heart44
05-24-2005, 07:54 PM
Hit all the news sources today that Crestor has a 2 to 8 times greater risk for side effects than other statins drugs [not that the other statins are safe, just that Crestor is "less safe"].
Of course..... all the Crestor proponents are on the band wagon already making statements like:
QUOTE from Canadian News Wire:
The Circulation report attempts to draw conclusions that simply cannot be drawn from adverse event reporting data. The FDA's own disclaimer on the front page of the AERS states, "the information contained in these (adverse event) reports has not been scientifically or otherwise verified as to a cause and effect relationship and cannot be used to estimate the incidence of adverse drug reactions."
I guess the fact that people are taking time to let the FDA know they are experiencing side effects from statins doesn't really matter. :confused:
Of course..... all the Crestor proponents are on the band wagon already making statements like:
QUOTE from Canadian News Wire:
The Circulation report attempts to draw conclusions that simply cannot be drawn from adverse event reporting data. The FDA's own disclaimer on the front page of the AERS states, "the information contained in these (adverse event) reports has not been scientifically or otherwise verified as to a cause and effect relationship and cannot be used to estimate the incidence of adverse drug reactions."
I guess the fact that people are taking time to let the FDA know they are experiencing side effects from statins doesn't really matter. :confused:
Sponsor
Lenin
05-25-2005, 09:14 AM
I'm sure there's lots of stuff like, "I'm taking Lipitor for 5 years and now my back hurts."
Anecdotal information yields poor conclusions because cause and effect is illusive. Add to that the suggestibility of humans and the larcenous behavior of some researchers and one can easily come to the conclusion that the only conclusions one can "take to the bank" are those obtained through large double blinded studies...and they are few and far between.
Anecdotal information yields poor conclusions because cause and effect is illusive. Add to that the suggestibility of humans and the larcenous behavior of some researchers and one can easily come to the conclusion that the only conclusions one can "take to the bank" are those obtained through large double blinded studies...and they are few and far between.
cathyinto
05-25-2005, 12:43 PM
I'm sure there's lots of stuff like, "I'm taking Lipitor for 5 years and now my back hurts."
Anecdotal information yields poor conclusions because cause and effect is illusive. Add to that the suggestibility of humans and the larcenous behavior of some researchers and one can easily come to the conclusion that the only conclusions one can "take to the bank" are those obtained through large double blinded studies...and they are few and far between.
How many reports are I was taking Lipitor for 5 years, my legs ache, stopped taking it and got better. How many people have come on this board with something like that?
Anecdotal information yields poor conclusions because cause and effect is illusive. Add to that the suggestibility of humans and the larcenous behavior of some researchers and one can easily come to the conclusion that the only conclusions one can "take to the bank" are those obtained through large double blinded studies...and they are few and far between.
How many reports are I was taking Lipitor for 5 years, my legs ache, stopped taking it and got better. How many people have come on this board with something like that?
heart44
05-25-2005, 01:33 PM
How many reports are I was taking Lipitor for 5 years, my legs ache, stopped taking it and got better. How many people have come on this board with something like that?Good question. Here's another scenario. Patient takes Lopid.... doesn't lower cholesterol fast enough, so Lipitor is prescribed. Lipitor lowers cholesterol but patient has aches and pains and memory loss. Dr says, "lets try Pravachol." More aches and pains, but more severe this time. "Lets give it one more shot, try Crestor." Aches and pains, elevated CK, memory loss..... The patient had been challenged with so many different cholesterol lowering drugs that side effects are now permanent. Do you think these side effects were reported anywhere? The side effects and permanent disabilities are "real" but they don't count. This is what's happening everyday all over the world.
Lenin
05-25-2005, 05:06 PM
If it's balaced with "I've never taken a statin and I have developed lots of aches and pains" or "I've taken statins for years and never developed pain" then the anecdotes are worth taking seriously. But often what you get on a web site or in complaints to the FDA are more like:
"I feel pain and I feel I shouldn't therefore it must be something external."
I knew a lot of people before statins were invented and MANY of them had aches and pains...two were even crippled and in wheelchairs with arthritis. Had they taken statins, guess what they'd have blamed.
There are even several people here who say, I've been on a statin for for 5 or 7 years and have SUDDENLY developed back pain. Cause and effect? In the realm of possibility but "not bloody likely." <in my best Austen Powers>:D
In science you learn NOTHING without large impartial studies. Anecdotal evidence is no evidence at all.
If the FDA pulled every drug when 100 people said they had sore muscles, there's be nothing in the pharmacopeia.
Remember the FDA pulled the COX-2 Inhibitors when a tiny proportion of the takers developed severe problems, they prevented thalidomide from reaching market, they pulled the liquid protein diet, they pulled Carter's Little Liver pills, L-tryptophan and Preparation-H; they'll do the same with statins when and IF the complaints become credible.
I think you'll see Plavix and Niaspan pulled first though!
All that said, unless one needs the strongest of the statins perhaps to get the maximal chance of battling heart disease or an extremely high risk of same, I think the weaker ones are a safer choice than Crestor. I don't doubt that some minority of people absolutely cannot and should not take these potent medications, as is the case with many classes of drugs and obviously the strongest ones like Crestor will show the strongest side effects in the shortest time.
"I feel pain and I feel I shouldn't therefore it must be something external."
I knew a lot of people before statins were invented and MANY of them had aches and pains...two were even crippled and in wheelchairs with arthritis. Had they taken statins, guess what they'd have blamed.
There are even several people here who say, I've been on a statin for for 5 or 7 years and have SUDDENLY developed back pain. Cause and effect? In the realm of possibility but "not bloody likely." <in my best Austen Powers>:D
In science you learn NOTHING without large impartial studies. Anecdotal evidence is no evidence at all.
If the FDA pulled every drug when 100 people said they had sore muscles, there's be nothing in the pharmacopeia.
Remember the FDA pulled the COX-2 Inhibitors when a tiny proportion of the takers developed severe problems, they prevented thalidomide from reaching market, they pulled the liquid protein diet, they pulled Carter's Little Liver pills, L-tryptophan and Preparation-H; they'll do the same with statins when and IF the complaints become credible.
I think you'll see Plavix and Niaspan pulled first though!
All that said, unless one needs the strongest of the statins perhaps to get the maximal chance of battling heart disease or an extremely high risk of same, I think the weaker ones are a safer choice than Crestor. I don't doubt that some minority of people absolutely cannot and should not take these potent medications, as is the case with many classes of drugs and obviously the strongest ones like Crestor will show the strongest side effects in the shortest time.
JJ
05-25-2005, 05:58 PM
Lenin, some of your points are valid, but when someone like myself gets severe GI problems after only on Lipitor 3 months, a dr. should listen. Yes, he switched me to Baycol, but then everything got even worse, GI problems and severe aches and pains. Like anything, people are very different, so if someone like myself tells a dr. about a rotten side effect, they shouldn't STILL try to shove a statin down your throat. JMHO
HubbleRules
05-25-2005, 07:05 PM
I suppose the people who died of rhabdomyolisis on Baycol were just having a hypochondriac attack, or trying to make a convincing point about how statin side effects are for real?
No wonder people don't want to tell their doctors about aches, pains, and other problems they experience while on statins. They're assumed to be quacks or hypochondriacs or chronic complainers... Everything but the statins is to blame...
Anectdotal evidence is all we've got to go on now - because no-one in the medical profession or the pharmaceuticals are following up with any independent studies of the true side effects of statins. There's no profit in this kind of study.
Lenin- if you had experienced some of the sudden problems people ran into when on statins, I venture you'd be singing a completely different tune.
I know I was not imagining things when I had sudden, severe muscle pains and weakness a few months after Tricor was added to my Lipitor. That was unlike anything I had experienced before or since, and it is now mostly gone since I stopped the meds. Can I prove it was the Lipitor/Tricor - of course not, but I certainly can't attribute it to age or injury or any other logical explanation either. Statins and Fibrates in combo were the cause (IMHO)....
Sure, lots of people experience muscle aches when they get older, but lots of people are also experiencing statin-induced problems - it's just that no one wants to listen to them. The fact that the medical profession continues to ignore these statin side effects doesn't make the situation any less real for those of us who have run into problems.
60 years ago the medical profession recommended that people smoke to help settle their nerves. 25 years ago they recommended that we switch from butter to trans-fat-laden margarine.
So much for medical expertise...
Oh well, I guess this is why God invented alcohol :)
HubbleRules
:cool:
No wonder people don't want to tell their doctors about aches, pains, and other problems they experience while on statins. They're assumed to be quacks or hypochondriacs or chronic complainers... Everything but the statins is to blame...
Anectdotal evidence is all we've got to go on now - because no-one in the medical profession or the pharmaceuticals are following up with any independent studies of the true side effects of statins. There's no profit in this kind of study.
Lenin- if you had experienced some of the sudden problems people ran into when on statins, I venture you'd be singing a completely different tune.
I know I was not imagining things when I had sudden, severe muscle pains and weakness a few months after Tricor was added to my Lipitor. That was unlike anything I had experienced before or since, and it is now mostly gone since I stopped the meds. Can I prove it was the Lipitor/Tricor - of course not, but I certainly can't attribute it to age or injury or any other logical explanation either. Statins and Fibrates in combo were the cause (IMHO)....
Sure, lots of people experience muscle aches when they get older, but lots of people are also experiencing statin-induced problems - it's just that no one wants to listen to them. The fact that the medical profession continues to ignore these statin side effects doesn't make the situation any less real for those of us who have run into problems.
60 years ago the medical profession recommended that people smoke to help settle their nerves. 25 years ago they recommended that we switch from butter to trans-fat-laden margarine.
So much for medical expertise...
Oh well, I guess this is why God invented alcohol :)
HubbleRules
:cool:
JJ
05-25-2005, 07:43 PM
Another thing I can add. Many people do not have computers, or do not research their meds., so are in the dark about all the folks out here with problems. I know 2 people who couldn't understand why all of a sudden they were feeling like they were 90 yrs. old, but after finding out they were on statins I told them to research some sites which they did. After finally seeing alot of their symptoms being discussed by others, they put 2 and 2 together and came up with 4. One guy finally asked his dr. and at least the dr. was honest and told him YES, it just might be the statin so took him off. It has been 5 months, and 75% of his aches and pains are gone. I also know way too many folks that their drs. never told them to take CO Q10 when on a statin, hubby and I were never told. People find out by word of mouth, or the net, then when they ask their dr. they just say, "Oh yeah, good idea". Here we pay them big bucks, yet we have to do the research, something is wrong with this picture... :eek:
Like hubby's cardio guy told him, yes, these drugs do very well, but if a person can't have QUALITY in their life on them, then they shouldn't be on them. One dr. told me if I didn't take them, or any other meds. he prescribed he wouldn't treat me, so I said, fine, SEE YA!! Like my old dr. always told us, U know your body, I just treat what U report to me, so if something isn't right, U will know better then me. God bless him for being my dr. for 35 yrs, and I wish him a WONDERFUL retirement, he earned it.
For those that can take the drugs with no problem, God bless them, but for other folks, it just isn't worth it. OK, off my soapbox..... :D
Like hubby's cardio guy told him, yes, these drugs do very well, but if a person can't have QUALITY in their life on them, then they shouldn't be on them. One dr. told me if I didn't take them, or any other meds. he prescribed he wouldn't treat me, so I said, fine, SEE YA!! Like my old dr. always told us, U know your body, I just treat what U report to me, so if something isn't right, U will know better then me. God bless him for being my dr. for 35 yrs, and I wish him a WONDERFUL retirement, he earned it.
For those that can take the drugs with no problem, God bless them, but for other folks, it just isn't worth it. OK, off my soapbox..... :D
Lenin
05-25-2005, 08:22 PM
Oh I agree...those who cannot tolerate a drug should not take it.
I have taken enalapril, an ACE inhibitor and coughed for 6 months. I've taken a beta blocker (nadolol) that had me so weak I could hardly walk and another (atenolol) that kept me awake day and night day after day, week after week. Plavix gave me a bloody nose every day for 2 months and Norvasc (calcium channel blocker) made me feel like I was on speed and I've seen somebody have a near nervous breakdown on a single dose of ativan, another had a petit mal seizure on a single meprobamate.
But I credited ALL the above symptoms to personal intolerance to certain drugs. MANY take all of the aforementioned and only benefit from them. I conside what happened to me and my friends idiosyncratic and any report of them as anecdotal. None is good evidence that the drugs should be pulled.
These reports that the FDA is saying "has not been scientifically or otherwise verified as to a cause and effect relationship and cannot be used to estimate the incidence of adverse drug reactionshas not been scientifically or otherwise verified as to a cause and effect relationship and cannot be used to estimate the incidence of adverse drug reactions"
I agree 100% with the FDA.
I have taken enalapril, an ACE inhibitor and coughed for 6 months. I've taken a beta blocker (nadolol) that had me so weak I could hardly walk and another (atenolol) that kept me awake day and night day after day, week after week. Plavix gave me a bloody nose every day for 2 months and Norvasc (calcium channel blocker) made me feel like I was on speed and I've seen somebody have a near nervous breakdown on a single dose of ativan, another had a petit mal seizure on a single meprobamate.
But I credited ALL the above symptoms to personal intolerance to certain drugs. MANY take all of the aforementioned and only benefit from them. I conside what happened to me and my friends idiosyncratic and any report of them as anecdotal. None is good evidence that the drugs should be pulled.
These reports that the FDA is saying "has not been scientifically or otherwise verified as to a cause and effect relationship and cannot be used to estimate the incidence of adverse drug reactionshas not been scientifically or otherwise verified as to a cause and effect relationship and cannot be used to estimate the incidence of adverse drug reactions"
I agree 100% with the FDA.
janeslk
05-25-2005, 08:31 PM
You are right about a lot of people being in the dark about the possibility of statins harming them. If I had known there was a possiblity that Lipitor was causing my husband's pain I would have researched it years ago. He has been off Lipitor for three weeks and 75 percent of his pain has disappeared after eight years of increasing pain. Two of his friends happened to mention their knees and legs are painful. My husband asked if they are on Lipitor and both said they are. He told them his story. They don't have to stop taking it, but, at least, they have been told a statin could be the problem and can discuss it with their doctors. Good article at http://www.***********.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=16431&pf=3
janeslk
05-25-2005, 08:34 PM
Sorry, I guess I can't post that article by a rheumatologist about all the painful conditions he is seeing from statin use.
ARIZONA73
05-25-2005, 08:47 PM
I wonder how many doctors even bother to inform their patients of what to look out for while taking these drugs. I'll bet they don't tell them anything, including the importance of taking CoQ10. And when patients complain about muscle pain and weakness, they're often told that it isn't from the statin, especially if their creatine kinase (CK) level is not elevated. But that test won't always do the trick. Statin-related muscle damage can occur in patients with normal CK levels.
I also believe that the incidence of side-effects from statins are greatly underestimated. I don't know what percentage of people run into problems from these drugs, but I find it hard to believe that it is only 2 or 3%. The true figure is probably closer to 20%. But how many people who develop problems and discontinue taking these drugs actually become a statistic? I'd say that most of them just slip through the cracks and go unreported. I don't think many people are going to notify the FDA, nor do I think their doctors even bother to report it. Doctors are too busy to be bothered with all that.
I also believe that the incidence of side-effects from statins are greatly underestimated. I don't know what percentage of people run into problems from these drugs, but I find it hard to believe that it is only 2 or 3%. The true figure is probably closer to 20%. But how many people who develop problems and discontinue taking these drugs actually become a statistic? I'd say that most of them just slip through the cracks and go unreported. I don't think many people are going to notify the FDA, nor do I think their doctors even bother to report it. Doctors are too busy to be bothered with all that.
JJ
05-25-2005, 09:07 PM
janeslk...I also wish I knew years ago what I know now about Statins, as I would have stopped my hubby from taking them. We were totally in the dark about the possible side effects, and he wound up having to retire 5 yrs. ealier then he wished to due to nueropathy. He still suffers to this day, and it is only getting worse. Yes, he is type 2 diabetic, but he never had that either till long after he experienced all the pain etc. from Lipitor. He was on Lipitor for over 7 yrs. and just kept chalking the pains up to getting older and possible arthritis, yet to this day, he has NO arthritis.
Like U, we have friends who tell us about certain aches and pains after taking statins, and like U, we just tell of our experience, and at least they question the dr. It is up to any person to make their own judgement, but at least they should be aware of what might, or might not happen, but drs. never seem to tell U what to be careful of like they do with other meds. I have friends who take them with no problems, or very few problems, but know WAY too many that suffer needlessly, and when they ask the dr. what is wrong, told it must be arthritis setting in.
Oh well, off to watch Lost, God forbid I miss the finale..... :wave:
Like U, we have friends who tell us about certain aches and pains after taking statins, and like U, we just tell of our experience, and at least they question the dr. It is up to any person to make their own judgement, but at least they should be aware of what might, or might not happen, but drs. never seem to tell U what to be careful of like they do with other meds. I have friends who take them with no problems, or very few problems, but know WAY too many that suffer needlessly, and when they ask the dr. what is wrong, told it must be arthritis setting in.
Oh well, off to watch Lost, God forbid I miss the finale..... :wave:
janeslk
05-26-2005, 12:04 AM
jj...that was the point I was trying to make with the article by the rheumatologist. He says he is seeing more and more patients referred to him for evaluation of painful muscles. He stressed the risk of muscle damage is mulitiplied 5 to 25-fold by using the combination of a statin and another cholesterol-lowering drug than just using the statin alone.
He notes, "There are many other medications (aside from statins) and diseases that can cause muscle aching. Of all causes, however, statin drugs are what I see as the most common culprits. If you or someone you know has muscle pains, check the medications being taken first!"
I resent the fact that my husband's doctor did not even mention that Lipitor could be causing the pain and even upped his dosage. All we ever heard were the glowing reports on statins. I printed out several comments from various boards from Lipitor users about their problems and had my husband give them to her so she could not plead ignorance in the future.
I may have to catch Lost when it comes out on DVD.
He notes, "There are many other medications (aside from statins) and diseases that can cause muscle aching. Of all causes, however, statin drugs are what I see as the most common culprits. If you or someone you know has muscle pains, check the medications being taken first!"
I resent the fact that my husband's doctor did not even mention that Lipitor could be causing the pain and even upped his dosage. All we ever heard were the glowing reports on statins. I printed out several comments from various boards from Lipitor users about their problems and had my husband give them to her so she could not plead ignorance in the future.
I may have to catch Lost when it comes out on DVD.
JJ
05-26-2005, 12:53 AM
janeslk....Hubby was put on Lipitor after he had his arteries cleaned in 94. At that time we had our old dr. of 35 yrs. When hubby started getting the pains and aches, our dr. retired and we got a new one. Not only did he think we were nuts thinking it was the Lipitor, he kept upping the doseage till he finally shoved him on 80mgs. Oh boy, did he ever get sick..... :eek: :eek:
I got very scared after the 3rd day, as all he did was throw his guts up, so I called his cardio man. He told me to get him off it immediately! We then went to see him the next day and he was shocked the dr. had put him on so much, and told him to stop it and come see him in a week. When we went back, he said that his aches and pains could very well be from the statins. Needless to say we ditched the new dr. Now he is under the care of a nice VA dr. and his cardio guy, and both have told us he just can't take them, so just do the best he can with diet and exercise. Now that he is type 2 diabetic, his Trigs. go quite high, but we are trying to control it with the diet and exercise. Last time they came down over a 100 pts., and we are hoping they go down further since we added more fruits and veggies and cut our red meat intake to 2-3 times a week, and knocked off alot of carbs.
We didn't have a computer back in 94, and knew noone on statins so we were winging it. After I got put on them in 2000 and got sick, I started web searching and found sooooo much info. I also had a new dr. but he didn't want to hear it, and told me if I didn't take them, or any meds. he prescribed, he wouldn't treat me. Needless to say I ditched him in a heartbeat. Right now we are trying our darndest to control our numbers with diet, exercise and supplements. They aren't great, but hey, we are trying.
Lost was great and can't wait for next season. I think the finale is on again the 28th, maybe U can catch it then. I'm not a big tv person, but Desperate Housewives and Lost I won't miss..... :D
Best of luck to you and hubby, hopefully he is doing better. Time for this ole lady to get ready to hit the sack. Wish this 40 degree weather would warm up, it sure don't feel like Memorial Day weekend coming.
TTYL........ :wave:
I got very scared after the 3rd day, as all he did was throw his guts up, so I called his cardio man. He told me to get him off it immediately! We then went to see him the next day and he was shocked the dr. had put him on so much, and told him to stop it and come see him in a week. When we went back, he said that his aches and pains could very well be from the statins. Needless to say we ditched the new dr. Now he is under the care of a nice VA dr. and his cardio guy, and both have told us he just can't take them, so just do the best he can with diet and exercise. Now that he is type 2 diabetic, his Trigs. go quite high, but we are trying to control it with the diet and exercise. Last time they came down over a 100 pts., and we are hoping they go down further since we added more fruits and veggies and cut our red meat intake to 2-3 times a week, and knocked off alot of carbs.
We didn't have a computer back in 94, and knew noone on statins so we were winging it. After I got put on them in 2000 and got sick, I started web searching and found sooooo much info. I also had a new dr. but he didn't want to hear it, and told me if I didn't take them, or any meds. he prescribed, he wouldn't treat me. Needless to say I ditched him in a heartbeat. Right now we are trying our darndest to control our numbers with diet, exercise and supplements. They aren't great, but hey, we are trying.
Lost was great and can't wait for next season. I think the finale is on again the 28th, maybe U can catch it then. I'm not a big tv person, but Desperate Housewives and Lost I won't miss..... :D
Best of luck to you and hubby, hopefully he is doing better. Time for this ole lady to get ready to hit the sack. Wish this 40 degree weather would warm up, it sure don't feel like Memorial Day weekend coming.
TTYL........ :wave:
cathyinto
05-26-2005, 01:18 PM
Anectdotal evidence is all we've got to go on now - because no-one in the medical profession or the pharmaceuticals are following up with any independent studies of the true side effects of statins. There's no profit in this kind of study.
Oh well, I guess this is why God invented alcohol :)
HubbleRules
:cool:
I believe Dr. Golomb Study was independent. The side effect rate she uncovered was scary. I'm trying to find a good search phrase to help people find her results site, and unfortunately not succeeding :(
Did find this info that I hadn't previously seen
Researchers who studied 500,000 residents of Denmark -- about 9 percent of that country's population --
found that people who took statins were more likely to develop a form of nerve damage called polyneuropathy than those who
never took the drugs. Polyneuropathy, also known as peripheral neuropathy, is characterized by weakness, tingling and pain in
the hands and feet as well as difficulty walking. Taking statins for one year raised the risk of nerve damage by about 15 percent
-- about one case for every 2,200 patients. For those who took statins for two or more years, the additional risk rose to 26
percent. The Danish study, published earlier this year in the journal Neurology, is not the first to implicate statins in the
development of nerve problems, but as one of the largest statin studies to date it is regarded as significant.
Oh well, I guess this is why God invented alcohol :)
HubbleRules
:cool:
I believe Dr. Golomb Study was independent. The side effect rate she uncovered was scary. I'm trying to find a good search phrase to help people find her results site, and unfortunately not succeeding :(
Did find this info that I hadn't previously seen
Researchers who studied 500,000 residents of Denmark -- about 9 percent of that country's population --
found that people who took statins were more likely to develop a form of nerve damage called polyneuropathy than those who
never took the drugs. Polyneuropathy, also known as peripheral neuropathy, is characterized by weakness, tingling and pain in
the hands and feet as well as difficulty walking. Taking statins for one year raised the risk of nerve damage by about 15 percent
-- about one case for every 2,200 patients. For those who took statins for two or more years, the additional risk rose to 26
percent. The Danish study, published earlier this year in the journal Neurology, is not the first to implicate statins in the
development of nerve problems, but as one of the largest statin studies to date it is regarded as significant.
Lenin
05-26-2005, 04:02 PM
So how many people got neuropathy from the statins out of the half million people studied in Denmark?
From what I can see, they looked at 465,000 people treated in Funem County hospitals over a 5 year period.
