I have never heard of this before. Will watch PrimeTime tonight.

( - removed - )

Blessings,
Linda

I usually watch Primetime and did so tonight. The interview was interesting, but think they have quite a ways to go yet. Seems they did quite abit of articles on different drugs. I totally got a laugh out of some of the male enhancement drugs and their ingredients and so called claims.... :D

I wonder what type of enzymes will be produced. Read this from its website:

...Protandim is a breakthrough botanical formulation that turns on the body's system to naturally produce its key antioxidant enzymes at the sub-cellular level, where oxidative stress is the worst....

Can it possibly include CoQ10? Just curious.

Blessings,
Linda

From what I saw, it was mostly from green tea and a couple of other eastern country old remedy things. Hey, they just might be on to something, but as usual, it will take time. Of course if it is any good and just a supplement, I'm sure the pharma companies will have a negative feedback on it, as it won't bring them any money. Oh well, just have to wait and see... :wave:

Green tea, tumeric, milk thistle and one other ingredient that I can't remember. Also has calcium. I ordered a month's supply, but since it is supposed to promote longevity I don't know how to gage the results unless I post again at age 103.

Jane

jane,
You forgot BACOPA MONNIERI and ASWAGHANDA...:D:D

Sounds delicious on duck...because both quack!

When you see the words "proprietary" and "millions of times more effective than other antioxidants"...Hold tight to your wallet.
Their web site even has a disclaimer on buying the company stock saying you should not rely on their claims...Puh- leeeze!

Yes, you must be careful about the claims of any product. I think the packaging on Lipitor says it does not prevent heart attacks, but yet doctors prescribe it for that very reason--at least my husband's doctor did. I am glad it didn't totally destroy his muscles while saving him from a heart attack. It has made me appreciate "quack" medicine.

Yes, you must be careful about the claims of any product. I think the packaging on Lipitor says it does not prevent heart attacks, but yet doctors prescribe it for that very reason--at least my husband's doctor did. I am glad it didn't totally destroy his muscles while saving him from a heart attack. It has made me appreciate "quack" medicine.

Jane,

You absolutely did the right thing getting your husband off statins. They're not for everyone - if you start suffering from their side effects you may as well look for an alternate treatment, or be prepared to accept chronic, debilitating, potentially fatal side effects in exchange for a small decrease in your statistical chance of having a heart attack ( most statin studies indicate a 1-2% absolute reduction in risk).

Let us know how you do on the Protandim.... (And if you only make it to 102, dinner's on me!!! :D )

HubbleRules

:cool:

jane,
You forgot BACOPA MONNIERI and ASWAGHANDA...:D:D

Lenin, YOU forgot Baycol and Vioxx...


Their web site even has a disclaimer on buying the company stock saying you should not rely on their claims...Puh- leeeze!

Sounds very, very similar to the LIPITOR web site. It has a disclaimer that Lipitor "has not been shown to prevent heart disease or heart attacks". PUH-LEEEEEEEEZE!!!! :D :D :D :D


HubbleRules
:cool:

BACOPA MONNIERI and ASWAGHANDA

I was completing janeslk's list of ingredients. And those two are in the product.

What does Lipitor have to do with "Protandim?" Anything at all?

Each page seems to be devoted to a single topic and most people manage to stick to it.
Do you have anything interesting to add to the Protandim discussion?

As to the Lipitor web site...they claim very clearly that the FDA has found that Lipitor DOES prevent heart attack and they repeat the claim and list the studies. The site isn't hard to find and those who choose to quote it might find some benefit from actually READING IT! Hint it's one word long and begins with "L."
Why make up quotes? Find out what's actually THERE!

Lenin..I just came from the Lipitor website, and if U look down at the bottom, it states..Liptor has NOT been found to prevent heart attacks or heart disease. I tried to copy and paste it, but couldn't.

I understand U defending Lipitor, U take it and have done well on it, but there are many of us who can't take statins, so are looking for an alternative, so we come here to seek some advice. Noone has ever said to anyone to STOP taking their meds. as long as they are doing well on them. I, as well as other's have said, if U can take the statins with no problems fine, but if not, try an alternative route.

