This is my first post on these boards, been lurking though. For the last couple of yrs my readings have been pretty much the same, high.
Jan. of this year they were as follows
TC-257
HDL-53
LDL-191
TRI-77
After putting it off for years, the doc convinced me to take Lipitor, so I said I will take a very little amount, so he put me on 5mg per day. I did this plus I took 4 tablespoons ground flax seed with my oatmeal or cold cereal 6 days per wk, and also lecethin, garlic capsules, flax seed oil, and a multi vitamin (Centrum Silver) I am 62 yrs old. I took another test the 17th of this month, and here are the results.
TC-190
HDL-51
LDL-130
TRI-52
Doc wanted to put me on 10mg of Lipitor because of the ldl reading of 130, but I told him that I will not do this. In my opinion, these readings to me are just not that bad, I am very satisfied with the results. I know the ldl is 130, but that sure is a lot better than 191, or 208 like it was in 2002.
I am just curious if some of you experts agree with me, or if I am barking up the wrong tree. Also, what's your opinion on the low triglicerides at 52, this seems lower than I've normally seen. Another thing, I'm guilty of not exercising, I am walking and on the go a lot, but no routine exercise for about the last 10 yrs. In all honesty, I pretty much ate what I wanted, but I don't think I was abusive on the fats. Thanks for any input.

Woodsman,

Welcome to the board. I completely agree with you. Your numbers are fine. Just tell the doc "no dice" to the 10mg. I swear, sometimes I think these doctors are crazy!

Woodsman..If U got those good results from 5 mgs. and all the other stuff U have been taking, I also see NO reason for your dr. to up the dose. Keep doing what U have been doing, and congrats. on such a nice reduction in your numbers....... :)

woodsman,

I'd say it's a toss-up. If you have no risk-factors, stay with the 5mg. With any two factors like hypertension, either parent having heart disease before 60 (or both parents getting it EVER), diabetes, smoking, etc., then taking it below 130 is a good idea...unfortunately age 62 is ALREADY ONE risk factor..:eek: <for real!:D>
Of course, with any angina or proven heart disease, then under 100 is the better LDL.

Triglycerides are superb. But unless I miss my guess, since LDL is calculated using triglycerides in the formula the lower triglycerides cause the LDL to be underestimated...someone can correct me if I'm wrong here but I THINK I have it right.
Thus your REAL LDL might be somewhat higher than reported.

If age 62 is your only risk factor than your numbers are fine!

Woodsman,

Your numbers on 5mg of Lipitor are fine. I would not take the 10mg dose - the extra benefit is marginal, and why risk the side effects?

Do some independent study on the true relationship between cholesterol levels and heart disease, because it is not nearly as strong a relationship as you may think. I'm afraid that many are allowing their doctors to blindly subscribe high levels of statins, and are actually pushing their cholesterol levels down to dangerously low levels. Cholesterol is a vital substance in the body - pushing it too low has risks.

Ten years ago your current numbers would have been well within guidelines. Nine out of the ten members on the panel that set the cholesterol guidelines have financial ties to the pharmaceutical companies that produce cholesterol meds - how impartial could their votes have been?

I wouldn't worry about my numbers if I were you... I'd worry about the LDL/HDL ratio, and about reducing inflammation - which could be a much greater predictor of CHD than cholesterol.

I'd take CoQ10, Omega-3 Fish Oil, Folic Acid, Ester-E, Vitamin-C and L-Lysine, and try to go to no higher than 5mg Lipitor. Many are suspecting that the real benefit of statins is in their anti-inflammatory properties - and that this benefit could be achieved with a much lower dose.

