madmac
06-03-2005, 09:42 AM
Seen a few people in my time during bouts of depression- GP and crisis centre, even p-emerge. All asked the question about a plan for suicide, but stated before "If you answer yes to the following question, I will have to pink slip you immediately. Are you considering suicide? Do you have a plan? So how do you feel then?" Well, um pretty bad, but not that bad" Which means no help just when needed, but who has benifited? Seems to me the docs have found a way to reduce work load- scare off the most needing- and placed public at risk with a really depressed person with a very fast mbike.
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Zbaby
06-03-2005, 10:17 AM
Yeah, I've noticed that, too. When I was a teen, my parents took me to the ER due to an overdose on pills - suicide attempt. I saw my father deny that it was a suicide attempt, noting that I just "forgot" how many aspirin I took over the course of a few hours (more like 5 minutes). BTW - aspirin OD, not an effective method to off yourself :) But if you want cry for help, you can't get much safer than that.
Yes, I've denied suicidal thoughts as an adult 'cause I didn't want to be dragged away by men in white suits. In college I had an emotional discussion with my resident assistant (RA) and then went off to see if anyone would get a pizza with me. I asked all my friends individually, but none of them were in the mood, so I went on the second floor and got a male buddy - who I normally don't hang out with - to order a pie with me. So we're kicking back, chowing down, and I'm feeling good by not talking about my problems. Suddenly my flaming friend M. charges in, grabs me and says, "Are you okay? We've been looking all over for you!"
Turns out my RA overreacted and told university staff about our conversation. I had mentioned that I was suicidal as a teen, and they jumped to the conclusion that I was about to off myself again. Despite my assurances to the contrary, I was forced to go to an ER - again! - and get clearance from a p-doc there. Lots of waiting, hanging out with the wounded and the drunken who received their wounds while inebriated, etc. P-doc was rather ineffectual and put me through the battery of tests even after I told him I was fine.
Lesson learned - take a look at who you tell about your thoughts, past or present. If you don't trust or relate to them very well, find another p-doc or friend who will listen. Not all docs will jump the gun on committing you or assuming you're a danger to yourself. Best to tell them early than to wait until after you've devised an intricate plan.
Yes, I've denied suicidal thoughts as an adult 'cause I didn't want to be dragged away by men in white suits. In college I had an emotional discussion with my resident assistant (RA) and then went off to see if anyone would get a pizza with me. I asked all my friends individually, but none of them were in the mood, so I went on the second floor and got a male buddy - who I normally don't hang out with - to order a pie with me. So we're kicking back, chowing down, and I'm feeling good by not talking about my problems. Suddenly my flaming friend M. charges in, grabs me and says, "Are you okay? We've been looking all over for you!"
Turns out my RA overreacted and told university staff about our conversation. I had mentioned that I was suicidal as a teen, and they jumped to the conclusion that I was about to off myself again. Despite my assurances to the contrary, I was forced to go to an ER - again! - and get clearance from a p-doc there. Lots of waiting, hanging out with the wounded and the drunken who received their wounds while inebriated, etc. P-doc was rather ineffectual and put me through the battery of tests even after I told him I was fine.
Lesson learned - take a look at who you tell about your thoughts, past or present. If you don't trust or relate to them very well, find another p-doc or friend who will listen. Not all docs will jump the gun on committing you or assuming you're a danger to yourself. Best to tell them early than to wait until after you've devised an intricate plan.
*music23*
06-03-2005, 07:52 PM
Yes, I have noticed precisely the same thing. And more than anything, I have learned to be careful when I talk to my teachers. I can't tell you how many calls home over the years my parents have received, saying that I might be in danger.
Also, and this was crazy... I emailed one of my teachers who I generally really trust (as he has dealt with me a bunch of times, and he's a good guy) about a friend of mine who had suddenly begun to constantly say really depressing, self-degrading, and suicidal things because I was worried. And my teacher CALLED THE COPS and told them to go over to his house! He didn't talk to his parents, nothing. He just called the cops and had them show up at his house and asked him if he was ok and stuff, and they talked to his parents. I couldn't believe it. My friend was so pissed off at me, and I ended up apologizing to him. I was so mad at my teacher too. My friend needed help; he didn't need the pants scared off of him and his parents. I had a long talk with my teacher about it, and for the 9 billionth time, he explained to me all the legal stuff he has to worry about. Well, that's all well and good, but sometimes I think people need to use a little common sense.
