Stopped Diovan--Hurrah--Frank619 is back!! [Archive]

frank619

06-16-2005, 04:35 PM

Well, I am back, y'all. Like I said in my past thread, I did talk to my doctor and he went ahead and tried my little experiment. I have been off the Diovan for the last 2 weeks and my bp has stayed about the same, sometimes better. Today it was 104/86!! As part of the deal I cut with him, he did put me on Zoloft and a sleeping pill called Lunesta to see if my hbp is more stress/sleep induced than physical. If anyone out there has any experience with these, let me know. I am not sure if they are replacing the Diovan's work, but so far I feel the same as I felt with the Diovan. I have lost about 10 pounds and have tried to stay off the sodium--but this is mucho impossible. I was scared to get off the Diovan, but I just had to. And I don't regret it one bit. I am still jogging about 4 miles every two days. It may be too early to tell how my body will respond once the Diovan is completely out of my system, but so far--everything is fine. It does help that it is summer, and except for the Downing Street Memo briefing being on CSpan-3, nothing is stressing me out. Now, I begin my fiendish plan to rid my body of the zoloft and lunesta as soon as possible.

Sponsor

rander5

06-16-2005, 07:16 PM

That's awesome - congratulations!!!

How does the Lunesta work - do you feel groggy in the am

frank619

06-18-2005, 12:38 AM

Nope. No grogginess at all with Lunesta. But tell you what: make sure there are no emergencies in the middle of the night--like tornadoes or fire or burglars, because you ain't waking up... Its strength time must be a solid 8 hours and then it wears off fast. At least, that's what's happening to me. I want to get off of it cuz I don't like drugs in my body at all. The Zoloft has to go, too. They say you can't get hooked on them, but that's hard to believe. I do feel rested, though. I had been waking up at 3:40am every night for weeks and the lunesta has helped. Too bad. It's gotta go.

rander5

06-18-2005, 09:14 AM

I believe a lot of my bp problems are all anxiety related too - I told the doc I wouldn't take any bp meds until we tried to contain the anxiety and I think we have done that and my bp this am was 108/68!
Good luck with everything!

Uff-Da!

06-18-2005, 10:44 AM

Woohoo! Glad to hear that you were able to get off the Diovan and that your BP is doing well.

I, too, was on HBP meds due to emotional causes. In my case it was extreme stress plus chronic sleep deprivation for years while I cared for my stroke-survivor husband. I've since also been able to get off the meds.

My doctor also put me on Zoloft, and I was on it for a year. I remember when I first took it, my thought was, "Wow! Is this what it feels like to be normal?" Because I had been a nervous, anxious person all my life, whose shoulder muscles were constantly tied up in knots, who couldn't sleep, etc. And Zoloft helped that. Unfortunately, in my sleep-deprived situation (my husband would often need assistance or supervision during the night), it allowed me to go to sleep too easily. I found that I'd fall asleep at the wheel (where I'd wake up when my head jerked as I dosed off) maybe a dozen times each way on the 20 mile trip to see my husband's doctor. And during the rest of the drive, my eyes wouldn't focus properly. After I drove off the road one time, I decided the Zoloft had to go.

But by chance, I'm now taking something else which has calmed my anxiety and largely eliminated the problem of chronic shoulder tightness. Magnesium. Yes, common old magnesium. My doctor had recommended it when I started getting nocturnal leg cramps frequently, but much to my surprise, it also greatly improved my tendency to be anxious all the time. For me it has almost the same calming effect as Zoloft. You might want to try it.

red-rider

06-19-2005, 06:22 AM

Uff-Da~you must share the details! About the magnesium~what dose or brand is it? Is it taken by itself or in a multivitamin? I have heard about it before. Also that B-vitamins are good for the nerves. But magnesium for anxiety sounds GREAT to me.
thanks :) RR

Uff-Da!

06-19-2005, 07:52 AM

Well, obviously magnesium isn't going to help everyone's anxiety problem, but I'll bet there are many people out there who have a magnesium deficiency and don't know it. I eat a LOT of fruits and vegetables, so get more dietary magnesium than the RDA, but I still have the problem. I apparently don't absorb it well.

For the past several years I've been taking 250 mg. magnesium oxide, the cheapest, most readily available and most poorly absorbed type. Recently, though, I've started to get leg and foot cramps and restless legs syndrome again, so I've upped the amount to 500 mg. daily. That is above the Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) of 350 mg for supplemental magnesium, though, so I plan to check with my doctor before I do that long-term. Usually if a person is getting too much, they will get diarrhea, so I think I'm probably okay. I wouldn't recommend going over the UL for anyone else, though, unless you've checked with your doctor or are only doing it short-term.

Before you try it, I'd recommend reading the following:

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/magnesium.asp

Here is an interesting quote from that source:

Some observational surveys have associated higher blood levels of magnesium with lower risk of coronary heart disease [50-51]. In addition, some dietary surveys have suggested that a higher magnesium intake may reduce the risk of having a stroke [52]. There is also evidence that low body stores of magnesium increase the risk of abnormal heart rhythms, which may increase the risk of complications after a heart attack [4]. These studies suggest that consuming recommended amounts of magnesium may be beneficial to the cardiovascular system. They have also prompted interest in clinical trials to determine the effect of magnesium supplements on cardiovascular disease. In reading that article, you'll notice that it doesn't say anything about magnesium for anxiety. I'm assuming that my reaction to it falls under the single related statement that magnesium helps maintain nerve function.

Incidentally, some medications, such as thiazides, deplete magnesium if taken long term. Some OTC products contain magnesium and can lead to toxicity if taken long term. The article I mentioned lists some of these.

Lenin

06-19-2005, 08:15 AM

I agree 1000% with the efficacy of magnesium. If any Vitamin store mineral can be called a WONDER DRUG, magnesium is it.
Never worry about the bioavailabliity of MgO, almost all magnesium compounds are 100% soluble in the stomach: I buy the Mg and take 250mg. daily. If you take too much, the body dilutes it in the intestines by pouring water into the gut, the result is diahrrhea as in a "dose of salts" which is a couple Tbsp. Epsom Salts (magnesium sufate heptahydrate.)

It works wonders with rhythm irregualrities and should really be the first thing all "palpitators" try.

It DOES function as an aid to sleep, a nice extra.

Uff-Da!

06-19-2005, 08:35 AM

Never worry about the bioavailabliity of MgO, almost all magnesium compounds are 100% soluble in the stomach.Well, the government source I referred to above has this to say: In a study that compared four forms of magnesium preparations, results suggested lower bioavailability of magnesium oxide, with significantly higher and equal absorption and bioavailability of magnesium chloride and magnesium lactate.But the way I look at it is this: If it isn't absorbed as well, one just has to take a little more to do the same job. And the oxide form is readily available and cheap.

ARIZONA73

06-19-2005, 09:12 AM

Uff-Da!

06-19-2005, 12:54 PM

Magnesium oxide, the type most frequently found in mineral supplements, does easily raise the standard blood serum level, but other forms deliver the nutrient to tissues more successfully.

Arizona - Does Aitkins give any reference for this?

Anyone who understands the human body better than I - Does that make sense, that it could raise the blood serum level without delivering to the tissues very well, whereas another type could do better? I just don't know enough about how these things work to know if that sounds valid or not.

ARIZONA73

06-19-2005, 04:58 PM

Uff-Da!,

Sorry, but that's all it says. I don't see any reference to any particular study. However, like calcium, some forms of magnesium are apparently absorbed better than others. I'm not really sure if it actually makes much of a difference which form of magnesium is used, just so long as you are absorbing enough of it.

But here lies the problem. In another book ("User's Guide to Nutritional Supplements"), it states the following about magnesium blood tests:

"They're just not accurate, says Mildred S. Seelig, M.D., one of the world's authorities on magnesium. Magnesium is a difficult mineral to measure. When you have a yearly blood test, you can have your magnesium level tested. But this test, called serum magnesium, may not reveal low magnesium."

"Some doctors, including Dr. Abraham, believe that a Red Blood Cell (RBC) magnesium test is a better indicator of magnesium levels. But not all laboratories do this particular test, and many doctors are unfamiliar with it. Studies have shown that there are no blood tests that are sensitive enough to accurately diagnose magnesium deficiencies."

"So where does this leave you? Dr. Seelig suggests that taking more magnesium than the RDAs is safe unless you have kidney problems. The primary common side-effect from taking too much magnesium is loose bowels. There's an easy way to tell whether or not you have a magnesium deficiency. Increase your magnesium for a few months and see if your symptoms lessen or disappear."

"Sherry Rogers, M.D., of Syracuse, New York, finds that one of the most common symptoms of magnesium deficiency is pain in the back or neck. But there are many other signs as well. Low magnesium can cause high blood pressure, irritability, nervousness, and anxiety. It can lead to muscle cramps and spasms and muscle tension, including constipation. Magnesium deficiency can cause depression, fatigue, exhaustion, learning disabilities, and an excessive sensitivity to noise and pain. If that wasn't enough, it can contribute to poor appetite, even anorexia, and irregular or rapid heartbeat."

Uff-Da!

06-19-2005, 06:46 PM

Thanks, Arizona. That's probably why my doctor didn't even bother to test for it. She just told me to take magnesium. I can hardly believe that list of symptoms Sherry Rogers, M.D. listed, though. I had more than half those symptoms most of my life. Too bad I had to wait until about age 60 to find a solution! I still have the excessive sensitivity to noise, though.

Back to magnesium and blood pressure, though. According to this site:
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/magnesium.asp

"Epidemiologic evidence suggests that magnesium may play an important role in regulating blood pressure [4]." Diets that provide plenty of fruits and vegetables, which are good sources of potassium and magnesium, are consistently associated with lower blood pressure [31-33]. The DASH study (Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension), a human clinical trial, suggested that high blood pressure could be significantly lowered by a diet that emphasizes fruits, vegetables, and low fat dairy foods. Such a diet will be high in magnesium, potassium, and calcium, and low in sodium and fat [34-36].
Of course, that refers to dietary magnesium only, not additional supplements. But I strongly suspect that I'm not the only one around who, in spite of eating magnesium in excess of the RDA, still needs more.

frank - From what I read, one needs to wean off of both Zoloft and Lunestra, so if you take them for a while, then decide to try magnesium instead, don't stop cold turkey.

frank619

06-19-2005, 07:54 PM

Thanks Uff-Da. I will remember to wean off the stuff. I, too, am surprised at how calm I have become these drugs. I had been so used to going at a hundred miles an hour through grad school that I had forgotten how it feels to just leave my gaze on something for more than a second. It has also helped me stop my internal dialogue--you know, all the stuff that flows like a river in your head without you wanting it to. Funny you all should mention Magnesium--I just started on a multi-vitamin that includes it. It has fish oil, potassium and garlic also. Hopefully, it will work and I can cut the meds for good. I am close, very close.

red-rider

06-20-2005, 06:18 AM

VERY interesting! you all have informed me more about magnesium than I ever knew. Okay~I take Diovan and synthroid and a tiny dose of Ativan daily(to control bp spikes and anxiety). Where do I fit magnesium into the mix? I wonder how much to take daily? and is there any side effect that is considered serious? You know that most docs wont answer my questions~they wont validate supplements/vitamins. Although my gyn pushed calcium with vitaminD like I might die without it~LOL. I had to quit them recently~the pills were huge and gave me heartburn!
RR :)

Uff-Da!

06-20-2005, 11:20 AM

red-rider - I went to the DrugDigest website to check drug interactions and found that some products that contain magnesium may decrease the absorption of levothyroxine (in Synthroid) by the body. So I don't know how good that combination might be. I'd suggest that you check out those drug interactions yourself for details. There are several websites where you can do this.

Magnesium should not be taken by someone with kidney problems. Most "side effects" are associated with taking too high a dosage. Again, from the National Institute of Health website I listed earlier:

Dietary magnesium does not pose a health risk, however pharmacologic doses of magnesium in supplements can promote adverse effects such as diarrhea and abdominal cramping. Risk of magnesium toxicity increases with kidney failure, when the kidney loses the ability to remove excess magnesium. Very large doses of magnesium-containing laxatives and antacids also have been associated with magnesium toxicity [25]. . . Signs of excess magnesium can be similar to magnesium deficiency and include changes in mental status, nausea, diarrhea, appetite loss, muscle weakness, difficulty breathing, extremely low blood pressure, and irregular heartbeat [5,57-60]. Since the Tolerable Upper Limit (UL) of magnesium supplementation is listed as 350 mg for healthy adults, anything up to that is not likely to present problems for most people. 250 mg might be a good place to start, as that seems to be a commonly available amount in supplements. Just check for interactions with other prescription and OTC drugs you are taking first.

Lenin

06-20-2005, 11:36 AM

Uff da,

I've seen some University studies that show bioavailability of MgO is much greater than that for magnesium chelates like lactate of citrate...at least in cattle:D:D.
Dairy Science Department, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences, University of Florida, Gainesville 32611-0701

Thirty-six midlactation Holstein cows were used in a randomized incomplete block design to evaluate lactational responses to varying dietary concentrations of Mg supplemented by MgO or Mg chelate. Basal diet was 41:4:55 corn silage:cottonseed hulls:concentrate (.21% total Mg). Magnesium oxide was added to the basal diet to give .32, .37, and .43% total dietary Mg, and Mg chelate was added to provide .23, .25, and .27% Mg, DM basis. Dietary treatments were formulated to supply equal concentrations of bioavailable Mg from either Mg source. Dry matter intake and milk yield were greater by cows fed MgO-supplemented than Mg chelate-supplemented treatments. Milk fat percentages were not affected. Milk protein percentages increased with Mg chelate compared with protein percentages with MgO. Treatments did not affect gross efficiency (4% FCM/DM intake) or body weight change. Lack of response to Mg chelate suggested that either the bioavailability was not as high as assumed or that sufficient total bioavailable Mg was not provided in those treatments. A companion in vitro experiment showed that MgO-supplemented concentrates, with more total supplemental Mg, supplied two to three times more soluble Mg than Mg chelate-supplemented concentrates.

And the chelates cost MANY times the cost of the oxide, AND involve lots of pill/pills to get a decent dosage of Mg because the magnesium is tiny compared to larger chelating agent.

I think MgCl2 is out because the disassociation of most chlorides will be the equivalent of adding a huge amount of extra hydrochloric acid to the stomach...get the Zantac!

If one can stand the taste Epsom salts MgSO4 is a good choice because I;ve seen a POUND of the stuff (454,000 mg) for $.99...NOTHING is cheaper than that except beach sand...for a while I was mixing it with my Crystal Light to disguise the bitterness!:D

But, as you say, since all magnesium compounds except dolomite are freely bioavailable, any route to Rome is a good one...and a bargain flight is RARELY a bad idea.:D

mgraylorn

06-20-2005, 03:48 PM

red-rider, don't give up on the calcium and vitamin D. Most adult women do not get enough, and post menopausal women have an increased need for calcium. Calcium is needed to keep bone mineral density high and it is harder to replace once it has been depleted. Loss of bone density can start at a fairly young age, like early adult. Bone density loss can lead to increased risk of hip fracture in a fall, as well as other bone breaks. "Shrinkage" with age is related to bone loss and compression of the spinal column as well as the "dowager's hump" - that bump on the back of old lady's necks where they can't straighten up. My mother and several of her sisters' spines twisted up like pretzels when they got into their late 60s and 70s - due to osteoporosis and scoleosis.

The reason for the vitamin D is that it is necessary to utilize the calcium. If you have trouble with large calcium pills, there are formulations with smaller amounts, or cut the large pills in half and take them more frequently. My doctor tells me taking more than 500 (IU or mg, I can't remember which it is for this one) at a time is not helpful, since your body can only process about 500 units at a time.

If you absolutely can't handle the pills then be sure to increase your consumption of dairy and some vegetables - off hand I can't remember which ones, but you can web search. I refuse to drink skim milk and I find the other good dairly sources of calcium have too many calories for me to ingest the needed amount per day, so I gladly take the pills.

Uff-Da!

06-20-2005, 03:59 PM

Oh, it shouldn't be hard to get a calcium pill down. Just take a chewable TUMS. However, if you need your calcium for the calcium, don't take it with the magnesium. If you do, the calcium will improve the absorption of the magnesium, but it won't do much good for getting calcium. I just read that while I was researching the magnesium in the past couple of days. Can't remember the source, and don't have time to look for it right now.

We've had several days without rain, and with the sandy soil we have here, that means I have to get out and water my huge yard.

mgraylorn

06-20-2005, 05:10 PM

Uff-Da, I am in the same boat yard-wise. I am in central Ohio where we have barely had any measurable rain since we put in the veggie and flower gardens about 4 weeks ago. We currently have no outside water, so we carry buckets to the gardens. Takes hours. Oh well, I get my weight baring exercise ;-}

red-rider

06-21-2005, 06:46 AM

Thank you for that Uff-Da~there are many meds that must be taken apart from Synthroid~I cant even have a calcium tab or a Tums if I need it unless I space 3 hrs between them. Also Synthroid must be taken on an empty stomach~which is a pain :(
Graylorn~you are so nice to give me the calcium info. I know I need to be taking it everyday. I have bought 2 name brands and both were giant. Guess I need to split them.
best regards to you all! RR

mgraylorn

06-21-2005, 11:38 AM

There are also chewable calcium suppliments that look like a piece of candy like a carmel. They come in several flavors like chocolate. I am not sure of the calcium content and they are a bit pricey, but that is another idea. They are also in the vitamin section of the grocery store or pharmacy.

frank619

06-21-2005, 09:19 PM

Okay, guys, I have a problem. I've felt weird the last couple of days. I am not sure if it is because of the supplements I've just started. With the magnesium at 200mg, potassium at 50mg, Vitamin A at 5000IU, Vitamin E at 400IU, Selenium at 100mcg, fish oil at 800mg, garlic at 50mg and coq10 at 30mg--the numbers seem too low to be doing anything drastic to me. But my friends say I look yellow! I didn't have these symptoms before I started taking them. Ummm. Has anyone else had this problem? Sounds like a kidney problem, so I am going to stop taking them for a few days. The symptoms are a yellowish tinge to my skin, a feeling like I am bloated, a little dizzyness, a mild headache right behind the eyes and pressure in my chest. I sure hope it isn't the dropping of the diovan coming back to haunt me--my bp numbers right now are 125/91. We'll see what happens.

Uff-Da!

06-21-2005, 11:04 PM

I've never heard of these other symptoms going along with jaundice, but maybe they do, or maybe they are unrelated.
The quotes below were taken from http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003243.htm
Jaundice can be caused by too many red blood cells retiring, by the liver being overloaded or damaged, or by the inability to move processed bilirubin from the liver through the biliary tract to the gut.
A yellow-to-orange color may be imparted to the skin by consuming too much beta carotene, the orange pigment seen in carrots. In this condition, the whites of the eyes remain white, while people with true jaundice often have a yellowish tinge to the eyes.

This condition is called hypercarotenemia or just carotenemia.
Assuming the supplement you are taking is in the form of beta-carotene and the equivalent amount of 5000 IU Vitamin A, that amount would not normally cause a problem with carotenemia. If you are consuming a lot of vegetables like carrots and broccoli in addition, the total amount could be high enough to cause this. If that's the case, getting off the supplement should reverse the situation fairly quickly. I'd be much more concerned if it is a liver or kidney problem. It was a wise choice to stop the supplements until you figure things out. It could be that your liver or kidney were close to a problem already, and the supplements were just enough to put it "over the edge."

Lenin

06-22-2005, 09:53 AM

Frank,
Yellow skin is Jaundice which is usually liver failure from any of a number of causes, most often hepatitis.
If it gets to the point of EXTREME nausea, inability to bear even LOOKING at food, coffee colored urine and white stools it's a complete liver shutdown.

So keep checking your urine...if it goes very dark (brown, not yellow) see a doctor. If not, keep a watchful eye!

frank619

06-23-2005, 07:11 PM

Goodness, Gracious!! Don't scare me like that, Lenin. I went off the supplements and my skin color is back to normal. I think Uff-Dah! hit the nail on the head. I had eaten tons of vegetables a few days ago--including broccoli--couple that with my starting the supplements about then and that correlated pretty much with the beginning of these symptoms on Monday. My headaches and dizzyness are gone too. I still feel a little bloating and some chest pressure. This morning I had a hard time getting my breath when I woke up. But my bp was 128/93 this morning and it is 134/88 right now. A little high, but I expected a bump after leaving the diovan, maybe this is it. Thanks for all the support, y'all!!

Uff-Da!

06-23-2005, 10:17 PM

Wow! That sure is a quick change in the skin color. I'd expected it would take longer than that. Usually it takes quite a while to develop that color, too. From what I've read, it sounds like it is normally a long-term excess of beta carotene consumption, whether from supplements or diet, that does it. And it is usually quite a large excess, like eating half a pound of carrots a day routinely that does it. If you haven't been consuming a large amount of bright yellow, orange or dark green vegetables or the beta-carotene supplement over a long period, I'd think you might want to have your thyroid level checked to be sure, as people with hypothyroidism have a reduced ability to convert the beta carotene to vitamin A. From the AllThyroid web site:

Hypothyroidism of long duration does produce carotenemia, a condition in which there is an accumulation of beta-carotene in the tissues due to its reduced metabolism into vitamin A. The result is a yellow-orange discoloration of the skin, especially the palms and soles. Unlike jaundice, the whites (sclera) of the eyeballs are not yellow. Carotenemia can also be induced by excessive ingestion of beta-carotene-enriched food such as carrots.At any rate, you can probably leave the beta-carotene out of your mix of supplements, but still keep a large number of the colorful vegetables, as they will include a lot of additional nutrients not found in supplements. But you might not be able to handle quite as many of these foods as most of us can.

frank619

06-30-2005, 01:47 PM

Actually, I think it was the supplements. I got off of them and now I am back to normal. Something in there did mess me up for some reason. Either way, this is my 4th week off the Diovan and I am doing fine. My bp right now is 124/81. I have been jogging alot and just steadily losing weight through calorie counting. Maybe this is all it was--just being over my ideal weight. I've tried all kinds of diets, but only calorie counting worked. I am going to see my doctor tomorrow to see if I can start getting off the zoloft also. We'll see how that goes.

frank619

07-10-2005, 10:22 PM

My doctor wants me to stay on the Zoloft a little bit longer. I have dropped the Lunesta and am now sleeping quite well, unless I dream about my job--which is very stressful even when I dream about it. He gave me some baby aspirin to take on a daily basis. I am not sure if I am going to take them--I've heard that aspirin causes internal bleeding. Is this so?. He wants to see me drop down to 145 and then he would consider getting me off the Zoloft. He thinks it is mainly a weight problem, anyway. I am starting to think so also. And then job related stress. I am going to try to get some more magnesium supplements as soon as I get a chance.

Lenin

07-11-2005, 08:30 AM

Frank,
Don't be without your daily aspirin. THe risk of stomach bleeds is minimal comapred to benefit of a missed hert attack...whose risk is FAR from minimal in Western men!

I agree 10000%, calorie counting is the best way to lose weight and weightloss is the BEST way to lower blood pressure.

Uff-Da!

07-11-2005, 09:50 AM

Message deleted, as I'm now finding some conflicting evidence.

frank619

07-14-2005, 10:58 PM

I think it was the fish oil in the supplements that messed me up. I tried them once before and had to give them up because of the fish burps I was getting. And now I read in "The Week" that they may cause problems in some people suffering from heart or bp illnesses. So now, i am just buying supplements one by one to make sure I don't react badly to them. It's a pain, but...

Lenin, I tell you what. Now that I've started calorie counting, I finally realize how much I actually eat. It is amazing. And when you see your diet on paper, it just blows your mind!! What I like about calorie counting is that you don't have to live off of bagels and carrots so much. This is why I failed on the other diets. They were not meant for humans or at least, human males. I love fat. It tastes good and I love to cook out once a week--with MEAT!!! Tons of meat. If I could carry a club around, live in a cave and grunt all the time, I would. But now i watch my portions and keep to my calorie max. It has worked wonders. I am losing about a pound a week, except for when I visit my mother--who always seems to think I look too skinny. I have been about a month off of the Diovan and though my pressure is borderline sometimes and great at other times, I feel great.

frank619

08-02-2005, 09:41 PM

Hello, I am back. One month and counting off the Diovan and so far so so. My bp right now ranged from 140/90 to 126/85, so who knows??? I am running alot more and I went off the CoQ10 (50mg) and Magnesium (400 mg) supplements I had been taking cuz they made me feel weird. I am going to try potassium (99mg) and a Vitamin B complex to see how this works. If it doesn't, that's it. No more supplements for me.
Hey, I have a question for y'all. Is it possible that cholesterol could be coating the inner walls of our veins to protect us in some way? Wouldn't this account for all the heart attacks you hear people getting when their cholesterol gets too low? I mean, if the body produces it for some reason, it must be good in some way, no? Just a thought.
Anyway, I am really disappointed with my magnesium/coq10 results. Anybody else feel bad with them? I tried them for about a week and felt weird. Like my heart was working on a lower gear or something. I didn't like the way it felt.
I will let y'all know how the new supplements work out for me.
I am still taking zoloft, but I don't think it is helping anymore. And I definitely do not want the dosage upped. I will be meeting with him next week to see if he will try to wean me off of it. We shall see.

frank619

08-11-2005, 10:08 PM

Some quick news to report to y'all. I read in one of these threads where someone was keeping an eye on their carbs to see if these were responsible for bp spikes. So I decided to do some checking myself. I have been calorie counting for about two months now and I have also been checking my bp consistently over that time. Well, what i did was to plot my high bp days on a piece of paper and then I went back to those dates to find out what I had eaten on those same days. Lo and behold, poultry products!!!!!!! EVery time I had a bp spike, over 135/92, I had eaten eggs or chicken or chicken salad the same day or day before. Now, I don't want to jump to any conclusions, since I love chicken, but man, there were 20 days when this happened!!
By the way, my B-Complex and Potassium supplements are going well. No problems yet. I am going to add the Magnesium starting today, to see if it was the problem or the Coq10. We'll see what happens.
I had thought about dropping the Zoloft but have changed my mind. School's about to start and my students always manage to drive my bp up an average of 10 points on both top and bottom numbers. So I will wait on this one.

lane413

08-13-2005, 11:49 PM

I don't have high bp, but my mom does. She is also diabetic(im also) and she counts carbs to control her diabetes. When she does well with the carb counting, we notice her bp is also lower.

frank619

08-15-2005, 11:11 AM

Thanks, Lane413. I am going to try to lower the carbs and see what happens. Unfortunately, I run about 6 miles a day and if I don't eat carbs, I feel sluggish the entire day. I rechecked the days with my bp spikes and it doesn't seem like I had an abnormally high number of carbs. But I will try anything to keep from going back on the diovan. Now what I need to do is check my low bp days and see what I ate or did on those days. Hmmm, this should be interesting...

lane413

08-16-2005, 09:50 PM

My mom doesn't exactly eat very low carb. She was told to eat no more than 150 g of carbs bcuz she is diabetic. However, that's really had to stick to 150. Most veggies are carbs, so are cereals, which she loves. She walks about four or five miles daily.

Good luck and hope you find an answer.

frank619

08-18-2005, 07:19 PM

Thanks Lane413. I have to take back something I said about the carbs. Those bp spike days did have alot of carbs. Also, I found another correlation with the poultry one. My bp was higher at the end of the day. In fact 18 out of 24 days that I checked, the high reading was at the end of the day or after 5pm. My bp was fine until after lunch. Hmmm.
Right now it is 128/79, so, a few weeks after dropping the diovan, I'm not doing too badly, but it hasn't been this good in about a week.
The culprit? Y'all are going to hate me, but I think it might be supplements. I had to drop all of them, because my bp was actually going up with them. Even the Bcomplex. My bp had gone up almost the day that I started taking them. This doesn't make sense to me. I don't know what to do. The potassium, magnesium, bcomplex and coq10 so far have failed me. Also, I started feeling tightness in my neck just yesterday and I hadn't felt any in about a month. I might go back and check on the salt intake--maybe that is what is doing it--but I don't think so. This is starting to drive me bonkers.

Uff-Da!

08-18-2005, 07:31 PM

You might want to check your calcium intake or lack thereof. My SBP appears to have been running about 20-30 points higher when I don't get adequate calcium. It appears that I need it distributed throughout the day, or at least twice a day, too, to keep the BP down.

lane413

08-19-2005, 10:58 PM

Uff-DA, i think you might be on to something. When my mom went into the dr's appt today, she was told exactly that. She had blood work done last month and the report showed she had low calcium. Everything else was ok. She does drink low fat milk, but only now and then.

She will be taking calcium tablets for awhile to see what happens.

frank619

08-20-2005, 12:48 AM

Guys, at this point I will try anything to keep from going back to meds. I remember that I used to drink alot of milk when i was younger, but everyone tells you that milk is bad for you because of all the fat and I am a little bit lactose intolerant anyway. Maybe that is what I need--just straight out calcium. I am certainly willing to try it. I will probably go back to the B-Complex vitamins also. I just can't imagine that they are the culprit in raising my bp. So i will try it again. I was noticing something about my bp spikes also. When i had chocolate, especially dark chocolate, my bp went down the next day. The Aztecs used to say that chocolate was the food of the gods, so maybe they were on to something....

Uff-Da!

08-20-2005, 02:04 AM

If you choose to take your calcium as a supplement rather than in food, keep in mind that calcium isn't absorbed properly unless you get magnesium and vitamin D, too. So either take it at a meal where these nutrients are also present, or you might choose a supplement which has all three nutrients in it. Remember, you can get calcium in green vegetables and tofu, too, it isn't only in dairy products. But you would have to eat quite a lot of them to get your daily requirement, like eating them three meals a day. Most of us seem to have an easier time incorporating milk in our breakfasts than collard greens!

I'm very lactose intolerant, too. Have been for years. As I explained in another thread, I still buy non-fat milk by the gallon, just for me! I just take a generic Lact-Aid pill with each serving of milk or cheese. The Lact-Aid provides the enzyme that a lactose-intolerant person is lacking, so I have no symptoms at all.

It wasn't until this week that I realized just how big an influence calcium could be on my BP. Usually I get a lot of dairy and green veggies in my diet, so it just wasn't apparent. But for the past two weeks I've been ill and dairy and greens were off limits. But things like chicken broth were in. So I was getting a LOT of salt and my BP kept going higher and higher. It finally dawned on me that I was getting NO calcium, and I remembered reading about the importance of getting plenty of calcium if one was eating salt. So I took a Citracal Plus, which has calcium, magnesium, vitamin D and some other things. Within an hour or two my SBP had dropped 30 points and it has been running more normal since, as long as I take the supplement two or three times a day. However, I'll admit I look forward to getting my nutrients in FOOD again!

CASSIEBEL

08-20-2005, 12:32 PM

Uff Da
If you don't mind me buttin into this conversation I have a calcium question for you. I have never drank milk in my life. Never, I wasn't a botle baby (if you know what I mean). I do take calcium supplements + D twice a day and I do like cheeses and green veggies but I probably don't get the daily requirements of magnesium. So the Citracal you take, does it have enough magnesium for a whole day? How many do you take in a day?
I take my calcium (oscal) at breakfast and after dinner because I was told the calcium in Oscal needs food to be absorbed. Do you have to take citracal with food?
I was off my calcium (docs orders) for 2 weeks and I noticed that my SBP was higher duriong that time by about 30 points but only in the evening?
thanks, Cass

Uff-Da!

08-20-2005, 02:21 PM

The Citracal I take supplies only 10% of the daily need for magnesium per pill. That's probably enough to help absorb the calcium in the pill (25% of daily need per pill), but certainly wouldn't be a good choice to provide your total needs. You might check the food chart in the link below, though. You may be getting more magnesium in your diet than you realize.

I'm not aware of anything other than magnesium or vitamin D which is required for the absorption of calcium, but there might be. I usually try to take all my pills with food when I can, as there is always the potential of interactions that we don't know about. However, now that I'm sick and eating next to nothing, I have taken the Citracal with just some diluted chicken broth and a couple of crackers or diluted fruit juice and apparently absorbed enough to get my BP back down. Right now when I get diarrhea just from eating a couple of crackers, I'm trying not to take the Citracal any more than necessary just to keep my BP within reason, even though I'm falling far short of meeting my RDA. But then I'm not meeting my RDA on anything else, either. As my intestines can tolerate more, I'll up the amount until I'm able to eat dairy products and other normal foods again. Usually I feel that I'm able to get most of my RDA from food, so when I'm well, I rarely need to take more than one of the Citracal pills and often none. On a bad day diet wise, I'll take two or three. But I normally eat so little meat that I can probably get by with less than the RDA, too. Heavy meat eaters need more.

Here is a humdinger of a good article on calcium supplements:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/uspdi/202108.html

And here is a good one with charts on food sources of various minerals, calcium and magnesium included:
http://www.health.gov/dietaryguidelines/dga2005/document/html/appendixB.htm

Keep in mind, though, that this chart shows the full amount of calcium in foods like spinach, where the oxalic acid prevents the calcium from being used by the body. Oxalic acid is also present in some other green veggies, but I can't remember now which ones.

CASSIEBEL

08-20-2005, 11:09 PM

frank619

08-21-2005, 01:42 AM

Thanks for the articles Uff-Dah!. I will definitely read them soon. It's funny. I can eat cheese in pizza, and ice cream and even milk in coffee or chocolate milk without any problem, but when I drink a glass of milk, whammo, all heck breaks loose. And I love milk--especially with chocolate cake. Oh well. I started on my B-complex supplement again today, just by itself, we'll see if this messes me up or my bp goes back up again. It's too bad, I think the B-Complex was giving me alot of energy.
Uff-Dah, you reminded me of something when you were giving your symptoms in one of your posts: have you ever tried one of those cocktails in which you "Cleanse" your body? I read somewhere, I think it might have been one of those newsletters I get all the time, where there may be parasites in the intestines causing all the problems. I am too scared to try them, but supposedly, one in 5 americans has these parasites and they are the ones that cause all the diet problems for us. It sounds strange because we live in the USA but if you've tried everything else...it might be worth a try. My little sister, when just a baby, had them when we used to live in Mexico. My mother said it was because she used to eat dirt. The doctors told my parents that there was nothing they could do. So my parents took her to a 'witch doctor'--I hate calling them this, because curandera (or "curer" is more like it). Well anyway, the curandera gave my sister some herbs and it cured her completely. Again, I don't know if these guys from that newsletter are quacks or just trying to make a buck, but it just reminded me of that. Hope you feel better.

Uff-Da!

08-21-2005, 02:49 AM

I can understand why you might be more affected by a glass of milk than by cheese or ice cream, as (depending upon the quantity you eat) there may be more lactose in the milk. Here is part of a chart from one of those references:

Yogurt, plain, low-fat, 1 cup, 5 g lactose
Milk, reduced fat, 1 cup, 11 g lactose
Swiss cheese, 1 oz., 1 g lactose
Ice cream, 1/2 cup, 6 g lactose
Cottage cheese, 1/2 cup, 2–3 g lactose

It is hard to understand why you could tolerate chocolate milk but not white, though. Maybe you could examine the label and detect some difference that might be involved.

Well, I finally got the results of my lab tests late yesterday afternoon, and it appears that perhaps all this horror I've been going through the past two weeks might be an intestinal yeast infection. I guess the docs really can't say for sure until they see if an anti-fungal agent gets rid of the problem, as even "healthy" people often have yeast in their stools. But at least I'm on medication now and I think I'm just a wee bit better today than yesterday. A yeast infection really does surprise me, though, as I'd been off all antibiotics for a full three weeks before the problem really started. Plus, I had been taking acidophilis in the meantime, too. Maybe not enough, though, or maybe it wasn't any good.

mgraylorn

08-22-2005, 12:41 PM

Often times chocolate milk is made with skim or 1% milk. It may have less milk in it than regular milk.

frank619

08-25-2005, 09:01 PM

I will definitely try to drink more milk since it apparently does lower bp. And I will put up with the discomfort. I've lost twelve pounds now and it seems that my bp is still a little high. It was 130/84 at noon today and 129/86 right now. I know these don't sound high to some of you who are really up there, but i am taking zoloft and I want to get rid of it and I won't be able to with these numbers. I've even thought of getting back on diovan again to see if they would go lower...isn't that crazy? I am running a 10 mile race this Sunday--any recommendations from any of you who have hbp and run?

Uff-Da!

08-25-2005, 09:10 PM

If you think you are lactose intolerant, just take a lactase pill. I use the Wal-Mart generic for Lact-Aid. Works great. I can eat dairy just as though I have no problem at all. There is no use suffering with it. Maybe, though, you aren't lactose intolerant, but have a different sensitivity to milk products. Some people do.

frank619

08-25-2005, 09:33 PM

I don't know what is wrong with me. I've tried Lact-Aid and it doesn't help. I've also bought Mootopia and it tastes like water, so I don't bother anymore. But I think you are right, milk and yogurt do have a lowering effect on my bp--I read your other thread.

Uff-Da!

08-25-2005, 10:03 PM

You took the Lact-Aid with the first bite or sip of dairy product didn't you? (It is amazing how sometimes even the doctors don't know this. I told my late husband's doctor that he was lactose intolerant, so what did he do when hubby was in the rehab facility? Order one lactase pill in the morning. Lot of good that did when he had ice cream for lunch or a snack.) The lactase has to be present in the stomach at the same time as the dairy product. If you took them together, then you must have some type of allergy to dairy. You might just want to take calcium pills.

frank619

08-25-2005, 10:26 PM

I think it's an allergy of some kind because I did take them together. I could take the pills, but I love milk. I can do without ice cream. But not cheese or milk. And if I could find a lower carb yogurt (without aspartame) I would buy the company. In fact, do you or anyone else out there know of any food maker that we can buy low sodium stuff from? I love ranch style beans and baked beans, but man, the sodium in there is beyond belief...And I can't find anything out ther--like chips--that at least are lower sodium...

Uff-Da!

08-25-2005, 10:45 PM

I've been eating the plain yogurt since I've had this intestinal yeast infection, as much sugar would just feed the yeast. It has 19 grams carbohydrate per cup, far less than the highly sugared fruit flavors. You could always add your own fresh fruit to it, if you wanted, and keep the sugars down.

I find the best low-sodium stuff is to make my own. It really isn't that hard to make your own baked beans, bean soup, etc. You can find the recipes on the web and adjust the ingredients to suit yourself. When I make something like that, I make a big kettle of it, then package it in one or two-serving containers for the freezer. As long as I am going to dirty a bunch of dishes, I may as well make it worth my while! :D Like the pea soup I made yesterday, I made enough for 13 meals and I used only half the salt called for in the recipe. And it tastes salty enough for me! I find that if I'm getting enough calcium, the salt doesn't bother me that much, anyway.

frank619

08-27-2005, 12:27 AM

Pea soup!! Uff-Da!, my goodness, look at what we have come to. And we used to be so beautiful and strong.

frank619

08-29-2005, 08:50 PM

Hello, I am back. Yesterday I ran a 10 mile race and I am legally dead right now. I haven't checked my bp cuz I think that it might be way up. In fact, I might be afraid to check it for a while. I wonder: if I was able to do this, does this mean that I am heart attack proof? I mean, wouldn't an attack have gotten me yesterday on that 300th hill we were running? Sure seemed like it. Either way, I lost 6 pounds. Probably all water and electrolytes and thrombocytes and lukocytes and all the other cytes you can name. But I survived. I wonder if when you are so dehydrated and pushing yourself, if it acts like a pump or pressure hose on your veins and pushes all those clogging platelets out? Is this too simplistic? Am i asking for it? Oh well. Sometimes I just throw things out into cyberspace and hope some genius out there has the answers.

frank619

09-01-2005, 08:39 PM

Boy, my bp right now is 135/93 and I am getting headaches and dizzyness. Which I never get. Sometimes---dare I say it---I feel like just going back on the Diovan and not worry about it anymore. There are just so many factors involved--stress, diet, exercise, salt, genetics, weight---that to try to control it on our own seems like a never ending battle. It's like the War on Terror--you just never really know who you are fighting...

Sideem

09-02-2005, 05:53 PM

Wow frank...that's cool that you ran 10 miles. I don't know if that means you're "heart attack proof" but obviously running all those miles (sounds like that'd take over 2 hours) would keep your heart pumped and hopefully make it stronger.

Sorry to hear about your headaches now. Maybe it's after effects of running so many miles. Who knows? Your BP at the time was borderline, with the 93 going over, but I'm sure it's been higher. Congrats on the weight loss.

Just don't give up and go back on medication.

Keep us posted.

frank619

09-02-2005, 10:51 PM

Thanks, Sideem. Actually I more like staggered the 10 miles. Kinda like I used to do when I went to the University and crawled back to my dorm after a late night of carousing. But I think you are right that my dizzyness and headaches might be the after effects of running so much. Today, they pretty much vanished. I will probably go run tomorrow morning again. My bp right now is 146/91 and I just don't get it. I feel so nice and calm. What I will probably try next is a low carb diet and hope I don't bonk out on my long runs. We will see.
Either way, after losing 12 pounds and my bp not going down all that much, i am starting to get more frustrated than I usually am. I started reading a book called 'Undoing Perpetual Stress' and reading it has stressed me out too. Maybe the problem is our lifestyle. We worry too much, we live from paycheck to paycheck, we don't bond with anyone anymore, we don't trust anyone anymore, we have no heroes anymore and the people who lead us have their own cynical agendas which just depress us even further. Maybe all people with hbp are actually the ones who know what the real deal is. And the ones who are not stressing, are the ignorant ones--from the "ignorance is bliss" saying. What would happen if we stopped watching television or reading the newspapers? What would happen if we went to work and not worried about what our bosses thought or how our work was appraised? What would happen if we stopped living life like others want us to live it instead of following our own instincts and gut reactions? Maybe this is the answer to hbp for some of us. And maybe, I've had too much wine this evening...

Lenin

09-03-2005, 09:14 AM

Frank,

Don't eat low sodium and then go for a run in the heat when you can expect a 6 pound water loss. That's a DEADLY combination...and I use the term deadly with all seriousness.

What would you guess was the AVERAGE of all the BP readings you took in the last month?

frank619

09-04-2005, 12:32 AM

Lenin

09-04-2005, 09:21 AM

This month I averaged about 134/92. But most of those are on my machine at home and after taking my bp just right now, my first reading was 144/96. Then I just relaxed for a couple of seconds, took some deep breaths and re-did it and it was 129/86. So which one do you go by? I am also going to reevaluate this whole chicken thing. I can't believe it is causing my bp!!!! I am going to eat some and really pay attention to my readings right after. It must have been some fluke correlation.

Frank,

The one I go by is the 134/92. The long term average is the only one that should determine your course of action.
My method is to sit still for a couple minutes and then take THREE readings: I then discard the high and low systolic and the high and low diastolic...then I record the median values. This is a good method because it most likely discounts errant readings, both high and low. I feel it's better than averaging in the "wonky" readings we all get occasionally.

So you are getting an average 92 diastolic. If you read back to June, you'll see that average is much worse than the numbers you were getting in the first month after discontinuing the Diovan. Aside from the chicken and the supplents, neither of which is having any effect on your BP, IMHO, can you think of anything that's different in your life, something that was present in June/July but absent in August?
Are you still taking the sleeping pills or any tranquilizers? Thesy tend to have a large effect on BP.

All said, I think 134/92 without drugs is safer long term than 125/87 with drugs. That's a personal feeling with SOME evidence but not convincing evidence. But then, the evidence of the danger of a 92 diastolic isn't very strong either.

I was doing well with good numbers without my Cozaar and HCTZ but then I did a monthlong well needed vacation with a lot of drinking and a terrific amount of stress (???vacation???) and by the 4th week my BP was sky high so I went back on the damned drugs; I'm off the booze til Thanksgiving After about a week, my numbers came back down so I'm preparing to join you again in a couple day.
I DREAD the withdrawal from the thiazide AGAIN (Bloat, joint-pain, HIGH BP!)
And when I'm not drinking I need to take some low dose niacin (375 mg.) for my HDL and I HATE that stuff.
But I'll just have to put up with it for a week!

frank619

09-05-2005, 08:25 PM

Thanks Lenin. The only thing I can think of that's changed from June to August is that school's starting again and I stress out at work constantly. I only wish my students would stress out as much as I do over their learning. Maybe they know something that I don't. I need to re-eval my approach to work.
I am going to try something that Uff-Dah! said about calcium for a while and see if that works. She always gives me great advice. Perhaps milk in the morning and Citracal in the evening??? I have a friend who lives on salt and chocolate, but who takes Citracal and doesn't have high blood pressure. In fact, we call her the "Salt Monster from Star Trek" because she adds salt to her salt. Anyway, I also had to dump the magnesium again. It just isn't agreeing with me. Also, I am starting to eat chicken again. My bp right now is 141/100. It was 123/88 this morning. I did my morning jog and i ate some homemade pinto beans and quesadillas with Guava Juice (is that a diet or what??) and my bp shot straight up. Maybe it's the carbs in there. I tell you what, if it continues this way, I might just dump the Zoloft and go try the HCTZ again. Maybe I was blaming it for my insufficient weight loss, and it was just that I had to calorie count!! Because now I am losing weight. And, HCTZ would be better than diovan, no???

Lenin

09-05-2005, 09:35 PM

frank,

If you are salt sensitive, the diuretic is the far better drug, but if you are a renin hypertensive then the Diovan is the better drug.
I guess it usually comes down to trial and error but a good test is to eat a half bag of super salty Amish pretzels...if you gain 5 pounds the next day and your BP is way high, then the thiazide is your drug because you retain sodium.

frank619

09-05-2005, 10:29 PM

Lenin, thanks for the advice. I might try this, even though half a bag of pretzels sounds pretty hairy. Since I run alot, would the diuretic be worse?

Lenin

09-06-2005, 08:42 AM

Frank,

If you're taking a diuretic and running, really all you have to do is make sure you aren't making anextra effort to cut your salt intake too low. At a normal 3,000 mg./day salt intake you won't have problems with thiazide.

Just make sure you memorize the symptoms of dehydration, heat exhaustion, and water intoxication.

For me a semi-annual orgy celebration involves a comfy chair, a half bag of Amish pretzels so salty they burn my mouth and 2 cans of PepsiONE. Ohhh, the guilt!:D
Without a diuretic I can barely WALK the next day, my joints get so painfully puffed.

frank619

09-10-2005, 12:11 AM

My bp right now is 128/100 so it definitely seems to be going up. Something's gotta give! Either I go back on the diovan or I just stick it out and hope for the best. On Monday, I have an appointment with my family doctor. I don't think he is going to be pleased with numbers like that. Man, the answer looked so close a few months ago. And the Zoloft does not seem to be helping. Or the exercise. Or the losing weight. Or the cutting back on sodium. Or the breathing exercises. Or the supplements. So...where to go from here? I am getting married in December and I want to be medicine clear when I start trying to have my first kid. But I also want to be around when my first kid is born. So, what to do? What to try next?

frank619

09-11-2005, 11:01 PM

My bp right now is 127/93, so it is a little better than the last time I wrote. I ran 6 miles this morning, so maybe that had something to do with it. I meet with my doctor tomorrow and hope that we can come to some agreement on my meds. I am not sure if these numbers would warrant me going back on the meds, but I think he is going to say yes. We'll see. Pravachol and Diovan, here I come, NOT! If anything, I will take Lenin's advice and get that HCTZ again. I've read where it hasn't affected people's weight loss on these boards. Maybe I should give it another chance. This way I can drop the Zoloft altogether. I think I've pretty much capped out on it already.

Uff-Da!

09-11-2005, 11:59 PM

Good luck, Frank. With a diastolic as high as yours, if that has been pretty consistent and not just occasional, I guess I'd go back on the meds. That's really the pits that nothing else has helped. Thanks for keeping us up to date, and be sure to let us know what the doctor has to say tomorrow.

frank619

09-13-2005, 08:36 PM

I am back. My bp right now is 140/95. Yiiikes. When i went to my doctor yesterday, it was 128/82. He suggested I wean off the zoloft and just keep losing weight while we wait for a fasting lipid panel he wants me to have done. He didn't think that I should go back on the meds just yet, since he said that my bp seems to vacillate between today's reading and the one at his office. We looked over this last month's worth of readings. He didn't think the zoloft was affecting my bp one way or another. And he said my running is probably kicking out any excess salt I may have in my system. Sooo, it's going to take me about two weeks to wean off the zoloft. He said to keep an eye on my sleeping patterns too. I am happy that he didn't think I needed the meds again. Because I can lose those last 8 pounds of stomach fat I still have left, but you always wonder if you are messing up your kidneys or other innards without the meds. Oh well. We go on.

frank619

09-20-2005, 10:42 PM

Hello. I am back again. Right now my machine took these bp readings: 151/101, 132/91 and 126/92. Take your pick. If I just relax and breathe for a few seconds, the readings come spiraling down. So what should I believe with readings like this?
I am still taking the calcium and Bcomplex supplements, and I have begun to try the CoQ10 again. We'll see how it goes. I haven't been to the lab yet for my lipid panel since I am terrified of needles, but I do believe my cholesterol is going to be high and God knows what else will be out of whack this time. Either way, I think my weight loss has helped a bit and I am going to continue on this track as long as my bp does not get too high. Is diastolic in the 90s or 100s too high? I am having a hard time believing that anyone who doesn't live in a cave in the modern world can actually have a bp in the 80s or 70s...

Uff-Da!

09-20-2005, 11:52 PM

Yes, a diastolic in the 90s and 100s is too high. 90 is considered first stage hypertension. 100 is second stage hypertension. I've forgotten, Frank. What is your age? From those readings with high diastolic but comparatively lower systolic I'm guessing that you are "just a kid" compared to some of us old timers. As one ages, the systolic usually becomes the problem.

And no, I don't live in a cave, but I just took my BP and got an unmedicated 114/65 just after having a drink. I'm a female age 64, was on BP meds for five years, and have a BMI of 20.0. But my BP is all over the place. In the past month it has ranged from 96/66 to 160/79. And I haven't really been able to determine what causes either the highs or the lows. I do know that, like you, just a couple of deep breaths can lower my BP by a lot. So I try to take deep breaths whenever I think of it, not just after I've realized my BP is higher than it ought to be.

Though I don't live in a cave, I've decided to get as close to cave life as I can, and I think that has helped my BP a lot. Being around people raises my BP a lot, so I've become next thing to a hermit. I'm retired, and I just stay pretty much to myself, enjoying my hobbies alone at home most of the time. (I know, the poor working cuss can't do that.) I had my cable TV shut off, and I'm in a rural location where I can get no TV without cable or satellite. I do read the news off the internet, but find that that doesn't raise my BP as much as TV, though even it has raised my systolic by 20 points when the news is particularly gruesome.

How much more weight do you have to lose? That could make a difference. I think that my BP is lower now that I am at the low end of normal than when it was toward the high end of normal.

frank619

09-21-2005, 10:26 PM

Well, Uff-Dah!, I would kill to get 114/65. I am 40, I run 6 miles a day and I have a high stress job, with unending work. So I am very jealous of your hermit lifestyle. If i could, I would live on a mountain top myself and grill meat all day long. Maybe this is part of the equation I am missing. No wonder I was the only one in the audience who wondered why Tom Hanks wanted to leave that island on "Castaway". But no, I can't quit my job just yet. I am writing a book, so maybe someone will pick it up and I will be rich soon. Ha hahahah...cough, cough, Ha. I still need to lose about 10 pounds to be at my ideal starving weight. I'm hoping that this will be the answer so that I don't have to go back on the diovan. But i know that with numbers in the 100s and 90s, my innards are not doing too well.

cdaus

09-21-2005, 10:54 PM

My BP has been hovering over the pre to hypertensive range (systole around 125-130 and diastole around 90 to 95) but I just can stand the thought of having to take BP meds on a daily basis. I am mainly scared of what they would do to me in the long run. I don't know which is worse. :)

Uff-Da!

09-21-2005, 11:10 PM

Ah yes, Frank. I'd forgotten that you had said earlier that you could just live on meat. Possibly that is one of the differences. I've become a near-vegetarian in the past couple of years. And I do think that eating all those vegetables is one of the things that made the difference between just reducing my BP meds and being able to get off them completely. Or it could be just the few extra pounds I lost in the same time period.

I do feel sorry for all of you who have to work in a stressful situation. It is too bad life has to be that way. I could handle stress better when I was young. In fact, I actually enjoyed it. But the older I got, the more difficult it was to handle. I'm just fortunate that I was able to quit working at age 52, even though I was many years from being able to draw my small pension. I may not be living high on the hog, but an almost stress-free life is worth a lot.

I think the one thing that kept my blood pressure at normal levels while I was still working is that I was always a skinny thing back then. Most of my working life my BMI was between 17.1 and 17.8. Too busy and too stressed to eat. On the couple of occasions that I got "fat," my BMI got up to 18.6. LOL! After I quit working, I gained 20 pounds within six months! I've since lost much of that on my near vegetarian diet, though, and seem to have hit a nice comfortable plateau which works for me now. I really do think that the extra ten pounds you say you have left to lose could probably make the difference for you, too.

Moxie75

09-22-2005, 02:03 PM

I've since lost much of that on my near vegetarian diet, though, and seem to have hit a nice comfortable plateau which works for me now. I really do think that the extra ten pounds you say you have left to lose could probably make the difference for you, too.[/QUOTE]

UffDa,

What does your diet consist of? I'm curious since I have been doing this for almost 3 weeks now and find it a very fullfilling way to eat. Today everyone ordered chinese food and I got steamed shrimp with veggies and black bean sauce on the side which I barely touched the sauce. How long have you been an almost vegetarian? Lisa

frank619

09-22-2005, 10:12 PM

CDaus, you sound exactly like me!. Keep me informed on how you come along. Those look exactly like my numbers.
Uff-Dah! , as usual, you are right. I need to get more veggies into my diet, but I am a meat-a-holic. And when i try to incorporate more veggies, I feel famished, i get moody and I start looking for bridges to jump off of. On the plus side, though, I have started eating more fruit.
Moxie75, chinese is the best food in the world. At Chinese restaurants is about the only time when I eat a good amount of veggies with my food. Sometimes though, they overdo it with the salt and I get spikes in my bp. And, the classical problem with chinese also happens to me, i get hungry again right after i pay the bill.

frank619

09-25-2005, 01:42 AM

After a pitcher of margaritas and alot of hectic action all day long today, my bp is 152/92. But am I worried? Heck no. I am starting to think that all of our worries are what causes our high blood pressure. Yes, diet has a lot to do with it; as does salt; as does genetics; as does weight; as does our job; ad infinitum--but in the end, it is just that people with hbp tend to worry about the world. We want to save the world, as if we can! We feel guilty about everything. Worse, we never forget the bad stuff that happens in our lives. So let's try a little experiment for a week or so. Don't worry about global warming, or the Bushes or Africa or hurricanes or or our job performance or who will put food on the table, or how we look to the opposite sex. And don't you dare think about the past or the future. Let's say to hades with everyone and everything! Let everyone find a way to save themselves and let us be calm for just a bit...

cartner

09-25-2005, 08:21 AM

Hello Frank,

Yes you are right, I always worry about everything and I mean EVERYTHING. I don't stop thinking even when I'm working, I don't stop thinking about the future and what will happen to ME and to everyone that I care for. I will stop thinking for a week and also I will not take my Blood Pressure reading in this week and listen to music when I can :cool: .

I started to believe that High BP is the attribute of the people who think. :confused:
Thanks,
Michael

Uff-Da!

09-26-2005, 06:13 PM

UffDa,

What does your diet consist of? I'm curious since I have been doing this for almost 3 weeks now and find it a very fullfilling way to eat. Today everyone ordered chinese food and I got steamed shrimp with veggies and black bean sauce on the side which I barely touched the sauce. How long have you been an almost vegetarian? LisaMy "near vegetarian" diet may be different than what you consider a near-vegetarian diet, as I do eat eggs and dairy products. In fact I consume quite a lot of them - averaging about seven eggs a week and three servings daily of non-fat yogurt, low-fat cottage cheese or skim milk. I do eat tuna, maybe one can a week or less, and chicken or turkey in small quantities. I might buy a package of chicken every month or two and make a big chicken-rice casserole and package it up in about ten packages for the freezer, so I'll eat it over a long period. Other than that, I concentrate heavily on big salads with things like spinach, zucchini, tomatoes, broccoli, cauliflower, onions, etc. almost always topped with garbanzo beans. I live in a cool summer area, so I also eat soups year-around and have them several times a week, especially bean, lentil and split pea soups. My grains for months were mainly oat bran drop biscuits or muffins, where I just substitute oat bran for half the flour and whole wheat flour for the rest in a traditional recipe. (Well, I also substitute canola oil for any shortening.) But recently I've been trying more recipes with Kashi and with wild rice mixtures.

It is hard to say how long I've been eating "near-vegetarian," as it has been a gradual change over more than 20 years. I only started the oat bran kick about three years ago. I did cut out eggs almost entirely for a couple of years, but missed them, so did an experiment starting in January this year. I found that, though my TC and LDL went up eating eggs, so did my HDL. The result was a risk ratio hardly different than when I went without eggs. And with a risk ratio of 2.7 to 2.8, I have a hard time believing that eggs are such a demon, even if my TC is around 239. Besides, I personally think that controlling my blood pressure and changing my lazy sedentary lifestyle will be far more important as far as cardiovascular risk than that level of cholesterol.

frank619

10-01-2005, 11:32 PM

Hello, y'all, I am back. My bp right now is 132/98, for those of you thinking about dumping the bp meds. But again, I am not worried. I actually had a good time with some friends right now, so I feel great and relaxed. So I am not going to stress over this bp stuff.
Michael, let me know how it goes with you. For me, not worrying about stuff has done wonders. People at work have asked me all week long if I am alright...I just laugh. I am refusing to worry about anything anymore. I know my parents are aged and sick, but I am doing my very best to help them. I know my students are poor and needy, but there is only so much I can do. I know that Bush is destroying the country, but I am just one liberal. So, i will place the blame on all of us, instead of just me and relax. Uff Dah, your diet is excellent. One day i will be able to be as disciplined as you. But for now, I need red meat. My bp right now is 132/98. Is it perfect , according to the AMA and my Doc? No. But, I feel alive. And that is something to be cherished. I will sing myself a song, "para consolarme", like Ruben Blades sings, to console myself, but in the end, I feel strong and alive...and that is worth it tonight.

cartner

10-02-2005, 07:24 AM

Hello Frank,

Tell me how old are you please?
I'm 23 and I want get off the meds but I'm scared man, my blood pressure is 150/100 to 140/90 without Meds, also without diet and supplements. I was on Ziac for 3 years but I didn't know that my lake of concentration, blurred vision, always feeling sad and confused are side effects of it so I had to give it up (8/1/2005) gradually to 8/15/2205. My doctor put me on Cozaar 50 mg which made me dizzy and sleepy and I stoped it after few days, again he put me on Atacand 8 mg which makes me so sleepy. I don't know many I should switch the doctor and try different Med like Norvasc or ACEs? I'm not sure what's the next step. Note that all those Meds controlled my blood pressure.

I tried to go off the meds for few days but I was so scared and I came back to Meds :(.
Maybe it's not the Meds which causes those symptoms??? maybe it's ME who causing it??
Frank I'm not sure but I will take off Atacand and all the other supplements (Zinc, C , B Complex, Magnesium, Omega 3 and Garlic) for 2 weeks and I will not take any readings and see what will be my feeling then I will take a reading and switch the doctor. Maybe I can do that
Thanks,
Michael

frank619

10-03-2005, 10:38 PM

Michael, I was terrified to go off the Diovan also. The doctors scared me half to death with their talk about heart attacks and strokes. And they're probably right that bad things can happen to you. Just in case, I started writing my will, said goodbye to my cats and even listened to Barry Manilow records. But, everyone is different. The thing that has helped me out the most, I think, is losing weight. Running and calorie counting have brought my bp down the most. The running also helps distract me from my job. I am 40 and my bp is still higher than I would like, but heart attacks do not run in my family. So talk to your doctor, let him know what you are up to and prepare yourself for a bumpy ride. Lately, I've really started to reassess my life's priorities too. I worry way too much and that is just not good for you. The Zoloft helped a little, but I really am not depressed; if anything, I am always happy. Oh, one thing that I do know will help you also is a good night's sleep. I take lunesta once in a while and it does wonders for my bp and outlook the next day. Still, i hate medicines and I don't trust the pharmaceuticals, so I have slowly dumped all meds. Good luck and let us know how it goes with you, whether you go off the meds or not.

cartner

10-04-2005, 12:35 PM

Hello Frank,

I'm off Atacand for the third day and i'm 135/95. I think it's not bad, me too heart attacks don't run in my family AT ALL. My father has HBP since he was young and he started Meds after 20 years. I'm scared that HBP effects my vision, do you know about that???
Onion, Garlic, Hibscus, Dom and salt restrection really are helping me. I run 1 hour daily and I also think that it lowers my blood pressure very well and make me sleep 9 hours at night :cool: . We will see :wave:
Thanks,
Michael

frank619

10-10-2005, 10:07 PM

Hello again. My bp right now is 131/91. At noon, it was 124/84. I think this is about as good as I can do unmedicated. So my Diovan experiment is over. I hope it's helped someone out there. But, I will continue running, calorie counting, losing weight and trying to get a good night's sleep. And of course, not worrying so much. Even about bp--like I've done this past week or so. I think it has helped me a lot to just not think about bp this week. Perhaps part of my problem is ********** (oh really? some of you might be asking yourselves). Yes,yes, it's sad but true. I tend to worry too much and think too much about myself, my problems, my supposed 'symptoms' and my pitiful little world. So enough is enough. There are plenty of things that are worth worrying about out there--or better yet--doing something about. So I signed on to the Morales 06 Campaign and have told my bosses to find another "go to guy". You don't know how good that felt. And I've started incinerating my hundreds of To Do Lists--which are really just leeches in disguise. This has helped me a lot. Good luck y'all and thanks for all your kind words of wisdom and support.

cartner

10-11-2005, 06:57 AM

Hello Frank,

Glad to hear that you stopped thinking for some time. I will tell you what happened with me so far. I have seen a new doctor who asked me to have T.S.H, T4, T3 and CBC. I found that I have Hyper Thyroid which causing my fast heart beats and of course High Blood Pressure, or at least effecting it.

I have done an Ultrasound and I will have Radio Active Iodine in a few days. Anyway, he put me on half Ziac 5 just to slow my heart beat until I begin THyroid Meds, you know what he said that "Soon the BP problem will be solved". These days I eat whatever I want whenever I want, I consume about 4,000 mg of Soduim and I don't even think that I have blood pressure. Yesterday I said "I will take only one reading just to know about it" and it was 130/90 :D and by the way I didn't practice from that time.

When I was on diet, exercise and Atacand 8 mg it was 130/80. So my point is that stress and thinking raise BP, Frank just try to foget that you have High BP for one week but in the same time stay on the diet and exercise. Believe me be happy as I'm now and see what will happen.

Stress is more dangrous than High BP itself :bouncing:
Keep us posted ok? :D
Thanks,
Michael

frank619

10-13-2005, 10:02 PM

Hello again. I am now doing another little experiment. My Reli-on machine is constantly telling me that my bp is too high. So I asked a nurse friend of mine to take my bp and then I checked it with my machine. Lo and behold, today at 3pm, my nurse numbers were 128/88 while the machine numbers were 148/101. Wow! Is Reli-on affiliated with any heart pharmaceutical out there? My nurse friend said that we'd have to do more readings to be sure that it was calibrated too high or that it could be the way the cuff is wrapped around your arm, but this was an eye opener. I'll keep y'all informed on this little experiment of mine. After this is over, I might just open that little gadget up and see if I can mess with its innards. You know, lower the calibration stuff. And if I can't, i am going to take my sledge hammer to it. This will definitely help my bp.

frank619

10-13-2005, 10:04 PM

Michael, goodness! WHAT were all those numbers you threw at us in your last post. It sounded like a scene from Star Trek. I've had other friends tell me to check my thyroid, too. Maybe that is what I need. How do you do it? Is it painful? Is it painful for our wallets?

hutch35

10-13-2005, 11:10 PM

Hi: I posted re Atenolol which my Cardiologist had me on for high BP 148/96. I think it may also be due to adenaline rushes from anxiety. But it is nothing specific..you know. I don't know what to do! The med is making m,e feel like crap. My BP is 100/78, but I don't feel roght. I am an athlete and ig I don't get better soon I am going to lose it. Any suggestions on how you lowered your blood pressure. Any anxiety how do you fdeal with it. It used to pass now I have felt "off" for about 2 months now. Don't want to be on meds. erik

hutch35

10-13-2005, 11:48 PM

I recently started taking atenolol for high BP 146/96. Dr not entirely sure what is causing. Good shape good diet. A bit of stress like everyone esle. I was getting th eworst dizzy spells and a "swirling" feeling. For the past two months I felt so "off" it is hard to really describe. The med has made me feel lethargic and don't even want to get out of bed. I am a very active person. The meds have droped my BP to 100/70, but I still feel dizzy and tired. Maybe it is bad anxiety. How do I know and waht to do now? I don't want to take meds to feel good.

cartner

10-14-2005, 07:44 AM

Hello Frank,

Actually, I didn't know that my symptoms more related to Thyroid than Blood Pressure. My new doctor asked me if I have done Thyroid tests and I told him that I have done it few years ago and it was just normal, he replied "No Michael I'm sure 100% that it wasn't normal, maybe it's false resutls unless your symptoms are new?" I told him that it's not new and I feel dizziness, sleepness, fatigue, confused, impaired concentration, fast heart rate 96 to 106 and even more and weight problems. Besides I feel that my mood is not stable

Anyway, he asked me to do the blood tests I have mentioned before and my T.S.H is less than 0.01 and my T4 is above the range but the others were normal. Today I'm going to the capital (Cairo, by the way I'm living in Egypt :D ) to see one of the best Endocrinologists in the country.

Yes Frank I have paid much in those Blood Tests and I don't have health insurance :eek: . But you know Frank I'm happy that I knew 2 things:
1- Stress really misses up your Blood Pressure
2- Thyroid disorder raises the Diastolic Blood Pressure over 90 and that's why my reading is always 90+.

Before I see my new doctor I said "Yes Michael you have a Depression" because most of the symtopms are similar with many other stuff.

if you feel my symptoms I suggest doing T.S.H and Free T4 at first then go from there. I just took another reading and guess what it was 130/90 :bouncing: .

Frank and I will keep you posted with my results.
Thanks,
Michael

cartner

10-14-2005, 07:56 AM

Hello hutch35,

Sorry to hear that you are having problems with your Blood Pressure. First off, you should know that there are many classes of Blood Pressure Meds and if your current Med is not working well for you then you can ask your doctor to put you on a different Med from a different group.

The biggest problem that I can see now is that most of us having other problems that causes High Blood Pressure or come with it like Stress and Anxiety and we always say that the symptoms are due to the Med we take for High BP. You know what Erik, I have tried Ziac, Cozaar and Atacand plus other Meds that I don't even remember and I think I have tried yours too few years ago. I had Dizziness, Sleepness, Confussion, Impaired Concentration and Fatgiue with all those Meds and here in those boards I knew that I have other problem that causing those weird symptoms and Now I know that I have Thyroid problem.

My point is that, if your Med is causing your some Side Effects ask your doctor to change it and if he didn't then switch the doc. You said that when you take it your BP drop too low? what's your dosage?
Thanks and good luck,
Michael

frank619

10-14-2005, 11:21 PM

Thanks, Michael, for the Info on your Thyroid tests. I am going to ask my doctor for one as soon as possible. I recently had my lipid panel done and am waiting for the results. So we will see how that comes out. My stress level has gone down a lot lately. Mainly because I have begun to tell people off a lot more naturally than i am used to. Usually i am very courteous even when people do not deserve it. Now, I am being more honest with my emotions and all that pent up anger, hatred, lust and disgust is oozing out of me. Needless to say, people at my work are avoiding me alot more now. Oh well. No more dumping their problems on me. I think this has a lot to do with my high bp going down a bit.
Hutch35, some quick advice: be very truthful with your doctor. And look for another one if you feel at any time that he is not taking excellent care of you. After all, this is our health we are talking about and some of these docs think they are God or something.. They rush you in and out of appointments, look at you like you are crazy if you have any questions or question their logic, forget your name, etc
And don't be afraid to change meds. The people on these boards have tons of experience with the stuff. Personally, I've dropped the meds and made some lifestyle changes. To tell you the truth, it doesn't seem to me like the docs know what is going on either. They follow certain guidelines that make sense, but still, you get the feeling that they do not know what is causing it or how to cure it. And worse and more darkly, sometimes you get the feeling that they are just trying to make a buck off of your misfortune. So they work on the symptoms only.
Lose weight, eat better and don't stress. Go to Mexico and hang out for a week or so. Or go to the beach and watch all the pretty girls. That ocean blue works wonders for me. And be honest about everything. This is bound to help your hbp.

cartner

10-15-2005, 02:17 PM

Hello Frank,

I doctor said that it's not a Thyroid problem and he wants me to do the Blood Tests again but he asked for other Blood Tests too like Corteson, Potassium and Sodium. He asked me to have a kidney Ultrasound and I just did that, it was normal. He said that I'm Hypo-something, sorry I don't remember. He said that I think TOO MUCH specially about the details and all my symptoms are related to this state:I don't know what to call it. I asked him "what I have to do?" and he replied "Just forget about those Symptoms and we will talk more when you get the results?". So I have to wait.

He put me on Norvasc because my BP was 140/90 at his office, I took it 9 hours ago and still 130/90 but I'm not feeling fatigue like before. Anyway, I have to wait and see what he will say.
Tell me about your results ok?
Thanks,
Michael

frank619

10-18-2005, 09:26 PM

I got my results back from my lipid panel and my doctor is ecstatic!!!! Total cholesterol 189; trigl 69; HDL 41 and LDL 134!!! Wow. I haven't been this happy since Bruce Babbit tried to run for President. My doc just said for me to keep doing what I have been doing. Which I am not sure he would have said, if he knew what it is that I've been doing, but...it seems to be working:: Running and drinking wine, telling people off and eating what I like but in less quantities and, of course, listening to Stevie Nicks sing "Sara". WOW!!!

Uff-Da!

10-19-2005, 10:39 AM

WOOHOO!

After that report, it wouldn't surprise me if your blood pressure doesn't come down a bit, too!

cartner

10-19-2005, 12:27 PM

:) so you are doing good? then keep what you are doing?
Thanks,
Michael

frank619

10-20-2005, 09:13 PM

Thanks UFFDAh! You have no idea how much I had been sweating those results. That 134 LDL is still high, but I can work on that. And the other numbers just took my breath away. Wow, is all I can say. In fact, I haven't taken my bp because, like I said in one of my last posts, I don't want to worry about it anymore. It really has done wonders for me. I just don't worry about anything anymore. Except for the Longhorns playing Tech this Saturday. Now, that worries me. I have to go back and continue my experiment on my machine and nurse numbers. Those comparisons will be coming soon. I hope it helps someone. I sometimes think those machines were purposely set on high. Call me paranoid, call me cynical, call me Al, but something's up...

frank619

10-26-2005, 08:40 PM

Okay, I am back, y'all. My bp today was 124/84 and considering that I was busy as heck and I've been taking allegra and Nyquil for this allergy/Bird Flu/SARS/1918 Flu Pandemic thing I just got, I thought it would be higher but it was okay... I am still compiling numbers from my nurse/machine comparison experiment and soon I will be able to post some kind of analysis. My nurse friend--who I will henceforth call "Pamela Anderson in a nurse outfit" or Pammie for short--says that it might just be that the cuff is too big for my arm. I noticed that when Pammie puts that stethoscope circle on me, it is right on the vein, while the cuff has that circle thingy higher up on the bicep. Could this be causing the higher numbers on the machine? Wouldn't it have been better engineering to have had a circle thingy hanging off the cuff that we could position it right on the vein like the doctors do? Does that make any sense? Should anyone make money off this idea just remember where you got it from, okay? Well, anyway, things are looking up. Finally.

frank619

10-28-2005, 11:55 PM

Well, it is Friday night and I really don't have any new medical information to post. I just wanted to let y'all know--those of you who read this board--that you are not alone. There are lots of us out here battling just like you. And we try all sorts of stuff to make our lives with hbp just a little bit better. And whether you are Mexican like me, or Anglo or Black or Asian, we all are united in our humanity. I'm sorry if I sound a little bit mushy right now, but after a couple of bottles of Barolo, anyone would. Once in a while, you gaze out across the darkness of night and wonder if anyone out there feels just like you do...

Uff-Da!

10-29-2005, 12:55 AM

Well, I've only downed about half a margarita so far (over a period of about two hours!), so I'm thinking pretty clearly. But so often when I get on these boards, I think what a wonderful thing it is that we can share our common concerns with people who we would probably never choose to be our friends if they lived in the same town just because our circumstances would likely be so different we'd have little occasion to even be in contact. It is particularly impressive when we learn that someone is from half a world away, and yep, they have the same concerns we do. It really makes one think, "Why can't everyone in this world just get along?"

So have you done any more comparison of your BP readings on your own machine with those of your nurse friend?

I just had a rather startling BP reading an hour or so ago. After I downed about half that margarita (without eating anything with it), I took my pressure and it was 169/79. That's the highest reading I've recorded in this little book, which I started about the middle of June. After taking a couple of deep breaths, it went down quite a bit, to 151/82. But that is still bad. I should know that if I drink, I have to eat, too. And I hadn't had an afternoon snack, either. So I went to fix myself some dinner. Came back just a few minutes ago, took my BP, and sure enough, it was back down to 119/71. I should know by now that if I want to keep my BP down, I have to just keep eating all day! :D Good thing I have a high metabolism and am not overweight! Really, though, my BP is best if I don't eat big meals, but just keep nibbling small amounts periodically all day.

BTW, my Reli-On monitor has been something of a hassle, too, but in a different way. I believe it reads accurately, as long as my pressure isn't too high. But on those few occasions my pressure is a bit elevated, like with a systolic of 150 or greater, half the time it just gives me an error message and I have to try again. I finally bought an Omron. The two seem to give comparable readings, but I don't have to fight the error messages with the Omron.

frank619

11-06-2005, 12:01 AM

Uff-Dah, I think that what separates us is what makes us so interesting to each other. If only we were taught better how to reach out to all, then maybe we could all feel like we were true citizens of the world. Which reminds me, on my first trip to Vegas years ago, I saw this White man with a baby, sitting on a bench in Caesar's Palace. And i wanted to talk to him so badly--about fatherhood, and what it was like to be a husband, did he feel up to the task, etc. It seemed like we were both so similar. But the guy looked like he was from Nebraska or Iowa or something. Very different from me. And I couldn't bring myself to start up a conversation. What a horrible world we have built when we can't even connect on such a level, huh?
WELL, anyway, I am still not ready to analyze my numbers. In fact, part of the problem is that I do not have enough of them. I have stopped worrying about my bp and this is seems to have helped a whole bunch. But I will get back to y'all with some numbers soon. That's a promise. I also have a Relion machine. And I am not sure I can RELION it just yet. Pammie sometimes is way off the numbers the machine gives me. So who to trust? I say Pammie. She is trained to do this and she is definitely prettier than my machine. In the meantime, I am continuing to lose weight, run and watch my food intake via calorie counting. Man, do I look good. Just kidding. I actually look bad. Way too skinny. But apparently, this is the way i am supposed to look if I want my bp to be low. Everybody thinks I am dieing. Is that the way you spell dieying? Anyway, So be it.

frank619

11-19-2005, 08:20 PM

Okay. I can't take it anymore. I have been taking numbers on my "machine vs. nurse" experiment for a couple of weeks now and I can safely conclude that it is going absolutely nowhere. I did manage to average out about 10 readings over the course of that time and my machine is, on average, 5/7 over the nurse's reading. The range was from 0--14/0--21 on the readings' differences. In one reading, my machine read 142/101 and Pammie read 128/86.....In other words, aaaaaaarrrrrgh!!! Tomorrow I am going to take my screwdrivers to its innards and see what we can see. I don't need it anymore anyway. And, just like when i was little, I am only responsible and capable of dismantling it. Putting it back together was never in my thoughts. Wish me luck.

Samsdad

11-20-2005, 04:57 PM

Frank,

Congrats on your success! Hmmmm....I took some bp meds that made me dizzy and nervous to the point where I discontinued them. To be honest I've probably had high bp for YEARS but you know they say ignorance is bliss! I never ONCE in my years thought about high bp, not once! Then my doc told me three weeks ago that my bp is high and you need to take meds. Now there are times where I actively worry about my bp, which I know isnt good.

You said you were taking a sleep aid that helped your bp. Truthfully, I get good nights sleep sometimes but not at all times. I get little panic attacks here and there regarding, you guessed it, my bp. I get up in the middle of the night now all the time.

Anyways, Ive lost ten pounds and am doing aerobic exercise now but I just got back from fred meyers and their machine said 170/112! Holy smokes! I'm wondering if its the sleeplessness and bouts of anxiety that are doing this to me.

Anyways, thought I'd confirm about the sleeplessness/anxiety and its effects on bp. Good luck to you!

frank619

11-20-2005, 09:35 PM

Thanks for the post, Samsdad. I tell you what!! I think one of the best things I ever did was go on zoloft. I never in my wildest dreams thought I was depressed or anxious or angry or anything. I am the happiest person you will ever want to meet. A little overworked, I just thought. Well, once on zoloft, the world stopped spinning as fast as i had actually gotten used to it doing. I had gotten so used to going one thousand miles an hour that I was oblivious. I hate medicines, and I dumped it as soon as I could. But those few months on it, let me see a different speed of thought that calmed me down a lot. I used to sleep pretty well, or so I thought, but I was always tired and groggy the next day regardless of how much I slept. I blamed the job. WEll, the Lunesta showed me what true, dead sleep was. Now, I take it once in a while when I can't sleep, and it does wonders for my bp the next day. I feel like I could take on the Miami Dolphins Cheerleaders single handedly. Talk to your doctor about it and dump them as soon as you recalibrate to a slower speed. Nothing is worth losing our health over. Hope things work out for you.

Samsdad

11-20-2005, 09:56 PM

Hey Frank,

Thanks for the advice. I see my doc on Friday and will ask her if my bp could be stressed related. I am a high school teacher in a public school system. I have good students but I do get a little anxious about my job from time to time. At night I'll often times wakeup and my mind will be racing, thinking about my lesson plan the next day. I gotta tell my brain to STOP! I do know that last night I had a fairly decent sleep (the lights out kind!) and have felt pretty good all day long. However the night before I went to bed late, tossed and turned (zero quality sleep!) and got up early. My body wasn't happy! I went to the mall with the girls and felt irritable, tired, and "off". Went home took a deep sleep nap for an hour and felt better. Problem is I wake up practically every night and although I do go back to bed I can't remember the last time I slept all night. So I may take that approach with me when I see the doc.

Uff-Da!

11-20-2005, 10:59 PM

Hey, Frank, good to hear from you again. And congrats on getting that pressure down. I hear you on that surprising feeling after taking Zoloft. My reaction when I first took it was, "Wow! So this is what it is like to feel normal!" I'd been a stressed out person basically all my life. It was really helpful in calming me down while I was caring for my husband 24/7, but I had to get off it because, together with my lack of sleep under the circumstances, I kept falling asleep at the wheel.

I hear what you're saying about the lack of sleep, Samwise. I'm a retired high school teacher, too. I finally had to quit teaching at age 52, as I simply couldn't go on getting only a couple of hours of sleep a night. At least now that I'm retired, if I can't get more than four or five hours of sleep at night (which happens about 350 days a year), I can usually take a long nap during the day. And when I don't, it really does influence my BP.

ACE28

11-21-2005, 01:03 PM

I've often wondered which form of magnesium is best, too. I found the following information useful, as discussed by Dr. Atkins in one of his books:

"Blood tests are the best way to determine your true need and track the effectiveness of supplements. Don't rely on standard blood serum measurements. They can be misleading and will often fail to detect a deficiency. A much better gauge is the mineral's concentration within red blood cells. I've found that the optimum dosage for magnesium-related health problems typically brings the red blood cell reading to a point slightly above the middle of the "normal" range. For most people this usually translates into a daily dosage of 400-1000mg."

"To reach the ideal point, some formulations work better than others. Magnesium oxide, the type most frequently found in mineral supplements, does easily raise the standard blood serum level, but other forms deliver the nutrient to tissues more successfully. My favorite is magnesium orotate, which, although once difficult to find, is now beginning to be found in health food stores. Other good forms are magnesium taurate, magnesium chloride, magnesium glycinate, and magnesium aspartate."

I take a Calcium, Magnesium and Zinc supplement (which are available in most stores). Calcium has also been shown to lower high blood pressure. The magnesium in my supplement has various forms of magnesium including Citrate and Aspartate. I figure, one of these should be able to be absorbed.
I find this supplement to have a calming effect on my heart rate. When I mentioned Magnesium to my doctor he responded " Magnesium is only effective if you have a deficiency, It is not necessary to be taking this supplement in my case". I guess he prefers me to stay on my blood pressure
meds. only.

cartner

11-21-2005, 01:09 PM

Uff-Da!

11-21-2005, 01:35 PM

Michael - In the US the tolerable upper intake level for supplemental magnesium is set at 350 mg for adults. That's in addition to food sources.

Source: http://www.cheapceus.com/DIETARY.htm

(Edit: the link above is to “Dietary Minerals,” a home study continuing education course for rehabilitation professionals. You'll find the information on magnesium on pages 34-46.)

So I'm assuming there is no time limit on that, so long as one isn't taking a larger dose.

ACE28

11-21-2005, 03:43 PM

This is what happened to me too, I found that Magnesium is very good for my fast heart rate and I take it although that my doctor told me that I don't need it but the problem is that I don't know for how long it's save to take it, do you know?
Thanks,
Michael

MICHAELLABIBAT,

I guess no one really knows. My only concerns are a mineral imbalance. Magnesium works closely with Calcium.This is an article I found. I think this article takes a more medical perspective on supplementation. Which is part of the reason doctors do not suggest supplementation. Besides, how do we really know if we are deficient?

" Magnesium: There are about 19 g of Mg in the average 70 kg adult body, of which approximately 65%

is found in bone and teeth, and the rest is distributed between the blood, body fluids, organs and other

tissue. Magnesium is involved in the synthesis of protein, and it is an important co-factor in more than

300 enzymatic reactions in the human body, many of which contribute to the production of energy, and

with cardiovascular functions. While calcium affects muscle contractions, magnesium balances that

effect and relaxes muscles. Most of magnesium is inside the cell, and while iron is the central atom in

hemoglobin, magnesium is the central core of the chlorophyll molecule in plant tissue.

Although the process of absorption for magnesium is similar to that of calcium, some people absorb

or retain much more magnesium than calcium (or more calcium than magnesium), so the commonly

suggested supplemental intake ratio of 2:1 for calcium and magnesium is really an arbitrary value that

can change significantly under various individual circumstances. (see also Acu-Cell "Mineral Ratios").

Low levels of magnesium can be a causative, contributing, or aggravating factor with kidney stones

(usual recommendations for prevention are 400mg of magnesium oxide and 50mg of Vitamin B6 daily),

high blood pressure, mitral valve prolapse (MVP), arrhythmia, tachycardia, coronary artery spasm and

other types of heart problems, premenstrual syndrome (PMS) or menstrual cramps, tetany (sustained
contractions, convulsions), (pre)eclampsia - particularly when too much iron and not enough folic acid
was taken during pregnancy, insomnia, anxieties, chronic constipation, hyperactivity - particularly with
children, and others (see bottom of page).

However, frequent and excessive use of magnesium sulfate (Epsom salt) or antacid remedies such

as Milk of Magnesia can eventually trigger a number of medical problems resulting from other minerals

such as calcium, sodium, iron, or potassium getting out of balance. This is more prevalent with kidney

diseases and may include severe fatigue, depression, low blood pressure, gastrointestinal problems,

dizziness, dehydration / dry skin, diarrhea, muscular / joint problems and cardiovascular diseases.

cartner

11-21-2005, 03:51 PM

ACE28

11-21-2005, 04:04 PM

Yes this is all good but I was talking about regulating heart rate, I really felt better on Magnesium plus I feel that it has done something to my immunity system. Now I don't catch cold as before and I feel that my BP response to Medication better than before too. I'm on Magnesium, Zinc, Vitamin C 500 mg for the last 3 monthes and I don't know if I have to stop any of them or not but I feel much more better.
Thanks
Michael

I also believe in vitamins and supplementation and feel better when I take certain vitamins and minerals. I take Niacin for my cholesterol and not only has Niacin helped my cholesterol numbers, I'm convinced it has also lowered my blood pressure significantly. My doctor doesn't believe in these supplements, but I always try and remember, MD's practice "MEDICINE" not
Vitamins. We have to be our own doctors to a degree.

cartner

11-21-2005, 04:24 PM

Yes this is very true, some doctors are talking that Vitamins and Minerals are NOTHING and if you take it will not make any difference but I believe that they do make big difference. But for long do I have to take Magnesium?? 6 monthes are enough?
Thanks,
Michael

Uff-Da!

11-21-2005, 05:46 PM

Seems to me that if you truly need it, you would likely continue to need it as long as you weren't getting enough through your diet. Just like our daily requirements for vitamins or minerals in our diet. Just because you got your requirement for vitamin C from diet, for example, for six months, wouldn't mean that you could then quit eating foods containing vitamin C.

If you start getting diarrhea from the supplements, though, you'll know for sure you are getting too much. And the total you get in "supplements" would need to include that in all OTC medications, not just magnesium mineral pills.

I don't think you're really going to get a good answer to your question, Michael, as like the quote ACE gave, what a person really needs boils down to individual differences.

frank619

12-01-2005, 12:06 AM

Hello, y'all. I am back. Wooah, what is all this stuff about supplements??? For a second there, I thought I had gotten on somebody else's string. From my perspective, supplements haven't done much for me. I mean, really, the only thing that has worked to lower my bp is losing weight through calorie counting and exercise. So, I spent a lot of money on those vitamins and minerals and anti-oxidants and blah blah blah, believe me. And they just did nothing. So take my advice and save yourself some money. Buy some sneakers with the money and go walk or jog. And just eat one fruit a day, some low fat milk once a day and cut back on your portions. That is what works. Honestly.
Anyway, I could not bring myself to destroy my Relion machine. I figured I will hold on to it, until after I am married. Most people usually gain weight once they are married and I am really close to tieing the noose. Being Mexican, I am going to double the amount of weight you are supposed to gain because Mexican food tastes too good to be good for you so I might need that machine six months from now. Either way, my bp is 122/80 right now and this is after running 6 miles. Usually it is higher after I exercise. Y'all should see me...Ally McBeal looks overweight to me now.

cartner

12-01-2005, 05:38 AM

Hello Frank,

Good to hear that you are doing well with your blood pressure. I want ask you about something, I remember that you were on Diovan? what side effects you got from this medication? I'm on Atacand 8 mg and I feel sleepy and tired all the day, some people said that this feeling MAY go away after a couple of weeks or so.
Thanks,
Michael

frank619

12-04-2005, 08:15 PM

The only side effects I remember with diovan were that I had a lower sexual drive and sleepiness and tiredness, just like you. Now, that could have been because of my hbp. My doctor said that it was impossible, since lowered libido was not one of the possible side effects, but there it is.
Once in a while, now that I think about it, I did have mild cases of dizziness when I would get up all of a sudden from bed or my desk. All of that has stopped since I stopped taking the stuff. I wish that one could find my prior string since all that info is in there. I do remember, though, that I always had this strange feeling that the diovan was not really doing anything for me. I can't explain it really, but it always seemed like with or without it, my bp would have been the same. Once I left the diovan, my bp did not spike or anything. The results of leaving the diovan are at the beginning of this string. Good luck

cartner

12-04-2005, 08:23 PM

Frank,

For how long did you take Diovan? I heard that sleepiness and tiredness go away after a couple of weeks, so I want know what do you think.

Atacand doing good for my BP but I can't live my life with those side effects. I don't know what else I can do. I have depression too but I don't take any Med yet, I'm waiting for meet a doctor but don't know which one to go for yet.

So do you think that those side effects will disappear after 2 weeks or so?
Thanks,
Michael

Sideem

12-06-2005, 08:16 PM

Hey Frank...it's really good to hear your updates. Thanks for sharing.

frank619

12-08-2005, 09:25 PM

Sideem, sharing has helped me too, believe me. And reading the posts on these boards has given me a ton of info that has helped me a lot.

Michael, I was on diovan for about 5 years. The side effects came and went. But to be fair to the diovan, it did have the fewest side effects of any of the meds the docs put me on.
What is funny is that the doctors wanted me on the meds permanently and seemed really confident that this was the only way I was ever going to survive. But after losing weight, boom, my bp and cholesterol numbers went down.
You know, I got a vision about this a while ago--could it be that when we are too big for our size, our veins act like rivers of fast water tearing at the veins, as the heart pumps out blood harder to reach the edges of our skin? So the river bottoms and edges get carved out, needing cholesterol to patch things up? I've always heard that cholesterol is manufactured by the body anyway, so it must serve some kind of good purpose--maybe it's just a 'smoother' of some kind. So we have to slow our lives down and resize our bodies to keep our own heart from tearing us apart? You know what I mean? Is that insightful or is that insightful? My bp right now is 128/80, for those of you keeping track of my updates since i left the diovan.

cartner

12-08-2005, 09:40 PM

I see Frank, first I'm very happy that you can manage your blood pressure without Meds :). I stopped Atacand because I hated this med and now i'm on Cardizim SR 90mg twice daily which I think the best I have been on, I will wait 1 month to confirm that :) lol
Thanks,
Michael

frank619

12-14-2005, 10:32 PM

Hey, I have some strange numbers to report to y'all. Yesterday, my bp numbers were 98/84 !!! Is this weird or what? My heart, in fact, felt like it was running at a lower gear--this is the only way to explain it. Like, when I tried to run, it wouldn't get pumping, or something like that. Or i could feel it pumping but struggling with it...I really don't know how to explain it. Today, the numbers are 129/86, so i guess i am back to normal. But, boy was that weird. I will probably go back to my doc and ask him to hear my heartbeat and see if it sounds weird??? Pammie asked me if I was dehydrated, but told me my heartbeat sounded strong. She then told me to go to my doctor. But I am afraid they're going to run all those tests again, you know, the stress test, and x-ray tests and so on and again find nothing. But now that my bp and cholesterol numbers are down, maybe they will find something else has been wrong with me all along. Gees, if it's not one thing, it's another...

Sideem

12-15-2005, 02:20 PM

Wow...98/84..that's interesting. My lowest (at a doctor's office no less) was 100/70. I thought that was a mistake. But nonetheless I was happy with that reading.

Last night for the first time in a couple weeks, my BP started skyrocketing. It was 153/92. I felt like I needed to lie down and my chest tightened a bit. Prior days my bp was stablizing in the 130s/80s range. I did have an out of town visitor last Saturday/Tuesday and ate a lot more unhealthy fast food than I normally do. So I don't know if that had an effect. I'm trying to get back to my Subway for lunch, salad for dinner routine. I remember Uff-Da mentioning she used cabbage as her base as opposed to lettuce. Oddly enough I think that may have helped me. We'll see, I'm going back on it tonight.

Currently I'm not on any meds and am trying to stay that way.

frank619

12-16-2005, 10:22 PM

Well, if Uff-Dah recommends cabbage, she is probably right. And stay away from visitors and fast food--that is poison. Visitors aren't too good for you, either. I think those of us on this board are a little set in our ways, and any little deviation from our pathways, throws us off. Maybe I am wrong, but now that I see how I respond to different stresses in my life, I realize I have to change my whole attitude towards almost everything. And I thought I was happy. I was just pretending. We have to stop pretending. My 98/84 was quite a shock to me too. But, I reviewed my food intake notes for that week and noticed that I had eaten a high amount of pecans and chocolate. Could that have done it? I even had pimples on my face and I am not young enought to still have pimples, I don't think. My heart still feels like it is in a lower gear, but I jump start it by going jogging anyway.

Sideem

12-18-2005, 02:51 PM

Heh...actually this was a good visitor. I felt so good during those few days. The night my BP skyrocketed I do remember I ate a leftover slice of Giardanno's (One of Chicago's finest pizzerias) deep dish with pepperoni, sausage (which I normally don't eat but my visitor likes it...*LOL*), and canadian bacon (another meat I don't normally eat...*LOL*). Then I made the mistake of eating a pint of Haagen Daaz Egg Nog ice-cream. That combo may have been what did it...who knows...*LOL*.

But I agree that it is best to try not to deviate too mcuh from my routine. December, with all the holiday parties and family gatherings, is a hard month to do that, though...:-)

frank619

12-22-2005, 12:20 AM

Sideem, deep dish pizza and egg nog!! You are walking a fine line, my friend. But it's good to do that once in a while. It reminds us that we are really just humananimals. And it makes us happy. For me, it is barbecuing fresh meat on the grill outside and drinking beer. I don't even have to eat the meat. Just the smell makes me want to carry a club around and grunt at people.
Update on my bp, it is 126/82. So, nothing new to report. December is a HORRIBLE month for dieting so we will see how badly my body does after the 4th... Well, anyway, happy holidays everyone.

Sideem

12-22-2005, 01:53 PM

Yeah..and I'm going to visit family tomorrow for the holidays and staying until the 28th. So I know I'll be eating a lot of rich foods...*LOL*.

Happy Holidays everyone!

frank619

12-30-2005, 01:58 AM

Since I know some of y'all have been keeping up with my reports after i dropped the diovan, I have Something else to report. I have had this pain on the left side of my chest. Almost right in the middle of my chest but a little to the left of center. all day and part of yesterday. It is a mild, throbbing pain like a muscle hurts after it has been worked out. I am not that worried yet but maybe I should be. I remember it feeling like pin pricks a few days ago. I know, I know--i should go to the emergency room and have all kinds of tests run, but I really do not want to get into that mode again. After all the dieting and meds I have been on, to finally lower my bp, cholesterol and weight, and then have something bad happen would be WAY too much for my cynical side to handle. But then again, my sarcastic side would have a hell of a time with that one. Sorry, i don't mean to be irresponsible, and I dont' want to panic anyone--especially myself--but sometimes it seems like I run to the doctor every time I have a little hurt here and there. Instead of admitting that i am just getting old and my body is just hurting because that is a natural thing for it to do. Let me know if anyone out there has experienced this before. And don't worry--I am pretty sure it is not that dangerous. I am not feeling numb on that side or anything like that, it is just a slow, dull, very mild, numb pain. I can tell it is there, but it is not worrying me.

Sideem

12-30-2005, 11:31 AM

I think you're doing the right thing Frank. I'm sorry to hear the recent development but I don't think it's life threatening either.

If I had to run to emergency everytime I felt some pain in that area, I would be broker than a person whose only asset was a penny with a hole in it.

Did you measure your BP during that time?

lane413

12-31-2005, 03:56 PM

Frank age doesn't have to mean pain. My dad is 62 yrs young and he still does construction work. He isn't sick and doesn't complain about pain. I dont know how old you are, but maybe your pain isn't age related. Maybe you should see your doctor and not call him.

Not to scare you, but my mom's first heart attack was pain in her knee. Yes her knee. She went to an urgent care clinic for knee pain and was trucked to the hospital's ER for heart attack. Pain is a way to tell us something is wrong. GO TO THE DOCTOR!

frank619

01-03-2006, 09:05 PM

Thanks for the concern Lane413, but i think Sideem is right. i mean, we are getting old and it is only natural for things to break down. I am happy for your dad, but he seems to me to be the exception. Every old person I know has little to talk about except illnesses and their daily complaints about rising drug costs. But don't worry i am going to the doctor on Thursday to have him hear my heart and I will tell him about the weird pains I am getting. It is hard to describe them except as if I am being pricked by a needle. I just don't want another medicine to be shoved down my throat and have a new set of worries with the side effects. Could it have been the stress of the holidays? Or could it be caffeine that is causing it? Or maybe the Texas/USC game tomorrow? Hook 'em Horns, baby!!! Ouch, ouch, my heart. I need to calm down a bit here.

frank619

01-05-2006, 09:31 PM

Sideem

01-06-2006, 01:50 PM

Hey Frank...nice reading. I took a reading at 9:30PM last night and got one of my lowest ones of the evening. 125/80. I almost had a heart attack...kidding...*LOL*. I think the GERD board may have some info on Prevacid usage and how it affects some of the users.

CASSIEBEL

01-07-2006, 11:57 PM

Okay. I went to the doctor today and he said it was probably some gastrointestinal thing. So Prevacid for a week to rule that out before we take another ekg. he said my heart sounded fine. But the Longhorns won yesterday so my heart is happy. My bp was 117/72 at the doctor's office!! This is amazing, since usually I have white coat. Has anyone out there taken prevacid before? anything i should know?

Hi Frank,
I have taken Prevacid for a couple of years. It's a very kind drug (no side effects At least for me) and it does it's job extremely well.

I,m a proud Texan these days too!
Cass :bouncing:

lane413

01-08-2006, 05:51 PM

My mother took prevacid for two or three yrs and it caused her stomach to hurt. My dad takes prevacid and he doesn't have any problems. My mom is too sensitive to most drug. My dad is normal.

So if you're a normal guy, you should be fine, but if like my mom you're sensitive to drugs, you'll have problems. Good luck!

frank619

01-12-2006, 07:33 PM

Okay, the prevacid came and went for a week and nada. I am still feeling those little pinpricks on my heart. Thanks for the info on prevacid. Hey, have y'all ever heard that it might be too little acid causing the pains in our stomach. Yesterday, I ate a lemon to see if that worked and it kind of settled my stomach but my little heart pains are still there. So it is probably not gastrointestinal. Oh well, time for another ekg test and god knows what else--I especially hate that one where they stick you with glow goo and then put you in a big tube and you can't move for five months. Wish me luck. Oh, and by the way, my older friends that read this board got mad at me for saying old people complain all the time. Okay, okay, I take it all back. Old people rule.

frank619

01-22-2006, 10:56 PM

Hello guys. I am back with some news. The pinpricks on my chest went away. And, after some more blood work (which showed my numbers are still pretty good even after all the Holidays' anti-dieting) and a chest x-ray, which showed that I had had bronchitis, I am still baffled. My doc seems to think it was some kind of muscle tear or possibly the bronchitis. But I don't remember ever having any kind of bronchial anything...though I did carry a keg to one of our UT/USC parties and shouted myself hoarse. Besides i had had these strange little sensations since before the Holidays. I don't know. All I know is that they are gone and now I need to get back to my healthy exercise and food routine. I gained 4 pounds over the holidays. All bad ones.
By the way, I am thinking about starting another thread, since the administrators think this one is getting kind of long. But I don't know. I mean, do my updates help anyone out there anymore? I think there really is nothing else to report. My weight was the culprit as far as I am concerned. The docs took me off of pizza and coffee and soda and burgers and salt, and so on, and put me on tons of meds in their attempts to find a cure, but once the weight was off, the bp went down. Maybe I shouldn't have been so hard on the docs. That is one thing I will say. And maybe I am a bit paranoid and prone to conspiracy theories. Maybe it was that simple for me--a lifestyle change that lowered my weight and started me exercising again. So, I will leave it up to y'all---my avid readers... Do I continue with my updates or do I ride off into the web blue yonder? Can't wait to hear from you. But be nice.

gretcheniam

01-23-2006, 02:43 AM

Hello Frank619,

I take Diovan. I missed why you wanted to get off it? Bad side effects?

Sideem

01-23-2006, 02:25 PM

Please continue. I appreciate the updates. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to start a new thread..:-)

domn8r

01-23-2006, 04:09 PM

Frank, how's it going? I've been following your post and it's great. Keep it up.

domn8r

01-23-2006, 04:27 PM

Frank, how's it going? I've been following your post and it's great. Keep it up.

So how high was your beginning cholesterol?

frank619

01-29-2006, 09:39 PM

Gretcheniam--my main reason for getting off the diovan was just suspicion. I originally got on it because of chest pains which went away with Zantac. I sometimes thought they were more like voodoo. The doctors rushed me into meds and I always had a strange feeling that I was getting railroaded. It was all undiagnosed hbp. And they would limit my intake of all kinds of foods which really did nothing to lower my bp. And they said it would be higher without the meds and that I could expect a stroke if I went off of them. well, I can be scared for a while, but not for long. So I tried various diets, and vitamins, etc , did not help at all. Then I decided to dump most of my doctors (especially the ones who would not listen to me--which was almost all of them) and I stayed with my general practitioner--who tried my little experiment that started this thread and voila. here I am. 27 pounds lighter and much less stressed out.
Domn8r--my highest total cholesterol was in the 250 range. And this number came up after they put me on meds. So this just made me very suspicious. As it is, I am very suspicious of the medical field--money for health is just asking for philosophical questions--so now it is in the 206 range without meds. Then with that VIOXX and STatins scares, well, that just about did it for me...
Okay, guys, this is it for me. Thanks for all your help with everything. Your words of encouragement and your experience helped me out alot. I hope I helped some of you out there also. Lose weight, don't stress and exercise. Those were my magic bullets. In the end, that is all there is to say. Besides, this thread is way too long. My journey has come to an end.

Sideem

01-31-2006, 08:25 PM

No. The journey is continuing. I wish you well in it. As said before, your story is definitely inspiring.

lizabug

02-22-2006, 12:54 PM

Frankk619
I was reading your post and saw that you take a supplement that has fisho oil, potassium, and garlic in it. Could you tell me the brand?

Thanks
Liz

IMNRVUS

02-24-2006, 12:24 PM

:blob_fire :blob_fire :blob_fire

IMNRVUS

02-24-2006, 04:33 PM

:blob_fire :blob_fire :blob_fire