They found 166 cases of possible idiopathic polyneuropathy. Of these, they confirmed 35 Definite cases, 54 probable, and 77 POSSIBLE (this is out of a half million people.) NINE of the 166 had taken a statin.
So that's NINE people who MAY have gotten polyneuropathy from a statin (remember almost half of the 177 were POSSIBLE) while 157 presumabaly got it from the Danish AIR?
And THIS passes for a publishable study?
No mention of how many of the 35 DEFINITES had taken statins...would that have made this silly study look sillier?
This stretches the realm of credulity.
Anyone who runs a study should first take at least ONE course in statistics; enough at least to learn the meaning of STATISTICALLY INSIGNIFICANT!
It approaches the WORST study I have ever seen.
In their discussion,
Quote:
Our results are in line with several studies that
indicate an association between statin use and polyneuropathy.
In a study of 745 patients taking lovastatin
with a median follow-up of 5.2 years, one case
of peripheral neuropathy was reported.
Honestly...in line with a study that showed ONE CASE in 745. Puh...LEEZE
From what I can see, they looked at 465,000 people treated in Funem County hospitals over a 5 year period.
They found 166 cases of possible idiopathic polyneuropathy. Of these, they confirmed 35 Definite cases, 54 probable, and 77 POSSIBLE (this is out of a half million people.) NINE of the 166 had taken a statin.
So that's NINE people who MAY have gotten polyneuropathy from a statin (remember almost half of the 177 were POSSIBLE) while 157 presumabaly got it from the Danish AIR?
And THIS passes for a publishable study?
No mention of how many of the 35 DEFINITES had taken statins...would that have made this silly study look sillier?
This stretches the realm of credulity.
Anyone who runs a study should first take at least ONE course in statistics; enough at least to learn the meaning of STATISTICALLY INSIGNIFICANT!
It approaches the WORST study I have ever seen.
In their discussion,
Quote:
Our results are in line with several studies that
indicate an association between statin use and polyneuropathy.
In a study of 745 patients taking lovastatin
with a median follow-up of 5.2 years, one case
of peripheral neuropathy was reported.
Honestly...in line with a study that showed ONE CASE in 745. Puh...LEEZE
gardeninggal
05-26-2005, 08:21 PM
Lenin: I understand your point. I have become a sceptic, it seems that one researcher debunks the next. But what would happen if the doctor's would report all the patients complaints? Would the drug companies listen? Or would the all mighty buck still prevail. I think the doctors have a lot to answer to, example: My friend is going on Kidney dialysis and when I asked her if she had taken a statin she said yes, and did your doctor take you off, I asked and she said "No, he said keep taking it". Now if that isn't bad enough I found that she had kidney trouble before he put her on it. Grrrrr. :eek: Her husband had to stop taking Lipitor because of what it did to his leg muscles, he fell down a lot. He refused to take any more of it but she continues. When I went back to my doctor because of pain in a chest muscle she said oh , statins don't act that way, it happens in the big muscles of the legs. No more statin, no more chest muscle ache! Sometimes I think Ignorance is Bliss.
cathyinto
05-27-2005, 12:44 PM
Lenin: I understand your point. I have become a sceptic, it seems that one researcher debunks the next. But what would happen if the doctor's would report all the patients complaints? Would the drug companies listen? Or would the all mighty buck still prevail. I think the doctors have a lot to answer to, example: My friend is going on Kidney dialysis and when I asked her if she had taken a statin she said yes, and did your doctor take you off, I asked and she said "No, he said keep taking it". Now if that isn't bad enough I found that she had kidney trouble before he put her on it. Grrrrr. :eek: Her husband had to stop taking Lipitor because of what it did to his leg muscles, he fell down a lot. He refused to take any more of it but she continues. When I went back to my doctor because of pain in a chest muscle she said oh , statins don't act that way, it happens in the big muscles of the legs. No more statin, no more chest muscle ache! Sometimes I think Ignorance is Bliss.
My (fired)Dr. told me he had one patient suffer severe rhabdomyolysis. I asked if he reported it, he said no he didn't because it was so rare and Statins are so good for you.
