a demonstrable joint effusion. and they said there is fluid within the suprapatellar bursa. I go see a specialist in a week, but need to know what this is. I can't barely stand on my legs cause the pain is so intense. even vicodin e.s. does not help. I am very scared and in alot of pain, they also found a tumor on the opposite leg in the distal femur. any knowledge would be so appreicated.
hugs
south249 :rolleyes:

Hey south,
Sorry to hear you having more problems. Sound like you have fluid on the knee, some will call it water on the knee. This happens with injury or infection. If the xrays don't show knee damage, just fluid - they will probably drain the fluid off the knee. They may test the fluid for infection called synovitis. The only problem with getting fluid on the knee, is that it sometimes returns later after the aspiration (removal).
Wishing you the best!

SO GLAD TO HEAR FROM YOU HONEY, HOW HAVE YOU BEEN? I KNOW SHAME ON ME FOR NOT GOING AND GETTING THE TEST DONE ON THE OTHER KNEE, BUT NOW I HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE BUT TO GO AND GET ALLTHE TEST DONE. THE PAIN IS HORIFIC AND I CAN'T GET IN TO SEE THE SPECIALIST UNTIL NEXT WEEK. ON THE REPORT IT SAYS DENGERATIVE FINDINGS, DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE JOINT IS BAD OR THE KNEE ITSELF? I WILL KEEP IN TOUCH AND LET YOU KNOW HOW IT GOES. HAVE YOU EVER HAD THIS BEFORE? DO THEY PUT A LONG NEEDLE IN YOUR KNEE TO DRAIN IT? OR I AM SO SCARED LOL. OH WELL IT HAS TO BE DONE I GUESS. TAKE CARE HON AND WRITE WHEN YOU HAVE TIME.
BIG HUGS
SPUTH249 :wave:

Degenerative findings mean that the "cushions" of the knee are not as cushiony - real technical terms - ha!

The knee is composed of the end of the thigh bone and the top of the shin bone. The bone is covered with cartilage much as enamel caps our teeth. The cartilage cap provides a very slick surface for movement. Damage to this slick surface is associated with degeneration of the knee joint. Osteoarthritis is the most common cause of a degenerative knee joint. Osteoarthritis is associated with degeneration of the cartilage cap, formation of bone spurs and cysts and hardening of the bone beneath the cartilage cap (subchondral sclerosis). Degeneration due to wear on the cartilage cap results in bone rubbing against bone and pain associated with walking. This is typically just called the wear and tear of a typical knee.

Traumatic injury to the knee joint may produce irregularities of the cartilage surface and may lead to a form of degenerative knee arthritis referred to as traumatic arthritis. Traumatic arthritis is common after fractures of the weight-bearing surface of the knee joint. Traumatic injury may also result in damage to the ligaments and menisci of the joint. Damage to ligaments and cartilage may lead to arthritis of the knee joint. Other causes of arthritis such as rheumatoid disease may lead to degenerative knee joint.

Pain with weight bearing activity is a common complaint with a degenerative knee. As the knee becomes more arthritic, the knee may ache at rest. The knee may swell and may give way due to the pain. The knee may also become stiff preventing one from fully straightening or bending the knee joint. Anti-inflammatories are usually given to help with the swelling, but sometimes an aspiration (yep the needle) is used to remove excess fluid.

I know you're scared, but just tell the doctor you are scared and nervous - maybe they can give you a sedative prior to an aspiration (if needed). Or just tell him you want to start with drugs first (anti-inflammatory like naprosyn).

Let us know how it is going with you and what the doctor says.

Thanks So Much Honey For Explaining That All To Me, I Noticed That It Also Says Some Bone Spurring Like You Just Explained. Was It Painful For You To Have The Fluid Removed. Does It Generally Come Back? Also How Can They Tell If You Have Arthritis Or Rheumotoid Arthritis, What Exactly Isthat?