As far as the vitamin thing, like anything, one has to research and see how some of them work, as some are not for everyone either. It is up to the individual to decide what to do. AS far as anyone not taking a conventional medicine for a certain ailment has also never been suggested either. I seek medical advice if I have a sinus infection or whatever, and if an antibiotic is advised, I take it, just as I am sure anyone else here does.

I truly think alot of what has been battered back and forth between meds. and vitamins has been taken totally out of context. I see nowhere where anyone has said DON'T take any meds, just take vitamins for everything, but that seems to be the way yourself and Stumper interpret it. Let's get back to trying to help each other, and if people do disagree, fine, just do it as adults, and agree to disagree..politely.

Hopefully U have a nice day and weekend.... :wave:

JJ,

This is what I found for prescribing information from the Lipitor site:

LIPITOR significantly reduced the rate of coronary events [either fatal coronary heart disease (46 events in the placebo group vs 40 events in the LIPITOR group) or nonfatal MI (108 events in the placebo group vs 60 events in the LIPITOR group)] with a relative risk reduction of 36% [(based on incidences of 1.9% for LIPITOR vs 3.0% for placebo), p=0.0005 (see Figure 1)]. The risk reduction was consistent regardless of age, smoking status, obesity or presence of renal dysfunction. The effect of LIPITOR was seen regardless of baseline LDL levels. Due to the small number of events, results for women were inconclusive.

LIPITOR also significantly decreased the relative risk for revascularization procedures by 42%. Although the reduction of fatal and nonfatal strokes did not reach a pre-defined significance level (p=0.01), a favorable trend was observed with a 26% relative risk reduction (incidences of 1.7% for LIPITOR and 2.3% for placebo).

If you look harder over the various posts you will find EXACLY what you say you haven't seen: A recommendation NOT to take statins and to take Vitamin E and C instead. I let it slide the first hundred or so times and then decided to call a spade a spade, to call Vitamin C and E megadosing quackery. I'm tired of repeating myself too but the vitamin pushers are always crusading.

As for THIS thread if anyone has anything GOOD to say about PROTANDIM, let him say it. Attacking statins, or me, seems rather nonsensical to me; god knows, the evil statin story gets told and retold enough without putting it in EVERY SINGLE thread.

JJ,

It's absolutely hopeless. Some people need to win a debate at all costs - we're just wasting our time.

Let's get on with discussions with others who want to share ideas and help one another....

If we were Beach Bums we wouldn't have to deal with any of this - we wouldn't even have a computer - just lots of tubs of ice water filled with Corona and sliced lime!!! Yuuummmmmmmm........ :wave:


HubbleRules
:cool:

Lenin,

Lighten-up my friend, you're going to throw a clot if you keep it up...

Try to enjoy life instead of analyzing everything down to the last iota - you'll be happier and live longer. Maybe your stress level is part of the reason you have CHD - chronic stress is the silent killer...

I'm having a glass of wine on my porch right now, enjoying this beautiful spring day - I suggest you do the same..

As always I find your posts interesting and provacative...

HubbleRules


:cool:

Oh well, I got my info. from Lipitor.com, and the disclaimer is right at the bottom right hand side, but I guess I am wrong, as usual.. :rolleyes:
**************************************** ***********

Hubble, I agree, time to move on and discuss things with folks who wish to really share ideas, too much one sided stuff going on, so I quit. I just try to give suggestions or ideas, if anyone wants them fine, if not, oh well, such is life I guess.... :)

The Beach Bum life is looking more and more favorable..... :cool:

Enjoy the weekend, it is finally a gorgeous day here, thought spring was never coming..... :wave:

Anything about Protandim...the TOPIC, remember...ANYTHING at all?

Lenin,

Lighten-up my friend, you're going to throw a clot if you keep it up...

Try to enjoy life instead of analyzing everything down to the last iota - you'll be happier and live longer. Maybe your stress level is part of the reason you have CHD - chronic stress is the silent killer...




Hubbles,

Then please tell my WHY Euell Gibbons {Grapenuts poster boy}died at the age of 65 from a heart attack?
Once he died Grapenuts acted like he never even existed.

I'm not Hubble, but maybe this will help answer your question:
**************************************** *************
He died of a heart attack - probably a result of cardiovascular disease. In E u e l l's day it was not unusual to smoke cigarettes or to add high amounts of saturated fat (bacon grease, butter, egg yolks) to his wild foods. These risk factors combined with his hard life and lack of exercise in his later years (arthritis pain limited his movement) undoubtedly contributed to his death.


Have a nice evening... :)

Stumper,

You really need to seek professional help quickly. I think once you admit to yourself that you are out of control, that is the first step in recovery.

HubbleRules
:cool:

I'm not Hubble, but maybe this will help answer your question:
**************************************** *************
He died of a heart attack - probably a result of cardiovascular disease. In E u e l l's day it was not unusual to smoke cigarettes or to add high amounts of saturated fat (bacon grease, butter, egg yolks) to his wild foods. These risk factors combined with his hard life and lack of exercise in his later years (arthritis pain limited his movement) undoubtedly contributed to his death.


Have a nice evening... :)


JJ,


In all due respect that looks to be an "evolved" excuse, or ruse. If I recall correctly Euell was held up as an "idol" of sorts to those in the natural foods and vite and supplement industry.
He was the 'perfect picture of health'. Those that I knew at the time that took all kinds of vites and supplements held him up in high esteem, never brought up any bad habits he is now rumored to have had (I.E., smoking, eggs, saturated fats, lack of excersize, whatever). It was common knowledge about Euell.

Then *BAM*, dead at 65. The whole Nation was shocked. Grapenuts then acted like they never knew the man, and the vite and supplement industry quickly disbanded him.
Then the rumors began, one by one, more than likely promoted by the vite supplement industry.


IF Euell would have had statins at the time he undoubtably would still be alive with changed views. Even now Euell eminates some heavy duty shock waves from the past .

Hey, I didn't know the guy, I'm just posting what I got from his bio. think what U care to. Not everyone in the public eye is as "pure" as they are made out to be. Back then smoking, saturated fats etc. etc. were definitely in high useage. U asked the question, I just tried to give an answer. Next time I think I will know better, as U are definitely a STATIN lover, and I guess U feel if we all take them, we will live way beyond our years. Oh well, like they say, to each his/her own beliefs.

Have a happy weekend..... :wave:

Slumper,

How long was your mother mentally abusive towards you? You must have gone thru hell in your childhood and teen years.

You have some very heavy issues that you seriously need professional help with... You can't see it, but you are a classic compulsive obsessive type.

You need to get these issues out in the open and deal with them... Keeping them pent-up inside you is the worst thing you can do. I know a person who had serious emotional problems with a sibling, and refused to deal with it thru therapy. He is a very financially successful person, but everytime we talk, conversation ALWAYS turns towards his problems with his brother. He is not a happy person - in fact, I think he is fairly miserable.

Don't let your problems with your mother eat you up inside. Go talk to someone.


HubbleRules

Hey, I didn't know the guy, I'm just posting what I got from his bio. think what U care to. Not everyone in the public eye is as "pure" as they are made out to be. Back then smoking, saturated fats etc. etc. were definitely in high useage. U asked the question, I just tried to give an answer. Next time I think I will know better, as U are definitely a STATIN lover, and I guess U feel if we all take them, we will live way beyond our years. Oh well, like they say, to each his/her own beliefs.

Have a happy weekend..... :wave:


JJ,

That is fine.
The real truth is that in all cultures in the entire world, no matter what they consume, whether their diets are considered healthy or not, No-one ever lives past the age of 90. If one does it is a rarity.

All the vites or supplements or wild natural foods in the world will not extend someones life past 90 more than likely. Euell has proved that. :D

But with Statins, I can actually *live. By that I mean I do not have to pay that close of attention to diet anymore than I do now. Just eat sensibly and if I go to a Home and Garden show I can actually have a sausage sandwich and not worry , WITH fries:D , but if I was not taking a Statin then I might have to choose a fruit bowl instead. :D
I call that *living.

What does Eull (Gibbons?) got to do with it? Besides, he was just some guy promoting some high carb garbage breakfast cereal.

Slumper,

How long was your mother mentally abusive towards you? You must have gone thru hell in your childhood and teen years.

You have some very heavy issues that you seriously need professional help with... You can't see it, but you are a classic compulsive obsessive type.

You need to get these issues out in the open and deal with them... Keeping them pent-up inside you is the worst thing you can do. I know a person who had serious emotional problems with a sibling, and refused to deal with it thru therapy. He is a very financially successful person, but everytime we talk, conversation ALWAYS turns towards his problems with his brother. He is not a happy person - in fact, I think he is fairly miserable.

Don't let your problems with your mother eat you up inside. Go talk to someone.


HubbleRules



Hubbles,


Do you feel the shock waves from Euell? :D :D

Look, this man cannot speak from the grave BUT the Boogie-man is still alive. :D :D
And the vite-supplement industry does not like boogie men. Euell was the picture of health doing all that walking searching for wild edible plants and herbs and wild asparagus. Lack of excersize??
Technically , he should still be alive, AND if he was the Vite-supplement industry would have him on every bottle, to be sure. :D :D


But, alas, what can one say?

NOW, if he had statins back then, maybe, just maybe... :D :D :D

Stumper,

The moment someone who takes supplements dies, you react with negativity towards all supplements. Why? You know darn well that people who take statins die every day, even from heart attacks. So why haven't you tossed them in the garbage and walked away from them as well?

What does Eull (Gibbons?) got to do with it? Besides, he was just some guy promoting some high carb garbage breakfast cereal.


Arizona,

He was more than a guy just promoting cereal. He wrote several books and was held up as a picture of health. He did alot with natural foods, herbs, and so forth.
I can remember many a commercial with him and he was widely known in the vite supplement areas.

In regard to protandim, I watched the show and thought the reporter did a good job of outlining the research by the doctors. There is a way to measure oxidation of cells and free radicals, and the reporter participated in the test. I don't think Primetime Live has a vested interest in promoting quackery. In fact, many of these shows have commercials from the major drug companies. The show did debunk other natural products claims, but not this one. So many helpful medicines come from "natural" sources that I don't totally discount this type of thing.

I am sorry if I started a rant against statins. My husband's bad experience has made me very bitter. I do think the problems associated with them is understated. I live in a small town and in the past two weeks I have run across at least six people who are experiencing problems on statins. A couple of them had stopped taking them because they knew it was causing the problem, but the others are struggling on despite the pain because they are afraid to stop them or were unaware statins could cause the problem.

jane--who really doesn't want to live to be 102. One of the more frightening things about this protandim study was the possiblility of humans living to be 130.

I also watched the show and I hope they do an update with the host John in the future. I can't spell his last name, so I'm not going to even try.. :D

I believe they did a 4 or 6 week update on him and it was positive for good results so far. We hear ya about the side effects, that is why many of us are trying alternative stuff, just can't handle the stuff. I know when I was first put on Lipitor,within 3 weeks my TC went from 266 to 162, and I changed NOTHING. I would love to pop a pill and beable to have numbers like that, but it just wasn't meant to be. Some folks do fine, others don't, just have to take it like it comes.

U didn't start a thing, there are people who are for statins and those that aren't, so discussions sometimes get heated, no big deal. Like anything, people can respond or ignore.

Gee, if ya live to 130 U will have to make a whole new set of friends... :D

Have a great day, very warm and humid here. I knew this was going to happen, we go right from winter to summer.... :cool:

I am sorry if I started a rant against statins. My husband's bad experience has made me very bitter. I do think the problems associated with them is understated. I live in a small town and in the past two weeks I have run across at least six people who are experiencing problems on statins. A couple of them had stopped taking them because they knew it was causing the problem, but the others are struggling on despite the pain because they are afraid to stop them or were unaware statins could cause the problem.

