My Dad has has had diabetes now for 9 years. He has done well for quite sometime. 2 years ago his doctor put him on 20 mg of Zocor. He never really noticed any major side effects but my Mom did about 8 months following. Forgetfulnes, some memory loss, lost train of thought. His doctor blew it off as an "age " thing and a "male thing" so we believed him. But it has really effected my Dad the last year or and we are all obviously worried. He is 61 and has really been in great health for many years and was watching his diet for quite sometime until going on metformin right before the zocor.(approx. spring 2003) I have done so much research for my parents, trying to find the answers. I admit I am so worn out. I know I am not a doctor but also feel we need to take charge of our health!! He went to a neurologist in April of 2005 and nothing was conclusive. He has also had a sleep study done. (restless syndrome) I have also read of possible sleep problems for people on statins. I have read so much information in regards to the side effects of statins, especially the possible memory effects. Things are moving too slowly for myself and my family. This has also effected his job in construction. He had planned on retiring next year. Can anyone share their thoughts and opinions on statin use?? I am hoping that this is what is bringing the memory problems on and that with either going off zocor and trying a different statin or going on a lower dose his life with improve. From what I have read I think 20mg is too high for him. He has always maintained mild to moderate cholesterol levels. Thanks for you responses!!

concerned daughter

Have U or your mom asked the dr. to let him stop for awhile to see if things get better? I really hate it when drs. blame things on "age", especially at only 61. His problem could very well be the statin, as memory loss is a side effect. Seeing he does construction work, memory loss is definitely something he doesn't need, could be dangerous.

My hubby was on Lipitor for 7 years, had many side effects, especially muscle weakness and pain. We didn't have a computer at the time so I had no idea what some of these drugs can do, but sure do now. Due to his ailments he had to retire in 99, 3 years short of when he intended to. He no longer takes any statins, and both of us refuse to, although there are folks who do well on them, many don't.

Sounds like U are a very nice and concerned daughter, and think it is time for a talk with his dr. Seeing he is maintaining decent numbers, a lower dose may be just fine for him. My neighbors dad was on Lipitor and as soon as his dr. saw a decent improvement, he kept lowering the dose till everyone was happy, so it can be done.

I wish U and the family alot of luck, and hope it all turns out well... :wave:

I think you might be overmanaging your father's heath. He obviously doesn't have Alzheimer's or he wouldn't be able to hold down a construction job at 61. I think the only job an Alzheimer sufferer can hold down is President of the U.S.:D.
He went to a neurologist a couple months ago and he found nothing and lots of 61 year olds don't sleep all that well.
Know well what the cardiac risks are to a diabetic man who has had diabetes at least 9 years and is overweight...suffice to say, there is probably no group more in need of tight cholesterol control.

I thank God daily for the invention of the statin drugs and I am definitely in your father's demographic...but no diabetes, only proven cardiac arterial disease.:(

In the highly unlikely case that he DOES develop Alzheimer's (God forbid) or Parkinson's, remember the diseases were quite prevalent in the elderly before anyone took the first dose of Mev@cor, Zocor or Lipitor in the 1990's.

dak,
Simvastatin (Zocor) is judged so safe that in the UK it is allowed to be sold in the 10 mg. dose without a prescription, almost unique among pharmaceuticals. Your father's 20 mg. dose is fairly small as well...most people take 40 mg.

I don't think she is trying to over manage her dad, just looking to get some answers. Just because he went to one dr. and nothing was conclusive, doesn't mean something else might not beable to be done.

Even if a million people take a certain drug with NO problem, doesn't mean the next person won't have a problem. I'm sure she is aware her dad needs meds. to control his diabetes and cholesterol, but the Zocor might not be for him. Discussing this with his dr. for either something else to try, or even stopping the stuff for awhile to see what happens isn't out of the question.

I know U love statins Lenin, but they aren't for everyone, and if her dad must take them, prehaps another kind would be in his best interest. At least having a good talk with the dr. might help all involved, as her mom did notice certain things 8 months into his taking them. Prehaps he might need some Co Q10, as we all know that statins do deplete the body of it.

To be honest, I think the gal is a very loving person to take an interest in her dad's health and want him to get even better. Yes at 61 there is going to be a few lil problems, but in todays world 61 isn't time to give up the ship. He should beable to not only have good health, but also a good QUALITY of life, and at present, it doesn't sound like his QUALITY is all that great!

