- and in that time there was no lowering of my cholesterol.
I have been battling elevated cholesterol for years with blood work every 4 months religiously so I have figured out what works and what doesn't. My problem is carbohydrates. I can eat meat every day and my cholesterol doesn't budge -- but let me start on sweets or bread or potatoes and watch out. HA That is why I thought I would try adding fish oil to my diet -- since I am not a fish eater. Canned tuna once in a while is all I can get down.
I stay away from trans fats and read every label I put in my cart. No store bought cookies or sweets or anything else with partially hydrogenated anything in it.
I usually manage to maintain my cholesterol level watching what I eat and exercising and taking 10 mg. Lipitor...but this past test showed that I never can ease off diet restrictions.
Thanks for the suggestion though.
Brenda
Lenin
05-18-2005, 09:53 AM
Brenda,
Overall, I doubt that any amount of fish oil will increase LDL. I think that at worst it will be completely neutral for some people and thus a waste of money. "Your Mileage May Vary."
I think it's doubly important for somebody who "hates fish." ) though I can't conceive the concept:D:D)
Overall, I doubt that any amount of fish oil will increase LDL. I think that at worst it will be completely neutral for some people and thus a waste of money. "Your Mileage May Vary."
I think it's doubly important for somebody who "hates fish." ) though I can't conceive the concept:D:D)
Uff-Da!
05-18-2005, 11:36 AM
I've just read some summaries of research on fish oil. Though it seems to improve the ratio of LDL to HDL and improve triglycerides, there seems to be mixed results with regard to its effects on LDL total, with some showing it raised significantly. I found an interesting summary of an article, though, that combining fish oil with garlic supplementation, lowered blood levels of total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, and triglycerides as well as improving the ratios of total cholesterol to HDL cholesterol and LDL to HDL cholesterol. That was from a study reported in American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 65, February 1997, pp. 445-50, by Adler, Adam J. and Holub, Bruce J. and titled Effect of garlic and fish-oil supplementation on serum lipid and lipoprotein concentrations in hypercholesterolemic men.
JJ
05-18-2005, 12:24 PM
I use to take Omega fish oil about 2 years ago, but it did raise my LDL quite abit so I stopped. I also take garlic pills, so I must be one of the weird ones, what else is new.... :confused: Now I just try to get my fish oil eating more tuna. Sometimes I just give up.... :yawn: