JustDave4now
06-10-2005, 11:17 AM
I have odd question, has anyone ever heard of any ties between BP and
Suppressed rage or anger? Not getting angry, but holding anger in for many years squished down.
This is kind of dark, so forgive me, but I have been in counseling for 20
Years because of two things. First I was extremely sad most of the time
And had dark thoughts of ending it. (this I fixed with counseling and
A lot of hard cognitive work.) and Second, I had a feeling of almost a constant
Suppressed rage just below my skin. I grew up abused with my father who drank to much and hit too hard. I also had a horrible time in school, and had
All kinds of mental scars that never healed.
This left me like a coiled spring, that at the slightest offense I would become
Very dangerous. This I tried to defuse with talk therapy, and always failed.
The closest I ever came, was the councilor was able to get me to sell all my
Guns (which was a good thing, given my rage) and stop my drugs back in
my 20’s, which wasn’t helping me.
But twenty years latter, I still carry the same Rage I had when I was 20, this
Horrible need to protect myself, and hurt anyone who tries to hurt me or my
Family, and it hasn’t gone away, no matter how much I work on it.
Until recently that is, I have found my new Med, the Lithium uncoils it completely. For the first time in a very long time I am no longer angry or anxious or irritable. Someone cut me off the other day, which would have sent me Into a two hour tirade normally, and I just shook my head at him and kept Going. The Rage is just gone, its very odd not to have it anymore.
So I am thinking, could it be biological, and not psychological Like I have
Been thinking all these years. Could BP cause you to hold anger in
Like a cork, and stop you from letting go of your mood. It sounds like it would do the opposit and make it change, but I don't know..
Or maybe its just a side effect of the lith. But I have been on the best
Of the anti anxiety meds, it has never even helped with this.
Its nice to find calm waters, when I always had storm seas.
I could be reaching.. Still puzzling it out.
Suppressed rage or anger? Not getting angry, but holding anger in for many years squished down.
This is kind of dark, so forgive me, but I have been in counseling for 20
Years because of two things. First I was extremely sad most of the time
And had dark thoughts of ending it. (this I fixed with counseling and
A lot of hard cognitive work.) and Second, I had a feeling of almost a constant
Suppressed rage just below my skin. I grew up abused with my father who drank to much and hit too hard. I also had a horrible time in school, and had
All kinds of mental scars that never healed.
This left me like a coiled spring, that at the slightest offense I would become
Very dangerous. This I tried to defuse with talk therapy, and always failed.
The closest I ever came, was the councilor was able to get me to sell all my
Guns (which was a good thing, given my rage) and stop my drugs back in
my 20’s, which wasn’t helping me.
But twenty years latter, I still carry the same Rage I had when I was 20, this
Horrible need to protect myself, and hurt anyone who tries to hurt me or my
Family, and it hasn’t gone away, no matter how much I work on it.
Until recently that is, I have found my new Med, the Lithium uncoils it completely. For the first time in a very long time I am no longer angry or anxious or irritable. Someone cut me off the other day, which would have sent me Into a two hour tirade normally, and I just shook my head at him and kept Going. The Rage is just gone, its very odd not to have it anymore.
So I am thinking, could it be biological, and not psychological Like I have
Been thinking all these years. Could BP cause you to hold anger in
Like a cork, and stop you from letting go of your mood. It sounds like it would do the opposit and make it change, but I don't know..
Or maybe its just a side effect of the lith. But I have been on the best
Of the anti anxiety meds, it has never even helped with this.
Its nice to find calm waters, when I always had storm seas.
I could be reaching.. Still puzzling it out.
Sponsor
angelblue65
06-10-2005, 11:28 AM
Hi Dave,
I just had to respond - you've posed a very interesting question and one I am extremely intrigued to hear what others who have this illness have to say. My BF is BPII and he confided in me a couple of months ago about this very same rage and what he has told me in bits and pieces since sounds like he could have written your post! He also had a traumatic childhood including a father who was relentless in his verbal abuse (and a couple of times physical).
I strongly believe that all this anger he has carried around with him for so so long has been due to the fact he never was able to process what happened to him as a child and it has manifested itself as PTSD. He has seen many pdocs and counselors, all pretty much having the same results as you; however, he started seeing a new therapist who does EMDR therapy. My own counseling sessions involve this type of therapy and what it does is "move your stuff that is stuck" and has worked wonders for patients who have PTSD.