In my internet research on Lipitor I also read many posts concerning Zocar, a statin my father-in-law took until a month ago. I noticed many people reporting that Zocar, more so than Lipitor, seemed to be connected to memory loss and confusion. I would ask my father-in-law, but his short-term memory is almost completely gone.

Jane

dak2005,

I'd say that there is a very REAL possibility that your father is experiencing cognitive problems from the Zocor. Dr. Beatrice Golomb, who is doing research on patients taking statins, has found that people experience significant adverse effects from these drugs. Among the most common: muscle pain and cognitive problems. In fact, Golomb said that statins may cause cognitive problems simply BECAUSE they lower cholesterol. "Cholesterol is the main organic molecule in the brain and constitutes over half the dry weight of the brain," Golomb says.

Dak,

Sounds to me like your dad could be suffering cognitive impairment induced by statins. Zocor is known to cross the blood-brain barrier. It is thought to impair the brain's glial cells from synthesizing cholesterol. Cholesterol is a vital substance in the body (despite what you've heard from mainstream medicine) and especially in the brain. I wouldn't doubt for a minute that interfering with cholesterol in the brain could cause memory loss...

Dr Beatrice Golomb is conducting a statin-study at UCSD - cognitive impairement is one of the known side-effects of statins which she is researching. Dr Duane Graveline also suspects that statins induces Transient Global Amnesia in some patients - he was hit with at least 2 episodes of TGA while on Lipitor.

Do some independent research on statin-induced cognitive impairement. I would recommend a test - have your father discontinue the statin and see if his memory improves.

Best of luck.

HubbleRules
:cool:

Thanks to all of the responses. Every little bit helps. I should probably clarify a few things. My Dad is not overweight, matter of fact there was a time when we thought he was too thin. He has done very well with his weight. I was home this weekend and sharing more information with my parents. I feel like I have to push them to continue.... they are so unsure of where else to go to visit a different doctor. Their health insurance seems to prevent them from going to very many places. I guess we have been so fortunate not to have health problems all of the years and we are overwelmed and nervous about what to do. I think my parents want to trust and believe in their doctor and I feel they need to present this new information I have found for them and go from there. I also think a different doctor should visit with him. Anyway.......I could go on forever. Anymore tidbits of information would be great. Thanks again.

dak2005,

Statins can be a nightmare for many people, my father included. Like your father, he is diabetic, and has been for nearly 40 years. He never had heart problems, but his doctor put him on 40mg Zocor. Well, that's when all the trouble started. He developed peripheral neuropathy in his left foot, which continuously awakened him in the middle of the night with sharp stabbing pains. Then his muscles began to hurt and he felt weak. It got to the point where he could hardly lift himself out of a chair. Finally he had had enough, and he quit taking Zocor. That was 3 or 4 years ago. He's doing better now. At least he is able to sleep at night. Believe me, it is not worth it to ignore these side-effects. It is only likely to get worse. It's not the end of the world if he stops taking this stuff. In fact, it may be all for the better. But to do nothing and continue to take this stuff will only make the problem worse.

Arizona,

I agree - people who experience the side-effects of statins and ignore them, or listen to their doctor saying 'it couldn't be the statin', are playing with their health. The symptoms can get worse, and damage can be irreparable if they continue on the drug.

Most are intimidated by their doctors, and stay on the drug until their situation is much worse and chances for a recovery are much lower, or the recovery time is much longer.

My advice is for anyone on statins who experiences sudden chronic, unexplained muscle pain, weakness, tingling sensations, memory loss... is to stop the statin for a month or 2 and see if the symptoms go away. If they do, you have some reason to suspect the statin. If not, it is up to you whether to continue the statin or not.

One more bit of advice - if you are on a statin, please take CoQ10 supplements to reduce the risk of muscle pain and weakness.


HubbleRules
:cool:

Dak,


These statins are the most wonderul thing in the world. When one considers that they can actually clean arteries they are a Godsend.

I take Vytorin, which is a mixture of Zocor and Zetia. I have had no problems nor cognitive disfunction at all. As a matter of fact my cognitive functions are clearer and better than ever! Just as Hubbles :D :D :D

The doc told me I probably only need it for a few years to clean out the arteries. Then perhaps I will go off.