One of the more frightening things about this protandim study was the possiblility of humans living to be 130.

Janeslk,

You did not rant against statins - not in the slightest. You are just conveying your personal experience - as many of us have. People need to hear both sides of the story - they only get one side from their doctors.

If some people respond angrily to your posts, then it is they who have the problem, not you.

As far as living to 130 goes - ask me when (if) I reach 90 how I feel - I think it may not look too bad at that point.

HubbleRules

:cool:

The only problem with living to be 130 is that they'd probably raise the retirement age to 110. :eek:

friends, I hope we can be open minded as we read the posts. We all can be one sided because of our experiences, good or bad. We come here to learn what has worked for others and to find sources of info so we can make educated dicisions. I for one am so grateful for those of you who really care and share your health plans because when you are successful so may we be also. Life is a veiled mystery, we don't know our future and perhaps it is good because I would worry myself into any early grave. Remember Rodale Press and their health books and organic gardening books, well the father lived to a good old age but the son, living the perfected healthy life was killed in a car accident in France if memory serves me right. If he knew perhaps he would have enjoyed some ice cream or some other forbidden food. My great grandfather lived to 104 and was lazy and diet I don't think he knew the word, his daughter 96 and her children into their 90's but my dad had a stroke at 49 (was born with an aneurysm in the brain) he came back from that but mother was told to feed him margarine instead of butter and he died ten years later of plugged up arteries. My point is LIVE, LIVE and try not to let cholesterol and all spoil what years you have left. My prayer for all of you is that your last day be as good as my mothers, spent lunching with close friends, some time in the garden enjoying the flowers and early to bed and when death came she didn't even know she was to take that journey. She was over 85, healthy, bright minded and when I ask her what her cholesterol was her remark was " Don't know never had it checked" Take a deep breath and look around you life is what you make it. :)

When onne reaches the age of 50 this is indeed a significant milestone. It is very very significant. Chances are and in MOST cases you have just lived very WELL over half your life.
If I was to compare this to an automoblie milage it would certainly be over the 100,000 mile mark. What does one do when their car (I've had numbers of them :D ) get over 100,000 miles on it? It is time to look under the hood and see what it needs. A little "tweak" here or there, an adjustment perhaps, a little tuneup and the car is good for perhaps tens on thousands of miles more. The human body is the same way at the age of 50.

ANYONE who lives past the age of 90 is a rarity in ANY culture today. And THAT is a fact. My dad is now close to 84 and still works outside, mows lawn, works on cars, tractors etc..but he IS showing a very steady diminishing away. I knew one guy personally who lived to be 96 and he told me he ate everything. He did not worry about meat or eggs but he DID feel that much of the meat today is poisoned by steroids. He may have a point. He had gotten his from home raised hefers on the farm with no steroids.


Nonetheless, most people I know of and certainly many of those everyone here knows seldom even reach even 80 much less 90, and that is a fact. Just look in any obituary column and you will see what I mean.

Personally, when I say I want to *live, I mean just that. If I was only going to live to be 75 anyway then why should I eat oatmeal, and white rice for 25 years? When I could take a Statin and *live eating all the foods I enjoy having a well rounded diet? And MAYBE extend my life? :D :D

The only problem with living to be 130 is that they'd probably raise the retirement age to 110. :eek:


Ain't gonna happen :D :D


Unless you plan on breaking a record in Guiness. :D :D

You could eat rice cakes all your life and kick the bucket at 55, in severe pain.

Oh, and BTW,

MOST people I know nd perhaps ALL of those I know that even get near 80 are using walkers and cains, bedridden, oxygen bottles, and host of other things to keep them active or moving around.
MANY need home care at that point.

friends, I hope we can be open minded as we read the posts. We all can be one sided because of our experiences, good or bad. We come here to learn what has worked for others and to find sources of info so we can make educated dicisions. I for one am so grateful for those of you who really care and share your health plans because when you are successful so may we be also.