The fact that you have responded well to the lithium is awesome. That must feel great that you don't feel that underlying rage. I hope at some point my BF finds the same peace. I know ongoing stress plays a big role if the rage was there to begin with and it just makes it worse with stress.
I'm sorry I've rambled because I know I haven't actually answered your question but I wanted you to know you are not the only one out there who feels the way you do. I'm going to copy my BF on this to show him he's not alone. Thanks for sharing this!
I just had to respond - you've posed a very interesting question and one I am extremely intrigued to hear what others who have this illness have to say. My BF is BPII and he confided in me a couple of months ago about this very same rage and what he has told me in bits and pieces since sounds like he could have written your post! He also had a traumatic childhood including a father who was relentless in his verbal abuse (and a couple of times physical).
I strongly believe that all this anger he has carried around with him for so so long has been due to the fact he never was able to process what happened to him as a child and it has manifested itself as PTSD. He has seen many pdocs and counselors, all pretty much having the same results as you; however, he started seeing a new therapist who does EMDR therapy. My own counseling sessions involve this type of therapy and what it does is "move your stuff that is stuck" and has worked wonders for patients who have PTSD.
The fact that you have responded well to the lithium is awesome. That must feel great that you don't feel that underlying rage. I hope at some point my BF finds the same peace. I know ongoing stress plays a big role if the rage was there to begin with and it just makes it worse with stress.
I'm sorry I've rambled because I know I haven't actually answered your question but I wanted you to know you are not the only one out there who feels the way you do. I'm going to copy my BF on this to show him he's not alone. Thanks for sharing this!
jessid
06-10-2005, 11:35 AM
i, too, had a *tremendous* amount of anger and would snap at the drop of a hat some days. since the lith, i've mellowed. to me, it sounds like the meds are working! how do you like it so far??
JustDave4now
06-10-2005, 05:08 PM
To be honest I like it,
I feel I haven't given up a thing, like I don't have foggy brain and its not hard for me to get up in the morning or anything. I find I can still write stories and poetry, and I seem to have a very level way at looking at things.
I was very sceptical about LIthium, it has such a bad boy rap. I wonder If its going to change or something on me. I am still up for one more increase on Saturday, hoping it will go smooth and not change me too much. If I start getting foggy brain I will be so dissapointed, its worked well so far.
I am going to do some research and find out if there is any connection between lithium and anger management. Maybe we are unique.
I feel I haven't given up a thing, like I don't have foggy brain and its not hard for me to get up in the morning or anything. I find I can still write stories and poetry, and I seem to have a very level way at looking at things.
I was very sceptical about LIthium, it has such a bad boy rap. I wonder If its going to change or something on me. I am still up for one more increase on Saturday, hoping it will go smooth and not change me too much. If I start getting foggy brain I will be so dissapointed, its worked well so far.
I am going to do some research and find out if there is any connection between lithium and anger management. Maybe we are unique.
Ruth6:11
06-10-2005, 09:30 PM
Interesting - I had an Ozzie & Harriet type childhood, no anger or rage even when I was at my most mania'd point.
So nothing changed for me in that respect being on lithium -
I wonder if there is anyone here who had a basically normal childhood who DOES have problem with extreme rage/anger???
:angel:
So nothing changed for me in that respect being on lithium -
I wonder if there is anyone here who had a basically normal childhood who DOES have problem with extreme rage/anger???
:angel:
JustDave4now
06-10-2005, 10:51 PM
Rage can be overpowering, and in your head justified and a part of you. When you are on a screaming mania, you feel invincible, full of self importance and destruction. All in your head of course.
You know that you are not to be messed with, and feel the power of the rage in you that is at you fingertips if you only wish to release it. Poor be the soul who messes with you who is using only regular anger, for they have no idea what they are messing with. How angry you feel, how up tight, how coiled like a spring. When you have hurt inside it twists.
This sound kind of stupid, but its how I at least come off feeling. Its unrealistic, but that doesn't matter because mania is unrealistic. The really scary part, is someone pumped up like this and in Mania could quite easily take a life if the settings were right, doing something in the peak heat of
rage. I am sure when things get cooking in the mania state, there is plenty of adrenilin kicking about.
You would think a person like this would just be in a state of Delusion, thinking they are the toughest thing walking. Well in this state, they just might be, they certainly will take things to extremes, Punches become chokes, They might just fight to live, oposed to fight to win, and in defense might kill so they can live because to them, someone is trying to kill them or someone they love. All because they have rage and Mania at the same time.
I wonder how many people feel like that, or something like that. I bet there are some. I think Mania can be more dangerous than empting your checkbook, or cheating on your spouse, it can put fuel where it is not wise to have fuel.
I for one was lucky, I never got into a situation where my rage and hurt came out. But I am smart enough to know it could have, I am greatful for the kind councilors over the years that steared me clear of the rocks.
People always talk about anger like it is a light switch, Anger to me is a storm cloud, just when you think its gone, whap..you feel the sting of lightning. And if stuff happens, oh the storm clouds form.
So its nice to get away from all that, nice to escape and have calm. I wonder now that I have calm, if I stopped the lith, would the clouds come back? hmmmm
Anywho, okay done rambling...
You know that you are not to be messed with, and feel the power of the rage in you that is at you fingertips if you only wish to release it. Poor be the soul who messes with you who is using only regular anger, for they have no idea what they are messing with. How angry you feel, how up tight, how coiled like a spring. When you have hurt inside it twists.
This sound kind of stupid, but its how I at least come off feeling. Its unrealistic, but that doesn't matter because mania is unrealistic. The really scary part, is someone pumped up like this and in Mania could quite easily take a life if the settings were right, doing something in the peak heat of
rage. I am sure when things get cooking in the mania state, there is plenty of adrenilin kicking about.
You would think a person like this would just be in a state of Delusion, thinking they are the toughest thing walking. Well in this state, they just might be, they certainly will take things to extremes, Punches become chokes, They might just fight to live, oposed to fight to win, and in defense might kill so they can live because to them, someone is trying to kill them or someone they love. All because they have rage and Mania at the same time.
I wonder how many people feel like that, or something like that. I bet there are some. I think Mania can be more dangerous than empting your checkbook, or cheating on your spouse, it can put fuel where it is not wise to have fuel.
I for one was lucky, I never got into a situation where my rage and hurt came out. But I am smart enough to know it could have, I am greatful for the kind councilors over the years that steared me clear of the rocks.
People always talk about anger like it is a light switch, Anger to me is a storm cloud, just when you think its gone, whap..you feel the sting of lightning. And if stuff happens, oh the storm clouds form.
So its nice to get away from all that, nice to escape and have calm. I wonder now that I have calm, if I stopped the lith, would the clouds come back? hmmmm
Anywho, okay done rambling...
Ruth6:11
06-11-2005, 12:13 AM
My manias were full of no sleeping, rapid speech, go-go-go do-do-do, alot of cosmic connections between God & the smallest raindrop.
No rage.
I must have been the Buddha of Bipolars!!
:angel:
No rage.
I must have been the Buddha of Bipolars!!
:angel:
Zbaby
06-11-2005, 03:48 AM
In the last 5+ years, I have not experienced any rage that even comes close to the experiences described on this thread. However, as a teenager and through my early twenties I am sure that I held on to a lot of repressed anger. In my teens and in college I would sometimes feel pushed to the edge, as if the world was out to get me, so I lashed out spewing a steady stream of obscenities that usually seemed out of character for me. Often the triggers were perceived emotional attacks and humiliation moreso than physical threats. Case in point: a boyfriend I was "mad" about really did make me mad when he broke up with me over the phone. Between the tears my potty mouth reared its ugly head. It took me a while to realize that it wasn't normal to express myself this way when I was truly emotionally distraught by rejection or loss.
Even in my early twenties, an old boss of mine (a real shrew!) commented that she sensed a lot of anger in me. I thought she was full of it, but in retrospect she was probably right. For a while I had this "everyone's out to get me and life is so unfair" complex that was so delightful for those who tried to get close to me.
Though it's natural to get angry now and then, I do think the intensity and irrational causes of the anger can be extreme for me. Don't know if it's got anything to do with the BP, but it's entirely possible.
BTW, I learned the hard way that you can't take back the words or apologize and expect all to be forgiven after you curse someone out. The obscenities no longer factor into arguments with loved ones. It took a lot of tai chi, yoga, accupunture and Thich Nhat Hanh "buddhism for dummies" books to get to that point.
Even in my early twenties, an old boss of mine (a real shrew!) commented that she sensed a lot of anger in me. I thought she was full of it, but in retrospect she was probably right. For a while I had this "everyone's out to get me and life is so unfair" complex that was so delightful for those who tried to get close to me.
Though it's natural to get angry now and then, I do think the intensity and irrational causes of the anger can be extreme for me. Don't know if it's got anything to do with the BP, but it's entirely possible.
BTW, I learned the hard way that you can't take back the words or apologize and expect all to be forgiven after you curse someone out. The obscenities no longer factor into arguments with loved ones. It took a lot of tai chi, yoga, accupunture and Thich Nhat Hanh "buddhism for dummies" books to get to that point.
JustDave4now
06-11-2005, 11:44 PM
hmm, okay I reread my thoughts, LOL, hmmm okay maybe not that strong, but you get the hint. It could be just people who had a tramatic problem growing up, and nothing to do with BP, or maybe BP just amps it.
Either way, I was just trying to get to the point that BP meds helped me with my pent up anger and rage, so maybe someone else can realize that you don't have to live like that, you can find relief.
I thought I had to just deal with it, nice to know that wasn't the case.
Either way, I was just trying to get to the point that BP meds helped me with my pent up anger and rage, so maybe someone else can realize that you don't have to live like that, you can find relief.
I thought I had to just deal with it, nice to know that wasn't the case.
Zbaby
06-12-2005, 03:06 AM
Oooh, did I sound harsh, JD? Meant to say I know where you're coming from :) Yeah, the meds have helped mellow me out, too. My indignant streaks happen less frequently and with less intensity. It really is tough on your body and on your relationships to be so wound up like that.
FrmlyMidwestGrl
06-12-2005, 03:53 PM
Zbaby - I too have felt this way and it help to ruin my marriage after 10 years. You can't take back those words said even though you feel it was just a moment of rage and not meant.
I'm on a combination of Celexa and Trileptal which has helped me tremendously. I don't have the rages that I had and my mood is more stabilized. I do get down at times, but it seems to last only a day or two now.
JustDave4Now - Isn't it great feeling when you finally feel "normal".
I'm on a combination of Celexa and Trileptal which has helped me tremendously. I don't have the rages that I had and my mood is more stabilized. I do get down at times, but it seems to last only a day or two now.
JustDave4Now - Isn't it great feeling when you finally feel "normal".
JustDave4now
06-12-2005, 06:00 PM
It is very nice to be calm, that is a good feeling indeed.
I just upped my Lith dose last night again to the final amount the doctor wants me on, Feeling the medicine a bit now, but it may be that i just need to adjust.
Going to get a blood test soon for levels, though I am unsure why that is a better indication that its working than me saying "umm yea that feels better", I understand you have to be careful of Lith tox, but what if you have light amounts of lith, is that harmful too? I meant if 1 pill does it, why not keep it at one pill.
Oh, and Zbaby, you didn't sound harsh at all, I sounded harsh when I reread myself, thats all. I liked your post, it was helpful :)
I just upped my Lith dose last night again to the final amount the doctor wants me on, Feeling the medicine a bit now, but it may be that i just need to adjust.
Going to get a blood test soon for levels, though I am unsure why that is a better indication that its working than me saying "umm yea that feels better", I understand you have to be careful of Lith tox, but what if you have light amounts of lith, is that harmful too? I meant if 1 pill does it, why not keep it at one pill.
Oh, and Zbaby, you didn't sound harsh at all, I sounded harsh when I reread myself, thats all. I liked your post, it was helpful :)
jessid
06-14-2005, 11:22 AM
I meant if 1 pill does it, why not keep it at one pill.
my pdoc feels the exact same way. although i am only (level-wise) at a 0.6, which is not considered "therapeutic", i am stable and have no side effects, so he keeps me at that dose.
my pdoc feels the exact same way. although i am only (level-wise) at a 0.6, which is not considered "therapeutic", i am stable and have no side effects, so he keeps me at that dose.
kproy
06-16-2005, 10:40 AM
Hi Dave,
I just had to respond - you've posed a very interesting question and one I am extremely intrigued to hear what others who have this illness have to say. My BF is BPII and he confided in me a couple of months ago about this very same rage and what he has told me in bits and pieces since sounds like he could have written your post! He also had a traumatic childhood including a father who was relentless in his verbal abuse (and a couple of times physical).
I strongly believe that all this anger he has carried around with him for so so long has been due to the fact he never was able to process what happened to him as a child and it has manifested itself as PTSD. He has seen many pdocs and counselors, all pretty much having the same results as you; however, he started seeing a new therapist who does EMDR therapy. My own counseling sessions involve this type of therapy and what it does is "move your stuff that is stuck" and has worked wonders for patients who have PTSD.
The fact that you have responded well to the lithium is awesome. That must feel great that you don't feel that underlying rage. I hope at some point my BF finds the same peace. I know ongoing stress plays a big role if the rage was there to begin with and it just makes it worse with stress.
I'm sorry I've rambled because I know I haven't actually answered your question but I wanted you to know you are not the only one out there who feels the way you do. I'm going to copy my BF on this to show him he's not alone. Thanks for sharing this!
I just had to respond - you've posed a very interesting question and one I am extremely intrigued to hear what others who have this illness have to say. My BF is BPII and he confided in me a couple of months ago about this very same rage and what he has told me in bits and pieces since sounds like he could have written your post! He also had a traumatic childhood including a father who was relentless in his verbal abuse (and a couple of times physical).
I strongly believe that all this anger he has carried around with him for so so long has been due to the fact he never was able to process what happened to him as a child and it has manifested itself as PTSD. He has seen many pdocs and counselors, all pretty much having the same results as you; however, he started seeing a new therapist who does EMDR therapy. My own counseling sessions involve this type of therapy and what it does is "move your stuff that is stuck" and has worked wonders for patients who have PTSD.
The fact that you have responded well to the lithium is awesome. That must feel great that you don't feel that underlying rage. I hope at some point my BF finds the same peace. I know ongoing stress plays a big role if the rage was there to begin with and it just makes it worse with stress.
I'm sorry I've rambled because I know I haven't actually answered your question but I wanted you to know you are not the only one out there who feels the way you do. I'm going to copy my BF on this to show him he's not alone. Thanks for sharing this!
kproy
06-16-2005, 11:01 AM
Dear Angel Blue,
I am new to this site, and have been reading through the postings, and I must admit that this posting has just really hit a nerve. I too was just diagnosed with PTSD as well as BP, just this week, originally stemming from severe verbal abuse from my father.
For years, I self-medicated with alcohol, just like he did, until I got sick and had a stroke at the age of 34. Things got worse from there. I was depressed from almost dying from the stroke, wishing that I actually had died instead of going through this. Now over the past year and a half, the doctors have been trying to figure out what was wrong with me. Of course all the while, I contniued to self-medicate with the alcohol. Until about 3 weeks ago when I was hospitalized again with stroke like symptoms. They couldn't figure out what was wrong with me, so they increased my medications. 150 mg of Topamax a day. 4 mg of Klonopin a day, started me on effexor, and gave me a huge bottle of Ativan to take when I started feeling nervous. And by the way, I only weigh 120 pounds. I came home, continued with the alcohol, took my meds as prescribed, became a zombie, and started to have black outs. The last one I cannot even remember anything except waking up in the ER in 4 point restraints. I was home alone with my kids, and here is the kicker, I had only had 1 beer and 1 glass of wine. The next day I went to see a new neurologist who caught the PTSD right away, as well as the BP. He immediately took me off the Effexor and is slowly tapering me off of the other crap they put me on so he can get me on the right stuff. My husband is signing us up for counseling and I am going to go to group therapy for PTSD survivors. But in the meantime, Man am I going through some withdrawals. I am having horrific nightmares, cold sweats. I hear my kids call out for me at night when they aren't. I keep pushing my husband away, but getting upset with him when he is not there when I need him. God, I am a mess. I can't wait to feel "normal" again. Kim
I am new to this site, and have been reading through the postings, and I must admit that this posting has just really hit a nerve. I too was just diagnosed with PTSD as well as BP, just this week, originally stemming from severe verbal abuse from my father.
For years, I self-medicated with alcohol, just like he did, until I got sick and had a stroke at the age of 34. Things got worse from there. I was depressed from almost dying from the stroke, wishing that I actually had died instead of going through this. Now over the past year and a half, the doctors have been trying to figure out what was wrong with me. Of course all the while, I contniued to self-medicate with the alcohol. Until about 3 weeks ago when I was hospitalized again with stroke like symptoms. They couldn't figure out what was wrong with me, so they increased my medications. 150 mg of Topamax a day. 4 mg of Klonopin a day, started me on effexor, and gave me a huge bottle of Ativan to take when I started feeling nervous. And by the way, I only weigh 120 pounds. I came home, continued with the alcohol, took my meds as prescribed, became a zombie, and started to have black outs. The last one I cannot even remember anything except waking up in the ER in 4 point restraints. I was home alone with my kids, and here is the kicker, I had only had 1 beer and 1 glass of wine. The next day I went to see a new neurologist who caught the PTSD right away, as well as the BP. He immediately took me off the Effexor and is slowly tapering me off of the other crap they put me on so he can get me on the right stuff. My husband is signing us up for counseling and I am going to go to group therapy for PTSD survivors. But in the meantime, Man am I going through some withdrawals. I am having horrific nightmares, cold sweats. I hear my kids call out for me at night when they aren't. I keep pushing my husband away, but getting upset with him when he is not there when I need him. God, I am a mess. I can't wait to feel "normal" again. Kim
angelblue65
06-16-2005, 11:28 AM
Kim, I don't want this to come across as "preachy" as I know alot (emotions and intentions) can get lost in translation but I was really concerned when reading your post. I know from experience watching my BF - who rarely drinks because 1) of his past history and 2) it's dangerous mixing with medications - that it is not a good idea, especially now just being diagnosed. Have you made an appointment to see a psychiatrist (pdoc)?
I am so sorry to hear of everything that you are going through but it's good to hear that your husband is there for you. Please, I urge you to do whatever you need to do to get things under control, both for yourself and your family. I am so glad you came here to this board. We are all here to support each other.
Take things one day at a time and don't forget to breathe! You're making the first step by seeking help. I wish you the best and let us know how you are doing. :angel:
I am so sorry to hear of everything that you are going through but it's good to hear that your husband is there for you. Please, I urge you to do whatever you need to do to get things under control, both for yourself and your family. I am so glad you came here to this board. We are all here to support each other.
Take things one day at a time and don't forget to breathe! You're making the first step by seeking help. I wish you the best and let us know how you are doing. :angel:
Zbaby
06-16-2005, 11:59 AM
Kim - You're a star for doing everything you can to get yourself back on the right track! All of us are aware of how excruciating withdrawal can be, but the fact that you're pulling yourself through it proves that you are not a complete mess. You're at least aware of your behavior and of the problem, when you could just as easily remain in denial and keep moving along a self-destructive path.
Your doc sounds like someone who really cares. I hope he's helping you through this horrible but worthwhile period in your life.
I am amazed at your strength and responsible behavior after so many years of self-destructive behavior. You are a jewel, not a mess, in my eyes. Your family must know how much you love them, and you're lucky that the husband is hanging in there. If you haven't already done so, please educate yourself the DH about your symptoms. Understanding your condition may help soften the blow of your current experiences and help you keep them in perspective.
Your doc sounds like someone who really cares. I hope he's helping you through this horrible but worthwhile period in your life.
I am amazed at your strength and responsible behavior after so many years of self-destructive behavior. You are a jewel, not a mess, in my eyes. Your family must know how much you love them, and you're lucky that the husband is hanging in there. If you haven't already done so, please educate yourself the DH about your symptoms. Understanding your condition may help soften the blow of your current experiences and help you keep them in perspective.
angelblue65
06-16-2005, 12:26 PM
Very well stated Z - anyone who has awareness and is facing things head on should be commended. It's never easy. I'm glad you followed up with some very kind words of encouragement for Kim!