But of course if your Dad is experiencing side affects THAT is another story. My Doc told me that 97% of people on Statins never have a problem.


Memory loss at 61 is not uncommon. Most people experiene memory loss even earlier although it is not disabling.
What I would look for first is THYROID problems. Underactive thyroid CAN induce memory problems. At it does tend to run with many people who have diabetes. Even if it is borderline it could be a problem. Thyroid affects alot of things including sleep.

What? Statins are the most wonderful thing in the world, and they clean out arteries????!!! Should I laugh now, or are there even more ludicrous claims?

When my husband had his arteries cleaned in 94 he was also told he had a slight blockage on his right side. After the cleaning, he was put on Lipitor and a couple of other statins for 7 yrs. Due to rotten side effects he stopped taking them a few years ago. In Jan. of this year, he had a Mibi stress test and it still shows that slight blockage, so I guess the STATINS didn't clean anything, or that blockage would have been gone..... :rolleyes:

BTW, it is the SAME blockage, in the same spot, so please don't try and say he built up blockage due to getting off statins. Where he had the arteries cleaned, is still fine, and he has been off statins for years.

What? Statins are the most wonderful thing in the world, and they clean out arteries????!!! Should I laugh now, or are there even more ludicrous claims?


Then will you please explain to my why there is so many natural supplements on the market CLAIMING to clean out blocked arteries? :D :D :D

Hello again..... thanks for the responses. I have looked into the thyroid possibility with my Dad. All winter I really thought that was it. So many kinds of diseases have similiar symptoms. My Grandmother, Dad's mom has an underactive thryorid. My Dad has had 2 tests and both came back normal. I questioned it too. He is super tired almost all of the time. I wanted another test but it hasn't been pursued. I really think that statins effect every person differently and I don't doubt that they are beneficial to many people. My Dad may not be one that can take them. Or he may need a different statin. My parents have been in excellent health for many years. Dad has never been on any kind of medication until metformin and zocor which he started at about the same time.( 2 years ago) He doesn't even get headaches and hardly has ever taken aspirins, which now an aspirin a day is a good thing. That's why all of the this has been so difficult. My parents don't have internet access so I am taking the oldest daughter role and trying to help. They are overwelmed with everything that I find. I am just looking for answers and support. I really appreciate it. My parents went back to the doctor earlier this week and my Mom brought all of my information that I have gathered and I think this time they will take a look at it and take my parents concerns seriously.

thanks again.. :)

dak..your 100% right, statins work well for many folks, but there are those of us who just can't handle them. If your dad was doing fine until the use of statins, it is safe to say it is a VERY good possibility that is the problem.

I think it is very nice of you to go thru all this research, and questions to try and help. We never had internet use when hubby was on statins, so didn't have a clue what was causing all his problems. When they put me on them in 2000, I did ok for 3 months, then things went downhill. Was then that I got a computer and found all the info., put 2 &2 together and came up with 4.

Hopefully your dads dr. can either find something else to help him, if he really needs meds, or can prescribe some alternative therapy. I truly wish U and your family the best, and hope the dr. takes all this info. U have gathered into consideration...... :wave:

Best of health to all of U... :)

Stumper,

I don't know how many supplements there are which make such claims. There are so many things out there that it's impossible to keep track of them all. But I just don't blindly believe everything I hear, either. If I'm interested in something, I'll read up on it and do a little research on my own. Then I form my own opinion.

I'll grant you that statins do lower cholesterol. I can't dispute that. I'll even go so far as to admit that they may help reduce inflammation, which may actually account for whatever benefit people do derive from them. So, the REAL benefit may not even be from a reduction in cholesterol. Statins are also reported to promote higher nitric oxide levels, which results in improved blood flow. However, there are plenty of safe, natural supplements which can also reduce inflammation and promote increased nitric oxide levels. Fish oil, aspirin, vitamin E, and vitamin C can reduce inflammation. And the amino acid L-arginine can promote higher nitric oxide levels.

The real downside that comes from using statins is an increased risk of cancer, and a myriad of other unpleasant side-effects, some of which can be quite serious. That's why I've always said that these drugs are over prescribed, and should only be used by those people who are considered high risk. But doctors instead seem to be passing this stuff out like it was candy to nearly everybody, including young, healthy people who have absolutely no health problems whatsoever. That to me is negligence. As far as I'm concerned, they have long ago pushed the envelope way too far.