Gardeninggal,

I couldn't have put it any more succinctly myself. Touche!!! I agree 10,000%!!! There are many on the site who will try their best to help others. I hope you continue to post.


My point is LIVE, LIVE and try not to let cholesterol and all spoil what years you have left. My prayer for all of you is that your last day be as good as my mothers, spent lunching with close friends, some time in the garden enjoying the flowers and early to bed and when death came she didn't even know she was to take that journey.

Double touche!!! I agree again. I personally don't subscribe to the theory that high cholesterol (unless it's really high, like over 300) causes CHD. I've done a lot of independent research, and over 40% of all heart attack victims have 'normal to low' cholesterol levels. That sort of puts it in perspective.

Agree with your thought that worrying and obsessing about one's cholesterol numbers is not healthy - mentally or physically.

I got out and enjoyed the beautiful weather today!! I managed to jog another 30 minutes non-stop, something I couldn't come close to a year ago when I was still suffering from statin-induced muscular myopathy.

My goal is to be able to run 5 miles in 45 minutes 3-4 times per week by the end of the summer!!! Wish me good luck. I feel confident I can do this...

I've already dropped 15 pounds in the past 6 weeks or so, and have been eating better also.

I'm on Policosanol in addition to the Ester-E, Omega-3 Fish Oil, Vitamin-C, L-Lysine, Folic Acid and Niacin (IH) - I'm up to 500mg/day of Niacin, and don't even notice a remote flush any longer.

I'm interested in improving my HDL/LDL ratio by the time of my next check-up. I also want to get my triglycerides back to normal (under 200).

Have a good one!

HubbleRules

:cool:

The only problem with living to be 130 is that they'd probably raise the retirement age to 110. :eek:

Arizona my friend...

I'll still take the living to 130.... After all, you're always as young as you feel!!!

(Of course this rule does not apply to chronic old-farts who concentrate on the negatives in life - but who wants them around when we're 130 anyhow!!!).

Live, love and be merry - and you just may get there... :D :D

HubbleRules
:cool:

Arizona my friend...

I'll still take the living to 130.... After all, you're always as young as you feel!!!

(Of course this rule does not apply to chronic old-farts who concentrate on the negatives in life - but who wants them around when we're 130 anyhow!!!).

Live, love and be merry - and you just may get there... :D :D

HubbleRules
:cool:


Ain't gonna happen. :D :D
AND IF you did live to be anywhere even near 100 you will wish you were dead because your mind will be gone.

Just a quick note on longevity. My father is 93 and developed a stomach ulcers when he was in his 40's. At that time the surgeon removed 60 percent of his stomach and he developed a habit of small meals and an aversion to fatty foods. He insists upon having a fresh orange everyday and eats cheese and apples as a snack. Oh, yes, he has chewed tobacco since he was 12 and if my 84-year-old mother fails to buy it he hits the roof or jumps on his ATV and goes out riding in the fields. He is a little hard of hearing, but says he doesn't need a hearing aid. He had a eyesight problem and finally consented to have minor surgery to correct it, but only so he could renew his driver's license. He knows his reflexes are slow and chooses not to drive, but wanted the license. He still lives on the family farm and years ago would spray pesticides recommended for crops without a mask. Both he and my mother are mentally sharper than I am. I look at him and wonder which factor accounts for his longevity and mental sharpness. His parents both died in their late 70's--stroke and heart problems.

Jane,


If your father is doing well at 93 then that is all good and well and I wish him the best. :)

BUT, keep in mind that he is the exception and not the rule. Interesting to note tht I also worked with a man who is about your dads age right now who also had 50% of his stomach removed and had to eat small meals as well. Wonder if there is a connection?? :confused:

Americans do stuff their stomachs a great deal and THAT is O.K. if they work hard, but it is not O.K. if they do not. My opinion.

But most will never see 80 much less 90. That is just a fact.