Hugs
South249

I have not had fluid removed from the knee, but have had cortisone shots in several joints including the knee. So can't tell you for sure. Yes, the shot did hurt, but the relief it brought was definately worth it. The pain I had been having for months completely went away - definately worth the few seconds of pain of the shot.
Well, if the degeneration didn't come from an injury (even something from the last year), then it is probably good old arthritis. Rheumatoid Arthritis would be affecting more than the one joint, but wanted to include it in case you already had that diagnosis earlier. If you do not have that diagnosis, don't worry about it.
And I'm afraid that the fluid will return on occasion if the underlying problem is not fixed.
Are they checking further into your other knee (the distal femur tumor) as well?

yes this are going to check that also. You said the fluid may return if the underlying problem is not fixed. what would the underlying problem be hon? what exactly is an effusion, is that the fluid on the knee? sorry for all the questions sweetie.

hugs
gale

Gale,
No problem - at least you ask. Most people sit back, worry, but never ask and then find out that there was no need to worry in the first place.
Underlying problem could be infection (treated with antibiotics), injury (PT or possible surgery) or arthritis (possible knee replacement). Depending on how bad a time you are having will determine how you want to be treated. Still my hubby had both knees done orthoscopically repaired (day surgery) for injury and he still has bad times where his knees will hurt and swell on occasion. They usually get better with rest. Do you think you might have damaged both knees when you fell?
And yes, the effusion is the fluid in the joint.
So, you have an appt with an ortho. next week. I sure hope he/she will get down to the bottom of your problems. And remember, the majority of tumors (for your other knee) are benign and as long as they aren't causing problems will require nothing.
Here's wishing the best!!!
Melinda

your an angel, thank you for taking the time to help meunderstand this. you have taken alot of worry off my mind and i can never thankyou enought for that. i was in a car accident almost 4 years ago, where i hit my knee against the dash in a rear end collision. do you think this could have acted up from back then. i need to know because we are about to settle our lawsuit this summer, thank god finally. I have a herniated disc in my neck and back, abulding disk and artheritus in my spine, so i am a chronic pain patient, and with this knee thing, it just adds to it ya know. thank you so much, I will keep in touch I promise.

hugs
gale

Oh Gale - been there and done that (depositions in June for mine - knee and back).
Yep - look into chondromalacia of the patella (knee) caused by car accidents. Hitting the dash board in my accident (22 months ago) caused this as well - I couldn't walk right for several days with swelling and pain. Was taken by ambulance to the hospital - no fractures according to xrays. After several months with pain and it giving out on me made me seek medical help. He diagnosed me with this problem and said the majority of the cases are from hitting the dashboard in an accident. There is no cure and it will come and go. Unless you opt for a knee replacement, there is no surgery to fix this problem - a lifelong thing you have to put up with and possibly getting worse from arthritis.
As for the herniated disc (I have one too), it took several months of PT with no relief before they would agree to an mri. Now, I got facet joint injections (they put you to sleep) for this in Sept - they shoot all facet joints around the herniation. It has done me a world of good. But alas, I am scheduled for my second set on Thursday followed by intensive PT (3 times a wk for 4 wks) prior to my follow-up appt. with the ortho. He said that the first PT I received was not the right kind (more like a day spa), but that I would learn exercises to strenghten my lumbar muscles this time that would help hold my spine better and hopefully won't be stuck with more injections later.
So, I definately understand the chronic pain you are dealing with and can sympathize. Yes - make sure that you mention this to your lawyer - he should know the terms I have mentioned if your ortho. hasn't already told them. The problems I have had (and let me tell you I feel so sorry for this older gentleman who ran the red light) make me tell everyone do not settle during the first year (which the insurance company will try to get you to do). Wait to settle until the year is almost out and make sure that nothing shows up later (like the chondromalcia or disc problems). I didn't get the mri on my knee and back until 11 months after the accident. I had been talking with this man's insurance and giving them all the information. Their insurance man told me that it would be in my best interest to get a lawyer if I was just getting the mris. That if they showed anything and I needed treatment, that this was the only way for me to get reimbursed my medical expenses (is all I originally wanted). Now, that I have trouble just getting down into the floor to play with my kids (used to do it every night and now I can't at all). They both have had to go to showers cause I couldn't lean over the tub. My daughter just turned 6, so she was 4 when this happened (son was 6). To not be able to pick them up when they fall down and get hurt. I have to sit down and let them come to me for me to hold them. To have trouble getting clothes on and doing the housework (which I have just learned to live in a semi-clean house now).
Well - now I want some compensation too for the change in my quality of life.
Anyway - sorry for the ramble - just hate that I'm so fed up that I'm getting these shots again really upset me.
Anyways - I am here for you! And don't settle until you know for sure that your problems from this accident are resolved or that they just won't be resolved (life-long). And make sure the insurance company pays for it too (this coming from someone who wouldn't have talked like this 2 years ago.
BIG HUGZ back at ya!