annica
06-04-2005, 01:31 PM
Just for some background - my 12 year old son has bipolar and takes Depakote ER and Seroquel. Raging has always been an issue, but since he went off Prozac it has died down some. His therapist says that she believes his rages stem from fear and he agrees with her.
Now the questions:
1. How should I respond when he's in the middle of a rage? It seems that no matter what I do, it's the wrong thing. I always keep my voice low and calm and ask him if I can help and inevitably he screams at me to leave him alone, so I back off and just sit feeling helpless and worried. I've asked him directly when he's stable what I should do to help him, but he never wants to talk about it.
These rages used to be severe, but have calmed in intensity in the past few months. He used to threaten me with knives, baseball bats, etc. Now those items are under lock and key so what he does instead is throw things across the room and kick the wall while screaming at the top of his lungs. He doesn't scream words, they're more like animal sounds. I can tell from the look on his face that he is "out of it" for lack of a better term. He gets this one certain sort of blank expression and his eyes seem to droop and that's when I know it's about to begin.
2. How do I find the trigger for these rages when it's not obvious to me and he won't discuss it? I know certain things set him off and I avoid those, but now he's raging and I can't see any cause and he won't tell me. He can just be eating or watching cartoons or whatever, pleasant one moment and then comes the blank look followed by an hour of rage.
3. After he's done raging, he'll either fall asleep immediately, even in the middle of the day after he's slept 12 hours the night before, or he'll start eating like he's never had food in his life. Is this some kind of chemical reaction? Last time he raged he went to the kitchen and got 6 bowls out and filled each one with a different food, then proceeded to sit down and eat it all. After that he was fine and acted as if nothing happened. We had just finished dinner an hour before he started so I was surprised that all the add'l food didn't make him sick, but it didn't.
4. For anyone who has ever raged themselves, what exactly goes through your mind during the actual rage? Is it thoughts that anger or frighten you or is it screaming in your head? I'm just trying to understand what's going on so that I can help him. Until he opens up about it, I feel completely lost.
Thanks for any insight you can offer.
Now the questions:
1. How should I respond when he's in the middle of a rage? It seems that no matter what I do, it's the wrong thing. I always keep my voice low and calm and ask him if I can help and inevitably he screams at me to leave him alone, so I back off and just sit feeling helpless and worried. I've asked him directly when he's stable what I should do to help him, but he never wants to talk about it.
These rages used to be severe, but have calmed in intensity in the past few months. He used to threaten me with knives, baseball bats, etc. Now those items are under lock and key so what he does instead is throw things across the room and kick the wall while screaming at the top of his lungs. He doesn't scream words, they're more like animal sounds. I can tell from the look on his face that he is "out of it" for lack of a better term. He gets this one certain sort of blank expression and his eyes seem to droop and that's when I know it's about to begin.
2. How do I find the trigger for these rages when it's not obvious to me and he won't discuss it? I know certain things set him off and I avoid those, but now he's raging and I can't see any cause and he won't tell me. He can just be eating or watching cartoons or whatever, pleasant one moment and then comes the blank look followed by an hour of rage.
3. After he's done raging, he'll either fall asleep immediately, even in the middle of the day after he's slept 12 hours the night before, or he'll start eating like he's never had food in his life. Is this some kind of chemical reaction? Last time he raged he went to the kitchen and got 6 bowls out and filled each one with a different food, then proceeded to sit down and eat it all. After that he was fine and acted as if nothing happened. We had just finished dinner an hour before he started so I was surprised that all the add'l food didn't make him sick, but it didn't.
4. For anyone who has ever raged themselves, what exactly goes through your mind during the actual rage? Is it thoughts that anger or frighten you or is it screaming in your head? I'm just trying to understand what's going on so that I can help him. Until he opens up about it, I feel completely lost.
Thanks for any insight you can offer.
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Picali
06-04-2005, 04:33 PM
Hi Annica
Just wanted to start by saying what an amazing mum you must be and how lucky your boy is to have you. To have someone by your side to help you through this kind of stuff is worth its weight in gold and can't be replaced by any medication or therapy, so pls give yourself a big pat on the back - I know it can be soul destroying to watch someone you love suffer.
As for the rages, I don't know how much use I can be. I used to experience similar and it was like a white light in my head - no thoughts or feelings, just this out of control anger and desire/intention to hurt (usually myself). I also used to sleep a lot after an outburst - I guess it uses up a lot of energy.