Hello again..... thanks for the responses. I have looked into the thyroid possibility with my Dad. All winter I really thought that was it. So many kinds of diseases have similiar symptoms. My Grandmother, Dad's mom has an underactive thryorid. My Dad has had 2 tests and both came back normal. I questioned it too. He is super tired almost all of the time. I wanted another test but it hasn't been pursued. I really think that statins effect every person differently and I don't doubt that they are beneficial to many people. My Dad may not be one that can take them. Or he may need a different statin. My parents have been in excellent health for many years. Dad has never been on any kind of medication until metformin and zocor which he started at about the same time.( 2 years ago) He doesn't even get headaches and hardly has ever taken aspirins, which now an aspirin a day is a good thing. That's why all of the this has been so difficult. My parents don't have internet access so I am taking the oldest daughter role and trying to help. They are overwelmed with everything that I find. I am just looking for answers and support. I really appreciate it. My parents went back to the doctor earlier this week and my Mom brought all of my information that I have gathered and I think this time they will take a look at it and take my parents concerns seriously.

thanks again.. :)


Dak,


Please pursue another thyroid test. I will tell you why. Some underactive thyroid problems can "come and go". I know this because I am one of them. When I was about 38 or so I became extremely tired. SO tired in fact that when I came home from work I had to go lie down for at least 1 hour or I could not function. I would only "drag". Felt like I had a lead ball on my feet. Went to the doc and found out I was a #7 which is considered mild. I went on thyroid med and in 5 days I never had more energy! Time passed....about 2 years, THEN in the evenings sometimes I would get the "jitters". Went back to the doc and was a .87 which was ALMOST going in the other direction! Doc explained to me that new research is showing that some hypothyroidsim is only temporary probably due to nodules on the gland. I slowly weaned myself off as the doctor wanted me to and I was fine for several years and had to go back on again and then off and then on again!

So, what I am saying is to get it checked (your Dad) and keep in mind "borderline" readings. I was getting cold this winter suspected my thyroid and even though I was "within range" I was very close to underactive again. The top mark was 5.50 and I was 5.35 so I was very close again and doc said I could probably use a little if I was getting cold. It was my decision and I am now back on it and no MORE COLD! But, its 90 degress outside today as well. :)

What? Statins are the most wonderful thing in the world, and they clean out arteries????!!! Should I laugh now, or are there even more ludicrous claims?


Arizona,


Yes, they DO clean out arteries ! I cannot let this go unanswered. Johns Hokins University has the MRI studies showing that they do!
Supplements cannot compare to stats in that regard. :D :D

http://www.jhu.edu/~gazette/2004/06dec04/06mri.html

Stumper,

Ever since I've been on these boards, I have NEVER, EVER heard one person say that their doctor told them they only needed to take the statin for a few years to "clean out the arteries." I know that you probably wish it was true, but I hardly think so. My father had also been taking statins prior to being told he needed triple bypass surgery. So don't get your hopes up too high.

Incidentally, have you actually been diagnosed with heart disease, and told that you have blockages?

Ever since I've been on these boards, I have NEVER, EVER heard one person say that their doctor told them they only needed to take the statin for a few years to "clean out the arteries."


Arizona,

I'd wager you also never ever heard of one person who conducted their own personal clinical study at Walmarts, and concluded that statins are safe based on the number of wheel chairs they observed in the store!!!

I wonder what the control group and the placebo could be in a rigorous study like this????:D :D :D

Please, consider the source of the information.

HubbleRules
:cool:

Stumper, You mentioned your thyroid, this is an area that I have done a lot of research in because I had a tumor on my thyroid when I was 33 and after surgery I was told I would be on replacement the rest of my life. Have you looked into the latest info? The old TSH scale was up to 5.5 and anything over that was hypothyroid and needed treatment but the organization the endocrinologist's belong to (can't think of the full name) about 3 years ago set the new scale at .3 to 3 because they determined that too many people were hypo at the old scale and not getting the treatment they needed. Also there is a great difference between the natural thyroid (example Armour) and the synthetic Synthroid. Low thyroid means higher cholesterol levels.

gardeninggal....My Thyroid numbers have been all over the place for years, up and down like a yo-yo. One test it is fine, next it is a tad elevated. This new dr. told me to add a lil oxidized salt to my diet and each foods rich in iodine, like some fish etc. My levels have never been way high or low, just borderline at times, but this has gone on since I was in my 30's. I do know that a low thyroid can cause high cholesterol, that is why they keep an eye on my thyroid. I am not a salt liker, put did buy a small container of it last shopping trip. I looked it up on the web and it says the same thing.

AND if statins are so crippling then why when I went to Walmart yesterday did I only see one person in a wheelchair?



Sorry, I just did a search, and THINK I may have just found it on the internet...

Yes, that's it... It was the famous "WAnnabe Lead Man Advocating Really Terrific Statins" (WALMART's) study. I believe it was conducted in the late 90's by one of the big universities on the west coast.

I believe it was a double-blind study - no, wait , I am reading here that it was not double blind,.... merely conducted by a staff with very bad eyesight who could not count very well.... :D :D

Oh well, let me do some more searching and see what I come up with...


HubbleRules
:cool:

I think you might be overmanaging your father's heath. He obviously doesn't have Alzheimer's or he wouldn't be able to hold down a construction job at 61. I think the only job an Alzheimer sufferer can hold down is President of the U.S.:D.
He went to a neurologist a couple months ago and he found nothing and lots of 61 year olds don't sleep all that well.
Know well what the cardiac risks are to a diabetic man who has had diabetes at least 9 years and is overweight...suffice to say, there is probably no group more in need of tight cholesterol control.

I thank God daily for the invention of the statin drugs and I am definitely in your father's demographic...but no diabetes, only proven cardiac arterial disease.:(

In the highly unlikely case that he DOES develop Alzheimer's (God forbid) or Parkinson's, remember the diseases were quite prevalent in the elderly before anyone took the first dose of Mev@cor, Zocor or Lipitor in the 1990's.

dak,
Simvastatin (Zocor) is judged so safe that in the UK it is allowed to be sold in the 10 mg. dose without a prescription, almost unique among pharmaceuticals. Your father's 20 mg. dose is fairly small as well...most people take 40 mg.


I think that you fail to realize that there are many highly qualified health and science professionals that do not agree with the cholesterol/heart disease theory.

Dr. Uffe Ravnskov, M.D.(Nephrology-Kidney specialist) Ph.D.(Chemistry):

One of the most surprising facts about cholesterol is that there is no relationship between the blood cholesterol level and the degree of atherosclerosis in the vessels. If a high cholesterol really did promote atherosclerosis, then people with a high cholesterol should evidently be more atherosclerotic than people with a low. But it isn´t so.
The pathologist Dr. Kurt Landé and the biochemist Dr. Warren Sperry at the Department of Forensic Medicine of New York University were the first to study that question (25). The year was 1936. To their surprise, they found absolutely no correlation between the amount of cholesterol in the blood and the degree of atherosclerosis in the arteries of a large number of individuals who had died violently. In age group after age group their diagrams looked like the starry sky.

Drs. Landé and Sperry are never mentioned by the proponents of the diet-heart idea, or they misquote them and claim that they found a connection (26), or they ignore their results by arguing that cholesterol values in the dead are not identical with those in living people.

That problem was solved by Dr. J. C. Paterson from London, Canada and his team (27). For many years they followed about 800 war veterans. Over the years, Dr. Paterson and his coworkers regularly analyzed blood samples from these veterans. Because they restricted their study to veterans who had died between the ages of sixty and seventy, the scientists were informed about the cholesterol level over a large part of the time when atherosclerosis normally develops.

Dr. Paterson and his colleagues did not find any connection either between the degree of atherosclerosis and the blood cholesterol level; those who had had a low cholesterol were just as atherosclerotic when they died as those who had had a high cholesterol.

Similar studies have been performed in India (28), Poland (29), Guatemala (30), and in the USA (31), all with the same result: no correlation between the level of cholesterol in the blood stream and the amount of atherosclerosis in the vessels.

But a correlation has been found in a few studies. One of these was the famous study from Framingham, Massachusetts (32). The correlation found by the Framingham investigators was minimal, however. In statistical terms, the correlation coefficient there was only 0.36. Such a low coefficient indicates a desperately weak relationship between variables, in this case, of course, between cholesterol and atherosclerosis. Usually, scientists demand a much higher correlation coefficient before they conclude that there is a biologically important relationship between two variables.