Kristina :wave:
Also, and this was crazy... I emailed one of my teachers who I generally really trust (as he has dealt with me a bunch of times, and he's a good guy) about a friend of mine who had suddenly begun to constantly say really depressing, self-degrading, and suicidal things because I was worried. And my teacher CALLED THE COPS and told them to go over to his house! He didn't talk to his parents, nothing. He just called the cops and had them show up at his house and asked him if he was ok and stuff, and they talked to his parents. I couldn't believe it. My friend was so pissed off at me, and I ended up apologizing to him. I was so mad at my teacher too. My friend needed help; he didn't need the pants scared off of him and his parents. I had a long talk with my teacher about it, and for the 9 billionth time, he explained to me all the legal stuff he has to worry about. Well, that's all well and good, but sometimes I think people need to use a little common sense.
Kristina :wave:
madmac
06-03-2005, 08:53 PM
common sense is good, over-reacting is bad. But if the person has been taken/asked to be taken to a p-emerge, or is on a suicide prevention/crisis line- they are reaching out as a last grasp from self harm as simply a way to escape mental torture. Yes, I am suggesting there is a difference between "I want to cease to exist" for ever and "I'm willing to die to escape mental anguish"-(usually followed by massive overdoses). It's the latter I'm talking about. Others probably have other opinions.
However, what I'm getting at, is that these gatekeepers are asking someone who is in terrible anguish to tell a complete stranger, "Yes, I take your dare, lock me up". Do they consider how hard it is to tell even a confidant how they feel, and here they are, a complete stranger, often with a gorrilla in a suit beside them, asking for very painful thoughts to be given, including the expense of one's freedom.
It seems completely butt-backwards to me. Obviously the person is in toture, otherwise they wouldn't be there/on the phone. Maybe just taking them in for a short time, with no strings would be best. I realize this might be open to abuse (GF threw me out- I'll act tearful and get a nights rest at the looney-bin). Not sure how it would work, but I know the present one doesn't.
end
However, what I'm getting at, is that these gatekeepers are asking someone who is in terrible anguish to tell a complete stranger, "Yes, I take your dare, lock me up". Do they consider how hard it is to tell even a confidant how they feel, and here they are, a complete stranger, often with a gorrilla in a suit beside them, asking for very painful thoughts to be given, including the expense of one's freedom.
It seems completely butt-backwards to me. Obviously the person is in toture, otherwise they wouldn't be there/on the phone. Maybe just taking them in for a short time, with no strings would be best. I realize this might be open to abuse (GF threw me out- I'll act tearful and get a nights rest at the looney-bin). Not sure how it would work, but I know the present one doesn't.
end
vo-5
06-03-2005, 09:57 PM
I've learned the "right" answers. As someone sick, all you have to do is know the "right" answers. You give them the "right" answers and you're free. BTW, the suicide prevention/crisis lines will rat you out to your local police and they will come and lock you up, until you give them "right" answers.
madmac
06-03-2005, 10:43 PM
uh...they didn't rat me out. I am wondering what the "right" answers are, and what the desired outcome is you talk of? Freedom to hide in anguish for days or drink/pill/insulin oneself into a 3 day vacation is got with a "no, I don't have a plan"- but this is a pretty painful "freedom". What's the other option and attendant "right answers"? "Yes, I've got a bottle, a bike that'll top the ton, a tank of gas and a destination with a semi, and I don't plan on wearing leather or a helmet"?, then renage a few days later?
emeraldeyes114
06-04-2005, 04:43 AM
:blob_fire I was taken to the Er once by the sheriff's department. The doc who was tired and rather irritated by being seen by another idiot not wanting to stay a part of this life could have cared less. I walked out while he was busy groping a nurse. It seemed to be about the best way to me at the time. I am sure he was glad that I was gone when he got back anyway. Now I'm older and see things a bit differently. I don't want a vacation just a meds check perhaps or a chance at a life. However no insurance equals me just being s.o.l at the moment. I can't imagine they caring anymore then other idiot who was busy groping the nurse. I think the thing is that if the situation isn't a case of institutional feeling like you can only cope there kind of thing and a real deal they should take it seriously and not like you are wasting their valuable time. I think some of the Er doc's attitudes about mental illness, suicide, and all that have got to change or else nothing else will. Just a thought is all. Emerald