Found this tidbit on Chris Gupta site
To verify his growing suspicion that Lipitor might be the cause, Dr. Graveline wrote to Joe and Teresa Graedon, the husband and wife team that writes the syndicated column called The People's Pharmacy, which specializes in warning the public about drug side effects. The Graedons asked for permission to print his letter in their column, and once it appeared, hundreds of people wrote in to say they, too, had experienced severe memory loss while on Lipitor. "Patients are reluctant to report amnesia, or they attribute the symptoms to old age or early Alzheimer's," explained Dr. Graveline. "And doctors are reluctant to see that the drug they prescribed was the cause." Still, the official word on Lipitor is that memory loss is not a statin side effect. "Thousands of cases of memory dysfunction have been reported to the FDA's Medwatch program," he said, "but after two years, the agency still hasn't acted. And most practicing physicians are unaware of the problem." Lipitor is not the only statin linked to this side effect, observed Dr. Graveline.
A reporter pointed out to that FDA-required trials do not report memory loss in people taking statins. An explanation was offered by Joel M. Kauffman, PhD, research professor of chemistry and biochemistry at the University of the Sciences in Phila******a. "In drug trials, the pharmaceutical companies often divide similar adverse effects into six or seven different categories to keep the scarier side effects under 1%." To illustrate his point, Dr. Kauffman said that amnesia could be divided into confusion, memory loss, senility, and cognitive impairment. There is general acknowledgment, however, that muscle pain, weakness, fatigue, peripheral neuropathy, and rhabdomyolysis, a potentially fatal muscle disease, are statin side effects, though they are thought to be rare.
My (fired)Dr. told me he had one patient suffer severe rhabdomyolysis. I asked if he reported it, he said no he didn't because it was so rare and Statins are so good for you.
Found this tidbit on Chris Gupta site
To verify his growing suspicion that Lipitor might be the cause, Dr. Graveline wrote to Joe and Teresa Graedon, the husband and wife team that writes the syndicated column called The People's Pharmacy, which specializes in warning the public about drug side effects. The Graedons asked for permission to print his letter in their column, and once it appeared, hundreds of people wrote in to say they, too, had experienced severe memory loss while on Lipitor. "Patients are reluctant to report amnesia, or they attribute the symptoms to old age or early Alzheimer's," explained Dr. Graveline. "And doctors are reluctant to see that the drug they prescribed was the cause." Still, the official word on Lipitor is that memory loss is not a statin side effect. "Thousands of cases of memory dysfunction have been reported to the FDA's Medwatch program," he said, "but after two years, the agency still hasn't acted. And most practicing physicians are unaware of the problem." Lipitor is not the only statin linked to this side effect, observed Dr. Graveline.
A reporter pointed out to that FDA-required trials do not report memory loss in people taking statins. An explanation was offered by Joel M. Kauffman, PhD, research professor of chemistry and biochemistry at the University of the Sciences in Phila******a. "In drug trials, the pharmaceutical companies often divide similar adverse effects into six or seven different categories to keep the scarier side effects under 1%." To illustrate his point, Dr. Kauffman said that amnesia could be divided into confusion, memory loss, senility, and cognitive impairment. There is general acknowledgment, however, that muscle pain, weakness, fatigue, peripheral neuropathy, and rhabdomyolysis, a potentially fatal muscle disease, are statin side effects, though they are thought to be rare.
JJ
05-27-2005, 01:47 PM
Over the years of reading and hearing folks complain about these muscle pains etc., it still amazes me they call it "RARE" side effects. Good grief, how many people have to complain before they will say it IS a side effect, and not that rare? Still don't think half the dr. report it..... :(
I know when I complained about it, I was told it can't be the meds. Yeah, right! Yes there are folks with no problems, but I find them more RARE then the ones that do have it. Even these stupid ads on tv, tell U to report any muscle pain or weakness, as it MAY be a serious side effect. Somebody is shoveing this whole thing under a rug.....JMHO
I know when I complained about it, I was told it can't be the meds. Yeah, right! Yes there are folks with no problems, but I find them more RARE then the ones that do have it. Even these stupid ads on tv, tell U to report any muscle pain or weakness, as it MAY be a serious side effect. Somebody is shoveing this whole thing under a rug.....JMHO