The very low correlation coefficient was arrived at after much study. First, many of the townspeople of Framingham had their cholesterol tested several times over a period of several years. Then, Dr. Manning Feinleib of the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute, led a team of coworkers in studying the coronary vessels of those who had died. The researchers were eager to learn which of the many factors they had studied was most important in the development of atherosclerosis in these dead people from Framingham. Was it blood cholesterol or the number of cigarettes smoked, or something else?

After carefully describing the atherosclerosis in the coronary arteries of the dead people, Dr. Feinleib and his associates concluded that the cholesterol level of the blood best predicted the degree of atherosclerosis. Neither age nor weight nor blood pressure nor any other factor was as good as blood cholesterol. But again, the correlation coefficient between cholesterol and atherosclerosis was a mere 0.36.

The written report of the study offered no diagrams and no information about the cholesterol and atherosclerosis of each of the individuals whose bodies had been examined. And the report did not discuss the very low correlation coefficient; it didn't even comment upon that matter.

When scientists reach a result contrary to all previous studies, it is routine--not merely usual but routine--to provide a detailed report about the result and also to discuss any possible ways in which the study may have been biased away from accuracy and truth. In the Framingham case, there was an especially great need for this routine scientific procedure to be followed. Not only was the correlation coefficient so trivial, but this study, funded with millions of taxpayers' dollars by The National Institute of Health, could have a major impact on national health care and the American economy. If there was no connection between cholesterol and atherosclerosis, as the previous studies had shown, then there was no reason to bother about cholesterol or the diet. And billions of taxpayers' dollars could have been spent more wisely than in lowering the cholesterol of healthy people.

But the scientists conducting the Framingham study had no reservations. They were eager to stress their own excellence and to highlight the weaknesses of Dr. Paterson's study of Canadian war veterans. In their report, they did not mention the studies of Drs. Landé and Sperry at all, nor the studes from India, Poland, Guatemala or the USA. When the Framingham study authors mentioned their opponents, it was only to criticize without putting their own cards on the table. Some of those hidden cards are fascinating to wonder about.

How were the dead of Framingham chosen for postmortem examination, for example? From 914 dead individuals, the researchers examined only 281. And from the 281, they selected 127 (14 per cent of all dead) who became the subjects of an autopsy program especially designed to investigate the heart and its vessels.

Thus, those chosen for autopsy in the Framingham study were not a random sampling of the population, as they had been in the previous studies. The report from Framingham said nothing about the selection criteria, although scientific studies routinely do. Usually the determining factor is age. A postmortem is seldom performed on people who have died peacefully in old age, as most of us will. Primarily, a postmortem is restricted to young and middle-aged people, who have died before their time, and so it was in the Framingham study. Almost half of those autopsied were younger than 65 years. For this reason, the autopsied subjects had to have included a relatively large number with familial hypercholesterolemia, the unusual genetic disease of cholesterol metabolism. Furthermore, people with this disease are of special interest to scientists studying the cholesterol problem and were probably chosen for autopsy in a program tailored to investigate coronary disease.

With only 14% of the Framingham dead chosen for autopsy, the risk of bias must have been great because there is one exception from the above rule: patients with the rare disease familial hypercholesterolemia have much atherosclerosis, and very high cholesterol levels in their blood. If many such patients are included in a study of cholesterol and atherosclerosis, a correlation will be found.

The question about blood cholesterol and atherosclerosis has been studied by coronary angiography also. It seems as if every specialist in coronary angiography in America has performed his own study, funded with federal tax money awarded by the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute. In paper after paper published in various medical journals, using almost identical words, these medical specialists emphasize the importance of the blood cholesterol level for the development of atherosclerosis (33).

But if those who were treated with cholesterol-lowering drugs were excluded, and almost certainly this group must have included all patients with familial hypercholesterolemia, the correlation between blood cholesterol and degree of atherosclerosis disappeared.

In Japan the food is meager, blood cholesterol is low and the risk of getting a heart attack is much smaller than in any other country. Given these facts you will most probably say that in Japan atherosclerosis must be rare.