HubbleRules
:cool:

Thanks everyone, for your input. I forgot to mention that I did agree with the doc to continue taking the 5mg of Lipitor, but no 10mg. The doc put up no argument about this, actually he is a pretty nice guy, and respects my opinion.
Lenin- I really don't have any risk factors that you mention. I've never smoked, and I hav'nt drank in 21 yrs, my Dad lived to 82, and my Mother passed away at 89, so my biggest risk factor is being 62 (actually 62 next month).I am going to continue on eating as I have, and I've changed the flax seed oil to omega-3 fish oil about a wk ago.
One question I forgot to ask is, with my Quaker oat meal I take four tblspoons of ground flax seed, a bannana, and honey. what about the honey, is this possibly a no no? Just to mention, with the 5mg of Lipitor, I can't detect any side effects as some of the people here have. I've mentioned that I have no regular exercise routine, but I definetly am no couch potato.
Thanks again everyone, for your input, this forum is really helpful.

Woodsman,


Providing you are not diabetic, using a little bit of honey on your oatmeal shouldn't be a problem. And your triglycerides are fine, so I wouldn't worry about it. For breakfast, I usually alternate between eggs and oatmeal. With oatmeal, you really have to add something to it in order for it to taste good, right? I usually eat it with raisins, topped with sugar-free syrup. I always used to use Atkins maple syrup, but unfortunately they no longer make it, so I switched to some other brand. I guess this has become a habit with me, since my father is diabetic. So there are a lot of sugar-free items around the house. But I wouldn't worry about that small amount of honey you put on your oatmeal.

ARIZONA73,

Yes, I agree with the decorating up the oatmeal. With 1% milk, honey, sliced up bananna, and adding the ground up flax seed makes a very tasty bowl. Once or twice during the week I put the same toppings on cold cereal, either oatmeal squares, or cracklin oat bran, which really tastes delicious. As for the oatmeal, I eat 1 1/2 servings for each meal. I was really concerned about eating eggs until somebody on this forum ask about them. All the input was positive for the eggs, now when we eat out I can eat the eggs, and not be concerned about it.

Woodsman,


The interesting thing about eggs is that they actually do have many benefits although high in cholesterol.
I have heard of people with kids that have ADHD and many have eliminated their meds with 2 eggs every morning.
I used tobe a weight lifter/body builder and ate eggs for years along with some fish to build very lean muscle mass. Nothing could work better. Even now I still have the benefits from those years in muscle firmness and I am now 49.
If one works and is physically active I do not think eggs are the evil empire that many make them out to be.
The Amish around here eat eggs nd sausage every day practically but they work hard as well.
Its all in perspective, I guess.

Actually, I have my own opinion about dairy products and I think that cheese is the real monster (my opinion)

Stumper,

I'll go even farther. I have a nagging suspicion that the huge butterfat consumption in the U.S. goes a LONG way towards keeping our arteries plugged. Battling cheese intake (I crave it) is very hard for me. I could eat cheese and cream all day, every day!
Sort of odd because I'm lactose sensitive...WAS completely lactose intolerant for at least 30 years but it's eased up a bit. But CHEESE and any fermented dairy has always gone down smoothly <and STAYED down> and I always overdid it. On Atkins, before my stent, I'd scarf down 4-6 ounces of brie while watching TV more often than not! Got EXPENSIVE, in more ways than one:(!
My mother drank a pint of light cream every day of her life til she was diagnosed with completely cloged arteries and later died of congestive heart failure.
I guess I inherited my lactose intolerance from my father whom I NEVER saw drink a sip of milk in his 66 years!

Yep, Dairy is NOT our friend unless we MOOO!:D:D:D

Lenin,

Well, I don't think I would completely agree with that. After all, prior to the invention of margarine, people were eating much more butter and lard, and the incidence of heart disease was much lower than it is today. I think more harm than good was done when people were told not to use butter and lard, and instead ended up substituting margarine and hydrogenated fats. I see no problem with eating cheese (preferably real cheese, not the processed kind), except I don't think it's a good idea to overdo it or make a meal out of it. It can be much too constipating. :eek:

Stumper,

I'll go even farther. I have a nagging suspicion that the huge butterfat consumption in the U.S. goes a LONG way towards keeping our arteries plugged. Battling cheese intake (I crave it) is very hard for me. I could eat cheese and cream all day, every day!
Sort of odd because I'm lactose sensitive...WAS completely lactose intolerant for at least 30 years but it's eased up a bit. But CHEESE and any fermented dairy has always gone down smoothly <and STAYED down> and I always overdid it. On Atkins, before my stent, I'd scarf down 4-6 ounces of brie while watching TV more often than not! Got EXPENSIVE, in more ways than one:(!
My mother drank a pint of light cream every day of her life til she was diagnosed with completely cloged arteries and later died of congestive heart failure.
I guess I inherited my lactose intolerance from my father whom I NEVER saw drink a sip of milk in his 66 years!

Yep, Dairy is NOT our friend unless we MOOO!:D:D:D


Lenin,

Yes I agree 100%. If you look at cheese closely it has a reall stickiness to it. Now I think some cheeses may actually be better than others for consumption and less artery clogging [like swiss] but all that gooiness goes into our system and into our blood.
I guess I just have a personal belief that dairy products especially cheese cause alot of arterial blocking, and my doctor tells me to avoid them as well.
But he also tells me to avoid eggs and I think its a bunch of hooey :D :D Everyone seems to know an "old guy" who lived to be 100 years old and ate eggs and sausage every day out of the same pan (which was never washed) :D


Did your mother drink the store boughten cream or her own homemade kind? Very curious.

Lenin,

Well, I don't think I would completely agree with that. After all, prior to the invention of margarine, people were eating much more butter and lard, and the incidence of heart disease was much lower than it is today. I think more harm than good was done when people were told not to use butter and lard, and instead ended up substituting margarine and hydrogenated fats. I see no problem with eating cheese (preferably real cheese, not the processed kind), except I don't think it's a good idea to overdo it or make a meal out of it. It can be much too constipating. :eek:



Arizona,

You bring up a good point here.The idea that cheese can be constipating {and it indeed is} would tell me that it cannot be real good.
It has to be absorbed into the blood at one point or another.


But keep in mind also that many years ago people worked much harder physically than they do today, so that can be a factor as well. :)

ARIZONA,
I am very UNFOND of the common parlance of the rarity of heart disease in the "good old days."
With today's diagnostic procedures, I'm sure a HUGE proportion of those who died "of natural causes", "peacefully in his sleep", "of pneumonia", "hardening of the arteries", "his heart just gave out," "old age" (at 68), "of sugar" (diabetes) would have been found to have actually died of heart disease, possibly after sufffering for years. My fave of the euphemism's is of course NATURAL CAUSES. :bouncing:

I DO think today's heart disease rates are much elevated and I attribute it to ONE thing...increasing obesity because of more calories and more saturated fat consumption caused by the ability of EVERYONE (in rich countries, of course) to eat huge quantiuties of meat, butter, and cheese when in the past the same segments of the population ate potatoes, rice, and pasta. I attribute the SINGULAR difference to the difference in the amount of total calories and saturated fats that people can afford more freely.

I actually REMEMBER the concept of Sunday Chicken! Now it's meat 3 times a day!
Anybody know when "American" cheese became a deli staple? That's GOTTA be among the top killers! (Or is it American cheese FOOD...or even SPREAD (even if it's in squares) if it's ALL fat and doesn't qualify to be called FOOD!:D:D)

ARIZONA,
I am very UNFOND of the common parlance of the rarity of heart disease in the "good old days."
With today's diagnostic procedures, I'm sure a HUGE proportion of those who died "of natural causes", "peacefully in his sleep", "of pneumonia", "hardening of the arteries", "his heart just gave out," "old age" (at 68), "of sugar" (diabetes) would have been found to have actually died of heart disease, possibly after sufffering for years. My fave of the euphemism's is of course NATURAL CAUSES. :bouncing:

I DO think today's heart disease rates are much elevated and I attribute it to ONE thing...increasing obesity because of more calories and more saturated fat consumption caused by the ability of EVERYONE (in rich countries, of course) to eat huge quantiuties of meat, butter, and cheese when in the past the same segments of the population ate potatoes, rice, and pasta. I attribute the SINGULAR difference to the difference in the amount of total calories and saturated fats that people can afford more freely.

I actually REMEMBER the concept of Sunday Chicken! Now it's meat 3 times a day!
Anybody know when "American" cheese became a deli staple? That's GOTTA be among the top killers! (Or is it American cheese FOOD...or even SPREAD (even if it's in squares) if it's ALL fat and doesn't qualify to be called FOOD!:D:D)




Lenin, That is an interesting obsevation. It is true that even when I was small I heard of death by "natural causes" which was never really explained.


Yes, I truly believe that cheese is a artery clogger BIG time. Its on everything anymore. Burgers, chili, pizza, all kinds of foods.

Yes, I truly believe that cheese is a artery clogger BIG time. Its on everything anymore. Burgers, chili, pizza, all kinds of foods.

Ah, but it TASTES SO GOOD! I think I miss a good fatty cheese more than anything on this diet. More than cake or pie or candy or pasta or even my three cans a day of Mr. Pibb. I do eat about one ounce of Montery Jack or Mozarella now and then and oh, do I relish it!

Ah, but it TASTES SO GOOD! I think I miss a good fatty cheese more than anything on this diet. More than cake or pie or candy or pasta or even my three cans a day of Mr. Pibb. I do eat about one ounce of Montery Jack or Mozarella now and then and oh, do I relish it!

Oh yeah, got to have my cheese every so often...Yummmmmmm..... :D

I could care less about cake, pies etc., but don't take my cheese away forever..... :eek: :eek:

I'm dieting the last 2 weeks (2100 calories) and have lost 7 pounds...spectacular I KNOW!!! One of the big aids is that there's NO cheese in the house (except Cottage cheese and grated parmesan) for me to eat while I do my evening's hunting and gathering in the kitchen.

I love cheese and butter SOOO much but for the latter I have weaned onto Smart Beat which is a 20 calorie/Tbsp. (1/5 that of butter and other margerines) margerine made from liquid canola , water, air and xanthan:D...pretty tasty though...I've grown to like it and I have NEVER eaten ANY margerine.
Trans fats, saturated fats...both zero grams!

Ah, but it TASTES SO GOOD! I think I miss a good fatty cheese more than anything on this diet. More than cake or pie or candy or pasta or even my three cans a day of Mr. Pibb. I do eat about one ounce of Montery Jack or Mozarella now and then and oh, do I relish it!


Yes, some cheese does taste good. I personally have loved the cheddar and hot pepper cheeses. :)
I am just very careful with them. If I go somewhere like a party and there is a cheese tray I either ignore it or take just a few small cubes but not a whole lot more. I just think that they will clog arteries very very quickly if eaten consistently, and probably will not take to many years to do so.

I'm dieting the last 2 weeks (2100 calories) and have lost 7 pounds...spectacular I KNOW!!! One of the big aids is that there's NO cheese in the house (except Cottage cheese and grated parmesan) for me to eat while I do my evening's hunting and gathering in the kitchen.

I love cheese and butter SOOO much but for the latter I have weaned onto Smart Beat which is a 20 calorie/Tbsp. (1/5 that of butter and other margerines) margerine made from liquid canola , water, air and xanthan:D...pretty tasty though...I've grown to like it and I have NEVER eaten ANY margerine.
Trans fats, saturated fats...both zero grams!


Lenin,


I have used Smart Balance butter and find it very very good. It is non-hydrogenated. It taste so close to butter it is pathetic especially on that nice thick 1" sliced homemade whole wheat toast.
Made from Olive oil and supports healthy cholesterol levels in studdies from Brandon University.

Geez, them Amish don't worry none about this stuff. I swear they could eat pure lard and grease and not be harmed. :D :D

I personally don't think it's the cheese or butter that will get you. It's the transfats in processed baked goods and margarines. I used light margarine for years thinking it was better for myself and my family. I think I was slowly poisoning us all.