So I'm reluctant to advise you how to respond during a rage - I guess your son's therapist should have some advice? The only other thing I can think of are complementary therapies - I don't know your thoughts on them or if you have access to any, but acupunture can be useful - rebalancing the body can prevent the rages from occuring, and there are points on the body that calm the system when pressure is applied - an accupuncturist can show your son these so that he can push down in the right place when he feels a rage coming on and help abate it. Homeopathy is another good one - they can identify what they think is causing the rages by going through a really detailed history with your boy and then give him an appropriate remedy (although be aware that sometimes the problem can worsen for a couple of days whilst the remedy kicks in so you might need to brace yourself). Other than that a nutritionist can advise you on supplements that help to calm and regulate the chemicals in the brain.
I hope something there is helpful. I really feel for you - I find it hard to cope with my own bi-polar but to watch my boy experience it would break my heart. You sound like an amazing person and be proud that you're doing such a good job with him - I'm sure he appreciates everything you do.
Let us know how you're getting on
Lots of love Picali xx
Just wanted to start by saying what an amazing mum you must be and how lucky your boy is to have you. To have someone by your side to help you through this kind of stuff is worth its weight in gold and can't be replaced by any medication or therapy, so pls give yourself a big pat on the back - I know it can be soul destroying to watch someone you love suffer.
As for the rages, I don't know how much use I can be. I used to experience similar and it was like a white light in my head - no thoughts or feelings, just this out of control anger and desire/intention to hurt (usually myself). I also used to sleep a lot after an outburst - I guess it uses up a lot of energy.
So I'm reluctant to advise you how to respond during a rage - I guess your son's therapist should have some advice? The only other thing I can think of are complementary therapies - I don't know your thoughts on them or if you have access to any, but acupunture can be useful - rebalancing the body can prevent the rages from occuring, and there are points on the body that calm the system when pressure is applied - an accupuncturist can show your son these so that he can push down in the right place when he feels a rage coming on and help abate it. Homeopathy is another good one - they can identify what they think is causing the rages by going through a really detailed history with your boy and then give him an appropriate remedy (although be aware that sometimes the problem can worsen for a couple of days whilst the remedy kicks in so you might need to brace yourself). Other than that a nutritionist can advise you on supplements that help to calm and regulate the chemicals in the brain.
I hope something there is helpful. I really feel for you - I find it hard to cope with my own bi-polar but to watch my boy experience it would break my heart. You sound like an amazing person and be proud that you're doing such a good job with him - I'm sure he appreciates everything you do.
Let us know how you're getting on
Lots of love Picali xx
annica
06-04-2005, 11:56 PM
Thank you for your kind words, Picali. I hadn't thought about acupuncture before, but I do have an appointment with a nutritionist on the 13th. Maybe she can help us out.
It's interesting you said that the rage is like a white light in your head. I'm going to find a good time to talk to him about that and ask him if that sounds familiar. Maybe he just hasn't found the words to describe it the way you have. Thanks for that insight.
I've asked his therapist how she thinks I should respond, but she didn't have too much to offer because she's only been seeing him for a short time and told me that he's hard to open up. She thought fear was an issue for him because he lost his father last year and mentioned to her that he is afraid I'm going to die next and leave him all alone. I just wish I knew a way to end the rages.
It's interesting you said that the rage is like a white light in your head. I'm going to find a good time to talk to him about that and ask him if that sounds familiar. Maybe he just hasn't found the words to describe it the way you have. Thanks for that insight.
I've asked his therapist how she thinks I should respond, but she didn't have too much to offer because she's only been seeing him for a short time and told me that he's hard to open up. She thought fear was an issue for him because he lost his father last year and mentioned to her that he is afraid I'm going to die next and leave him all alone. I just wish I knew a way to end the rages.
Picali
06-05-2005, 03:40 AM
Hi Annica
Good for you with the nutritionist's appointment - they've done wonders for me. I'm so sorry for your loss - that must make the situation so much harder for you now. Was your boy BP before his dad's death or has that triggered it?
I have a couple of suggestions - I'm not a professional so you might want to chat to someone who is first, but these are things that have worked for me.
Firstly, if your boy is afraid that he is going to lose you too (which is understandable) maybe you could use the nutritionist's appointment as a starting block to improve your health and his? You can talk about the right foods to eat, get some good cookery books and choose recipes together/cook togther etc, maybe do some exercise together? You might do all of this already (sorry, I HATE it when people suggest stuff to me that I already do!) but if not, it might help to reassure him that you're fit and healthy and that you're not going anywhere anytime soon.
The other thing that might help if your boy finds it difficult to talk is to get him to express himself another way - paint, draw, write, make music, anything that he finds relatively easy and that will give him some sort of outlet for the rage (getting a 12 year old to talk is tough at the best of times, never mind under these circumstances). Maybe some kind of contact sport - I know a lot of people aren't keen these days but things like boxing and martial arts or some kind of competetive sport (swimming or running or something) give good physical outlets for anger whilst teaching discipline and self-control at the same time.
I don't know - I'm not an expert, but I am a mum and I do have BP so I can kinda see both sides. Talk things over with a professional first - I'd hate to suggest something that made the situation worse!
Let us know how you're getting on - there's always someone about if you need to let off steam.
Take care
Love Picali xx
Good for you with the nutritionist's appointment - they've done wonders for me. I'm so sorry for your loss - that must make the situation so much harder for you now. Was your boy BP before his dad's death or has that triggered it?
I have a couple of suggestions - I'm not a professional so you might want to chat to someone who is first, but these are things that have worked for me.
Firstly, if your boy is afraid that he is going to lose you too (which is understandable) maybe you could use the nutritionist's appointment as a starting block to improve your health and his? You can talk about the right foods to eat, get some good cookery books and choose recipes together/cook togther etc, maybe do some exercise together? You might do all of this already (sorry, I HATE it when people suggest stuff to me that I already do!) but if not, it might help to reassure him that you're fit and healthy and that you're not going anywhere anytime soon.
The other thing that might help if your boy finds it difficult to talk is to get him to express himself another way - paint, draw, write, make music, anything that he finds relatively easy and that will give him some sort of outlet for the rage (getting a 12 year old to talk is tough at the best of times, never mind under these circumstances). Maybe some kind of contact sport - I know a lot of people aren't keen these days but things like boxing and martial arts or some kind of competetive sport (swimming or running or something) give good physical outlets for anger whilst teaching discipline and self-control at the same time.
I don't know - I'm not an expert, but I am a mum and I do have BP so I can kinda see both sides. Talk things over with a professional first - I'd hate to suggest something that made the situation worse!
Let us know how you're getting on - there's always someone about if you need to let off steam.
Take care
Love Picali xx
Zbaby
06-05-2005, 12:26 PM
Picali's got great suggestions -- they're healthy ones appropriate for anyone, regardless of whether a person has BP. These are things I plan to do with my own son once he's able to play on his own (just a toddler now).
These concepts will be more palatable if you can make him think these were his ideas from the start. Ask, don't tell, if you know what I mean.
Also, are there any adult men in your life that he looks up to? Or at least might be able to relate to? He may be afraid of being a "momma's boy" but could open up to a mature man who may be a role model for him.
While you're taking care of him, be sure to take good care of yourself, too. You're both grieving and you both need lots of TLC. A good support network of friends and family could help you out on this -- if they aren't already doing so.
These concepts will be more palatable if you can make him think these were his ideas from the start. Ask, don't tell, if you know what I mean.
Also, are there any adult men in your life that he looks up to? Or at least might be able to relate to? He may be afraid of being a "momma's boy" but could open up to a mature man who may be a role model for him.
While you're taking care of him, be sure to take good care of yourself, too. You're both grieving and you both need lots of TLC. A good support network of friends and family could help you out on this -- if they aren't already doing so.
~PJ~
06-09-2005, 11:59 AM
Annica I'm so glad I came across your post, I was going through the threads looking for some info on kids with bp. My 8yr old nephew has recently been diagnosed and going through terrible terrible rages... It's hard to express how upsetting it is to see him going through this, as I imagine you well know. I was just wondering if your son was in school? My nephew has been out of school for a few months now due to disruptiveness and dangerous behavior ie. throwing chairs at the teacher :(
He's currently in a 8 week program at a childrens hospital thier policy on threatening or dangerous behavior is a time out and loss of privledges but it just seems to be making him worse.
He's currently in a 8 week program at a childrens hospital thier policy on threatening or dangerous behavior is a time out and loss of privledges but it just seems to be making him worse.
reesie
06-09-2005, 12:30 PM
PJ, have you read the book "The Bipolar Child"? It is quite excellent and goes into great detail of bipolar children's symptoms as well as case histories of different parents experiences in handling them. The book also has tips for parents as well and if memory serves correctly a website with a message board for parents of bipolar children to share their experiences. I haven't been the site but based on what I read about it in the book I think you may find it helpful. The book can be find absolutely everywhere. Even used bookstores. It's been around awhile and remains in print, but the newest edition has quite a few updates regarding the newer medications and more case histories as well as info on the role of the internet as a part of a parents journey and arsenal.
~PJ~
06-14-2005, 05:23 AM
Reesie, Thank's for the recomendation :) I've ordered the book so hopefully it'll be able to help us out a little, Thanx PJ