The condition of the arteries of American and Japanese people was studied in the fifties by Professors Ira Gore and A. E. Hirst at Harvard Medical School (35) and Professor Yahei Koseki from Sapporo, Japan. At that time US people on average had a blood cholesterol of 220 whereas Japanese had about 170.

The aorta, the main artery of the body, from 659 American and 260 Japanese people were studied after death. Meticulously all signs of atherosclerosis were recorded and graded. As expected, atherosclerosis increased from age 40 and upwards, both in Americans and in Japanese. Now to the surprising fact.

When degree of atherosclerosis was compared in each age group there was hardly any difference between American and Japanese people. Between age forty and sixty Americans were a little more arteriosclerotic than Japanese; between sixty and eighty there was practically no difference, and above eighty Japanese were a little more arteriosclerotic than Americans.

A similar study was conducted by Dr J.A. Resch from Minneapolis and Dr.s N. Okabe and K. Kimoto from Kyushu, Japan (36). They studied the arteries of the brain in 1408 Japanese and in more than 5000 American people and found that in all age groups Japanese people were more arteriosclerotic than were Americans.

The conclusion from these studies is of course that the level of cholesterol in the blood has little importance for the development of atherosclerosis, if any at all.

NDXUFan,

Just for grins, would you tell us the author of this compilation that lists those two studies as footnotes (35) and (36.)

Please tell me it's not more rehashing of Ravnovsky tired old book?

If you quote a 50 year old study why not show the study instead of a few words lifted from it by a quack regurgitating a sentence out of context.

Both lipitor and zocor can cause memory loss. My mom started out on lipitor back in 2000 and she immediately had memory loss. It was so bad she would pay for groceries and walk off and leave her packages and her change. It got so bad, my father and I would have to take turns going out with her. We thought it was zlzheimer's (sp?) so we mentioned it to the dr. He gave her a referral to a nuerologist. They did all kinds of tests, even hooked her up to a machine and put thes "cups" on her head and scanned her brian.

It took months, but one day my mom went to the ER for something else (i think chest pain) and the ER dr. took her off lipitor. Her liver was soooo messed up and enzymes elevated, she had a fatty liver. They thought my mom was alcoholic, but she never drank alcohol.

More recently, my mom was on zocor (I posted at that time) and she had difficulty in her college courses. She could not remember anything, so she stopped taking zocor after a month and was able to finish school with high marks.

It has been all over the news that Statins can cause some ppl to have memory loss, and my mom was one of them.

Why not have you dad stop the med for a two wk periord and see if he improves, if so then you'll have your answer. My mom is diabetic for 14 yrs. She didn't have a cholesterol problem until she was put on bp meds, and it has been a roller coaster ride all the way. Like you, I am caring for my mom and dad. He is 62 and she is 53 1/2. You are right to be concerned about your parents, who else will be if not you.

Good luck and keep us posted! I have the same problem as you, a diabetic mom with hbp and high cholesterol.

Rather insidious drugs, aren't they...those darn statins and blood pressure meds? Thanks for that story! I'll make sure to avoid doctors as much as possible. Who needs this crap?

dak2005,

I'd say that there is a very REAL possibility that your father is experiencing cognitive problems from the Zocor. Dr. Beatrice Golomb, who is doing research on patients taking statins, has found that people experience significant adverse effects from these drugs. Among the most common: muscle pain and cognitive problems. In fact, Golomb said that statins may cause cognitive problems simply BECAUSE they lower cholesterol. "Cholesterol is the main organic molecule in the brain and constitutes over half the dry weight of the brain," Golomb says.

I would say that AZ is right. As far as over-managing your father's health problem, i would tell you that if we wouldn't have "over managed by mother's condition, she would have been dead 3 years ago due to the arrogance and ignorance of her doctors. These were supposedly some of the bEST doctors in their field at the top 5 neurology centers in the country. I would suggest that you call the Statin Study at UCSD. Search (statin study ucsd). One site will say the study is closed....the next site will give you the numbers. Talk to marvin,...ext 215. Don't stop fighting and don't let the doctors push you around. My mothers neurologist wants her off the cholesterol lowering medication she is on (zetia) for at least 6 months. That is the time it can take to possibly start resolving mitochondria damage. That is if the damage is reversible. (in her case , i doubt it) The older a person gets , the less likely the damage is reversible.